She talked about the Culture Shock she experienced as a californian attending school in virginia. Civil rightsof a history project initiated by congress in 2009, conducted by this missoni and museum of africanamerican history and culture, the american full life , andr Folk Life Center the university of North Carolina chapel hill. i will go back to my grandparents, if i may, because in a way, it was a civil rightstype activity. My grandfather these are stories that were told to me, and i asked my cousin about it because he is older than i, and he says it is true. My grandfather had 500 invested in the stock market, and of course, he lost it. This is when people were jumping out the window and so forth. My grandparents were teachers. I think he taught languages and music, and i dont know what my grandmother taught, but they moved from virginia to philadelphia. That started the family split the family because my grandparents couldnt get a job. They said they did not hire black teachers in philly. They had black children going to schools, but no black teachers. My grandmother took in washing, and my grandfather refused to do that type work. The family actually split. They were together physically, but not together. The older kids went to college they wereily, and teachers, the two oldest ones. The youngest kid was sent to school by the middle children, who did not go to college. They had to work to help pay. Go about the color line thing. I was born in d. C. My mother was born in virginia. My dad was born in maryland. When i was three, my parents divorced when i was a baby. My dad took the boy. My mother took the girl and remarried, moved to San Francisco. From the age of three on, i grew up in San Francisco. Then she remarried again and moved to san diego. I ended up at virginia union, great,w, which one of my great grandparents was on the board at virginia seminary, and it was great to know that my great, great grandparent had helped to start the school. A little bitd talk more about your childhood ,rowing up on the west coast before you experienced virginia. What was the racial dynamic of life . growing up in San Francisco, i grew up in what is now called the west inch. It was known as fillmore back in those days. Called the west end. Im trying to think was it full of black people . I think probably as a child, you did not even know. I guess thats where the black people lived. Then we moved to the presidio and i went to saint dominics. It was all white. I was the only black child, and every day, i used to pray, i hope a nun doesnt slap me this morning. She would walk down as we were praying and she would slap me. I would pray to god, ive done something wrong. Please help me. I did not know what i had done wrong, never did. And i used to get fs. I was in the second or third grade, and my mother said you need to bring your papers home, and i started crying. She asked what was wrong. I said, im dumb. I get all fs. She said, thats ok. Bring them home anyway. She collected them all, about that many, about an inch and brought them to school and asked why they were marked wrong. I didnt know i was bright. She told me to go outside and play, and i said im not allowed to pray im not allowed to play. I have to go into the church and pray during recess. Ie said to go outside, but dont know what she said to the nun, but after that, the iartest girl in class and were vying for grades. And the nun stopped slapping me. I did not tell my mom she slapped me. I went to a Public School called presidio, and a little boy said a little white boy a little boy said that he could not hold my hand because his mother said he could not hold ers, sorry wentgg home and asked my mom, was i a did not know. I i knew he could not hold my hand. Cliff that was probably the first time you heard the term . i had other experience. We owned a momandpops grocery store, which is typical in San Francisco. They have safeway, but generally, you have little stores. A man came in, and my parents never talked in front of me, but becaused only substitute he had a dishonorable discharge because in world war ii, he jumped off of a ship refusing to fight. He said why should i fight for america when he is not free here . I remember saying that. Mother remember my trying to get a job. Join the her, you union first and you can get the job. Get the job first and vice versa. I remember my mother crying. But not in front of us. It is the little, subtle things. Rope monica had a big across their beach. Unofficially. It is there. Jobs, only teach in the black aria. Black area. It is still there. Had your parents prepare you for what it would be like as you get ready to go across the country . Ms. Grinnell heck no. Ive got in and i sat down at the Soda Fountain and i said i wanted a banana split. One strawberry, one vanilla and if you dont have black walnut, please put another strawberry and no chocolate and strawberry syrup and the cream and nuts. I always get that. The lady went away to make it and she came back and she said we cant serve you. I said are you out . She says no. Oh. Oh. R saying oh, three times because it shocked me i could not get a banana split because i was sitting at the counter. I wasnt thinking, i just sat down. Had you had experiences like that in california . Notgrinnell they are over, covert. You can feel them. Asked when i went to high school, my cousin was filipino. Claudette, might middle name is claudette, she