Was the introduction of the iphone, which literally changed the way we use devices with those multimedia functions, and it enabled and opened up several doors of opportunity for us to have this conversation today. But on a regulatory front, which is more in line with your question, in the 1980s, the fcc launched its first cell phone spectrum band. And through a series of those decisions, you know, based on that, we are now seeing and that launched this Global Mobile revolution. And of course revolutions often happen in different phases and different stages. So, now in terms of mobile revolution or evolution, were talking about the fifth phase in some ways, but not in all communities. And thats another topic for another time. But the fifth wave of evolution when it comes to mobile phones. And what we saw around the third wave or so is these devices becoming smaller, more nimble, less expensive, and more ubiquitous. So, you had the popup of a lot of these very accessible sites to buy these phones, and they became more attached, literally, to us. And the devices, through the evolution, particularly when it comes to recording, i like to still say, but video taping content. It has become the narrative, literally the narrative for our lives today. Im stuck on what you said for a variety of reasons because i think a lot of people dont understand, right, that the federal Communications Commission had a lot to do with sort of introducing us to this mobile ecosystem. And i try to remind myself also that this iphone really was only 12, 13 years old, right, as old as my daughter. But then, too, even with the other platforms that we use, what you said is actually key. Its actually become able to be put in our purse or our pocket, which is something for people of color or historically disadvantaged groups. We never had that before, right . No. We never had that ability to carry that type of arsenal to be able to share distinctively what was happening to us. If we were lucky, we had a landline phone if we could afford the rates. And if you remember, Long Distance was incredibly expensive. We had to stand around and it was a sunday afternoon event to mac a Long Distance call. Now, if you have the right plan, any time, any place, you can reach anyone. Thats right. You know, im not gone date myself. I got my new hair do to look younger, so i wont tell people how far back i go when it came to pagers and pay phones. But i want to switch over to you, dr. Ray. When we think about sociologists, what is actually happening in this digital transformation. When we look at black lives matter, for example, they started online. There wasnt i love the story of how black lives matter got created. But really it became a movement that actually enabled itself through Technology Much like were talking about with these mobile devices. Speak to us about social activism that social media has played before we get to the nuts and bolts of why its so important at this moment. Thank you, nicole for having me, dr. Turner lee, to say that back to you. When we talk about social media, and of course as you know, for the past several years ive been part of a group of researchers that have been collecting and curating data on social media in a black lives matter movement. The big thing we have is a large digital archive of tweets starting in 2014 when Michael Brown was killed. We just continue to cue rate those data, millions and millions of tweets. Black lives matter started by three black women, primarily interacting on facebook, communicating with each other. Now its turn sbood an international movement. The way that the movement for black lives has been able to use social media is something thats unprecedented. Lets go back five or six years ago after Michael Brown was killed, so many others who werent fortunate to have a hash tag is that the level of public support at that time was significantly low. People were trying to figure out black lives matter. It kind of reminds me of whats happening now over the slogan defund the police. Im curious to see how that evolves over the next decade, but the movement for black lives matter has increased over a short period of time because people affiliated with the movement have figured out how to usual social media and social media algorithms. Part of what happened with george floyd and Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Floyd and others, the algorithm has uploaded additional videos that shows what happened to george floyd is not isolated,that instead its part of a broader pattern of systemic racism and Police Brutality. Not only that, the videos show white people behaving similar ways but getting treated significantly differently than black people. Its led to a racial awakening. Covid has contributed to that because people for a period of time and for a most part in other parts of the country have been from home or working from home giving the capacity and ability to look at things during the day, to watch news and Pay Attention in ways that their former lives would not have allowed. So, social media has played a big role in whats going on. One of the biggest findings i can share from my work is that we looked at a year in ferguson. Every tweet in ferguson from the time Michael Brown was killed until a year later, what we found was that the department of justice consent came down showing they engaged in Racial Discrimination is that what happened at that point, black lives matter started getting so organized that it started going underground a bit. And the tweets about black lives matter was not necessarily as prominent as it was before. And then a year after Michael Browns death, a mean, the spike that weve seen in people using the blacklivesmatter showed that was a strategy to highlight what was going on because Michael Brown was a catalyst in a sense that black lives matter was not popular nationally or internationally before that. The spike happened particularly in november when Darren Wilson