Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing On Sexual Harassment Issues In The Veterans Affairs Department 20240712

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Members will be recognized in order of committee seniority for questioning witnesses today. This will make it easier to ensure that all members participating have an opportunity to be recognized. Does any member have a question about the conduct of this hearing with members participating remotely . Hearing none, i recognize myself for an opening statement. Todays witnesses include va officials and experts with important knowledge and perspectives from inside the department including the acting deputy secretary pamela powers. We will hear from experts at the Government Accountability office. Last week, the gao released a report titled Sexual Harassment inconsistent policies and information hinder va efforts to protect employees. The gao findings provide as gao will testify, the va is not doing enough and the pit hinder employees jobs to do their job correctly. The va a heading in the right direction but its clear that the pace must increase and more work must be done to ensure the safety of all. The Department Must make addressing Sexual Harassment a higher priority. When i read the witness testimony, the department of Veterans Affairs is moving too slowly to address Sexual Harassment. During todays hearing, i will ask why va will take many months and years to implement what seems to me straight forward recommendations by gao. The department has laid out that basic and critical changes involving the managers charge with the reporting Sexual Harassment will not see completion until the year 2024. This is an issue that va itself noted as a problem since two years ago. This panel needs to know why this will take four years to implement. Worse, va has not agreed to adhere to rules about who must be in charge of overseeing major Sexual Harassment policies within the department. The Leadership Structure creates conflict of interest recording how they see the Sexual Harassment process and this must be fixed. The va does not require reporting of all Sexual Harassment complaints results in underreporting and less effective oversight. They hope to correct this by the end of 2021. I joined with eight of my colleagues including the chairs and Ranking Members of both the house and senate Veterans Affairs committee urging the department to implement all of gaos recommendations in that va expedite its you arent timetable. The issue of Sexual Harassment at the va is a priority for me and on both sides of the aisle. I hope we will see a commitment from va along with clear actions they plan to take that prove to us that they too are making Sexual Harassment prevention a top priority. I would like to recognize my colleague general bergman to deliver any operating remarks he may have. Todays thank you is entitled safety for all, ending Sexual Harassment in the department of Veterans Affairs. This is our objective, but it admittedly it is a very broad one. Employee harassment and patient harassment could on their own support separate hearings. One thing that is true for all forms of Sexual Harassment is that all mandatory all the mandatory training in the world will not end it completely. In order to achieve our goal, we need individuals, employees and veterans alike to treat one another with respect in order to change the vas culture. And when Sexual Harassment does happen, despite our best efforts, management must be committed to holding employees and veterans accountable for their actions. Only through accountability can we bring Sexual Harassment at the va to an end. When Sexual Harassment occurs, management is responsibility for insuring that employees have access to programs that are efficient, effective and fair. However, gaos recent report identified numerous issues that are ripe for improvement. First, is the sexual is the Harassment Prevention Program or hpp. Hpp was stood up in 2017 with the intention of preventing harassment before it becomes unlawful. This is a laudable objective and one that i fully support. As gaos report found, va has failed to finalize the protectives and implementing guidance for the 4yearold program preventing it from fulfilling its objectives completely. Its my understanding that hpp is only comprised of nine full time employees. Nine full time staff seems to be inadequate for a Program Supporting 390,000 employees. I hope to discuss vas commitment to this program and get assurances for va that hpp directives and guidance will be finalized this year and that the program will be staffed appropriately to serve va employees across the country. Next, gao found that there is an apparent conflict of interest in vas equal employee opportunity or eeo structure. Specifically, the alignment of the agency eeo director in the office of the assistant secretary for Human Resource and administration. Va did not concur with gaos recommendation to realign the eeo director, a deficienty identified by the eeoc. Moving this potential conflict of interest seems simple to me. However, i understand the department believes it is complicated so i would like to explore why that is. Another area of concern and one not discussed in the gao report is the timeliness of the cases. According to the most recent data reported by va, it takes an average roughly of 1,100 days to process an eeo complaint when the employee requests a hearing before the eeoc. I understand that some of this time is attributed to the eeoc, but three years to process a complaint does not inspire confidence that the system is working efficiently or effectively. In fact, according to gao, the 2016 merit system protection board survey found that only 47 of va employees felt that their charges of Sexual Harassment would be resolved in a fair and just matter. I hope today to explore the ways in which we can increase trust in the system and reduce the time it takes to render a fair and just decision. I now want to turn to patient harassment. It is evident from the testimony submitted in this case that patientonpatient harassment happens frequently. No veteran deserves to suffer the indignities that were described in the testimony. Moreover, we know that 1 in 4 female veterans and 1 in 100 male veterans screen positive for military sexual trauma. After the recent tragic death of Vanessa Guillen who was sexually harassed and brutally murdered by a fellow service member, many more servicewomen and Women Veterans have come forward about the abuse and the harassment they experience while serving in uniform. It is unacceptable that they might come to va, a place intended to heal, and experience similar harassment and abuse by their fellow veterans and or va employees. I take from the vas written testimony an acknowledgement that the va must do more to create a safe and welcoming environment for all veterans. I dont have to tell you the importance of the initiative when attacking problems, when you have to take initiative. As the secondmost senior employee at the department, you have the power to gain the initiative and make real and meaningful change. Veterans, employees and stakeholders are listening and counting on you. Before my time expires i would be remiss if i do not recognize that today is colonel powers first time testifying before this committee. Welcome, and i just want to let you know that did you graduate from the New High School or the Old High School . The old one. The old one was located in prior lake. And we used to beat prior lake on the basketball court. It was one of those competition that is when it was over, we went all out and enjoyed ice cream together. And thats how it should be. Thank you for being here. And with that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, general. I could go for some ice cream after the hearing today and im sure you all agree. We welcome you deputy secretary powers and are pleased that youre here. I would like to turn things over