Transcripts For CSPAN3 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240711

Different approaches to segregation. When we react, does a fiend, you are talking about significant as tlc. Different approaches to reach the same goal. Sometimes it will work, depending on who you are and what the situation is. We need to take time to look at how all those things come together at how all of those things come together, not condemn one way or another way. You have to take in the full context to understand what was happening. So these stories will help us see when we are in our own situation today, it is all right to take different approaches, depending on what was happening at the time. Thank you for that. I wanted to follow up with another question. Can you talk about who Maggie Walker was . She was one of the first africanamerican women to register to vote after the 19th amendment was ratified. Tell us a little bit about who she was and is there anything in her personal papers, anything she wrote or said that gives us insight into how she felt . Clearly she thought it was important, but what was in her heart . She was born in 1864 in richmond, virginia and grew up during the time when reconstruction was ending. The 15th amendment was passed when she was a little girl. She knew with the rates were rights were. The right to vote were being stripped away from black men during jim crow and africanamerican women like her had limited opportunity. Women like her, had limited opportunities. When she got the opportunity to be the leader of an Organization Called the independent order of sainthood. She looked at the organization as a way to expand rights and opportunities for her community. For people all across the land. She was a powerful leader, Community Leader and civil rights activists, through the order of sainthood. Becomes nationally loan for starting a bank in 1903. Choose a newspaper to speak out for civil rights, speak out for civil rights and against jim crow and segregation and injustice. With this, she was also a member of National Organizations such as the National Association for colored women, which had formed to have a platform to speak out against lynching. To speak out for suffrage, to speak out first of all rights for women. They were involved in trying to make sure that the right to vote was applied universally. When you had the rights that were branded to black man in the 15 amendment, shipped away, Maggie Walker and the women of the nac w. , knew that they had to use their platform the best they could to try to get right back. So she starts out by 1920 she is very much advocating for womens suffrage. As soon as she could after the passage of the 19th amendment, she went down to city hall and registered to vote. She was also a woman who lifted herself up to be quite privileged. She has a nice home as a president , as a leader of the order of saint loop. She did not forget those who had less. Those who did not have was she had. Use your position to help educate and enroll black women to register to vote, that was a challenge. Here in the south in richmond virginia, so the registration for women was segregated and you had registrars working to register the white woman then you did for the black women. Miss walker was out there saying you dont have, enough to put me in there. I will do it. They did not let or do that, but over the course of three days, in spite of all the obstacles that they had facing them. Miss walker in or a brown, were able to get 2500 women, register to vote. They would continue as a community to educate, get people prepared for the literacy test, to help them pay the pull taxes. He would continue this through until she passes away in 1934 . Right at the beginning of the modern Civil Rights Movement. Showing there is a reason to work, even if you dont see the benefit of it for yourself. It is important to lay the groundwork for the next generation to keep on building. Thank you for that. I have a question for you. The National Voting Rights Museum in alabama, they have a slogan on their website that reads. And i picked cotton can pick our president. That is a powerful slogan. Can you say more about how that museum or other museums in the triple am universe are tackling the universe of black women rice. Sure thing, before do that, i just want to say that gina, thank you so much for shouting out delta sorority. To all my sororities out there, this is a time that we are being. Back to the question. I can definitely answer that. All of our museums are convening to start a revolution. It is a quiet revolution, but it is a revolution of Voting Rights and making sure people are registered to vote, taking sure in the community they are getting out to make sure people understand the gravity of what it is to not vote. I am learning a lot of our museums are trying to address a generation of people who do not understand how important it is to vote because they do not see the person they want on the ticket, so they are like, no one is moving me, i will not vote. I will not call their names because they will blow up my phone, and one phone is connected to every device in my house since we started social distancing, but one of my members told me they are so woke, they are asleep. That is basically what everyone is combating, trying to wake up, like in spike lees movie, it is serious. Making sure the communities in which they serve understand what will happen if we did not vote. What it looks like when we dont vote. The trends of what has happened in the past, of why it is important for black people to get out and vote, people have lost their lives to vote. The thing that sticks with me is thinking about how long africanamericans, i heard stories growing up about how my greatgrandparents had to walk five country miles to get to a polling place, and it is real. It is serious. There are people who died. Blood, sweat, tears went into making sure we could vote and we cannot just sit back. This is not a time for us to be quiet and sit back and allow things to happen to us. We have to be the change we want to see and i feel like we have enough members who have done the work and are still here and can tell us what it was like trying to make sure people could vote. Jo has the whole story about her dad and making sure in Lowndes County people can vote. This is happening all over the country. Its not just Lowndes County. It does not matter where you are. I think its funny that people think these same problems are not happening in the north. I am from new jersey. I can tell you, they were happening. To summarize that, i can say that our museums are out in the communities even when it is not something we are supposed to be doing because of covid. We are doing it safely, but we have to be out in the face of folks to let them know that it is important. It is not a time for us to be quiet and not do it. We have to act. To follow up on that, i wanted to ask, you what is some of the best examples that you have from some of the museums that are in your association about the way that they are interpreting the Voting Rights story . They have oral history, video interpretation whether the innovative practices that you are seeing from gotta museums protecting preserving and interpreting it . As you said, oral histories an exhibit designs. In the era of court mid, everything has to be virtual. Putting artifacts on their websites, having robots in the museums to show certain parts of the exhibit. Read exhibit, normally would read 88 compliance, theyre actually doing it for people who want to be able to visit their museums while they are temporary closed. A lot of the museums are slowly opening and doing so responsibly based on nine covid guidelines, other city or state for covid. I think what was done at the Maggie Walker site, using a google robot, that is something our museums are implementing as well. A lot of people will start calling you, ajena, about how you got that robot. I used it a lot when i was in park service. It spoke to me. And now the museum sees we need to be more nimble and have to think of creative ways to get to people. A lot of folks are making sure their facebook pages are more pronounced, social Media Presence is more pronounced than in the past. That is Something Else happening as well. For public programming, you can go to the museums website and you will see there is a program that responds with the voters rights for now and will obviously ramp up next month to vote aggressively. With the google street views we used ajena the programming intern that we did. That was a program that we did a long time ago, a few years back, and it was 14 