Welcome everybody. I am david moscowitz, i am head of Government Relations and Public Policy at wells fargo and im pleased to be here with you today. We are pleased to serve for the eighth year as a charter sponsor of the book festival and prouder to watch it grow to the incredibly popular, impactful event it has become. I wouldnt be surprised [applause] wouldnt be surprised to see us move on to some bestseller lists today. Its even more important to keep the book festival a free event for the community. The real purpose here is literacy which leads to learning an opportunity which matches our goal of helping our community succeed. Learning to love books and learning to Love Learning are what the book festival are all about. In this session, ron chernow will discuss his biography of ulysses grant. If we are lucky, certain other popular founding fathers. [laughter] one thing i learned from the story of president grant was how people can evolve and through persistence and hard work and knowledge and overcome their imperfections. Its an incredible story that reminded me a person of goodwill can learn from their mistakes and reach their potential. I hope you enjoy this session. Its my privilege to introduce the Deputy Director of National Outreach at the library of congress and our session moderator, colleen. [applause] thank you. Welcome to the 18th annual National Book festival. I am pleased to be joined on stage today ron churnow. In 2015, he won the National Humanities medal. His book on Alexander Hamilton was the inspiration for the awardwinning musical for which ron worked as a historical consultant. The library of congress is honor to have you join us today at the National Book festival. [applause] its worth noting that our cochair of the festival, David Rubenstein was supposed to conduct this interview today. Due to scheduling changes, because of senator mccains funeral, he was unable to do so. But i have davids questions here today and i just happen to be a big admirer of Ulysses S Grant and rons books so i think we will have a fantastic time at the book festival. Before we talk about grant, we need to ask a question about Alexander Hamilton. How could we not . When Manuel Miranda first approached you and said he wanted to create a hiphop musical based on your book, what was your reaction and did you think it would become a cultural phenomenon . People say when you are writing the Alexander Hamilton biography, did you have any idea it would be turned into a hiphop musical. I always think to myself the question answers itself. When i first met lin Manuel Miranda in the fall of 2008, he was costoring in costarring in his first musical, the height. It asked me to be this historical advisor to this yet nonexistent show. I said you mean you want me to tell you when something is wrong. He said yes, i want historians to take this seriously which was music to my ears. I was a little skeptical but i was quite intrigued. I thought nothing could be more delightful than to watch the evolution of a broadway musical. I was a lifelong theater goer and the offer to be on the other side of the lights was absolutely irresistible. It turned out to be a rocket ride far beyond anything i could have anticipated. So moving on to grant, you have a definitive biography of grant. I have to start with a cute question but has a good story. Whos buried in grants tomb . [laughter] when i first started working on the book in 2011, i found that approximately half of people when i told i was working on grant shot back, whos buried in grants tomb . So naturally i got interested in the arts and the joke origins. I traced it back to groucho marx. And some of you are old enough to remember he was dismayed that someone could not answer a single one of the questions. So he decided he would ask the contestant the question that every contestant could answer. That question was whos buried in grants tomb. To his astonishment, half of the guests got it wrong. Such is the staying power of a great comedian that the line has become a part of popular culture. Lets start at the beginning with grant. Where was born, what were the conditions of his upbringing and what was his family like . He grew up in a series of small towns and southwestern ohio, near cincinnati. Point placid was right on the ohio river. The significance of that was it separated the free state of ohio from the slave owning state of kentucky. On winter evenings, the ohio would freeze over an refugee fugitive slaves would spring to freedom. Important terms of thinking of grant later. He cryptically straddling the world of both north and south and understood both of their cultures. He came from a fairly welltodo family. His father was mayor of one of those three towns. His father was really the bane of his life. He was very pushy and domineering character. And then grant went to west point. He didnt want to but his father wanted him to go. His father saw west point as a free form of vocational education. How did he do at west point . Fairly well. I would say his performance was lackluster. He was 21st in the class of 39. There was already considerable attrition before that. He became famous for two things at the academy. One was he was probably the best sportsmen of his generation, if not century at the academy. He established a high jumping record. They set the bar at