to Julia Brownlee of the womens Veterans Task force for five minutes of opening comments. Thank you for holding this very important hearing today and including the womens Veterans Task force and its voice to the hearing. Yesterday i stood outside the capitol with my colleagues and womens veterans who are demanding justice following the murder of specialist Vanessa Guillen. Guillen told her family that she was being sexually harassed by a fellow soldier before she went missing in april. This story resonates with millions of Women Veterans who have experienced so much trauma and violence at the hands of those who are supposed to have their backs. That includes their experiences at the va. The agency that is responsibility for providing health care and benefits to survivors of Sexual Violence must be a safe place for all who enter its doors. Today we will discuss the prevalence of Sexual Harassment within the va. Much of todays hearing will focus on findings of the Government Accountability Office Report that found that inconsistent and incomplete policies and information hinder vas efforts to protect their employees. The results of the report to me are alarming. I was stunned to learn that the policy and accountability shortfalls regarding harassment of employees are nearly identical to those regarding Sexual Harassment of veteran patients. While i welcome vas acceptance of six of gaos seven recommendations to address harassment, i share the concern that the timeliness will take far too long. Women employees and Women Veterans have shared their experiences of sexual and gender harassment within vas walls for years. And we also know that black women and lgbtq veterans are disproportionately impacted. 1 in 4 Women Veterans experience sexual or gender harassment at va medical facilities across the country. 1 in 3 black Women Veterans experience Sexual Harassment in medical facilities across the country. These numbers are probably far higher because va does not mandate reporting of Sexual Harassment complaints. In their statement for the record, paralyzed veterans of america shared the story of one of their Women Veteran members whose physical limitations made her particularly vulnerable when she was sexually harassed by a male veteran in her hospital room. This kind of trauma causes at least 20 of Women Veterans to delay or skip entirely seeking lifesaving health care. We are out of time and we need corrective action now. If its a resourcing issue, i expect that the va will share with us and with the appropriate tors what they need to meet a more accelerated time line. While i want to recognize the efforts of many in the va, i must also highlight a contradiction in vas testimony which says, quote, secretary wi wilke emphasized in his annual message to all staff, va will not tolerate behaviors that create an intimidating, offensive or hostile environment. Yet we have a culture of misogyny for too many Women Veterans and women employees. In statements for the record for todays hearing, multiple veteran Service Organizations highlighted the case of a woman veteran who happens to be on my staff. In september, while on her way to an appointment she was sexually hazarded at the washington, d. C. , va. Even though the incident took place in a public space, she had to report to four different employees before the police were called. Survivors feel this statement as an attack on all survivors because they dont feel heard, they feel disrespected, and they feel the whole lack of recognition that Sexual Harassment still occurs at an unacceptable rate and the Old Boys Club culture that devalues women persists. Additionally, women va employees are also still experiencing high levels of sexual and gender harassment. A 2016 merit system protection board survey found that the va had the second highest rate of Sexual Harassment of women employees in the entire executive branch at 26 . Yet between 2016 and 2018, the va only resolved 15 cases of Sexual Harassment. The house acted on this issue in november when we passed my bill. The house version includes a provision that would address Sexual Harassment and assault at the va. We Still Need Senate Action on this bill. This gao report makes it clear what needs to be done. Inconsistent and incomplete policies are putting employees, patients, caregivers and anyone else on vas property at risk. Without an honest, clear and genuine recognition of the problem from the top, a successful fail safe system with Accountability Measures built into every step along the way, it will never happen. We need a system in place now, not years from now, and the va must begin to approach this issue with a real sense of urgency. I look forward to todays testimony and a productive discussion on this critically important issue. And with that, mr. Chairman, thank you, again, and i yield back the balance of my time. Thank you. I would like to recognize chairman takano for five minutes for any opening comments he might to have. Thank you, chairman. I want to note the importance of this hearing. The subcommittee and the womens Veterans Task force have focused much needed attention on the ongoing and widespread problem of Sexual Harassment experienced at va facilities. I recognize that the department has made progress. However, i must echo what chairman pappas and others have stated, we need to see va leadership take many more steps and in a timely manner toward effective policies and procedures. As shown by the gao in its report on va Sexual Harassment released last week, ineffective policies not only mean that fewer employees have the protection they need, but the very mission of va is hindered. Gao in its report released last week pointed out many failings by va in their efforts to address Sexual Harassment, including that not all allegations by employees are being reported through any sort of centralized system. In other words, theres a severe undercounting of allegations that are reported. Let alone that result and inaction by the department. This is not the first time gao has raised similar concerns. There was a 1993 gao report titled, quote, inquiry into Sexual Harassment issues at selected va medical centers, end quote. Let me say that again. A 1993 gao report. That gao report specifically pointed out the importance of full reporting of allegations through a central system as well as mandatory Sexual Harassment training and other steps similar to what we are hearing about today. Va employees simply cannot wait for years or even too many months before the gao recommendations are implemented and other steps are taken. I also note that the department is not working effectively with organized labor in order to address Sexual Harassment. Labor unions can be an asset in working with and communicating with employees. They are also a valuable form of protection and support. I urge va to engage with organized labor on this issue. I look forward, secretary powers, to your testimony and appreciate your participation in this in these proceedings today. I look forward to hearing from todays witnesses and i yield back the balance of my time. Thank you, chairman takano. I will introduce the witnesses. We have ms. Pamela powers, acting deputy secretary at the department of Veterans Affairs and shes accompanied by mr. Dan sidery and ms. Layla jackson. Ms. Powers will provide testimony for all of the va witnesses. I remind you to pause before you begin speaking to that the recording will capture all of your words and remember to do so when answering members questions as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. As the general said, this is my first testimony in front of this committee but its also my first testimony in front of any committee. I would ask you to go easy on me, but i know that probably wont be the case. But chairman, Ranking Member bergman and members of this subcommittee and the task force, thank you for inviting me to discuss the critically important topic of making sure va provides a safe and