was found well, didnt go to trial. But showed the movement of black lives was about, how quickly they were able to organize, how quickly they learned strategies to use their mobile phones, all the apps that have came up now. If you get stopped by the police, hit this button and start recording. Here are the things to do. It is layered up and become part of an ecosystem for people in how to interact with the police. I plan on in the third series having conversations around social Movement Theory and what that looks like. If you combine the tool, which back in the day used to be the telephone tree when it came to organizing. You now combine this collective hash tag that has mobilized activity and put the brakes on the fact that these are no longer hidden phenomena when it comes to police. I want to move to you. Part of it is were seeing it. We all, i think with trayvon martin, we saw the representatirepresent and the powerful imagery of hoodies and skittles. We didnt see it. It came with Michael Brown and watching this video. I think ray shad came out with body cam. The question i have for you is no one ever talks about the First Amendment, the fact that the legal rights associated with that. Before we go deeper, i want you to actually lay for us what should we be looking at in terms of the enforceability and admissibility of this type of content . Yeah, first, thanks so much, doctor lee, for bringing us together for this really timely discussion. Really appreciate it. And you know, you have the right to record. This is a right that is protected under the First Amendment. And courts have looked at the act of, you know, recording and taking photography as forms of expression that are clearly protected under the First Amendment. And there is a circuit split on this question. And it is possible that this question makes its way eventually do the supreme court. But for the time being, the courts have taken up this question of whether or not this is First Amendment protected activity, have found that it is and that there is no qualified immunity for officers in this context. I wanted to actually take a step back and just talk about the power of visual images of violence and brutality perpetrated against black people throughout time because as it turns outs, this is not just a new thing. This is something that really kind of dates back to, you know, the darkest days of jim crow, the images of lynched black people, right, the images of people assaulted on the Edmund Pettus bridge, the images of john lewis being brutalized by state troupers. Those images went viral too. They went viral on grainy black and white tv screens and ended up being images seen all over the globe that really brought a degree of shame on america, shame on the nation. And in some respects, those images and that shame that came along with those images are what laid the groundwork for congress to pass the Voting Rights act of 1965. And what really propelled lyndon b. Johnson back against a wall to sign that remarkable act into law. Fast forward to moments like rodney king, right, i mean, seeing that brutality. What were those devices called . I know, right . That wasnt even digital camera. That was a camcorder. Camcorder, yeah, with the big tapes. I mean, seeing the brutality perpetrated against rodney king is kind of what laid the groundwork for there to actually be a prosecution of those cops who perpetrated that horrendous assault. Fast forward to, you know, walter scott, right, who you know, he is 50yearold man, stopped because of a broken taillight, former military and a human being. And hes stopped by a cop who claims, right who claims as we find out falsely, that mr. Scott tried to take his taser and that he was forced to shoot. But then the courageous person who happened to record that incident comes forward and we find out that there is a different truth, that mr. Scott was running away and shot about a dozen times in the back and that the officer planted that taser ne taser next to his body. And then we fast forward to eric garner, right . And mr. Orta who recorded what happened there. And you think about all of these incidents. And the through line is that throughout history, images of the brutality have proven a powerful tool in promoting reform and sometimes promoting accountability. But most often in shaming the public to see up close the vicious violence perpetrated against black people and against black lives. Yeah, youre so right. Emmett till, if you ever go to the National Museum of africanamerican history and culture, maimmy till made the decision to keep emmetts casket open to, do what you said, in terms of the shape of history that was the spark of the modern day Civil Rights Movement. Santana was one of the people we honored for taking that video, having the courageousness as david would say, to actually record what had happened to walter scott. But since that time, theres been so many, right . I think if we sat here and said the name of every person who was in the victim of Police Brutality unarmed, other people who have done that unarmed, even shot by police, the fact we saw it, its traumatic. That trauma that were talking about with the use of modern day technology, that has a history, right . We talked about that with the Civil Rights Movement when there were broadcast stations that wanted to turn off what was happening in places like selma. Speak to us a little bit about the history in terms of media policy of actually eliminating our ability to be authentic in those images. Before you do, if you have questions, events brookings. Edu. And continue the digitaljustice. Thank you, nicole. What a lot of people expect but may not know is that especially across the south in the 40s, 50s, and early 60s, there was something real. It was a thing called a news black out. Governors got out with broadcasters. Police officials got together with newspaper publishers. And when things were happening across this nation that would, under any