more than five feet and grant managed to clear it. He was also very good at drawing. This may seem strange and insignificant but, it was important for generals to be able to draw maps during battles. Grant was very good at drawing. During the civil war, he had an uncanny ability to visualize the battlefield. And it comes from this visual sense he had that was first reflected in his capacity to do so. After west point, he eventually ends up as a quartermaster in the mexican war. Why is his service as a quartermaster, why does that turn out to be extremely important because being quartermaster in mexico gave grant a nuts and bolts knowledge of the logistics of an army. Looking ahead to the civil war, grant would be in charge of 45 different armies stressed the costs 1300 mile front. His mastery of logistics and the railroad and the telegraph enabled him to supervise these vast armies. It goes back to being quartermaster in mexico and his family alike . Grant comes from this abolitionist family. He marries into a slaveowning family. The kernel becomes the vein of his life and was very hard on grant. Julia was very outgoing and vivacious. Julia always had a vision of grant future that he sometimes did not have himself. During the 1850s, hes trying and failing to establish himself as a farmer in st. Louis. Hes failed at a real estate venture. During this time, julia has a dream. She dreams that her husband was going to be president of the United States. When she tells her friends and family about this dream, everyone laughs. Nothing seemed more preposterous. This man is struggling to support a wife and four children. Julia knew. You spent a fair amount in the book talking about grants struggle with alcohol. What did you conclude . Did he have a problem with drinking and what evidence did you use to draw those conclusions . The debate has always been was he a drunkard or not . The term drunkard was a loaded with moralistic terms because it implies a person who is dissipated and irresponsible and is gleefully indulging this vice. He was an alcoholic. I say that because he could never have just one drink. I say that because even one glass of alcohol changed his personality but this is something he struggled against his entire life. He was a member of the temperance when he was in his 20s. The reason i think they were so much difficult with previous writers and his drinking. He could go days without having a drink but he would then go on these benders. Its a problem he struggles with. By the time he becomes president , hes largely conquered it but its certainly a problem that bedeviled him throughout the civil war. That causes him to leave the military. It precipitates his exit from the military. He was assigned to only, bleak garrisons in oregon and in california where he could not afford to bring his wife and children. He was lonely, he was depressed. He starts drinking. In 1854, he shows up at a table drunk and is drummed out of the service. So there was an active rumor mill. All of these stories of his drinking will follow him into the civil war and will very much color how people see him. I think were it not for that history, all of these stories about grants drinking. Abraham lincoln may have sooner in the war to act as general. You have a poignant description of him. He ends up on the streets of st. Louis selling fireworks to support his family. How does that happen . Try making it as a farmer. Julias wedding gift was to receive 60 acres which grant worked. He was very industrious but he couldnt make a go of it. He taking firewood, 10 miles into st. Louis and he walks beside the wagons. People who saw him in those days selling firewood said, he was bearded. Disheveled. Unkept looking. One of his Old Army Buddies ran into him on the street and was really shocked by his unkept appearance. He said to him grant, what are you doing . His response was, im solving the problem of poverty. One christmas he had to pawn his wants to buy christmas presents for his family. This was circa 1857. The civil war breaks out in 1861. Then something happens, fort sumter. ,,. Grant still had all that west point stored in his mind, moving forth with great distinction in the mexican war. He had been assigned, two different garrisons before the civil war, and so his efficiency, and his military knowledge immediately come to the forefront. Were grants rise, gives new meaning to the term meteoric. We two months after the civil war, he is a colonel and four months after he is brigadier general, and then 12 months after the outbreak he is major general, and then by the end of the civil war, this man who would be working as a clerk in his fathers Leather Goods store, in illinois back in 1860. So that man who seemed like a certifiable failure in, life is the general chief of the union army with 1 million soldiers under his command. Foreign away the Largest Military solution in the country up until that time. Now he had some early victories that catches the eye of lincoln is that correct. Yes absolutely agree very often, in the history of the civil war theres a disproportionate focus on virginia. It seems like the confederacy is winning battle after battle. Grant was winning one victory after another. In early 1862, he has twin battles against twin forts. In the northwest corner of tennessee. For henry and donelson. They were