I stand before you without a single pledge or promise or understanding of any kind except for the advancement of your cause and the preservation of american democracy. And as your nominee i expect to conduct by crusading an aggressive, fighting campaign. The republicans in we want willkie, Wendell Willkie ran for president in 1940. And as we watch some of the images of him on the campaign trail were joined here in rushville, indiana with David Willkie. I want you to introduce our audience to some of the fervor were seeing from these Iconic Images of the 1940 campaign that really surrounded your grandfather as he ran for president and tried to defeat Franklin Dell know roosevelt who was seeking a third term. What an exciting time in the country. Here wed come out of entering into the great depression, the end of the hoover administration, eight years of the roosevelt administration, roosevelt was president , right at the height of his power and that opened up a time for a dark horse candidate to come outside of the political spectrum. Keep in mind the state of the Republican Party. This was a party that had been defeated by roosevelt in 1932 as he defeated Herbert Hoover, and 1936. What were republicans looking for and why was your grandfather the one they chose . Nobody else had run a third term before, going back to the time of george washington, when washington stepped down no one even dreamed of running for a third term of the presidency. When roosevelt announced that he did. It just changed the whole dynamic of what was out there. Certainly looking at europe, world war ii, the nazis were just marching, going down to the over to northern europe. It opened up a time where the republicans said, what do we do . Hoover was hoping the party would come to him. Thomas dewey of new york, taft of ohio. This is a republican that went for six ballots. But nobody had come from a business side. Nobody had come from the way of how do we create jobs in the economy . Nobody was actually doing that, of any of the other candidates out there, except for Wendell Willkie and he certainly rose up and he had an electric pernl personality, a Magnetic Energy about him that brought people to him. You never knew your grandfather but as you talk to family members who knew him. He died at the age of 52. Well learn more about his life. Why did he decide to run for the nomination. He set the groundwork for a possible president ial bid in 1940. He was always interested in politics from a very young age, even growing up in his hometown of elwood, indiana, just up the road from here. He talked about it in his life, in his childhood, with his parents, when he got to college, to Indiana University, it was always an integral part of his life. We are in rushville, indiana, one of the homes of Wendell Willkie and were inside the Historical Society. Well show you around coming up during the course of the program. I want to turn back here and look at this postcard. And David Willkie, if you could explain exactly what this is, and maybe representative of that campaign. This is a wooden postcard sent through the United States mail, sent from aberdeen, washington by all the people in the town who actually signed the back of the postcard to say we want willkie. We would like to have Wendell Willkie run for the republican nomination for the presidency. What was that Campaign Like . You had willkie clubs, you had boxes with buttons and banners that were distributed around the country and some of those which are on dis play here. People wanted to have something new, Something Different that they hadnt had before, thats where the willkie brand, the willkie name really started to take off. Here was somebody that had challenged the new deal successfully. Had been a strong proponent of individual freedom and liberty. And people were drawn to the message. We are about a block off of main street, and your mother, Wendell Willkies daughterinlaw, lives just a few blocks from her nin rushville, indiana, the significance of this home to your family. It was my grandmother ediths hometown. This was the place they generally called home. In a large part because in the family my great, great grandfather, ediths father had lost his shirt during the depression. And instead of giving his fatherinlaw a handout, what Wendell Willkie did was to buy farmland here in rush county and asked his fatherinlaw if he would manage it. How much time did whendell willkie spend here in rushville . On and off. His family would come back, his wife and son would come back constantly. But during the 40 campaign this was the headquarters. Perspective, indiana, of course in the center of the country, indianapolis in the center of the state. Were in rushville, where is elwood . Well, rushville is in east central indiana, elwood is in the northeastern part of the state, north of rushville about, oh, an hour and a half from here, a little over an hour from indianapolis. In madison county. And why is elwood so important to the 1940 campaign . Well, for my grandfather, what he chose to do in his acceptance speech, to accept the nomination, he held the acceptance speech in the formal acceptance in elwood, indiana and still to this day its the larmest political rally ever in the history of indiana. In the books here, the historical seat, people were honking horns and cheering that the hometown boy was the republican nominee something seen as improbable going into philadelphia. Oh, no question. He was the dark horse. And during that time period, during the nomination speech you had stories of beer cans that were that were many feet high, that were it was such a hot, hot sweltering indiana day that was out there. And so people it was a carnival atmosphere with pins and books and paraphernalia, some that you may see cheer today. David willkie, the grandson of Wendell Willkie. Well be checking in with you during the course of the next two hours as we continue cspans contender series, were coming to you from rushville indiana and well be joined by author and historian amity shlaes, the author of the forgotten man and jim madison, a professor of history at Indiana University. Well show you what the scene was like in elwood, indiana and the speech by Wendell Willkie as i walk to the next room and introduce to our guests coming up in about a minute and a half. I say that we must substitute for the philosophy of distributed scarcity, the philosophy of unlimited productivity. I stand for the restoration of full production and reemployment by private enterprise in america. The new deals attack on businesses have the inevitable results. The investor has been afraid to invest his capital. And therefore billions of dollars lie idle in our banks. The businessman has been afraid to expand his operations. And therefore millions of men have been turned from the employment offices. Low incomes in the cities and irresponsible experiments in the country have deprived the farmer of his market. For the first time in history american industry has remained stationa stationary for a full decade. I charge that the course this administration is following will lead us, like france, to the end of the road. I say that this course will lead us to economic dictatorship. We must substitute the philosophy of production. You cannot buy freedom. You must make freedom. From elwood, indiana in august of 1940, to the Rush County Historical Society here in rushville, indiana, and this is one of the postage stamps from 1992, a 75 cent u. S. Stamp commemorating the centennial of Wendell Willkies birth. Amity shlaes is the author of the forgotten man and a columnist, jim madison a professor of history at Indiana University. Let me begin with that speech that he gave in elwood, indiana that really essentially set the groundwork for why he was challenging Franklin Roosevelt. Yes. Well, willkie ran against roosevelt and against the new deal, and against the kind of policies and politics that were represented by the new deal. I think well have a Good Opportunity to talk about those in detail this evening. Let me just say that it was a fairly standard political speech but not a fairly standard rally. As david said it was a massive rally. 150, some estimates 250,000 people in this small indiana town in augusta time when, as hoosiers say, you can hear the corn grow. It was 102 degrees that afternoon when willkie took the podium. And he spoke with eloquence. And yet the atmosphere was such that the speech was a bit flat in terms of the audience, in terms of the reception. So it wasnt the best start for the actual campaign. And we now know looking back that it was rather indicative of the campaign itself and of some of the disorganization, some of the difficulties that willkie, the amateur newcomer had, in making his case as to why the American People should vote roosevelt out of office and not allow a third term. One note about the speech, a speech heard on the radio by millions of americans. Millions, yes. This is the time of radio, of course and people sat by their radio sets and listened intently to political speeches. Amity shlaes youve written extensively about the new deal and this is eight years after roosevelt promised a new deal for the American People, unemployment still in the double digits, a lot of concern about the u. S. Economy. Why was this the year that the republicans turned to an outsider, probably the only time in modern American History that a nonmilitary, nonpolitician was the party nominee. Thank you. This is an incredible political expression. I do see this speech as an enormous success of some kind because the Republican Party was failing, was failing the country. It wasnt giving an answer to what the democrats had an offer and the democrats as we say werent delivering recovery. The recovery was choosing to stay away. What willkie was, and his popularity as seen on that day, was the expression of the people, the talkback, the gop had never expected a rally like that with Wendell Willkie at the center, their candidate for president a year earlier. So it was a genuine grassroots event of a kind thats fairly rare in the u. S. Where you start way down there and you get to the nomination for president. So let me ask the large question. Why him . And what did he do to try to lay the groundwork that allowed the party to turn to this outsider, this businessman from indiana, who spent some time in new york as the 1940 nominee . It was easy to underestimate willkie, i think, and the professional, longterm career politicians in the Republican Party did just that. They underestimated this fella. He had no political experience to speak of. He never ran for office, never held office, he was a businessman, a lawyer, but very smart and very sophisticated. I think its relevant that his business experience was really, in a way, political experience. He was a wonderful communicator, commonwealth and southern. He knew how to work with people. He knew how to make a case, how to make an argument. The kind of skills that he deployed as a president ial candidate. And yet Alice Roosevelt longworth was quoted as saying it was the grassroots of a thousand country clubs, youre smiling. The Grassroots Campaign is part of the politics of politicking, we the people truly was grassroots in what it intended but willkie was not really an ordinary, common man, he was a very wealthy corporate lawyer and businessman. He was from he had an agricultural interest but he wasnt a farmer. He said he farmed by conversation, not by actually farming. So he was far, far from the grassroots but he tried to appeal to the grassroots of america, the people at the grassroots. Amity shlaes, lets talk about the 1940 convention for a moment. This is a convention that had people like governor harold staszen, the governor of minnesota, longtime president ial candidate, Herbert Hoover, former president who was hoping the party would turn to him one more time. Tom dewey as we talked about with David Willkie, and you had senator robert taft, who was hoping the party would turn to him. We get in trouble when we draw analogies buzz dewey was the prosecutor