different sites that google approach to do these different tours. It was on our website, people would go to it and go on their own. With having to be creative and innovative, we started using that with major guided tours, showing that we had a ranger on a zoom call and take people to the site. Technology has advanced even further. When you look into the mirrors at Maggie Walkers house, sometimes you can see the machine reflected in the mirror. It was so big, we could not take it up to do the upper floors. By now technology is such you can take a cell phone and record the tours. Thats another option. It is a way to get the stories told beyond the walls in the museum when i was speaking to a few of my museums when covid first hit, we were trying to figure out, what can we do quickly . A lot of museums were temporarily closing and i have to say that because i was saying, our museums are closed and people were like, no for legal reasons, yes, temporarily closed, our folks were picking up cell phones, taking pictures of a piece of the collection and just pushing it out on social media. You are correct that the machine is huge. Again, just being nimble. You cant get it up the stairs, it cant go to the secondfloor, it is not designed for that. I dont think rosie robot was designed for that. To live in 2020, as crazy as 20 20 is, we were able to shift. If this was 1990 or even the 2000s, we would not be in the situation we are in now. For all the craziness that 2020 is, i am thankful that we have the technology that we have so we can continue to keep moving and keep making sure that we are in the communities in which we serve. Im going to go to some questions from our viewers and im going to start with one from betty pickett. Nelly quandary wrote a letter to alice paul saying that College Women should be allowed to walk with white College Women in the parade. Wp told alice paul what she was doing about it, like summer justs were allowed to walk with white suffragists. Black suffragists were allowed to walk with white separatists. In the chat i am learning as well, because when you go to some of the documentaries that are out now, the way that the story is told is it was completely segregated and when you see the pictures of the march, it has Howard University students marching in a group in the back of the parade. So i would love to look further to see about how they were allowed or that part of it from another perspective. These are the things we need to have come out to hear the different angles or views so that we can have the fullest picture. Yeah, in particular for ida b. Wells, she waited along the side for the illinois delegation to walk past and she joined them. She was welcomed by her white colleagues. Alice paul was dealing with i think what she felt would be a poor response from southern elected officials in congress who had the responsibility for ratifying the womens suffrage bill amendment and i think that was uppermost in her mind and how she responded to the presence of africanamerican women in that march. Beatrice jones is asking, is the centuryold rbg universal flag a permanent fixture in all aaam museums and if not, why not . Do you have black flag vendors to maintain your flag needs over time . I can answer that quickly from my end. I would need to ask our members. There is a Permanent Collection and a temporary collection. I would need to ask them how it is being preserved and i can get that back to you. I do not have the answer right now because each collection is specific to our members. As for me, with the national sites, we just have our United States flag in the state flags that we are part of. As far as i know, those are the restrictions thank you for that. Jo, want to go back to you. We are both an integral part of this coalition for people seeking the alabama black National Heritage area and wanted to find out why you are supporting that cause and how you think it might protect and preserve the history of the Voting Rights struggle. Thank you for asking that. There are 19 counties and we know that we need more funds because the counties are the poorest counties in the nation. I am interested because as i mentioned, all the work that was done, there is nothing to show for it. People talk about the cell not the march and skip over what happened in alabama. With all of the work that we did there with the workshops, how to run for political offices, we need something to recognize them. I am hopeful that they will recognize the work that was done and also recognize the schools we built in 1883. That school is still standing. It is on the national register. Most people have not heard of it. Most people have not heard of the reconstruction legislator. We will focus attention on an area that has done a lot of work but has not been recognized. While we have you, for those of the audience members who have not been to Lowndes County, can you give us a description of which hometown your home county looks like . What if you look like in the day and what it looks like now. We want brick homes rather than shacks. The people have been kept on plantations and most of them did not have their own property. You go from mostly shack houses to houses now that are brick homes. There are still some People Living in mobile homes which do not have Running Water in some places. We have environmental issues, sewage problems and all of that. Lowndes county is still one of the poorest counties in the nation. Maybe even more of the proof that we need to get back on the Voting Rights track, make sure we have the representation necessary. Ajena, want to come to you. We had a conversation about the womens suffrage, the ratification of the 19th amendment, and we have had the statement from our colleague, betty pickett, rounding out that story. Do you think there has been enough of a conversation nationally about the Womens Suffrage Movement and the racial component of that, the racism in the movement, the opportunity for alliances across races, but the incidence that may be kept black women in a segregated position for a variety of reasons . Having had enough of a conversation about that . If so, what are the next step . If not, how do we continue to highlight that story . I do not feel that there has been enough of a conversation, though we are making Great Strides in trying to bring it forward. As i mentioned, there have been several documentaries that have been premiered in recognition of the centennial. One that was put out by tennessee public tv station, and what was pleasing to me is they made an effort to integrate the story of what was happening with black women and at the same time, they were talking about what is happening with the white women in the majority suffrage organizations. We are seeing progress in how the story is being woven together and it is bringing women of other ethnic backgrounds, racial backgrounds into the stories. It is not done, it is not finished. From the comment there, there are different ways more things to look at, more documents to come out. I am familiar with that letter that was referred to that puts another twist on what that picture showed. We need to have people to bring forward these stories so that we can make it a richer presentation, so we can get the conversation going. What i mentioned about the womens rights program, that is going to be rebroadcast on october 24 through the public station in new york. Very interesting conversation about the legacy. That is what is important, for us to look at those who are descendents, and we essentially are all descendents and benefited from what these things were. We still need to have the conversation. Weve got a comment. That letter referenced the president of the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority was written on february 17, 1913 and the right way no, the way to right wrongs is turn the light of truth upon them. The way to right wrongs is to turn the light of truth upon them. Put that in your notebook. Vedet, coming back to you, i see similarities between what you are doing now with the association of African American museums and the work that dr. Carter woods did in 1915, getting out the journal of negro history and establishing black history month. What are your priorities for using the Museum Community to highlight africanamerican history, africanamerican culture, the africanamerican experience . Tie that to Voting Rights but anything else you are working on at this point to make people more aware. You have a moment right now. Thank you. For us, it is really about education. Much like the doctor, it is about educating folks, making sure that they know their