Terrific conversation with the terrific guest on an interesting topic, so thank you for your presence this morning. Y name is Eric Farnsworth i head the Washington Office of the counsel of the americas and the America Society. It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to review this book today, and to talk a little bit about the latino immigrant experience in the United States. Our guest is ray suarez, who has written a really terrific book entitled latino americans the 500year legacy that shaped a nation. Its a companion to the Ground Breaking pbs series on latino americans. In barely 250 pages, ray takes the reader through the broad sweep of Latino History in the United States, even before there was a United States, from the spanish explorers to the modern day. Its a majestic effort, in my view. Seeking to discover and highlight the history and future of the latino experience in the United States, and to put in context in order to build a broader appreciation for latino experience. It helps us understand, frankly, some of the issues that have become so important to washington politics today. As all the you know, the America Society and the coinlt of the americas are generally known for our work in the western hemisphere, including latin america, and canada. The immigrant experience is something that each of our nations have in common. We are a hemisphere of immigrants. For over five years, our immigration and Integration Initiative have sought to advance dialogue around the Economic Contribution of immigrants and latinos to the United States. We believe that greater integration and appreciation for the socioEconomic Contribution of the Migrant Community will as theyr nation, pursue a sound policy framework within which we believe comprehensive Immigration Reform must play an Important Role that encourages the full participation of the imMigrant Community within the u. S. Economy as a critical pillar of economic development, growth, and community strength. And thats precisely why the book is so timely. It must be said that the latino experience in the United States hasnt been all perfect understood. And the integration process is not always perfectly smooth. Ray gives us the story, warts and all. Thats what makes it so powerful. Its a story of resilience, sacrifice, and ultimately success. Its a story of america. And there is perhaps no better person than ray suarez to wrinl it. You will know him for the National Correspondent for newshour and npr talk of the and you might reviewer. Im as a last may, he interviewed Anthony Kennedy in one of the most thoughtprovoking rule of law issue in the hemisphere i have ever heard. I have to say that my assignment today as the interviewer of an interviewer [laughter] is a little bit like going one on one with michael jordan. So im looking forward to the experience. Hes a prolific author. Hes received numerous awards for his groundbreaking awards in journalism. And you have his expanded biography as well, if you care to look at that. Ladies and gentlemen, would you please join me in welcoming ray suarez. [applause] i want to get to the story you told, ray, on the latino experience in the United States. , as i join you here before we do. But before i do, i want to explore a little bit of your motivation for writing the book. What was it that attracted you to the story. What if you hope achieve . Ray when pbs decides it was going to start raising the considerable millions of dollars that it would take to put a project like this on the air, i should tell you a little bit about what is going on in modern television. You dont just do a documentary anymore. These days when you go to the big philanthropic organizations in the arts and humanities, in the social sciences, they want to know what your ancillaries are. So you cant just make a tv show, theres also a school curriculum. Theres also a dvd. Theres also an online presence. Theres an interactive portion of the whole project where people who read the book or watch the tv series upload their own stories of their American Journey online and interact with other people. The big givers want to know about engagement. So from the very beginning there was always going to be a book, and the producer of the series approached me to tell me the series was coming. I said, great. When can i start working on the narration . And he said, no, no, no. I dont want you to do the tv show. I want do you write the book. And i said, all right, well, thats fine. Just at the same moment i was shopping around proposals with new york publishers for a new book and meeting with some mixed interest. So here it was a book in my lap. It was time to get going. It was perfect. The topic was right on time. And also, the discipline was good because unlike a book where you decide what is in it or not in it from beginning to end, i had to work with the producers of the Television Series all along the way. They were watching what i was was watching what they were doing. My chapters changed the way they saw their episodes, and their episodes shaped my chapters in return. We had to mirror each other to a degree. Right at the outset i said to the producer, so can i just go away and write a book about the latino experience in the United States . And he said, no, actually it has to kind of go with the tv show. [laughter] so, benjamin brat did a lovely job narrating the tv series. I did a couple of promotional appearances around the country with benjamin and watched as we ended and as people rushed the stage. They took his picture. [laughter] actually, it was hard to do with camera phones. They were able to narrow it to the point where they just got the very handsome and talented benjamin. Not putously said why ray in the picture too . It cuts you down to size in washington a city where tv journalists think they