significant for the following reason, fort henry was on the Tennessee River and fort donelson on the cumberland river. Those two rivers penetrated deep into the confederacy. Particularly grants victory at fort donelson. Was one of three times he captured an entire Confederate Army. It also led to a new nickname for grant because the confederate general inside the fort was Simon Buckner who wanted to send a message to grant. He wanted commissioners appointed to negotiate a truce and grant wrote back, no terms except unconditional and immediate surrender will be accepted. I propose to move upon immediately. He became Unconditional Surrender grant. It was the first largescale victory of the war for the north. In late 1862, he issues order number 11 which expels the jews from his military district in the south because he believes they are engaged in an illegal black market cotton ring. Was grant antisemetic or did he regret that decision later on . He regretted it almost is as he issued it. As lincoln sought to immediately override. It was an inexcusable thing to do. People know that piece of the story. What they dont know is grant spent the rest of his life atoning for that action. As president , he appointed more jews than all of the other president s combined. He became the first president to speak on on human rights abuses. In both cases was because of persecution of the jews but one time in russia and one time in poland. Then most remarkable of all things were sitting in washington d. C. , during the last year of his second term, he was invited to the dedication of a synagogue. A very tiny synagogue. Grant went with his son and was a u. S. Senator. It was a threehour ceremony. Heres the president of the United States with a congregation of 3040 people. One hour into the dedication of the synagogue, the elders went over to grant and said mr. President , we are very touched you would come to this humble function. You can leave now in good conscience. Grant insisted on staying the full three hours. Reached into his pocket and gave a donation to the synagogue. It was one of the pleasurable Things Writing about him. He was not a prejudiced man. Not a man full of hatred. You can read statements on blacks and im you know this is really out of character for grant, and right away he apologized in tone for it to the rest of his life. He has a number of other successes, and then he has the victory at vicksburg, so why is vicksburg so in oppressive . And it was really a daring capture. We well it happened rug new orleans, baton rouge and memphis had fallen to union forces. It meant that the one great citadel, the great bastion on the river was vicksburg. It was located at that time, there was a bend in the mississippi that forced folks to slow down. There were seven miles of very elaborate fortification. It seemed like this in pregnable fortress. He had a very daring strategy to take vicksburg. Under cover of night, he had ironclad transports come down the river, despite heavy selling from the confederates. He also marched troops down the bank of the mississippi. They then crossed over vicksburg to the only dry land in that area. And then grant has this lightning campaign. He wins five major victories in a threeweek period. Surrounds vicksburg, lays siege and vicksburg surrenders at the same time as the victory of gettysburg. And for a second time, grant has captured an entire Confederate Army more than 30,000 soldiers. At that point, the union not only controlled the mississippi but it bisected the confederacy. A lot of these supplies, particularly horses and livestock came from the mississippi. So the Confederate Army was suddenly cut off from this major source of supplies. And that was grant. When did president lincoln bring grant east to lead the union army . In february 1864, thomas Congress Passes a bill reinstating the title of lieutenant general. The only one who ever held that was george washington. And grant becomes that lieutenant general. Its a wonderful story because in march 1864, he comes to washington. Although lincoln loved grant, he never actually set eyes on him before. He happened to arrive the same day that lincoln was having a reception at the white house in the blue room. Grant goes in. Lincoln warmly embraces him. There was such pandemonium in the room because grant was such a hero. That they urged grant to stand up on the sofa so people could see him because he was relatively short. He stands up on the sofa, he is perspiring profusely. So that people could see him. He was always a little bit socially awkward. Grant later said the hottest campaign he ever fought was standing on that sofa in the white house. [laughter] so grant was impressive on a tactical level, operational level and on a strategic level. How rare was that to find all three qualities in a general and how did he compare to robert ely in that regard . Robert e. Lee. He had an interesting comment when he was comparing grant and lee. They said his strategy embraced the constant, lee strategy [indiscernible]. Lee had to inflict so much pain on union forces that the northern public would weary and decide to give up the war. Grant actually had to capture and destroy Robert E Lees army. He really had a Strategic Vision because the various union armies and different theaters of war had been operating independently of each