So, we are glad that youre here and were excited to be talking about the memorial and lets get right to it. With me is harvey pratt with. Hes a citizen of the tribes of oklahoma. He is a piece chief and has been a career Law Enforcement official. He is a working artist and he is a marine and vietnam veteran. Put your arms together for harvey pratt applause what caused you to submit a proposal or proposed design for the memorial . Our veterans director just kept after me. I had no, really had no hope that they would come closer. He just kept after me and kept doing it for the tribe and i said let me dream on it and i said i have to dream. Some of my best creativity is done in the morning and so thats what i did. I went home and i dreamed about it and i got my big chief tablet out and got some sketches and it just came to me all of a sudden that morning. In order to touch the 576 recognized tribes and how difficult that was and try to tie them altogether. And i thought, the way to do that is spiritually and i said that native people were the same but were different. We have the same concept but we do it a little bit different. Thats what i thought being a chief im involved in a lot of ceremonies and ceremonies are important and i thought thats the way to approach this. Its spirituality through ceremonies then through a piece of art. I wanted to do something that you could walk into and that you could walk into an who like you walked into a chiefs lodge or a sweat lodge. That was my concept. I saw things about being around forever and i thought of the circle. I just had the idea and thought thats what i am supposed to do. Im supposed to do something about spirituality rather than a statue. But we had other objects before the new . Im in the process of working of the Capitol Grounds in denver and ive been an artist before for a long time and i was born before he was going to be achieve and i was born in a little houses already know and my mothers aunts took care of me, and was a bare baby and he said he wants to be a chief and i have to feel like this is Something Special. I always admired my school teachers. My First Grade School teacher never forgot her name. There was mrs. Jones and mrs. Why. Who is another schoolteacher and mrs. And they always said you had some skill and i often thought about that and i thought everybody could draw as a child and i thought everybody could do something but adults have to tell children that theyre special or that you sing pretty or you dance pretty or whatever it is. Folks never tell children that so they recognize that. It impacted me enough that i would tell my children if they had a skill to try to reinforce that and the other children i would meet with the art of the Indian School va patrick and i was drawing one day and thats in oklahoma. A priest came by and he saw what i was doing and said youve got talent and he bought me pencils, paper, paint and i painted a picture and i painted a painting and i did it about the crucifixion and made everyone indians. I sold it i sold it for 90 dollars in 1961. And the light bulb went off. laughs the light bulb went off and said oh my gosh, i can do this. I can sell some art and from that point on my art i use to try to paint all indian art and they would say thats all wrong and we dont do that but i concentrated on my tribes. That brings us to mind with your school age artist who is doing all right it sounds like and how did you become marine . Well, i got out of school and went to college and i didnt have a car so i hitchhiked every day to school and back and hitchhiked to work but i was tired of being broke and i felt like it was a struggle. I always admired my uncle who is in the Second World War and served on several campaigns and he had been wounded and part of his foot was gone in part of his face was gone and had shrapnel all over his body and was our family hero. He was the sergeant so he was a marine and said im going to join the marine corps. I never told my mother that i just went out and did it and i came in one day and she was sitting across the table from me i said mom, im going to tell you something, i joined the marine corps yesterday. She looked at me and her mouth flew open and i call the disillusion scream. I never expected that reaction from her until i got a little older and i thought about it that she was thinking of her brother who was wounded numerous times and missing an action. She relived that for me through her brother and i got hurt in boot camp and i pinched a nerve in my arm and i was paralyzed in my left arm and i was devastated because im lefthanded and im an artist. I thought i will never sell another painting again. They put me back to the basement and they put me in a catchers truck and a wire cage in the back and put my see bag in there and sitting on my seat bag and its raining and im soaking wet and cars are passing me and i was so depressed and i had my oils and i opened up that bag i pulled it out and it said my drill instructor said harvey pratte will be a good marine and it saved me. Telling me because they called you a lot of other things but they didnt call you a marine and i said, you know what, im going to make it and from that point on unless i healed, when i went to the rifle range i qualified for the m1 and i got hurt and i came back and gave me an empty 14 to i qualified as an and 14 soldier i was one of the first guys need to use a m14 and they made me a military Police Officer and while i was there