Because he is older than i. And he says it is true. My grandfather had 500 invested in the stock market. And of course he lost it. This is when people were jumping out the window and so forth. And my grandparents were teachers. I think he taught languages and music. I dont know what my grandmother taught. But they moved from virginia to philadelphia. And that started the family, split the family, because my grandparents could get a job. They said they didnt hire black teachers in philly. They had black children going to integrated schools, but no black teachers. So, my grandmother took in washing an washing, and my grandfather refused to do that type work. And the family actually split. They were together physically but not together. The older kids went to college in the family, and they were teachers. The two oldest ones. The youngest kid was sent to school by the middle children who are did not go to children. They had to work to help pay. So, here we go about the color line thing. I was born in d. C. My mother was born in virginia. My dad was born in maryland. And when i was three oh, my parents divorced when i was a baby. And my dad took the boy. My mother took the girl. And remarried, moved to San Francisco. So, from the age of three on, i grew up in San Francisco. Then she remarried again and moved to san diego. And i ended up at Virginia Union, which one of my great great grandparents was on the board at virginia seminary. And it was great to know that my great great grandparent had helped to start the school. Right, right. So, if we talk a little bit more about your childhood growing up on the west coast before you went to experience virginia, what were the sort of racial dynamics of life in both southern and also Northern California . Okay. Growing up in San Francisco, i lived in what is now called the west end. It was called fillmore back in those days. You know, and i tried to think. Was it full of black people . I think as a child, you probably dont even know. And i guess thats where the black people lived. Then we moved to the presidio. And school was all white. I was the only black child. Every day i would pray i hope a nun doesnt slap me this morning. She would walk down and slap me. I would pray to god, god, ive done something wrong, please help me. I didnt know what i had done wrong. Never did. And i used to get fs. All my papers were fs. And i was in the second grade or third grade. And my mother said, you need to bring your papers home. And i started crying. She said, whats wrong . I said, mom, im dumb. I get all fs. Shes said, thats okay, bring them home anyway. She collected these many papers, about an inch, said why are these marked wrong . I didnt know i was bright. And the nun started crying. And mom said, go outside and play. I said, mom, im not allowed to play. I have to go to church during recess and lunch. And my mother says, i think you better go outside. I dont know what she said to the nun, but after that, the smartest guy a smartest girl and class and i were vying for grades. And she stopped slapping me. So, i went to a Public School first called presidio. A little boy said he couldnt hold my hand. I knew it was something bad because he couldnt hold my hand. That was probably the first time you had heard that term. Yeah, yeah. That was my experience there. I had heard of other experiences. I remember we owned the mom and pops grocery store, which is typical in San Francisco. You know, they have safeway. But generally you have little stores. And a man came in, and my parents never talked in front of me, but i heard them whispering that hes a teacher but he can only subcistitute because he haa dishonorable discharge because he jumped off a ship refusing to fight saying why should he fight for america freeing other countries when hes not free here. I remember them saying that. And then i remember my mother trying to get a job. And they told her you join the union first, and you can get the job. The union says get the job first and vice versa. This went on. And i remember my mother crying. But not in front of us. But i do remember. So, little things, subtle things, you know. Right. You know, santa monica had a big rope across their beach. Yeah. Yeah. Unofficially. Right. But its there. Right. Yeah. Teaching jobs. Only teach in the black area. You know, i mean, it was there. Its still there. So, when had your parents at all prepared you for what it would be like as you got ready to go across the country . Heck no. Nobody could prepare you. Do you know the first thing i did when i got in town . I sat down at the soda fountain. I said, gee, i want a banana split. Ill never forget this. One strawberry and one vanilla. If you dont have black walnut, please put another strawberry, no chocolate, and strawberry syrup on top and whip cream. The lady came back and said, we cant serve you. I said, oh, are you out . She says, no. I said, oh i remember saying, oh oh. I said, oh, three times. It shocked me. I couldnt get a banana split because im black sitting at the counter. I wasnt thinking. I knew you couldnt, but i wasnt thinking. I just sat down. Had you had experiences like that in california . They are overt, not covert. Well, i had been asked, when i went to high school, my cousin was filipino. She says please come with me to the picnic. I said im not filipino. You are. She says come with me, so i went, and i took my date. When we got to the place outside of San Francisco, the guy sat on the gate. I have