can act like movie stars to be with the real movie stars is a imriewfl and humbling experience. [laughter] did you find the story in any particular way to be personal . I mean, did you take it as an academic exercise . Did you take it as an exercise, as you mentioned, in term of working, obviously, with the Television Series and that side . Did you put a little bit of yourself in to it. Explain how it worked. Obviously i would have written it a different way based on my background, etc. Thats a great question, obviously, im implicated in the story. My reason my family is here because we are implicated in the story. As a reporter and as a writer, i had to think, all right, well, do i put that in the book . Its not in the tv series. Do i make personal notes along the way about what i remember about specific era or tell my own stories in covering, for instance, the Immigration Reform and control act of 1986 . I decided to keep an arms length distance, so to not drop out of the voice that i was using to tell the story and get personal very often. One time i broke character was to note that when i was a kid there were only two latinos on television of any note. Desi arnaz and quick little friendhe with the crazy spanish accent. And use that as a moment to note how much things had changed in the fifty years since i was a kid. Since now its a little better. You can see people like me on the air. I dont have to wear a sombrero. There were times where i was temped to break character. I thought maybe i should tell people how i thought about it and decided not to. Eric as an author that would have been a i dynamic tension to figure it out. I think you did it remarkably well. I think it was a passionate book, but clearly done from the perspective just as you say as somebody a little bit distanced, soand su can tell the broader weep. I want to get to the broader sweep and the actual book. You know, youre telling 500 years of history and projecting a little bit to the future. Thats a long time period to cover in 250 page exps you give us some of the highlights . You know, in term of the overall sweep of history, what are some of the things you think define the latino experience in the United States . Even smaller issues that might ave a broader resonance . From the very beginning, in working with the producers of the documentary, we sort of gamed out how we were going use individual stories to be stand in for era in history. So we would explain what was going on in the wider story by using one persons experience. You couldnt tell a highly indepth academic history. You have to write a shelf full of books not a modest 250page volume or indeed, six hours of television. You just couldnt do it. So we looked for stories that helped explain a wider truth about what was happening to millions of people at once. So, a person who came to california as a foundling in the early years of the 19th century was put on city, she a ship, brought up the coast, was brought to the missions as a to sewhild, talk and read. Theyained their trust and made her a manager of mission holdings. Eventually when the missions were secularized, and seized from the church and given to others after mexican independence, she became the largest woman landowner in northern mexico, quite an outstanding thing to happen in mid 19th century mexico. And yet, she lost it all when the United States came after the mexican war. So both her rise, her existence. , her life coming from an or fan inch in mexico city to the rough frontier of what was then northern mexico, to end up 80 years later sitting and telling her story to an american historian who was chronicling the story with the assumption that these people would disappear. That the mexico cultural deposit in that part of the world would be overwhelmed by the yankee arrival. And that you needed to take this story down so that we would use it to remember that once upon a time there were mexicans here. It showed a misconception on the part of the englishspeaking new kids coming west. It showed a misconception about how people interact with the land they are living on and how they remain in place. It was also a great story. So it served all the masters. Who ledy of one person spanishspeaking regiment fighting for texas independence against the government of mexico, who ends up in exile in mexico. It was a country he took up arms to fight against. We felt that was an important story because it showed that constant duality and the constant challenge which people do you belong to . Which country do you belong to . Are you really here and stale part of there . Once again, thank god, writes a passionate, fascinating memoir at the end of his long life to discuss how he felt he had been used and betrayed by both the americans and the Mexican Government of the time. It made his story easier to write. We knew from the historical record. Are as memoirs, which fascinating time to the history of both countries. And in the 20th century, stories like that of a person who goes to the Supreme Court of the United States to establish in law the ability of puerto rican s to move to the american mainland as people coming from another part of the United States instead of as immigrants. Her fiance is living legally in the u. S. , in new york city, in the first years after the spanishamerican war. This person comes to new york harbor on a boat laden with Agricultural Products from the caribbean. Two people come on the deck. The customs inspector of new york harbor and the inspection inspector. He tells the woman from san juan she has to go ellis island. And she says, no, i dont have to go to ellis island. Im from puerto rico. Stripes fly over san juan harbor. You took this place from spain in war. How can i be an immigrant . And even after the case becomes legally moot because she marries her