lieutenant came by and it didnt tell us what we were going to volunteer for but i volunteered and not supposed to volunteer but i did. They sent me to guerrilla Warfare School for two weeks and i trained with the recon unit and we still didnt know where were going at our going to the philippines. They sent us to South Vietnam in 1963 and thats where i served seven months there what the recon unit and we guarded the base and the assets and we picked up shot down pilots and helicopter pilots and spotter planes so when they got shot down we went to go get them and brought them home. So to me, that meant a great deal to Indian Culture to do those kinds of things and to save people and save your brothers and that was one of the biggest things you can do to risk one of your mates that was wounded or in battle so i thought about those things about being the first and it was important to our culture and was important to me. Ill tell you a story that my mother had three daughters and four sons and three daughters are the oldest, they were complaining that they didnt get treated equally with the brothers. They said you treat my brothers better than you treat us and you give them everything. My aunt laura said, those boys are going to die for you someday. They will have to protect you and protect the camp in the village and theyre going to have to die for you if they have to and she said thats why we do that to our men theyre going to have to give up their life for the rest of us and thats why we treat them special and my sisters realize that and we dont think about going to war or dying for anybody but thats what the old people said. Keep your shoes right there by the bed you might have to get up and run. I didnt understand that why, would have to get up and running in the middle of the night because they were attacked and i was raised by people that were born in 18 seventies. They had had to witness those kinds of things and keep your shoes right there you may have to run. Call your spirit in at night time and my aunt would call us in by names and say im right here and she said i know but your spirit is still out there running around and im going to bring it in. Things like that that took me awhile to realize how valuable those things were to us that my aunt laura would consider and our spirits and soul and in a physical being to keep your shoes there and carry a rock in your pocket so you can put in your mouth and make your own water. Just things like that that made us who we were. I think a lot of life history and lessons made me a better person. The spirituality of who we are you get up in the morning and you try to be a better person today than you were yesterday and thats the way i tried to be and one of the chiefs would say is that you have to make sacrifices and thats the way i approach life is to try to be a better person today than i was yesterday. How do these things that you learned like being a marine inform your work and creating this design . I think that i had always been somewhat creative but it taught me to adapt and to overcome and you think about things and not just except it and when something happens if, you can change it, change it and i think that helped me throughout my career and even in Law Enforcement when issues came up i didnt just accept them. I thought about them, i could make it better i would try to make it better. I think the marine corps taught me that and some of the history that i picked up from my family which taught me to be a man and some of the expectations that we expect of you will have to live under those things. They were important to me and we were extremely poor and i never owned toys. We had clay, we made our, like horses and people and cards and animals, thats what we played with. That had always helped me to be creative about what i did and how i entertained myself. Turning back to the ceremonial elements could, you describe those for every one how you think about it and how you speak from experience. Yes, you know, i have the ceremonial memorial pathway that comes off the welcoming center and it goes along the north side of the west and it curves around and plays as it goes and that pathway is what some people call the red road and we call the path of life. Its preparation for veterans men, and women, mothers, uncles, relatives that if you want to pray for somebody you prepare yourself as you walked this path and thats what i wanted on this path for you to become prepared as you come to the path and the memorial is 50 feet across and 14 feet high. It is a horizontal circle and circles are important and theyre called a warrior circle, so you have an outer circle and as you walk your path to prepare yourself to go in to pray for your veteran or pray for somebody you love in your family or someone thats passed on you go there and pray and you make preparation and the circle is in an outer circle is rocked and you can walk in counter clockwise or clockwise in whichever your tribe does so you have that opportunity to be who you are and be a completely different person and it has entryways that are north, south, east or west. You can head in any direction that you choose and the power that comes from any direction and into that direction and want to come into that direction from those openings you come in through harmony or now prepared yourself for someone and you get within that inner circle and thats harmony and harmony with the elements and with the fire and the earth. Here in harmony