Transcripts For CSPAN3 Senate Hearing On Pandemic Federal Teleworking 20240711

Learned and what to better improve the process. Its been a decade since the last significant piece of the telework legislation, the telework enhancement act of 2010 and it set the baseline standards for them to follow with telework and over the last ten years, weve seen great advances in technology and workforce expectations and the increase in cybersecurity threats. So many changes in the world it makes sense to take a close look at the telework policies and strategies than the federal workforce. The current pandemic has acted as a magnifying glass. This Committee Held a hearing in july and during the hearing we were able to gather valuable information to what theyve done to support the Remote Workforce and we were able to draw Lessons Learned with how they recalibrate the telework strategies and policies. During that hearing we gained insight into what the current private workforce is demanding. This, coupled with the environmental challenges we now face will help us create remote work policies that keep the federal work with highly qualified individuals. Since early march, federal agencies have been forced to work with remote Performance Management on a massive scale. The pandemic has been extremely disruptive to all of our lives and im hopeful that we can shine the light on telework processes and find longterm solutions that provide real value for federal agencies and their employees. As i stated in the first hearing there are very important telework questions that i believe need clarity on in order for us to clear a path forward for the federal workforce. For example, how do we best prepare employees so that during a future disaster or pandemic they can seamlessly transition into a federal workforce policy. How do we affect trained managers of remote workers. What tasks could be permanently telework dhld open up opportunities to hire anyone anywhere in the country. And i want to make sure that cybersecurity threat overnight and i. It Infrastructure Improvements are with conversations. Today, i look forward to hearing from the front line. Ive heard about agencies overcoming a mostly Remote Workforce, and today we have the opportunity to hear from the source. I hope we can use it to create a more flexible and employ coettive workforce. I do want to thank this panel for taking the time away from the very busy schedules and youve been a part of this testimony, as well. We appreciate opportunity to pick your brain and to hear what the agencies have done and what experience you have gained in the process. For anyone watching this hearing, this is what were affectionately calling a hybrid hearing with some individuals here in the room, though its very, very few, four of our witnesses that will testify in this hearing. Two of them are live. Two of them are remote. Most of the individuals that are here will be remote for this hearing and everyone is very well spaced during this hearing as well to maintain social distancing in that time period. So were being a at the present timive to all of those basic elements through this, but i do want us to get this information out and its important that we get it on the ridiculouecord, a. With that i would like to recognize the Ranking Member and shes joining us remotely. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman for holding this important hearing and as this is the last subcommittee hearing of the year i want to thank you for your leadership throughout this congress. It has been an absolute pleasure to work with you. I do want to submit a statement for the record from the federation of government employees. I appreciate our witnesses joining us today. I had hoped all of our witnesses would have agreed to join the hearing remotely because i think that would be a great message to show the committee and the country as our covid numbers are increasing across the country and demonstrate our ability to work we moatremotely and to ada the hearing world. It is important for a number of reasons and the key one is to dispel the myth that telework means decross productivity and my office has been working completely virtual since march and theres been no disruption in our work. Every day our team is working to help arizonans and we found it can improve productivity and improve and claim morale to care for their kids and loved ones. So the key is to develop an effective telework strategy so that workers have the tools they need and everyone in the organization understands their policies and goals. I look forward to our conversation today on those topics and joining about the trials, and what operational challenges remain. It is also important to know the risks of returning our federal workforce for the office too soon. According more than 100,000 federal employees nationwide have tested positive for covid. Many states have seen alarming rises in covid cases recently. This week in arizona, the percent of positive covid tests has reached the highest level in three months and the number of arizona ns hospitalized for covid was 70 higher than it was on november 1st. While most employees continue to work from home, there are some positions such as agens and officers at the border, our postal workers and va staff who cannot do so. So to protect those individuals its critical that we allow telework to minimize the number of people in federal buildings. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Thank you. At this time i want to proceed with testimony from our witnesses. Let me do a quick introduction of the four of them. Joining us remotely is Michelle Rosenberg and the Strategic Issues team where she is on capital issues and she served for over 20 years on gaos tenured team. Shes been recognized with Health Care Team awards including two Meritorious Service awards and shell be testifying first and joining us remotely. Mr. Keith washington is with the u. S. Department of troilgz. Has been with the Department Since 1991 and in his current position he provides leadership and oversight in the areas of Human Resources, security, audit relations, acquisitions and grants and transportation and facilities and space management. Maybe you can lead nasa for us next since we need a new director for nasa since youre doing management. What do you think . Okay. Well talk about that. Prior to this role, he was the director of the department was resource management. Sydney rose is also here. Shes the chief Human Capital officer which we affectionately call in d. C. The chico. She has been in federal service and all of them in Human Resources occupations. She is responsible for the Human Capital approximately see programs and is key adviser to the department of leadership on employment and engagement efforts and she joined the u. S. Department of labor and has previously served with the bureau of labor statistics and the office of personalel management. Thank you for being here. Also joining us remotely is mr. Jim boreland and the Deputy Commissioner and the Information Officer for i. T. Operations in the Social Security administration. He leads the aging computer infrastructure and acted as Deputy Commissioner, for Social Securitys office of disability and adjudication and review. Prior to joining the Social Security administration he served in analytical, technical and leadership positions over 15 years with the u. S. Departments of agriculture and education here in washington, d. C. I want to thank all four of you for your preparation of being here and it is the custom of the Sub Committee to swear in all witnesses that appear before us. So if i can ask you to please stand and raise your right hand. Yes, even remotely. Sorry about that. Ill get a good shot of your tie there, jim. Thats all right. Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing, but the truth so help you god . I do. Let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative. We are using a timing system even with the folks joining us remotely and they should be able to see the timer, as well as we go through the process and well stick as close to that to make sure we give as much time as possible for questions and conversations as we go through this in the process. With that, i would recognize ms. Rosenberg for your opening statement. Chairman lang fod and members of the subcommittee, i am here to discuss telework. It offers benefits to the federal agencies and federal workforce. It can help with recruitment and retention of employees and reduce the need for Costly Office space and as the Ranking Member mentioned provide the opportunity to better balance work and family demands. Telework is a tool that agencies can and have used to accomplish their mission during periods of disruption. As you know, during the current covid19 pandemic, use of telework has allowed federal employees to work remotely in order to sustain Agency Operations and serve the American Public. Gao had key practices in telework, literature and guidelines and the federal agencies should implement as part of a successful Telework Program. Regular attention to the key practices can help to Foster Program growth and remove barriers to telework participation. My written statement was all of the key practices we identified and this afternoon i will highlight three. First, telework agreements. To facilitate telework, agencies should have telework agreements that outline the agreed upon Work Arrangements between Agency Managers and teleworking employees. The telework enhancement act of 2010 requires agencies to have such written agreements. However, in 2017 we reported that selected agencies did not require regular reviews or document the reviews of the