fiance and becomes legally resident in the United States, because she has a head of steam over this issue, she fights it to the Supreme Court, wins, and establishes the right of Puerto Ricans to look at the United States as the wider country instead of being trapped in this of 3500 squareld miles floating in the caribbean. Just great, Great Stories that help explain how you guys were there, why we are here, and how the history of the hemisphere is intertwined from jump street. I mean, if you read the writings and speeches of those people, they talk about jefferson and washington. They were on fire for the american revolution, just as they were on fire from the french revolution. When you read one person, he talks about the United States as the republic of freedom and until he spends 11 years in exile and gets to see both the down sides and the upsides of life in the United States, hes a fascinating chronicler of late 19th century American Life seen from outside. So it was a great privilege to be able to bring these stories to readers who may think they know a lot about this before they sit down. And as i said in the introduction, i havent done my job if at least once a chapter youre saying, i didnt know that. Eric i think you did the job well. I consider myself one of these people aware of these issues. Ray and by definition. [laughter] presumably, but it was a constant learning, which i thought was successful. Another success of the book was clearly you talked about the positioning Latino History as American History or u. S. History, which, i think, is absolutely true. And i think do you an effective job doing it. Let me ask a question that follows from that, then, and its not necessarily an easy question. But, you know, you point clearly in the book to periods of time when latinos have not been accepted, discrimination, difficulties. I guess the question i ask is, you know, why has it been some cases so difficult for the Latino Community . I recognize the Latino Community is not a uniform community and you clearly discuss that in the book as well. There are different heritages, different histories, Different Countries of origin, etc. , but help us understand a little bit the experience has been as difficult as it has been considering that, you know, again, as you point out, the spanish conquistadors were in the United States before the english. And not to say theres not a melting pot aspect to it, but there seems to be a disconnect there. Well, there are two pillars to the answer. One is the real world of power and wealth and the ability to project power and win the long game, which the anglo americans clearly did in this part of the continent. The other part is what goes on in your head, the idea that some people are naturally fit, naturally prepared by nature to rule, which was living inside the heads of the people who stormed west and basically won the argument. I begin the book by reminding the reader that this story starts with contending empires, and, you know, the english clinging to a bunch of coastal colonies facing the eastern sea board. The french empire, and if you look at the map of the french empire in the 18th century in reallymerica, it is stunning what it takes in. And spain, of course, and how all three big empires had their elbows out and were bumping shoulders, and vying for dominance in the continent. And russia was heading down from alaska. I me, they get as far as northern california, and one of the reasons the missions were sent as a network and archipelago of settlements as far north as they were was because there was a fear of russian expansionism down the west coast of north america. So all these empires vying for resource, vying for influence, vying for territory. And it ends in this part of the continent with English Speaking United States and canada basically winning the argument. Yet, that doesnt mean you totally erase or efface everything that happened before. So we end up with a kind of funny america where people sit fuming in traffic on the i5 between san diego and los angeles complaining that people dont speak english. That we have fights over the status of spanish in florida where spanish was spoken for a century before anybody spoke english. And they treat it like its a new thing that people want to speak spanish in florida without thinking too deeply where the word florida comes from. So theres a symbolic and cultural and sort of attic full of archetypes we carry around in our head. And then there is the real rough and tumble word of trade and ports and rivers and money and resources, and both of those worlds are part of shaping what happened after he was wandering and and what become new mexico and arizona and west texas. Not even sure where he was. To you know, it is tough compress that all. Sometimes i felt like i was doing a quick pastiche. In other words to understand it you have to remember the thing i havent told you yet. It was challenging sometimes. Eric one of the areas that you point to in term of clear successes where the latino population has clearly broken mentionednd then you some of the Cultural Icons in the entertainment space, and we have seen that grow over the years. One aspect is on my mind because the baseball playoff. One aspect you dont touch on in the book is the whole sports contribution. Actually, there was a fascinating documentary on pbs sometime ago called the republic of baseball, which referred to the dominican contribution to baseball and the San Francisco giants. Its fascinating stuff. You can project that. Some of the heroes in playoffs this week. Why did you choose to focus on what you did and maybe not go deeply to the athletic experience . Im glad you asked me that. Im a huge sports fan. And i love particularly love baseball. I felt that that part of latino life in america had been adequately