from new york who overrated himself and we often have new yorkers come out and think theyre going to win, especially when they have a legal background. Taft was mr. Republican, people had heard about him before, taft was a name. We had a president called taft. That was not particularly new and Herbert Hoover was a wonderful man of talent who had become a great vanity and was getting in the way of the progress of the party because he kept wanting to run again but his time was probably fast and probably past. And whats exciting about willkie was a very young man went to hear Herbert Hoover and he couldnt bear the idea that hoover would hog to nomination, hog the party and said let it be willkie, let it be someone ive met and heard about. In that way willkie was grass loot roots. He was not of the grass entirely, as an attorney, but he was chosen by people who were revolting against the party. And the other names we named were the party. And willkie came in, dark horse, somebody different, not who we expected. I think they were tired of unexciting men. For many people, which of these, none of the above. So its a perfect atmosphere for a newcomer, for an outsider who promises, and looks very different from the standard republican standard barer of the late 1930s. What was the state of the Democratic Party, amity shlaes, and Franklin Roosevelt and his support in 1940 eight years after the new deal, at a time when most president s would step down . Well, tongue tied because roosevelts victory, 46 out of 48 states in the preceding election was so hard to get past, and even as the party was beginning to get past it, this idea of having a third term, the war was coming closer, war in 1940 had already been declared in europe. Germans had invaded poland, britain. So all the sudden roosevelt, just when youre going to say roosevelt cant run again, you know roosevelt was a naval president. He was good at war. They knew that. They knew him from world war i when he served the secretary of the navy. He might be a good war leader. So all of a sudden people bit their tongue, or were tongue tied, and didnt protest against roosevelt. But still it was quite amazing that here they were for a third time. In fact, professor madison, the headlines in december of 1940 with Wendell Willkie as the republican nominee. Hitler moving into france as well declaring the victory, the big question was, as you pointed out, Great Britain next, juxtapose the politics of 1940 and the looming clouds of war. It worked very much to willkies advantage that france surrendered to the nazis a couple of days before the Philadelphia Convention began and as amity said, that turned americans attention very forcefully to this war in europe. They didnt want to be a part of it but they knew it might mean they needed a wartime leader. And roosevelt looked a lot better in that context than did any of the republicans. We are coming to you in some of the reins from the Rush County Historical Society in rushville, indiana, about an hour from indianapolis and one of the homes of Wendell Willkie. He was born in elwood, indiana which is to the north of us and as always as we continue cspans the contenders series, we want to hear from you. If you live in the eastern or central time zones, 2027370002. If crow live in the mountain and pacific time zones. There are so many images from that campaign. Ticker tape parades that we dont see in modern campaigns. Why was that significant, and what does that tell you about the support that Wendell Willkie had from certain sectors of the public . Theres no television, of course, so the candidate really has to get out there and the people, willkie spends a lot of time crossing this country on train. And retail politics. In towns and cities all across america, with all the hoopla, with all the stuff that gets people engaged, that gets people excited about the campaign. Was Franklin Roosevelt worried about Wendell Willkie . I think he enjoyed it. We find, if you go back, he says im not going to pretend this is an unpleasant duty for me to campaign. Franklin roosevelt was a warrior, and willkie was a warrior, and both of them girded and enjoyed that process. But yes, he respected willkie as a contender, from the beginning. You see him dropping comments here and there, that one im worried about. Unlike the others. Thats a real contender as well. So he was ready for the battle. Were going to hear from Franklin Roosevelt in just a moment. Who was behind the willkie campaign . Who are some of the names our audience might be familiar with . Willkie had the good sense or the good fortune to meet people in the publishing and newspaper business in particular, people who had who bought ink by the barrel as they used to say. Russell fortune, the editor of forbes magazine, orita van doren, the book editor of the tribune. These people in the publishing world liked him very, very much and were very, very strong behind the scenes in advocating and working for willkies nomination and election. He was a democrat, Wendell Willkie, before becoming the republican nominee. He had more credibility as an outsider, he supported the league of nations, he was a wilsonian, he backed newt baker, a political comer, a democrat up to 1935, you can find documents with willkie associated with democrats. But that in the way gave him more power because he was a dark horse, because he wasnt a party man and because he had become a republican out of conviction. He saw from the inside what was wrong with the democratic philosophy of government when you look at the beginning of his career as a businessman he thought he was a democratic utilities man. And then he gradually came to see that the government was hurting the private Utilities Company and he grew angry. So it was speaking truth to power. Thats what willkie represented. And it was real. He really was angry at what happened to his company, and his shareholders commonwealth and southern. So there was something fresh about it. It wasnt canned. Hed seen his shareholders lose money and his company be hurt. Thats different from someone whos observing from the political sphere. And based on your book, the Unemployment Rate in 1940 was what . The Unemployment Rate oh, the Unemployment Rate in 1940 was ten or below, so its above where we are. Its a little bit muddy because youre moving towards world war ii. But the average Unemployment Rate for the 30s was in the teens. Some people say 14, some say 16, its the difference between terrible and awful. We wouldnt accept it. And it was so long. Wendell willkie talking about unemployment and jobs on the campaign trail in hoboken, new jersey, were going to listen to part of that and then a conversation, part of the recordings of president roosevelt in the oval office from october of 1940, as Franklin Roosevelt discusses the willkie challenge. Things that struck me as i was driving up the streets of hoboken, frankly every store window, that is vacant store window, had pictures of my opponent and his associate on the new deal ticket. I dont know of anymore appropriate place to put those pictures. Campaign really really blew me. He will say anything to please the individual of the audience. The in this morning and he got off tactics of hitler. Based upon the iteration and reiteration of the same thing. So often that after a while people tend to believe it. I think the polls could possibly may be crooked. Theyre going to show willkie, pretty good shape to put out of office. Then theyre going to bad slump. My judgment is that they were going to stop willkie, pick him up, pick him up. From and thats Franklin Roosevelt in the recordings from 1940. Jim madison first of all Franklin Roosevelt the politician, were hearing a little bit of that in this oval office recording. Its probably never had anyone in the white house who was more of a wiley politician than Franklin Roosevelt. He was just superb. He practiced with a skill and ability and a success that has few, if any, rivals. And willkie of course had the misfortune of running against that very, very skillful politician. Was Wendell Willkie consistent on the issues in the 1940 campaign . No, he wasnt. I dont think few politicians are consistent on the issues, and especially in the heat of a campaign and a campaign that started to go badly for willkie, the disorganization, the chaos, the difficulty of challenging roosevelt. And in the last weeks of the campaign he moved toward positions on war and on the new deal that he might not have fully agreed with. That were more harsh, more vituperative than was the true Wendell Willkie. Willkie was inconsistent but we cant downplay his success. He won more votes in that election than any republican had ever won, electorally roosevelt was the wiley fox and had a large number of electoral votes, but the popular was much narrower. So willkie got much closer to the democrat than republicans had before. To the wilyness to the type we just heard of roosevelt, i want to mention that roosevelt really did become worried, thats where you see him worried, thinking about all sorts of things and maybe well hear tonight another tape where he worried about whether he could use willkies mistress as a fact to beat him in the election. Arita van doren, so theres a lot of stuff going on and they are beginning to take the willkie candidacy seriously. That was a feature of the campaign, this very important girlfriend willkie had, his intellectual muse, arita van doren. You write about her in your book. Lets get to your phone calls. For those of you in the eastern and mountain central time zones, 2027370002. For those in the mountain and pacific time zones we are in rushville, indiana and the home of Wendell Willkie, his home is literally just about two blocks, maybe three blocks, first call is kurt from cope lee, ohio, go ahead, please. Caller thank you and good evening, cspan. This is a great program. I hope a lot of people take advantage of this Great Service youre giving to the American People. My question is, well, i have a couple of comments, questions. The first one is being in the suburb of akron, ohio, known as copley, i wanted to know more about Wendell Willkies role as an attorney for the good year tire and Rubber Company where he, during that time was heavily involved in akrons city democratic politics, and my second comment is with Wendell Willkie being the dark horse candidate at that time in 1940, do you see history kind of repeating itself 72 years later with the emergence of herman cane as the new dark horse for the Republican Party with no political experience and a business background, that sort of thing, and hes starting to look better compared to gorn romney and governor perry and all the others that are basically career politicians . Kurt, two good points, thanks for the call. Lets talk about akron, ohio, he grew up here in indiana, went to ohio, ultimately ended up in new york, but ohio was a key part of his career. He followed the Economic Growth. Thats what happened. So why did he go from indiana to ohio . Because rubber was there, because tires were there. And whats astounding when we think of our cities now when he got to akron he couldnt find a bedroom. It was that packed. In the automobile boom. He parked on a chair the first night if you read it in the biographies. It was so tight, growing so fast with the Automobile Industry so in a way that tells you a lot about willkie and what he was for. He was for Economic Growth and from there to new york, first with a law firm to serve a new industry, the internet of their day, utilities and then to head that Utilities Company. Herman cane was on the fox news channel, the Republican Party has not nominates a businessman since Wendell Willkie, direct connection to the callers point and earlier to herman cane. Thats a very interesting connection, i like when people make connections between present day politics or issues and past. Im a little reluctant to do that except to say this, that its still too early to identify the dark horse because at this point in 1939 and the fall of 1939 very, very few people had ever heard yet