Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Contenders Hubert Humphrey 20240712

History tv. Every weekend on cspan3 explore our nations past. Cspan3, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. [shouting] mr. Chairman, my fellow mr. Chairman, my fellow americans, my fellow democrats, i proudly accept the nomination of our party. [ cheers and applause ] this moment, this moment is one of personal pride and gratification. Yet one cannot help but reflect the deep sadness that we feel over the troubles and the violence which have erupted regrettably and tragically in the streets of this great city, and for the personal injuries which have occurred. Thats Hubert Humphrey accepting the 1968 democratic nomination for president where the democrats had gathered for their convention in the midst of the vietnam war while thousands of protesters demonstrated outside. He was unsuccessful for president in 1968 and hes the focus of this weeks Contenders Program. Were live from minnesotas History Center. Mick colette just finished a documentary last year, and were standing in the middle of an exhibit that the exhibit has put out about 1968. To start our discussion, set the stage for people, as 68 dawned, this country was in an uproar at the vietnam war. The war had been running for a long time at that point, probably 15 years. The tet offensive at the end of january set the stage for the year because it was obvious to everyone then that the war was not being won and the North Vietnamese reached all the way to the American Embassy in saigon, president johnsons Approval Ratings just plummeted and mccarthy had been in the race in the fall. Bobby kennedy was joining the race and it was just utter chaos at that point. And then, of course, right after president johnson resigned in the 29th of march, three days later Martin Luther king was assassinated. The beginning of that first part of the year was terrible chaos. It was a year when people who were alive were turning on their radios every morning and there was another huge story every day. Were going to begin to try to tell that story in the context of Hubert Humphreys campaign for president. Well be here two hours, and well learn more about the history of the times and partway into it well begin taking telephone calls. Whats important for young people to understand is that whats different about the wars we fight today and the vietnam war is the draft. So this was real in a sense for American Families in a very different way than the professional army we have today. Will you talk about that . Sure. The draft was really the point at which the protests really started, when the draft was instituted. And really, now people have a choice if people want to enter the military or if theyre against the war, they can stay away. And in those days there was no choice. You either went to canada or did something out of being drafted. Thats really what caused the protests. And the other part of that is that people werent able to vote until they were 21 but they were being drafted at 18. They couldnt even vote the people out of office that were running the war. That was thats probably the biggest difference. Is it fair to say that every American Family had a personal connection to this war in one way or the other . I would say pretty much and some had, you know, too, they had someone who went to the war and someone who was against it in the seam family. Lyndon johnson, robert mcin a mara, his he had antiwar protesters stay at his house. Families were broken over it, much like the civil war, i guess. The other thing that people should understand that made this real in a way that hadnt in wars fought earlier was television, television was bringing it into peoples living rooms every night. Will you talk about the effect of that . Well, it was wide open because nobody had really done any kind of television wasnt restricted. It was all brand new. And so, you know, nobody in the administration or anyone else had any control over it. So, you know, the journalists were just going out there to get whatever they found. We dont have that now. Its much more controlled in the battlefield. We were seeing things in the living room you wouldnt see now, i mean actual battle scenes and people being wounded and that kind of thing and it had a profound effect on the country. And it was another reason why people came out against the war was they started seeing it all the time on tv and 300 body bags were coming back every week at one point and they were showing the body bags and the caskets and it had a profound effect. It changed the average persons mind. We have to remind people that the war started before Lyndon Johnsons term. It was raging for 15 years earlier, with advisers and later as troops were deployed. So rin don johnsons attitude about the war was what . Well, he i think he was confused about it for a long time but he did not want to lose it. It was really important to him to win the war. And he it colored everything he did. People tried to talk about any kind of a settlement and he wouldnt do it. He was interested in winning the war. And once he got into it he didnt have a lot of options. That was the one that he the only one he wanted. He had no other option. He didnt want to and that affected when he left office too. He wanted someone to come into the office that would continue his war policy and wouldnt end the war and make him a loser, basically. Lyndon johnson and Hubert Humphrey became teammates in 1964. Following the assassination of kennedy. When Lyndon Johnson ran in his own right. What was the relationship like and how was this period for senator humphrey . Well, the intensity in vietnam started almost at the exact same time he became Vice President. The tonken gulf resolution, in the summer in vietnam of 64, was there was a resolution in congress that lbj asked for and it was passed and humphrey signed onto that. He wasnt yet Vice President , as did Gene Mccarthy and others and then the convention came later in the summer and humphrey became Vice President. And, you know, he so he walked into the beginning of johnsons real involvement with the war. Campaigned all during the fall and never talked about vietnam in the campaign. It was about Barry Goldwater being trigger happy and humphrey and johnson were the peace candidates and goldwater was the war candidate, basically. And so but vietnam wasnt talked about. They were talking more about nuclear in 64. Yeah, they were talking about Nuclear Annihilation and nuclear war. They won by a landslide, 44 of 50 states. So in the spring, in the early part of the year when they were in office, there was another incident in play cue in vietnam and johnson called a cabinet, sort of an ad hoc cabinet and adviser meeting, and he had already decided to bomb North Vietnam in retaliation and he asked people around the table what they thought of this and everyone pretty much agreed but humphrey said its not a good idea and he backed off and he had written johnson a memo earlier before he was Vice President saying we should not get involved, shouldnt send Ground Troops in, shouldnt bomb, this is not a good idea politically or for the country. He spoke up again at this meeting. Johnson got angry, humphrey went back and wrote another long detailed memo and at that point he was frozen out of any discussion at vietnam. We have two video clips to show you. First is 1964 and remember that Lyndon Johnson had been operating without a Vice President and when he came into office after the kennedy assassination, so there was a great deal of speculation going into the convention about who his choice would be to run in 1964. Here is a film from the 64 convention as Lyndon Johnson announces his choice for Vice President. The next Vice President of the United States, my close, my long time my trusted colleague, senator Hubert Humphrey of minnesota. Democrats and most republicans in the senate voted for education legislation, but not senator goldwater. Most democrats and most republicans in the senate voted to help the United Nations in its Peace Keeping functions when it was in financial difficulty, but not senator goldwater. I couldnt help but think at that particular moment how far weve come, all of the hard work and effort that we put in through those many years, and this was a great moment in my life. Mr. Johnson said in his judgment mr. Humphrey was the best man to be president in case anything happened to him. No longer is the vice presidency just another job. Well, that video we should tell you and much of the video youre going to see tonight is from mick colettes thank you for showing it to our audience. First of all, the scenes of the energetic Hubert Humphrey addressing the crowd and having the crowd eating out of his hands and the cut away to Lyndon Johnson who didnt seem to share the moment. He didnt like the spotlight being taken from him and humphrey is generally believed to be a better public speaker. He was a little bit upset about humphrey taking the show away. He was that way. That was Lyndon Johnson. By the way, the goldwater not senator goldwater part of that speech, it was written by a number of people, it was written by bill moiers. He wrote that back and forth and there was a call and response kind of thing that really kind of caught on. That was an early one, of that kind of speech and worked really well. And call and response . Yeah, not senator goldwater, the crowd responded. It was also senator goldwater excuse me, senator humphrey had ambitions for the presidency for quite a while, toyed with it in 52, made a real bid in 60 and here he was at the convention accepting the Vice President ial nomination. You could see how excited he was in the moment. Hearing the nickname the happy warrior, he loved politics. He loved politics and he got in trouble later for calling it the politics of joy. He was joyful about politics. And he believed it was a way to do better in the country, to change the country and he believed in it in a very innocent and we might think naive way but it was really an innocent way, believed in the country, believed in the American People, one at a time all American People at once, he really believed in our system and that was the way for him to change the country, if he could. Well, another clip, and this is later on in 1974 when Hubert Humphrey was gathering material for his memoir and made audiotapes. He talks a bit, and this is just one example of the relationship you referenced and how it really became very testy between Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey as the administration wore on over vietnam and he reflects on some of the ways way that Lyndon Johnson used the perks of the office to keep his Vice President under control. Lets listen. There wasnt a time that i will ever got a plane that i didnt have to ask for it. And believe me, if anybody would ever tell you that johnson was extravagant, it surely wasnt with his Vice President. Many times he would say to me that it was better to take a smaller plane. He said if you have a plane thats too big there will be too many people want to ride with you. Youll be encumbered with too many people who see that theres an extra seat that hasnt been used. And so from time to time on short trips, particularly up and down the atlantic seaboard i would take king air beech craft king air or queen air, one of the smaller planes that was available or a two engine military plane. For our longer trips we used the jet star. Never within the continental limits of the United States did we ever use air force one or two, that is the fourengine jets, those were reserved only those were to be used by me only for overseas trips. And at no time was i ever permitted to carry, to bring a newspaper man or a person of the media, radio, television or press with me on any trip in the United States. The president forbid it and of course i respected his command and his wish. I gather he felt that the Vice President should be heard and seen, but not reported upon too much. Of course Lyndon Johnson had been the majority leader in the senate when Hubert Humphrey had been serving there, these two men had a long relationship and served in leadership together. Could you talk more about how johnson used the levers of power to control Hubert Humphrey . As i was saying earlier, when he had this argument with johnson about vietnam, johnson shut him out, froze him out at that point for at least a year, about any talk about vietnam or any foreign policy, basically. He cut off his privileges. He shortened his staff. At one point he tapped his phones. And he did a number of things to make to basically control humphrey. And he didnt want him speaking out against vietnam, didnt want him speaking out about anything that johnson might have didnt want him to speak about, basically, wanted to keep him quiet and he had a way of calling them my planes, my boats and he had this johnson did this sort of possessive, you know, kind of attitude about these, as if they were his, and not the American Peoples. So he was very much in control of that, and humphrey dealt with it a lot. There were times when he gave three or four speeches in one week and he had to call and get permission for each plane for each speech during that week. The freeze lasted about a year and then johnson sent him to vietnam. Did Hubert Humphrey talk about how he reacted to this. He was miserable for a long time, during the freeze in particular because johnson was shutting him out of the inner circle. So he was kind of on the outside and he wasnt happy during that time because he wanted to be involved in what was going on. It was a bad time for him. But then he went back, he was sent to vietnam and year later and things changed . 