covered and is adequately covered in 100 other places. So if i have a finite space to tell the story, i thought better use that time telling you things you dont know instead of retelling things you already know. But my editor came to me after the complete manuscript was in, and he said, you know, i think you really do have to Say Something about all of this. And so i wrote a couple of pages about baseball, but being a pain in the neck, again, didnt concentrate very heavily on others, evenn and though i love them, but more on how baseball was exported from the United States to latin america, and then how it that echo came back to shape the game in the late 20th century. Eric in fact growing up as i did in chicago, some of my first hispanics in to the chicago cubs. White sox players. And, you know, but you see them as the part of the american past time. Its really interesting how that works. And thank you for that discussion and explanation. Were going do go to those in the audience who may have questions or thoughts. Before we do, one other question i want to, i mean, youre an expert on the issues. Surely you learned perhaps some things you didnt know. I like to ask what was the most surprising thing. In all of your research, writing, and the things you put in the book or maybe some of the things that were on the cutting room floor most surprising thing you found that you didnt know . You said, first of all, i didnt know that. Second of all, its an important thing. Ray i knew a little about the rise of the mexican n, basically, the Latino Civil Rights Movement that was very much rooted in the experience of the g. I. In world war ii who went to go free asia and europe from murderous, fascist countriesble to come back to the united and find after accomplishing this great task, they were treated as other than fully enabled first class citizens by their own nation. And the story of Hector Garcia, mexican born, comes like tens of thousands of other family to the tumult off the toll the mexican revolution, settles in south texas, despite all the becomes as, becaus medical doctor before the beginning of the second world war, has to convince his superiors, who dont believe him, that he actually is a medical doctor. Imagine. He has to bring his diploma and show them his physical diploma and the picture of his graduating class of residents from Creighton University in nebraska. Because they cant believe that a mexican is a drp. They take him out of the infantry and put him in the medical corp. And fights his way across europe as a decorated veteran and comes back and finds that less educate he grew uppeople with in border towns in south texas, cant use the g. I. Benefits, are prevented on purpose, by the poll tax from voting. I think americans, and rightly so, think of the broad term the Civil Rights Movement as a black american thing, as a black american experience. But across the southwest, segregated housing, segregated put onng, encumbrances the right to vote, the barring of the right to vote, the use of drawing district lines to make it impossible for mexicos who are were often the majority in the towns which they were living to sit on the county council to sit on the school board, to sit on the town board. All of those things finally made the effort which changes that for mexican americans, but also in a way that, i think, is touching and a little sad. The g. I. Forum also gets mixed up in the politics of the day over immigration. It becomes a very unpredictable player, not a friend of the exploited american agricultural worker being brought across the border. The g. I. Forum puts out a publication called , where correspondents from the forum head out to the field and chronicle the Life Experience there, not create sympathy or empathy for the most downtrodden people in america who get the tuce to your table, get the strawberries to your table, if you create an impression that these people are a danger to the United States and should probably be removed. So you this life trajectory of Hector Garcia from a refugee from the mexican revolution, to reaching the pinnacles of success in mid century america. A friend of senators, a friend, eventually, of president lyndon johnson. But similarly cesar chavez during his career. Not all that sure that bringing mexican workers up from mexico to work in American Industries is a great thing. Its a complex and fascinating story. And one i knew only the vague outlines of before i went work on the book. Eric fascinating stuff. Lets go those in the audience who may have questions. We have some circulating microphones to the extent people are interested in following up with specific thoughts or questions. If you can identify yourself by name and organization, if youre representing an organization, that would be fine too. Please. Good morning. I am jane terri from s. Ganization state american states. I have a question about Foreign Policy and about the future. We talked about in our community the human bridge between United States and the rest of the region and how it can express itself in modern diplomacy. I know youre a specialist not only in this but Foreign Policy. I wanted to hear your thoughts on that. Ray if you look at the broad arc of American History, every group that has come here has, first, had to find its feet, then has something to say about what is going on back home. Early in our history, germans were active in German Affairs in the late 19th century. Keeping their links to their homeland alive through language societies and the movement and other things in american cities. Italians, after the first world war, when they finally start to find their footing in america. Have organizations that speak to the United States government about what is going on back home, both pro and antimussolini. A strong strain of hard left