distressing thought. so you have to defend against that as well. >> those who were -- perhaps the pakistan intelligence agencies, they clearly failed -- >> yes, but the pakistani people, they own that, that's their intelligence, their government, their military was down the road. would would feel that way as well. we didn't make the cut but you came in and invaded and took him? >> now, is there any rational demonstration of evidence that could persuade the crazies? are they beyond the pale? they believe ufos come down every night, we never really went to the moon? >> i think there's a big difference between ufos are coming down at night and doubting something that has bigger kernels of potential truth. a man who's been hiding for ten years, why did it take us so long? i don't think this is as far out as, boy, you're really crazy. however, i do think paranoia always comes out of seeds and kernels of truths.