stories. Some people, as much as we, as scholars, would love to say, did you read this book, that book, most people want to do the tangible things such as go to a museum. I did not know until i went to x, y, and z museum and sometimes i am astonished but other times i am like, that is what we are here for, we are here to educate. I went to Virginia State university in petersburg, virginia, which is not far from ajenas site, but i never went to the Maggie Walker site until i was in grad school at howard. I did not know that they existed. It is about making sure that folks are educated and know that our sites and museums are places of knowledge and we have a breadth as well. When you walk through, usually you will see that wall text and right under their are a bunch of scholars who put that wall text together. There are also reading aids of where the information came from. It was something that was researched and folks put in a great deal of work to do it. Jos fathers information, im sure one of my museums has if not the book, they are definitely commemorating that story, whether it is the oral history if they are not, you and i need to have a conversation afterwards to make sure that this is done correctly. As far as Voting Rights are concerned and what we are doing there, we make it a point when you go to our museums, you will see artifacts about what has happened throughout history for voting, what has happened in these communities, something that is really simple, what is happening right now . There are tons of something that we would call paraphernalia out there, signs going up of who people are supporting, Kamala Harris is the first africanamerican vp i would not be surprised and im not going to say that it is a surprise, i know it might museum folks are saying, i need that because im going to need that to put that again, legally, nobody is stealing it off peoples lawns, they are not going around at the end of the night when everyone is asleep grabbing these signs, but i know they are gathering this information and putting it in their exhibits. Doing the same thing with all the protests, whether it is a national protest, or in their states, this was something happening in their state, they are grabbing that information and these protests, all the movements that have been happening it seems like it has been going on for 10 years with black lives matter but i know it hasnt. I know for a fact that our race for equality has been going on since i feel like we came here. Since we were stolen and brought over here. Way over 400 years where we have been struggling to gain equality. I say all that to say, over 400 years everything did not just happen in virginia. I have to say this disclaimer, i dont want anybody to come for me after this. Not taking 1619 or any of that research away, but we also have to know that africanamericans were here before then. In saying all that, the collections are in the museums and what is happening now is going to be part of what our museums are doing. It is going to be virtual for a little bit, but you are right. I should say that the site is one of our members. We have what you guys have. [laughter] we have a question for jo coming from laura. I have done one pilgrimage thing around the white supremacist murder in 1966. Are the people who organized that connected to the heritage area effort and more generally for everybody else, what is the will of Public Private partnerships to get the money we need to sustain this work we need . My students in public history believe that government should lead but the resources are usually not there. I know some private entities use voting by its history as more political than desegregation. Do you want to take that . Jonathan daniels pilgrimage is sponsored by the episcopalian church. It is done annually and it is not connected with anything governmental. It is not funded by anyone other than the episcopalians and donations. And for general information, a congresswoman from alabama is in the house of representatives and has introduced the hr 5989, and we are hoping for passage of that bill this year, if circumstances lead us to have to restart the effort, we will be up again in 2021, so stay tuned. If youve got any interest in that exactly, you can go right there, congress. Gov to keep track of the legislation. Because we are dealing with legislation, you may have to cover your park service badge. I wanted to, as we get towards the end of this panel, i wanted to ask each of you to take a moment and talk to us about what Voting Rights means to you. We have had a little bit of the history, the interpretation and preservation, but as a concept, when someone mentions the concept of Voting Rights, here on wednesday, september 30 in the year 2020, what does Voting Rights mean for you . We will start with jo. I have had a lot of heartache in terms of when i think of Voting Rights just because america was supposedly founded on democracy. The right to vote should be according to everyone. There would not be efforts to suppress voting. Yet everywhere we go, the efforts exist. The other thing that concerns me is that then i want to refer back for a minute a building has one little room recognizing tent city but it does not have any of the names of the people of tent city, the people who lived in tent city, none of those people are recognized. Therefore, that history is not being taught to our children. They need to know what blacks went through to get the right to vote. That is a big concern of mine. We always should have some interest in what is going on. That is a history that is not being recorded and nothing tangible that our children can see to recognize what happened. The other thing is, when will the people in america decide to honor this commitment to the principles . Following up on that, a comment from massachusetts, we need to keep educating in all schools, following up under point. Ajena, your thoughts . Voting rights, to me, means so much because of our own Family History. When i was five years old, my big cousin steve started telling me, you need to vote, you need to make sure when you grow up, you vote. You might think that would have been lost on a little kid but it wasnt. I voted every chance i can get and i brought my son with me when he was about six to the polls and now my son is running for city council in richmond. He drew a picture of us going to the polls when he was in fourth grade. I created programs, i started delving into my ancestorshistory and found out that one of my ancestors was killed because they were trying to suppress the vote in the area. So i know deeply that the power and the right to vote is critical. It is so important for us to exercise that right, to make sure that we can change things. Maggie walker was saying, things economically will not change unless women got the right to vote. One of her speeches from 1912. It was identified way back then, identified as soon as the right was granted constitutionally. We cannot sit down and sit back. It is too important. Thank you. Vedet, Voting Rights, what does it mean to you . That is a loaded question. I just have one word. Mandatory. Much like ajena, i remember when i was little, my mom was like, you are going to vote. I dont care who you are going to vote for, but you are going to vote. All my life, she would tell me what to do but this time, she did not tell me who i need to vote for. I was like, that doesnt make sense, now you want to be quiet . But what she was showing me was your right to vote is your personal decision, what you have to do is vote. Then we went to the polls as soon as i turned 18 and i was able to do it, the lines were not as long as they are now, but we stood in line and i casted my vote and the rest is history. I make it a point to tell everybody who can listen that it is mandatory. People literally died for us to have this right. People are still dying for us to have this right and it might not look like that, it might not look like folks are dying because of not being because of voters rights, but that is what it is. If you are locking people up and giving them the death sentence or locking people up and taking away their rights to vote, it is just mandatory. I also teach parttime and i make sure to tell my students, this is your right. Please. It is one of those things, you have a right and you abuse it or you have a right and you dont use it. Abuse this one, please. On the good side. Go to the polls dont abuse people, but abuse the right to vote. We need that. It is mandatory. I know i put a bunch of words after that. It was a good panel, so i want to make sure to give you guys what you want