activism, antifascism in american cities. And also a group strong group of americans who believe that italy is finally on the right track after the rise of mussolini. Similarly in the cold war period, captive nations week wasnt some odd holiday on the calendar, but in places like andeland, pittsburgh, chicago, it was a day where the people from country under the domination of the soviet block held demonstrations and marches ins denouncing the continued domination of lithuania, poland, and so on. So i take the view that once the bread and butter issues are more adequately taken care of, latinos will be more steadily and predictably heard on these issues. Even if you look at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus even over the history since the 1960s. He doesnt found it with herman and others in order to have a voice in the United States Foreign Policy toward mexico, he wants to improve the lives of his constituents in east l. A. And herman of his constituents in spanish harlem in the south bronx. So were on on that verge. I mean, certainly the post revolution, cubanamerican members of congress from south florida have never been shy about having their say about affairs back home. And i think you are going to more reliably see hispanic american elected officials be heard on issues outside bread and butter issues, which is still pressing in a world of sub standard schools and segregated housing and lower family incomes and so on. You are still going to hear them, first and foremost, on bread and butter issues. Theyre also like the germans, like the italians, like the polish of other eras be heard more on issues. I think youre seeing that, certainly, among civic organizations who have an interest in what is happening in central america. Who have spoken out on planned colombia and everything involved there. Free trade with peru. In places like that. And places like that. I think youre starting to see a more confident voice from people of influence and also from elected officials. But no, its not there the way its been with other communities in our history, and certainly other voices and their influence in the United States relationship with israel. Eric other questions . Please. I am an independentnt , and my question is i have not read the book yet, but do you have any issue of importance to the middle class . The middle class in latin american countries is rising up, a functionportant, that is different. Do you consider the middle class as an actor of political change . Ray i only touch on it lightly in chapter six, because the interest of the book is most squarely on latinos in the United States who are disproportionately still working class and poor. When their demographic profile more closely resembles that of americans at large, i think the middle class will even more commit to its own, sure. Its happening now. Its happening already. And in the rest of the hemisphere, its a big deal. But since i write so little about what is going on in other countries, it is a topic for my next book, actually. [laughter] its a great book for Something Else to write about. But it is not yet a big part of the inquiry that goes to the book. But a great question. Eric lets go to the back. John feelly from the state department. Ray, congratulations on the book and the documentary. It has been terrific to watch. My question has to do with prejudices, the archetypes we have floating around. In one of the documentary bit you covered and got old footage from the englishonly florida movement, and the irony is pretty rich about where the people were saying why dont they speak the language of this country kind of thing. That said, that persists. And as primarily mexicans but all latinoamericans have moved across the country we see in district by district in places like North Carolina and places Like Washington state, places you dont tradition nayly consider latino or hispanic communities, you see hispanics bumping up against anglos. And one of the persistent, i lessening think , is theyre different than our german, greek, irish grandparents, because they dont assimilate, they dont learn the language. We know statistically its not accurate, but that perception is still out there. Ray part of the wonderful it is part of the wonderful golden sepia tones to the past that drives me up a wall. I grew up in a neighborhood in brooklyn with kids who had to go with their parents, i mean, i waited in terror as my parents went to open school night to hear what they would to say when they came home. But the kids i was growing up, a lot of them had to go with their parents to translate. This idea that everybody learns english right off the plane and right off the boat is so nonsensical. Absolutely. Ray once grandma and grandpa conveniently die and no one can hear how they talk anymore, you can have this fantasy land where , allare quoting hamlet this stuff, and then compare them favorably to todays latinos, who by every single serious study of the topic, are acquiring english at the rate no different from any other immigrant group that has ever come here. And when i hear people tell these stories, i mean, depending on whether its deliberate to me in a sort of wonderful ellis island, golden light sort of reverie or done in an aggressive way, i call them out on it. Because i knew their grandparents, i knew the shopkeepers in my neighborhood who could say little more than numbers of what i owed them for what i bought for my mothers list on the piece of paper. I knew those nationals from other countries who learned english as they could. And if they were working long jobs as adults, it was very difficult for them to acquire english. Instead of being empathetic and saying, yes, your experience resembles ours, because once you went into the garment factories, the steel mills in Northern Indiana and