to let you are. Are you sure you want to come . So, i have that type thing or places in you people can come in, do you think youre going to be happy . Interesting. Kind of coded. Yeah. Or presented in a different way. Right, right. May i ask why you decided to go to a black traditionally black yeah, my mother thought it would be good for me, yeah. But, you know, i think a black i think i should have gone to howard dont get me wrong. Virginia union was great. But i should have been in the city because it was too much learning at one time being in the south and the mentality. So, what was that like . You talked about the ice cream parlor, but what was the indoctrination like . Well, i didnt like anybody, the black people and the white people. It was first of all, i was young, and i thought i knew everything and i didnt. I didnt know anything. This is what year . In the 50s. 59, around then. But as a young person, youre very ignorant, but you dont know it. And i i thought i knew everything. And when i went there, i couldnt understand why the white people treated the blacks the way they were treated and why the blacks allowed it. I even got angry with some of the black people for not sitting in, the kids. And i didnt understand. I do now. If they had sat in, they wouldnt have had dinner on the table that night because their parents would have been fired. I had no idea, you know . So, what was Virginia Union like in terms of a consciousness, a black consciousness . Or even were the teachers that were talking about these issues . Yeah, i you know, i believe people it was a way of life, and they knew how to live within the system. Im not saying it was comfortable for them, but i think they had a black society, which was a way of living, you know . I remember dr. Johnson, who was my favorite instructor there, bob johnson. He had two phds, i think. I think he got his first when he was 18. Im not sure. Very bright man. He used to play in a quartet. I dont know what he played, violin or something. He said, one night he was driving home he used to tell jokes in class. He had this white woman in the car, and then he thought, oh, my god, im going to be killed. He was always saying things like that. I dont know. I dont remember. Im so old i dont remember. So, im going to be asking questions about this. Sort of curious what prefigured those, what kind of conversations you may have been having among yourselves as students. We were having meetings. As you know tony whats his name . Tony pinkett, i think were the leaders, and we were always having meetings. Can you remember what some of those meetings were like . No, i cant, no. Im telling you, being old is a son of a gun. I thought the world was going to change though. I was so naive. Gosh. The policemen was very nice to me. I remember when we were arrested, he held my hand and helped me up into the paddy gough won. My aunt called me, she said, i seen you on the news. You were being helped into the paddy wagon. You mentioned there were sol students who didnt participate, you were angry. I was angry with them. I felt they lived in virginia, they should. I met a woman at the 50 year reyr reunion well, they were at the sitin, so, i knew her. They needed pictures. I havent seen these people in 50 years. We were sitting at the table and tears were coming down her eyes. I felt like crying too, but i dont cry in front of people. She said her father was fired, she had to move out of state, she had to had to drop out of college. Thats how naive i was. I wanted all of them to be there. But i didnt live in virginia. My parents were in california. So, you talk about thinking youre going to change the world. What did you want to change . Well, i thought i know that were not all going to be hunkydory, but i thought its going to be integration now. Its not going to the first thing i remember when we got arrested, we went to a courthouse. I mean im sorry, went to jail. They put us in this cell, all of us. And it was smelly. I thought not even a clean cell can you go in. And then in the court, the court was segregated. I felt like, am i in hell . What has happened . Even the courts are segregated . And then i remember a black man came in, and he was a drunkard, and you could smell him. And i thought, why do the drudges have to come in . Im thinking, just, its going downhill fast. And i thought am i losing my mind . Horrible. Yeah. But i just thought, okay, now that weve sat in, were going to have these attorneys and were going to go to court and everything is going to be right and its not going to be any longer. But you can change laws, but you cant change people wh. It comes about through your doing individually. And thats what kind of process is that do you think . What do you think . You know, i think the young kids today, many of them didnt grow up during that era, thank god. And many of them, if you get angry with anyone, its angry not because of of a persons color. Its for some other reason. And i think thats great. Many of the kids are that way today, yeah. I mean, you still have youre going to always have an upper dog and a lower dog. How long were you in college before it started . I dont remember. Youre asking me difficult questions. This is just the preexam. Im sorry. Really i dont remember. In fact, i was surprised that it was so important. Well, this would have been so the Virginia Union students was about three weeks after the one in greensboro, north carolina, nebraska 1st. So, it would have been one of the early ones. Do you know if you were aware of other sitins . Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did this come up as a strategy . I dont honest to pete, i really dont remember. Yeah. But you were aware. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. How about the notion of nonviolence and how you were going to comport yourselves in what could potentially be dangerous . Yeah, i was going to be a nonviolent person. Im not a violent person anyway, just my mouth unfortunately. Yeah. I thought its not fair to have people hit you and you cant really protect yourself. Its really not fair. I think had i been a man, i probably would have been angry and retaliated. I dont know that. But maybe. Yeah. And were there no, no, no, no, no. Did you run into trouble at sitins . The dogs and things acti, bu was fine. It was fine. When i say it was fine, our sitins were calm compared to other sitins in other states. What actually happened . We went downtown for several days. We went to tall himers Department Store and sat down i didnt sit down. I was standing. Being so tall, they pointed me out, really and truly because i stand out. And i had on high heel shoes too, so that made me over 6 feet tall. And they just wouldnt serve us. I mean, it was relatively calm compared to what ive seen on the news and talked with other people. How many students were involved . 34. And you were you arrested right away or did it take we walked. The first time we werent. The second time we were. We talked from school to downtown. It was i hate to say this a jovial mood. A lot of kids walking together. I guess were all going to change the world. I dont know how they felt. But thats the attitude that i had and the feeling that i got. Right, right. Were there songs being sung or anything like that . Yeah, yeah. Dont ask me the names though. Not only that, i had to learn black culture. Not that i you know, hi i hao learn the black songs. Growing up a catholic which im no longer. Growing up a catholic, you dont know those songs. I had never heard the black National Anthem in my life. A lot of things i had to learn. Adam powell was a big man. He and my uncle worked together too. And he came to town to talk. And i went to one of his meetings, civil rights meetings. And in the church, the people clapped and they banged their feet like this and it scared me because i had i dont want this on the thing. I had never been in a whole group of black people. And can you imagine im black and im scared . I mean, that doesnt make good sense, you know this. But you had never experienced this before. No, no. So, you said earlier that when you first got to virginia and theres a sort of not the black people not liking the white people. Did this change for you as it went on . Yeah, i got a better understanding of what was happening, you know . The black people had to live there and the white people were only going along with the status quo. And i yeah, i knew i was getting the hell out of there. As soon as you could. Yeah, as soon as i could. Yeah. Why was that . Because i didnt like virginia. And i shouldnt say that on camera because virginia has many fine qualities. I have to put that in there. I was too immature to really appreciate what was happening. I was too immature, yeah. Did you ever experience other parts of the south and the deep south . No, no. That was enough. That was . Yeah, yeah. Im jumping around a little bit, but i want to follow this question. When you finished virginia, you graduated. And then where did you go from there . Schoolwise or citiwise . You just said you wanted to get the hell out. I went to d. C. My dad lived in d. C. I had a little boyfriend well, young man, boyfriend. My mom kept saying come back to california. I said when i go back, im not going back to san diego. Its too country. San diego was flat. I said im going home to San Francisco. She says, claudette, please come back. She says, ill tell you what, ill pay your way back and if you dont like it, you can go back to d. C. Or San Francisco. Well, i came back and started partying. Im a kid. Im partying. Then i got a job, so i was stuck there for two years, another city i didnt like. Then i moved to. Wi l. A. Because im partying in l. A. I had friends there. This is summertime. I love dancing. I thought ill dance all summer, go to all these parties, then go up to San Francisco and get a job. I never did because i waited too late. Go i got stuck in l. A. And thats where you stayed. Yep. What did you end up doing for work . My last job was assembly build 922 which is an expulsion counselor for the School District. Did you work for the schools most of your career . Yeah, well, i taught people working for masters. You know i have a doctorate in human behavior. So, i taught graduate students career psychology at cal lutheran and st. Marys. That was nighttime at ucaa and san diego. Back to california. Yeah, my master at usc. Im a california person. Yeah. Yeah. So, what i do want to ask more details about the sitins, but lets stay in california. Okay. What did that experience that you went through there both as a student and just experiencing that side of jim crow that was kind of different from maybe you were raised . And then going through the sitins there and off that and coming back, what did you take away from that . What did you bring back to california from that experience . That the wheels of justice turn slowly, really and truly, its slowly. You know, and i often