1966. We are going to walk around this exhibit tonight and give you some sense of the exhibit thats been put together here showing the year 1968 with a focus on politics in our stops, and wanted to remind you about your participation, and about the 10, 12 minutes well take telephone calls. If you live in the eastern or central time zones our number 2027370001. If you live in the mountain or pacific time zones the number is 2027370002. We look forward to your comments in this year, 1968, in which Hubert Humphrey was contender for the president of the United States. Walk along with me and well go to our next stop here. How did you first get interested in Huber Humphrey . I grew up here, he was always in the air when i was a kid. And i spent some time working here and saw his archive and the archive was fabulous, for a documentary film maker thats gold mine. The hum trees had four children, are they still here . His daughter is no longer alive, died a couple years ago, his grandson buck is more probably more involved in politics than the others. The sons are basically in sales, all of them, hubert, his skip hubert iii, his son, works for an advertising agency, i believe. None of them are in politics at this point. We are at the exhibit about the politics, the political life of Hubert Humphrey which really was his life. He wasnt born in minnesota. No. Where was he born . In south dakota, 90 miles in the minnesota border into south dakota, one of those Little Railroad towns that dotted the south dakota prairie that went along the prairie and he was born in 1911. It was a remarkable little town. Intellectual ferment going on there. His father was the druggist. His mother was a methodist social gospel person. He got the politics in his fathers drugstores and her social methodist, social gospel kind of feel. He got it from both sides. As bill moyers calls him the great combination of the preacher and the politician, got both sides. He went to Pharmacy School himself. So how did he end up in politics . He went to Pharmacy School largely for a job he always really wanted to be in politics. And he did it in a year, a short time, to help his father with the drugstore but i dont think he ever really wanted to be a pharmacist for life. He ended up getting a doctorate, as i understand in political science. Nope, he got a masters degree at lsu. What were his intentions, why was he studying politics . He was going to get a doctorate and come back to the university of minnesota and get a doctorate and teach and then he was so good at public speaking and so good at communicating a lot of people around him convinced him to run. And deep down, he probably really did want to run. He ended up coming back to minnesota and became mayor of minneapolis. When did he serve and what was the city like then, do you know . He came back from lsu, from the south, is from grad school in 1940. And minnesota had been a republican state and had never elected a democrat to the senate. And the reason why was because the nonrepublics were divided. He built himself his own Political Base and the city was corrupt and bigoted and all kinds of problems with segregation and things. Nation magazine called it the capital of antisemitism in the United States and when he left he got an award from the National Council of christians and jews for what he did. Talk about the dfl, is it still active in Politics Today . Yes. And Hubert Humphrey was really its founder. One of two or three people but he was the greatest negotiator of the group. What does it stand for. Democrat farmer labor party. From an ideological standpoint, how does it distinguish itself from the Democratic Party as a whole . It was a group of farmers and laborers who had probably differences, its a complicated story but they probably had differences with the more professional sort of democrats that were, you know, fdr democrats, they would split there and they just didnt like each other and humphrey was one of the people who finally convinced them that theyre never going to win an election unless they get together. The Democrat Farmer Labor Party at one point had onethird of our legislature. He ran for senate when . He ran for senate . 1948 after the speech. Successfully. Were going to talk more about that speech. But i have a clip from 1960 when he first seriously thought about running for president and this is just one of those joy of being a politician of Hubert Humphrey. Lets watch. How do you think your race is going . Well, like this roller coaster, its been an uphill fight but i think weve been doing quite well. Would you mind telling me what has been the most exciting part of the campaign . Right now. I just had it. Thank you, senator. I tell you, this is good fun. Thank you, sir. Politics ought to be fun. Yes, sir. Vote for hubert. Hubert. Hubert humphrey. The president for you and me. And there we see Hubert Humphrey just enjoying life. Did he bring this to his politics all the time . All the time, yup, that was pretty much the way he ran and he would light up a room. People that met him would say that it would be 11 00 at night and he would get off the plane and work till 3 00 in the morning and everybody was asleep and hed still be like that. He could just run like that constantly. He loved what he was doing. What were some of his other characteristics, he was known for talking a lot. He was also a good listener. People miss that part. He did talk a lot. In his speeches he would come with a prepared speech and put it down and just talk for an hour. He knew a lot about a lot of different subjects. Really intelligent, and an astounding memory. They figured at the time that he maybe knew five to 10,000 people by first name. What a politicians gift to be able to remember names like that. Go to town, meet somebody, come back five years later, remember their name, their familys memory. Were going to take calls and learn more about his political philosophy and how he developed it. First up is kurt in copley, ohio, welcome to our conversation about Hubert Humphrey. Caller thank you, its a Wonderful Program to be participating in. Thank you. Caller youre welcome. And you mentioned 1948, and i remember hearing, and ive watched some of the clips on youtube and on the internet of an actor named Ronald Reagan who endorsed Hubert Humphrey in 1948 for the u. S. Senate. Which were they when you think about it, were they kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum, even though they were both democrats at that time, but also i wanted to find out what Hubert Humphreys relationship was with Barry Goldwater in the u. S. Senate, versus what their private life was like . And also, did Hubert Humphrey and jack kennedy get along very well when they were running against each other for president in 1960 and in 1956 when they actually vied for the Vice President ial nomination to run with governor adlai stevenson, who ultimately they lost to the senator from tennessee. Thank you so much, kurt, first, his relationship with Ronald Reagan. He was a lifelong friend of Ronald Reagans and Ronald Reagan was pretty much the same politics back in those days. He was the head of the actors union, actors guild. He was a democrat, and he was pretty much had the same philosophy as humphrey. Ronald reagan changed humphrey remained the same but they did remain the same all those years and Great Respect for each other. Hubert humphrey and Barry Goldwater, even better friends. They were giving speeches in iowa on the back of a hay wagon on the warm, ripped each other apart in the back to back speeches and someone drove through town later in the day and saw them having dinner together. They were good, good friends. If you could talk in general, kennedy is next, but before we talk about kennedy specifically, about the United States senate, these are the times of very big names of the senators, people recognize the names from history books even today. And was there history books even today. Was there bipartisanship . Did people walk across the aisle . Talk about what the senate was like. Absolutely. It was disagreeing without being disagreeable. That was really what was going on. There was a lot of camaraderie. Humphrey was friends with a lot of republicans, even some of dixiecrats who he differed with. He was friends with some of those people. It was a different and more cordial and i believe there was more camaraderie than there is now. Im not in the senate now, but i can tell you they were pretty close, those people. Jfk and their relationship. Zo zoom. Jfks relationship early in the senate, humphrey they voted together on many of the same bills. Humphrey helped him with farm legislation because he knew nothing about it. Their relationship changed dramatically in 1960 during the election and during the primaries and then the election. In what ways . Well, they fought they had these debates in the election in the primaries in wisconsin and west virginia. And they got to know each other that way. And then when kennedy became president , humphrey gave him many, many of his ideas to use in his administration. And the Washington Post had called humphrey the idea factory for the Kennedy Administration because he had so many ideas. The peace corps, for instance, was one of them. Hubert humphreys idea . Oh, yeah. Lets take a call next from indianapolis. This callers name is jerry and youre on the air, jerry. Welcome. Caller how you doing, maam . I love yalls show. But i got a question for the man. Back in 1968 in 1948, was humphrey spending more time with on the Civil Rights Movement with dr. Luther king and kennedy and humphrey and lyndon b. Johnson . Yes, and were going to spend quite a bit of time talking about his civil rights. In fact, why dont we get into that part on his world view by showing a clip. This is from your film, the art of possible. This is early in his career which Hubert Humphrey talks about his view of the world and his brand of liberalism. Lets listen. All right. We dont have that clip. As were getting it ready. Why dont you help us understand what informed his politics. Well, to answer the question too. He the civil rights was it was in him from the time he was born. So it wasnt new to Hubert Humphrey. Lyndon johnson was in the Southern State and had to deal more with the whole idea of the issue of race and getting elected. So it was quite different for him. But humphrey felt and believed deeply what he was up against. And what he actually did in that speech, Lyndon Johnson called the most courageous political act in the 20th century because he couldve destroyed the Democratic Party, could have destroyed truman and his own career. So he really believed in