with those things and those are all elements that people use and they use sacred fires and every morning with water and say my morning prayers and not only do they use water to purify themselves and on the inner circle we call it the drum and it was symbolic but it has water that comes out and flows across the top and down the sides at thats the water that is there so in the middle is a 12 foot stainless steel circle and at the base of that is a fire so you can use that fire to have your sweet grass or things that you use and you can touch the water and use the fire. We call that the drum. The water pulses out and goes down the sides and the design in the granite is rhythmic and goes out like that and goes off to the ground and goes down the mall and all the way to virginia and western parts and calls the indian people to come to the sacred place. We are going to make it sacred by your prayers and will sit down on this granite and youre going to pray for your loved ones and youre gonna pray for your ancestors and its timeless, the circle is timeless. When i say its timeless, its we can think about our ancestors and we asked them to pray for us. We think about our young men and women in the service right now and for the present and then for the future and its for our grandchildren and as for their grandchildren that this memorial is timeless and is not dated. Its going to be the same as it is now as it was hundreds and thousands of years ago and hundreds of thousands of years into the future. It will mean the same thing and there is sacredness in cardinal points and the cardinal points are the southeast and thats when i say that when you get up every morning you look at the sun coming up and he say im going to be a better person today. It is a new beginning and southwest is red and storms and things coming out of the southwest which shows you his power and remember him as our father and the northwest is yellow and thats mother earth. She gives us everything and animals and the plants and gives us deminion over those things and thats what we pray about. Northwest is color black of our ancestors. We always invite our ancestors before ceremonies we feed our ancestors a give them food and tobacco and ask them to come watch to make sure you are doing the ceremonies away that we should and we dont change and try to maintain the sacredness of those old ceremonies. God gave people a written language and of indian ceremonies and thats what we try to protect is our ceremonies. Those things to me were very important and we consider all these things where they have eagle feathers on them and battle ribbon that hangs down the side that has a certain catch to it and its the sacred colors. We have prayer cloths onto the lances so when you say a prayer for one of your loved ones thats overseas are in the military or has been getting ready to go or has come back and you make a prayer for them where the wind blows and that prayer goes out that person, i love that. We have the prayer cloths all over with my wife gina and when i think about it i tear something up and i say a prayer on it and i say to pray for me harvey and a prayer will go out. I try to touch all of those things spirituality about indian people and i think that were very spiritual people and i think about this land and people ask me a lot of times, why do indians fight for this country when they treated you so poorly . There is a lot of reasons where you fly to the left of you are the right of you and you fight for your country and for human beings on this American Continent which is just animals and the garden of eden and who did god give it to . God gave it to the indians. He gave this land to the indians. So ill say, look, we are fighting for this land and its always been our land and god gave it to us so we fight for this land. Native blood is all over this land and soaked into this earth and now, we become universal and our blood is soaked all over this continent in all over this world. It is precious to us and thats why we respect it and we do the right thing and care for it. One of the things we think about and thinking about after the memorial opens is sort of the protocols around how used the memorial and we know that native people know the proper way to offer the offering of the cedar. How do you think we ought to advise our non native guests to experience the memorial you know. Most people are very aware of religions and the freedom to have a religion here and you see that in our culture and we have all different types of religions and i think that people will see these people making these ceremonies and they may wonder and i thought about that and you could have a dose of it and i dont have to tell you anything which is blessed for his relatives and with his son or is daughter which is creative and protecting and thats what we dont know the exact medicine that you have and ive always carry this my whole life and ive something right now which will help me and protect me. We think about those kinds of things and if people are respectful and i think thats what we want to have at this memorial is respect. We want to have respect from the different cultures. I was reading some statistics say that 40 of the American Population believe that indians are dying race and will no longer exist. 