other circumstance, news worthy, deserve to be covered, they were not. So, it is particularly were particularly sensitive about it in South Carolina where there were a number of incidents. How many people know about the orangeburg massacre . Ive got a picture i might share later. Have you ever heard of sara may fleming . Sara may fleming was a 20yearold africanamerican female from east South Carolina. Its as rural as it sounds, who got on a bus 17 months before rosa parks. But because of the lack of covering what became two trials, you dont hear about her. But that location in columbia, South Carolina, sparked informed and enabled the success of the montgomery bus movement. And so what happens is not only we dont have dominion, which we do now with these devices, we dont have possession or the ability to get the did not have the ability to get the information out. But because of that, there were gate keepers that purposefully ensured that those movements, those acts of rebellion, those injustices were not broadcast or printed. And it gave a false impression to the world that we were okay, everything was all right, you know, that theres no problem here. We know thats not the case. And what we see now are ubiquitous tools to more level that Playing Field for visual, audible and other forms of justice. Yeah, i have to be honest. This is a really tough webinar for me to do, folks, because i theyre so close to home and the videos are so telling about what that looks like. But i would assume in the work you do working with Police Officers that that also brings a different angle to their work as well. And of course i want to be sensitive to what youre seeing by what were talking about so far, which is this availability of content that just brings the lived experiences of black people closer to home, ones that were blacked out for period of time. What is the strain on the police . I mean, you know, without taking any sides because we are nonpartisan and we try to be open, but where do the police find themselves with this plethora of content that is so telling about their behaviors . Yeah, i appreciate that question. Even to your point about having to give a caveat about which side were on, its unfortunate we live in an era where its perceived that police and people are on different sides when supposedly theyre supposed to protect and serve. Nicole, as you know, i come from a Law Enforcement family, military family, and now i study and work with police which isnt even the reason why i study Law Enforcement. It directly stemmed out of the research i was doing on health. It speaks to your question about what impact it has on police. Ill try to break this down quickly. I think the first big thing is that it has a huge toll on their Mental Health and their emotional well being. Now, Law Enforcement is an extremely difficult profession. I would argue probably the most difficult that we have in our country. With that being said, they already dont get the proper resources they need when it comes to psychological services. So, theres a recent study highlighting that 80 of officers report chronic stress. So, thats depression, anxiety. They get angered easily. They have familiar yall problems, 80 . 1 out of 6 report substance abuse, 1 out of 6 report suicidal help, but 90 never seek help. You couple that with the destruction of a hero complex. Part of what happens when kids grow up in the united states, we are socialized that the police are there to protect us. They are the good people, right . We say good guys, which kind of depending where you are in the country directly signals gender on top of that, even for people who just use guys to mean everyone. But the point of that is as people get older,that image starts to erode. And for people trying to psychologically process that, it has a huge impact on what theyre doing. This is the kicker though, even though it impacts their emotional and Mental Health and their emotional and Mental Health is already problematic to begin with, it doesnt necessarily mean it impacts their outcomes. Theres a theory about the ferguson effect that came about from ferguson, missouri, that more or less saying because of the continuous stress and strain of law enforce skpmt the attention on them that its going to impact how they do their job. Theres no Empirical Research to support that whatsoever. If anything, its the exact opposite. Lets take this moment. Have Police Killings decreased during 2020 . Its actually increased. If the ferguson effect was correct, what happened to george floyd, what happened to jacob blake wouldnt have happened. There are other incidents we can highlight. Part of what happens is people get pushed back into a corner and react to that. One of the biggest things i could tell people and i conducted with thousands of Police Officers, my team at the lab applied social Science Research have done ride alongs with so many different ride alongs. Weve interviewed hundreds of Police Officers. Theres one main finding about black lives matter. Weve asked them what do they think about the black lives matter movement. This was three years ago when we asked them this but i dont think its changed a lot. I think the nuances changed slightly. We asked them what are your views on black lives matter, do you view them on positive or negative . 75 of officers who have over eight years of experience have negative views of black lives matter. 