thought would i do it again . Yeah, i would do it again. I would do it again, yeah. It did hurt me, jobwise. I went for a job in d. C. , and the guy said, i have to hire you, but because you made a high score on the exam, but i dont think you would be happy here. He says, i see youve been involved in civil rights because i always put down that i have an arrest record. And then for lausd, i took the written exam. I took the exam ten times, never flunked the written. They flunked me on the training experience. So, i was working for the County School district before i came to lausd. I asked him, he liked me a person, i said, can you find out why they wont hire me in l. A. He did, he said you have an arrest record for sitins and they think youre going to be a problem. I finally got in because some mistakenly sent me a contract. I think it was a guardian angle. I really do. I think it was someone saw what was happening. Im just guessing, maybe a black secretary and sent the paper out. So, its there. You want to talk more about the sitins and i guess i dont talk a lot about it because i think in my i think ive suppressed that. It was uncomfortable. Very unkmcomfortable. And it hurts to this day. What is about it . Because it it hurts because many peoples attitude have not changed, you know, on both sides. And also, when i see these black kids not going to school, it hurts me to my heart. Not voting. Dont they realize they need an education. They have to vote. And many of them are not doing it, and i want to cry. I really want to cry. And you told me before we started that thinking back to these times made you feel very emotional. I was wondering what exactly you were thinking about. Yeah, the whole thing in life, the way the situation is today. And also with obama being president , many feelings have come to surface. Many of what other people have come to surface in a negative fashion, and i dont like that. You know, the screaming out during sessions, calling him names, comparing him thoo hitle and so forth. And i do know you always need a top dog. I understand that. And it will be. If we get rid of race, itll be size, height. Itll be something, color of eyes. When my brother came back from switzerland he was the man behind kissinger and the geneva conference. He came back, and he says, claudette, you know, he says, this stuff is b. S. I said what . He says, the racial stuff. He says, we have World Problems. He was really upset. He says, we have World Problems to contend with. Interesting. Yeah. So, you come from a family of serious achievers it sounds like. Yeah, i do. Was the emphasis on education . Yeah. Why is it . Any insight into that . No, not at all, not at all. No, no. Im glad i did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Your work in the School District and as a counselor, were there racial issues that came up . Yeah, in fact i was so angry i wrote a letter, threepage typewritten, computerwritten letter. I say its not racial, but it was. We did expulsions were kids who brought knives, guns, drugs and so forth. We had a hearing. And if we found this to be so, then we told you you were straight expelled or suspended expelled which meant youre either kicked out of the School District or you go to a special school. We had a kid who, without any names, of course, who was involved and very involved in drugs. But because his parents had money, he was white, they didnt kick him out. And i was so angry. And i was one of three on the committee. And i told the other two committee people, who are white, i said, you know, hes guilty. And they said, well, hes going to go to college. I said, so . Well, we judge it on a casebycase i said, dont feel that to me. Lets thats like saying, oh, youre so good, you can do that. I said, dont do that to me. I said, the kid is guilty. So, i wrote a letter saying the inner city kids who are not going to go to college who do the same thing or not as much will be expelled, yeah. So, its there. So, insidious, yeah. How duid you feel when obama wa elected . I was elated because he was intelligent, not because he was only black. I have to put black too. Because he was knowledgeable and i felt he was going to do the best he could for everyone, not just black people, everyone. You cant have someone doing for one group and not the whole. Were you working with the School District during the bussing period in los angeles . Yeah. In fact i was on one of the committees. I asked a question, i said, why are you only bussing the black kids. The person who was in charge said, did you hear what i said . He shut me up. He says, did you hear what i said . Right now were bussing the black kids, and that was it and he talked over me. And that was it . Yeah. And thats how it happened. Absolutely i remember that. Yeah. Theyre the ones who had to get up early, come home late, yeah. Drive far. I know where i lived in l. A. , i lived in view park which had the number one Elementary School academically in my area because the people who lived in my area were educators, doctors, lawyers, black people mostly. And our school was top. My kids went to private school, went to the french school. But anyway, they bussed the kids from the school and no parent would put a kid on the bus. They said, why should we bus our kids . Our kids have had integrated experiences. Theyve gone to stores. They dont need to go to a white school. What the School District did was take out every other grade, so you had to bus your kid