said i want you to come to the filipino picked it. I said no, im not filipino. She said come with me so i went and took my date. We got to the place outside of San Francisco and the guy sat outside the gate and he said i have to let you and, are you sure you want to come . So i had that kind of thing. You people can come in, do you think youre going to be happy . It was presented in a different way. You why you decided to goodrich additionally black why you decided to go to a traditionally black university . Get mennell dont wrong, it was great, but i should have gone to the city. It was too much learning at the time. Being in the south and the mentality. What was that like . I didnt like anybody. The black people and the way people. Young. F all, i was i didnt know anything. In the 50s. Then. Und person, you are very ignorant, but you dont know it. I thought i knew everything. When i went there, i couldnt understand why the white people treated the blacks the way they were treated and why the blacks allowed it. With the blacky people for not sitting in, the kids. I didnt understand but i do now. In, the parents would have been fired. I had no idea. Like inwas the union terms of black consciousness . Teachers that we were talking about . These issues . People,nell i believe its a way of life and they knew how to live within the system. I understand it was comfortable for them, but i think i have a black society which is a way of living. Johnson, who is my favorite instructor there. He had to phds i think. A very bright man. He used to play in a quartet. I dont know, he played violin or something. He said one night he was driving home. He used to tell jokes in class and he had a white woman in the god im goingd my to be killed. He was always saying Something Like that. I dont remember. Im so old, i dont remember. Language ask questions about this i am going to ask questions about this. What kind of conversations were you having amongst yourselves as the students . Ms. Grinnell we were having meetings. Think were the leaders. We were always having meetings about that. Yes. Can you remember what the meetings were like . Ms. Grinnell no, i cant. Being old is a son of a gun. I thought the world was going to change. I was so naive. The Police Person was very nice to me. When we were arrested, he held my hand and he helped me up. I thought that was so nice. Aunt called me my called me and she said icu being helped into the paddy wagon. I was angry with them, because i felt they lived in virginia, they should. I met a woman at the 50 year reunion. She was in the sedans so evidently i knew her but i didnt. They needed pictures of when they were young. Because i havent seen these people in 50 years. Andere sitting at the table tears were coming down her eyes. Too, but i crying dont cry in front of people. She said her father was fired. I had to move out of state. She had to drop out of school. I dont know she ever finished college and i thought you know, thats how naive i was. She was one of the few people from virginia in the sedans. ,uite a few people were there im sure, but i wanted them all to be there. I didnt live in virginia, my parents were in california. What did you want to change . Ms. Grinnell i know that we are all not going to be hunkydory, but i thought there is going to be integration now. , i remember when we got arrested, we went to a courthouse im sorry, we went to jail and we all went into the same south and it was smelly. Cell went into the same and i thought not even a clean cell can you go into. Then, we went into the court and it was segregated. Then i remember a black man came in and he was a drunkard and you could smell him. I thought why did the dredges have to come in . It is going downhill fast. I thought, am i losing my mind . Horrible. Not now that we sat in, we have these attorneys and theyre going to go to court and everything is going to be right and its not going to be any longer. You can change laws, but you cannot change people. That comes about through your. Oing individually created what kind of process is that . Ms. Grinnell what do you think . Think the young kids today, many of them did not grow up during that era. If you get angry with anyone, it is angry not because the persons color it is for some other reason. I think that is great. Many of the kids are that way today. You, you are always going to have an upper dog and a lower dog. How long were you in college before the sedans started . Ms. Grinnell i dont remember. You are asking me difficult questions. [laughter] really, i dont remember. In fact, i was surprised it was so important. Been, the sithave aboutvirginia union was three weeks after the one in greensboro, North Carolina, february 1. It would have been one of the early ones. Aware remember if you are of other sedans . S . Y other sit in ms. Grinnell i dont remember. . Ms. T you were aware grinnell i was going to be a nonviolent person. I am not a violent person anyway. Just my mouth, unfortunately. Thought, isnt fair to have people hate you hit you and you can protect yourself. Its not fair. If i had been a man, i probably would have been angry and retaliated. Trouble . U run into ms. Grinnell no. Dogs and things, but it was fine. Tins were calm compared to other cities. What happened . We went to a Department Store and we sat down, i didnt sit down because i was so tall but they pointed me out. High heel shoes and that made me over six