80 . Whats interesting about that is there really arent any racial differences there. Black officers are just as likely to have negative view. Now, younger officers, their views are a bit more nuanced. In policing, often times policing is correlated with age. Not always. If you have an officer whos only off it three years, theyre more likely to be younger. If they have ten year, theyre more likely to be older. While black officers have negative views, white officers, 75 of white officers with high levels of experience view black lives matter as a terrorist organization, even explicitly comparing black lives matter to the kkk. So, we have to be very clear about the perceptions. And then we have to think about what does it mean for just a black person to be walking down the street with a black lives matter shirt or hat on or even r about the perceptions, and then we have to think about. What does it mean for a black person to be walking down the street with a black lives matter shirt or had on. Even a white person, part of whats happening with 2020. If we look at portland and seattle, its mostly like white people protesting and continuing those protests. That perception instantly fluids a negative view. The other side of it, officers who feel differently, who do want to speak up and speak out against Derek Chauvin and others. They are stigmatized internally, they are more likely to be disciplined, less likely to be promoted. More likely to be put on certain types of rounds and duties that other officers dont want to do. Part of it is a broader continuum, thats structural in nature that leads to a culture of policing. That could have detrimental effects, not only on Police Officers mental and emotional health. But also the way they treat us. Thats interesting, its so interesting that you say. That i bought a black lives matter mask the other day, and i was getting ready to walk into my store. I live in Northern Virginia i dont think anything of it. My daughter said to me, are you sure you want to put that on . We have to go in the store mommy. And its not because shes less political, but because of what you said. The perceptions, in this racial time, i still wore it anyways. Kristen i want to go back to you, i think what ray shawn is talking about is one of the reasons that we may have this miss administration of justice. Underneath this code exist that actually says something about the militarization of these movements. That may even with the video, showing a black man being shot, showing a black woman being shot, we still are at this place where there is a failure to actually get these into any level of prosecution. Speak to us on that particular aspect. I did bring up to walter scott example, because he ended up being one powerful instance in which the by Standard Video is what was used to bring the officers to justice. Which proved that he falsified a report, which proved that he planted evidence on mr. Scott. Which prove that shot him in the back as he was fleeing. I do think that we need to continue to be courageous and records these and sedans. We wont always see justice, but they are critical tool, a critical weapon in holding officers accountable. Theres another piece to this that i want to bring up, and that is recording protests. As they are taking place and carrying out. Protests are kind of a remarkable moment, you have the public protesting the very institution that is surrounding them and surveilling them, and often using force as a tool to constrain their activities. We have seen in the ensuing weeks that Peaceful Protesters have been assaulted, that members of the press have been assaulted. And thats in large part because cameras are rolling. My organists organization, along with the aclu of d. C. , and the d. C. Lawyers committee recently followed filed a federal lawsuit against the Trump Administration. For the vicious assault on peaceful demonstrators carried out in lafayette square, white right in the shadow of the right house. Many of you may recall this moment, where President Trump comes out with attorney general barr, and other administration officials, and there are a group of demonstrators assembled. That included a mother and a nine year old child, a pastor, a veteran, this is a multi racial, multi generational group. Without provocation, without provocation, attorney general barr ordered the use of violence against that group. We had the u. S. Park police, the secret police, all kinds of federal Law Enforcement flanked in riot gear that fired pepper bullets. That fired use their batons to disperse this peacefully assembled crowd. The Trump Administration will come up with its own version of events that day, but one of the reasons why we were able to pursue this suit, was not just because of the very compelling truthful and powerful accounts of our clients. But we have it backed up on video, we have it all backed up on video, and feel very confident in this case moves forward in federal court. That we have a pretty iron clad case, that makes clear exactly what transpired that day, because so many cameras are rolling. Its not just about the horrendous police shootings, its also about the protest activities, and that to me is critical to preserving this Racial Justice movement that is underway right now. I think that you are so right that the ability to actually use these technologies in a way that is degrading to surveillance, and the fact that i will come back to you minion. Last time we heard about this type of surveillance was in the sixties, when people were surveilled. In your opinion, as you think about this, has the technology become so strong that it can actually work on both sides of the coin when it high comes to helping and hindering us . I often talk about technology as being agnostic. It really is, it means it is a means, it is a platform and conduit. It a is used to reflect and to capture what is going on during that particular time. I read a commentary about who put this in a way when we talk about these platforms in a way that i could not. She said, every historic event has its ideal medium of documentation. Just think about it, it sounds simple. At first it was the oral history, then we had printed, via books or newspapers. Then we had, still pictures and then radio and television. And now you have the video component, you know how this quirky things often i picked the word of the day. All of this and what we talk about, the platforms which this exchange is resting, all of this offers validation. To me, thats my word of the