of Wendell Willkie. Many thought he was still a democrat. Willkie bnt didnt emerge until the spring of 1940. Following the format here wed have to wait until spring of 12 to know if we have a dark horse. And, of course, one obvious difference, the conventions of 1940 are very different from the convention in 2012. Its the outcomes were less certain than now because they really did we seem to be more settled in our primary system when they get there, theyre just counting it up, what already happened. Ron is joining us from marysville, washington, the president ial campaign of Wendell Willkie, the 1940 republican nominee. Go ahead, ron. Caller yes, thanks for tabing the call and for having this series, which is outstanding. I just wanted to provide three corrections or clarifications to statements that have been made. Number one, it was a statement that roosevelt was the first president to contemplate a third term. Actually, Woodrow Wilson contemplated it as documented in his recent biography by john milton cooper. May have been delusional, but he seriously contemplated it even after his stroke. Your historians can correct me on this, but im pretty sure, roosevelt, fdr was assistant secretary of navy, not full secretary. And third, willkie, i dont think, was the first nonpolitician republican nominee. I think you could i would classify hoover as being in that category, even though he did hold a cabinet post of secretary of commerce, never an elected politician, nor did he serve in the military. Thank you. Ron, thanks for the call and thanks for the points. First on Herbert Hoover and also on Woodrow Wilson. Herbert hoover was secretary of commerce before he was the 1928 nominee, and Woodrow Wilson, the point about whether he was serious about a third term in 1920. Well, im just writing the biography of calvin coolidge. Im in the period when wilson is ill after his stroke and wilson and wilsons crowd thought about a lot of things, but it was clear to the party that he couldnt be the next president. So thats a little bit of a different category. We didnt say roosevelt was secretary of the navy, we said he served the secretary of the navy but we appreciate the callers precision. Indeed. And james is joining us next from stanford, north carolina, go ahead, please. Caller i just wanted to comment that in the fall of 1940 Wendell Willkie did a whistle stop tour through florida. And i happened to be Western Union trainee at melbourne, florida, he came through and he was on the rear platform of the train and there were about a crowd of 50 or 60 people and i had the opportunity to shake hands with Wendell Willkie. That was either september or october of 1940. Just a comment i wanted to add. Very interesting. Jim, do you remember, as you saw him on that whistle stop tour, what you thought when you saw him campaigning . Any impressions . I was a kid of 18 years old. And i just was in awe of, heres a guy who could be president of the United States. I really looked up to him. Im 89. Then i was 18 years old, just a kid. I was really visibly impressed with him. He made a majestic appearance on the back of that train. It was really something, very, very special. James, thanks for the call. Jim madison, these are some of the images the audience is looking at as the crowds swarmed around Wendell Willkie. He also used the media, a couple of points that nbc radio carrying almost 30 hours of the Republican Convention in philadelphia, television was introduced at the 1940 convention, viewers in new york and schenectady and a few other cities could see the 1940 convention and of course the Republican Party put together some ads that were used in Movie Theaters around the country. Yes, politics is always changing, theres always new techniques and new possibilities and new media. And willkie was very astute in using that. It was part of his experience as a businessman to use the media and to work with Public Relations and opportunities and ways of making your case. He was excellent at that. Helped by, again, the kind of people he had around him in the campaign who were the best of the best in the media business. Now, he was not a farmer. But he went after the agriculture vote. He did. The agricultural vote is very important, still, in 1940. There are a very, very large number of farmers in america and theyre very important. They vote. And farm policy and Agricultural Policy is central to president ial elections. So any president expecting to have a chance of victory must Pay Attention to that and thats why we see these photographs of willkie here in rushville, standing in front of a cornfield, or in front of pigs, some wag said that all the hogs in rushville began to pose as soon as the camera showed up because they were so accustomed to willkie and the hogs and corn as the objects of photographers attention. In one of the photographs hes wearing a suit next to a farmer inspecting the corn. He was quite honest. One of the nice things about willkie was that he was honest in all sorts of ways including never actually pretending he was, indeed, a farmer. So the major issues in 1940, what were they, amity shlaes . They were the war. Are we going in . Do we have to go in . If london is to be bombed, maybe we have to go in, even though we remember that world war i was such a horror. So thats got to be number one. War always trumps economics. Two, the economy. The recovery that had chosen over and over again to stay away. So those are the big ones. And i wanted to add one thing about willkie, we know the phrase happy warrior. We know it from the democrats, roosevelt, al smith, that to be a happy warrior is to be a winner in politics. Willkie was a happy warrior. Though he could get a barb or two in he was basically not a vicious man and what the gop had learned in the 30s was just they failed through bitterness. They failed through the Liberty League and so on, all the attacks on the new deal were bitter and angry, not born of experience or truth. So willkie represented a new way of being for the party, not just to sneer at roosevelt, but to take him on with facts. And without too much add homonym. I dont know if you call that media or character. If you went to a Movie Theater in 1940 you very well could have seen this ad put together by the Republican National committee for Wendell Willkie. Whether you are in oregon or florida, a vegetable farmer in new jersey or california, or a wheat grower of kansas or minnesota, you have a right to know how well your republican candidates for president and Vice President understand agricultural problems, and their personal interest in farming. For this purpose this Motion Picture has been produced. The two most talked about men in American Life today are the central figures of this farm picture. Wendell l. Willkie of indiana, and charles l. Mcnary of oregon. Mr. Willkie visits with a family of one of his operating partners, louiebergamire, at his left is fatherinlaw of mr. Willkie as manager of the farms. Its a hot day. And mr. Willkie refreshes himself at the old pump before his tour of inspection begins and he doesnt let a fence stand in his way either. These are not hyde park estates, these are practical corn belt farms his interest in 4h club work and in American People is genuine. In them he sees the future of america. From the Republican National committee, and amity shlaes, i want to ask you, he described himself as a liberal and this is an important point to understand, liberalism in the 1940s, a very different term how we view it today. The when willkie said liberal, he meant the liberalism of the individual, your individual rights, maybe your human rights, that was a big issue for him, not the liberalism of the group, not the progressive bloc and he saw an opposition there. So thats quite different from liberalism thats progressive where we have blocs such as farms, such as veterans, such as Senior Citizens and we hand things out to them. Thats what he was seeking to define. Especially in the middle of the 30s, later 30s as he was becoming a political personality, 38. Richard is joining us from wellington, florida, go ahead with your question with amity shlaes and jim madison. Caller yes. You mentioned the Important Role of the publication houses in new york and henry louis and so on, i recently visited the special collections at Georgetown University and went through the willkie files. I was very struck by the role in the campaign of people like john hay whitney, William Harding jackson, the managing director of jh whitney company, Investment Bankers and of william mcill vain in the chicago krar. Id like to know if you would talk a little bit about their role in the campaign and more broadly the level of support from melbourne and jh Whitney Companies in new york that stem from mr. Willkies time in new york in 49 and maybe before that. Thank you so much. Richard, in 1939, he passed away in 1944, and his years in new york and those that supported him. He was a corporate man who worked in southern, which was a company put together to wire the south in the United States. It had a Corporate Mission and a Business Mission and a service mission. The other corporations, they were on wall street, and they all knew each other. It wouldnt be surprising if you hear names like that associated, but not all Establishment Republicans with money worked for willkie. On the contrary, many worked for the other names we heard, so it wasnt as if wall street decided and willkie was very late and some of them came around when they saw he would be the candidate. Thats different. So youll see people jumping in at varying points. The sale of the tba and that impact it had on Wendell Willkie as a businessman and his view of government, can either of you address that issue . Well, what happened was commonwealth its the story really that starts in the 20s. The south is dark. The rest of the country is beginning to be lit up. How do we light up the south . The Company Commonwealth and southern was put together to supply the answer. A company can do it. We will do it, and it was a bit of governance orchestration because we had different laws in the states then, but they thought they could do it and they went on the stock exchange. That was when the dow jones first started, the dow jones utility index. That was the internet of the period. Another view coming from the government was the government should supply the power. Well light up the south and the tba, Tennessee Valley authority which he developed. He found himself in the wrestling match with david blumenthal, one of the heads of the tda about who would light up the south. Willkie said at the cosmos club, the gentleman lawyer from indiana, it happened that the tda went to depaul and there they are trying to make friendly like two lawyers. Willkie essentially to paraphrase said lets split up the south, my company will do some and your company will do some and he basically said when we go back to his diaries. He doesnt get it. The government the take over at all and that was the battle that was wedged through the whole period and eventually much of commonwealth in southern was sold to the government and thats what were speaking of, the big check with the photographs and willkie was declared the victor and the shareholders of commonwealth and southern got money from the government. But the question was, was it really the victory or the annihilation of the private sector in the marketplace of the future, utilities. And purchased for the price of 75 million. He got a big check. He took it all around to show his friends. It was exciting. But im not sure it was a victory for the private sector or even for the shareholders of the utility company. Ruth is joining us from new york city, and we welcome you into the conversation as we look at the life and career of the 1940 campaign of Wendell Willkie. Go ahead, ruth. Caller thank you so much for taking my call. It seems like during every president ial election cycle, pundits will invoke Wendell Willkies name. Im curious what it was about his candidacy that still resonates in todays political environment. Well, i