welcome environment for our patients, their families, and our staff. I know you all are familiar with the gao report about Sexual Harassment in the government which said that incidents happened more frequently at va than any other federal agency. But today i want to walk you through the steps that the va has taken since that gao data was collected in 2016 at the end of the last administration and describe to you how va is not the same va as it was four years ago. Ensuring va is an ethical and Accountable Organization that has a welcoming and safe environment is something that secretary wilke takes seriously. He sent the message from the top that va will not tolerate any behavior that creates an intimidating, offensive or hostile environment and hes reaffirmed that directive and he sets an ethical tone from the top. This is incredibly important to me as well, as a 30year veterans da veteran, this is personal. And i use va health care, so its personal. Its of utmost importance to me that we have an organization that im proud to share with my brothers and sisters in arms. We have ongoing, targeted Customer Service efforts and Employee Engagement efforts, enhancements to training, policies and programs and significant outreach to our Women Veterans. Just a few weeks ago, i hosted a virtual womens summit with more than 1,600 Women Veterans and that was followed up by two other Virtual Events that reached almost 200,000 women and it allowed us to answer over 1,000 questions. We also have a dedicated womens call center that has made 1. 7 million outreach calls since inception. We launched a National Campaign to prevent all harassment in the va and it includes increased training for our medical and support staff to include our Police Officers and to ensure theyre aware of inappropriate behavior and have the tools to stop it, report it and prevent. It includes the distribution of information for veterans and visitors on how to treat everyone with respect in our facilities. Last year, we launched the harassment and assault policy and reporting task for to improve or system of reporting and tracking of of Sexual Harassment and assault but to improve the services we provide to targets of this mistreatment. Its about taking action to make sure they dont happen again. And because we can always improve and because we are a learning organization, we welcome the gao report. We concurred with all of its recommendations and are already in the process of updating our policies in this area, referring training requirements and finalizing Harassment Prevention Programs. And based on the results weve seen in the va over the last couple of years, were optimistic that our efforts are making a difference. We treat more than 550,000 women which is more than three decades three times the number we cared for two decades ago. Women increasingly trust the va and Second Quarter of this year, we saw women trust in va jump 10 Percentage Points from last year to a record high. And theres strong evidence that the culture is changing for our women employee, retention and morale has helped the va boost its rating from 17th out of 18 best places to work to sixth in a few short years. Thats a significant jump. We know women employees are a big part of this changing culture because theyre not a minority in va. 60 of our 400,000 employees are women and women are also managing key aspects of this large organization. But while were seeing progress, culture change is not something an organization pursues for just a few weeks or just a few short years, its a constant undertaking and the va is committed to change for the long haul so every woman who wears this nations uniform knows this is her va. Thank you and im happy to answer your questions and discuss this very important topic. Thank you very much. Ill recognize myself for five minutes for question. Thanks very much for your testimony here today and i can gather from your comments that its fair to say theres more work ahead to address the widespread problem of Sexual Harassment at va facilities, would you agree . I would say its an ongoing process, but weve certainly addressed it a lot over these last couple of years. I appreciate that. And the timelines that are outlined in the departments response to gao recommendations i believe extend far too out into the future. Establishing plans of action and handbooks wont be completed until some point next year. Changes involving the managers, reporting Sexual Harassment will not see completion until 2024. I joined my colleagues asking that the department expedite implementation of the representations and i want to know what can be done to implement these improvements more quickly . Thank you for that question, mr. Chairman. Va were working to implement the gaos recommendations and on the realignment of the eeo Program Managers to our assistant secretary for hrna, we started that process in 2017. Our National Cemetery administration is complete. Theyve already realigned our office of i. T. And realigned our Veterans Benefits agency. Our administration is about halfway through. Were working with them. But the large part of our organization, as you may know is our Veterans Health administration and we have to realign 134 eeo Program Managers to hrna and that comes with its resource requirements. That comes out of our gen ed budget. We just got another 59 million cut in our gen ed and i think what a lot of people dont realize is that that gen ed budget isnt overhead, headquarters i guess is what im trying to say, its specific enterprise programs that we need that funding for. We believe that thats a priority. We do want to move that over. But the reason why it will take until 2024 is because first we need the resource to do that and we need to hire all 134 of those folks or bring them over for vha which takes time. Ish appreciate that. Im glad you mentioned that realignment has happened in other areas of va and were still focused on vha and i still think we can do better than 2024. You mentioned the resource issue. I think this committee would be happy to work with you to advocate for those additional resources. But you need to be clear with us what you need and how we can Work Together to cut down that time frame because people are waiting and people are experiencing harassment today and i know you take that seriously and i think four years is too long. Yes, mr. Chairman, i do take it seriously and i would say that were still addressing it with the current alignment. I think its more it makes more sense to realign it under our rhna. The alignment of the eeo director, and im going to turn this over in a second, but the reason why we believe that gao and eeo have this wrong is, in their recommendation they say that the Agency Responsible for executing and advising on personnel processes and Personnel Matters should not be the eeo director because it creates a conflict of interest and we completely agree with that which is why it makes sense before we go there. Just for quest, you provide us with specifics about budgetary or other needs to cut down on that 2024 time frame. I hope week Work Together on that and i filed an amendment to military construction Veterans Affairs appropriations to specifically address realignment for vha. We need to hear from you about how we can refine this and partner on the efforts that need to be undertaken. So i appreciate that. My time is running out. And i just wondered if we could get to that issue of eeo hr leadership. I think you were wanting to turn it over, but this is the one away where we didnt receive concurrence and i would like an explanation from you as to why not. Its Department Heads t way we have administrations, the different headquarters and missions. In the va as we go forward, we have 10 Million People covered under the va eeo Program Including our employees, our veterans, our affiliates, our trainees, and so im open to a different structure than what we currently have. As the deputy suggested, we dont really know what that looks like to not create additional conflict under the structure that we have today. I look forward to working with this committee. 