so i can be invited back. [laughter] all of you came in under your word count and we are in under our time count as well. One of the things that the Voting Rights issue strikes in me is this notion that history is going on today and maybe this summer, this odd year with the racial reckoning, black lives matter, it is making it clear that history is not something that was in 1893 or 1976, it was five minutes ago and being here in washington, d. C. And experiencing some of the things we have seen over the last couple months since the murder of george floyd has made my colleagues abundantly aware of the fact that as we continue to protect the historic and Cultural Resources that the park service manages, it is not all about the civil war and it did not stop in 1878. We are looking to continue to be good partners with our community partners, with our museum partners, and with our friends and colleagues in the association for the study of africanamerican life and history. I want to thank sister natonda duncan. She might be able to get some sleep. This woman has been entering emails at 3 30 in the morning and 4 30 in the afternoon and being a great steward and partner for all of this. Devon ferguson, also help set this up. I cant end this without giving a shout out to sylvia cyrus, the executive director of the association of the study of africanamerican life and history, and the president , evelyn brooks, who continues to do great work in promoting and protecting the africanamerican experience. Im alan spears. Please look us up at www. Npc a. Org. Npca also stands for the National Police canine association, so make sure you get the right npca. Sister nat turn it back over to you. Thank you. So glad to be here, and so excited to talk a little bit about brother when frauds excellent book so i want to jump into my comments and doctor winford is practically informant work. And you talk about the civil rights period. This is a trenchant work, and in this work, he places John Hervey Wheeler in the center of this. And casting a new light, on the 20th century. And the central argument of this work is that wheeler, exemplified his work as a businessman, that stood at the middle of the freedom struggle. Something that is under analyze, and continues to be under on under analyze that way. And overlook due to the emphasis on the incendiary movement of the situation and the panel of events. Now im on this panel because i studied history. And i can speak to the ways in which his book is making a significant intervention here, in the history not only in the civil rights history, but the moment and the movement and the black movement in North Carolina in particular. So from wheelers point, he occupied it concentric space. He wasnt insider and power player, who also understood the calculus of social change. And dictated the pursuit of freedom, and im going to knock around one of these things with doctor winford, in terms of the dynamic interplay, that we see with wheeler and the ways hes trying to move and navigate in the middle of the 20th century. So in his book, well talk about how it embodies the limits of social change. So this is a much needed contribution, to the historiography of the black freedom fight. Both North Carolina and the larger region. And again lots and lots of pockets of scholarship, and i say this is very much in the process, of connecting the tissue. When it comes to the civil rights view, when it comes to the role of activism, and bankers and businessmen, and the way in which these roles merged, and de merged and in any particular moments. Because of his influence, we continue in the business of politics and business, you can find him in several essays and monographs, and to be sure when can accurately tell the movement of the story in the state, and we cant tell it without mentioning wheeler and his many accomplishments. But this is been no substitute, for an indepth historical analysis, both in the state and the nation. Brendans book, it fills a significant gap in the historical literature. In addition to reintroducing scholars, wheeler the book eliminates, the under analyzed relationship between black economic institutions, and the larger mainstream evolution of black freedom in the nation and North Carolina in particular. This book also does the crucial work, of cracking the institutional history, that serves as important reminder of the role that farmers and other black economic institutions played in the region. So, brandon displays, a solid command of the sources as his disposal, and i needed the wheeler papers when i was working on my book greater freedom. So im green with envy, that brandon was able to access these papers, and he does a great job of using thewheeler papers, and that really comes out and shines through in his book. So the presentation, of the material is thoughtful and thorough and he is clearly spent a good deal of time, with wheeler. He sued with these sources, and it shows in the work. I think hes produced a work, that would be essential reading. For anyone doing research or writing on civil rights in North Carolina, and again his insights on the perils and prospects, on change. And the one that wheeler possess, it comes to an understanding of the necessity, including more studies like this one, that often under analyze to historical intersections. But he didnt brilliantly in this book. His writing style is accessible, and wheeler story is humane and critical facts. I could go on and on about this book, and i appreciate, your contribution brendan, to this book and i think its important for me to point out, that john wheeler, was a graduate of morehouse college. Thats important to point out. But the question, and some of the takeaways in the things im looking forward to tracking it up, and talking with you and brother peril and our guests, and you talk about the nature of activism. You referred to black business activism. Im always curious, about how people are thinking through, and thinking about what activism can and should look like. Right in particular moments. So im curious about how your thinking, now that the book has been out for a little while. How you are thinking and how that has matured and evolved when it comes to how you are thinking about activism and the type of activism, that we either try to engage in. I think about the late great who was one of my professors and mentors under the jeans of North Carolina and civil rights history. He was a titan in the field. And the type of his book, the perils and prospects of southern black leadership. And that phrase, perils and prospects, that is a phrase that knocks around my mind a lot when i read your work. Just in terms of, again the perils and the benefits and the highlights and the rewards associated with wheelers style, and his brand of leadership. Also his theory of change. So im curious about, what you see in wheelers time, as the perils and prospects of the style of leadership, but inroads is he able to make in his struggle to freedom. And his actions have changed, and to look from our Vantage Point here in 2020. And the other question, and the question we can knock around, is maybe a central notion of wheelers, and he pokes it all for the folks in the movement, and one of the Central Operating ideas is that central this that racism was bad for business. The south cannot move forward, lizza autonomous unit, without dressing interest in white supremacy. Without addressing ways of the setbacks of racism, an all manner of institutions. Its that simple notion, the eradication of racism, and the active combatted chisholm of racism, and how that will move us forward. And racism is bad for business. So it begs the question right, so what if its great for business . What if racism, is actually making us really really profitable . What if it is not in fact bad for business. How do we contend with both the persistence, and the profitability that it raises in his moment. Weve seen this with the urban renewal, and that controversy, like an wheelers time. How do we contend with these realities, in his moment. But how do we contend with those realities, in this moment right. In terms of thinking about your work, and putting your work you know with the amount of Breonna Taylors work in, housing and thinking about the relationship that you have, and the relationship activists have to the intractable nature of white supremacys. And the different analysis that we can produce when we think differently about that dynamic. Then finally, what does progress look like . You talk a lot about the book, about progress and this is a very dynamic, so it isnt look like . Is it simple . We