telework agreements. Given the likelihood of changes and work responsibilities and employees schedules over time its important for agencies to regularly review their telework agreements to ensure that they reflect and support their Current Business sneads in addition, if telework agreements are not uptodate, agencies may be using inaccurate telework data when making decisions such as Space Planning and technology investments. The second key practice i will highlight is training. Something senator langford mentioned. Telework involves a different way of working as well as supervising employees. As such, agencies are required to provide training to eligible employees and to managers of teleworkers. Such training should cover agencies telework policies and provide an orientation to telework and focus on Telework Program activities including the i. T. Applications used while teleworking and Performance Management. Our 2017 review of selected agencys Telework Programs found that managers were generally not required to complete telework training before approving the telework agreements. As a result, managers may have been approving or denying requests to telework before they fully understood the agencys telework policies and goals. The third key practice i will mention is Program Evaluation. Its important for agencies to develop Program Evaluation tools. This should include a tracking system that can help to accurately determine the status of telework implementation at the agencies. Agencies should use the evaluation tools to establish the program and their progress in achieving program goals. Agencies should then develop an action plan to guide any needed changes. Assessments of the costs and benefits including cost savings of agencys Telework Programs can help Decision Makers in determining the overall effects and value of telework. However, our past work found that selected agency his little data to support the benefits or costs associated with their Telework Programs. Opm has indicated that agencies have improved in their ability to track cost savings, but not all agencies are reporting cost savings information in response to the opm annual data work. In con clushgs the key practices geo has identified several of which are required by statute provide a road map for federal agencies to successfully implement their Telework Programs. However, weve previously found that agencies face challenges related to implementing Telework Programs that align with the key practices. The challenges agencies face provide a valuable learning opportunity as you look to expand and modify federal Telework Programs. Improving the mechanics of Telework Programs can have benefits to agency, federal employees and the public. This concludes my prepared remarks. I am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Mr. Washington . Chairman langford, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss federal telework during the covid19 Public Health emergency on behalf of the u. S. Department of transportation. I am keeg washingtith washingto been with the department for 29 years. The departments longstanding support and encouragement for telework across the widespread operations proved its value and stability when we quickly and seamlessly converted headquarters and Field Operations in midmarch to maximum telework to meet the covid19 Public Health emergency. Telework has been a critical flexibility that enables d. O. T. Employees to ensure america has the safest, most efficient and modern Transportation System in the world. It boosts our economic productivity and Global Competitiveness and enhances the quality of life in both rural and urban communities. Telework allows the department to achieve important performance goals and improve the departments capability to support homeland and National Security requirements while supplying the Work Life Balance outcomes. In 2013, well before the onset of covid19 d. O. T. Implemented an agency wide policy in accordance, and the policy encourages the use of telework and includes noting the eligibility status. That approximately so remains in effect today. G. G. And consistent operations. To ensure the vitality of d. O. T. s Telework Program, d. O. T. Conducts telework exercises to give employees and managers opportunities to practice working remotely and to test the Information Technology capacity to support telework. Those efforts resulted in additional investments in emerging technologies and innovation including Virtual Private Networks and Virtual Desktop infrastructure. D. O. T. s transition to maximum telework was virtually seamless following the onset of the covid19 Public Health emergency because of advanced preparations across d. O. T. , monthly teleworkers increased from 14,000 in february to 30,000 in march without disruption to the agencys mission on network. Under normal circumstances and typically under half of the d. O. T. Total workforce is telework eligible and about a total on average. Since the onset of the covid19 Health Emergency, upwards of 60 of the total workforce, teleworks monthly. The remaining positions are in positions that require the physical presence to perform their core responsibilities such as air Traffic Controllers in the federal aviation administration, line handlers in the st. Lawence seaway in the maritime administration. Perhaps, one of the most viable Lessons Learned was to use a considerable degree of flexibility when leveraging the telework policy, work scheduling procedures and the flexibilities and authorities. As a result, some offices are reviewing plans to reduce their Office Footprint by eliminating lease space and maximizing work and telework once the covid19 Public Health emergency ends. The maximum telework environment has provided d. O. T. With the opportunity to test and implement relatively new and various methods of communicating with both large and small groups. Maximum telework also presented ongoing challenges including adjusting to new Team Dynamics and limited access to Office Supplies and equipments and connectivity issues for some. Several months into this new reality thousands of our employees are now teleworking full time and managers are experiencing how their organizations can function successfully under these conditions providing Vital Information for future decisions about our operations. The department has been successful at implementing maximum telework. D. O. T. Has a wide array of workforce missions and has maintained a consistent level of productivity during the Health Emergency. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss federal telework during the covid Public Health emergency on behalf of the department of transportation i am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Chairman rose . Senator langford, members for arc louing me to testify today. Covid19 was declared a pandemic by the world health organization. Op march 20, 2020, the United States declared the covid outbreak a National Emergency and by midmarch 2020 the u. S. Department of labor earned a maximum telework posture due to the Global Pandemic Health Emergency. As it became clear to us that covid19s impact would require significant modifications to the departments operations, the office of Human Resources had support the department for the telework posture and modifying internal guidance as necessary and it had hr guidance and increased technical employees and managers and responded to hundreds of inquiries on a full range of Human Resources issues that included pay, leave, benefits, staffing, telework, Work Schedules and other workplace flexibilities. Additionally, dol rapidly developed guidance with Emergency Paid Sick leave with the Coronavirus Response act to ensure that our employees who were unable to work or telework due to qualifying covid19 related reasons as outlined in the regulations are aware of their entitlements under the law. In accordance to opm pandemic guidance, the department allowed eligible employees to telework to the maximum extent possible in order to maintain operations as close to normal as possible while ensuring our employee safety. Prior toen during the pandemic, telework eligibility at the Department Requires that an employees duties be suitable in whole or in part for performance at a telework site and that individual employees meet the additional criteria required by the telework enhancement act, departmental policy and our applicable collective bargaining agreements. Further, individual participation is subject to supervisory approval based on factors such as the Business Needs of the office, the cost of an arrangement and the availability of technology and equipment required to support the duties of the position. Dols recent implementation of enterprise Wide Shared Services for Human Resources and Information Technology supported and facilitated the departments ability to quickly adapt to a posture of more remote work in response to the pandemic. More centralized hr allowed dol to decisively expand the use of telework during the declared pandemic and implement any necessary hr policy changes to support those shifts and Work Arrangements. Similarly, dols implementation of a more centralized i. T. Service delivery model allowed the department to make the necessary policy changes and resource investments to ensure that dol was able to adequately support the shift to more remote work. Telework participation of dol requires telework training available through the departments internal learning development system. Additionally, the department provides employees with supplemental telework Resources Available on our internet as part of a helpful repository of coronavirus guidance and resources. The