40 of the people think that indian people cease to exist when we turned into the 20th century, that shocked me. I also hear they say that they respect the idea and thats what happened. People see us doing something and they have to be respectful and ive had people say, can you smoke us off to . I was in the investigation one time and some of these investigators saw me and i was Walking Around and what i picked cedar i picked him off of everything in the north, south and east and west and i prayed and i went to the fire and these investigators are saying harvey, what are you doing . I know youre doing something and we see you doing something. Well, im just going to smoke myself off and be with a good heart and do the right thing. Could we could you do that for us to . Could you do that for us to . I was surprised that they really didnt know but wanted that same thing and i thought about that a lot and people would see you doing Something Special and they want some of that too and they want when you pray when you get, somebody something and ive learned that and you see that a lot when we do ceremonies and people come say. Would you smoke off my brother over here, he wants some of that. He wants some of that he sees how it makes you feel, how makes your people feel about a ceremony. I would love to have people watch and be respectful you know. And ask, could you do that for me . I think that is what is really important that you do those things for people. Regardless of who they are. Is there anything people should not do . In the memorial . Many things i know. Theres a lot of things, when we do ceremonies we would not let you carry water at a sundance. You cant run and shout, you cant be disrespectful. Like even at the tomb of the unknown soldier. They will chastise you if you get loud. For me that would be disrespectful. I think to me that would be disrespectful to us if someone was doing something that was disrespectful. I would hate to see that. So what i i would hate to see i think thats as good as a characterization characterization you can make. Just show respected all times on this ground. For the audience, when we were out walking to veterans across the country about what the memorial should be about, what it would be like. We were i was, a bit surprised because we first thought we would put it out here on our independence side, where we have some open space. And then it would be very visible. All these people driving by all these people walking by would sea and hopefully wonder and come see what that was. To my surprise, very consistently, the veterans were telling us no, its too noisy out there, too many cars, too many people. Put it on the other side where there can be some privacy. And for the purpose that you are describing they will use it as a ceremonial space. Yes so harveys design really grasped that in a way that much of the designs did not. The proposed designs. When we were working on, we had a conductor to design competitions when we are working these were the criteria, these are the things that we want the memorial for the designed to achieve. It occurred to us even then that native people are going to understand these differently. The native artists and designers, they will understand these differently than the non native. Nevertheless, when we were evaluating the proposals, we had 120 from all over the world, from most of the states in the united states. We still, we did not know who had submitted any given design. The identity of every proposed designer was unknown to the jury. So we are very concerned for example the Martin Luther king memorial, was designed by a chinese designer. And we thought that would not be very good for the native american memorial. To be designed by someone not from the united states, but someone who had not had that experience. On the other hand we had some degree of confidence that native designers were going to understand it. In the way that we wanted it to be understood and i think you design really exactly the sort of thing that we anticipated. As a native designer you would see it, you would understand. And of course your experience as a marine would further inform that. It was what we were looking for. Somewhere during that whole period, that came to me. I thought, i understand. I know what im talking about because ive been involved in ceremonies and things like that. I and i think i understand the way native people are. Even though we are different. I understand those things about them. Thats what i try to incorporate into my design. Those elements that we would all understand. We may not all do them but we all understand them. For example they warriors 12 foot circle, the steel circle. I call it the whole in the sky. Where the creator lives. He lives up there that hole in the sky. When you make of prayer offering or sacrifice it goes up there. And the creator hears it. And he sends it back. A blessing to you. That is the way i interpret that. The air in the sky, and the creator. You ask him, you beg him for something pitiful. And hell have mercy on you he will give you a Blessing Comes back to you through that hole in the sky. So to me theres a lot of symbolic things that i learned throughout my life, that i try to incorporate and think about. If i think about it, theyre gonna think about it. They are the same thing. Theyre gonna make a recognition. Thats what i hope for. That you would recognize the directions, the cardinal points, and the elements and the colors and the pathway. All the Little Things that would mean something to native people. I was not worried about trying to educate non natives, that will come. That will come with this memorial. We will