pennsylvania, once you went into the coal mines, you worked all the time too. Just like we do. So your hungary speaking, polishspeaking great grandparents and grandparents had as much trouble learning. Nglish as we do the about touring be closed down steel works in chicago, i happened to walk into it was sorta, and of ghostly and weird, but up on the wall was a sign that said in five languages, dont throw out the trays. [laughter] and if everybody had learned english as i keep hearing they did, like right when they got here. Yeah, quoting robert frost but, cook, theyg alastair wouldnt have had to put up there in five languages dont throw out the trays. And so i know in the immigrant past people who came as adults and people when had to work long hours had sometimes a spotty command of the language. We used to assume that was part of the immigrant experience. Now we want something from people who just got here in some cases that we never asked from our former selves. It shows you the anxiety. To have a little compassion for the people who are feeling that rising dread about a country they dont think they recognize. They dont think they understand anymore. We have to remember this is a time of tremendous economic and social anxiety. Wages have barely budged at the middle point in 40 years. And so if youre working flat out and you see people around you just getting here and you have the feeling like, this was my birthright, and yet what are these people doing here . Also making a go of it in the united, and why dont they learn english . Somebody was once yelling at me. And i dont use the term lightly. They were yelling at me. About why it is an absolute requirement that there be a literacy test for voting. And i said, you know, i understand why you say that. But also think of my , grandfather, who came here in 1951, worked like a dog for the remaining 50 years of his life, probably went to the third grade, if that, and i think he spoke a kind of english. My wife tells me he didnt really speak english. And the idea that he would not be able to vote after president mckinley and the cabinet decide they want puerto rico to be part of the United States without asking anybody who lived there, later they should be able to tell my grandfather he cant vote seems problematic to me. There into theut world coming united fruit is building railroads and picking governments and causing the downfall of over governments and so on, you ought to expect a little bit of social and historical blowback. This is not a cost free proposition in the modern world. There we are. Eric thank you for putting it out better than i could have said. Its a frustration. So the question is given all of that, what do you think the role of social media, internet, and telecommunications is going do for the younger generations of hispanics in the United States whose parents are folks like our grandparent who speak a certain kind of english, but who are now consuming english . And is there a market for things like fusion or other websort of applications focused on young hispanics, as opposed to Young Americans . Scientist,litical who was also a political activist much of his adult life was said Something Interesting is happening, that latinos in the United States are being racialized. Theyre not. Theyre an ethnic group. Theyre being racialized by the way america does assimilation, by the way america does race. So fusion, i mean, after jews couldnt read yiddish, the daily print stopped printing in yiddish. They stoppedample, printing in norwegian. Fusion, which is a joint venture , is positioning itself for the world in which the grandparent of present day and recentpast immigrants, the grandchildren of those immigrants who will not be spanishdominant will think of themselves as Something Different than the american main tonstream, and will want consume media that tells a different story about america than the one the mainstream provides. That is an interesting and perhaps subversive idea about cultural assimilation. That youll still watch monday night football. Youll watch mtv, but youll also watch fusion because it has, it presents a slice of north American Culture that presumes that you have a slightly different set of interests culturally, socially, politically than that of your other neighbors who are not latinos. We will see how it goes. I mean, the internet, the internet and modern communication, i mean, there was network or programming for italians in the 1920s, so italian proficiency is gradually lost over time until hundreds of thousands of people who consider themselves proudly italian today in american metropolitan areas know how to say the words of foods, the name of foods, a few curses, and some old sayings in italian. Yet no one say, hey, youre not italian because you dont speak italian. Theres now the Latino Police who go around saying huh, youre not really latino because you dont speak such good spanish. Well see whether the future belongs to the Latino Police or whether it belongs to the fusion who say, yeah, im still latino even though like my italian buddies all i know is some cursing, sayings, and the names of foods. Well see where that goes. Out marriageme shapes the future. Large portions of selfidentifying latino adults are marrying people who are not and having children of, lets say yet to be determined selfidentification. Well see where it goes. When i was in scout, one of my kids was named Greg Hernandez. And i was shocked that i finally had a kid in my patrol named hernandez. So i go and say hernandez. He says, im not spanish. Im not. Im not. And where we were growing up, it was actually not the easiest thing to be. So i could understand why Greg Hernandez would say that. But Greg Hernandez had a cuban greatgrandfather, and because of the way we do names in the United States, that was