away. Right, yeah. Yeah. Was that one of the reasons why you sent your kids to private school . No. I just did. I sent them to the french school. I just did, yeah. Yeah. They ended up at Public School eventually. Oh, they did . Yeah. Which school . Thats where my sister went. Oh yeah . And had an okay experience there . Yeah. Okay. My kids dont see things the way i see things anyway. I mean, they have experience my son used to be Vice President of fritolay of dr. Pepper in marketing. And before that he was with fritolay in marketing. And i dont want to say anything about different corporations, i dont i wont naum the corporation, but he hit a Glass Ceiling also, which, you know, yeah. Did you talk as you were raising your own children, did you talk to them about the experiences that you had had . I did not no. You know, my mother didnt tell me she would show me these history books and i would see and read in the history books, but she didnt want to prejudice me against people, which i can appreciate, and i didnt want to do that to my children either. I know i took them out of school i stayed home that day. On Martin Luther kings birthday, i would take them to the museum. That was the big black thing we did, i guess. Before it was a national holiday, yeah. Right. What about getting positive inferences of black people in schools and things like that, was that happening for your children . You know, i dont think any more than i got. Okay. Yeah. Because i i dont think so. No. I was on the Book Committee with lausd, and i said why is this stage with the black person on it at the end of the chapter. And it was flynn. And they said because when we went the books down south, we tear that page out or we dont include that page. I said, but ive read the chapter and it has nothing to do with the chapter. I said, you just stuck a black person in there to sell your book. You said the project youre working on is civil rights. Im just curious what is civil rights what is the Civil Rights Movement to you . I know it can be defined in different ways. And im sort of interested, being the experiences that youve had, whether you see yourself as part of it. Is it still going on . What is the Civil Rights Movement . I think today, the kids the kids are not especially in l. A. , theyre not concerned about civil rights. Its la la land. You know, what shoes do you have on . Whathave on . What purse what brand name . Whether you can wrap, play ball or play basketball, for football. Jewelry or car. Its a different story and thats black white green or yellow. You know regardless of the race. Theyre very involved in superficial things that wont last i dont think. To maybe you know i moved up here and i kept my house in l. A. In case they burned, they meaning white people, burn across a milan. A moving. Im too old to fight now you know . Im moving and of course they did not. They, white people did. Not he thought that a month that might happen . Yes because i have read in the papers that a black kid in school had the nword printed on her locker. Not too long . Ago just before we moved up. That was not too long ago, weve been here nine years. Yeah. And did that surprise, so hearing about it over insider of racism to that surprise you . No it didnt surprise me. I didnt expect it but it did not surprise me. We talked about this a little bit off camera when if you could tell me whats what is it like in a time like this for an african american. I guess its like like definitely what even for a white. Person its a small town closes up when the sun goes down. Has one block of downtowns that are very. As one block a boutiques in a very expensive and a lot of little restaurant. And has a theater that gets first class movies because of all the directors that live here. It has to live theaters. The one theater the local people play in and the other one i dont know who does and i. I go to l. A. The clubs, you can go into a club and take your child and a dog. Theres one club next to the movie. Its a nice little place you know. Its nice, its nice. There are walking trails and horse trails. And the helicopters are not ghetto captors. They are private helicopters. Theres one thing i have to say, it would just in los angeles, i havent been in los angeles in 20 years. There was Something Else to see the helicopters in the sky i forgot about. That thats right. I knew how to work the projects. If i had to go around, i knew of the catholic officers were overhead, if its too late in the day, you dont go in. Did you, a new job did you do home visits . Not as an expulsion counselor but before that i was making home calls as a job in another counselor. Psa peoples in a tent. I dont know how many jobs under psa. I would make home calls but you learn how to make home calls and you know . He learned, you know on mothers day, when people get their welfare checks dont go and. Different days in things you know . What happened on welfare check day . The people werent gonna be home, theyre busy. So do you think, again yes cause i know thats what you. Don what do you think we are now, how do you feel where we are . I thought about that. What do they say the more things change the more they stay the same. I think things, we have code words now you know . Its like living in california its covert. So excuse me. But my neighbor when we go out to eat, but going out next monday the four of us. When i moved in here, my neighbor sent me a pie which i thought was very nice and another neighbor gamy some