day when we talk about this panel. Validation. The things that we have been saying, the things that in our community were so self evident. The video component offers validation. What it does not offer unfortunately, is justice. It does not guarantee that. So the rest of society, needs to heal and fix itself, but it is very clear, it is very visual. We have the documentation, the validation for the concerns. We have a lot of other healing to do in order for that to match up and to deliver justice. Thats right, thats why i asked people to put digital duck justice as a concept ive been working on around what you do next when you give people the power of technology. Or you exclude them from the power of technology. This all centers around justice, justice for people to have access. And justice that people can follow through on that access, there are no tradeoffs here. I want to talk to you to, because we are doing this project that Takes Technology to the next level, around facial Recognition Technology. It fits taylor takes this type of bondage, when people are equipped with these types of tools. Speak for a moment about what happens when you take it to the next level. And you Start Talking about Artificial Intelligence and facial recognition. Especially what kristen talked about in terms of surveillance. I think on the surface, oftentimes we assume that technology has no biases. Overall people have the ability to control it, thats true, we can see technology from their own perspective. Take body warm cameras for example. It gives you a particular viewpoint, if its on a Police Officer, it shows what happened to them. Or actually shows what they might have done to something else, and who their act interacting with. That evidence is brought into court, body warm can your evidence is more likely to oftentimes help validate Police Officers of use of things. As it is for the general public, depending whats going on. We Start Talking about algorithms, the perceptions is that machines do something, and these machines are objective. Oftentimes we forget that people create those machines. People create those algorithms, and thereby aziz inform whats happening there. So we know from, a host of programs that we can highlight. The biases and vetted in the algorithm it is a high likelihood that peoples faces are going to be miss classified. Black peoples faces get miss classified more because our faces are less likely to be part of the algorithm that informs the decisionmaking process. Black women in particular are more likely to be miss classified. Especially with hair. We can think about the implications of that when we Start Talking about whether or not facial Recognition Technology should be able to be used in court proceedings, to make decisions. One thing i know about policing, it does not stop Police Officers from using facial Recognition Technology in the way that they go about their work. The problem is, there are two really prominent studies on highlight this. In boston and i like to tuck highlight one is in california. This one in it used a group of, boston athletes from the patriots, from the red sox, from the south. And completely miss classified their faces and confuse them as being criminals. So we can think about the implications of that. In california, they used members of the state legislator to look at facial recognition. And again mix them up with potential criminals. Hopefully youll speak to this as well, nicole, i dont want to say this part for you around the legislation that is being passed federally are on how to hold some of these things and check. The technology is moving so fast that part is when we talk about Law Enforcement, Law Enforcement lost once the new shiny toys like everyone else does. If a tech company is coming in, and a Police Department doesnt have to pay for that, the Police Department will use it. They are also then using it to about who they arrest, the decisions that they make, i know this because i do some of the stuff. They will use the Technology Even though the laws havent caught up. So policy makers are light years behind, and i use that terminology deliberately. Light years behind, because when we had the iphone in the late 2000s. Over the past 13 14 years, the speed in which technology has advanced is astronomical. Our decisionmaking process, hes at the local state, and particularly at the federal level have not been able to keep up. Because i think that goes to, talked about the shiny devices as he always likes to reference them. That Law Enforcement gets. The shiny device that we only have is this phone, or some form of medium to record these instances. Were now hearing, and someone just put it on twitter some referencing before we go to q a. Police officers tell us turn off your video. The young 17yearold girl that taped the george floyd incident, has been harassed. So what do you do, what do we have our citizens to be able to further the use of new technologies to advance civil rights and social justices . This is tough, because we see officers making, you know, judgments on the fly. In 2020 every Police Department should have a policy, in officers who are trained about respecting the First Amendment rights of the public to record their actions. And should have policies that speak to the very narrow set of circumstances in which it might be appropriate for an officer to seize a camera. If theres a serious assault, or a Violent Crime that happened. And an officer sees somebody who may have a recording of that Violent Crime, and feels that that evidence may be destroyed. Theres some narrow instances where it may be appropriate for an officer to seize that evidence. 