department is presently continuing to use telework to ensure its continuity of essential functions and to perform the bulk of its day to day operations. Dol is very proud of its work to implement a robust telework policy in response to the pandemic. We believe our efforts have helped the federal workforce to achieve and maintain productivity and to serve the departments mission and the American Public. Thank you again for the opportunity to address the subcommittee about the departments work and i look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Mr. Moreland. Good afternoon. Chairman langford, Ranking Member sinema, and subcommittee. Im jim borland and the chief Information Officer for i. T. Operations. Social Security First began to offer remote work options around 20 years ago when technology was much different and the solutions we had today were not widely available. Our Online Services were limited and our work was heavily paper based. Since then, weve made significant progress with modernizing our workloads and we implemented Technology Solutions and allowed us to be more agile by replacing Desktop Computers with laptops and building a Virtual Private Network to improve the business continuity. We expanded our Online Presence to make it easier for customers to do business with us without having to come into our offices. For our employee, we implemented electron being solutions that facilitated virtual and Telephone Service environments. For example, it allows employees to answer their Office Phones through their laptops. These decisions were practical and made Good Business sense for from a Customer Service standpoint. When the unprecedented covid19 pandemic hit earlier this year, those decisions supported our ability to keep Service Going remotely. While we closed our offices to the public, we never stopped providing service with over 90 of our employees with telework and also the public we serve and many of whom by definition of the work we do meet the cdcs highrisk categories. Still, we can do better and our goal is to serve the public at least as well as we serve them in person and right now thats not possible because not all of our work is portable. For example, we need employees on site to handle sensitive workloads require face to face interviews and to scale male documents into our systems so that telework can process them. Weve been able to find workarou workarounds for our inperson services and weve been flexible with policy, for example, in some cases we are allowing the telephone as an alternative way to sign documents. At ssa, telework is not one size fits all. Some work does not inherently lend itself to telework and in nonemergency times they want different amounts of telework or in some cases no telework at all. We also have confirmed that a successful continuity of Operations Plan requires a Telework Program built on modernized i. T. Infrastructure and weve been reminded that we have more work to do to establish a fully robust Telework Program based on accountability and objective measures and makes sense for the public we serve and for our employees. Its delivered a realtime pressure test and its helping us focus on where we can improve. I would like to thank the public, our employees and you for being patient and supportive of us during this National Emergency. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you. Jim, thank you very much. Senator sinema and i have a hant in our hearings that we hold our questions to the end and we defer to other members to be able to add questions in. This would be an interesting dynamic for the four witnesses to participate in this. You have some senators that will call you by name or title. I would encourage those who join us remotely to just unmute and jump in if you want to be able to answer a question and feel like you are in the room with us as well and with that, i recognize senator carper for questions. Can you recognize me with my mask on . I can. Here we go. Hi, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us today. I want to start off with a question to mr. Boreland and this was a question that was suggested to us by a member of our constituent Services Team and it goes Something Like this. As you know the Social Security administration requires physical inspection of personal identification documents and theyre in order to process certain questions that come us to. Due the pandemic and the current adin instation are asking people to send in these original documents by mail so they can undergo physical inspection. Ive heard from a number of court constituents in delaware that are concerned about mailing their original documents specifically about the security of those documents and the timeliness for which they will return. Mr. Morland, heres my question, can you share with us how the Social Security administration is working to address the concerns . Thank you. Thank you, senator carper. Let me first say that we recognize that the pandemic has reduced service challenges for us. Youre correct. One of the requirements of our regulations is that for a new Social Security card or a Social Security card that reflects changes and name, for instance, we do require documentation and the original documentation. We take protecting the integrity of the Social Security card and number very seriously. We do have in some cases a limited ability to set appointments for individuals and those opportunities are limited. We are forced on a Public Health direction to limit the number of employees that we have in our offices and to limit the number of members of the public that we provide inperson service to. Appointments are available for what we call dire need cases and we are fulfilling that requirement. We dont as i mentioned in my testimony, we dont have a workaround for all of our inperson services, and unfortunately the Social Security card is one of those, but i also want to say that most americans who need a replacement card can use my Social Security service. They can go online at Social Security. Gov, set up a my Social Security account and request a nochange replacement card fully online. Thank you, jim. Ms. Washington. How many years have you worked at d. O. T. . Senator, ive worked at the department of transportation for 29 years. Okay. Have you testified before hearings where i previously attended . Sir, this is my first opportunity to testify. How is it going . So far so good. [ laughter ] yeah. When i was governor i used to love testifying before house and senate hearings. I hope you will enjoy it as much as i did when i was sitting in your seat. I was encouraged to learn that the department of transportation had successfully moved the program to a fully virtual format and it allows leaders to participate. In the next couple of months well have a new administration and the federal government. Can you explain how the department of transportations and they will need what they need to be successful during this time and the second half of my question is do you have any recommendations with another agency with regard to the employees. Thank you. Thank you, senator, for that question. So at the onset of the pandemic, we reached out right away to the Human Capital office to our stakeholders in Information Technology and we came up with a virtual onboarding experience and as you stated that has allowed very senior levels of the department to participate. In fact we successfully onboarded department of transportation employees across the country and theyve been able to hear from the chief of staff. He actually personally participates in that virtual onboarding experience every other monday. So that has worked very well. Another thing that we have done, recognizing the need that many of our employees are working in a remote environment and we have assigned a sponsor for all of our new employees so they can feel part of the team and they can get best practices from long serving employees. So i think the collaboration with the Information Technology has been integral to the process so our employees across the country would be our experience. That would be my recommendation with other agencies and the collaboration in partnership with the various elements of the organization. All right. Great. Thank you. One last question if i can with mr. Rose, and mr. Washington. The Cybersecurity Infrastructure is [ indiscernible ] over the years, a number of my colleagues and i worked together at the Homeland Security Department Resources to carry out a number of years ago. One agency they am most proud of their mission is the cybersecurity and infrastructure. It is the department of Homeland Security. I often say if you want to go fast or if you want to go forward, go together. I do not see much at all which i presume would be incredibly valuable as you provide a cybersecurity tool and assessment capabilities to safeguard the networks. Can i ask each of you, starting with mr. Rose, briefly describe your relationship and tell us what more needs to be done for the partnership in the cybersecurity space. Lets start with mr. Morland, if we run out of time. Lets be brief. Oh, im sorry, senator. You wanted to start with me . Ms. Rose . Yes. Information technology is not in my portfolio, however, i do work very, very closely with our chief Information Officer to make sure that as we onboard new employees and as we equip employees to work in a telework environment we are meeting all federal cybersecurity environments. Lets turn to mr. Washington, same question. Describe your relationship with the partnership. Thank you, senator, for that question. At the department of transportation we take sir cybersecurity very seriously and we believe the centralization of a lot of our commodity i. T. Sort of centralizing and getting rid of dupe lilicative systems and have had Security Awareness training and we also give weekly messages, just reminders of employees to how to operate from a cybersecurity perspective in a remote environment. We also have issued laptops. D. O. T. Issued laptops to all of our remote employees and they have security Monitoring Software on them that alerts the user and d. O. T. Cyber officials in a threat is detected. And we really havent noticed an increase in attacks during the pandemic. I think my time has expired and thank you very much for letting me go over time. Mr. Moreland, please continue. Thank you, sir. Ill go to senator sinema for questions. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. First, i just want to thank our panelists again for their presentations today. I did note, mr. Washington and ms. Rose, in your testimony you highlighted a number of successes that your agencies have had in expanding telework during the pandemic which i very much appreciated hearing about. I do find it slightly strange, though, that your agencies then insisted on you appearing before the committee in person which im not sure is quite the message you want to send during this time of rising covid cases. Just a thought for you to have before. My first question is for mr. Borland. Before the pandemic, your agency reported it was moving away from telework because because it cou evaluate the impact of telework on Public Services and didnt have the metrics in place to ensure accountability. Today your agency is working to put these controls and metrics in place and there are media reports that employees are successfully decreasing the backlog of claims in this situation. So could you tell me, what has ssa learned about telework in recent months to cause it to change direction dramatically and how do these learnings inform your decisions moving forward . Thank you for that question, senator sinema. Telework is not one size fits all. We obviously have a core Public Service function, but that manifests itself in many, many different kinds of work. So prior to the pandemic we did reevaluate our Telework Program to focus on accountability and to ensure that we could address our Public Service challenges. I think that we all recognize that the Social Security administration is serving the 10,000 baby boomers that retire every day. So thats claims for medicare, claims for Retirement Benefits and Public Service has always been so very fundamental to our mission. So in the reevaluation of our Telework Program, because we did not have a historically adequate metric and as my colleague said, adequate Program Evaluation, e succumb opponent determined telework eligibility based on Public Service needs and the ability to ensure account ability. Thank you. I have a followup question for you as well. One of the challenges of this pandemic has been recognizing that some jobs cant be done fully or even partially through telework. Early in the pandemic, my arizona Case Work Team was fielding calls from constituents who were having a hard time getting Social Security cards replaced at their local field offices and access to onlineonly services can be difficult in rural areas or areas where access to a computer is limited. How are you collecting and considering feedback from beneficiaries as you review the shift to maximum telework and assess these practices moving forward . Thank you. Its a Perfect Question to pose to me because im a technology guy. And we are looking at new ways to use technology. I mentioned our nonpartable work. Our nonportable work is not portable because theres not technology to support that. But thats not its one of the Lessons Learned of trying to serve the American Public remotely. And specifically with regard to Social Security cards, we are looking at the use of technology, Video Technology and the ability to rather than inspect a physical, for example, drivers license, confirm a drivers license features for a day exchange, realtime so that we could use a combination of Data Exchange and Video Technology to handle Social Security workloads, the technology is there. But we, until the pandemic, we werent looking at it. We are looking at it now very, very seriously. Thank you. I appreciate that. My next question is for mrs. Rose. Inspectors have to be on site to perform inspections, but some portion of their jobs can be done remotely. Employees have shared with our committee that theyre not being granted permission for partial telework and even more concerning, some employees are not asking their supervisors for telework over fears of retaliation. How is d. O. L. Working to overcome longstanding prejudice against telework so all employees who are eligible and able can do so for a portion of their job and what mechanisms is d. O. L. Using to deny telework without fear of retaliation. Thank you so much for that question. 99 of dol employees at this time are eligible for telework and up to 98 of our employees are teleworking almost every day and that does including our safety inspectors and other employees who work in the field performing enforcement and inspection duties. We have encouraged our safety expert t experters and other employees to telework as much as feasible. Other portions of their job require them to continue to remain in the field. We make sure that they have ppe and they are properly equipped and trained when they have to go into public areas to perform inspection and enforcement duties. But were also working very hard to make sure that those portions of their job that dont require them to be on site are done remotely, safely and with social distancing. We meet on a regular, reoccurring basis with their Union Representatives to discuss their concerns and issues, our assistant secretary for administration and management is meeting on a weekly basis with leadership and representatives of our three bargaining units to address the kinds of concerns that youre sharing today and to make sure that we have solutions and we work collaboratively with the union to craft those solutions. I appreciate that. And we may follow up with some of the concerns weve heard from employees as well. Thank you. My time is soon to expire. But i have one last question for mr. Washington. In may, transportations chief Information Officer was quoted in a federal times article that noted your agency is, quote, absolutely seeing an increase in productivity, end quote, across the workforce. How are you measuring these increases in productivity and to what do you tribute those increases to . Thank you so much for that question, senator. We do believe that productivity has increased at the department of transportation and were proud that the department of transportation employees have risen to the occasion. One example, we wanted metrics for assessing productivity, so we did do a survey to survey our managers and were proud to report that 55 of them felt that their work unit was even more effective during the covid19 pandemic. So that is one metric that we use, the survey. Also when Congress Approved the c. A. R. E. S. Act, the federal transit administration, they were able to obligate all of the funding to the stakeholders over 24 billion ahead of the statutory deadline. There are numerous examples of the productivity enhancements as a result of the remote environment at the department of transportation. Thank you so much, mr. Washington. I yield back. Would you like to do a second round . Yes, i will. Well make sure we reserve that as well. I know we have senator rosen is joining us in just a moment. Let me ask a few questions until senator rosen is able to join us remotely as well. I want to zero in on some of the things that gao has established. Gao has looked at this issue of telework for a long time. Theres one statement that stuck out to me on it. The statement from gao, you said this about Performance Management, agencies should establish guidelines to minimize adverse impacts that telework can have on nonteleworkers. Provide clarity for us. What did you mean by that . Thank you, senator. We dont want to create disagreements between those who can telework and those who cannot by forcing those who are in the office to take up responsibilities of those that are teleworking. Whether that means physically moving documents or doing work that cant be done remotely. And so you want to make sure that if there are times that someone who is not teleworking needs to stand in for someone who is, that there is equity in that and so that responsibilities are shared across both those who telework and those who dont. Let me provide a little color to this and how ill ask you this question. Several years ago, i was visiting one of our agencies, and ill leave the agency out as i do this. I was visiting one of our agencies and it happened to be on a friday, Walking Around through the cubical farm in that particular entity and talking to different employees there, how is it going . How is the morale . And in the dialogue, i heard repetitively, its friday, so half of our people arent here. Theyre, quote unquote, teleworking. But i know theyre just not working today. And they were angry. Im working hard, they took the day off, but they say, quote unquote, teleworking. When i read that statement from gao, i thought, i personally heard that where individuals felt like they were carrying the burden. Just about everybody has been teleworking. Theres not been an option here back and forth. In the days ahead, we look forward to the time we have a vaccine and we have that option again. What would you recommend to your because what i was picking up from people that