feet tall. They wouldnt serve us. Comparedatively calm to what i have seen on the news and talk to other people. How many students . Ms. Grinnell 34. Were you arrested right away . Ms. Grinnell the first time we work, the second time we were. We walked from school to downtown. I hate to say this, but it was a jovial mood. A lot of kids walking together. I guess we were all going to change the world. I dont know how they felt, but thats the attitude that i had. Were there songs being sung sung . On mar ms. Grinnell yes and dont ask the the names. I had to learn the songs. Growing up a catholic, you didnt know the songs. I had never heard the black National Anthem in my life. To, adam was went a big man and he and my uncle worked together. He came to town to talk and i went to one of his civil rights meetings. In the church, the people clapped and they bank their feet and it scared me because i dont want this on the thing, i had never been in a whole group of black people. Can you imagine . Im black and im scared . That doesnt make good sense. You have never experienced this before. Ms. Grinnell no. You said earlier, when you first got to virginia, did this change for you . I got a better understanding of what was happening. People had to live there. The white people were only going along with the status quo. I knew i was getting the hell out of there. As soon as you could . Ms. Grinnell yeah as soon as i could. Why was that . Ms. Grinnell because i didnt like virginia. I shouldnt say that on camera. Virginia has any fine qualities. I was too immature to really appreciate what was happening. I was too immature. Did you ever experienced any other parts of the deep south . Ms. Grinnell no, that was enough. [laughter] this, wheno follow you finished at virginia, where did you go from there . Ms. Grinnell school wise . City wise . I went to washington, d. C. Boyfriend andman my mother kept saying come back to california. I said when i go back, im not going back to san diego. I dont like san diego, its to country. San diego is flat. I said im going home to San Francisco. She says claudette, please come back. She says i will pay your way back in if you dont like it, you can go back to washington, d. C. , or San Francisco. I come back and im a kid partying and i got a job. Im stuck there for two years, another city i dont like. Then, i moved to l. A. Because im partying and l. A. And i have friends there. I love dancing. Allought i will dance summer and go to all these parties then i will go to San Francisco and get a job. I never did, because i waited too late. I got stuck in l. A. And thats for you stayed. What did you end up doing for work . Next my last bill, l. A. Embly unified School District. I taught people working for masters. You know i have a doctorate in even behavior. I taught graduate students career psychology. At cal lutheran and mount st. Marys. Usa you san diego. My masters at usc. Alifornia im a california person. I want to ask more details sitins. What is the experience you went through their outside of jim crow that was different from where you are raised . Sitins, whatthe did you bring back to california from that experience . Ms. Grinnell that the wheels of. Ustice turn slowly i often thought, what i do it would i do it again . Yes, i would do it again. It did hurt me job wise. I went for a job and the guy said i had to hire you because you made a high score on the exam. But i dont think you will be happy here. He said i see you have been involved in civil rights. I always put down that i have an arrest record. District, they flunked me on training and experience. I was working for the County School district before a game to a unified School District. I asked superintendent, he liked me as a person. I said can you figure out why they wont hire me and l. A. . He says you have an arrest record for sit in and you are going to be a problem. I finally got in because someone mistakenly sent me a contract. I think it was my guardian angel. Maybe it was a black secretary who sent the paper out. You want to talk more about the it was sitins. Uncomfortable. I think i have suppressed that. It hurts to this day. What is it about it . Becausenell it hurts many peoples attitude have not changed. On both sides. Also, when i see these black kids not going to school, it hurts me to my heart. Realizeng, dont they they need an education, they have to vote. Many of them are not doing it. I want to cry. I really want to cry. You told me before we started that looking back at these times made you feel emotional. I was wondering what exactly you are feeling thinking about . Ms. Grinnell the way the whole situation is today and also with obama being president , many feelings that come to surface. Many of what other people feel has come to surface in a negative fashion and i dont like that. The screaming out during sessions, calling him names, comparing him to hitlers and so toph. You always need a dog, i understand that. If we get rid of race, it will be size, height, color of eyes. It will be something. When my brother came back from switzerland, he was the man behind kissinger at the geneva conference. He came back and he said this b. S. I said what . He said we have World Problems to contend with. Ofyou come from a family serious achievers. Ms. Grinnell yes, i do. Any insight . Ms. Grinnell no, not at all. I am glad i did. Your work in the School District and as a counselor, were there