the civil human rights. And as i understand the caller, he was asking about humphreys commitment compared to the other two. So, to Lyndon Johnson and to john kennedy. Can you make a valued judgment about how much they cared about the issue compared to Hubert Humphrey . I kennedy was johnson probably was more in line with humphrey. Kennedy was a reluctant civil rights person. He came to it later and bobby came it to even more. But it was an issue for humphrey from the beginning. And it was an issue for johnson, actually, for many years too. Humphrey was much more passionate about it, i believe. And much more involved with the africanamerican community. He spoke at naacp meetings and knew a lot of people. He didnt know Martin Luther king, of course, 48, that early, but he did know a lot of other labor leaders. He felt randolph and russert and other people who were around at that time and, yeah, so lets listen to cynthia in sioux city, iowa. Caller good evening. I was a member of the Television News team in sioux city, iowa, but i happened to be in washington, d. C. , reporting the day we withdrew from vietnam. And i had the privilege of interviewing Hubert Humphrey on that very day. And he spoke about i asked him how he felt about losing the vietnam war and he said he, too, was a casualty of the vietnam war. He was quite emotional and had a tear in his eye. I wondered if you could talk more about his vietnam policy. Well, the two trips he made to vietnam while he was Vice President changed the first trip was scheduled for him and he went to a prescribed trip with all of the stops planned for him. He was watched pretty closely, and he saw only the good side of the war, spoke to the good generals, heard all the good news about the war. The second time, he decided to go on his own a year later. He went on his own, went to hospitals, talked to people. And at that point, he quit cheerleading the war because he found out about the corruption in the South Vietnamese government and all the other things going on with the war and he realized it was lost. He came back from the second trip in late 1967 knowing the war needed to be over. But he was boxed in. He had been speaking out for the war for the last year, the year previous. And Lyndon Johnson was not going to let he speak against the war. So, he had himself in a bad situation. And that conflict lasted with him all the way through 1968. As the caller before alluded, the two great issues of Hubert Humphreys political career were civil rights and the vietnam war. That 1948 speech that the caller talked about really launched Hubert Humphrey on to the National Stage. Were going to listen to a clip from that speech to the convention in philadelphia in 1948. When we come back, well be joined by another guest, juan williams, fox commentator, but also the author of a number of books that deal with the Civil Rights Era in American History. To the 1948 clip now. Mr. Chairman, fellow democrats, fellow americans, i realize that in speaking in behalf of the minority report on civil rights, that im dealing with a charged issue. With an issue which has been confused by emotionalism on all sides of the fence. I feel i must rise at this time to support the minority report, a report that spells out our democracy. A report that the people of this country can and will understand and a report that they will enthusiastically acclaim on the great issue of civil rights. For those who say we are rushing this issue of civil rights, i say to them, we are 172 years late [ applause ] after all i had been the destroyer of the Democratic Party, the enemy of the south. Hubert humphrey the, quote end quote, nigger lover. But i never felt so lonesome and so unwanted in all my life as i did in those first few weeks and months as United States senator. And that second clip was Hubert Humphrey reflecting on what it was like coming to washington in 1949 after his big speech in the 48 convention. Juan williams, welcome to our conversation. Its good to be with you. How important in the history of civil rights in this country was Hubert Humphrey . Well, that 48 speech was truly a landmark. Thats the moment at which you see organized politics get behind what we think of as the modern 20th century Civil Rights Movement. Thats the moment in which the Democratic Party sheds so much of its paralysis and gender by being reliant on the dixicrats. The southern democrats. Remember, in that period, democrats dominated the south politically. Its at that point you see someone rise up in the Democratic Party in the form of this very public convention. Remember, Hubert Humphreys voice is heard nationwide as speaker, the mayor of minneapolis, at the convention. Here he is saying to people across it is land, via can the medium of the day, radio, that this is an abomination. In is not what the Democratic Party, not what the American People should be standing for. Hes speaking in terms of National Morality and a call to justice and he does it at a cost because you have the segregation of dixiecrats, many of whom walk out of the convention. It leads to third parties and all the rest. It has a tremendous consequence that will fall like dominoes throughout American History. Name some of the names of dixiecrats that walked out. You have senator eastland. Im trying to Strom Thurmond . Thurmond would be the big one, but you had eastland and some of the other governors and members of the senate who are right there. Now, a question. How risky was it for Hubert Humphreys Senate Candidate to put his neck out on the line for civil rights . Was it controversial here at home . Talking about now after hes become senator . No, in 48 when he was running. He was a candidate, wasnt he, that year . He was, but he was still mayor, but he was a candidate. He was a candidate. Here among the voters in minnesota to speak out for civil rights, was that considered he came back as hero here. De . Yeah. I dont think it it resonated here fine. Other parts of the country it was a problem. Did he offer any risk for harry truman in making this . Absolutely. How did truman feel about this . When he first started the speech, truman called him a pipsqueak and was really upset about it. And thought he had ruined the election for him. He was really upset with the fact humphrey was speaking. And truman was watching in the white house on a tv and condemned him for it. He learned later on it helped him. He learned later on it it helped him and he turned it around and used the speech to get the africanamerican vote in the north and that helped him win. What inflamed his commitment to civil rights . Where did this come from in him . Thats a good question. Nobody knows. His father he got it from his father, but the question is where did his father get it in the middle of south dakota . His father just raised him to believe that people were people they had their own form of co r colorblindness. It was quite remarkable. There were no africanamericans in the small town he was in. There was a catholic family and jewish family that had crosses burned on their lawns. It was inside him. It was innate. So, i dont know what no one can really come up with a reason, but it certainly was there. Lets go to another call from andrew watching us in newberg, new york. Andrew, youre on. Welcome. Caller hi, good evening. How you doing . Great, thanks. Your question . Caller i was hoping that you could comment a little bit on the relationship between senator Robert Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey, and how it developed from being political enemies in 1960 to 1968, when they were vying for the democrat president ial nomination. Okay. Rfk relationship. The rfk relationship started really in 1960. He didnt have much of a relationship with him before that. It didnt start off well because of the way humphrey was treated in the primaries by the kennedys. But he learned to like Robert Kennedy. They learned to be friends. He campaigned for kennedy in 66 when he ran for the senate, and he in 1968 they had a meeting in may in early 1968, the kennedy and humphrey people, and they agreed that if humphrey got the nomination, kennedy would support him, and if kennedy got the nomination, humphrey would support him. He was pretty much an inline democrat. He was a party person, Bobby Kennedy, and so was humphrey. Next up is ron in everett, washington. Welcome to the humphrey discussion, ron. Caller thank you. Id like to jump or forward to the 1968 campaign again. Could you elaborate its my recollection that president johnson actually in some ways tried to scuttle humphreys effort, and, of course, that was one of the closest elections or popular elections in history. For example, its my recollection that if the bombing pause had been started a bit earlier, say, a month earlier, it might have made the crucial difference. Can you elaborate on that . Thanks. Did Lyndon Johnson try to scuttle his bid for the white house . Well, he never helped him. He didnt help him very much until the very end. He did these kind of things where he had nixon at the ranch. Then the next day, humphrey at the ranch. Hed bring all the press out for nixon and hed tell humphrey no press could be there. He did some really and part of the belief is among historians that johnson believed that humphrey might end the war and make him look bad, his legacy. And nixon he thought might continue the war, and he very well may have been for nixon. Until later in the campaign when nixon played a few dirty tricks. So he came out for humphrey. He thought he might lose texas at the end, which he didnt want to do. He was really late in the campaign when he started to work for humphrey. Pretty much during the whole campaign he was out of the picture and wouldnt help at all and held vietnam all over here. Juan, i want to bring the discussion back to civil rights. From the 1948 entry of Hubert Humphrey, he built his campaign on this, it came in really 1963 and 64 when civil rights legislation was being hut forward. Tell that story, if you would briefly. Humphreys involvement is as the democratic whip in the senate. Youve got lbj as president trying to basically, the inhater of president kennedys mantel, president kennedys efforts to get civil rights legislation passed. But kennedy, there was some doubt about his commitment to this. What he was willing the price was he willing to pay the price in terms of the southerners who would oppose it. But after the kennedy assassination, johnson expressed a sort of recommitment to get this done in honor to president kennedy. Does he make humphrey the paint man on this . Humphrey becomes the point man in the senate. Mike mansfield is the Senate Majority leader, a democrat, but its Hubert Humphrey, the man who gave the 48 speech, the man who has been persistent in terms of calling for civil rights and justice as part of the democratic agenda who really takes up the cause in the senate. Hes up against it, because the rules were different then. You know, you could filibuster to no end, and basically i believe the numbers are 67 votes were required in order to end the filibuster. You know, if you look through history, there are very few points at which you get enough votes to end a filibuster, but certainly its exceptional you would get enough votes to end a filibuster on any piece of civil rights legislation. Thats almost unheard of. It takes a great deal of effort by Hubert Humphrey to hold off a republican effort to prolong this filibuster. And finally is able to do it i think he gets Something Like four votes in excess of the 67 that are needed in order to call an end to it. Then, of course, whats interesting is, you know, the legislation couldnt even be put through the normal channels because if it would have been put through the judiciary committee, you would have run into none other than senator eastland. Its kind of extrajudicial process being put in place by mansfield, then engineered by Hubert Humphrey, then the bill gets its overwhelming passage. What were the opponents to civil rights constitutional arguments . Well, you know, the constitutional argument was largely states rights. We have a right to run our businesses, for instance, in a public place. We have a