This week on q a, president ial historian Richard Norton smith discusses his book, an uncommon man the triumph of Herbert Hoover. Richard norton smith, why did you call your book that you wrote 35 years ago uncommon man . Well, its taken actually from the title of a relatively famous hoover speech about the uncommon man. If you remember, Vice President henry wallace, who was the second of fdrs Vice President s, gave a famous speech in 1942, maybe 43, about the century of the common man, and wallace from a left of center perspective, was projecting in effect, the goals and ambitions of the generation that was fighting world war ii. And it wasnt enough simply to defeat the nazis, but to create, at home, a true democracy. A place where the common man would finally come into his own. And hoover approached this from a different place in the political spectrum. He was, in effect, making the case for what we might call a meritocracy. I shouldnt paraphrase it, but when you get sick, you want an uncommonly skillful doctor. When we go to war, we want an uncommonly able general. You get the picture. The advances in society were brought about not by common, but by uncommon individuals. And it was hoover wit, who said, i have never met an american president who is proud to have their son or daughter called common. And its an interesting you know, its pan interesting outlook. So in any event, it seems to me that it applied to hoover more than anyone else. Hoover said, when all said and done, accomplishment is all that matters. Which when you stop to think about it, is a rather unsentimental, the sort of thing you would expect an engineer to say. And thats one of the keys to understanding his life, his success, in everything but the presidency. As we continue our series on the presidency, go back to the beginning of Herbert Hoover. Where did he come from . Where did it all start . His wife began in august 1874. General grant was in the white house. His father was a blacksmith. Jesse hoover. His mother, holder hoover was first of all, they were both quakers, which meant that she was an equal presence in the church, in the community, in the home. She was a laypreacher, if you will. So religion was a significant part of his early days. He remembered and again, it seems to me such a window on his later shortcomings, if you will, as a politician in particular, he remembered as a boy sitting in the stark, cold, barren Meeting House that the quakers used in west branch. And his feet didnt even touch the floor. And along with all the adults, women on one side, men on the other, waiting for the divine light to illuminate his life, to move him to speak as it moved others in the congregation and he also said something, i think, terribly poignant. He said he was 10 years old a before he realized that he could do something for the sheer joy of it without offending the lord. When people wrote about the adult hoover being an enigma, an emotionally distant man, who was nevertheless clearly very moved by the suffering, particularly of children, in belgium and thereafter, they had trouble making the two hoovers blend. And in some ways, again, its a preview of his strengths, were the mirror side of his weaknesses. What were his parents like and what happened to them . He was orphaned at 8. Jesse died first and holder, i believe, i want to say, he may have been 10. In any event, he was put on a train with ten cents sewn into his jurnt clothes and some homeland vittles and sent to oregon, to live with a quaker uncle, by the name of minthorn in newburgh, oregon. If you go today, you can see the Herbert Hoover boyhood home there. And there he was, in effect, trained to business. His uncle was a businessman and burt, as he was known, went on to stanford. He was in the original class. In fact, stanford became probably the closest thing to a home away from home. He would be a trustee for over 50 years. He built his home there. Today, its the University President s house. But in any event, he loved stanford. And he ran a business, he ran a laundry business. He ran other businesses. So he had this entrepreneurial streak in him. Studied geology and engineering. Met, fell in love with lou henry, also from iowa. A unique woman, in many ways. The first at stanford to earn a geology degree. So they had this real Respectful Partnership from the beginning. They were intellectual equals. And the best evidence of that is they were married in 1899 and the government of china had invited him to help develop that countrys mines and they were they went. On their honeymoon, they went to teensen, where they were promptly caught up in the boxer rebellion, which was the uprising of native forces against the westerners, who for too long had in effect, subjugated, had exploited a very weak china. In any event, they were in teensen during the siege. And there were these wonderful letters. Lou, who she was the perfect wife, because she loved adventure. And to her, the boxer rebellion was an adventure. She writes letters home saying, youre missing one of the great seizes of the age. She also said later on, she got up every morning and swept the bullets off her front porch. They had two children, two sons, and lou designed you can see it at the library in west branch, lou designed a cradle exclusively for use onboard ocean liners. By the time herbert jr. Was 8 years old, he had been around the world five times. Which tells you, hoover began digging ore in nevada and being hired by a London Mining firm at the age of 23 and sent to australia. Found fabulous riches there for his employers and then went to london. He had offices. By the time he is in his po30s, hes generally regarded as the worlds foremost mining engineer. Hes living in london and one of the things that would come back to haunt him throughout his political career, throughout his public life, were those among his own countrymen and, nativists who believed he was not sufficiently american, that he was really british. Its reminiscent of