racial issues that . Ame up question mar a. Grinnell yes, and i wrote three page typewritten letter. They are going to say its not racial, but it is. We did expulsions. We had a hearing. Brought that did knives, guns, weapons, etc. We would say you were either straight expelled or suspended expelled. That means you are either kicked out of the district or suspended from school. We had a kid who, without any names, who was involved in drugs. Because his parents had money, he was white, they didnt kick him out. I was so angry. I was one of three on the committee. I told the other two Committee People who were white, i said you know he is guilty. They said he is going to go to college. I said so . They said we judge a casebycase. I said dont be that to me. I said dont do that to make. The kid is guilty. Saying theetter innercity kids who are not going to go to college who do the same thing or not as much will be expelled. Its there. So insidious. How did you feel when obama was elected . Ms. Grinnell i was elated, because he was intelligent. Not only because he was black, i have to put that also, but he was intelligent and i felt he was going to do the best he could for everyone. Not just black people, everyone. You cant have someone doing for one group and not the whole group. In working with the School District, were you ms. Grinnell yes, i was on one of the committees and i asked a question. I said why are you only bussing the black kids . He said did you hear what i said . We are bussing the black kids and that was it and he was talking over me. That was it. I remember that. Are the ones they who had to get up early, come home late. Driver far. L. A. , we had in the number one Elementary School academically in my area because the people who lived in my area were educators, doctors, lawyers, black mostly. Our school was tough. My kids went to private school. Anyway, they bust the kids from school bussed the kids. They said why should we bus the kids . Our kids dont need to go to a white school. What the School District did was take out every other great so you had to bus your kid away. Was that one of the reasons why you sent your kids to private school . Ms. Grinnell no, i just did. I sent them to the french school. They ended up at Public School eventually. Which schools . Ms. Grinnell [indiscernible] thats where my sister went. Do they have an ok experience . Ms. Grinnell yes. My kids dont see things the way i see things. My son used to be Vice President of dr pepper and marketing. Before that, he was with fritolay in marketing. I dont want to say anything about it for corporations, so i wont name the corporation, that he has a Glass Ceiling also you know. As you are raising their own children, did you talk to them about the experiences that you had . Ms. Grinnell i did not, no. My mother didnt tell me, she would show me these history books and i would see and read in the history books. Prejudice ment to against people, which i can appreciate. I didnt want to do that to my children either. I know i took them out of school and i stayed home that day and on Martin Luther kings birthday, i would take them to the museum. That was the big black thing we did. Before it was a national holiday. Ms. Grinnell right. Getting black people in schools . Was that happening for your children . Ms. Grinnell i dont think any more than i got. I dont make so. No, i was on a Book Committee with l. A. Unified School District and i said why is this page with a black person on it at the end of the chapter . Said because when we send the books down south, we tear that page out, we dont include that page. Said i read the chapter and it doesnt have anything to do with the chapter, you just put a page in there to sell your book. The project we are working on is on civil rights. What is the Civil Rights Movement to you . I know it can be defined in different ways. I am interested, in the experiences that you had, whether you see yourself as part of it . What is the Civil Rights Movement . Kids,innell today, the especially in l. A. , they are not concerned in civil rights. Its lala land. What shoes do you have on . What purse . What brand name . Ball,r you can wrap, play basketball, where jewelry. Black, white, green, or yellow. They are very involved in superficial things that wont last. Here and ived up kept my house and l. A. They, they meeting with people, in case they burn a cross on my lawn, i am moving. I am too old to fight now. Of course, they did not. What people did not. You thought that might happen. I. Grinnell yes, because read in the newspaper that a written onad nigger in ojai,nd california. And over act of racism like that in your town, did that surprise you . Ms. Grinnell no, i didnt expect it, but it didnt surprise me. Could you tell me what life is like in a town like this for an africanamerican person . Ms. Grinnell it is like anything for any right person. It is a small town that closes up when the sun goes down. It has one block downtown and it takes that are very expensive and a lot of little restaurants. It has a theater that gets firstclass movies because of all the directors that live here. Two live theaters. In theater, the local play the local people play and it. The other one, i dont know i dont go to that anymore. I go to l. A. Close you can go to the club and take your child and your dog. There is one club next to the movie and its a nice little place. Its nice. There are