other. Grant coordinated their movements so that he turned them into a single fighting force. He saw the way to wear down the confederacy was by having union forces simultaneously attack different confederate armies to that they could not switch reinforcements from one to another. He finally pins robert e. Lee down in richmond. He said, Ulysses S Grant would have attacked the bedroom and the kitchen. Im not sure what he meant but in terms of attacking the kitchen. That goes back to grant the quartermaster. But what he did with lee if he began systematically to cut off every railway line and every canal feeding supplies to lees army. Finally starting it out and forcing them to flee. And forces surrender. That was then the third Confederate Army that grant captured. Robert e. Lee never captured a single union army. Its the most touching part of the story because he refuses to allow his soldiers to gloat or celebrate. He is very generous. The confederate soldiers are starving. He issues rations to feed them. Really i think the most beautiful passage and grants memoir is because grant instead, he was sad and depressed when he met lee. He writes, i felt like anything rather than rejoicing over the downfall of a person who fought with such valor and suffered such hardship for a cause. So the humanity and fairness and balance he brought that i think it will stay with us. Grant does not accept president lincolns invitation to attend for theater. What different would have happened had he been there. That happened late march, 1864 we can go down to city point virginia, where grant has his headquarters and murray lincoln, who is showing increasing signs of mental instability, mary lincoln throws a jealous fit, and she imagines that the young wife of general is flirting with her husband. And she starts to berate, and cant figure out what is going on and bursts into tears. Julia grant was there, and julia grant intervened to try to protect the young wife. And then murray lincoln, turned on julia grant and turn on her so angrily that the night the lincolns want to fourth theater, lincoln thought it was important that the public see the victorious general and president at the same time. So julie grant lay down the law to her husband and said i refused to go to fords theater, if mary lincoln will be there. So they made their excuses and they went off to burlington or new jersey where they had a house. So one of the great lines of history, if ulyssesesque grant had been in that box at ford theater, would lincoln would have had a security detail there . Would his instincts have sensed the assassination or the assassin entering the box. If its possible. Or maybe booth may have killed grant as well as lincoln will never know. How did grant manage to win the public and republican nomination in 1868. Well it was kind of a great guessing game that went on in terms of what his Party Affiliation was. It came from a wig family only vote, which had been for James Buchanan as president. And no one knew where he stood. He was in the right place at the right time, and he had his symbolic standing in american life. As a picture of the war, and also reconciliation between north and south. And what happened in 1868 it was a failed attempt, and they didnt impeach president johnson, he is not convicted. Which weakened radical republicans in congress. And grant, was in a position to straddle both wings of the Republican Party he. Had amount of prestige from the war, and he did not campaign openly. Grant had a funny kind of way, of not campaigning for things and sort of putting him in a position where things just happened to him. In his first term of office, the 15th amendment is enacted and ratified, and theres not flash of the in the south of violence, and there is a strengthening of the clue clocks clan. He spent a lot of time in the book, and you handled it definitely. What did grant do to combat the clan and was successful . So the clan, starts in 1866 starts out as a special club of confederate veterans, and they start wearing their own uniforms, and drilling and it becomes a militarist dixie create organization. Then of course they start putting on robes and hoods going out at night back and terrifying caring people. So but nothing terrify the white south more than the black man so. Black man voting. So the chair was very much directed against blacks voting, or registering to vote. There was no southern sheriff, who would arrest a member of the clan. There was no southern jury that would convict the cohen, there was no southern white who will testify against cohen. So there were hundreds maybe thousands, of murders of blacks that went on and prosecuted. And grant, head of very crusading attorney general. Named ackerman from georgia. He brought 3000, indictments and got more than 1000 convictions against the clan. And crushed the ku klux klan. It was his one of his greatest achievements as president. And the kkk as we know, is a resurgence of the clan from the 19 1919 twenties, and the world a lot of techniques and ideology of the original plan. So why were there so many corruption scandals in grants to terms of office. Was he complicit . Did he turned a blind eye . Or was he just oblivious to what was going on . Grant was incredibly naive and i will tell a story from his childhood which tells the story and you get much credit but when he was a boy his father wanted to buy a horse so he told ulysses to go to this farm and he gave him instructions. He said offer 20 to the farmer. If he doesnt take it offer 22. 