right to allow whoever we want in. That the constitution allows us to do that. Well, of course, that was one of the main arguments. There were a number of them, but i want to say, too, that the dixiecrats were probably the biggest obstacle for him. He had a number of republicans that were on his side. In fact, it was a coalition of republicans and democrats that made it happen, because they had the dixiecrats in the Democratic Party. Those people were just there was no way to change their minds. So it was an interesting group. Thomas kiko was on the republican side and Everett Dirkson eventually. So the opposition was very conservative republicans. Barry goldwater was against the civil rights bill, for instance, and the dixiecrats. That was his obstacle. Get it passed. The drama of this filibuster coming down to the wire, were going to just to give you a sense of what the arguments were like, we have another clip. This is Hubert Humphrey and Strom Thurman debating the 64 civil rights bill. Its a backtoback clip again with Hubert Humphrey talking in a speech about his strategy. So two backtoback clips. Lets watch that debate from 64 and then we come back to the two guests. And we know that fellow americans who happen to be negro have been denied equal access to places of public accommodation, denied in their travels the chance for a place to rest and to eat. Its not public accommodations. Its invasion of private property. This will lead to integration of private life. In the city of birmingham, alabama, up to 1963 there was an ordinance that said if you were going to have a restaurant and you were going to permit a negro to come in, you had to have a sevenfoot wall down the middle of the restaurant dividing the white from the colored. Now, how foolish this is and isnt that an invasion of private property . Senator, we live in a country of freedom, and under our constitution, a man has a right to use his own private property as he sees fit. We must remember that this bill creates no jobs, so therefore whose jobs are these negros and minorities going to take . Other negros jobs or white peoples jobs . Everyone has this weighing heavily on our conscience, and we must as individual citizens speak out against prejudice and bigotry and discrimination. We must be willing to accept the fact that every american is entitled to equal rights under the constitution and under the law. No less than that. Well, the most difficult task that i have as a floor leader on the civil rights bill is just being there, having to watch every move and make sure that at all times we have present or readily available 51 senators, because one of the tactics of the opposition is to call for repeated quorums, which means we have to produce 51 senators to answer the roll. That story of meeting at that time with senate rules to always have 51 supporters of the legislation on the floor. How did he organize the people to be there . He had teams, and they would rotate. At times when he if they didnt get a quorum, the senate would be shut down and would work in the favor of the anticivil rights people. They were able to bring only two or three people in and leave them there and go home and two or three people more come in. They have this rotating basis and they would wear out the 51 people that had to be there. They did things like drive to baseball games and pull a senator out of the baseball game and bring him back for the senate when they needed a quorum and they did all kinds of things. They had a list and they had a schedule for senators that had to be in it was really well done. They had some moments when it didnt work. They had to get people from outside the senate and bring them back, fly them back and things to get a quorum. It was tough. Was the opposition largely regional . Was it the Southern Coalition that opposed civil rights or was it broader than that . Well, you had humphrey, for example im sorry, goldwater, for example, whos a werner, from arizona. His opposition was sort of libertarian, which picks up on what mick was just saying. Which is that this is a matter of this is a free country, it is a matter of private property. You shouldnt be telling a man what to do. You see much of this then get reflected in Strom Thurmans language. I think we just saw some of that. Thurman is not speaking just in terms of rank racism, but hes saying this is a violation of my rights as an american to make personal choices and a violation of personal freedom. And humphreys having to come back and say this is ridiculous, this is not a genuine argument. In fact, what youre doing is perpetrating the worst kind of racism and youre oppressing people and that becomes the argument. Its interesting to go back and listen to that clip. We have such arguments today about jobs in our country and whats necessary to be done. And here you can hear Strom Thurmond saying, this leng lags doesnt produce jobs and, therefore, blacks, or as he says, negros, are going to take the white mans job. You just think oh, my god but clearly, he was comfortable saying this, and it had some effect in that era. Its not as if he was speaking into a void. To the contrary. It was generating a political response and strong opposition to the civil rights legislation. Lets take a call from jimmy in williamson, west virginia. Youre on, jimmy. Caller im so glad you called me, maam. This is wonderful. I havent spoken but to one of the sons of senator humphrey in the last well, since he died over the years. I think i spoke with skip. I am jimmy wofford. Im the fellow who sang the Hubert Humphrey songs. I have such a wonderful love for him. Over the years, i am he took me everywhere. I sang everything. He taught me politics. He had Great Respect for me, baz i came from a family who my father worked railroad and my grandpa, the mccoys, worked coal mines. And Hubert Humphrey came back in here. He heard me sing on a Radio Station in williamson, west virginia, in 1960. He gave me 25 a day to travel with him. Teddy white wrote a book called the making of the president. Teddy became one of my best friends, and teddy taught me a lot. And everyone in minnesota that ive met and throughout america and the great people that i met, henry fonda and the president s and the Vice President s and the people all over this country, im 77 years old now. I still record i did record for Capital Records for years, and im doing material now for the stories of the hatfields and mccoys family. My mamas family. Hubert humphrey was, to me, like my father. Jimmy, thank you so much for that personal story. You know jimmys songs . Yeah, yeah. Im not going to sing them, but i know them. I know them. He was and he traveled with mim all the time. He was with him very close. Its good to hear his voice. Hes one person i lost in this whole search for interviews. I didnt know where he was. Im glad he is alive and well. 77 years old. Thanks for calling in and adding that personal touch. We have to get one more relationship established here. Which was over the course can of his civil rights career well, around the passage of the bill, did he develop a personal friendship with Martin Luther king . He certainly knew king very well, and he had a relationship with king around this legislation. Its interesting that if you look inside the reaction in the black community, i mean, remember, there are lots of people who are militants who dont see the value of this legislation. King, on the other hand, is saying, no, this is a necessary step. If you go back to the great march on washington in 63, in large measure it says its for jobs, freedom, et cetera. But in large measure its to say to the United States congress, pass the Civil Rights Act, pass the law. Put it in place. Humphrey is one of the great supporters of this at the time. He is at the march on washington. He is someone who is emphatic in his support even as you get people in the dixiecrats saying we shouldnt have a march on washington. Theyre just trying to pressure us politically and all the fears that surround it. Humphrey was a total supporter and thought that it was a good and necessary step. One other thing about he and Martin Luther king, at the early stages of the filibuster, he met with Martin Luther king. He said to him, i want you to know were on the same page, and if i say some things to these dixiecrats, because humphreys policy was to treat them with respect. Use the humphrey way rather than the johnson way, which was to negotiate. If i say some things to them in public that you dont like, remember i say it because i want to get the bill passed and were on the same page, dont get upset about it. He had a great meeting with him before. We can hardly do justice for Hubert Humphreys career before he ran for president himself in 1968, but at least you get some sense for his work on the National Stage in civil rights. That he took into the vice presidency. And then in 1968 when he decided to run for president himself. We didnt establish this, but very important that Lyndon Johnson made the decision early in 1968 that he would not seek the office, thus setting the stage. At that point how many democratic contenders were thinking about challenging Lyndon Johnson . It was basically Bobby Kennedy and Gene Mccarthy. They were antiwar candidates . Yes, they were. Both antiwar candidates. And then humphrey it was april 27th, about a month later, that humphrey joined. When did johnson announce . 29th of march. Was that a surprise to the nation . It was a shock to humphrey. He had shown up to humphreys apartment earlier that day. Humphrey was in mexico before he left town, before he left washington. He showed up at humphreys apartment. Said, im going to give this speech. Ive got two endings. Im not going to tell you which one but you should listen to the speech. Because youll be surprised at one of the endings if i use it. He hadnt decided yet. Humphrey was in mexico, and he was called out to watch the broadcast. He announced he was leaving the office. Because of the chaos going on there, they thought they heard he was immediately leaving office, which would have made humphrey president. There was all this commotion, and then they realized he was leaving at the end of his term. It was a complete shock to him and to the country. Whats interesting about this to me is as you ask about who is running again him, it really was Gene Mccarthy. Gene mccarthy is the one whos in New Hampshire and taking on johnson. Johnson is not actively campaigning, but clearly he has surrogates and people who are all around who stand for johnson and for the kind of Democratic Party establishment at the time. Gene mccarthy is the antiestablishment, antijohnson candidate, and he has support from people who are superstars of the era. Today we still know Barbra Streisand and burt lancaster. But theyre people who are all antivietnam war. Of course, all the College Students are just emphatic about Gene Mccarthy. And Gene Mccarthy does surprisingly well in New Hampshire and ledgitimized the idea that johnson is vulnerable. Its only after mccarthys success that then you start to see Robert Kennedy willing to jump in. And then people are questioning why is he jumping in and trying to block Gene Mccarthy, because they think mccarthy has the momentum. Of course, that sets the table. Even as Hubert Humphrey is thinking that he, too, is trying to pull back on the war, he is pressured by the fact hes loyal to the man who gave him the vice presidency, Lyndon Johnson. Its one of these, to me, wonderful political stories where you see someone saying, you know what, you can tell, Hubert Humphrey is really a good guy and hes not going to put Lyndon Johnson in the position where Lyndon Johnson feels hes being undercut by his number two, the guy he empowered. But at the same time, and as you and mick have discussed earlier, johnson is totally dismissive of humphrey and especially humphreys contribution or desire to make a contribution, saying, you know what . This war is not the right war. Lets get to another call. This is larry in sherman oaks, california. Hi, larry. Caller hi. Im a rather big fan of humphreys, and for many years it took me quite a while to accept the fact that he was never going to be