66 of agencies comply with that directive. 34 of us believe we have it right in a different structure. I would be happy to have that dialogue as we go forward. Im sure this will be a point of conversation. With that, ill turn it over to Ranking Member bergman for any questions he may have. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to put a capstone comment to make sure i understand the chairmans last question and your response. In organizational terms, what i heard you say is hr is more policyoriented, rather than operational. Yes, sir. And i can understand if that is in fact the case. So i guess not to be answered now, but to be contemplated and thought for future conversation, a hr long term in the va, should it stay policy as it relates to other agencies across the spectrum of federal government because if youre trying to have a meeting and hr folks show up and one agency sends its policy folks, then another agency sends its operational folks, we automatically have a disconnect. Im appreciate of your education for me on this case of where we differ. And theres a difference between policymaking staffs and all of that and the operational size of running the business. Lets talk about the eeo process. As the departments eeo director, i would like to ask you about the eeo process. According to the data posted on vas website, the average days pending for an employees eeo complaint in which a hearing was requested is over 1,100 days. I imagine that an employee could lose faith in the process, let alone track of whats going on over that course of time, waiting three years for resolution of a Sexual Harassment complaint. Would you please help me understand why the eeo process takes so long. What steps are within the vas control, what steps are outside the vas control, and what is the va doing to its one thing to improve timeliness. But you cannot quality just because you did it faster. So please elaborate. Thank you for the question, general bergman. Im very frustrated with the time that it takes. Ill try to walk you through as quickly as i can which part we have responsibility for and which part we turn over to other agencies. First of all, we would very much like to prevent it from happening in the first place. When that doesnt happen within 45 days under the current policy guidance, the individual reports that to our eeo office. We then have 30 days to meet with the individual in an attempt to resolve that. The fact is, we have over 50 of the case that is come to us, we call those informal, that are actually resolved. The other 50 have the opportunity to go to dispute resolution. We very much like to have that resolution done that gives us another 90 days. The part that i control the 90 days of the resolution, up to 90 days, and the 30 days to investigate if you will. At that point, if the individual doesnt accept the resolution, we give them notice that they have the authority to go to the eeoc or other avenues for complaint. Once it goes to the eeoc for hearings, i lose all of that. And so our goal is to have everything resolved informally. And the more timely individuals come to us and the more dispute resolution we can do, the better we are at that. Once its turned over to the eeoc, i will defer to them i just i know my time is running short here. What i heard you say was 50 of the cases are resolved. Yes, sir. Okay. So then the reminder 50 , you get your work done within 90 days. That is correct, sir. Of that remaining 50 , what percentage of that goes past the 90 days and goes into the you know, the tunnel to nowhere . So it depends on the individual and the individual gets to select what their next source of action is either to go to the eeoc or to another office to complain with that. But frankly if the claim is accept accepted and not all of them are accepted, it fits their category of timeliness, its one of the protected categories, those sorts of things, it will go to the eeoc and we will track it through its finish, but we dont see it from that point until they make a final decision. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Ill recognize chairwoman brownlee for five minutes. And i think i wanted to ask a couple questions of the secretary. Again, youve done a great job so far. Hang in there. Not so bad. But during a visit to philadelphia, my staff went to a site visit in philadelphia and found a lot of the antiharassment posters had been taken down from public spaces and they might be creating a hostile environment for Women Veterans and women im sorry. That these posters have been taken down and it was actually the male veterans who were, who were taking them down because they feared they were that they were being blamed for, you know, Sexual Harassment and that sort of insinuation and so my question is, really, are you seeing this and certainly it happened in philadelphia and i guess the question is, you know, how is va addressing a pushback like that from veteran men who take antiharassment messages sort of as personal criticism . Thats unfortunate, maam. Im not aware of that. But ill look into that after this hearing. We do take that very seriously. While i do not believe we have a systemic issue of harassment in va, i do know that it happens. Some male veterans do not treat our female veterans well. But i would say that we have an older generation of veterans. Primarily older generation that we serve in our va hospitals. They served at a time when there werent a lot of women in uniform. Im not making excuses for them. Certainly not. What im saying is i cant change the mind of that 75yearold, but i can certainly and we in va can certainly address behavior which is why we stood up that task force and its why we had this top harassment now campaign and actually ms. Jackson, would you like you know, i i only have a little bit of time. And i hear what youre saying, but i think that, you know, im only citing one experience in philadelphia. But my sense is theres more of this peppered throughout the va and i just i think and i bring it up because i think it is as you pursue more training, that sort of thing, i think this needs to be incorporated. It is certainly for all employees, but think there has to be a focus on this behavior and because even if somebody is 75 years old, if they can see that theyre actually acting that way, they want to fix it. But they dont see that theyre actually acting that way. And so i think through different simulations and forth in training, we can correct some behaviors. The other question that i really wanted to get to is the issue of, okay, so were all accepting the prevalence of an employee harassment at the va. Youre testifying that youre already undertaking a lot of steps towards addressing this. I just have to ask why over in the last three years that were only 15 cases of employee harassment have resulted in corrective action. And i just you know, i just need to understand when we know that 1 in 4 women experience Sexual Harassment that only over this period of time, only 15 cases have been corrected. So to me that just underscores maybe some of the pitfalls within the past processes, you know, of addressing this issue. Theres got to be more than 15 cases. It just you know, when you look at all of the statistics, there is no way that it can just be 15. So if you could just address that. Madam chair, i agree that we definitely need to address it. Its one of the reasons why we stood up a Task Force Last year to look at how we report and encourage those to come forward. We know that its underreported. We know that not everyone that experiences harassment comes forward. But we want our veterans and we want our staff to come forward. His team on the eeo side have led a multidepartment effort as well with table top exercises and are looking into the reporting structures and our training as well and whether or not we