would say, ruth, that its the freshness and the newness thats inevitable with the dark horse standard that weve been talking about. This is someone who was so different from taft and others, so vital, so energetic. He seemed so honest. One of my favorite little stories about him is that at a time even then when religion was sometimes important and candidates were expected to be churchgoers, willkie when asked said i generally sleep in sunday mornings. Thats a kind of honesty that many people found refreshing in 1940. There is a piece that i want you to comment on thats in the adjoining room from Newsweek Magazine from 1968, and the piece said could it be another year of Wendell Willkie, a year in which republicans were dissatisfied with the expected nomination of richard nixon. We have that every few cycles. The Republican Party is a particularly ossified party and i would say more tends towards that. When it gets tired of itself, someone comes from outside. Its also that the Republican Party is more affiliated with business and enterprise and enterprising people tend to turn out to be republicans because theyre from the private sector so that will always be a factor, too. But who is the 68 republican youre thinking of . That was from newsweek article. Did he come . He never came. Were still waiting for Wendell Willkie. He excited democrats, too, because he pushed roosevelt over into the war, to put it simply. Willkie saw the war had to happen because what was going on in europe was wrong. It was we had to help fight the bad nazis, and he was on the cause, you know, on the right side on that. So thats refreshing, whatever party youre from, whenever someone comes in and tells and speaks the truth about an important and difficult issue. I think people will thats what people remember, that he forced roosevelt to do what roosevelt knew was the right thing to do, which was go to war. He made roosevelt be a better roosevelt. More from Wendell Willkie as he talked about the point you brought up earlier, liberalism and the roosevelt new deal and this, another from the Republican National committee, a series of films used in Movie Theaters in the 1940. Have attempted to picture me as an opponent of liberalism. But i was a liberal before many of those men heard the word and i fought for the reforms of Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson before another roosevelt adopted and distorted the word liberal. American liberalism does not consist in reforming things. It consists primarily in making things. We must substitute for the philosophy of distributed scarcity. The present administration has spent 60 billion. The new deal stands for doing what has to be by spending as much money as possible. I propose to do it by spending as little money as possible. This is one issue in this campaign that i intend to make Crystal Clear before the conclusion of the campaign so that everybody in this country may understand the tremendous waste of their resources and money that have taken place in the last 7 1 2 years. Amity shlaes, as you hear the words of Wendell Willkie and you see him in the campaign, what are your thoughts . Well, the first is that that liberalism which he describes, which he differentiates from progressivism, modern liberalism, what we say liberalism when we hear it on Television Goes all of the way back to the germany of his family. His family left europe in 1848 or soon after as basically social democrats or liberals to get away from militarism. So thats a european liberalism which is all about the individual and freedom coming straight through down as a tradition in the United States and some of us would call willkie the last, liberal because he was the last big, Classical Liberal in u. S. Politics like that. Reagan didnt call himself a liberal. Maybe he called himself a libertarian. The word changed in meaning in the u. S. So that was the first. The second was the economic sophistication of what willkie was saying and that does come, and from the point of view from the firm, productivity is really important that we not only make the widgets, but we make them better and that that will increase the standard of living for everyone instead of redistributing. Which is the alternate. That a clear, accurate and sophisticated economic argument. Its not about just helping the middle class. Its more complex than that. More complex from what we hear. Amity shlaes and jim madison. Next call from moorestown, new jersey. Go ahead with your question. Caller good evening. Did he feel he got support from election rivals, taft, hoover, or was he too recently arrived in the party than a veteran politician had. Youre shaking your head. I dont think he got the support from the professional politicians. A little aphorism, on learning of willkies nomination, its all right if the town prostitute wants to join the church, but she shouldnt be asked to sing a solo on the first sunday in church. He was an outsider to politicians and they never, ever trusted him, never got behind him. To go back to ellwood, north of where we are in rushville, he said you republicans. How did that resonate with the Republican Base . I think some of them noticed they were call you, rather than us or we. He wasnt a republican a year or two prior, he was a democrat. Charles joining us from savannah, georgia. Welcome to the program. Go ahead, please. Caller thank you. Thank you for doing this program on Wendell Willkie. I think its important. I believe he was far ahead of his time on many issues. First of all, civil rights. He was way ahead on civil rights. If the country followed his lead on that issue, we would have avoided a lot of strife and dissension in later decades. During the war he was a great advocate of ending colonialism. He wanted to prevent European Countries from reestablishing their empires in the third world, particularly france and indochina. If we hadnt stepped into the shoes of the french in indochina, we would have avoided the tragedy in vietnam and all the tragedy that brought to us. I want to mention you heard in the acceptance speech willkie gave, he was a great believer in the idea that government should not be the enemy of business, the way to fight unemployment was to encourage investment and growth. Thats the only way we could get jobs in this country. Thats still relevant today. I would be interested in hearing the groups Panel Discussion about those points. Thank you, charles. Amity. One thing that resonates from one world, when we look at it today, that was his book that sold so tremendously well about this time. When he went to the middle east, he said the colonials here are too dominant. When they withdraw, there will be a vacuum. There will be nothing for the people to turn to. We need to help them build democracies. And the u. S. Had a cavalier attitude towards the middle east and weve seen whats resulted. When you hear the protesters today you if back and look at the errors we made in the 40s and 50s, not that seriously, squandering that opportunity. His description of tehran and the number of babies that died because the water wasnt clean and the tyranny of the regimes very much gets close to what we see now when we go to many places in the middle east and what we havent been able to address systematically. He was like an analyst of the arab spring so many years ago writing in one world it strikes you. Please, go ahead. Caller yes. Within six months of the election of 1940, willkie was totally unpopular with the republicans mainly because he had adopted roosevelts Foreign Policy as prowar and the Republican Party just ostracized him completely, no matter how well he did in the previous election. When he toured europe for roosevelt, he went over to asia. Republicans just hated that, the regular republicans. I think of all stripes. He called his campaign on Foreign Policy statements as Campaign Oratory before a congressional hearing in 1941. He ran again in 1944 for the nomination but he had so embittered the republicans by becoming roosevelts almost Foreign Policy agent that he had no chance against dewey. But he really was proroosevelt with regard to Foreign Policy. For purposes of the campaign, he took an opposite position. But after the election, he came around and, you know, really endorsed roosevelts Foreign Policy, went over to england to tour on behalf of roosevelt. In 1944 roosevelt and willkie had met and i think roosevelt wanted his endorsement. Willkie held off and he did before the election he died. So he never endorsed dewey or roosevelt. John, im going to jump in, you bring a number of key points. Thank you for phoning in. Were going to talk about this book one world and his post1940 campaign visits to europe and his relationship with frankly roosevelt. Lets touch on the fall campaign, if we could. In the next hour were going to focus much more on the second part of your phone call. But the 1940 fall campaign, he went in with such great promise, did not have a lot of the support of the republican establishment. You touched on this earlier. Basically, what happened, how did this unfold. I think we need to acknowledge. Im not sure weve done that yet this evening. Roosevelt had liabilities going into the campaign. While he had won in a landslide in 1936, the Congressional Elections in 1938 produced i think 81 new Republican House members voting against roosevelt and the new deal. There was the courtpacking plan which created a lot of bitterness, even among democrats in america, and then there was as we talked about this notion that two terms was enough and thats all that was good enough for washington, ought to be good enough for roosevelt. Thats more than just following the rules. Thats indicative of what some of his critics within the Democratic Party as well as republicans thought about his arrogance, power, and the Big Government that he had recreated. So roosevelt had liabilities in 1940. Willkie, a republican, might have been able to beat him and maybe willkie was the best possibility of doing that. And willkie didnt do it in part because he was so inconsistent. By the end, they said he was running against his own former positions as much as against his opponent. And he didnt have a track record politically. Right. But he was prounion, he was with john l. Lewis. He supported the war and then was against it. He was inconsistent. I decided that the best way to see him is as a wonderful attorney who takes the best case, the clarifying case and speaks truth to power about it. The case for the market and the company was the one he made at the end of the 30s. In the campaign he took several different cases, all good ones, which conflicted with one another and later tonight well talk about great cases that he represented that we still prize today, his positions and what he did. To see a consistency there, he always stood for free markets or he was always for war or no war, its not there. He often right and canny in the switch. That didnt make for a Perfect Campaign however in 40. That did hurt him. By the end they could see he was like roosevelt. Much more to talk about as we move into our second hour. This is from the Republican National committee as a way to try to frame the childhood and roots of Wendell Willkie and well talk to David Willkie about his grandfather. And so Wendell Willkie emerges and responds to the support. His grandparents like the ancestors fled europe. His parents taught school and then practiced law. Wendell willkie was born in a modest home like millions of americans. He went to the public grade in High School Just like millions of americans. His hardworking parents moved to this home from which Wendell Willkie went onto win success in law and business. Just some of the scenes from elwood, indiana, the birthplace of Wendell Willkie. David willkie is his grandson. Many say the resemblance is amazing. Do you think that you look like your grandfather . Not quite exactly. I think of myself as my own person. What kind of a man was Wendell Willkie . Describe his persona and what your family views him as a politician. Just physically, he was