Do you know what youre going to do today . How did you feel about it . Upset. [indiscernible] i tried everything. Almost everything. What is your family going to do when youre away . Worry, i guess. Had been drafted before but he didnt go. We tried everything. His wife is pregnant. [street noise] dont volunteer dont volunteer, whatever you do. [street noise] vietnam is this nations most anguishing problem. The middle east is the most dangerous. Military strength will be maintained do you want to eat something . I dont. What . Maybe ricky will. I really felt that way, too. I just feel that i cant possibly give another one of my boys to the service. But were so very grateful to everyone for all the help they have given us. Two months ago this Selective Service center which covers most of the San Gabriel Valley notified dan willie that he was 1a. Yesterday he was notified his induction had been postponed but even if it had not been postponed, willie was going to go to school today. He does not plan to be inducted into the service. Hes one of five sons in this Thomas Willie family. Three of his brothers have already served in vietnam. One died there. The willie family decided that they had given enough, that this son should at least be allowed to finish college. Hes the first man in his family ever to refuse service. His forefathers severed in the civil war, the first and second world wars and his brothers in vietnam. When his brother john died in vietnam the Family Tradition of service ended and his parents said no more. I know what we went through when my brother was killed and im not going to make them go through it for me no matter what happens. Ill never go in the service. Were not bluffing. It dont matter to them but for four years, weve had a monkey on our back. It just aint going to be in this family anymore. Its awful. Were not putting up with it at all. Its over with us. I just hope they go ahead and give him a student deferment for a while anyway. Of course, we hope it will be changed. Thats what we want. Anything to keep him out of the service. Keep us in the country. There will be no medical in any way, shape, or form. When it comes to that were leaving. We wont go that route at all. I just felt, and my husband felt, we had served sufficiently in this war, and that this family has been torn up by this war for four years, and if they take our other two boys it will be another four years before it will be over for us. I dont know how to tell the story of how we found out. Of course, we were notified by the army that john was missing first, and then five days later, that he had been killed. How did we feel . I remember looking out the window. It was mothers day. People were coming and going and they were having company and so on, i thought, why is the world going on . Dont they realize that its stopped . But how do i feel . I really dont know. Tom and i are very religious, and this is the only thing that saved us, im sure. Were very close. I remember when they gave us our gold stars, they gave us seven. One for each of my other five children and one for my husband and myself, and i said to my daughter, they left seven gold stars, and she said seven, what a strange number. It was a strange number to us. We had six children and we were a family of eight. Seven never entered our mind until then. For months and weeks and almost this whole year, tom and i had just wondered why we even try. What difference does it make what happens to you now . You get to the point where you think why, are you living . We felt that we had raised our children, and now they were dying, and we just wanted to be with johnny so bad, that we thought maybe if we died that would be the best thing to happen to us. But i realized that you cant feel this way, im sure my son is in heaven, and that someday well join him, but you have to live with the others, too. Live for the others, too. I know this. What a world of depression it can be to lose a child. The thing i found is that people dont know quite how to act. They are not quite sure whether they should come to you with condolences as if you had lost a family member. People kind of talk in hush tones, as if they had a sense that you must be shamed to have a son who is a federal convict. For me, when he was drafted in chicago, he became very much aware that he was a boy with a good education, he was able to talk well, who only got a classification for the draft board. It just seemed so unfair that he felt he couldnt string along with it anymore. His being in prison was something that we had to look forward to. He had no faintest thought of going off to canada leaving his country. He feels very strongly that people who take this kind of a position do so because they are devoted to their country, and the principles on which it was based. Simply have to take whatever the consequences are of this kind of thing. So i think he accepted the idea that he would have to pay society in a way that society demands, and we would, too. He went in and gave himself up to the marshals on may 4. Take care. You, too. Tetra the prison the prison system can break any man and they make every effort to break every man and this kind of an prehandcuffs i feel constantly. I think elizabeth feels it constantly and its the sort of thing, we dont like to talk about it. But i think it is fair and that is the kind of apprehension there is. Do you agree . No, i do not. Its not there at all for me. I have no question about that. Physically, they can break a man but i do not think they can break a mans spirit if it is rooted and grounded in love, if i can use a