have the right training. The gao report didnt say that we dont have training. It said that we have a lot of old training and its not consistent. And thats really where were focusing on our efforts. We hired a chief learning officer and dan sitterly can talk a little bit more about that. But hes going to look at learning across the entire department and whether or not we have it right and we want to be focused because we know our employees time is valuable and we want to have the right training. Back to your earlier comment, i want to talk a little bit about the bystander training that we stood up, that we started about or the contract kicked off in july. That bystander training is going to be for our veterans and for our staff to identify what harassment looks like and to prevent it and stop it and really take care of it. So weve got a lot of efforts under way. We need to make sure theyre focused. Thank you very much and i apologize for exceeding my time limit. But i yield back. Thank you, chairwoman brownlee. Next i would like to recognize ms. Radewagen for five minutes. Thank you to the chair and the Ranking Member for holding this hearing today in conjunction with the womens Veterans Task force. Thank you to the witnesses for their testimony. No one should ever be made to feel uncomfortable due to their sex or gender, period. I acknowledge that this can be a delicate topic with personal ramifications. Out of respect for those who have been the victims of Sexual Harassment or assault, i hope we can all approach this in a levelheaded and appropriate manner. That said, there can be zero tolerance for certain types of behaviors. Least of all in facilities meant to serve and heal our nations heroes. Colonel powers, in 2012 congress directed va to implement a policy on the reporting and tracking of Sexual Assault and other Safety Incidents that occur at va medical centers. Here we are eight years later still wrestling with the Data Collection issue. What is va doing to capture information about Sexual Harassment including Sexual Assault on va property . Thank you for that question. I would agree that we were still wrestling with it. It was about a year and a half ago where i was looking at the congressional report that had come forward and i didnt understand the numbers and the numbers didnt make sense and i understood that half of them were not even assaults by veterans that had the mental capacity which is why we stood up this task force to really look into that and its also why ms. Jackson, if you could talk about the Sexual Assault dashboard that we have now in place. We just stood up a we Just Launched the Sexual Assault Incident Reporting dashboard because we were concerned about our cmr report from last year. We had 228 allegations of Sexual Assault out of the 1. 7 million veteran appointments, inpatient and outpatient visits and we were concerned and we wanted to understand it. We established a dashboard that gives us clarity, was it veteran on veteran, employee on veteran. Were there charges filed . Was it because the suspect was incapacitate instead and we track it all the way through victim recovery. We want to know what are we doing to help the victim . We are really getting at trying to understand it and we want to reduce our numbers. Im a marine veteran. I care about this also very passionately. I dont know if i have enough time for another question. I cant see go right ahead. My question here is for mr. Sitterly. Mr. Sitterly, the gao found that the policies did not always reflect the current va policy on Sexual Harassment. To address that, gao recommended that the office of resolution management should review all existing va and Administration Policies to make sure that theyre current, complete and aligned with va Sexual Harassment policy. Is the process still dissimilar at each facility, the different processes or policies are required . It seems other than the name of a point of contact, the policy and procedure should be the same across va. Yes, maam. Thank you for the question. First of all, let me be perfectly clear, theres one single document that is the overarchi overarching policy in the va. And thats important because every other policy document in the va comes from that. Its also important because its the policy document from which all of our training is established. And i think what i would like everybody to know that 95plus percent of all of our employees today have taken that training and reviewed this document which talks about how to report, what to report, what the expectations are, et cetera. That said, i do think that there have been a lot of efforts across the va in a lot of different areas and that we need to have a Central Location and thats what the deputy has asked us to do is to stand up this task force. In the past, we have had employee focus was in my office. Our patients were in Patient Advocacy offices, our police were reporting assault incidents. We have a Workplace Violence prevention insider threat. There are a lot of places across the va. And so the task force that the deputy is leading and has asked us to look at will bring all of those together so well have a Central Place to not only record but more importantly to investigate and to take action and perhaps even most importantly to ensure that our victims are given the dhar care is appropriate for that situation. Thank you for that question. Thank you, chairman. I yield back the balance of my time. Thank you very much. And ill recognize chairman takano for five minutes. Thank you, chairman. Deputy secretary powers as i said in my opening statement, welcome. I hope this is not going to be too jarring for you, this first experience. Its good to see you here. Your testimony made clear that your sentiment to make addressing Sexual Harassment at the va a priority and i appreciate your intention and that of your Department Colleagues who have joined you for moving va forward. However, va employees need strong timely action if were going to have an agency where everyone is safe from Sexual Harassment. I joined with eight of my Congressional Colleagues in writing to the secretary urging that va implement the recommendations made by gao in its report on Sexual Harassment. Several of those who signed the letter are here today including chairman pappas. The other signatures include dr. Row as well as the chair and Ranking Member of the senate Veterans Affairs committee and senator ernst. Thats quite a list. We all agreed on the importance of the issue and the validity of the recommendations and the need for va to expedite the timetable for implementation. Ms. Powers, i heard your response to chairman pappas when he asked you about your timetable. At the risk of sounding competitive, i have to ask, why cant we move more quickly . For example, we all agreed that improved training can and should be required for employees but the department does not plan on making the new training module until the end of next year. Please explain, why the delay . Yes, chairman. Thank you for that question. Training is important. Every hour that we spend takes away from patient care that we could be providing patients. So we have to make sure, you know, as an organization that we have the right training at the right time and thats why we hired a chief learning officer. Mr. Sitterly, can you talk about the effort that we have under way to make sure that we have focused trains in this area . Excuse me, im not perfectly need the training. And you alluded to the possibility to the excuse, which is youre going to take people away from patient care and that you need the right training materials. But im sorry, i read you a statement from 1993 sgao report. It took since 1993 so come up with training materials. Im growing impatient with this. If i can just comment on one point on that. Its not a problem of not having training. We have training. We have too much training. We dont have consistent training. We have an over arching training policy, but then every