fruit. Anyway my neighbor said im from some Southern State and she said it again to let me know i think that hey, im ok im human being you know. Because she told me that. I didnt answer your question and i have pondered that question, where are we today . The black kids dont have to go into education, social work, ministry, whatever the jobs were that we could get. If you notice you ask an allperson like me, im 73, what did you do . Theyre all in education because thats the only thing we could do. All the black men were at the post office with degrees. Today, you can get another jobs fortunately. I dont know how high are going what you can get other jobs. So let me ask about youre grads to experience. Whether other women in your program usc didnt have many blacks but there were other blocks. U. S. I you had a few, a few, not many you know. The experience was fine, i didnt feel any racism at all. From that experience you had in virginia, did you didnt ever come back to the growing experience it all draw on. It drawn in which . Way i dont, just leave it open to you. Weather times that came back to you or that you took something from that experience that may have influenced what you did . I think it opened me to be more respectful in my mind of people, of different cultures. I call richmond a different culture. To be respectful and to appreciate differences. We all cant be alike. To appreciate where i am at the moment. At that time i was this is like oh my god i cant stand, Richmond Hill im judging. They werent backwards, i was backwards. They were fine. What was going like going back to the reunion . Richmond hasnt changed, it looks the same to me. Yet they say it has. I dont know. When i saw downtown, i said oh my god this place is the same. I like visiting but im not gonna live in california im sure theyre glad im here. Would you have sent your own children to black colleges . My son went to union but he didnt like. And he said mom i cant take. It is to country. But he did go to morehouse for undergrad. Then that school in carolina i told you about for a grad. Was that going to Historical Black College something that . I wanted both my children to. Go but as i told you my daughter was only 15 when she started. She was too young. And my son, i think was 16 or 17, two young. But he was ready. She said she was too immature but she knew she was. So she wasnt . Sure. Right, right. What did i take out of it . As i said, i really had my eyes opened when i went to the 50th year union for the sitting people. I had thought about it to about how i was so judgmental. I remember an old black lady saying to me, honey why are you guys marching for this . You need to march for better jobs. And i thought you silly old lady, she must be in every bit of 50. Why are you asking me the silly question . I didnt say that to her but i was thinking that. Or were not ready at. When are you gonna be ready . So really you are involved in the very early sit in and not too long after that . I graduated in 60. To soak up a more years. Yeah. Did you follow what was happening back in richmond or other parts of the south . Oh yeah, definitely. In fact, i was here not quite the citizens, but the march in washington i was here. I told my husband, gia want to go to the march on washington. I really did. And my brother would keep me informed. He says clad it, today people are meeting at the white house and planning strategy with kennedy. I said youre kidding. He said yeah. You remember your reactions to the legislation that was passed Civil Rights Act . I was extremely happy. Of course, doesnt make much to make me happy. laughs how does that relate to what we were saying before about maybe can change rules a candy cane cant change hearts and lives. What do you think those acts were important . Well you know, as i said first of all you have to educate people and maybe hopefully through education people will change their way of thinking. Maybe people will get out to vote, i keep saying they. The party said me black or white. Put stumbling blocks in the way. Hopefully. You have so many people that dont care. I say what difference does my vote make . Its not gonna change anything anyway. The situation just last few dayss looks like the Civil Rights Act might be challenged. Whats your reaction to that . Good, lets take it all the way up to see what happens. Its fine. As my uncle and my aunt said lets have a good old fight. My answer nautical loved good knocking down fights legally. Yeah. That brings my next question. How did your family act about your involvement . Like all my uncle and he used to call me screwball. He said screwball, talk to martin, that was the eternal turley handling it. And i talk to attorney martin. I said my uncle told me to talk to you. He said whos youre on . Call. He said all i know him. Is if you take care of me. I feel very gideon happy about the sentence. It was depressing, the whole thing about being paddywagon, it was not clean. And then being in a jail was not clean, and then the courtroom was segregated and it was smelly and the guy who came in was nasty and smelling. I just thought im losing my mind. This is hell. I did know what hell was at that time. He said youre also . Getty and i was giddy because im changing the world. Its gonna change. Now go to court, its gonna change. Were all gonna be happy, as black people are gonna stand up in the white people are gonna be okay. I mean were not all gonna sit down and eat ice cream together but