the only thing that was even remotely latino about Greg Hernandez. In 2040, there going to be millions more Greg Hernandezs and mary lopezs and sally gomezs who have this cultural real lick, their legal name, and little more than that will we count them in this projected 130 million latino population . Will we . Should we . Does it make any sense if part of their selfconcept is not that they are part of this big people that is trying to figure out what their influence on the Wider Society is. And Greg Hernandez, you know, found it in his interest to insist and that he wasnt spanish. So, you know, a lot of this story is yet to be told. What latino assimilation is going look like in the coming decades may be a little different because its a mixed race population. And everything from milky white to ebony is part of this presumed 53 Million People who are part of the same thing, but maybe in subsequent generations its going to be much harder for some portions of those millions to move into the suburbs, to outmarry, to forget who they were, to have grandchildren named Greg Hernandez who insist vociferously theyre not spanish. Well see. I mean, its an exciting story. Thank god, in 2050 i wont still be writing books. [laughter] eric well, thats a great segue to the last question i think i have to ask. I know, we dont have any real time remaining. Its not fair to ask you to answer the question in a brief period of time. But all of that really leads up to and i thank you for the question, because it was a very good 1 what thoughts would so one what thoughts would so you in term of the state of Immigration Reform efforts in washington . I mean, we just went through an incredibly polarized debate on unrelated issues, but, you know, its a polarized washington. This is an issue that the president has spoken directly about, its an issue that kind of starts and stops and goes to different direction and openend question from your perspective, and the folks you talk to where do you think its going . Where is the endgame . Ray i think its very revealing that there was not this level of social anxiety about simpson me and the irca of 1986. The economy was growing, people had more money in the pocket, they were very happy to have spanishspeaking immigrants bus their tables, wipe their childrens behinds, do everything they were doing. And i think it is also very revealing that was the number of arrivals was hugely high during the late 1990s and early 2000s , this was not the fraught conversation it became. Its very hard to ask a country to take on more people. Not only more computer programmers and software engineers, but also more Agricultural Workers and house painters and landscapers at the time when wages have hardly budged, or they have declined, actually, for most american families. When unemployment is stubbornly high. When unequality among workers and between families has never been higher. Its a really hard thing to ask that country, with that economic profile, here, take on 12 Million People. And maybe someday down the road another 12 million of their brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers too. Who will have some form of claim on the wealth created by this country. To be determined. But some claim on the future wealth of this country. I think when you put it that way, it becomes much more understandable that theres been a sort of hysterical tone in some of these conversations that is made more difficult by the reality that yes, among those 11. 7 Million People, the most estimate from the pugh hispanic center, they are people who got here the day before yesterday, but have been working steadily , and they can be sent home with very little harm or foul. And among the 11. 7 million are millions who have longterm roots in the United States. Families and associations and church membership, saturday softball league, and a real life lived here in the United States. Real contributions, kids in school, real estate taxes, and all that goes with being a fullfledged adult economic actor in the society. Those people are harder to remove than the people who just got here the day before yesterday and overstayed a tourist visa. Those people are a challenge to our ability to craft a law that is both workable, that people will obey and seem to be fair. Not fair but seen to be fair. Because fidelity to the law has a mystical connection not only with workability and the mechanics of a law, but also the willingness of people to follow it, which is a big ingredient. Taxation in this country where we have voluntary 90 Million People file their income tax returns. If you dont file one, they wont find you for years. And yet we dutifully fill out, put it in the mail, and we do that with a feeling of some confidence if we dont do it nobody will know for awhile. Yet we do it. Its that x factor of laws that are followed not only because they are laws but seen to be just, seen to be necessary to the working of a just society. Whatever we do in immigration has to meet all of those tests. If its so hard because were shooting for Something Like fairness because people broke the law, if we set the bar so high that we create an incentive for flouting the law, will it be a good law . It will meet peoples tests of punishment and fairness and saying sorry to a country whose laws you have broken. But if it becomes so unworkable that it doesnt ask for fidelity, people wont follow it. If you tell people they cant become legal residents quickly, if you tell people they cant make a permanent connection for the country for 12 or more years, theyll do it end around. Because that sounds crazy. If you tell them they have to go home and get on the back of the line but the line is 17 years long, theyll just sneak in. Because years doesnt seem like 17 a law that can be followed. So it wont meet that test. Not