president , even after his passing. So i was able to finally channel that energy into putting up my own humphrey website which ive had since 2002. In 1998 i visited mhs along with with the Humphrey Institute when steve sandel was there. We looked in the catalog and didnt see any items surrounding the middle east war in june. I would have thought humphrey would have made some speeches or interviews or something. Didnt see anything. That surprised me. Was he involved in middle east policy, and did he speak out on it . He was. But i dont think were talking about june of 68, i guess is what theyre talking about. I dont think that it was at the forefront really at that point. He had too much else on his plate, i think is what it probably was. I dont remember seeing anything either. Ive been through all the archives. With the early primaries and Lyndon Johnsons announcement, things start going into warped speed in 1968. It was the year of assassinations, the first being Martin Luther kings. What happened in the country with the king assassination . Well, its hard to summarize it, but let me just say that you immediately have riots. You have riots that still mark cities like washington, d. C. , chicago, kansas city. It becomes a National Moment of crisis. You have people fearful that theres going to be largescale racial war in the country after this assassination. You know, the unrest that surrounded the vietnam war is still present. But now it becomes a background. Because remember, king was an opponent of the vietnam war. And he had said that this was an unjust war and a wrong war, and why are black and white boys dying in this war. There were people who were trying to join the Civil Rights Movement with the Antiwar Movement. King, who has not been political, king, who had condemned said there were flaws within the Democratic Party and flaws within the Republican Party, is becoming more political. There are people inside the Civil Rights Movement who recognize that johnson has been so supportive in terms of civil rights and humphrey supported him. Why are you, dr. King, now challenging this administration thats been so supportive of us . King, nonetheless, says that he feels a moral imperative. Remember, hes a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and he feels a moral imperative to say that this is part of an injustice thats being perpetrated by america. That america is on the wrong side of World History in pursuing this war effort. You got half a million americans at war, record numbers of deaths, and he is out there speaking against it, you know, a year before hes assassinated hes at the Riverside Church in new york making a speech that gets lots of attention. Shortly before he is assassinated, hes at the National Cathedral in washington, d. C. , speaking against the war. So, it becomes part of the energy that surrounds him and it puts him in the position of being an opponent of the johnson administration. Syracuse, new york. This is ralph. Youre on the air. Caller thank you very much. Thank you for the contenders. Im a proud uaw worker from upstate new york, and i have a quick comment and question and ill hang up. I have a video at home from the aflcio and the title of it is, words of a true friend, of workers and their unions. It is about Hubert Humphrey speaking at an aflcio gathering. And it was towards the end of his life. He was still smiling. He knew it was almost at the end. And he had a great quote at the end of his speech. He says, id rather live 50 years like a tiger than 100 years like a chicken. But i want to move up to 1968. I met a guy 20 years ago who said he worked on the Humphrey Campaign in 1968. He said that he came home after working on the campaign, and he was at this hotel. He was looking out at this park, and the news came on and said that theres a humphrey protestors having violence in the park. He called humphrey the next day when they had a meeting, and humphrey said, i know. Nixons been doing it for a while and theres nothing we can do about it. I think from this guys story nixon was doing it to link humphrey to antiwar protestors, and i was wondering if your guests have ever heard a story like this. Thank you very much. Thanks very much. I have heard stories of being paid protesters, and ive heard that in the Civil Rights Movement, too, i believe, where people were paid to cause trouble. Its never been its hard to document. There were stories about it. Im sure it probably happened at times, but thats, you know theres no way to know for sure. He was a union caller. How important were the labor unions to the civil rights effort and the Antiwar Movement . On the civil rights front they were very important. They were slow to come on. You think of a. Philip randolph going all the way back to the 20s and 30s trying to get the Labor Movement in this country to understand the importance of racial equity. But by the time of the 60s, you know, they are an essential part of the Democratic Coalition, Democratic Coalition part of that fdr legacy, if you will. Here they are now linking hands with not only a. Philip randolph and ruston but also dr. King to support the march on washington. Making a show. The famous picture of dr. King speaking at the march on washington, hes got several people, you know, the meat cutters and others, right behind him in that video, and you can see the union involvement. You can see the head of the aflcio and others right there with him. It becomes not just a matter of a support mechanism but a controlling mechanism for people in the Kennedy Administration who wanted to be able to have some levers of control over the march and over the civil rights effort. Well, were going to take a call here, and then weve got to fast forward it for history. Shortly after the king assassination, Robert Kennedy assassinated in los angeles. Lets listen to a call from dean in cleveland and come back and talk about that. Hi, dean. Caller hi, im a fellow brother of the cleveland Building Construction trade. I dont want to turn this into a union rally, but my first ever political involvement in politics was with Hubert Humphrey. I was 18 years old, and i live in a city a suburb of the city of brooklyn, ohio. And he had came to brooklyn, the Vice President of the United States, and you can imagine what was happening in 68 and 69 and all of the 60s for that matter. He sat down and stayed in town for a couple of hours with our mayor, who turned out to be a mayor for 51 years. His name was john coyne. They were both mayors. They talked things over. I was only 18. I also got drafted the following year. But it was just a pleasure this series youre running and im a happy warrior of Hubert Humphrey. Thanks for having this. Hubert humphrey, the happy warrior, the name he was given throughout his political career. Were live from the Minnesota History museum, the History Center in st. Paul right by the capitol. Beautiful building if youre ever here, please come visit. They have a special exhibit on 1968, and were using that as our backdrop to talk about the president ial campaign of 1968, Hubert Humphrey, one of his many bids for president. The one at which he actually got the democratic nod. Unsuccessful in his bid. But as were talking tonight, he made a major contribution to American History and were learning more about that. In june the california primary and the next National Figure to be gunned down, rfk. What happens to the campaigns at this point . Well, i know what happened to humphreys campaign, it stopped for a good month. He just didnt feel comfortable campaigning at all under those circumstances. It set him way back. Thats really the beginning of his numbers sliding. Because earlier in the year, in the early primary season, he wasnt in the primaries, but he was ahead by as much as ten points over every other candidate. After kennedy was shot, it looked like the Democratic Party was falling apart really. Really, it stopped his campaign. When he got back on his feet in july, he was already behind nixon. Then came the Republican Convention, which sort of cemented nixons lead. You know what i would say, too, is what stands out in my mind is we were talking a moment ago about the king assassination. Robert kennedy gives an amazing speech that so many people still remember in indianapolis on the night of the king assassination. As i described to you, theres rioting breaking out all over the country. Theres a tremendous sense of racial anger and racial unease. He talks about the king assassination in terms of his own brothers assassination, and the kind of drops of pain and all that we can do to try to ease that pain, but the patience thats required. And then, you know, just a few months later, here he is laying dead in los angeles, and i think that, again, the sense is that americas leaders are being killed, people who are the idealists, people who were to carry on the grand traditions of liberalism, people who were challenging the establishment are being eliminated. Theres this great sense of sadness and despair in the american body of politic at that moment, and its hard to capture the extent of it. Sometimes we have arguments today about whats going on in washington and paralysis and polarization, and people say to me, if you were here in 68 you would understand how bad things could have been. It felt like the country is coming apart. It feels like we dont know the forces of evil that are at work and why so many Great American leaders are being killed at this moment. Dont forget, president johnsons approval numbers are in the low 30s. He cant even come out he cant attend major events. He wont be able to go to the Democratic Convention, and theres rioting at the Democratic Convention. Its really an incredible moment in 68, and Hubert Humphrey is there. We were talking about the happy warrior. Hubert humphrey is there. He wants to be antiwar and he wants to stand up with people and say theres reason to hope, america can do it. Hes seen as an establishment figure because of his association with the incumbent, Lyndon Johnson. So our cities are burning and kids are rioting on college campuses, our leaders are being gunned down. In all this, people are trying to vie for the office and bring america to the next stage. Were going to the next stage. Were going to walk down the aisle here and listen to a call as we do and our next stop is about the opposition as its gathering both with George Wallace and also the republicans. Lets listen to jim, who is watching us in new york. Hi, jim. Caller hi, how are you . Were great. Thanks. Whats your question about Hubert Humphrey . Caller let me first say how much i am enjoying this program. I really appreciate it. My question really, though, deals with the first draft lottery, which i believe was in either 67 or 68. I do have great recollection of being eligible for that, having a very low number, which, of course, upset everyone in my family. What was humphreys position relative to that, the whole concept of the lottery . What did he do, pro or con, in that issue . You know, i dont know that ive heard humphrey say anything about the lottery, but i do know that later on he at that time he worked to raise the voting age, as i said earlier, because he thought it was unfair that people were drafted at 18 and couldnt vote until they were 21. I think later in his life he had different ideas about it, and he probably felt that the draft itself probably wasnt such a good idea. At the time i dont know that he really said anything about it that i remember. So summer of 1968 and the countrys in disarray. The Democratic Party with the assassination of both dr. King and then Bobby Kennedy are in disarray. There was a report that Gene Mccarthy lost his heart to campaign after the assassination. But on the republican side, Richard Nixon, who had also been senate, and also a former Vice President , wanted to be president as well. What was his campaigns reaction to all of this turmoil . How were they positioning their man . You know u, the principle response from nixon was law and order. He wanted to restore law and order in the streets. He wanted to get the counterculture, all the young people who were so vociferous in their antiwar efforts