at least you can respect that i can sit down here. So you got the support of your . Uncle oh yes and my aunt. My and called me from new york. There were others the refill fearful for . You know. Nobody. My mother, my stepfather, nobody know. So what was the reaction you got . They were very happy. My uncle says claudette, things are not gonna change as fast as you think it takes time. Takes time. Did you believe him . Yes, because i knew that he was doing that in norfolk. I believed him. Do you feel that the family that he came from prepared you for what you got involved in some ways . Im sure without knowing it he give your children their values. Covertly and overtly. In fact, my mother always said the squeaky wheel gets the attention weathers batter good so i guess i was a squeaky wheel. And you stayed in touch with people from virginia . You went to the reunion. No only charles. Only charles assignment tv, during black history month. And i said thats charles. And i went online and found him. As youve been aware what has he been doing all these years . Now. He was my boyfriend. Now come up. He was a baptist minister in it and at that time i was a subtle catholic. I went to Catholic Church enrichment and i knelt down and everyone came in their pew and they looked over and saw me and got up and left. I said now my faith is not that good to start off with and youre not helping any im thinking. People are gonna hate me when i say this cause im spiritual now whatever that means. So i told the press after mass. I said, you know white people came in to the pew where i was and they looked over and saw me and they got up and left. Then all lady came and there is no place to sit and she came late and she saw me she knelt and she saw me and she got up and left. He said much older childlike and a pray for. Im not going to church anymore, you have to pray for them, you cant tell them . During a mass. As i said, my faith wasnt too strong anyways so it didnt take much for it to go away. So that was Young Charles . He was nice. I would go with him when he preached. He had to do an intern preaching at these country churches. You say darn you catholic girl. Used to call me a catholic girl. When i say boyfriend, girlfriend we werent tight, tight tight but we were boyfriend girlfriend. Have you seen impeaching like that before . Yes, i went with my girlfriend and San Francisco to whatever churches. But they were emotional. But they did sing songs. Songs with a b to it. What i like that now. Well. Now you can get it on youtube. Do you have any questions . No youve covered quite a lot of ground. Im sorry, my memory is really bad. Im so sorry. It was a very emotional time. What was the made sort emotional . I felt like i wanted to cry because when i think of what i said is happened in the past and what has happened now, im not too sure that weve were too far from the past and now. I went online to see the insults were hurled at obama and i had to stop because there were so very many of them. All of them are right up in his face. I thought why . I used to think the poor the person was, the more you they would hurl insults. Thats not true. It can have ten phds and do the same thing. As i said, i wanted to cry about my black children not voting. White kids dont fly too unfortunately. Not going to school. Drugs are rampant. Oh hi has a big drug problem. What are we doing . What are we raring today . Where we go . And youre not alone in those feelings. Yeah. Yeah. I dont know. Obviously, were doing this project worse in some ways celebrating but were also taking stock at the time to reflect. Not only whats done in this 1960 to where we are. Sometimes i dont want to reflect. Because its uncomfortable. I told my husband, no im not filling this paper up before i go to bed because it wont be able to sleep. When i put my uncle down and i had down thinking about the things they were involved in and so forth. What is it you think about how they respond . No i know what they went through. I did tell you, my aunt integrated a Greyhound Bus line that the courts is already said should be not separate but equal together. And they did not integrated. I was in virginia and my aunt told my mother who is visiting, she told my aunt and another sister, come on were gonna go to d. C. From virginia. Were going by bus. My mother says why . Lets drive. My aunt said we are going by bus. Mama says we dont take the gray have. Anyway they took the greyhound and my aunt got off and she says you keep going to d. C. , call hugo thats my uncle. And call adam plane powell because im going to get arrested and she did. Because she sat in the white section. But the courts made them obey the law. I was something that surprised me about the movement was how much once the law was in effect how much testing of the law had to be done all over the country. Right. In fact something was on the news recently about some southern town, im not sure what it was. Did you see what was i missed . Now but i know even here in california. I know not to go in some cities. Because you know what kinds of things do you think what happened . Well for example, i was going to a city and i dont want to name the city and i passed a little place, Canyon Country down that way. And i got lost before i had a gps. And my daughter was with me and i said we cant stop that little club down there. It looks like a little redneck club. Do you know what im talking about . She says mom, i know. I dont know if she knew. She