some of the allegations made against barack obama when he ran for president. In any event, hoover was 40 years old in 1914, living in london, hugely successful, restless. He was a member of the society of friends, a quaker, and he had a quaker conscience, and he was bored with just making money. He was a millionaire, several times over. He was not terribly impressed with wealth. So in 1914, at the outbreak of world war i, he was very receptive when he was approached by some fellow engineers. The first crisis of the war was something approaching 120,000 american travelers who were in europe at the time the war broke out, who managed to make their way to london, but then they had to get home. And hoover agreed to, in effect, lead this group that put up their own funds, at times. That managed to organize transportation to get all of these people, and later on, out of all the checks he wrote, he said 500 wasnt repaid, which was a fraction. And it taught him a lesson, for better or worse, which is the foundation on which everything that follows rests, he had an unlimited faith in the generosity, the basic goodness, and the trustworthiness of the American People. And thats important, because subsequently, within a matter of weeks, he was approached about taking on an enormous task, something never before attempted. Something that no one could really put their arms around, because it was unprecedented. Belgium had been invaded early in the war by the germans. Basically, it was out of the war and there was 7. 5 Million People in belgium who faced starvation at one point, who was told, they were down to about five days food supply. In addition, theres a corner of france anyway, between the two, there are 10 Million People who confronted the real specter of starving to death. And in the face of that, hoover was asked to, in effect, abandon his career, for however long the war lasted, and undertake the organization of what i call an independent republic of relief. No one had any idea of the dimensions of the task. They learned that the hard way. But eventually, something called the commission for the relief of belgium or the crb. And he and remember, britain was blockading europe and germany. The germans didnt want to feed the belgians, the british were shocked that anyone asked them to feed the belgians, who, after all, had been invaded by the germans. What hoover was doing or attempting to do, had never been done before. In the end, it was a fouryear effort that cost over 1 billion. When 1 billion was real money, much of it voluntarily raised, some of it provided by warring governments, but he kept the belgians alive. One of the things and there was so many stories. As long as he lived, he told belgian stories. That was a period of pure unadulterated accomplishment and idealism. I mean, lou, for example, his partner, undertook to save the belgian waste industry. And, again, they were always trying to raise funds, because, basically, she saw to it that there were these surreptitious factories, if you will. People who are making, spending belgian waste, which would be smuggled out of the country. People would wrap themselves in this lace under their clothes. I mean, this story has everything, you know . Its a spy story, its a humanitarian story, its a political and diplomatic story. Hoover was not very diplomatic by nature. The interesting thing is lou said later on that he was never the same after belgium. What he saw particularly the children, remember, he was an orphan, and all his life, there was something about hoover, he was not naturally gifted in social interaction. But with children, there was a different person and belgium stamped him, for better or for worse, and the other remarkable thing. Again, building on what we said earlier, it was all voluntary. He appealed to the American People. He said, again, the American People, if you tell them what you need, they will give you their shirt off their backs. And there is a you go to west branch, the records are there. It is its a remarkable story there was one group, i think there was a kansas club of new york, who were going to build a clubhouse, and instead of building the clubhouse, they gave hoover the 500,000 that he raised. And that was repeated over and over and over again. At this point, the United States wasnt in the war. But, again, that reinforced hoovers with belief that all his life, he was looking for a third way, between laissezfaire, which he abhorred and socialism, which he dreaded. And he came up with this terribly clunky, very hooveresque term of what was it . Voluntary association, the idea that without government coercion, without legislative edict, you could approach you could reach americans at the grassroots. Through churches, through the red cross, through a whole host of volunteer organizations. But that was the backbone of america. That was the strength of america. That was what gave voice to american ideals. That was great. It worked. And Woodrow Wilson asked hoover to come home and he had become a phenomenon, as you might imagine, and wilson entrusted him with something called the American Food administration. And he is its all voluntary. There are no ration cards in world war i. He uses propaganda. He uses public relations. This new embryonic science to reach people and touch people and motivate people to respond to his appeals. So there were meatless mondays and wheatless wednesdays. Not every campaign worked. There was a campaign by a pig, you know, a properly cared for pig is as sanitary as anything else. Well, the suburbs did not rise up and embrace that. Whale steak was adapted to some, though not many diets. Sugarless gum is a byproduct of the food administration. Again, the idea was, the American People would grow more, save more, and together, they would basically feed their allies across the sea. The problem with that, theres two problems with that. Again, it confirmed in his belief, which by now is a bred rock conviction, that whatever the problem, you