were not teleworking was a sense that the people that were teleworking were not being held to account, that the same metrics werent being used for them for productivity as it was for those who were in the office for productivity. Thank you for that. One of the key practices that we emphasize is that the performance appraisal system and Performance Management needs to treat teleworkers and nontell workers the same. They need to be rated on the same competencies and judged accordingly. I think one of the issues is that telework requires a different way of managing staff. As opposed to managing by observation, you need to manage by results. We would also suggest that someone that you have a performance issue with, you are likely to have that performance issue with them regardless whether theyre teleworking or in the office, and finally if somebody you cannot observe is not working, thats not a telework issue but that is a trust issue. Again, that goes back to that holding staff accountable for the results and the time frames and the work products that theyre supposed to produce regardless of where theyre working. Thank you. At the department of labor, are your managers able to hold teleworkers to account to be able to check in on them, evaluate, to be able to have metrics performances, this is not new to the department of labor. Youve done telework for a long time and you have a log lot t o workers that telework. What authorities does your management have or what boundaries do they have in their management capabilities in the Office Versus in telework situation . Thank you, senator. Weve worked hard with your managers and supervisors to make sure they feel equipped and supported to manage in a virtual environment. As youve acknowledged, its different to supervise someone remotely than it is someone that you can see physically throughout the workday and check in on periodically. Weve been able to Leverage Technology to replicate as much of a reallife experience as possible just as were doing today with a partially virtual hearing. We find that works very well. Our Performance Management system for years at d. O. L. Has been metricsbased and we really work hard to make sure that all employees performance plans are linked to departmental and agency operating plans and contain quantifiable measures. Im delighted to report that weve just completed our 2020 performance year and have noticed no appreciable decrease in productivity or achievement against those operating plan metrics the whole time weve been teleworking. Its interesting to note not a day goes by that i dont have managers tell me that they cant believe how well telework is expects. And they say, i dont know what i expected, but im surprised and happy that it is going so well. So the training, the support and the performance elements that were holding employees to seem to be working. I want to loop you into this conversation. Both of you deal with a lot of privacy information. More so than many other entities do, obviously, every agency does some. But you deal with a lot for both of your entities. Not only with your own employees dealing with that, but theres also as weve mentioned already there are individuals trying to get access to you. I had the same calls into my constituent services and caseworkers, those calls would come in saying im trying to get a Social Security card replaced and i cant get anyone there and we have an extra hurdle in oklahoma that were trying to get all of our real i. D. Stuff all worked out and its made it much more complicated and physically putting documents in the mail and mailing them to you has been a challenge for department of labor, ive had individuals that have contacted me that said we love the flexibility that we have because we have employees that weve hired remotely and were not having to physically handle their documents this year. Were given authority to be able to virtually look at their license, virtually look at their birth certificate for an i9 and theyre wondering how do we keep that. Theres two sides of this, the dialogue for our customers, our taxpayers to say, how can they get that flexibility and for the agency how can they continue to maintain private information as private and secure . Your i. T. Genius in this conversation. Im going to let you take off on this first. Thank yo thank you, senator. We hold some very, very private information of the American Public and very valuable information. And while telework is not new for us, technology does give us opportunities to ensure the continued protection of that information. First, i think we were one of the first agencies to implement a twofactor authentication for our employees and contractors so that we have logical and physical access through our personal Identity Verification cards. Our Network Monitoring is similar to but not the same as prepandemic. And when i say that, when you take a workforce that is connected to the wall and immediately swing it to connect to the internet, there are some specific challenges there. We were able to pivot and change the way we do things like scanning for vulnerabilities and remediating them. We also look at from an integrity standpoint, we have a longstanding process for monitoring transactions that take place within our systems to make sure that no one, employees or the public, are misusing the access to the systems that they have. Our employees, again our Information Security policy is very clear. We do not allow bring your own device. Employees are not allowed to print at home. Weve done extensive telework training in cybersecurity training for our Remote Workforce and we think that that has probably improved our security posture, at we have some unique changes im sorry, some unique challenges in being remote. Any thoughts that you have for the end user, for the taxpayer themselves and their use of digital items to be able to submit, are there statutory limitations of that, or is it Just Technology limitations . There are some limitations. Some statutory, some regulatory, but technology can overcome some of those challenges. As i mentioned in response to my other question, we are looking at how we can use Data Exchanges to verify identity documents so they do not have to be physically produced. Ms. Rose, do you want to make a comment on this, as far as protecting private information and giving the flexibility to individuals to be able to submit their information . Yes, thank you, senator. We have implemented many of these same security protocols that the Social Security administration has in place. Were using multifactor authentication, we do not permit Sensitive Data to be accessed on anything but governmentprovided d. O. L. Computers. So we feel that we have an environment and weve worked closely with our colleagues in the Information Technology office to make sure that environment stays safe and secure. We have on boarded over 1,000 people now virtually since the pandemic started. And we have gotten extremely positive feedback from all of the users, the people who are being on boarded, the supervisors and managers who are welcoming new employees in, a lot of people have commented on the ease of the on boarding process because we have converted all of those paperbased forms to the computer. Weve done away with wet signature everywhere we can. Were using digital signatures now. We provide the oath of office virtually and we will probably continue that process with Lessons Learned beyond the pandemic. It has been so successful and it has made facetoface contact with people who are remotely duty stations much more effective and vibrant. Were going to come back to that as well. I want to recognize senator sinema. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ms. Rose, one thing i noticed is that the policies vary based across agencies and even sometimes within offices inside agencies. So it makes it pretty confusing for federal employees and challenging for congress to track. Are there recommendations that you would make to congress to better standardize Agency Policies and the tracking of those policies as we look at telework in a postpandemic world . Thank you, senator. Thats a very good question. So one of our key practices is that eligibility be based on be approved on an equitable basis is that the criteria be things such as the suitability of tests to a remote environment and employee performance. So i think the key is to ensure that agencies have concrete Eligibility Criteria that are based on those types of things and that are applied consistently across the agency. I would say that i would make sense that there would be some variation among agencies since their missions differ and the type of work differs and, of course, some positions are less suitable for remote or telework than others. Thank you. Ms. Rose, given the broad success of telework during the pandemic, how are you approaching plans to move employees back on site once this Public Health emergency is over and what data are you examining to ensure that on site work is safe and essential . We have worked very hard and long, senator, on our reopening plans as it were. We will take a phased approach. We will follow state and local guidelines in doing that and follow the governmentprescribed criteria to bring people back. We have put safety procedures and protocols in place in all of our Government Office space, things that include the wearing of masks in public and common spaces. Weve put in plexiglass barriers and shields so that people who face the public in the office are protected and the public is protected. And weve set up seating ska met ticks so people are not working on top of each other or directly next to each other. Well