a large man. And he was some called him a big bear of a man. His brother was a heavyweight wrestler in the olympics. As far as him, he always was tasselled. He would put on a suit. It would become rumpled. He could never keep his hair straight. His wife would have to tell him when to get a haircut. He wasnt so worried about those outward appearances. What he was worried about was the idea, how do you convey the idea . Whats important about it . How do you win people over to your side . Explain his indiana roots and also where he went to college and how he began his career here as a lawyer. He grew up in elwood, indiana, interesting thing about him and his parents and his family was that not only was his father a lawyer, but his mother became one of the first attorneys in indiana and her first case was against his father. Husband and wife against each other. And at the end of the day his mother one. Not surprising because she was a true driving force in the family. Most of the family well, all of his siblings went to Indiana University and they lived together and they were a vibrant part of the community of Indiana University, loved being on campus, the intellectual conversations that came out of there, you had the governor of indiana that was there at the same time and was friends with him. After he finished up Indiana University, he took a job teaching history in kansas. He also coached basketball. Now, i never think of him as being truly the athletic person. Coming from indiana, i think thats one thing we have, we always like to think of ourselves as basketball players. He did that for a time before coming back to Indiana University and going to law school. And when he went to law school, he was always challenging the thought process that was there. He was the top of his class and at the end, when he graduated, he was giving the speech to his whole commencement class and he chastised both the indiana general assembly, the legislature here in indiana, but also the Supreme Court at the time. It was so scandalous that the university didnt know what to do. They delayed giving him his diploma for several days while they debated what to do and eventually let him go on. But he was always one to challenge the status quo. Were moving into the radio, film and television age. We have a chance to really hear these individuals speak and Wendell Willkie seemed to have a very strong speaking personality. David, can you elaborate on that . Yes, absolutely. He was always forefront. He was drawn to the cameras you see during the clips that youve shown. It was a new medium and he relished in it. He relished in talking about different ideas to both in causal conversation but then on the larger stage too. When people were paying attention to him, its almost that he got more energized along the way. Your grandmother was Edith Willkie. How did the two meet . The two met at a wedding here in rushville, indiana, just right up the street from where we are now. They were both in a mutual Wedding Party together. He was drawn by her. She was a librarian by training. Intellectual in her own right. And there was a natural romance that bloomed. Were coming to you from rushville, indiana. David willkie is the grandson of the 1940 republican president ial nominee, one of 14 individuals that cspan is focusing on as we continue our contenders series. Wendell willkie, the outsider, getting the republican nomination on the sixth ballot in philadelphia and well get more of your phone calls coming up in the next hour. Our two guests from the rushville Historical Society. Lets take you to the scene here in rushville in november of 1940 just down the street at the durbin hotel where many of the reporters gathered to follow the 1940 campaign as Wendell Willkie came out to declare that Franklin Roosevelt was going to be elected to a third term. Well follow that with a conversation we had a few weeks ago with indianas senior senator on Wendell Willkie and his brand of Republican Party politics. People of america, i accept the result of the election with complete goodwill. I know that they will continue to work as i shall for the unity of our people in the building of a national defense, in aid to britain, and for the elimination from america of antagonisms of every kind to the end that the free way of life may survive and spread throughout the world. After that, he really became an ambassador for the United States. He was not a bad loser, he was a winner in terms of our country and his outlook. His ability, really, to influence public views and other countries about the United States, or correspondingly, american views so that we would not become isolationists, not become withdrawn. The thoughts of senator dick lugar and how he viewed the Republican Party. It appears as if he expected to lose . Well, the Campaign Began to go against him in october and so the results, i dont think, were a shock at all to Wendell Willkie or anyone who was following the campaign, no. Postelection, this relationship began to grow between president roosevelt and Wendell Willkie. Its amazing. All of roosevelts relationships with others are hard to nail down. But willkie and roosevelt did move closer and closer together until willkies death in 1944 particularly in areas of Foreign Policy, in supporting Great Britain before the United States went into the war. One thing you notice when willkie goes to europe on a tour for roosevelt as his ambassador, the famous tour in 1942 is that he repeats the same behavior he did at his law school graduation. Roosevelt has given willkie a stage and meets with stalin, and he hears something from stalin needs help and willkie says, maybe europe this war needs a second front. That was not the u. S. Policy at all to have a second front. He was dissing the person whom he was representing. He was an ambassador who dissed his president. That was not the plan to have a second front for stalin. You see that was the upstart in willkie. He called it as he saw it. When he got to russia, he said, well these people need help sooner. They cant wait for the armies to march up and so on. Throughout liz lihis life he pl that role and roosevelt was able to manage an upstart like willkie. Lonnie is joining us from phoenix, arizona. Caller good evening. Well, i would like to point out to your audience that youre getting a very onesided economic argument on tonights program from your panel. Shes certainly entitled to her opinion, but shes a well known revisionist historian. Shes several times repeated on tonights program that canard, because unemployment was in the low teens as of 1940, the knee deal had failed. I would like to point out that in her book, she concedes that roosevelts experiment had in fact worked. She writes, quote, the spending was so dramatic that finally it functioned as keynes hoped it would. Unemployment dropped from 14 to 10 . It was still too high. To say that when roosevelt came in with unemployment in the mid to high 20s and due to spending has reduced it to the low teens is just unfair. Shes made a career canards and needs to be pointed out. I dont really think we need to get too personal about this. Whether youre a democrat or a republican, we see both parties, the obama administration, an average Unemployment Rate for 14 , thats not acceptable now whether youre a democrat or the republican. There wasnt that much keynesian spending. So the caller is sort of excising a little bit of what i wrote and giving an interpretation i did not intend nor was visible in the text. The 30s were a made period. The government didnt bring recovery. We sort of appeared to recover by the war but nobody calls a war a recovery. Its a war. Thats all there is to say, yeah. I think the new deal was phenomenally successful. My grandfather was a dirt poor farmer at the beginning of the knew deal and a dirt poor farmer at the end of the new deal. He wasnt a historian, but as a historian, i think the new deal achieved great prosperity and necessary regulation of government. I dont think thats the central question we want to talk about. I would much rather talk about willkie after the election because i think theres interesting issues to cover there. Well go to william, first, from florida. Go ahead, please. Yes, just as a footnote to history of the 1940 campaign, one of the most politically courageous strong reporters supporters, rather, that willkie had in 1940 was a friend of mine, and sara kus is in the middle of the state. It took a great deal of encourage to defy the state political establishment. Unfortunately when willkie lost, dewey left no stone unturned to drive him out of political life and he tried to help willkie get going again in 1944 but eventually he said to me, well, my mistake was i bet on a man with a weak heart. But it should be remembered that he had a very, very Strong Political supporter in the center of new york state and a friend of mine and i just think thats a footnote to the whole thing. Thank you for the call. You bring up an important point that we touched on in the last hour. The relationship in 1940 and 1944 between tom dewey and Wendell Willkie. Not a happy relationship. I dont think they ever reconciled nor as we said earlier did many of the professional politicians. The best indication of that is the 1944 Republican Convention, no one bothered to invite Wendell Willkie to speak or even to be a delegate. He was not there. He was exercised by the party. Another aspect of the roosevelt administration, the lend lease program. What was that . Before we went in, we agreed to help. So we gave money, loaned money, to europe, sent arms, so that england could defend herself. Thats the simplist way to put it. And eventually we went into the war, pearl harbor and that was an important spending program. Thats an example of one. One of the things thats happening in this period is up until 1938 or so, 39, roosevelt is fighting with business. Hes chasing them John Maynard Keynes said, why dont you either nationalize them or leave them alone. Whats the use of ep sodically chasing them around the lot every other week . So he was always the tiger who scared business but then suddenly he needed business to wage his war. And instead of being the enemy, the occasional target, there they were in the white house making aluminum, not being prosecuted, making airplanes and boats, making material for europe and the u. S. And that was an important change for business. They knew they were allies of the government instead of antagonists. Thats an important feature in the recovery of that period. In 1941, Wendell Willkie travels to london. How unusual is it for a republican or democratic president to select his republican opponent to do this job very unusual. He carries a letter of introduction to churchill from roosevelt and willkie sees london at a time when it has already been badly battered by the german luftwaffe. He sees canturbury. He brings that message back to the senate and makes a powerful case for helping england through lend lease. Hes a portion of his testimony. Wendell willkie before congress. If we are to aid britain effectively, we should provide her with five to ten destroyers a month. We should be able to do this directly and swiftly rather than through the rigamarole of legalistic interpretations. Im as much opposed as any man in america to undue power in the chief executive. And may i say i did my best to remove that power from the presidency executive. Personally i would have preferred to see congress whether through this bill or through others, structure the president to lend or lease these things. February 1941, what was the country going through and what was Wendell Willkie thinking as he testifies before congress and realized whats been happening throughout europe, especially in london . When we came out of world war i, this is a country that said never, never again. Its senseless. There were 30 or more of the veterans were disabled in some way from world war i and americas set its mind against war and yet when we had the evidence and thats what willkie was bringing home of what was happening to britain