walking trails and horse trails. And the helicopters are not ghetto copters, they are private helicopters. That is one thing i have to say, i hadnt been in los angeles and 20 years and it was something to see the helicopters in the sky again. Ms. Grinnell i knew if the helicopters were overhead in the projects, if its too late in the day, you dont go in. Job didou do, in your you do as aninnell not expulsion counselor, but before that i was making home calls. In people services. Expulsion was under that, that it was different. We had i dont know how many jobs under psa. I would make home calls. You learn how to make home calls. Callnew on what we mothers day when the people got there welfare checks, you dont go and. Different days. What happened on welfare check it . Ms. Grinnell the people werent going to be home. They were busy. Do you think, again discuss but where do you think we are now . How do you feel . Ms. Grinnell i thought about that. The more things change, the more they stay the same. We have codewords now. Its like living in california now. Its covert. Me. Se eat,ighbor, we go out to we are going out to eat next monday for a bus. Here, myved in neighbor sent me a high which i thought was for a nice. Another neighbor gave me some fruit. My neighbor said i am from some southern state. She said it again to let me know that im ok, im a human being. Because she told me that. I didnt answer your question. I have pondered the question, where are we today . The black kids dont have to go into education, social work, whatever the jobs were that we could get. Ask an oldce, you person like me, i am 73, what did you do . They are all in education. Because thats the only thing we could do. Although the black men were at the post office. With degrees. Today, you can get other jobs,. Ortunately ri yourt me ask about experience, were there other women in your program . Other black students . Ms. Grinnell yes. Usc didnt have many blacks, that there were other blacks. There were a few, not many. Experience was fine. I didnt feel any racism at all. From that experience that you had at virginia, specifically experience, did you draw on that at all in other parts of your life . Ms. Grinnell draw on it and which way . I dont know, i will leave it up to you. Other times that came back to you or that you took from that experience . Ms. Grinnell yes i think it opened me to be more respectful in my mind of people of different cultures. I called richmond a different culture. To be respectful and to appreciate differences. We all cant be alike. To appreciate where i am the moment. At that time, i was my god i cant stand richmond, look at the people. Im judging. I was backwards, they were fine. What was it like going back for the reunion . Ms. Grinnell richmond hasnt changed. It looks the same to me. I dont know. When i saw downtown, i said this place is the same. I like visiting, but im going to live in california and im sure theyre glad im here. [laughter] ms. Grinnell would you have sent your own children to black colleges . Went one place and he didnt like it. But he went to morehouse for undergrad. Then the other school he went for graduate school. Was that something you thought might be important . Ms. Grinnell i wanted my children to go. My daughter was only 15 when she started, she was too young. My son was 16 or 17. Two young. They went to college young. Ms. Grinnell yes, but he was ready. She said she was too immature and she knew she was. [indiscernible] what did i take out of it . As i said, i had my eyes opened when i went to the reunion, the 50 year reunion for the sit in people. I thought about it, how i was so judgmental. I remember an old black woman saying to me why are you guys marching for this . You need to march for better jobs. I thought you silly old lady, she must have been every bit of 50. Why are you asking me these silly questions . I didnt say that to her, but thats what i was thinking. Or, we are ready yet. I thought when are you going to be ready . You were involved in early did virginia ms. Grinnell i graduated in 1962. Did you follow what was going on at that time and richmond or other parts of the south . Uestion mar ms. Grinnell yeah, i was here. I told my husband, i want to go to the march on washington, i really did. My brother would keep me informed. He said today, people are meeting at the white house and planning strategy with kennedy. I said youre kidding. He said yes. Do you remember your reactions . To the Civil Rights Act . Ms. Grinnell i was extremely happy. It didnt take much to make me happy. [laughter] how does that relate to what we were saying before about, maybe you can change the rules but can you change hearts and minds . Why do you think that was important . Ms. Grinnell as i said first of people. Have to educate maybe hopefully through education, people will change their way of thinking, hopefully. Maybe people will get out to , i keep sayingn they, the parties that the, black or white, but stumbling blocks in the way. You have so many people who dont care. What difference does my vote make . Its not going to change things anyway. Two days, itt seems like the Voting Rights act might be challenged. What is your reaction to that . Good, lets take it all the way up and see what happens. Good, good, good. Its a fine. As my aunt and uncle, lets have a good fight. They loved knock him down fights. Legally. That brings my other question, which is how