continue to leverage telework with an onsite presence in order to maximize social distancing in what have been fairly traditionally close working spaces in cubicles and the movement away from fourwall offices. So we have gotten a lot of information about safety and security out to our workforce already. Everything is posted on our internet and we will continue to work with our labor unions and our employees as we move back to a traditional work posture to make sure people feel safe, secure and protected and are safe, secure and protected. Your agency is unique in not only were you transitioning your own employees to telework, but you were releasing guidance to the Broader Workforce to best practices. I realize that private sector guidance is not your area of expertise but i would like to follow up with your agency on this topic. Yes. Guidance on telework external to the federal government has been provided. It is my understanding by our wage and Hour Division and we would be happy to get you that information. I appreciate that. Focusing on the department of labors workforce, can you share any instances where work you initially thought had to be done in an office space ended up being compatible with telework . And are any of these instances relative to changing labors view of determining telework eligibility . We had a higher percentage of people whose jobs were not considered telework eligible under the telework enhancement act prior to the pandemic and our managers and supervisors have worked to see how those positions can be reformatted, how duties and responsibilities can be reallocate asked how technology can be leveraged using data on forms that have now been converted to digital so we could send more of our employees home to work during the pandemic. We have very few jobs that require an inoffice, onsite presence, jobs like receptionist, jobs like mail clerk, jobs like building engineer and even with those positions, weve tried to find duties and responsibilities that are discreet and unique and compatible to moving into a remote work environment, even if its parttime. Thank you. Mr. Washington, in your testimony, you noted that your agency was considering a new remote work policy before the pandemic. Looking ahead, i think as we all are, to a nonpandemic situation, what advantage wills a robust remote work policy bring to your agency and what barriers do you foresee in implementing such a policy. Thank you, senator, for that question. We were considering a remote policy prior to the pandemic and were continuing to assess that. But one of the rational for it was to help us with the ability to recruit and retain talent. And what we found in the National Capital area where we compete for hr specialists and acquisition specialists among each other, i see my colleague in labor nodding her head, that has been a challenge. So were hoping that if we can broaden the applicant pool nationwide, that we can really recruit and retain employees at a better rate so that it will really improve our attrition. So that our rational. Weve learned a lot over the last few months. So were trying to make that Business Case before Going Forward with our remote policy. Were benchmarking with the private sector and our stakeholders at other federal agencies as well. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my round of questioning. And thank you for holding this hearing again. Thank you for your participation in the hearing as well. Mr. Washington, i want to continue to press this and i want to talk to all four of you on this one issue, its about hiring. It is a shift in perspective because many of the telework individuals are people that are connected to the office and they telework one day a week, two days a week, three days a week, but theyre in the office or maybe theyre in the office once a month or whatever it maybe, but theres a physical connection here. Theres a paradigm shift in the conversation to say weve now learned that we can not only telework five days a week, but we can do that month after month after month and it begs the basic question, why couldnt you hire someone in oklahoma to be able to do a task for an agency thats based in washington, d. C. . Whats the difference between washington, d. C. , Northern Virginia, oklahoma and arizona for actually bringing people on board . And the practical question is, theres not one. It also opens up a significant job opportunity to, lets say, spouses of our military which often are working in very remote areas by definition, a base or a post is very far from another area and there are very few Jobs Available, but they could work at department of transportation in a telework situation even if theyre in beautiful, fabulous oklahoma where there arent as many Jobs Available in that area because its a remote training area. So thats whether youre Border Patrol and youre assign today the northern border in north dakota in a remote area and youre a spouse and you dont have many options or youre a military spouse, this opens up a lot of options for the spouses to help the other federal families, not to mention a lot of other people who want to work in other areas. I wants to drill down, what would prohibit you in the regulatory space or the statutory requirements or just in practical engagement from not hiring people that you literally never plan to meet or if you do plan to meet, it may be an annual meeting at some point in the future, but youre talking about on boarding, supervising, working at a distance, with no intention that theyll drive in once a week to be able to ever connect with the office on that. What would prohibit that . Mr. Washington, you first. Thank you so much for your comments and thats so interesting that you mention military spouses because i just had that conversation with a colleague a couple weeks ago because, you know, with a lot of military spouses, you bring the person on board, you train them, theyre an excellent employee and then the veteran is deployed somewhere and you dont want to lose your investment. Weve been flexible prepandemic at the didnt of transportation with allowing employees to, you know, transition and work remotely. Were hoping as a result of a lot of our Lessons Learned from the Health Emergency that managers would be more receptive. I think its more of a culture change and were compiling a lot of the data to build that Business Case to have a more rigorous remote work policy. But i think a lot of it is culture change. Theres not anything regulatory right now that you couldnt do that today or that you couldnt do that in a decision you want to make . Im not aware of regulatory barriers. In fact, there could be cost savings. If the employee is working in oklahoma or a rural area where the cost of living and the locality pay is cheaper, there could be cost savings associated with that. I would think the exact same thing. Im grateful to say that oklahoma has a much lower cost of living than Northern Virginia. And so hiring people out of Northern Virginia rather than hiring people out of oklahoma or so many other great states scattered around the country, theres a cost savings there and theres a ready workforce that may be interested to take that on in another group of people you could recruit from. Talk to me about this on the hiring side of this, why wouldnt that work and what are the barrier that is you see. It absolutely would work and it does work. We had already started making that shift at the Labor Department just as the Transportation Department has. It was a paradigm shift for some of our managers and supervisors who have now had their you are ree ka moment, i have an employee pool that is the entire United States not just the d. C. Metro area. Were announcing jobs at this time for all locations. No longer just a washington, d. C. Duty station or a chicago, illinois, duty station. In the office of Human Resources itself, about a third of my staff is 100 remote telework and that will continue permanently beyond the pandemic because of where theyre located and where theyre working. I just had an employee in my office whose husband was posted to germany and shie was going t accompanying him to frankfurt and shes still working for us and will continue to work for me full time for his entire assign in germany. Its the best and we have found that employees outside the washington, d. C. , area stay longer. They are happy to see working with the agency that recruited them and hired them. Employment and washington tends to be a revolving door and it goes around and around and around. Im delighted that we can now access a much bigger applicant pool of very qualified people. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, senator. I think looking at across government. The patent and Trademark Office has been doing this for years and so i dont believe there are any regulatory or statutory barriers to permanently outstationing or having, you know, kind of a work from anywhere situation. And i think that we have learned in Social Security that whether it be provisioning security credentials or laptops or cell phones, providing training, that work can be done remotely. The workforce can be remote. We have been addressing challenges, Public Service challenges on our 800 number and we have new 800 number agency that received all of their equipment, their security credentials, their on boarding, their orientation and their training remotely. And theyre working from home. Let me refine this question, not only just for your agency as well, but washington, d. C. , is one of the most expensive real estate areas in the country. Is there a potential that this could be a costsavings issue that agencies could, if they worked through the process, determine, i dont need as big of a footprint here in washington, d. C. , to be able to hire people knowing im going to assume im going to have 25 or 20 or 40 , whatever the number is, that can be hired anywhere in the world. At this point for Many American citizens. Is that something that you would see that would be a change in shift here in d. C. As well . And how we manage things. Thats a gsa question, but i have gao in front of me right now. I think theres the potential for cost savings in two ways. One is that individual salaries are based on their official duty station and if their official duty station is their home or a telework location that is in a less expensive area, than salaries could be reduced and it also could mean savings for agencies in terms of space. I know when gao moved to expanded telework, it enabled us to reduce our footprint both in our regional offices and reduce the amount of lease space and as well as in our Headquarters Building, it enabled us to rent out part of our Headquarters Building to other agencies since we had less people who needed physical space in the building. Senator rosen, i see that youre there now as well. I would love for you to join in the conversation and let me open this up to you for questions. Thank you senator, lankford. Im happy that you have held the second hearing on telework because really our federal workforce particularly how theyre coping with the stresses of the pandemic, but they still have to deliver the services that Everyone Needs and deliver them out to the American People and the way that is best. Im glad were coming together in a bipartisan way to figure out how we do this. I want to talk a little bit about cybersecurity because with millions of federal and private Sector Workers navigating the transition from an Office Environment to their home, obviously, because of covid19, maintaining cybersecurity while teleworking, while it is imperative for our National Security, really, small organizations, in particular, face challenges like resource constraints protecting themselves against cyberthreats like ransomware. We know how destructive that can be when that happens for companies. To address this vulnerability, just this very afternoon i introduced along with bipartisan legislation, along with senator moran that requires cisa to publish cybersecurity best practices and small governmental jurisdictions, those could be our school districts. Weve had attacks on systems in my state. Youre facing unprecedented cybersecurity challenges now, but the majority of your workforce is working virtually. Can you tell us what you assess to be the most significant and most prevalent challenges federal agencies may be facing when theyre implementing teleworkrelated cybersecurity practices and, you know, that cisa, they put out guidelines and done a lot of work on that, how can we be sure that those best practices are reaching particularly our federal workforce . Thank you, senator rosen. What i could say to you is that we have ongoing work. Our Information Technology and Cybersecurity Team has initiated work in implementing Telework Solutions in response to the pandemic and to what extend the selected agencies addressed federal Information Security guidance when implementing those solutions. That work is still in its initial phases but the team expects to issue something this summer. Thank you. Anyone else want to talk about the cybersecurity practices and the challenges youve had, or how we can help best respond and overcome those cybersecurity challenges. Youre protecting, obviously, personal information. Particularly our Social Security administration. Senator rosen, if i may, thank you for that question. I want to emphasize its something that senator carper said earlier, that our agency has a very close and productive working relationship with cisa. Obviously, we need to. Cybersecurity is of critical importance to the American Public when it comes to protecting their personal information and Social Security has one of the largest repositories of that information in government. We have found the concept of having cisa to be so incredibly helpful because they have the ability to do a threat assessment and intelligence gathering that even as a Large Federal Agency would take many resources and would be duplicative. So when we get a binding operational directive from cisa, we know its been thoroughly researched, its a real threat, they give us advice as to what to do and our role is just to get it done. And so in that regard, the advice, the direction that we get from cisa really has a major role to play in improving and sustaining strong cybersecurity posture. Thats fantastic. I cant see everyone there. If theres anyone else that wants to respond to that. Otherwise i do have one other question in my remaining time and, of course, we know the general public, theyre depending on our federal agencies for our services, our Social Security checks, our va benefits, so many things that theyre going to benefit all of us in the long run. And maintenance of our public lands, even. Particularly the time when reliable information about Public Health and safety is so important. We have to have the public trust our federal agencies to offer Fast Services and accurate responses. Anyone who would like to address this, how can you talk about how you met the pandemics challenges in terms of providing Public Services, Customer Service, especially that aspect of your agencys mission. Youre missing out on some of the face to face what kind of adaptations do you have to make. I know theres benefits, but what are we missing, what can we help you do better, because some things do get lost in translation when youre maybe just on the phone. Thank you, senator, i would be happy to. So when the when the pandemic was declared by the world health organization, we pretty quickly swung to maximize telework, but we also made the decision to close our offices. As i mentioned in my opening remarks, we serve a population that is particularly vulnerable to covid19, and because of the nature of the work that we do, you need to protect not only employees but the public. We made the decision to close our offices, but we swung immediately to a Public Information campaign to make sure that local communities knew that while our physical buildings were closed, that our employees were working, that they could be reached at the phone number for their local Social Security office and if you have a claims rep that you work with at that office, you can reach that claims rep. Our 800 Number Service had some different challenges once we were able to overcome pretty quickly. We had a situation where we have a legacy telephone platform and only 25 of our employees were equipped to telework. We quickly reengineered a solution that would allow the 800 number employees to use the system thats used in our field offices so we could quickly telework enable all of our 800 number agents. We just ended our fiscal year and we met our average speed of answer for our 800 number. Its not as low as we want it to be and were going to keep working hard to continue to provide Better Service to the public. Thank you, i know my time is just about up. I know its speaking from hi own experience, whenever you try to do something with Customer Service, its nice to be able to get to a person and if you have to call back, again, particularly with some things for Social Security, perhaps, that the ability to continuity with the same person, really important to resolving a case without having to revisit it and relitigate it and satisfaction for everyone. So i appreciate it and i yield back my time. Thank you, senator. Thank you. I want to ask a couple more questions here. You talked about on boarding. Thats one of the challenges weve all discussed. Its a different dynamic on boarding someone youve never met. Your managers is not interacting with on a daily basis and the challenge that you have typically when you land in the middle, as you and i have both said the cubical farm and you dont know how to do a certain process, you turn to the person next to you. You dont have that at this point when youre working remotely. You dont know the people that you work around. You dont know who else to call on the team that would be able to help you in the process. You dont know your manager and your manager doesnt know you. What lessons have you learned at this point, and i would be interested if you have specific ideas on this issue about on boarding, mentoring, helping people in the earliest days to be able to be a productive valued part of a team, what lessons that youve learned in this because if were going to start hiring people no matter where they live, then were going to have that take what we learn during this time period and accelerate that in a broader perspective. Anyone can answer that question, if you have additional insight, jump in. Thank you, senator. That is an important point and its a vital lesson learned. We knew very early on that we would have to stay engaged with our employees if were not going to be physically colocated with them. Weve provided training on how to supervise in a virtual environment and quite frankly we have leveraged Information Technology to every extent possible to try to replicate a realtime, facetoface experience for our employees and for our supervisors. So were using programs like teams and skype so that people can have conversations in person, digitally, and see one another because that really makes a difference in getting to know someone. Weve tried to replicate some of our moraleboosting experiences in a virtual environment. Were going to launch our secretaries