and protesting on campus and shutting down campuses, wanted to get that under control. And he appealed to then a group that is now a famous name, but the silent majority in american politics who felt as if they were being put upon by this counterculture and all these young people, some of whom had supported Gene Mccarthy. Whats interesting is nixon in this period is a guy who, you know, himself has concerns about the war, has questions about it. But he is hes positioned himself as a staunch supporter of the military and the war. As a counter, i think, to some of the democratic efforts and separate himself out from the johnson forces. Hubert humphrey is still struggling and boxed in by being loyal to his president. Johnson demanding loyalty as we get into the campaign. So the two candidates were able to distinguish themselves . Let me say before that its interesting, if you look on the republican side, its not only nixon thats running, but youve got romney remember the father of the current candidate for president. Yeah. Romney was trying to position himself as antiwar. And it leads to what i guess we all will remember as the most famous moment in George Romneys president ial run when he says hes been brainwashed by the generals and the political leaders about whats going on in vietnam. Of course, saying he was brainwashed then alienated some of the that silent majority base because they wanted to see the war continue and to win the war. Romney thought he could outflank nixon by being the antiwar republican. Turns out he hurt himself with his base and he really was never able to challenge nixon after that. Then you also had, you know, you had people like harold stasson. I mean, thats Nelson Rockefeller also. Rockefeller is in that mix, romney is in that mix. And guess who, Ronald Reagan is in that mix. Reagan is the strong, strong conservative as opposed to nixon at the miami convention. Ultimately it comes down to rockefeller and reagan kind of knocking each other out and allowing nixon to have a clear path to the nomination in miami. Lets take a call from fred watching us from ypsilanti, michigan. Hi, fred. Caller hi, there. I wanted to mention one of my favorite stories about humphrey when he was the mayor of minneapolis. The Bell Telephone company was going out on strike. The mayors office, as the story goes, overlooked the Bell Telephone company across the street. And he saw them taking in mattresses and food to be brought into the building to prepare for a long strike. So he ordered the inspectors to go over there and have the hotel to have permits so he emptied the building of all that staff and the strike was over. Hubert Horatio Humphrey was always a great friend of the working people, and thats my comment. Thanks for telling that story. Lets move right on to another call from nancy in norton, virginia. Hey, nancy. Caller hi. I was 14 years old in 1968. Im from if appalachia but i was visiting in washington. And my older cousin was a humphrey supporter. I was always very proud of that. I wanted to ask since i heard on msnbc earlier that the occupy movement is coming to d. C. In december 5th through the 9th. What your guests could offer in regard to recognizing paid provocateurs . I know dr. King studied at the Highlander Center for nonviolence in knoxville, tennessee, and all the 99ers i approve of are nonviolent and if they have any advice about that. Washington is not a city, its a crime scene. Thank you very much. Thanks very much. Well, yeah, he started at the hylander school as rosa parks and other involved with the Civil Rights Movement. Initially the Highlander School is there to help people involved with Union Activities who were fighting against coal miners and the like and teach them how to organize. But then of course, those tactics extend to civil rights protests and the like. Obviously in the case of bus boycott that rosa parks and dr. King become so well known for in 1955 in montgomery. But extending that now in terms of the lessons now that you would take to Something Like occupy, remember that when king is assassinated, king was intended to come to washington to lead a poor people eesz campaign in 68. The Poor Peoples Campaign was going to be right there on the National Mall right in front of the u. S. Congress and the capitol. The idea as dr. King expressed it is he wanted to show the leaders of the free world, of the greatest country and richest country in the world that there was still need in poverty including in appalachia, but also in the big cities. He was going to build these shanty huts right there on the mall. Talk about an occupy movement and theres a direct analogy to that. Of course there was fear this was going to attract all sorts of antarctic, bad elements and, of course, thats what we see in terms of occupy. Weve been talking about Richard Nixon, and we have a clip from a little later but during the general election. It talks about the fact there were no debates during the general election. There was a lot of discussion whether there would be. Heres Richard Nixon talking about not debating Hubert Humphrey. Im of the opinion we need a debate in this country. I think that you and mr. Humphrey should get at vietnam and some other questions. I think mr. Humphrey is having a great time debating himself. Youre prejudiced, mr. Nixon. If you dont want to debate with the third party candidate, whose name shall not be mentioned, why dont you get your friends in the house of representatives to pass a special law permitting you and mr. Humphrey to debate . Have you ever looked at the membership on that committee . You know, its always amusing to me. People say well now, why dont i get the republicans to do something on a debate . Lets remember that the senate is 21 democratic. Let us also remember that the house is 32 democratic. And any time that Hubert Humphrey, with his great influence on his side wants a debate, i would think that he would be able to get the democrats to pass it. Im i think that i think that my power in terms of what i could get the republican members of the house to do is greatly overestimated. If you want to understand, democrats as well as republicans apparently are insisting on the threeman debate. Thats the problem as you know it. Theyre not opposing the debate but with wallace getting 21 in the poll i shouldnt have mentioned his name. With wallace getting 21 of the poll, they insist that they cant in effect go back to their constituents unless they provide him an equal chance. If you got your friends and mr. Humphrey got his friends, surely youd have enough friends to bring this thing off, wouldnt you . I dont think hes got that many friends. Wow. A glimpse of Richard Nixon talking about the 1968 campaign being the focus of our discussion here on the Contenders Program featuring hubert h. Humphrey, democratic candidate for president unsuccessfully in 1968. Well take a call from jim, and Richard Nixon talked about George Wallace. Were going to listen to jim and then were going to talk about George Wallace. Jim, youre on the air from east brunswick, new jersey. Caller hello. Great series and great show. Hello. We can hear you. Go ahead please. Caller yes. I have a purely speculative question i wanted to ask primarily to mick in dealing with the power of celebrities in 1968 that supported in the primaries mainly kennedy and mccarthy and as to the announcements of a bombing halt possibility that many of them came flocking back to humphrey, and many participated in an election eve telethon called humphrey muskie. Many stars were there. Frank sinatra, steve allen, paul newman and sonny and cher. There was a harris poll taken the next day on election day saying that humphrey would win. My question is, do you think that if these stars and that sort of vehicle, this marathon telethon, taking questions live on the air, that humphrey may have pulled it off if these people had come to him earlier in the fall of 68 . Well, Gene Mccarthy called in but there was a lot else going on at that time besides the telethon. They thought they had peace in vietnam the weekend before, that week before. And humphreys poll ratings jumped just kept going up almost past nixon in most polls because peace in vietnam would have won him the presidency. And nixon sent madame chenault to South Vietnam and convinced him not to come to the peace talks. Its documented all over the place. He backed out of the peace talks, our ally, the south backed out of the peace talks. And many people believe thats what really lost the election at the end. We merged George Wallace. Right behind you is a Campaign Poster for George Wallace. When did he come into the race and what bloc did he represent . He repd the southerners who were alienated. Not only by humphrey but by the student protesters. Hes representing working class people even in the northern cities who really, i think, are frustrated with the entire climate. They think theres a lack of law and order. They think the minority, the blacks, are out of control, and they think that nobodys listening to them. This is sort of archie bunker, element, if you will, and thats who wallace comes to represent. Its a substantial feeling because a lot of these people, remember, would have been democrats. Theyre union people or theyre southerners. But they are not in line with whats become of the Democratic Party in terms of the Gene Mccarthys, the ed muskys, and theyre just not there. Wallace gives form to their feelings. So in the interest of time weve got to fast forward this story. The republicans meet in miami for their convention in the summer of 68. The democrats convene as we said at the outset in chicago with their party, with serious fractions about the war, and chicago was what kind of scene . Where do you begin with chicago . Humphrey tried to get the its little known, but humphrey tried to get the whole Convention Moved to miami because he knew it was coming, and johnson wouldnt do it because he was so close with daly and he promised daly he would have the convention there. There were all kinds of strikes. There were cab strikes, there were communications strikes, i think there was a phone strikes. There were barricades up. They expected 5, 10, 15,000 protestors. I mean, it was chaos. He was worried about threats to his family. There had been threats to kidnap his wife, and he arrived at the convention without a peace plank. He had a peace plank to bring to the convention to talk about ending the war, and johnson squished it right at the end. He ended up coming to the convention. Did he have the nomination in hand when he got there . I think he did. People were nominated in different way back then. It wasnt by primaries. It was by the bosses, the delegates, and he had most of the delegates by way of Lyndon Johnson. Thats another thing johnson held over him. He had some sway over the delegates that would nominate him for the presidency. Humphrey is the last nominee who gets the nomination through the bosses and not the primary process. You get people like daly and other big city mayors and Union Leaders who get behind humphrey. Again, almost out of anger at the Counterculture Movement and the Antiwar Movement. And daley is not only beating up, i might say, on the protesters in the street, hes beating up on media inside the convention, famously. Its a horrible scene. And in terms of the American Public thats watching this, a huge turnoff. Richard daly was determined to have law and order. What kind of forces did he marshal . The police force there and the National Guard are all on the streets, and they are whipping heads. Its a really horrible scene. And, you know, humphreys put in the position of saying he stands with the bosses against people who are breaking down law and order civilization, the anarchists in the streets and the drugs that are also then being featured and the free sex and all the rest. And hes trying, i think, to appeal to that silent majority and saying, you know, he stands for law and order. Democrats are not an outofcontrol party. Its ironic because, you know, hes Hubert Humphrey is a guy who was not a great supporter of the war. He was not a machine guy. He was an idealist. But this this moment, he becomes a