move from progress being, simple representation. I should say simple but, representation is a complicated thing right. So to remove that two instances of, trying to make and sustain, fundamental structural, change. So the nature of progress. How can and should be used sliced in the effort to secure greater freedom. Thats a great look, im looking to talk to all of you about it. No it it is my great pleasure, to be participating in this roundtable, and i have to say this, and it will make me look like an old head, but i remember back in the day, meeting brandon, at an association for the study of African American life and, knowing at that point when i met him, we will be at this point, in the not so distant future. And ive had a lot of respect for him, and as it makes us feel a bit more secure to know that the future, of the historical profession, and the black experience is in good hands. So brother mckinneys comments, were profound and insightful, in perspective that i hope that what i offer, dovetails with most of what he said. Im not an expert in history of African Americans in North Carolina, my comments are a bit broader, but i was thinking deeply, to brother bikinis questions and comments, they got me thinking about a whole host of stuff. Make me want to go back and reread the book myself. So good the well researched book, uses wheelers life, as a point of departure. For exploring a possibility, of what black leadership entailed in the gym crow south. North carolina, and more specifically interim. The scholarship contributes to several overlapping its geographies, and historical some fields as professor mckinney pointed out. Including black Business History, African American biography, the history of the black south, and the history of the Civil Rights Movement belong one. I thoroughly enjoy reading winfords book, as i would classify as being a intellectual and political of wheeler. He wore different hats, he was a president , ivanka educator, power broker, as he was on the president s activity on. A businessman, a lawyer in a civil rights activist, and like professor mckinney, i could go on and on. He was in essence, a universal performer who was involved in seamless and countless movements and struggles and monumental events. And local and National Organizations. For close to five decades. His rise to fame, began in the air of the great depression. And im embarrassed that i was not aware of his contributions before reading his book. The role of black businesses during the Civil Rights Movement, need to be reconceptualize by historians. He maintains that quote, if we are fully to understand how central economics, the central rights movement. And wheeler and his civil rights agenda, provides an instructive case study for this. When fred is old school, in his approach to interpreting and framing history. And im a fan of this approach. He explains, in a straightforward narrative, style how wheeler had set things in the past. Same time, he introduces a few concepts. Including the notion of, new south prosperity, and the business activists. Such concepts, will be looked at a future historian, that look at black African American leaders. The study looks at wheelers upbringing, Family History and early years. And in order to demonstrate how he was socialize, in a career of banking, law politics and civil rights activism. Few further conceptualizing his future endeavors, winford offers a history of black businessmen interim, and the evolution of the Durham Committee on equal affairs. He highlights his role, for black education and equality and desegregation in North Carolina, from the era of world war ii, to the modern Civil Rights Movement. He situate wheelers contribution, to several landmark discrimination lawsuits during the period. His discussion, of versus durham, will reading about wheelers litigation strategies, when fred overviews the 1957 sitting movement interim, as example of student activism, while impacting wheelers activism. He demonstrates that during the peak word years, wheeler supported student activists, adopted a unique approach. Often operating in his own ways behind the scenes. The nuanced manner in which when fred describes wheelers disposition and approach, remind me some of someone of booker ty washington. It winford suggests that wheeler, especially as the member of the president s equal opportunity, and the council, used his political influence, to challenge employment discrimination to fight for African American Voting Rights, and for African American but a power. According to winford, wheeler helped the black community, by supporting low income housing, and also challenging white owned banks, to democratize their practices. Then winford acknowledges, his support of profit projects, had a short coming. His brand of black business attractive, ism did not always benefit African Americans. Symbolized in the naming of the in durham, and that was after wheeler, his work is much more than account of an under acknowledgment of black leaders life an accomplishment. Well he certainly tells us everything that i think we need to know about wheelers time on earth, he places wheeler within the historical context, any points how this leader evolved during his life, and he reveals how wheeler interacted with his contemporaries and local and National Policy makers. Will import while doing so, when fridge and brandon, should pitfalls of again he addresses the five seas of historical thinking. He demonstrated the ability to think critically and creatively, and tries to understand why his subjects thought and acted in the manner they did. The final word on wheeler, is most likely not yet been written. As one season biographer has remarked, the notion of a definitive biography, is a fictitious. But, one thing remained certain, in my mind. Future historians and scholars, who seek to explore wheelers life and work, well be will have to use when fronts book as a starting point. He is the leading authority on this historical figure. And i believe he has set a high bar. A thank you so much, theres not much i can add, but more superlatives. So the striking toned cover, of brandon when france biography, captures an austere and dignified john her vape wheeler. His head slightly cocked, and off to the side. Wheeler spent much of his professional life, with the African Americanowned place where hes bank where he start as a bank teller, and worked his way up to Bank President by the early 19 fifties. Engage in backroom racial diplomacy, and frontline battles for economic and civil rights in his book doctor winford uncovers wheelers pivotal role and civil rights struggle from the 19 fifties to the 1970s and in similar ways to a generation of social and cultural historians, influence indeed yet being emancipated by the movements of black freedom, in the 20th century. These historians transform, as this. Dr. Winford makes an important comment in the scholarship, that takes a harder look into the economic dimensions of the Civil Rights Movement. These reconsiderations, are occurring in the response to the unmistakable push from the sources, to pay closer attention to how activists put their money, where their mouths were. And to the insistent poles untangled routes of economic equality in our present time. The achievements of the Civil Rights Movement, in terms of removal of barriers, access to education, voting and public spaces, that stands in stark contrast to the persistent wealth gaps, and Economic Security and lack of wellbeing, that continue to plague African American communities. So in addition to reassessing the movements success, on questions of Economic Justice, scholars are rethinking the roles of African American business leaders. Traditional narratives, often judge the business elite, as conservative and resistant to social change, which means they capitulated to white power structures and defended racial segregation, because of their dependence on African American consumers. But doctor when fred, complicates this onedimensional a sense mint. Revealing the complex engagements, with the u. S. Political economy. His work explodes the simplistic binarys, of accommodation and protests of civil rights of the power. Doctor winford offereds, as my other colleagues have said, it meticulously detailed thoroughly researched book, with revelatory insights. With treacherous racial class and economic train, and that wheeler had in the civil rights struggle. The biography reveals the multiple ways, the African American elites argue for the Critical Role of Economic Justice and the fight for greater inclusion and not just u. S. Society, but also for the economy. So