99 of the time, and the Justice Department interestingly enough has some policies on this. There is no justification under the First Amendment for an officer to seize someones camera. You have to get a warrant. You have to get a warrant, like anyone else. You cannot interfere with somebody as they are recording. I saw one of the questions that came in over social media, kind of size, what do you do if a cop says turn it off, or step away . You know, this is kind of one of those moments where again, it requires instilling our rights and being courageous. And having that courage, because we have seen time and time again, how but for that video we would not be talking about these police shootings. We would not be talking about these deaths, we would not be in this moment that were in right now. Where weve got one of the nations largest Racial Justice movements ever. Fueled in part by people who are courageously stepping out, and showing the brutality thats always been there. And putting it up front, close and personal for everyone to see, in ways that have made the public very uncomfortable. Weve now made it impossible for them to look away. My hope is, people will continue to exhibit that courage, and that part of the work that we do on the reform side, is that we work to push forward the reforms needed to overhaul policing in our country. To make sure Police Departments have clear policies, that they train their officers on, by which, they are respecting the First Amendment rights of the public to record what they do. Thats, right when i was, we talked about making sure the Civil Rights Organization were able to actually feel comfortable recording these instances. I know maria is watching out there, i do give you shouts for that. That was the first time that was recognized for his efforts. Before we go into cuba in a i want to ask you all, were at an opportune time this is one of the first times that we have seen this continue its. Six months, as people have called it, the multiple pandemic. Covid and racism all operating at one time. Again, with black lives matter seeing this energy thats actually existing. What people are now saying, yes black lives matter must matter. And we will tell you why look at the tape. I want to ask you all because we are on the eve of another 48, 50 days before election. What would you think are some of the policy takeaways that we need from this . I know that congress recently has passed things like, the antilynching bill. Which allows us to really condemn modernday lynchings. I know theres also a bill right now that is before the house, which is around the Racial Disparities and health care. And Diana Pressley as one of the cosponsors of that. All around making sure that there is anti Racism Research when it comes to health. I think that race sean and kristen, there needs to be some type of take around the explicit use of these types of videos devices for the administration of justice. I would like to hear from each of you what do you think are the policy takeaways, so were not just having these conversations around having something in your pocket to record something that. What can we do to actually be a real cage, a real takeaway in terms of policy . Im going to need someone to help me with this, but heres something that is bold by a way of how i feel but it might not be precise in terms of how i share it. When we talk about ai these platforms these algorithms that are used. To dispense justice i believe they should pass a certain test before they get purchased. I believe they should adopt some of the characteristics of the california law, that demands diversity when it comes to the boards. I think we should demand Diversity Inclusion in oversight as well as in evaluation. Before the first penny is spent, before the first our mp is delivered. That theres some type of review board that will look at that to make sure there is not unjust, or bias built into the system. I would say, tackle it head on. Be an apologetic and forward thinking about things as opposed to is going, oh my gosh. 30 of the time my face is not recognize, or i am misidentified. Again, African American females have the worst outcomes when it comes to facial recognition. We need to make sure that it is built in, so it allows an application impact to be billed in at inception. Im i was on a panel the other day with some distinguish academics from all over the country. And they did this, snap snap snap. In agreement for what youre actually talking about, im going to break it up. All here from kristen and come to you. Policy takeaways, weve heard that we have to have a better review of inclusivity, of representation, of these types of technologies that are being deployed. Kristen in terms of you, what would be some policy takeaways so that these videos are not done in knots . I think this needs to be a part of the overall conversation that were having about how we reform policing. The house passed a George Floyd Justice and policing act, under the leadership of congresswoman bass. And sadly that bill is collecting dust on the desk of mitch mcconnell. On the local level, as we continue to drive and push, and press our demand for policing reform. This needs to be an issue on the table, making sure that Police Departments understand that theyve got to respect the First Amendment rights of the public to record their activity. Its interesting because this conversation plays out at a moment when were seeing increasing and troubling use of drones. Surveilling black communities, so there is a tension there that i want to acknowledge. But i think this needs to be again a part of a real conversation about how we overall police. Its not just banning the chokehold and banning racial profiling and creating databases to track bad cops. To prevent them from moving from one department to another. Those are incredibly important issues and its equally occupies a central role in that conversation. I i think that that actually becomes a take away within a legislation. Which some have not talked about, so im very glad you brought that up. Were going after criminal Justice Reform in terms of tackling the precedents that we have. Perhaps we need to enable these types of technologies, in a positive way to ensure that they can be admissible and