50. And he still doesnt take it, offer 25. So ulysses goes to the farmer and says my father says i should offer 20 and if you dont take it i can offer 22. 50 and if you dont take that i will offer 25. So there was a learning curve. Unscrupulous people began to spot grant a mile away. In the socalled whiskey freeing scandal, brewers were updating this tax by paying off revenue agents. One of the people involved was grants chief of staff. When babcock is being investigated, grant writes a letter to babcocks wife saying, i have full faith in your husbands integrity. Ive had the most intimate and confidential relations with your husband for 14 years. He says i cant believe that hes not a trustworthy person that i imagine. Guess what . He was. He was kind of like chief of staff. At the desk right outside grants office. He would review incoming and outgoing mail. Grant fired him or reassigned him. He became inspector of lighthouses on the florida coast. Grant goes on a trip around the world with his wife for 2 and a half years. How was he received on this trip . During that almost and a half year period, he meets with virtually every head of state in the world. Queen victoria. Windsor castle. Prince of bismarck. Berlin. The pope at the vatican. Alexander ii and st. Petersburg. Then he goes to the far east and the crowds are immense. Like 250,000 people at a time would turn out. The emperor of japan would never actually touch people. When he saw grant, he stepped over and shook hands with grant which was unheard of. Grant actually pioneers a certain post president ial role that would be followed by other president s. He arbitrated a dispute over offshore islands between japan and china. So he comes back with really this sort of great reputation. Very much enhanced. Hes become a statesman on the world stage. Its amazing. After trying to get the nomination again in 1880, not winning it. He decides to move to new york city and try his hand in the investment world. How does that go . Well again with money, disastrously. He formed a partnership with a young man named Ferdinand Ward was 21 years old. They created a partnership called grant and ward. It was only time grant allowed his name to be used in a business. Grants name attracted a lot of money. For those who dont know this story, ferdinand was the Bernie Madoff of his day. It was a ponzi scheme. He was using money from new investors to pay things. Grant imagined he was a multimillionaire and he wakes up one day to find out that instead of being a multimillionaire. He is worth 80 and julia is worth 130. Not only had his fortune been wiped out, all of his children had invested. He had a lot of cousins, friends. The entire grant family was engulfed in this catastrophe. In 1884, grant falls ill. What was wrong with him and what was the prescribed treatment . The illness coincides with the exposure with Ferdinand Ward. Grant one day, they had a house in long branch, new jersey. Julia serves him a plate of peaches and he bites into one of the peaches and says, ouch. That peach just stung me for some reason. It was the first time he realized there was a problem with his throat. He finally consulted his doctor in new york found a cancerous mass on his throat. And tongue. It was incurable so grant realized this was a terminal illness and he was petrified that when he died, julia would be left destitute. Because they lost all their money. He decided to do something he swore he wouldnt do. He wrote his memoirs. During the last years of his life in excruciating with pain and with his mind being followed by opiates. He wrote a memoir that is considered one of the greatest memoirs of the english language. His publisher was mark twain. In one letter, he writes grant wrote 10,000 words today. It kills me these days to write 5000 words. He couldnt believe grants productivity. This memoir really poured out of him and many people imagine that twain wrote the memoirs. The style is flawless, no man can improve upon them. Why did he die in the city and what was his funeral like . They were living on east 66th street in manhattan. His funeral, i was just thinking about it today because of the john mccain memorial gathering at national cathedral. When grant was buried in new york, he and julia felt very grateful to new york and the city provided this beautiful spot in the new riverside park. Grants funeral spoke to the public very much in the way that john mccains Memorial Service has been speaking to the public. That is, at grants funeral, 1. 