both doctor winford and i, have spent more than a decade working on remarkable black business leaders. Passionate, committed, social activists and complicated human beings. So for me, its walker. First black woman president Bank President. And of course wheeler. Neither of us, cant deny the extraordinary of the people who have ignited our animations. I want to share with the round table, and with those watching something about the extraordinaryness, of my scholar brother brandon. Brandon is the consummate professional, if anyone knows him. So in late 2014, when i began looking for contributors, as cohen editors of a special issue on African American business. A special issue for the journal of African American history, a colleague told me about brandon. And she really reminded me about brandon. We had crossed paths a couple of times, and branded made a point always, to stay in touch and to meet up for coffee, i conferences and over the years we have shared our work. He comes with these fabulous ideas, of workshops and he sends me incredible pictures of sources, and we dream about our future collaborations. In closing i am reminded of one spirited, change that we have a little while back. About a popular book, that will be nameless and i remember telling brandon, that was missing from his work, was a recognition of a respect for the creative ways that black people, worked around white supremacy. And all the forces and voices that told no you will not succeed. And i wrote, text that you need to love black people, if you are going to talk about how they dreamed of the possibility of freedom. And i can say on equivocally, that brandons love of black people, is so wide, so long, so high and so deep. I tell you we are not ready, for what he has in store for us, and how he will transform and push forward, the wheels of black Business History in the new millennium. And so, i do want since we have a bit of time, i do want to give doctor winford, a chance to maybe address some of the comments, of the other panelists. So doctor mckinneys questions, about the nature of black business activism, what is progress look, like what you know about racism is a good for business. And to address the other issues that you may want to. Okay thank you good afternoon, thank you all for attending today. First let me thank the person for proposing the panel and putting it together. And ive been impressed with these month long virtual conferences. And i really learned so much over the last few weeks. Im especially glad to be a part of this club roundtable. And let me also say, and thank my roundtable panelists. Dr. Scott mckinney, and i can really sort of put into words, how thankful i have been for their encouragement and support through the years. Reading my work, and really always sharing their wisdom, and some really good advice and i have longed admired their work and also the last point, that was made their examples and selfless scholars, and that stands out to me right. Scholar stands out, and those examples of what it means to be a scholar, and what it means to the have the love of black people. But something really stands out. But i want to take a moment to answer some of the questions, posed by people and i will speak to some of the critical points today. And so, i will begin to talk about the sources, an access to sources. So i initially, inquired about the john willard papers in 2006, thats when i inquired about the John Hervey Wheeler papers. So thats where the library, made the papers available to me, but i had these note taking, i couldnt take images, i can take photocopies and when they were processed and i came back to it, you know the transition i got lost and you know i didnt where it was. So that was a real great process in that it forced me to digest the materials and to make decisions about what i can take notes on. What can i cross reference and other collections across the country . So it really sort of made me work from that standpoint. I really got to know these sources from that standpoint. For people interested in this kind of work, black business and civil rights, there are 109 linear feet of materials in the john wheeler papers. Indeed, what pero said was this is not the last word of john wheeler. This is a crime of what is possible from the john wheeler collection. What we can see about him and his academic career, and more what can be said more broadly about bike business. Im excited about the projects that will come out of the jon wheeler papers. So i want to sort of address this critical point, this question about the changing nature of activism. John wheeler, when he begins his activism in the 1940s and afterwards, this is amid the naacps legal strategy. He comes in at a particular moment. He goes to law school in the 1940s and sort of looks that the possibilities of himself being a lawyer thats critical in this sort of post war period. One of the things he often said, and particularly talking about sort of generational transference of leadership, is he often said that those black leaders who came before him, they had to be very careful. They had to be careful in how they approached and dealt with the white leadership. They had to basically walk a fine line because they did not have the kind of legal redress that later civil rights activists would have. So they had to be very careful because it was danger in sort of asserting Citizenship Rights for African Americans at the time. He understood this very much so. So when i think about his idea of the changing nature of activism, i think about it in terms of how jon wheeler sort of looked at the changing nature of activism. He kind of articulated the struggle for civil rights as in certain phases. He talked about the legal phase, the reaction phase, then he talked about the implementation phase. One could argue that with the implementation phase, it was something that he felt that was more challenging, because thats when you begin to sort of challenge institutionalized racism and really sort of access resources in terms of whatever gun americans could get. So when we talk about the changing nature of leadership, i think his activism was as much in response to the strategies that were necessary, and also the ways in which strategies could you could build on strategies. Right . I think within that context, he sort of looked at it from that standpoint. I think he understood that, as time moved forward and a certain strategies sort of came to their and, one had to find other ways. I think thats why hes so engage in student activism during the 1960s. This because foundational. The prospects of southern black leadership. A foundational text for my work in trying to really understand ideas about generational transference of leadership. How to write biography and how to sort of engage ideas, really sort of how do you think about someone who doesnt really fit in a box. I really talk about him getting outside of this box. I got a lot of feedback from folks who encouraged me not to think about john wheeler as this radical, as this moderate. He did not like those kinds of terms. He did not like the term black moderate. So once i began sort of thinking about him outside of that box, i really could understand his sense of activism. He wasnt necessarily beholden to a kind of activism. He was interested in strategies that would help them work toward his larger goals of economic rights drafted for African Americans, citizenship as a pathway to black economic power. That was important for this idea of new south prosperity. I will Say Something for the question and answering, but two peros point of this not being the last word of John Hervey Wheeler or black business. One of the things im dealing more with in transitioning from john wheeler as a banker, im becoming more interested in the questions about how do we consider and think about black businesses and black banks and black businesses on their own terms . We talk about the limitations on access to the larger marketplace. Im interested in looking at them on terms. Im looking im interested in customers. Im interested in employees. Im interested in the community. What happens with Community Inside a bank . When you engage this site of Economic Life for African Americans . Part of that ongoing conversation deals with that. In my comments right there, because i know we are running short on time, so im looking forward to the q and a if we have time. We do. We have two questions. Just in the interest of time, im going to give you both questions, so that way you can answer them both. If we get another one, i will let you know. The first question is from janice mills. Im