administration has developed its own. Some of its outdated, some of its not needed. Unless im missing something, mr. Sirtly, tterly, we need to sure this is focussed. Everybodys working hard to make sure we get this right. There has been obligation to fund the account so we can do that. We are concerned, as the deputy said, not that we dont have enough training, we have too much training. Weve allowed everybody to put the training out mr. Sitterly, are you telling me that you are asking congress to fund specifically the general account that you just mentioned with maybe a proviso saying that this money is specifically got to be spent on this training . Is that is that you dont youve been lacking that funding to be able to do this . Sir, the 59 million cut that the deputy mentioned earlier affects my ability to do police force modernization. It affects my ability to do section 505 of the mission act so we can put a manpowered system in place. Also it affects our ability to do labor negotiations. So, the money that comes in to the General Administration account, all is spent in manpower, if you will, with the exception of leases and copier pain and those sorts of things. We have allowed this to be distributed out across. We have in our Talent Management system, which is our system for primary training for the va, we have 285 courses that address Workplace Violence. We have 130 courses that address disruptive disruptive behaviors. The deputy has charged us with ensuring that we get our arms around what is the right training for the right people at the right time so that we have a deliberate, not only how tos, but what ifs on all of this training. And to the point, one you are hov mandatory training across 400,000 employees is 400,000 hours that they dont get to contact our veterans. So we want to make sure that we dont add to it. We want to make sure that frankly we have less but that its just in time, its micro learning. So were working very hard to do that along with the Bystander Intervention training, National Provider training and such. Im over my time, but i just want to sthaug thuggest that th timetable is too far out for members of congress. We dont understand why it has to be so far out. If you need more money, i think you need to come back and tell us which is what we need. In order to get the Sexual Harassment and be held accountable for it. This is a high private for both sides of the aisle. And i yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I look forward to working with you. Id now like to recognize mr. Bost for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You highlighted the increased confidence and the number of veterans using the va services, which is wonderful. However, with that increase in the number of veterans coming into the va for medical care, what exactly is the va doing to have a concrete definitive poll semiplace policy in place to reduce the patient on patient Sexual Harassment . Thank you for that question. We have a lot of efforts under way. The reason why im very optimistic but im not satisfied is we on the optimistic side, our trust scores among our veterans have increased dramatically over the last couple years. As i mentioned in my opening statement, theyve gone up among our womens veterans 10 in the last year. We survey a lot of our veterans. We have a Large Population after every appointment. Im one of them, as i mentioned earlier. I get my health dmcare in va ani received a survey right afterwards. I would say that we had 17. 8 response rate, which is industry standards about 10 . And so were pretty confident in our numbers that our Veterans Trust the health care that they are getting and that its in a safe and welcoming environment. 87 of our women trust the health care what theyre getting. But were not stopping there. Its not we are continually transforming this department to meet the needs of all of our veterans. Okay. I think you kind of well, let me go on and when i tell you that im going to go down the same path as the chairman and also the whole Committee Chairman and i think, you know, we dont want to beat a dead horse, but this ones going to get beat, okay . And heres why. I really need understand this. Because we all have to answer to our constituents. And our constituents are veterans and all of those that have va facilities. And when you get recommendations and you agree with the recommendations and then you say its going to take to 2024 to put in the changes necessary, the constituents that i deal with that i have to talk to, i think they think that there is there is rocket time, there is standard time, there is turtle time, and then theres bureaucracy time. And the problem with bureaucracy time is no one can understand why it is that the federal government always has to take too long to implement so many things that are vitally important. And this is vitally important. And i were asking these questions because we, even as members of congress, which doesnt move quick, are having trouble trying to figure out white va is goiwhy the va is going to take so long to implement changes on such a vital issue. I dont know how to get the issues that we need to go back to our constituents and say, yes, we are dealing with this. 2024, were dealing with it. Mr. Bost, i would say that theres only one aspect of the gao recommendations that are going to take till 2024, and that is what we talked about earlier, realigning those veteran Health Administration employees under dan sitterly and hrna. We cant do that without the budget to do so and we cant do that with the current budget and weve made that request in our budget proposal. The rest of the recommendations were already moving out on and they wont take that long. The training we just talked about. But i would like to go back to the problem at hand is Sexual Assault and Sexual Harassment. And we want to make sure that this organization has a zero tolerance policy. We have a very targeted effort on not only Employee Engagement, but also veteran experience. On the Employee Engagement side, we have an entire effort, we do an all Employee Survey every year. And it asks a lot of questions of our employees. And it shows what the culture is. And every single Small Organization within va. And we hold our leaders accountable from those scores. Theyre on all of our sess, our Senior Leaders reports every year. We have an entire Office National center for Organizational Development that is there to help those leaders in underperforming organizations build up that culture and be better, to give them the tools and resources. So we track this very closely. Every time i go to a facility around our nation, thats one of the things i look for. I look at the culture. I look at the Womens Health center and making sure. I look at the posters on the walls to make sure that they have those up there. On the veterans experience side, the reason why we see such progress and the reason why im very optimistic that were moving in the right direction is our scores have jumped up a lot because we have such a targeted veteran experience office, we have an entire office, dr. Linda davis and her team are doing fantastic things to make sure we provide worldclass Customer Service. So we know right away where our issues are. And thats another thing we track very closely. So i would say that its a culture change. Its multifaceted. A lot of efforts under way, but i am very optimistic. My times expired, i yield back. Thank you very much. Next up i have ms. Rice for five minutes and i would just remind ms. Rice to pause two or three seconds before you begin your questioning and ill now recognize you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary wilkie calling for vas exclusionary motto to be updated. I was extremely disappointed by your letter which not only dismissed our request, but questioned the notion that the motto could at all be interpreted as discriminatory. I have met with Women Veterans who told me that the current motto makes