quicker expression. The things they are saying to us, you get into doing something yourself, resist this thing yourself in your own lives, dont leave it to us to do all the resisting. I have a very clear sense of my own resistance of feeling that i want to keep working and doing the things that i can do to raise the level of understanding about the war, bringing the war to an end. In other words, to do things with my life at this point, which rick isnt able to do because hes behind bars. That was the sign for the day. [indiscernible] tom landed in southeast asia, vietnam, but its very difficult for me now, and if i cant teach anything objectively, then i would rather not do it at all and i cant be objective about this war. You began to wonder, can you really teach the kids that this is the government of the people . All the people you know seem to have one feeling, but the government seems to have another. You wonder if youre being unpatriotic as youre being told you are. Youre questioned, and when you work against government policy, i dont feel any less patriotic. Almost a year from the time we were notified that his plane had gone down, there was a prisoner released, and somehow one of those prisoners knew that my son was alive and was in prison. I dont know what personally i would do, or say to my son if i had to do it over again and he was leaving. Certainly i would say something. I wouldnt just let him go away not realizing what war was like. This, i think is the thing i think about often. Whether it would have impressed him at the age the young man is. It bothers you because you always think perhaps my son would be here and perhaps he wouldnt be facing the bleakness of every day in prison, and the bleakness of no future that he can see other than prison. Just perhaps. Had i said, what war was like. I think that his father and i both feel that our son is being abandoned, and before you know it, its another christmas and you realize this is the third christmas your son is sitting in prison. When you are shown some of the films made in prison and you look at his eyes, a mother recognizes her sons feelings, i think, perhaps than anyone, and though he doesnt look too bad physically, his eyes look so sad. As his father says, so far away, and then you know he has that same feeling of despair. [indiscernible] that becomes the most important thing to you. [indiscernible] u. S. Pilot captured in the democratic republic of vietnam. Dear mom and dad. Happy wedding anniversary. As for me im in good health and keeping my spirits up. Love mark. If im not here in future years when he gets out, at least hell have some record. Hell know that some people cared. That some people were working for him. I may be naive but i still feel that the majority of the people somehow can make their feelings known. I think thats the only way we can bring it to an end and i can see my son again. [laughing] here you go. Help him. Oh, yeah. Thats right. Try that one again. Its important now, as far as were concerned, what happened to us, or what happened to roy eliminate can do to that possibility of war in the lives of our children, all children, not just our children. Were from a long line of ranching people. They have horses. They work very hard physically, and they enjoy that excitement and challenge of a rodeo. Oh, man. [laughter] a bull in the arena is not anything, and he put such a value upon his ability to ride, because he thought it made him happy and it did. But it does require Perfect Health and good coordination. Two good arms and legs and im worried about him. Everything else i have been able to get together, but religious people are probably worse than anything else. I was brought up in the church of christ. Fairly straight church. Of course, then i had to go to vietnam and do these things and i had to go to vietnam and do all these things i was told was on proper. When i go to church i feel like i dont belong there and i know you shouldnt feel that way in a church. Sometimes i think if i go to a church and participate, then im just living a lie, and i dont want my children to see me living a lie. Where are you going, now . Dont run off. When i was injured, i tried to think about how he was taking it before i ever even saw him for the first time because i knew the telegram said prognosis poor. But the pain really of the injury, what happened, really didnt start then. It was later, when i would see him in the wheelchair, and other parents were playing with their children, you know. So the foot wall or whatever, and i kind of thought i knew how he felt not being able to do that, and there were a lot of times when i was alone with our child, that i would see other families together. Im sorry. It was hard to get adjusted to everything. The way it turned out. I cant go out and play football with my kids and teach them how. Things like this. Its hard. But it comes around. The main thing is i cant let myself if you get to feeling sorry for yourself and fall into that pattern, feel like the world owes you a living, its going to rub off on my kids. And they are going to grow up right, and im not bitter against anyone except just the way things are. They need to be changed. This war has to be stopped. [dog barking] [bird chirping] turco when he was home, had to do on the farm he tried to redo. He built fences. He took the wagon and picked up the junk around. He lined up the machinery. He planted trees. He mowed the lawn. He plowed. He stayed in the field the last night until 10 30. I think he knew that he wasnt going to come back. I used to get up in the morning before i would