did your family react about your . Nvolvement you g i called my uncle and he said talk to attorney martin. I talked to attorney martin, i said my uncle told me to talk to you. He said i know him. I said he says for you to take care of me. He said i will. I felt happy and giddy about the sit ins. It was depressing. The whole thing about being in that paddy wagon was not cleaned then, the jail was not clean and the courtroom was segregated. And the guymelly who came in was nasty and smelly and i thought im losing my mind. This is hell. I didnt know what hell was at that time. [laughter] you said you were giddy. Ms. Grinnell im giddy because i am changing the world. Im going to court, its going to change, were all going to be py and its going to be black people are going to stand up and white people are going to be ok. Ande not going to also down eat ice cream together, but at least you are going to sit down and respect that i can sit down here. You got the support of your uncle. Ms. Grinnell yes and my aunt called me from new york. Were there others who were ms. Grinnell nobody. Not at all. What was the reaction you got . Ms. Grinnell they were very happy. My uncle said claudette, things are not going to change as fast as you think. It takes time. Did you believe him . Ms. Grinnell yes, because i knew he was doing that in norfolk, virginia. I believed him. Do you feel that the family you came from impaired you for what ms. Grinnell im sure. Without knowing it, you give your children their values. And overtly, both ways. In fact, my mother always said the squeaky wheel gets the attention whether its better good. I was the squeaky wheel. Touch with stayed in people from virginia . You went to the reunion. Ms. Grinnell no, only charles. Doing black tv History Month and i said that charles and i went online and found him. Had you been aware of what he was doing all these years . Ms. Grinnell no. What was he like . Ms. Grinnell he was my boyfriend. [laughter] he was a baptist minister, and at the time, i was a pseudocatholic. I went to Catholic Church in richmond and i knelt down and everyone came in and they looked over and saw me and got up and left. I said my faith is not that good to start out with and you guys are helping. Im thinking. People are going to help me when i say this, because im spiritual now, whatever that means. Mass, ihe priest after said white people came in where and they looked over and saw me and got up and left. Then, an old lady came, there was no place to sit and she came right and saw me and she knelt down beside me and she saw me and got up and left. He said my child, pray for her. I said im not going to church anymore. I have to pray for people and you can tell them during a mass . That was the last time you went to the church . Yes, and my faith was into strong anyway. It didnt take too much to make it go away. [laughter] what was Young Charles like . Uestion mar ms. Grinnell i would go with him when he preached. He used to call me catholic girl. When i said boyfriend girlfriend, we werent tight tight but we were boyfriend girlfriend. Had you seen temperatures like that before . Ms. Grinnell yes, i went with one of my girlfriends to her churches. But they werent powerful. They did sing songs. A song with a beat to it. I like that now. [laughter] [indiscernible] ms. Grinnell no, no. You can get it on youtube. [laughter] do you have any other no. You covered quite a lot. Im sorry, my memory is really bad. Im so sorry. What was it that made it so emotional . Ms. Grinnell i felt that i wanted to cry, because when i think about what as they said it happened in the past and what is happening now, i am not too sure that we are that far from the past. I used to think the poorer the person was, the more they would hold insults, but that is not true. They can hold 10 phds and do the same thing. Aboutaid, i want to cry my black children not voting. White kids also dont vote unfortunately. Not going to school, drugs are rampant. Ohai has a big drug problem. Where are we going today . What are we doing . [indiscernible] ms. Grinnell yeah. I dont know. Project,sly, with this we are in some ways celebrating the Civil Rights Movement. But were also taking stock. It is time to reflect, not only on what is done and the 1950s but where we are. Ms. Grinnell sometimes, i dont want to reflect. Because it is uncomfortable. Said im husband, i not filling this paper out for a go to bed, cousin will be able to sleep. When i put my uncle down and my aunt down taking about the things they were involved in and so forth. Is it to you think about how they would respond . Ms. Grinnell no, i think about what they went through. Auntnt tell you, my integrated the Greyhound Bus line. That the courts had already said it should be separate but equal, they did not integrated. My mother was visiting. Told my mother and another sister, we are going to washington, d. C. From virginia. On another bus. My mother said white . Lets drive. Said no, lets take the bus. She got off and said call your uncle because im going to get arrested. And she did. Because she sat in the white section. The courts made them away the law. Obey theurts made them law. Is surprised me, once the law was in effect, how much testing had to be done all over the country. Ms. Grinnell something was on the news recently about a small southern town. I dont know what it was. Did you see it . I missed it. California,here in i know not