representative of that big city mayor union boss lbj bullying, hard ball politics. Lets go back to calls all the way from honolulu. Mike, youre on the program. Welco welcome. Caller i really enjoy your program. And the its specially the history involved. Im 69 years old now. And i remember in 61 1960 i was in high school. I worked for kennedy. And, of course, he was running against Hubert Humphrey. And also Hubert Humphrey had a Little Campaign slogan or a Little Campaign jingle that was to the tune of give me that old time religion. Of course, kennedy was a catholic. So, anyway, i remember that. And, of course, we go back to 68, and i was married then. Of course, i voted for humphrey. And i wonder my question for the author is this, was there any animosity between the kennedy camp in 68 and Hubert Humphrey because of because of Hubert Humphreys anticatholic campaign in 1960 . Thank you. I assume he means was it still there in 1968 . I dont think so. I think it was gone by that point. But, however, the things that john kennedy did to Hubert Humphrey in that 60 campaign, you know, just paled in comparison. He basically bought that election in west virginia, the primary in west virginia. We have a clip we didnt show from 1960. Im going to take a call. We have jfk talking about Hubert Humphrey from 1960 that will just help illustrate some of the relationship. As we get that ready, lets listen to john in knoxville, tennessee. Hi, john. Caller Hubert Humphrey and Gene Mccarthy were Close Friends for many, many years, as fellow dflers. And at the end of the terrible convention in chicago, mccarthy told humphrey that he would he would come out and actively support him soon. And i think the assumption was like in september. But mccarthy never did. And that was a terrible burden for humphrey. And probably mccarthy could have swung enough votes to get humphrey elected. And im just wondering whether our experts share that view or whether they have some other view . Thank you. Well, i share it for sure. We interviewed Walter Mondale and he said if mccarthy would have come out on the stage at the convention and said, were not humphreys not our best candidate and we dont have were against the war but we need to vote for him rather than Richard Nixon, then he would have won the elections. They had a meeting a couple weeks before the meeting where they told humphrey to come out by midseptember, which he never did. Humphrey and myles lord were talking constantly all through the campaign trying to get mccarthy to come on board with humphrey and wouldnt do it. Left the cannot for a while. No one knows why. If youve joined us along the way, mick has done a documentary on Hubert Humphrey. We have a copy well show you a little later on, the cover, so you can follow up on it. Many clips were showing you are from his research and the documentary itself. One is the 1960, jfk talking about his relationship with Hubert Humphrey and his influence on his president ial campaign. This week i had the opportunity to debate with mr. Nixon. I feel that i should reveal that i had a great advantage in that debate. And im not referring to anyones makeup man. [ applause ] the advantage that i had had was that mr. Nixon had just debated with where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, fate. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. Those are the words of a saint, and may those of us of less purity listen to them well and may america tonight resolve that never, never again shall we see what we have seen. I was heartbroken. It was the moment of my life, the convention, and all at once there is this total disarray. I again was constantly posed with the problem, what do i do under these circumstances . That last was a clip directly from the documentary of Hubert Humphrey reflecting on that terrible turmoil at the 1968 convention. We have about 35 minutes left. Were going to move along to the next part of the exhibit here and take some seats and round out our discussion of Hubert Humphreys life and career, continue taking your telephone calls. As we do, were going to show you some of the humphrey commercials from the 1968 president ial campaign. Well see you in just a couple minutes. What the democrats done for you . Lets think about it. Your kids are getting a better Education Today because democrats have given schools needed federal aid. And when school is out, your kids wont have to stay at home. They can get good summer jobs. You have room for the luxuries because democrats have worked to push for a higher minimum wage. You dont have to worry about supporting your mother today, and she need not worry about being a burden to you, thanks to Social Security and medicare. Quite an accomplishment . You know it. And you only heard a minutes worth. What have the democrats ever done for you and yours . Think about it. Paid for by citizens for humphrey muskie. The Vice President of the United States. We have seen the terrible results of violence in this country. It would be intolerable if a handful of people, and thats what it is, just a handful, could harden against needed change. Ive seen ugly violence, too, and it perverts the spirit of america. I saw the Republican Convention in 1964 when the governor was shot down. I saw when governor wallace, a man with whom i disagree, was heckled into silence. And it happened to me. There are millions of decent americans who are willing to sacrifice for change, but they want to do it without feeling threatened and they want to do it peacefully. They are the nonviolent majority, black and white who are for change without violence. These are the people for whose voice i want to be. The preceding was a p prerecorded Political Announcement paid for by resources for humphrey. Mr. Nixon, where do you stand on expanded medicare . Mr. Nixon, where do you stand on aid for Higher Education . Mr. Nixon, where do you stand on the Wheat Program . Where do you stand . Where do you stand . I must say hes you know something . Richard nixon hasnt won an election on his own in 18 years. Lets keep a good thing going. Those were Campaign Commercials from the 1960 Humphrey Campaign. As we talk about Hubert Humphrey, our featured contender who thought the presidency was lost in American History. We are live from the Minnesota History center hospital, and this is a special theyre doing from 1968. I believe it was in chicago. Chicago is certainly appropriate after what were talking about. Both of these men have worked extensively on the period of the Civil Rights Era. The fall campaign, weve now got wallace, nixon and Hubert Humphrey all vying for the white house. What was the fallout . Did they continue . There was some rioting that persisted, but it wasnt of the major kind of, you know, smoke in the sky variety that we saw earlier in the year, but the racial tension was palpable throughout the country. Its interesting, the way that nixon presented himself was as someone who was going to restore order in the big cities. So this also had a strong appeal to people who felt this civil this period shapes so much of our politics. We will see the change we have been talking about out of the democratic primary process. After that no longer is it the case that the big boss, the union bosses and the mayors are dictating everything. And you will see the need for the Democratic Party to come back together. And it doesnt do so for a long ti time. And we see the trajectory. You mentioned Vice President ial nominees. How did the alliance come together . Well, he had known him for quite a while. Everyone wanted him to have a southern candidate to pull some of the south. He said i want someone who would be a good president if something happens to me. The assassinations were very fresh. They knew the Vice President is a heartbeat away, as they said. He wanted someone he liked and stable. It didnt help much politically. He wasnt helping along those lines. He spoke to rockefeller about being his Vice President , crossing party lines. Which would have been pretty remarkable. Rockefeller gave 24 hours and said he couldnt do it. Just couldnt do it. Rockefeller didnt have a special liking for nixon. The next is from of on dale, virginia many youre on the air. Caller hi, susan and gentleman. Im thoroughly enjoying the series. I was intrigued about the comment earlier that humphrey was the originator of the idea for the piece core and a lot of other ideas for kennedy. I wonder if kennedy ever gave him credit for those ideas and what some of the other ideas of his were . Well, as i said, gave credit for food for peace program. I have a speech where he said that. I dont think he ever said so about the peace core. There are other things i dont think he said specifically but i think he said these are humphrey ideas. He took the 1960 campaign, when he lost the primary to jfk, he said he want to get my ideas into the administration. So he worked on them. He was 57 years old. Born in 1911. So in 1968, 57 years old. And how did he present himself as a candidate, gentlemen . Was he i mean, we have all of this change going on in society. Was he conventional . Extremely conventional. We talked about the difficulty he had portraying himself as an opponent of the war. You know what, as you pointed out, he is born in 1911. He is not a Counter Culture guy. No way will he be standing around in with long hair and be credible. He understands the need for stability and law and order even though he is not the law and order candidate. So he is in a suit and tie. He has difficulty even with the kind of poetics that Robert Kennedy had employed when kennedy was when king was assassinated. Hubert humphrey is a great speaker. As we saw in that clip, you have people screening at you as basically an operator for Lyndon Johnson, who is extremely unpopular. Hes in a vice, political vice to this moment seems like a squeeze to me. And it was impossible to present himself as anything. It was done for him. He didnt have much chance to be himself. Interestingly enough, he was the revolutionary in 1948. So he was in the other role in 1948. He became part of the very establishment, like it or not, he attacked in 1948. A big change from 48 to 68. Next telephone call belfast, maine. Pat. Caller hello. Hi. Caller i worked for Hubert Humphrey. My husband in the 0s was his press secretary. I was Muriel Humphreys press secretary. Oh, my goodness. Caller we were involved in his 1960s campaign. We were with him through all of 1968. We were at the Democratic Convention and the horror and tragedy of what was unfolding. And i had the experience of escorting Muriel Humphrey and their children through the basement of the Convention Center with tear gas seeping all around us as we were going into the Convention Hall on the evening that he would get the democratic nomination. And that not at the hotel room at the conrad hilton, we were with him as he stood out looking at the violence and the terrible tragedy unfolding in grant park. And the atmosphere in the room was almost as a funeral. And humphrey was the saddest man that you could imagine on the night that he had achieved his greatest political victory to be the democratic president ial candidate. And a man whose ideals and integrity carried through his whole life and in his personal life when you knew him at home, when you were with him privately, he was the same person with the same passion, the same conviction for civil rights, for working americans, for the concerns of world peace that you heard in his public statements. And i dont think we have had somebody with his gifts in the years since. Pat, our time is short here. Are we doing your boss justice tonight . Is there one aspect of his political career that you think is important for our viewers to hear about . Caller i think youre doing a beautiful job him. Youve touched on so many things. I was happy that he was being given some credit for the tremendous array of ideas and programs that he actually generated and then championed during the Kennedy Administration. Thank you for your call. Whats your family name . Caller my last name ifs griffith. My husband wrote a biography of humphrey in 1963 called humphrey, a candid biography. Thank you so much for