go to work. I used to tune into sydney, australia, and get the first hand news 12 hours ahead before we would get it here. About every three days we always got a letter from him. So we could follow the footsteps with him every day in the jungles. On thursday, that would have been the 19th of february, everything was upsidedown as far as my world was concerned. I couldnt grasp, i didnt know what was wrong. I knew something was wrong, and i suppose this was probably the most terrible day in my life, and i cried. And i sewed, and i cried and i sewed. At midnight i called a friend of mine. I said, whatever is ahead of me im ready for it. So i was ready saturday morning, when they came, you knew. When i saw the uniform go up the stairs, didnt break down. This is when i probably became the angriest mother in the world and i started my protests as far as the world was concerned. The sun was shining. It was approximately a 45degree temperature. And i was outside the house on the other side of the house. I was working on the antenna for television. And something just told me to come around to the other side of the house. I walked around. Up the walk, i saw first i saw the sergeant, and i saw the local pastor of our church about 15 to 20 feet in front of me and i challenged them, i said is my son dead . He stopped. I said, is my son dead . And the priest said why dont you come in the house. I said, no, i want to know. So i asked him a third time, is my son dead . He didnt answer me. I came in the house, i called down to peg, she was down in the room, i said mike is de. Mike is dead. She came up the steps. The sergeant and the priest were standing in the kitchen. I asked him, was my boy killed wednesday morning . And he said i havent told you people yet that your son is dead. He said, well, the military doesnt give you the courtesy of telling you that your son is wounded, but they do fulfill the application to say your son has they fulfill their obligation to tell you that your son was killed. My husband was upset emotionally. He lost complete control. That was his way, he had to do it that i tried to stop him. I thought he was going to break windows and smash furniture. My first thought was to calm in down. Then i thought what the hell, his son is dead. He has a right to do this. My reaction to the death of my son was 25 years of my life torn out of me. I was stunned. I couldnt see. I had great hopes for him because he had great future. I just couldnt see why it had to happen. I was very strong in my bitterness, and i just couldnt accept it. It was only when they brought the body back and i was asked to take it, that i accepted it. I went to the airport and they escorted by boys body through the funeral parlor. I asked to have the dog tags and the military said they belonged to the United States army. I said thats enough. From now on, boy is mine. And ill bury him as my son. Not as a military soldier anymore. I have to live with this thing. I have to make his death or cause in my household. This is what im doing now. Michael has to have died for something. And i think its my duty to see that he did die for something. If im protesting for the lord thats something ill continue to do. My feeling now is a feeling of guilt. I feel that i didnt do enough to enlighten my son. When a mother loses her son she simply feels she didnt protect him. Even the even though hes a man. Hes 25 years old. Shes still there fighting for him. I just didnt do it the right way. It isnt a patriotism thing anymore. This son is yours. Hes part of you. They would have to drag him over my dead body to get him to go out. In world war ii, some of us have taken off our uniforms and some havent taken off the uniforms, but i took my uniform off when i passed out of the discharge center. And ive had all the wars i want. And as for fathers, i dont understand how fathers can see their sons go war when they know what war is. I dont understand it. I dont want any more of it. [shoveling sounds] [tires grinding in the dirt] hello trico i am donna you can do something. Mother forher peace, beverly hills, california. One million voices raised together will be heard. Announcer this is American History tv. Exploring our nations past every weekend on cspan3. Day,ncer tonight on cumin how south sudanese videogame bringing peace and conflict resolution through the refugee experience to a wider audience. [indiscernible] these are all young people. Mindset when i was playing grand theft auto i was like how about if these young people from south sudan Start Playing this videogame, not because it is too violent but in the videogame it is the same thing happening in my country. It will feel like how things are done. Getabout playing for video how about playing their games for peace . Tonight at 8 00 eastern. Tour takescities American History tv on the road to future the history of cities across america. Here is a recent program. The harleydavidson story is a unique blend. Its a microcosm of the american industry. The company was born at the dawn of the 20th century when so many things were happening and the company has actually been in continuous operation, making motorcycles for 116 years now. For me, as a curator, its wonderful because the story is so great. Ups and downs through the depression, world war ii, triumph and tribulation, and they saved everything. You will see as we walk through the museum, they had, for whatever reason, you know, these young guys starting this company from almost nothing, began saving stuff from the first years of their operation,
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