Lincoln,. Captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2008 its a tough question. Same thing with someone like washington. Would you have had a United States without a George Washington . Its been interesting. My many, many years in the profession, washington wasnt right at the top as hes moved up among evaluation but how he treated democracy, how he wanted to step back, sort of father the country. He owned slaves and though she shhe punished slaves and other things, the overall thing he was willing to free them. It gets complex. Theres a large framework there and you have to decide which of it youre going to accept. The whole story with jefferson needs to be told. The whole story. If youre going to celebrate jefferson you say this man did not or claimed not to believe in black equality, though he rights all men are created equal. At the same time he felt himself or he at the most was attracted, lets put it that way, if he didnt love an africanamerican young woman who was under age. Yes. And things. That story needs to be told. What i worry about with what edna is saying, i can just see a mythology growing up after this election of a lost cause if it goes away. I hope with another role model i dont like there. I think thats our nature, to sort of make more of people than they are. You know, we all have were complex. Edna and i know, we go round after round on lincoln as a good example. There are africanamericans, besides southerners, who wouldnt want to pay taxes to have a picture of lincoln there and i think thats their right, you know. Thats true. But its a different thing. To me theres no way, you cant look at the larger picture, you would not have a United States if there wasnt for lincoln and what i like about his life, he grew and changed in the direction toward greater equality for all and support for africanamericans as citizens, as opposed to some who went the other way. Wilson is a more complicated character in that way. He was much he was from the south, he was like northerners about Race Relations and things and you have the issue of his trying to bring peace to the world, though it failed, and this idea of those things about democracy. You have to look at each one and make those decisions. Hes the one who segregates the federal government. It has not been, you know, since lincoln, it had not been segregated as Woodrow Wilson does it. Its as much a reaction as part of being the Democratic Party as him, so its really complex on these kind of people. When you get into complexity i think you can have a legitimate argument. Theres some people theres no complexity about. You know, when i was talking about the civil war, i try to tell my friends when theyre flying the Founding Fathers flag in my face that i had, you know, grad fathers on both sides that fought and died for the confederacy as well, but imagine how you felt at 9 11 or if you had been around for the japanese bombing of pearl harbor. Thats what brought the north into that war. The confederacy fired on the United States. It was the same kind of reaction. Thats when i said if hadnt happened im not sure lincoln could have raised forces to have even preserved, let alone i know he couldnt have ended slavery. That evolved when people learned what slavery was like. It was like the killing of george floyd, when soldiers got to the south and saw what it was, you can document again and again they were saying, i dont care about slavery, im not fighting to end slavery, i dont care, they were racist, they got down south and black who were enslaved helped them in all kind of ways to win battles and things even when they werent soldiers and they saw what slavery was firsthand, as opposed to what people wrote about it and said about it. It was not all that bad and all this. They became arden abolitionists. It was civil rights movement. People didnt believe it was that bad in the south. It was not until newspapermen and camera men caught dogs and water hose taking the skin off of people. Not until george floyd is losing his breath second by second that people believe that this really happens. So i think part of it is just not knowing. We had a question that will be our last question that i think is really relevant to that vernon, and i want to thank everybody for the robust discussion thats occurring in the comments. A lot of really interesting points being made, a couple of resources coming up, but the final question will sort of ask for tonight is, what role has weve talked a little bit about george floyd as a catalyst for the current upswing in the discussion on this front. What role do you all think the pandemic and other aspects of the Current Situation have had in catapulting this to the forefront of american conversation again . I think what has happened is the pandemic has actually slowed things down. I think that if there were no pandemic, you would see many, many more people in the streets and the changes occurring much more rapidly. I think some people have stayed away because they are truly fearful of this pandemic, as they should be. So i think that more than galvanizing people to go out into the streets, it has slowed the momentum a little bit. I know were seeing things escalate, but i think you would see much more of that if we did not have the concern with covid19. If i may go back, i would just like to respond to the question about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. The words that jefferson wrote are beautiful, but the words did not apply to the people who were enslaved apparently and apparently did not apply to the women either ors to the native americans who werent even considered a part of this emerging new nation anyway. In terms of by the way, someone asked how old was Sally Hemmings when he took her as his mistress, vernon, i believe she was 15 years old . Is that correct . I was going to say 14, but youre probably right. But it was about that, yes. She was a child. Okay. Thats right. And in terms i mean the words you would say is, you know yeah. In terms of George Washington, yes, washington