5 Million People flooded to new york city. The parade went on for five hours. But grant and his family made a statement. It was a north and south reconciliation. They were major confederate generals. It was part of his reconciliation theme. The Stonewall Jackson brigade from virginia came up and marched in the parade. Black regiments marched in the parade because grant had been instrumental during the civil war in terms of recruiting and training and equipping black soldiers. This was really grants final statement from beyond the grave. I think grant in many ways reminds people of what people can say about john mccain in terms of his patriotism. His bravery. His dedication to public service. The fact that he distinguished himself in civilian service and military service. Reminds us of what oldfashioned patriotism should look like. Last question before we take questions from the audience. As we reconsider grant as you have in this magnificent book, what should we learn from grant and his leadership . I think one reason people have responded. All the other people ive written about, they were sort of built for success. That great drive, energy and focus. Grant didnt. I think people are responding to the book because the highs are as high as any story but the lows are a lot lower. This is a story of light and shadow. A story about a man who suffered repeated failures and setbacks. In fact, i was coming into the room, someone said, i loved your grant book. Its the greatest story about a comeback. Repeated comebacks in his life. Success was the greasy pole and he kept slipping back down and work his way back up. If there are any questions for ron. Wed be happy to take a few. Hello, very good book. Loved it. Just want to ask you a quick comment on grants relationship with George Armstrong custer and how you described that relationship in the book. It was a very troubled relationship. Grant was very critical of custer and blamed him for the massacre at little big horn. Said he was not following orders and put himself and his men in harms way. Custer had also been an outspoken critic of grant as president. That certainly helped to fuel the animosity. Im going to read two questions by becky. If grant had gone by his first name, would anything be different . Secondly, what is happening with the adaptation . I know someone bought the rights. Grants name, he was born ulysses grant. Which gave him the unfortunate initials as hug. He was mercilessly teased and became just plain ulysses. Then when a local congressman nominated him from west point, he bungled the name and send it as ulysses s. Grant. His own wife didnt know what the s stood for. Rollback this funny letter and says the s stands for absolutely nothing. Its not going to be a hiphop musical. [laughter] but it will be a feature film and it will be directed by Steven Spielberg which is very exciting. [applause] produced by Leonardo Dicaprio which is also exciting. Looks like i will again be the historical consultant. [applause] youve written about washington and hamilton and now grant. Are there any lessons youve learned through studying these that you think is worth sharing . Its a very good question, one strange thing when people have asked me about a common denominator to these lives. With every person ive written about, they had to cope at an early age with a difficult and even impossible parents. I know that sound like a strange response to your question. There was the washington with a very selfcentered mother. Hamilton with the absentee father. Grant with the overbearing father. Theres something about a parent that shapes character and forces people to be selfreliant at an early age. All of the people ive written about because they had such difficult parents, they never talked about it. Sometimes i imagine if i could conjure them to life and ask questions, i think id want to zero in on the family dynamics. Did they plan on catching him. For the ponzi screams. Did they play any part in catching him . Did he help catch. Im know that he had, but what happened ground was inexcusably complacent, that Ferdinand Ward put all the securities in the safe, that only Ferdinand Ward had access to. Grant shouldve never allowed that he would sign letters, in front of granted he would sign it without reading the letters. He felt because theres a lot of sophisticated wall street people, who were investing with ward, that he was absolutely certain that ward must be sound. He should have been suspicious because some of the people who are getting like, 15 or 20 per month, that doesnt raise warning flags, in a right there. But i wish i could tell you that grant had within part of exposing ward, but that wasnt the case. And what happened the bank that was lending ward money, went bust and then the whole scheme blew up. We have time for one more question. Someone whose legacy, has been unjustly tarnished what we have is it feel to do this book on grant. When i published a book on grant, i felt that he was suffering from this image that he was just this cruel, butcher and thats why he was a successful general. And in fact, there were six Union Generals who fought against robert e. Lee before grant with the same advantage of man power material, that they could not defeat you know lee but grant could. And grants presidency, has been betrayed as a failed presidency, but i felt in many ways he was a successful president , in protecting south america what interpreter it had a revisionist bent and people actually accepted the portrait of grant more readily than i thought would happen so im happy for that. Although it was a little surprised. Please join me in thanking mr. We ron churnow. I i coming up next on the presidency is his First Press Conference nine days after taking the oath of office on january 20th 1981. Questions about the recently resolved iranian hostage crashed this after its aftermath, the discussion that range from Domestic Affairs to the new administrations foreign policy. President reagan met with