capture without any type of reforce. Before we go to questions, what would you have the policy take away . Thats all i got. I think, they nailed the head on the george for Police Justice act, it is the most transformative police reform. If people want that to not collect dust, because honestly i have a problem with that as well. People need to think about november, more broadly, when we think about the political landscape. If various people win in november, across the board, from kind of the presidency through the senate and house representatives, particularly the senate. All of a sudden the george floyd policing act becomes lost. Specifically on ai, yes we need proof of concept, yes we need evidence based research. Yes we need randomized controlled trials, and yes we need proof that equity and diversity has been included from top to bottom. Including the face issues to inform the ai, as well as people making decisions to actually fund the ai algorithm and technology. I think the sort of things will be very transformative moving forward. One big thing of police and i pushed. After studying this for a decade, if we really want to make big, the biggest impact we could have on policing. The biggest thing ive learned is that Police Officers lack accountability with the communities they serve. They have a lot of internal accountability, thats not external. If we really want to do something about that, a way to circumvent qualified immunity, is to ensure that civilian payouts for Police Misconduct shift away from tax money, to Police Department insurance policies. All of a sudden, that only puts a financial burden on Police Departments, even if municipalities are paying for it. And there would need to be legislation on that. Its also about giving Police Chiefs and other people in a Police Department, a market driven, evidence based record. Thats certain officers like chauvin are costing municipalities a lot of money. Just to highlight one city, two cities quickly. Chicago, they spent 650 Million Dollars over the past two decades on civilian pales for Police Misconduct. That money does not come out of the Police Department budget, it comes out of the general funds, as much as people like to talk about prime crime on the west side of chicago. Imagine if that money went to education equity. Went to work infrastructure, including training people for tech jobs which is where the market is going. And then in new york city, they spent about 70 Million Dollars almost annually on civilian payout for Police Misconduct. That is money being wasted, because Police Officers are ms. Treating people, oftentimes black people. Not always, oftentimes mistreating white people, asians, latinos. I think we can make these changes, and of Course Technology is a big part of it, the perception that technology is going to be a solution to those types of things is the wrong way to approach it. I want to go into it i will open it up to all of you, questions keep coming into. Are you telling me, that yes, weve got a deal with the structural foundations of the civilian payouts. The lack of accountability among the Police Officers. I just want to know, what happens to these videos . Is there something that can be a Police Officer that has these kinds of videos attached to his name or her name record, how many sacrificial lambs do we have to add that all recorded on tape, before a Police Officer is held accountable. Particularly when the viewing is good, were not talking about grainy videos. I would like some response to that, because i think that to your point, we have to figure out a way to bring these outcomes of technology. Let me weigh in, im from charleston, we had an opportunity set and painful to meet with some of the members of the scott family. If you look at the background of the officer, this was not his first negative encounter. Nor was his First Encounter that resulted in death. And so, when you talk about accountability, it has to work both ways. If youre asking for the community to be accountable for itself, you need to look in the mirror also. In terms of Law Enforcement. And to be accountable to the community. We have to walk and chew gum at the same time, and not be good you go first and then we. It has got to happen simultaneously, it has to be intentional. If we want the communities and the perceptions to improve, everybody has to give simultaneously. Did you want to jump in . I just wanted to say a word about police Union Contracts, which i think are a real barrier to reform. Even in the instance where you may have a powerful video documenting use of Excessive Force or deadly force. By a cop, often, the terms of collective bargaining agreements will give that officer the opportunity to see all of the written statements, all of the photographs all of the rig video recordings first. Before they come up with their iteration of what transpired as we just think about the world that we need to move towards. I do think that keeping police Union Contracts and how they stand is a barrier to reform is an important thing to put a pin in. And keep on the table. I have a couple of questions thank you so much for all of this. My heart is so full when i do these conversations. Its so full to actually be given as dialog. And i think were on to something lets keep talking about this. A couple of questions i want to share before i go. We assume, and the system and, that everyone has access to. How many killings and shootings are happening to people who dont have the access to recording. Anne were having this event the question is from her. She said black lives matter getting internet to everyone in our country around these Racial Disparities especially things like education and access to technology. Any conversation, all swing anne question a different way. People who are disempowered and disconnected, and how they are going to leave this program, you can continue watching online on cspan. Org
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