them feel invisible at va and it exemplifies a culture and environment that does not equally recognize or respect their service. These women were made to feel like their service and experiences didnt matter to you and to the va. This creates a lack of trust in a system that is supposed to be there to support these women. I believe this issue is important and relevant to raise at todays hearing on Sexual Harassment in the department, because it speaks to a cultural problem that continues to exist within the va. The preference of Sexual Harassment within va facilities is a significant barrier to care for Women Veterans. Women va employees also experience high levels of sexual and gender harassment, and many employees do not report harassment because of fear of retaliation or reprisal. Cultural change starts at the top. And there is still work to be done to show veterans and va employees that the agency and its leadership are committed to taking harassment seriously. Ms. Powers, i want to give you a chance to update the remarks you made in your letter. Are you prepared today to recognize that the current va motto is exclusionary of women and lgbtq veterans . Thank you for that question. I think this is a very important issue. I believe our motto is based upon a direct quote from lincolns second inaugural address some 150 years ago. Weve heard from women on both sides of this issue. Personally, i see the quote for what it is, it was a speech perhaps one of the greatest speeches of our entire history from a president who sought to heal a divided nation. And if you look at the entire speech, he talked about equity for all and not just some. Which is at the heart of this matter. And i believe that what matters more than the words on our building from a president , one of the best president s weve ever had, what matters more is what happens when our veterans walk through our doors. And when our wait, let me stop you there. That is exactly what the problem is. Or whether or not that is exact excuse me, ms. Powers. Welcome and feel safe and that is where were focusing our efforts. Ms. Powers, that is the problem when you walk in and see that motto and you are a woman, you immediately feel like you dont belong there. I recently spoke to a number of Women Veterans who explained what its like to walk into a va hospital and see those words and then immediately before they even make it to the elevator to go up to the womens area of the hospital they are subject to constant harassment. So the point is that even though when Abraham Lincoln spoke toes words, women were serving the military. They might not have been on the battlefield, but they were serving in other capacities. So why lincoln chose that word is, you know, obviously thats those are the words that he spoke. But over the course of history, we have changed mottoes and ideas and policies as time changes, women are serving more, more than 2 million women have worn the uniform of this great kuch country of ours, and it seems ridiculous that the only reason not to change it that i have heard is that these are the words of Abraham Lincoln who, as you said, was one of our greatest president s. So, you can imagine how upsetting it was to hear mr. Wilkie speak about respond to a specific question i asked about his support for the change in the motto. And he said, you know, its going to cost too much money. Which is ridiculous. It has not been by cpo. But to say that is ridiculous, especially since less than six months later he talked about putting up a bronze plaque at with the va motto on it at all 170 va cemeteries around the country, which would come, to me, at a hugely significant cost. So it belies his claim that, you know, changing the motto has anything to do with finances. And let me just say that, you know, its not that difficult to connect the fact that women are not included and recognized in the vas motto with the fact that they get subpar beyond subpar treatment from their male colleagues. If you ever expect to do anything substantive and address the chronic epidemic of Sexual Harassment against women and men in the military, you have to start by not just actions that you take, but the words that represent the very institution that they are charged with defending. So i really hope that you will reconsider your position and stop making reference to words that were spoken many years ago because the reality of the military in 2020 is very different. And it has to change with the times if we are ever going to give women the kind of equality they deserve for putting their lives on the line just like their male colleagues. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, ms. Rice. With that, id like to recognize ms. Underwood for five minutes and just would remind you to pause a couple seconds before you begin your questioning. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you to our panel of witnesses. The circumstances surrounding the killing of specialist vanessa are just of the most recent reminder that Sexual Harassment and assault are far too common within our armed forces. We know these experiences are both personally devastating for women in uniform and a critical threat to our force and ready innocence National Security. Service members who come home and seek care at the va should not experience more of the same. And its our job as members of this committee to make sure that that doesnt happen. In february, 2019, va released the study that found at least one in four Women Veterans experienced sexual or genderbased harassment at va facilities. Ms. Powers, you share my concern that a pervasive culture of Sexual Harassment within va impact military readiness for those Women Veterans who utilize vha care but still serve in a reserve or guard capacity . Yes, i would say that i disagree with the premise that we have pervasive Sexual Harassment at va. The data doesnt show that. There are instances in our va hospitals that we are seeking to address most definitely. But i do not agree that its pervasive. I do believe that we need to have a culture that is safe and welcoming. That is imperative. No women no veteran should come into our facility and not feel safe or welcome. That is my goal and that is what we are focused on creating that culture to make sure that that happens. Well, i dont know how we could characterize one in four women experiencing the kind of harassment and not call it pervasive. But my question is really about the impact on readiness for Women Veterans who serve in the guard or in a reserve capacity and are you all doing anything to address that concern . I guess im misunderstanding your question. We dont see reserves and guard in our va hospitals. Theyre not eligible for va health care. Okay. Moving on. A gao report from july 2020 found that va does not require reporting of all Sexual Harassment complaints, specifically the report identified that not all managers who receive complaints may be required to report them to va centrally. Policies and limitation of va regulations regarding shame the can also differ by individual facility. Is how va work toeng sure that regulations and procedures involving Sexual Harassment are uniform across your facilities . Mr. Sitterly, would you like to address that . Yes, thank you. I think its important to note that the gao study focused on the employee aspect of it in regards to Sexual Harassment as a condition of employment and discrimination. And then we have the veteran piece that were looking at as well. So the piece that the task force asked us to look at includes harassment and assault reporting across the entire enterprise. Which is why as we shift to bring this under ormr thats a huge understand taking to address both the clinical, the patient care, the employee piece, the dispute resolution, its handled differently depending on the constituency. And so were working that policy together with our administrations and thats where our harassment prevention policy will come in that will have the interim