being part of our conversation. Great to have your personal stories that added to our understanding of the 68 convention. We have just 15 minutes and a long life of Hubert Humphrey. Lets talk about election night. Where did he watch the returns . I think he was in the lemming ton hotel. What were the election day results like . They thought they had a chance. Illinois, ohio and a couple other states came in at the very end. They were ahead for a while. He basically went to bed believing he probably wont going to win and woke up in the morning and found out he didnt. It was a close race. It was very close. Ohio, illinois, and then california, which which all go to nixon. They dont go to nixon by a lot. Very, very close. And i think its just above a percentage point difference in terms of absolute percentage of vote in that national election. The Electoral College vote, 301 for Richard Nixon, 191. And George Wallace got 46 Electoral College votes. Who did he take them away from . Well, thats a good argument. You know, i think if you think about the fact that the south end was still mostly democratic and theyre react to go a lot of civil rights efforts, i think those votes would have been available for a democrat who was operating at the behest of the democratic machine, the union bosses, the mayors, the healthy in the country. But that was gone. That was gone. That had fallen apart. They were trying to hold together for humphrey. Lbj was not absolutely supported. Didnt let the money go, didnt make the effort to make the people have a troepb vote for humphr humphr humphrey. Those were democratic votes. We talk about africanamericans who are coming into the process. But, you know, what happens if king lives . Does king get more involved at this point . Does king say that he is for humphrey . I think he might have. Would king have been someone who might have himself launched a thirdparty effort . I dont know. But i think that would have changed the dynamic marketedly. What was the africanamerican voter turnout like in 1968, do you know . It was pretty good. I dont know the exact numbers. This is right after the Voting Rights act in 65, Civil Rights Act of 64. This is a rallying cry for turnout. Much more in the north and west than in the south. There is still a lot of intimidation going on. But, no, plaques are turning out in numbers. The block of states that wallace got, the Southern States, alabama, mississippi, georgia, its been a question among historians since the end of the election who the votes were taken from. If you look at it a different way, if they had a choice of only nixon and humphrey, it might have gone with nixon. So its hard to know where they came from. And louisiana, mississippi, georgia. This is jim. Caller hi there. First of all, i would like to mention that in 1968, in march of 1968 when johnson made his speech and stuck down, two days before on friday, march the 29th, which i have to correct your guest there on that date, march the 29th, mr. Humphrey agreed to speak at my school. And the speech was scheduled for three weeks later. On sunday, march 31st is when johnson made his speech. And ive always wondered since that event whether he had a clue on that friday. Because he had scheduled some other speeches for later in april on the same date that johnson was going to step down or he was just simply anticipating that the possibility may exist. Because of that speech i was able to sit on the front row of his announcement speech on april 27th at the hotel along with the other students that helped invite him. And i was also at the capitol the day the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, june the 19th of 1964. So i feel like ill always have a privileged front row seat in parts of his life. Finally, i would just like to make a comment, which is that most of the progressive legislation and programs that evolved in the 50s, 60s, 70s were a result of him fridays, you might say, forward agenda. But it seemed at that point when he ran for president in 68, those key supporters of that legislation turned on him. And he suddenly became outdated or a little bit too conservative, you might say in their eyes. And what the country was looking for at that time. So they didnt view him as a strong advocate. The Antiwar Party did not consider him a strong advocate. Jim, woulder going to jump in. I think our guest made that exact point earlier. His great influence. But when it came time to for his own he had his hands on bills every three days. In 1968, there was only one issue. It was only vietnam. Everything else was for phone. All of that was lost, be unfortunately. Who had a plan to end the war . Richard nixon won. The war raged on another couple of years. What about Hubert Humphreys life after this . Nixon didnt say he was going to end the war. What he said was he was going to win the war. The plan anyway. A secret plan. That was the effort that appealed to that silent majority. So the problem for humphrey, again, we talked about how he is trapped in terms of being lbjs Vice President and lbjs feeling that he wants to win this war. But hes also trapped in terms of this larger argument with nixon where he wants to say, you know, im for stability. Im not for things going out of control. At the same time that nixon really says that he is the law and order candidate. Humphrey can never be that because nixon has that space occupied. Even as humphrey is trying, he is alienating the people who logically would be his supporters. I want the take a call. This is for gavin in port jervis, new york. Hello, gavin. Caller hello. You sort of touched bon this earlier. The question i have, if George Wallace had been out of the 1968 president ial race, would you have seen the outcome being even closer than it was and in all of your opinions, who would it have been closer for . Would it have been humphrey on the top . Or would it have put nixon ahead. Thank you very much. Okay. Do you have any more to say on that . As i said, nick said he thinks its kind of up in the air. I dont know why, but from my perspective, i just think wallace hurt humphrey. And i think a lot of working class union folks who had some allegiance to the Democratic Party going back to fdr, i think they peeled off. And, you know, went with wallace. And i dont know that they would have gone to the Republican Party and to nixon. We have seen that in the north. The south is where i think if wallace wasnt in the race in the south, nixon would have gone the votes. He started to do it and backed out. He decided not to do it. He began to get began to be ill at that point. But he did go back to the senate . 1970 he took mccarthys seat in the senate. Jim mccarthys popularity in the state had dropped and he left politics. And humphrey took it. One of the largest landslides of senatorial career until 19 78 when he died. What was his second stint like . Second stint. When he returned. He was at the bottom. He was a freshman. He was treated that way. No committees. Walter mondale was senior senator. And treated like someone was just starting. He found his own way. And within a short time he was working on bills again and passed a couple different legislation bills during that time. He got back into it. And this is amy. Hi, amy. Whats your question . Caller my question is, since humphrey served during the mccarthy era, what was his relationship with joe mccarthy . Did he go after him because he was so liberal . Thats a really complicated question. He tried to make it illegal to be communist. And that was done in some part because he was trying to bring the truth out and force mccarthys hand so he would have to proven somebody was a communist and it would be illegal. You couldnt be so passe about it. He would have to incriminate them. That was a bad plan. It didnt work. He didnt like mccarthy. Even though he was anticommunist, he didnt like anything that he did. Thought he was a demagogue. He was very ill with cancer. What kind of cancer did he have . Bladder cancer. In the last years of his life in the United States senate. He ended up dying in january of 1978. He was brought back to the capitol for an unusual tribute never happened before. Its the first time. Tell us about that. Both houses of congress and the senate met for to honor one senator. Never happened before. They all met. Just to honor his work. His spirit was still there. Republicans and democrats all spoke. And he invited nixon to come back for his funeral in the capitol. He said i want you to come back. Nixon said i dont think youre going to do it. He said youre coming to my funeral. Its my dieing wish. And nixon came back to washington. As we close here, im going to ask you to bring us full arc. The premise is people that were not successful in the president ial bid by changed American History. How did he change American History . The speech at the convention changed america. Its the Civil Rights Movement. Hubert humphrey was at the top of the order people who Held Elected Office who put themselves out as advocates as some might say on the right side of history. So much of the change we have seen when it comes to race relations. If you think about it just in pure political terms you think about barack obama, president of the United States today, that doesnt happen without some of the changes that come as a result of democrat ic party, primary process. Again, heres Hubert Humphrey. He is the last selection by the party bosses and the machines and in this aftermath of Hubert Humphreys defeat in 68, suddenly you have allocation of delegates based on primaries and process. That is part of the legacy. And all the other social programs. We think about the end of the new deal period. But then you have a whole new range of some of them which nick has been mentioning here, efforts on the social justice scene. But social programs that were the work of his fertile mind. I apologize. We have run out of time. I encourage people to find your documentary. This is what it looks like. Hubert h. Humphrey, the art of the possible. It is widely available wherever you buy your videotapes. Thank you so much for being here. Sure. Thank you. Hubert humphrey died, as we said, buried back here in minneapolis at lakewood cemetery. His tombstone says i have enjoyed my life, its disappointments outweighed by its pleasures. I have loved my country in a way some people consider sentimental and out of style. I still do and i remain an optimist with joy, without apology about this country and about the american experiment in democracy. Thats Hubert Humphreys grave stone. As we close on this contender series, were going to show you just a bit of video from that very unusual session in the house of representatives. Familiar faces to you when Hubert Humphrey, just months before his death, was invited back for a tribute and celebration for his long political and legislative career. Thanks for being with us. We asked you here to tell you we love you. Mr. Speaker, knowing full well the dangers of what im about to do, i yield as much time as he wishes to consume to the senior senator from minnesota. I am standing where the president of the United States gives his state of the union address. My goodness how i long for that opportunity. Inspired by conversations with noted historians about the leadership skills that make for a successful presidency. As americans go to the polls next month to decide who should lead our country, perspectives into the lives and events that forged each president s leadership style. To learn more about all our president s and the books featured historians, visit cspan. Org thes and order your copy today wherever books are sold. Youre watching American History tv. Explore our nations past. Cspan3. Created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Up next, Hubert Humphrey accept his partys nomination at the 1968 Democratic National convention in chicago. Vice president humphrey lost to republican Richard Nixon in a close general election with less than 1 of the popular vote separating the two. George wallace finished third in the race. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. My fellow americans. My fellow democrats. I proudly accept the nomination of our party