educate non native people about who we are, and why we do certain things. That we are a spiritual people. That we are, concerned about this earth and how we live. We try to live a good way. And you recognize that is when you get there and hopefully, people will see a good example and follow it. Yeah. So one of the challenges as youve already described is that, even though weve had some commonalities needed people are very different one from another there are 570 some federally recognized indian tribes. Several hundred more than are recognized by different state governments, and the number that say their tries are not recognized by either. How tempting was it to one of the things you might do is try to find it cannot graffiti, or different hobbles for a variety of different cultures, and try to put them all together in one thing. Were you tempted . You know i thought about that, what you heard me is when i tried to paint other cultural ceremonies. I was doing it wrong and they would say we dont do that. So that to me, that came to me and said i cant. I can try to do something that is southwest tribe did or great lakes. Someone that did things different. I cannot add those things, those cultural things because i will do it wrong. Thats how my thought of the spirituality, and the elements. We all use those things. So that so i did, i initially thought about doing the culture, because i do scott. Ill do a sculpture and then i thought well if i do that, that does not represent those people. That doesnt represent those people. Thats why i chose to have, a destination. A place that people can go to. It has a death a purpose. Its not a short cut, its not a pathway. You have to go there in mind, to honor veterans. Then you go in and go out. Its not a path that people can walk through and go into something else. You have to go to our memorial specifically. Its not a shortcut. Its where you go to make a commitment, as a veteran or a woman, or grandson. He was specifically to pray for someone, who has the creator something. We did that so it becomes a place of strength and power, with reverence, sacredness. When someone goes in there, they will feel all those prayers, feel all those things. Thats what i want. I want people to say, this is the best place. Gina and i have a place on our property, that we found and its a place that we go to. Its a place that i go smoke my pipe, tie little prayer cloths there, thats a special place. Theres a lot of those on this earth. Thats what i want this to be a special place that people can go to, and be energized. To be free of any guilt they had, to feel better about themselves, to feel if they go there to pray for someone it means something. We have all these other prayers that have already been in there, its going to have strengthened power and healing. Thats what i wish for. Thats what i wish it will help us with i wish it to help our veterans. Let me ask this will turn a different direction what do you think the challenges that native American Veterans are facing today . I, i became involved with a Veterans Organization and i go to the va hospital, and i see veterans and i see a lot of things. I see people that are homeless, people that are angry, on talk about all kinds of people, that are veterans. Not just indians. I think that indian veterans have been forgotten about. Not forgotten by their people, by their tribes and families, but forgotten by this country. By the government sometimes. When they make it hard. I know i have tried to get benefits, and some things like that. They make it difficult for you. I say okay, im not the one. When i came back from vietnam, my hearing was damaged. And i went to the medical doctors there and i said i cant hear very well. And he said you are nothing but a malinger. I said okay. I dont want to be that i turn around and walked off and never said anything again. Even though i was damaged. I see that and if that happens in the people, i say okay. Thats done im done. They dont fight as hard as some people do. To hear what they want. Ill take care of myself. Thats part of the problem that we have to train veterans. Say hey we are here to help. We are here to help you because ive been through it and i know it, ill help you go through that path so this is the way you do this to achieve a bit of it, if something from youre hearing, your agent orange. Those things. I will help you do it. Thats what we need to do. We need to help those guys that have given up. Thats why i got involved with our Veterans Organization. The american legion. Belonged with indian veterans. You know hes a veteran, but he kind of hangs back to the side, you go over and help them. I can help you do this. They did that to my brother. He never applied for nothing, he went into one of the meetings, kind of like what we have the to the veteran groups, he was just walking by and they call them in. They said we can help you do this. And he draws disability. He was homeless. Now he has a little place and draws disability. He is pride in what he has done. He gave up. I think thats what happens to a lot of us indian people. We need people that are willing to step up and help them. Show them there is a way. One of the things i talk about a lot, sometimes even after all this time i struggle to find the words for, is about how native that earns are received in their own communities, and how their status and prestige in their communities, and i dont see that a similar sort of thing going on in non indian