guidance out next month on. Thank you for the question. Additionally, that gao report found that va has incomplete and outdated policies, information, and training related to Sexual Harassment. Specifically va employee training lacks any indepth information necessary for effectively identifying and addressing Sexual Harassment. Ms. Powers, what is va doing to address these glaring holes in the training . Thank you for that question. I believe weve already answered that, but ill actually mr. Sitterly, can you talk a little bit about the targeted training that were going to be providing . Yes, thank you. Once again, the overall mandatory training for everybody has been complied by over 90 , 95 of our employees. Its required within 90 days of onboarding. Given the vast surge weve had with employees with the covid19 thanks to the efforts of this congress, that doesnt surprise me that were 5 of those people behind. So, that is our one training thats mandatory for everybody. In addition, we have over 400 courses that address Workplace Violence to include harassment, assault, disruptive behaviors. And so our effort is to bring all of those courses together now that we have a chief learning officer on board in the va. And through the Talent Development council that shes responsible for where we have representatives from the three administrations, the office of informations technology, and the board of Veterans Affairs to ensure that we have captured the training with the policy and to deliver it to the right people at the right place at the right time in the right lesson objectives to get us where we need to be. Thank you for the question. Okay. Well, you know, it sounds like theres a variety of different work streams in process. And perhaps the next time you come and testify we can just understand the comprehensive plan. How are we going to get there and how we are going to get there timely . It just seems a little bit fragmented at this point. Were asking the va to confront this headon because the epidemic of Sexual Harassment at the va is at a critical, moral point and its a National Security failure. I appreciate the opportunity to have the conversation and i yield back. Well thank you very much. Next id like to recognize ms. Custer for five minutes and just faus paupause for a couple before you begin your questioning. Thank you very much, chairman pappas. And thank you to chairwoman brownley on the womens task force. I very much appreciate you welcoming me back to the committee for this important hearing. I have to say its a bit depressing when chairwoman brownley and chairwoman takano and i joined the committee in 2013. This was one of the very first issues that we addressed. So, change has been slow coming to the va. When the merit sisters protection board came out with the numbers two years ago the numbers were appalling and i called for action. I was pleased to work with Ranking Member bergman to help spur the gaos report into harassment of the va workforce. And now with the report if hand were in the next sntep in rectifying the problem. Im impressed with the gaos work on this problem. They found glaring problems and im glad they did not mince words with va Sexual Harassment policies and the correct course of action. Heres the bottom line. People who go into Public Service to care for our veterans deserve so much better than the st status quo. And the same could be said to our veterans who seek treatment at the va. I know from having served on this committee for six years that the va simply cannot serve our veterans effectively when staff and patients are victimized at such a pervasive rate. Whats really troubling to me is that some of these issue identified in the gao are similar to those identified when the va patients complained about harassment that they experienced at va facilities. Clearly these lessons need to be learned and taken to heart. Course corrections are needed and timing is of the essence. So ill work with my friends and colleagues in the committee, including you, mr. Chair, to see that this gets done. But the va should prioritize resolving these issues with greater speed. So deputy secretary powers, last year my colleague shelly and i led a letter to wilkie continue to corporate input from military sexual trauma survivors and survivor advocates within training for va staff who process claims concerning mst. Building on that, as the va looks to move forward on this issue, would you commit to engaging with current and former va employees who have experienced harassment and incorporate their insights and feedback into all improved or new training to address harassment in the workforce . Thank you for that question. I am committed to that. I think that we have a comprehensive military Sexual Assault program in va. All of our veterans that come to va are screened pofor military sexual trauma and ptsd and others. We have a coordinator at every va health system. And eligibility for this is very expansive. Our veterans dont have to show that theyve had mst, they dont have to be it doesnt have to be part of their disability. They can come in at any time. We dont have a wait. But do you have trauma enforced training . Excuse me, do you yo have trauma informed training was the question and would you include survivors of trauma in your processes . This is i was wondering if i could take that question. Go ahead and talk through our training. I would like to be able to talk a little bit, yes, we have traumainformed training in terms of our Sexual Harassment, Sexual Assault. I want to say also that weve been very intense i see that we have a little delay here. Weve worked very hard to include the voice of the veteran in our Sexual Harassment programs, training. Weve had focus groups, but weve more than that theyve been informing us, and i heard your question about how can we involve employees in the development of these tools . And i can assure you that at the vha level, the bystander training is very much focused on the employee level involvement. And we do talk with employees in terms of how does this affect them when theyre harassed by veterans or by employees . And part of the interactive training captures that. Because one of the most important things we know is that when we talk to veterans who do this behavior is that the one thing that impacts them is if they understand that what theyre doing isnt just a political comment or social comment, it is disrupting the care of their sister veterans. And thats been the impactful message that gets through to them. So mr. Chair, i apologize that i didnt start a stopwatch on my end and i cant find a clock on your end. Is there any time left or should i yield back . Well, youre out of time but if you have a quick one well two members of the worse force who report harassment. And if i could get that answer, then i would yield back. And thank you, again. Im proud of you in your role and im grateful to be a part of this hearing. Thanks so much. Congresswoman, could you just repeat that question . I think we missed the first part of it. Sure. Im sorry. The question is about the resources that are provided or offered to members of your workforce who report harassment. What are they offered and in particular with regard to traumainformed response. Well, we certainly have Employee Assistance programs. Dan, you want to talk more about i appreciate your comments, secretary powers, mr. Sitterly, dr. Hayes, and ms. Jackson, thanks for being with us today. Well take just a brief recess to set up our second panel. Everyone stay close and once again, appreciate your comments. Thank you, pmr. Chairman. While n well now produce the witnesses on our second panel. We have Cindy Brown Barnes from the Government Accountability office. And ms. Joy ilem, National Legislative director at disabled american veterans. We will now hearing the oth statemen Opening Statements from our panel members. I will remind you to pause two to three seconds before speaking so the microphone picks a