to go in some cities. Heck yes. What kinds of things do you think would happen . Ms. Grinnell for example, i was going to a city. I dont want to name the city. Canyon country, down that way. It was before gps. My daughter was with me and i said we cant stop at that little club there. It looks like a little redneck club we cant stop there. I said you know what im talking about . She said mom, i know. I dont know she knows. She said she knew. You can feel it. , inhats something that some ways it hasnt changed. Ms. Grinnell yeah, right. When you intellectual isaac, you get in trouble. It,hen you intellectualize you get in trouble. You have to go with your gut. You can decide a lot of things intellectually, but feelings are a whole different ms. Grinnell absolutely, and thats true of man in everything he does, regardless of race. In some ways, you rely on community. Things that i would think a difficult and a place like this or a community that large. In grinnell no, i felt it ojai, but i move on. Do you remember when they had the green book for black people at aaa . When you travel, we were little, i was little. Andarents used to go to aaa you know how they draw the map for you . They had a special book for black people or you could stay where you could stay. When we traveled, my parents would stop any black persons house and say do you know where black people can stay . They would say this is jones has a room. Then we would go there and stay overnight. Those are the kinds of things that people can imagine now. People cannot imagine now. Like grownups and they werent even born until 2000. Ms. Grinnell thats true. That says a lot about aaa, how can people react and take care of each other. On the flipside, integration close many black peoples businesses. Peg leg bates had a place in the upper northeast. I heard the black people used to go there and stay overnight and have a good time and it closed when integration happened. Many of the black hotels and other places closed. Are there things that the black community lost to integration . Ms. Grinnell some of the black kids dont know who they are, whatever that means. Who they are. My girlfriend is married to a mexican fellow, and her kids told her mom, you think that because you are black. They dont know anything about her really. They dont identify that way. Ms. Grinnell right. Stories a lot of we hear a lot of stories of loss or nostalgia. Black schools. [indiscernible] ms. Grinnell speaking of black, i have written the l. A. Times and other various newspapers about not capitalizing the word of black. I spelled it out why i felt it should be. White is generic. Black is not. When you say black, you only mean an american from africa. You dont mean a jamaican, a mean arican, you only person in america who is black. It should be capitalized. I felt it was an insult when you feel in the papers when you see in the papers, i or for black. Lowercase letters for black. In that package, i have a letter i wrote to this local paper. Im surprised they printed it. They talk about two black women doing something fraudulent and if you should see them, call the police. I wrote them a long letter. I said you named two black women. You have made it dangerous for me to walk downtown. No description. Its in that packet. Have you written any other letters to the editor over the years . Ms. Grinnell only about the black issue have i written. I wrote to the l. A. Times. Im always writing letters. Too. Igood letters, was riding my bicycle and i was going to fast and i didnt have my helmet on and i hit my head on the fire hydrant and i am down there crying like an ugly thing. I look uglier than ugly when i cry. Two men got out of their truck and they said are you ok and i said no, im crying and one man held my hand. I thought youre looking ugly stop crying so i stopped crying. They were to white men helping a black lady or two men helping a female. Vent felt anything can if i felt anything, i move on. We might be wrapping up to. Do you think about what you did in virginia and in part of those protests as something historic you did . Ms. Grinnell i do now. I didnt think it was. One of many people across the country. I didnt realize it until afterwards. Not until i was out of school and i was in the library and the lady says dr. Grinnell, do you know anything about the Civil Rights Movement . I said yes, i was in it. She said you were . Not a big deal. Then, i realized she was a young teacher. Thats when it hit me. I guess it was a big deal. American history tv is on social media. Follow us at cspan history. War,xt on the civil historian Harold Holzer and Valerie Paley of the new york aboutical society talk artifacts featured in their joint publication, the civil war in 50 objects, including a brown pike and a model of abraham lincolns hand. Minutes, James Holland alliesbout his book the strike back 19411943, the war in the west and nazi germanys weakening position in the middle the war. And Temple University professor david farber talks about the origin of the 1960s vietnam antiwar movement. Good evening, everyone. It is my absolute delight and to have the opportunity andpeak with my good friend professional colleague, Harold Holzer. Said, please feel free and well q a button get to as many questions as we can towards the end. Attention to some us describe help the civil war and might we see of our book, the
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