didnt need a government solution, you just need to organize hoover always said, a test of democracy is when you organize through the ground up, not dictated from the top down. And again, it confirmed her in this faith, economically, the problem was, the legacy was that we grew farmers grew more and more, they became addicted to foreign to surplus, you know, purchases overseas. And of course, in the 1920s, no more war, no more european markets, theres a slump. So there was an agricultural depression in america long before 1929. And that was one of the things that bedeviled president s through the period. Hoover and Woodrow Wilson became close, for what passes for close with either man, each in his own way was almost too rationale, too cerebral for the political process. They were both in versailles. Wilson and hoover was part of the delegation. And later on, years later, hoover did something no America President had ever done. And in fact, the record stood wilson. Which is very sympathetic and a best seller. Hoover wrote two dozen books. That was the only one on the best seller list, but its a fascinating and what is in wilson that clearly appeals to hoover, its useful to know in terms of predicting many of the problems that hoover would experience in the white house. Who asked him to be commerce secretary and how long was he there . And what impact did he have . Two different things. The Harding Administration Warren Harding, rather touchingly, aware of his own limitations, set out to recruit a cabinet of the best men. So Charles Evans hughes became secretary of state. And he asked hoover and basically gave hoover a choice. And hoover picked the commerce department, which in those days was perhaps the least Important Department in the cabinet. Well, of course, hoover being hoover, soon there were cartoons portraying hoover as secretary of commerce and undersecretary of everywhere else. And he did rub a lot of feathers, because he used well, he created something out of what was there. The federal radio commission. Radio is regulated because hoover started it. Forerunner of the fcc. And from the outset, he was certain that he did not want a bbctype arrangement. He did not want he wanted government to regulate the industry, but he didnt want government to run the industry. With, you know, enormous repercussions ever since. The first airfield in washington was hoover. Hoover field. Its over where the pentagon is now. He took he wrote zoning regulations that could be adapted all over the country. He promoted the construction of new housing, with standardized products. I mean, sounds kind of dull, but the fact is im trying to think. Hoover is an engineer. He thought like an engineer. He ate like an engineer. In the white house, it was famous, no state dinner could last more than 60 minutes. And he once eight five courses in 13 minutes. In the 1920s, he called his son into his office one day, his son, who was he was Herbert Clarke hoover. And he was Herbert Clarke hoover jr. And he said, you mind dropping your middle initial. And he said, no, but why. And he said, well, i have to sign my names hundreds of times a day, and i can save a few minutes if i dont have to i mean, youve got to get yourself inside that kind of brain in order to understand both hoovers accomplishments and his limitations. How long was he commerce secretary . He was commerce secretary for eight years almost eight years, under both at the tail end, after he had been nominated for president in 19 it will, but 7 1 2 years under harding and coolidge. Theres a very poignant scene and you know, who knows what might have been harding had Great Respect for hoover. He never he said, you dont write the same gd english that i do. Well, thats im not sure that thats an insult. But in any event, but he had Great Respect for hoover and one thing i mentioned, both parties in 1920 flirted with the idea of nominating hoover. Wilson told his brotherinlaw that if level to him, he would choose his successor, Herbert Hoover. And hoover talked to some democrats in 1920, but he decided, he was an old he was a bull moose republican. He was a Teddy Roosevelt progressive republican. In fact, his problem with the party throughout the 20s and throughout his presidency was from the right wing of the party, that never really trusted him and a lot of them were isolationist, too. And they held his cosmopolitan background against him. But anyway, he accompanied harding on the crosscountry vounlg of understanding to alaska where harding felt ill and then they returned to san francisco. Its funning, harding pressed hoover. Harding puz clearly impressed by something and he couldnt sweep. So he played bridge endlessly, game after game of bridge. And its funny, hoover, who loved cards and was a mean canasta player in his later years, permanently lost his taste for bridge. Never played bridge again after harding died, because that trip had worn out his tolerance for the game, but also because of the tragic consequences of the trip. Harding asked him at one point, cryptically, if you news of some great scandal within the administration, what would you do . And hoovers advice was to go public with it in all. He said, you would at least get credit for exposing the wrong doors. It was very clear to hoover that teapot dome and the other harding scandals had broken through and were you know, he said, later on, he said, people dont die of broken hearts. But people can get exhausted and be vulnerable to heart attacks to same disappointment. And clearly Warren Harding was disappointed. The completion of that story, harding died in august 1923. Coolidge becomes president. He retains hoover. They dont have the same chemistry that harding did. Coolidge was a suspicious of activity as hoover was unwilling to be inactive. Sk and plus, i think coolidge sensed hoovers ambition. And yet, its interesting. When the mississippi overflowed to this day, by some measurements, its still the greatest Natural Disaster in American History. 