going to read the question and then perhaps explained what i think it is that she is asking. So shes asking should the blacks show empathy for the new financially struggling experimental u. S. If we were given a after the American Revolution . With the u. S. Be more or less vulnerable to britain if the enslaved were given equality or expense free trip back to africa . When i think that what miss mills is asking is a question about how should blacks kind of look at the current kind of financial picture of the country . Really tying that back to the legacies of slavery and kind of missed opportunities for African Americans. How should African Americans i think perhaps see the United States political economy nationally and globally . Then we have another question from kendra boyd. She says, i really enjoyed reading the book. Can you talk a little bit more about wheelers relationship with his wife and how she influenced his activism . With the first question, its a really sort of complicated question. One of the things i will one of the ways i will answer it is this. I like to think of this post civil war period and the way i like to think about it is ideas of economic emancipation. Shennette in her book does a good job of giving us this economic sense, this transition from slavery to freedom. One of the things we often do not think about is the ways we look at reconstruction. We look at it as exercising or becoming this sense of political democracy. Right . You talk a lot about politics and things of that nature. One of the things we tend not to talk about is this idea of how Something Like reconstruction was sort of economic democracy. Looking at the ways in which African Americans had an economic understanding of their freedom from their very beginning. Its important for us to sort of understand with our own ideas about Economic Freedom and independence and the best way to go about achieving those possibilities. I like to use a term that we really have a sense that our country and institutions, we were all sort of living paycheck to paycheck. In this moment, things like covid, police brutality, all of that is showing us the limitations of capitalism. The fact that there were no systems in place to help sustain us in this moment of crisis. Right . When i think about African Americans in economic positioning, weve seen some of where we are today. We think about the cost of this moment. So i think there are lessons in strategies from these entrepreneurs. Even what is happening today. We are creating other kinds of strategies to maneuver economically around our traditional systems. Thats one way im kind of thinking about that question. In terms of kendras question, i think its a really good question. His wifes father was one of the founders of. When they got married, jon wheeler when he went to ask for her man in marriage, her father told her she was not going to sit at home. So when they got married, it was an understanding that she was going to set about moving forward in her career as much as he was going to move forward in his career. So she becomes this librarian. She sort of preserves African American culture and literature as the head of the Black Library. One of the things that she was able to do in that sense is to put together a forum for African Americans to come and discuss works and authors. She set up things like a book mobile. So she kind of, in her career, she sort of moved the Black Library toward a sense of maternity. She really sort of positioned it to become a part of the city library system. In terms of her sort of activisms separate of john wheeler, she was very involved in womens organizations in durham. She was during the 1960s, she was pivotal in ensuring that student activists had facilities where they could strategize, but also where they could just sort of take a break. Shes very much in a parallel, sort of running parallel to John Hervey Wheeler. Im sorry to interrupt you, i think we got a proper sense of her activism. But now i actually have three more questions. Okay, go ahead. You have to stop me, as you know. Sorry. [laughs] we have a question from devin vargas. He actually asks three questions. I will pick just one, but im sure that you can talk with him afterwards. I will ask his last question, which is how does the book color of money parallel a diverge when it comes to your understanding of wheeler in particular and with the mechanics and farmers bank institutionally . Then i will jump in with the other key questions. Its a really smart book. One of the things it is more of, it is a legislative history of impact of the field of banking on black Economic Life. More so than it ever is a history of black banking. It does a lot of Public Policy. In that, i think she provides some of the history of black business and black banking, its not in detail, but then she sort of skips over black banking. The nuances. The ways in which the black bank and where those banks actually were in existence, they made impacts on African American communities. Churches and schools, black home ownership. I think that conversation gets overlooked because we are thinking so much about the comparative analysis of where African American banks, and by 1959, the combined resources of African American banks was about 48 million dollars. We tend to think about the failure limitation a black banking outside of the context of understanding them on their own terms. Its a really smart book. Its really good about Public Policy and legislative history of banking and its impact on black Economic Life. Also, it doesnt really do that much when it comes to black banking in the south. Thats what im really interested in. By 1910, the majority of African American banks were in operation in the south. So i think theres a lot we can do about having that conversation about that broader history. All right. Great. We have another question from wanda williams. She asks did wheeler favor activisms that targets Financial Independence in the form of strengthening the still untapped black consumer strength over rights obtained via legislative channels . Im going to join that with the question from dr. Margaret bristo, with asking about how wheeler addresses black wealth in light of the fact that blacks spend less than 5 on black businesses. I so those are two questions about the role of buying black and white economic rights look like. Right. I think those are really good questions. One of my big points of the book, and folks like julia walker and shennette and others have really pointed out theres a sense that African American businesses that were successful benefited from segregation. So they were not so much interested in the integration. If you look at john wheeler and his examples and the ways in which he discusses economic rights, its the exact opposite. He believed that blackowned institutions, his bank in particular, were limited in their possibilities. Limited to a specific clientele, African American customers. Even in that, they still had to compete with white men. They did not have an exclusive lock on black customers and black i tell. His activism clientele. His activism was very much in line with what was going to happen to black institutions with the coming of integration. So he was very much interested in tapping a larger marketplace. That was in order to expand his bank. He believed his bank could compete with when any white owned bank of comparable size. In that, there is this question about also what segregation was going to do to these institutions. He understood this particular impact and the possibilities of black institutions declining post integration. And he was in integration honest in terms of his framework. One of the things that was really important is that integration had to be worked out. And that, he did not see black institutions, whether were talking about schools or churches and so forth, businesses, he did not see the decline or the end of blackowned institutions. He felt that with integration, blackowned institutions would be strengthened. I will leave it there. But in practice, that wasnt necessarily the case. What he really was serious about the ways in which integration had to be worked out. It wasnt about abandoning blackowned institutions were whiteowned institutions at all. We have two more questions and i will just give them both to you. They actually dovetail on what weve been talking about. Kimberly jordan talks about her family and how her family thanked at the bank. They were occasionally say members of the same country club. But she is saying she never heard him refer to as a civil rights leader. Shes asking do you consider wheelers