said she knew. Because you can feel it enough. Thats something in some ways hasnt changed. Im sure you can sense those places through of here and when you intellectualize, it uganda trouble. You have to feel it in your garden go with yoga. You can decide a lot of things intellectually but the feelings are another whole thing. And as to four man period in everything he does regardless of race. Something like that you rely in community to get through that. Otherwise its difficult in a place like ohio where the community is not a large. No but i felt it in ohio but i moved on. You dont have to like me thats fine. Do you remember when they had a green book for black people for aaa . No idea. Oh youre too young. Whats . That when you travel, we were little, i was little. Our parents used to go to triple a. You know how they draw the map for you. Well they had a special book for black people, where you could stay. Because when we traveled, my parents would sometimes stop a black persons house, and say do you know where black people can stay when we travel down south. Mrs. Jones has a room they would say. And we will go there and stay overnight. So those are the kind of things to people cant even imagine now. There people who are grownups they have no idea now. Thats true. It says a lot about essentially how people adapt and take care of each other to. That you could stop someones house and they would put you up and mrs. Jones did put up travelers. On the flip side, integration closed many black peoples businesses. Id like bakes had a place in upper new york, you can think of what is called, people bacchus know it. I heard that the black people used to go there and stay overnight and have a good time and a closed when integration happened. Many the block hotels and other places closed. Other other things he think the black community lost through integration . I think some of the bloc kids dont know who they are whatever that means who they are. My girlfriend is married to a mexican fellow and her kids told her mom, oh you just think that because youre black, you know they dont know anything about her really. They dont adapt identify. Right. We hear a lot of stories that in some ways stories in the style gia for black schools the good old days. Cellblocks schools. Right you know speaking of black, i have written the l. A. Times and various other newspapers about not capitalizing and were black. And i spotted out why it should be. White is generic, black is not. When you say black you only mean an american from africa. You dont mean a jamaican, you dont mean puerto rican, you only name a person in america who is black. It should be capitalized. I feel that it is an insult when you see in the papers different groups of people and then a lower case letters for block. I agree. Also in the package i have a letter that i wrote to this local paper and im surprised they printed it. They talked about two black women doing something fraudulent and should you see them call the police. So i wrote them a long letter. I said you named two black women. You have made it dangerous for me to walk downtown. No description. Its in that back yeah. Have you ridden any other letters to the editor or over the years over issues like. That all about the black issue have a return to the l. A. Times. Im always writing letters, well but i write good letters to to compliment people when they should be. I felt. Excuse me i fell i was writing my bicycle is turning a corner too fast i did not my bicycle anna and my aunt on the fire hydrant. And im done theyre crying and i look uglier than ugly when i cry. And two men got out of the truck consider yoke . And i said now know my head hurts. And then i said all god youre looking ugly or so, stop trying so. I stopped right. But they were two white men helping a black lady or two men helping a female for that matter. So i havent felt anything in a while. As i said, if i feel anything i move on. Wrapping up here, do you think about what you did at Virginia Union and being part of those protests as something very historic being a participant. I do now. At the time it didnt think it was i just thought it was something we were doing. I was one of many people across the country but i didnt realize it until afterwards. I didnt realize it until i was at a school and i was in the library and the lady says doctor grenell, do you know anything about the Civil Rights Movement. And said yes i do. I was in it. She said you were . As it does not a big deal but then i realized, shes a young teacher. Thats when it hit me, i guess it was a big deal. Yeah. Weeknights this month were featuring American History tv as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan tv. Tonight look at the Civil Rights Movement. A september 2nd, 1963, nbc news broadcast three hour program on the status of the Civil Rights Movement called the American Revolution of 63. Reporting from 75 locations throughout the united states, and includes appearances by wellknown activists, scenes from historic civil rights events and comments from integration opponents. What tonight being in beginning at eight eastern. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan three. Up next, former california governor ron reagan accepts his president ial nomination at the 1980 republican Optional Convention in detroit. Ronald reagan defeated incumbents president jimmy carter in the upcoming election. Thank you very much
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