left instructions for enslaved population to be freed when martha died, but he could have played such an Important Role earlier than that. He didnt have to come right out and say this is wrong, we need to do something about it, he could haves used his moral authority, if he had that, during the time that he was president to try to move the country closer to that kind of equality that Thomas Jefferson talked about. Instead what he did was he hunted down people who ran away from his farms. He never stopped hunting for that poor woman. When her cue less left, the cook, he tried to bring him back to the plantation, so if he was truly someone who believed in the rights of all people, the basic humanity, he would not have done that. He would have just let them go. In terms of Woodrow Wilson, i dont know what to say about Woodrow Wilson. I mean he is saying some really vicious things at a time when we needed moral leadership and he did not present it. He did try to do so many other things for the world, but he needed to have stopped in his open country and tried to make changes. Im hoping that as we go forward, we will have political leaders who are willing to step forward and do that. And i wanted to add, jefferson did no free the enslaved people. I mean that i think is an important point. That was just one of the things that was amazing when you look at this. I do think he thought slavery was the wolf by the ears because he wrestled by it and they made those choices. Yeah. Thank you. You say with the pandemic, it also underscores if you look at the data, how historically africanamericans and other minorities have less Good Health Care and are more vulnerable and its all related and we forget sometimes and its a complex story but we have to understand it. I have hope that people are beginning to understand it in a way they never have before. I think thats a good hopeful note to end on, too. Made and vernon, thank you so much for takings the time and thank you all for joining us and im sorry we couldnt get to the comment section. It started exploding toward the end and it was wonderful conversation happening there too. Thank you all for joining us this earning. I hope you learned a lot tonight and there are a lot of resources being shared and looking forward to having the next conversation with all of you and i hope you can take this forward and feel hopeful about positive change in our country at this time and i want to wish you all good health and good hope for the future. Thank you all. Thank you for all you folks do at the cottage. Thank you. You do a good job. What a great job youre doing and i think its making a difference and having dialogs like this, i wish i had a chance to talk to everyone there. Again, i have my own strong views, but i try to be respectful and we have to be respectful of other peoples heartfelt views. Absolutely. And i agree. Its also really important i think for hisser toance and public historians and educators to find ways to Work Together to make sure that that more complete story and dialog is happening at all levels. Thats an important partnership. So is thank you. Thanks, everyone. The public will get several chances to pay tribute to Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg. People are invited to a viewing at the Supreme Court today from 11 00 a. M. To 10 00 p. M. Eastern and again thursday from 9 00 a. M. To 10 00 p. M. Eastern. Friday, Justice Ginsburg becomes the first woman to lie in state at the u. S. Capitol. However, viewing is by invitation only. Week nights this month were featuring American History tv program of whats available every weekend on cspan 3. A look atom mass jefferson, bill barker, the interpreter in charlottesville, virginia. He discusses the lexington and concurred battles and the decision by the 13 colonies to break. Followed by jeffersons writing of the declaration of independence, his love of gardening and the enslaved people who maintained the grounds. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 ooesh. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan 3. President donald trump and former Vice President joe biden are set to debate, tuesday september 29th. Biden supports Cutting Police funding and he has pledged to end just last week sleepy joe proudly accepted the endorsement of the procriminal antipolice portland District Attorney who has a policy of releasing rioters, vandals, criminals and violent extremists without charge. He lied to the american people. He knowingly and willingly lied about the threat imposed to the country for months. He had the information, he knew how dangerous it was. While the deadly disease ripped through our nation he failed to do his job on purpose. It was a life and death betrayal of the american people. Watch live coverage of the first president ial debate tuesday, september 29th, on cspan at 9 00 p. M. Eastern and watch all of cspans debate coverage live or on demand at cspan. Org debates. Find all past president ial and Vice President ial debates from cspans Video Library and a link to the campaign 2020 website with videos, Campaign Information and election results. Listen live on the free cspan radio app. Cspan, your unfiltered view of politics. Next on the civil war, kevin levin and hillary green remember how we look through our memorial landscape and discuss whether to remove or contextualize monuments. The ford theater hosted the event and provided the video. Im pleased to introduce todays discussion. During the last several years how we remember and memorialize the civil war has been a topic in the United States and weve seen renewed interest in these conversations in recent weeks. At the site of Political Violence and National Memory we at ford see our work as looking not only to the actions of the past, but also to how the past informs todays circumstances. Throughout the country and the world, people have raised questions about the purposes of mem yals to leaders who supported or profited from slavery, whether in
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