communities. In whose experience . Talking about how the native americans veterans are treated within their own communities. And by their people. You know when i was in vietnam i fully expected to die over there. And i was afraid my bones what stay there. They will not find my body. I dont want that i want to come home. I want my bones and body to come home that was so important to me that they didnt leave me over there somewhere, and when i came home my family had a big ceremony they had some medicine men smoke me off and pray for me and do something for me. My family gave away and they fit everybody. To me that felt so good about what my tribe and indian people were doing for us. Ive seen it my whole life, and i really experienced i felt like i belonged. A long time ago, a lot of the tribes when their man went out before they could come back into camp they made him stay out. They made him stay out on the perimeter, they would howl like wolves. They send the medicine men out there to cleanse them and said cleanse you because youve been fighting and doing things and we dont want you to come into the camp, around their women and children and act that way being angry and volatile but we want to cleanse you and clean up and make you a human being again before you come in here. Indian people were curing ptsd a long time ago up and they knew it and they had seen people put and medicine doesnt work for anybody and its here and here and some guys insist that theyre angry about it and they want to try that and up will visit with a man that they were interviewing when they went to vietnam and killed people. He still carrying that around in his heart he killed people and something should have been done for him and he had been around for 40 years. That is terrible, and we need people to help cure those kinds of men that do things and help them get past that. Its a journey. It is. I read a book a few years ago and i hope i dont mangled the authors name but he wrote a book called tribes and was talking about pts and why so many veterans struggle with pts. He concluded it was because in most places and most veterans they dont get that reception back and are not greeted by the community and are not helped to understand whats happening to them as they say it is more the spiritual cleansing. In a way as well most veterans dont get to tell their story and theres no safe place for them to talk about what theyve experienced and i think that the tribes had learned about what ptsd was before and practices that helped alleviate it and can show others how to do that. Speaking of that, im sure you would agree that not just native veterans are welcome in this memorial. I do agree with that. It is for everybody. You need to go there and heal and pray and participate. It should be for everybody. If you want to learn and understand you should common participate and be part of it. I think in a lot of ways even native veterans are closer to their fellow veterans than to even some of their family or people in their tribe and that experiences are profound and thats a kinship that isnt that trouble. I have a good friend that we went to boot camp together and went to vietnam together and he was a pratte and was a cajun pratte and we had some talked two or three times a week on the phone through text and i am as close to him as to anybody else. I was close to him because we experienced that kind of thing together and he was a real tactical guy and he could tell you the sound of the weapon and the explosions and it was just that kind of technical guy and when he was like that i just flew by the seat of my pants and i went this way and we matched because we were from opposite ends and we were really good teams just him and i and we were in these upper one time and we were in the air field and a week later we are all standing there and said go out on a special mission and we want volunteers. laughs the volunteers are pratte and pratte and he was just elated. I wasnt sure about it. We always heard about you marines. All right, harvey, thanks so much and thanks for being here this afternoon and for all the things that youve done in all the ways that you served and thank you for your creation and to be able to work with you is an honor and continuing to be with you in so many ways are memorial and a perfect designer. The design team its just been phenomenal the way things have come together and its been a great experience for myself and my wife and my family and the tribal people and the people that have fundraisers and are just excited and are raising money. To come next year. They are selling fry bread trying to raise money so they can come here. We are looking forward to that will be a great day, veterans day 2020. We will be dedicating this Memorial Police facts and are looking to make sure, that there will be thousands of native American Veterans here at the National Mall next veterans day. So thank you all for being here this afternoon, thank you all for those of you who watched online. We got some more work to do but its a labor of love now and we look forward to completing the project thanks again. A winter count is an historic record of a tribe drawn in symbols on a hyde or other material. In a short film, lydia bluebird uses her great uncles winter count to explain the tradition. The sioux were one of these tribes. [ chanting ]. Their existence on the plains depended on two animals, the horse and the buffalo
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