no doubt they've been shielding bin laden through their intelligence agencies? >> that's correct. >> here's the question, though, you want to eliminate this financial aid, i understand, at a visceral level, of course you want to do that. but if we do that, does that not eliminate whatever leverage we might have to bring them towards us -- >> just the opposite. >> explain. >> they think we're fools, and we are fools! we're fools for giving somebody who hates our way of life and has been doing so many things to put us in jeopardy and to give them money. they won't respect anybody like that. and we will be in worse danger by having a lack of respect from these people, than if we say, okay, you've proven yourself, you're our enemy, we're going to make friends with india. >> let me add one other factor, which actually cuts in your favor. there was a meeting on april 16, we know about this from news reports that were pretty detailed between the prime minister of pakistan, president karzai of afghanistan, who supposedly the pakistani prime minister said, get rid of the united states, we're kicking out the cia, let's begin to lean towards china, they are the future. now, but again, if we --
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