honor Award Ceremony tomorrow and it is going to be conducted completely virtually, but it will be streamed out so that all of our employees can participate and send congratulations to their colleagues just as they would if we were having the ceremony in our auditorium. It takes a lot of effort and you have to rethink the way you do things, but technology has given us the ability to be almost as good as being there, if we try and we use it. Okay. Can i request a followup question . Sure. As youre gathering all of these information and these ideas and you have new training modules and everything else, are they sharing that with each other or is every agency developing their own structure because everyone is ramping up through this time period. How much collaboration is there agency to agency to say, we found this module to be good training new employees, this is good for on boarding, this is good for measuring performance and evaluating this in a remote setting. Im asking the question, is collaboration happening at this point, what level . Im not expecting us to be perfect at this yet because were all trying to figure out. Has that started, and if, so what does it look like . It has started. We have weekly collaborative calls that all of the executive Branch Agencies participate in. We have not done as much sharing of Lessons Learned as i think we will coming out of this because as youve acknowledged, were kind of in the thick of it. And we talk to each other on a case by case, individual basis. We know each other. Its a Small Community and the collaboration vehicle is there for us to make more use of it as we gain more experience and have time to share Lessons Learned. That would be helpful. If we can participate in that, we want to be able to help in that process. Were engaged in this along with the rest of our committee. What i dont want to have a contractor pull together a training module and sell it to you and you and suddenly the taxpayer is not getting good bang for the buck because one contractor created something that is good and theyre selling it all over the place to everyone when we could buy that license once and use it governmentwide if we choose to on this. The one additional thing i would add, we have identified a sponsor for any new staff. Even before they come aboard, so they can have that as a resource that they could reach out to. And the sharing of the best practices and the collaboration has been integral to our success at the department of transportation. We have 54,000 employees all over the country. When the pandemic hit, we started weekly meetings with our hr directors and they were able to raise challenges and talked about best practices so that has been very sintegral to our success. Do you have anything you want to add . Its a Technology Solution that we found to be particularly helpful. But a pretty rudimentary one and its persistent chat rooms. Giving folks kind of that water cooler place to check in during the day, to ask questions, to touch base, we found it to be very effective in keeping those connections that were all used to from our physical work space and perpetuating them. We also make widespread use of video, video teleconferencing for meetings, i think many people have forgotten how to use their telephones because theyre used to clicking on someone and calling them. So theres lots of Great Technology out there but the important part of the use of the technology is the human aspect of it. Its that human connection. Thats why were moving towards video as well as audio, to make that human connection. Weve all been isolated a long time and its frankly really good to see my colleagues from time to time. I cant begin to tell you the number of times ive heard in the last few months when i ran into someone in person at some spot that their First Response is, its so nice to see a person. So i get that. Anything you want to add to this as well . I would certainly echo the sentiment that is my colleagues said, maintaining the social connectedness and being creative in the way that you do it is very important. I think the one thing i would add is that as part of this continuing communication, employees need to change over time and so you need to adapt as the employees needs are changing. I think we have certainly learned that as the pandemic has lasted longer than i think any of us had hoped, that weve had to adjust the types of resources we provide to staff and how we outreach to them as the situations that theyre facing change. I appreciate that very much. And youre right, this is lasted much more than any of us thought or hoped. I remember a conversations in early march saying by easter and then we would fill in the black aft blank after that. Its just the reality where we are today. I have nine hours more of questions for each of you, but youll all be glad to know that a vote has been call sed. But i appreciate your incite. Let me ask one favor from all of you, as you work through this process, youre going to bump into regulations and statutory prohibitions of things that you think this really needs to be done. This is the committee that will work on those things. So when you run into the statutory problems and issues, or regulatory issues, would you make sure that you share them with us and not assume that congress doesnt care to hear this. We do. Were not doing the same thing youre doing all day, every day. Were not going to see it at the same level you are. When you see those statutory barriers, where you see a regulatory issue that needs to be addressed, make sure you share it back with our committee. Were going to continue to work on this because this is a paradigm shift for how we work as a federal government. With greater flexibility, we will always have inperson and we should always been here in washington, d. C. , to interact for the facetoface meetings that need to occur. But we have millions of people around the country that would love to serve their country by serving in one of these agencies. And i would love for them to have the opportunity to be able to do that as well and to be able to compete to end up on someones list as the well qualified candidate that lives in oklahoma and they get the opportunity to compete for those tasks as well. I look forward to ongoing dialogue about these issues and please make sure that you continue to be able to keep that communication going with our team as were pulling together different ideas. Weve started the conversation about legislation that may be needed or helpful in this process as well. But as you have ideas, make sure those get shared with us in a timely basis. That concludes todays hearing. Im grateful for the witness that is are here and for the time youve been able to share with us. Thank you for that. The hearing record will remain open for 15 days until the close of business on thursday, december 3rd. That will be for the submission of statements and questions for the record. Thank you, again, very much for your continued service as youve done for a very long time and we look forward to getting a chance to Work Together on this. This hearing is adjourned. Thanks for this community today. Thanks for your preparation on it. This is important stuff. Its a paradigm shift for all of us, but i think its a good one. Anything that we can do to accelerate this to say, okay, we got a bigger pool, we have other opportunities that are here, its been a dialogue for years. It has. Of how to do it. Now we figured out how to do it immediately. Its ironic that it did take Something Like the pandemic to force the issue. When i saw your numbers, you all were decreasing the number of people teleworking from last year to this year and then it was a boost. Exactly. So, yeah, everybody got pushed and most of your telework was one or two days a week. Absolutely. And i love the expanded applicant pool. Its amazing were going to get a fight on that. Long term, that will be a battle to say, no, lets not do that as well. My protection ediction is, ther of folk who is are going to get in a traffic jam and theyre going to say, why am i doing this . I could have done my job without having to be in this traffic jam right. And theyre going to go look for another place and they dont have to do that and were going to lose good people or were going to figure out a way to manage this. Thanks for thinking ahead on this. Please keep the collaboration going. This i. T. Issue about sharing training tool and is modules is going to be important. Yeah. I thought that was a good point. We got to figure out how to share each one of us. Theyll try to sell each department in the agency that module. Yes. Theres all theyll do is replace the logo and resell the whole thing other again. As much sharing we can, we found this works, this is helpful, it would safe the taxpayer a ton of money. Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys, appreciate it. Weeknights this month, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight, the National World War Ii Museum in new orleans hosts author neil bascomb to talk about his book, hunting eichmann. How they chased down the worlds most notorious nazi. He talks about how a tip led capture of adoll eichmann by israeli agents. Watch tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern and enjoy American History tv every weekend on cspan3. Youre watching cspan3, your unfiltered view of government, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service. And brought to you today by your television provider. Joe biden held a virtual round table with Frontline Health care workers and others to discuss the coronavirus and whats needed to combat the pandemic as cases continue to rise across the u. S