only that is fair but seem to be fair, and able to be followed. If we change the highway speeds on american highways 40 miles per hour, it would be the law. There would be signs all over. Posted speed limit 40 miles per hour. No one would drive 40 because we would say, this is a crazy law. We cant follow this. So if you said, yes, we will allow you to stay but you center to go away and come back in 17 years, kiss your children goodbye, and quit your job. Well, people will say thats a crazy law and im not going to follow it. So we have to hit a sweet spot between laws that command our respected and can be followed, and also meet the demand of the people who are already here legally that we get our pound of flesh that something inherent in the law says im sorry i broke your laws. Thats a terribly tricky balancing act. I think we understate how difficult it is. Eric i would love to continue this conversation. We began by saying promising a fascinating conversation with a fascinating person and a fascinating topic. I think we met those very high standards. For those of you who have her interested, and i suspect and hope you are, copies of the book are available in the front. I have read it. Its a very good read. I highly recommend it. For those watching as well. Make sure you get your own copies. Ray can i say one thing . Here is an example where were going. Many, many general market books that have some interest among the 35 million americans who speak spanish, come out in english and some date in the future days, 120 days the , 90 following year come out in the spanish translation. Penguin brought the two books out on the same publication date. They see something in the future about the future that made the simultaneous dates not only symbolically important, but commercially important too. So. Eric well, please join me in congratulating and thinking ray thanking ray suarez. [applause] history bookshelf features the countrys bestknown history writers of the past decade talking about their books. You can watch their weekly saturday here on American History tv on cspan3. Thehis past thursday, dwight d. Eisenhower memorial was dedicated to the nations 34th president. His presidency is remembered at a site just off the national mall. Here is a preview. This is dday. Here we go. Greetings to all of our guests here tonight and to those of you watching. Could all bewe together to celebrate the completion of this magnificent memorial. However, the legacy of Dwight Eisenhower cannot be constrained by the size of the crowd because it is reflected in the freedoms that we live every day in america. The memorial designer and his partners unfortunately were unable to join us tonight. If the pandemic has taught us anything, it is that you dont have to be in the same place together. Frank, i know you and your team are watching the brilliance of this memorial. It will reverberate around the world and lift the legacy of dwight d. Eisenhower to living global audiences. Today, as we deli dedicate this memorial, we stand on the shoulders of giants who made it possible. Senators ted stevens and others. My favorite, senator murkowski who kept this whole effort alive through her gray support. Rate, we could not have done this without you and i appreciate it. I also want to thank my commissioners. Who allowed us to conduct our business in this supportive bipartisan way truly in the end of the man we are honoring tonight. I want to thank one commissioner and he is being thanked and deservedly so. That is bob dole. A man who fought bravely on the battlefields of italy. Wounded, hevely fought both his way back to both health and strength and a wonderful career in the United States senate. Inapplied that same tenacity the spirit of fundraising of this memorial because of his tireless efforts, the remaining heroes of the greatest generation can now come here and finally salute their commanding officer. Watch the full program this sunday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, 5 00 p. M. Pacific here on American History tv. Every saturday at 8 p. M. Tvtern on American History on cspan3, go inside a Different College classroom and find out about topics from the american revolution, civil rights, and u. S. President s to 9 11. Thanks for your patience and for logging into class. Most classrooms closed, watch the professors transfer the setting to a virtual classroom. Gorbachev did most of the work to change the soviet union, but Ronald Reagan met him halfway. Ronald reagan encouraged and supported him. Freedom of the press, madison originally called it freedom of the use of the press and it is the freedom to print and publish things. It is not freedom for what we now refer to institutionally as oppressed. On cspan3. Every saturday at 8 p. M. Eastern. Lectures in history is also available as a podcast. The 19 60 president ial debates between john f. Kennedy and Richard Nixon will be the focus of Alive Program next sunday, september 27 at 9 a. M. Eastern. Our guest is the president ial studies director at the university of virginias miller center. We will talk about how the debates came to be. At the issues, and how the debates created public expectations for later campaigns. Thats next sunday here on American History tv. You are watching American History tv, covering tv cspan style. All weekend every weekend on cspan3. Founded in 1841, the Georgia State lunatic, idiot, epileptic asylum became the largest Mental Institution in the world. In her book, administrations of lunacy, mab segrest tells its history and its role in the segregated south. Centeranta history hosted the discussion and provided the video. Hello, and welcome to the First Virtual author talk. For these talks. It tonight, i am talking with mab segrest in her new book
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