so like us in many ways a the evidence of hitlers utter audacity with poland and on and on and on, suddenly we knew we had to help. And so that was a big emotional change for the u. S. That was the reason for the republican isolationism. There was a sense to league of nations and isolationism because world war i had been so incredibly wasteful of lives and resources in every way. But there comes a moment when you have to step in and willkie crystalizes that for us. Richard is joining us from San Francisco as we look at the life and career of Wendell Willkie. Go ahead, richard. Caller hello. Ive enjoyed tremendously your authors book on the knnew deal. There were books written many years ago, but shes taken up those that have some doubts. But one of the previous callers attacked you from the left. I would like to ask you from the right. I dont understand the love affair you have with Wendell Willkie. I just dont comprehend it. In the case of Foreign Policy, particularly after the war started, he was an absolutely disgrace. Going to the soviet far east and looking at a forced labor camp and saying how wonderful conditions were, its a bit much. And i would have thought that the republicans would have been better served by someone who had a little more level head as far as our International Commitments were concerned, particularly after the beginning of the war. At the same time i think its a bit much to champion a republican who the base really was very resentful of. So at any rate. Thats my two cents. Ill hang up and listen to the comments of the author. Thank you. Richard, thank you for the call. Is that sentiment typical of what many republicans felt . A lot of republicans would have said pretty much that thing and maybe in stronger words than that. They called willkie naive. They felt he was taken in. He was just a tourist. He was inexperienced and just not up to the level of International Diplomacy and knowledge. And yet he had received more votes than hesrbert hoover in 1932. He received a lot of votes for someone to allege that he had no support. This whole party, this whole Television Show is a love affair with Wendell Willkie because hes interesting, on a number of levels. That doesnt mean hes perfect. That doesnt mean hes consistent. As we said before, hes like an attorney. He moves from case to case and those cases are not always consistent. In the forgotten man book, he spoke truth to power, important point. Narratively, that was important for that book. Every book is different. But i do like Wendell Willkie. We will all persist in liking him. Were making a Cartoon Version of the forgotten man book and the artist who is an expert cartoonist made a bust of Wendell Willkie. He got so inspired by him. Theres something about willkie inconsistent as he is, disappointing as he is, that is very alluring to people. I think because he talks about whats possible, not merely whats realistic. So hes an aspirational figure for us at many points and in many different ways. Richard norton smith who have been working with us on this series said that Wendell Willkie is the personification of this 14part series, an individual that americans may not know a lot about but had a Significant Impact in his time. I think thats a very good point. I think at his best, willkie brings us to our better natures. Willkie asks for of us. And thats one of the things that i like most about him. He holds out the ideals of america and ultimately the ideas of the human race, of the condition of the world. So theres a lot to like about willkie, even if you might want to think hes naive and uninformed at times. Bill is next. Go ahead, please. Caller i take you back to the glamour and the excitement of that day in philadelphia at the convention hall. I was there. I was there with my father who had a unique involvement at the convention. He sort of orchestrated what was known as the stampeding of the gallery. And as a kid, i was up there with instructions on the queue to rise up and begin the chant of we want willkie. Of course, this was before television. Well, television had just come on the scene. But it was from a National Standpoint and particularly for the delegates to hear this raucous crowd from the gallery stampeding a convention, it put them in the mood. Although it did take a number of ballots to ultimately nominate Wendell Willkie. So it was fun. I have never forgotten the experience. Bill, thanks for your call. We should point out, a 26yearold young republican from michigan, gerald ford, also in attendance. And he talked to cspan about that in 2000 as he went back to philadelphia for another Republican Convention. Thats right. Thats right. Did you want to talk about the excitement that willkie generated in the 1940 convention . No, were done. I think were done with that topic. Caller i would like to commend cspan. Its one of the greatest things on the television. I didnt know a lot about Wendell Willkie. This is very interesting. I seem to remember his name was spelled with one l in my history books. I want to ask you, his mistress, you talked about her, was she related to charles or others . She was related to those van dorians. The reason shes interesting is not mere gossip, its because she was his muse. And we talked before about willkies political identity what is a liberal and so on. He began talking to this literary editor at the newspaper, at the herald transcri transcribe bun and he started to write about the whigs because that was his way of thinking about what was wrong with politics in the u. S. And it was too much about groups and too little about individuals and he started to write these articles and she started to talk to arita and his got his political bearings and he began to speak politically and write politically and not write articles but also begin to write manifestos and to meet the people who then began to back him. So sometimes someone comes into your life who is a transition person and arita was to him at that point such a person and helped him to clarify his ideas. Just to draw a connection, in your book, she was involved in Calvin Coolidges book tour. She was a wonderful book editor and she edited many of these people. Theyre figures who appear over and again and coolidge and willkie, im discovering, as i write the biography of coolidge, the great advertising genius bruce barton who wrote of coolidge that he represented the silent majority. Silent majority is a phrase we might associate with willkie a little bit. We associate it with agnew and nixon. Theres a connection that you see with the literary people, the shapers, the markers, the thinkers, the intellectuals around the politicians and those people last a long time. Sometimes through many candidates. I want our audience to listen to one more piece of sound from Franklin Delano roosevelts recordings. This is a time when that was not when it was not common to reveal those relationships, reporters knew about those relationships. Other politicians had them, including roosevelt himself, of course, and the gentlemans agreement was you did not write about that, you did not report that. Whether roosevelt is going to use that against willkie in his campaign is i think what this tape is about. This is, again, one of the recordings with president roosevelt on the relationship, the affair that Wendell Willkie was affair with arita van dorian. Professor, two points, playing dirty politics, the words from that conversation, and the president of the United States wondering whether or not Edith Willkie was hired to come back and campaign with her husband. The second point, i think all of the evidence is that Edith Willkie loved her husband and remained with her husband until the very end. Its also the case that after Wendell Willkies death several years after, Edith Willkie had a party in her apartment in new york city, she invited arita van dorian to the party. Thats their life and their personal life. Another point i want to make, it was a romantic relationship, but it was a very, very important intellectual relationship and she was exceptionally important to his thinking and to his politics and his life. Go next to donald joining us from utah. Go ahead, please. Caller yes, im curious as to why Wendell Willkies relationship with madam chang hasnt been discussed. Ill leave that to the international hoosier scholar to track what happened in china in those 48 hours and the one hour alone when the journalist waited outside thank you for putting that ball to me. I think the answer is, we dont really know what happened. We know that this is on the one world trip in late 1942. And it included a stop in china. And we know that at one point in the evening, willkie and madam shang left by themselves and were gone for several hours. Theres been statements by some people that there was a relationship there, but the evidence for that is very, very tricky. North africa, russia, and china, the one world tour. Explain the significance of this second trip in 1942 for Wendell Willkie. Roosevelt sent willkie on a tour. He went all over the world, including to china, also to russia, to see stalin, also to the middle east. Often to places that were also a little bit tricky, close to the battlefield. Kind of rolled around to the front in an american jeep in russia, actually, with the russian general. He said, what are you all defending here, sir . And the russian general said, were not defending, were attacking. He was close right at the battle and that was an important fortifying expression of hope and support from the u. S. To these countries at that time. China in play at that time. Big trip and the book that he wrote, worlone world was an enormous success. It sold close to a million copies and the old antagonist from the tba, if you look at the correspondence from the library asked wendell, how come your book sold so well, the other politicians, everyone was in awe of what an imprint willkie made with this concept of peace now and one world. Why that happened, we were now in the world. Pearl harbor had happened. We were in the war. And everyone very soon was thinking about what kind of peace we should have after that, right away in world war ii, we were framing how a way to make the world hopefully make it safe for democracy, make the next war and the next world war not come quite so fast, all the ideas that you hear about from the late 40s were formulating in peoples minds and willkie was one of the first formulators. Youve read your grandfathers book. Its Still Available now. Why did it resonate so much so in 1942 43. There are several reasons that it resonated. Number one, he took it upon himself to visit all different war fronts at the same time. Here we were in the Second World War and if we think about that time period, no one person had traveled around the world. Nobody had reported to the American People the struggles of different people around the world. Why were we in this world, why did we keep going through this war. And i want to go back to some of the conversations that were just happened and talking about my grandfather and his development. Over time he did develop. He did change in his thought process of what he went through and i think the American People did too. If you think about the American People, looking at the American People during the depression and moving through into world war ii, this was a different place. And thats where one world came into play. Here was a view into different parts of the world that people hadnt seen before, people hadnt traveled outside of their farms in the way that people are able to do now and so easily. And to talk about these faraway places, whether its baghdad, whether its being on the front with montgomery in northern africa, all of those places came into play and fascinated people. To give you a sense of what the country was dealing with at this time, he said america is living within high walls. I have been outside those walls. And he tells the story of what he saw. Yes, he continued onto talk about at that time one important theme was that the National Boundaries were becoming less and less