making the black middle class more accessible to black people a kind of activism . So a class question. Then the last question will be from vincent window who asks, how did leaders like wheeler leverage their memberships in fraternal organizations like prince all masons . Really great questions. The way that i sort of like to, and its really question because part of it is wheeler is a banker. He was in a leadership position politically in durham. He let the durham communion affairs. There are a lot of instances where things did not go his way. People challenged him and he used the fact that he was a banker. He had the money badge. Right . So i think thats really important as we sort of understand the limits of black leadership. But i also have to think about his role in black educational a lot equality. His role in Voting Rights for African Americans. There are some things that definitely and also from the preview of his middle class status. He does not actually have to do what he is doing as a business activist. One of the things you often said is he, within the confines of segregation, he said he always felt that he was already part of american society. He was free to do what he wanted to do and go where he wanted to go. So for him as a business person, someone who is part of the black middle class coming from atlanta to durham, to take the kind of action role that he actually ended up taking was in and of itself a kind of boldness. Part of the ways we have to look at these figures as we do have to think in more complicated ways. We do have to think about class. We have to think about gender. But i also think that we have to sort a get outside of what these leaders should be within the structures of class, within those particular dynamics. I think we can better understand their motivations when we kind of do that. Thats kind of one way that im thinking about that particular question. In terms of his memberships, he was a member of so many organizations. I will just sort of end here. This is kind of a criticism and a limitation in many ways, he was beholden to institutions. In other words, is go to strategies were the legal approach, organized pressure through organizations, and also being a part of the political process. It was very much important. He was part of the democratic party. He had some positions within the state. So all of those organizations that he was a part of, he used, those were part of a civil rights agenda. He leveraged his influence in all those organizations to impact his ideas about citizenship. The ways in which that sort of interconnected with his ideas of black economic power. And ultimately, new south prosperity. Right. Thank you so much. Thank you to the panelists and for all of the great questions. Thank you all very much. I appreciated those comments. Thank you for the questions because those questions are going to be used toward my next book as well. Definitely, really good questions, thank you all. Northern mexico is especially important to spain because of the very rich silver mines. France was over to the northeast and louisiana. It had reached up to the Northern Borders of new spain along the red river where it was causing some trouble with the indians and looking straight across the empty reaches of texas into the silver mines down there. The spaniards knew they had to have some sort of defense. They came up on san antonio. So in 16 18, 302 years ago, san antonio was established here. First challenge they faced was getting water. The first things the priest did when they set up a Community Like this was to build a church. The second thing they did was to set up a water system. In texas, you have rivers, but you dont really have a lot of green fertile areas too far away from them. To address that, they drew from their experience in spain, which had come from arabia, which had actually come from the roman empire. A system of irrigation ditches. They were not just irrigation ditches, but they also finished Drinking Water and water for the cattle and everybody else. Everybody use the same water and no one knew anything about germs and then they wondered why they would have epidemics, but eventually figured it out. San antonio was selected in large part because it had two major sources of water upstream. We had the headwaters of the San Antonio River and we had the headwaters of sand pedro creek. So from those places, engineers very carefully, because the land was rather flat, they were able to devise a system of half a dozen irrigation ditches which came from those rivers and came through channels that followed the line of gravity downhill through what became san antonio and then back into the river. The water continues to flow. San antonio used that system for more than 100 years. It wasnt until the end of the 19th century that the acequias system was no longer in general use. But there still are two acequias at the Spanish Missions. They are still used by area farmers to water their crops. Religion has a very visible role in the community in addition to what you do not see. You have main plaza, the cathedral of san fernando, which began in 1731 as the paris church. But we also have five missions in san antonio which are now named a World Heritage site. We have our first mission, the alamo, which began i right here in the city of san antonio. Four years later, there was a Second Mission established which was mission san jose. It has been restored rather elaborately and its the largest and most Successful Mission in texas. Three of the missions actually moved from north texas to san antonio. They are scattered along the San Antonio River south of downtown. The largest of them is Mission Essential own, which is the largest, the church itself is the largest unrestored church in the Spanish Church and the United States. We also have two smaller ones. Mission San Francisco and mission sent juan. That gives us five missions, which is the largest grouping of Spanish Missions in the United States. Texas was very desirable for its geography and its location. As a lot of borderlands are, the control went back and forth between various governmental entities. I would suspect that citizens got whiplash in the early 19th century. There was six different governments in san antonio. Up until the 18 twenties, there was first spain. In 1821 there was a revolution in which mexico to control. Then came the republic of texas, the revolution of 1836, which related to the element. Then we have the republic of texas. Then in 1845, texas was annexed by the United States. In 1861, we had the confederacy in charge. Then four years later, we were back to the United States. Probably the single factor that shaped san antonios character was the isolation on the texas frontier. We are a few hundred miles from the texas coast. The only way to reach san antonio was by ox car from the coast, and that took a few days when it wasnt raining and there wasnt mud. It was a very difficult city to get to until san antonio finally got a railroad in 1877. At that point, san antonio began to explode. The Tourism Business was one of the first to take off because san antonio had been a familiar topic of magazines and other publications in periodicals in the United States. Reporters would love to come to san antonio and report what it looked like. There was great awareness of this. This did not completely please people in houston where the railroad came from. After the railroad came, one newspaper over there reported that hordes of people went to san antonio for a day to people around and then come back and tell everyone how queer the city looked. And it did, it did. That was a big attraction then and it has still become an attraction now. San antonio is probably three hours from the mexican border. However, the proximity to mexico has been very beneficial to san antonio long term because of immigration. When the mexican revolution began in 1910, there was so much violence that the mexican citizens, many of them began crossing the rio grande and coming up into texas. They were settled in refugee cramps camps and tens of thousands of them came to san antonio. For many of years, they live in the port center of town. As generations went on, they became leading citizens in the community. Henry can solace was our first hispanic congressman in the 1950s. That has really help make san antonio the type of place it is today. I think it would be important for people to realize as they learn about san antonio, simply to understand what a distinctive and diverse city san antonio is. How significant its roots are in history and how much it has contributed to the history of the country