important. Countries in and of themselves. It was more commerce that was going to rule the day. Thats what i think the connection is that we see now is how that commerce really does come into play. You see that now in the national discussion. Even here in rushville, indiana, you have a company here that is selling things halfway around the world to baghdad right now. We that idea that Wendell Willkie had during those time periods is much of the world that we live in today and thats described in the book. If our audience is interested in reading the book, a book that was published 70 years ago, how can they get a copy . They can email here to the Historical Society. I believe that the email address is up, rushhistorica rushhistorical frontier. Com. This is the same home where Wendell Willkie came back and talked about his one world tour. I want you to remember that we can only have one president at one time and one Foreign Policy at one time. It does no good to say im the president of the United States as was said last night, that he acts through hypocrisy, no man president of the United States at this critical moment could act from such motives as that. [ applause ] the isolationists opposed the expansion of our navy and the expansion of our army. They opposed the passage of the lease lend bill. If the policy which they advocated had been adopted, the United States today would be facing a victorious nazism in a worldwide conflict in which we might ultimately be destroyed. David willkie, as you hear and see your grandfather just a few blocks from where we are, and the message that he was delivering those residents of rushville, indiana, back in 1942, your thoughts . He wanted to bring those thoughts directly here to the American People and to Middle America to say that there are those other places that become so important and i think its common wisdom right now if america had not entered the war at the time that it did, what would have europe looked like at the time . Would hitler continue to have gone on in his conquest . What would stalin have done, kind of following up on that . For Wendell Willkie to be here in rushville, indiana, if he couldnt talk to the people here in rushville, he thought that this was most important to go onto other places, other cities throughout the country. It would be much harder to do. And his remarks, 70 years ago this month, october of 1942, did the book face criticism . It did. It did sell millions of copies. Many people liked it very much, but the criticism was deep and endures in a sense. America was very isolated before the war and there were many during the war who still believed that america was best as america alone and not part of some larger entity like an international organization, the u. N. , as it came to be known. There were Many Americans of this generation who had never been out of the country, who had never been out of the state or even the county in which they were born in. So the lack of knowledge about the world is central to what willkie is trying to do in this book and explaining in clear and forceful language why the people, the farmers of russia, for example, he says this, how the farmers in russia live not very different from the farmers of rush county, indiana. Theyre human beings. And we have some obligation and some interest, selfinterest and larger interest, to understand that and to act on that. We want to thank the rushville Historical Society for hosting us here tonight. Well continue to provide the email, if you want to get more information about Wendell Willkie or interested about getting more information about purchasing the book one world. Back to your phone calls. Wayne is joining us. Good evening. Caller hello . Yes, please go ahead, wayne. Caller im the last surviving member of the Roosevelt White house staff. I was there for a couple of years. I was in the mailroom. I read the incoming mail and the entering into the war was a very heavy issue at that time. The public was very much against it. We received from 7 up to 15,000 letters a day, most of which opposed entry into the war. Only only pearl harbor turned that Public Opinion around. But i also want to go back to the election when willkie gave his concession speech. I will never forget how tired he sounded, how heavy his voice was when he said, i tried my very best to defeat Franklin Roosevelt and i could not do it. He apologized to the nation for not doing so. So i just want to make a comment that i was an actual person involved in the issue at the time. Wayne, thank you. Youve added an important dimension to our conversation. Another amazing call. One thing about one world, the antiu. N. People hate it because it lays out the framework of International Organizations of all kinds, but theres a thick strain of democracy in it. So you see how impet uses came out of willkie. But the push for democracy is very important right up to today and thats thes a astoundingly modern part of one world. Its very similar to the analysis we have today of the problems of the world to finding a way to democracy for people to when theres violence as we saw with kadaffi. Its a hard call because it was so violent. Wendell was looking for these things in one world as well. Just a followup go ahead, kevin, thanks for waiting. Caller could you have your guests speculate on what might have happened had Wendell Willkie won the election. As much as i admire and respect Wendell Willkie, im personally glad that he did not win. We dont know what would have happened. But i think the odds are pretty good that roosevelt was a far better wartime leader, far better prepared and experienced to lead this nation to war than Wendell Willkie would have been. Next call is kevin. Well go to michael next in fargo, north dakota. Yes, i was a little late getting to the program, but as i understand it, Wendell Willkie has never held political office. That made me curious if his Vice President nominee was chosen for political experience to, i dont know, help balance the ticket or how he came about to be appointed. Call. Wendell wilkes first choice was not selected and so it came to the Party Establishment to come to Wendell Wilke and how did this come about and who ultimately did he choose . Well, mcnair was a traditional republican in many ways, far more acceptable than the Republican Party leadership. I think the guess is right on. Jim, in washington, d. C. , youre next. Yes. Very interesting program. I would like to address two questions that were not possibly answered. One was that Wendell Wilke was named in the newsweek article in 1967 as a model for a candidate that year. That model was a candidate in the Republican Party, but he dropped out because he made a remark about the vietnam war, but he was an industrial executive and head of american motors and never really served in Public Office before against nixon, and he did not win. But he did serve as the governor of michigan. Please go ahead, continue, caller. One other quick question. The other president who ran for a third term was grant and stepped out for two terms and was a candidate for the Republican Convention in 188 0. He lost to james garfield, so that is the other president who did seek a third term. Thank you for the call. We also had Teddy Roosevelt who ran for another term under a Different Party after he left the white house. I was very much involved with this with coolidge because coolidge served under harding and harding, unfortunately died and coolidge was Vice President , became president and then won in his own right in 1924, so coolidge could have run for another term, and the same issue confronting roosevelt. Easy call. A republican and democrat always run again when they were a poplar incumbent and coolidge decided not to run attributed to personal depregsz or exhaustion. What i found out in the coolidge bio, he decided not to run because of washington because he saw this over time an executive gets too used to the office and the yes men and that was the concern that people had over fdr that willkie was the expression of, as well that you say the state is moi, me, the more you serve the longer you serve in the office. You can get more information by logging on to cspan. Org or clicking on the contenders series or go to the contenders. Cspan. Org and you will get more on this program and our 14week series, looking at president ial candidates who ran for office, lost, and changed American History. Next is helen joining us from cape may, new jersey. Go ahead, please. Well, im a College Teacher and my students have been assigned to watch and will be so envious that i am getting to speak to amit, and i am so being looking forward to the coolidge book. What was the percentage of the electorate to vote in that election . Was it a big percentage or not . And again, cant wait to read the coolidge book. Well, we do have the Electoral College totals and we know it was a landslide with roosevelt. But we dont know the share of the turnout and we apologize for that. Were going to supply that on our websites within 24, helen. Were sorry. We owe you. Wendell willkie receiving just over 57 million votes. It wasnt a land slight as amite said earlier. David willkie, his view of civil rights in this country, 20plus years before we saw the Civil Rights Movement led by dr. Martin luther king. My grandfather was certainly ahead of his time when it came to thinking about civil rights and the rights of all people. It was part of his creative and it was part of his code, but one of the places that i wanted to show you was just a campaign piece in the 1940 campaign where he talked about just Race Relations in a very direct and raw way, and this was an advertisement that was used in africanamerican press at the time of how he reached out to that part of the electorate. And again, were trying to always get a sense of what was going on in the country and let me ask you specifically in this part of the country in indiana, the kkk and its role in the society here. Certainly the kkk had a very strong presence here in indiana. There was a major push to push them out especially within the Republican Party. People like the helm family was instrumental in that following in the willkie footsteps of what came to be. There was division in small towns. There was an africanamerican population and still continues to be and throughout all towns, but the races didnt mix and didnt intermingle and there was always a fearful nature of it all and that was from Wendell Willkie, and not only his thought process coming beforehand, before the election and also after ward and how that was looking throughout the world on the oneworld trip. What about this aspect of his life, his view of civil rights. I think david is being unduly modest of his grandfathers position on civil rights. He was well advanced of everyone in this country. Perhaps mrs. Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt would be the exception and he was very much ahead in civil rights and it is one world, democracy, anticolonialism and he was strongly opposed and he insisted that colonialism had to disappear in the name of democracy. He insisted that equality around the world could only be achieved if there was a quality of home and he connected this internationally oneword idea with the necessity of justice for all in the United States and he walked the walk. He spevent a lot of time working with the naacp and worked with hollywood filmmakers to remove the horrible racism in the films of the 30s and 40s in all sorts of ways. Wendell willkie was an extremely supportive advocate, long before americans were in that position. John from columbus, ohio. Youre next. You all just took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to say that, you know . I was just about to say what did Wendell Willkie say about the Africanamerican Community, and how racism was and the ku klux klan, and i was, like, wow they took the words i was about to say and i want to say one thing. I love watching the contenders, i love watching every day as a young africanamerican man, with a young family that owns a home and i try to teach my stepson and my daughters and them about the history, about president ial things and you can do i tell them every day. You can make it. You can do it, you know . And im im just thankful that you have this show on here and talking about this great man that, hey, i dont know anything. My granddad is 89 years old and he tells me about history and people and about america, and i am so glad that you said that about the Africanamerican Community in indiana which was a racistass sorry about my language, but was very racist toward africanamericans at that time in the 1940s, and i thank you all so much for bringing this up and please, keep them coming. Thank you. John. David willkie, hes talking about his grandfather and what about your grandfather as you hear that sentiment . He thought that everybody was responsible just from their own meritocracy of what they would do for their own lives and that was part of his dream is this anybody, anywhere in the world should have that individual freedom and that was a core part of his value. He thought that if you helped somebody some place else in the world it would come back and help you, but it was through the hard work and struggle that we will better ourselves here as americans. Going on to the race relation part, certainly, he had a long even after he died, Wendell Willkie, the naacp was housed in the willkie Freedom House in new york city. They kept that mantel that was there just because he was so far out in front of every place else when he was as jim mattison talked about being in hollywood and pushing the ideas of race equality certainly as we look at what came up in the 50s and 66 60s one would think what would be different if willkie had become president. His brand of politics and we asked that question to senator dick lugar, republican from indiana. I doubt whether Wendell Willkie would win today in part because he was what i would call a moderate, end quote, he was a person that was looking out for the good of the whole country, and there was not the same sharp partisan fever attached to his candidacy or to his rhetoric. He had a very sound business attitude and thats why he was successful. He understood the American Free enterprise system and job creation and the things that are very important to us as we have economic recovery now. And amite, the remarks of the Republican Party today . Wonderful comments from the senator. I would beg to differ on whether a businessman candidate would resonate today. He would. Maybe its herman cain, maybe its someone else, but among people looking at both parties is a desire to go down to the bottom level, to find someone who started a firm or works for a firm to come from outside to look at the economy, not from washington. Its a very similar mood when youve had a long period of nonrecovery, you look outside of washington for the answer, quite similar and thats why someone like that would get a reception, i would argue. He ran again in 1944 briefly. And not at all successfully. Because the republican establishment just had no use for him because of his continuing support of roosevelt after the 1940 election, and in fact, was there some talk, not much more than talk of roosevelt who had his troubles with southern democrats of Franklin Roosevelt and Wendell Willkie coming together to form a new Political Party and theres an idea for the future of america. My next call is erica in washington, d. C. , go ahead, please. Hi, cspan. Thank you very much for doing this. Its a great show and i just have a Bigger Picture policy question if we can get back a little bit. I think i understand the types of things that shape Wendell Willkies Economic Voice and background. Were there any specific events and ideas that shape the Foreign Policy and prior to the events of world war ii that came and brought back the point of view . I would mention his family background and willkies presence, was there a story that they tell of the grandfather being beaten and they deplored and came through the rule of law and they wanted to preserve treed om. Did you want to respond to that point . Certainly, within the family its thinking about wendell and his life growing up, being part of world war i in his time period and the army and opened his eyes and the intellectual life of the family. When wendell grew up in the whole family, his father would wake up his children by reading shakespeare quotes every morning and thats how they would start their day. It was a constant era of intellectualism, of thought process that allowed him to look outside of just his own surroundings and elwood, indiana. Duncan is joining us from rootstown, ohio. Go ahead, please. I was just curious about any relationship willkie may have had with hughey long. Are you familiar with that . I know he defended hughey long from governmental charges against him. Willkie defended all sorts of individuals who were unpopular, he defended american nazis and communists. The freedom of speech, the freedom of thought and the right to be an american and hold many, many different kinds of views and very different from his own views. He was in my judgment a hero and great patriot in that regard. Born in 1892 and David Willkie, how did your grandfather pass away at the age of 52 . He had a series of heart attacks at the end of his life. He was a workaholic and he just never stopped, diet, exercise and genetics all that we know much more today about those things certainly played a role in his death. I think Wendell Willkie was an exceedingly hardworking person. He was 24 7. He also lived hard. He smoked and smoked heavily and ive seen pictures with camel cigarettes and we know what kind of coffin nails those are. He drank heavily especially in his later years and did not live as what we now understand was a healthy life. Hes buried a few miles from where we are located. In east hills cemetery, a beautiful site that was described in the new york press as looking out over the prairie although we are not prairielike. It has a book, a stone granite book laying out and talking about how he lived his life and what he thought was the future of the world and what it should be. Talking about the ideas that we mentioned about equality, about that america was the place to be, why . Because in america you could make those dreams come true. If you could ask him one question, what would it be . How do we bring our country together this time so that we have a political process that yields economic recovery . That we get past calling each other names to formulate a policy that gets the country to grow again. Hugo is joining us, stanford, connecticut, welcome to the program. Two very, very fascinating public personages and i was 10 years old at the time and i do remember distinctly both of these personalities and he was the publisher of a newspaper in this country, but i wont get into history. He was an fdr republican, my grandfather. My uncle was a socialist and thats beside the point and the point is i was terribly impressed as a young boy with this man, and even i was also in the political environment and intellectual environment and the educational, historical, et cetera in my family, but this then impressed me a great deal and frankly, he was the reason as i became eligible to vote that i became a respepubli. What disturbs me today is that the willkie republican, frankly, the first time i voted for eisenhower when i was able to vote. Subsequently, i became a young man Republican Club member, Vice President in new rochelle, new york. Subsequent to that out of disillusionment i lost my contact with the Republican Party, and i hate to say this because there were so many elements in the Republican Party personified by Wendell Willkie and dewey and others that impressed me, and i was just wondering among your panelists whether or not they could at least comment on why we have lost the essential, how could i put this. I dont know how to put this in political terms, but i will put it in humanistic terms and how we have lost the fundamental understanding of what capitalism is, Political Association with capitalism is, and ultimately with the nature of whats going on in our society today, particularly . Hugo, thank you for the call and we should point out next week well talk about the personality and political career of thomas duey and well bring you live coverage from the Roosevelt Hotel in new york city. I understand what the caller is saying, i think. There are days when i would agree with him, but overall, most of the time and over the long run, i do not agree with the rather pessimistic view. Im an optimist and my optimism is the hope that there will continue to be candidates that Wendell Willkie offered us in 1940 and especially the David Willkie after 1940. David willkie, what was your grandfathers legacy . Certainly, theres the thought about commerce and to the callers point was thinking about does politics, do they have a place at the same table . As we look at the economic terms that weve got is definitely yes. Thinking about Race Relations or thinking about what it means to bes citizen of the world and understand how the rest of the world affects us here in places like rushville, indiana. All of those come and culminate together to say yes, can an outsider come in and rise to the highest levels . I would argue, yes, it can happen again. Amite, why is Wendell Willkie important . Change the game. Hes a game changer. Count on it. There will be more willkies. Hes not the last willkie. Amit, why, author of the forgotten man and the professor of history here, and David Willkie, the grandson of Wendell Willkie, and the Historical Society, and we thank them for carrying this program here in rushville, indiana. He passed away in the fall of 1944. Here is how the united newsreel reflected on his wendell l. Willkie, republican of t republican of the United States taken at the height of his vigor at 52. Nominated by popular acclaim in a phenomenal overnight rise to political emnance, Wendell Willkie won the admiration of his countrymen for his energy, honesty and forthright courage. He spent the last years of his vigorous life in an effort to promote Mutual Understanding and good will among all nations. He talked with churchill in london and shared experiences with britains average pope. He visited and talked with the people of russia, of the middle east and of china renewing his strong faith in unity among all a Great American and citizen who will be sorely missed in the critical years ahead. Weeknights this month on American History tv its the contenders. Our series that looks at 14 president ial candidates who lost the election but who had a lasting effect on u. S. Politics. Tonight we feature the life and career of republican president ial nominee thomas dewey. Governor dewey lost against president res velt roosevelt in, he remained powerful in the Republican Party. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. Every saturday on American History tv on cspan3 go inside a Different College classroom and hear on upon toics ranging from the american revolution, civil rights and u. S. President s to 9 11. Thanks for your patience and for logging into class. With most College Campuses closed due to the impact of the coronavirus watch professors transfer teaching to engage with their students. Gorbachev did most of the work with the soviet union, but reagan met him half way, reagan supported him. Freedom of the press, madison originally called it freedom of the use of the press and it is indeed freedom to print things and publish things. It is not a freedom for what we now refer to as institutionally as the press . Lectures in history on American History tv on cspan3. Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, lectures and history is available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. Coming up on American History tv, a Campaign Film supporting 1940 republican president ial candidate Wendell Willkie. Well hear speeches from the convention that nominated him, direct appeals by willkie to voters and dramatic scenes with actors portraying the founding fathers