1927. The flood covered thousands and thousands of square miles in the south. There was no government agency. There was no expectation that government would respond in any way. There was only Herbert Hoover. Who had this nickname, the master of emergencies. Well, this was a domestic emergency on the scale that he had dealt with overseas. So, typically, he left washington, went out into the field, organized, you know, tent cities, Railroad Cars full of food, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And its interesting, because in 1928, he ran against a very impressive government of new york, al smith, charismatic figure, in many ways, seen as sort of the father of modern liberalism before franklin roosevelt, his successor. And its, you know, no one writes about 1928 without emphasizes the bigotry and the anticatholic bigotry that smith ran into, particularly the south. And extraordinarily. Its not Barry Goldwater who broke the solid south and its not dwight eisenhower, its Herbert Hoover who carried texas and several other southern states. The assumption is he only carried them as a measure of the anticatholic bias that existed in the deep south. And that clearly was a factor. But theres another factor that tends to get overlooked. And that is the gratitude that people in the deep south felt, because hoover was the face of relief at the time of the floods. The only person, really certainly the only Person Associated with government who had tried to address their needs. I mentioned the harding story concludes in 19 they built a harding tomb. A great, big, hollow drum in marianne, ohio, but they couldnt get anyone to dedicate it. Coolidge wouldnt go and dedicate it. And hoover so in 19 seven years ago after harding died, hoover took a train to marianne and dedicated. Not only did he dedicate it, but he used his speech to single out people in the audience who had been crooks in the Harding Administration. People who had hastened the president s death. I mean, it was a very gutsy thing to do. How was he picked by the Republican Party to be the candidate and how big did he win against al smith . He was, in many ways, he was a reluctant choice. I mean, remember, this was a guy who had, you know, frat efrater with the enemy. Its a wonderful letter you hear from Young Franklin roosevelt to a friend who had urged hoovers virtues and fdr, you know, genial fdr agreeing saying, he certainly is a wonder. No one would be better than Herbert Hoover as a democratic nominee. But hoover was not interested in being a sacrificial lamb that year. He had you know, he knew enough about politics to know that in 1920, it was pa republica republican year. So he allowed his name to be entered in the california primary against hiram johnson, a senator who was a militant isolationist. And the result was a mixed bag. He got enough votes to really wound johnson and make sure that johnson would not be nominated, but not enough votes to impress the professionals and remember that was the famous smokefilled room convention, where a senatorial cabal, according to legend, met, and by process of elimination, came up with Warren Harding. Well, the fact is, hoover was never a regular republican. Again, he had been a support of the bull moose third party. He was that kind of you know, in the 1920s, the closest thing to a modern parallel would be colin powell, say, in the 1990s. Or early, you know, post2000. Someone who, frankly, should have made the party proud to have as a member, but whom the base would instinctively shy away from, as a standardbearer. How big did he win by . He won big. He won by 6. 5 million votes. 21. 5 million votes, to 15 million votes. However, underneath those numbers, there were portents for the future. One reason why al smith is held in, i think, higher regard than most unsuccessful candidates, is theres a real sense that smith started something. The best evidence of that is cities american cities. Calvin coolidge carried new york city. The last republican to do so. Al smith, of course, carried new york city. But he carried a lot of other cities, as well. So you had actually the makings of an early realignment. Had there not been the Great Depression. Had hoovers reputation, in effect, not been destroyed during his single term of office, what is fascinating to speculate is, would that breakthrough in the south, would that have been a onetime event, attributable, in fact, to al smith as an opponent, or might it, in fact, have foreshadowed a twoparty system . How did the Great Depression come about . I cant tell you. I cant answer that. And i think there are a lot of a lot of economists who would if theyre honest, respond the same way. There are clearly a number of factors, some of which are easily identified. I mean, the dislocations of the war, we had this crazy, crazy quote system, where as part of the versailles agreement, basically, crushing reparations were demanded by the victors of defeated germany, which was really in no position, economically, although it had been largely unscathed by the war. Nevertheless, so you had this crazy system where germany is borrowing money from the United States. The United States came out of world war i, the new financial centerpiece of the world. New york supplanted london. The United States came out of world war i for the first time in its history, a creditor nation. The rest of the world owed it. But you had this system where american banks were loaning money to germany, which then used the money to pay off the reformations to anyway. In addition, domestically, you had a rotten banking system. Totally unregulated. There were banks that were speculating on the stock market. I mean, there were banks that were doing things with deposited money that would shock us today. You had wall street speculation, rank, overheated, baseless lots of people buying stock on margin, which is to say, in effect, they were borrowing funds and if the stock market ever went down, particularly if it went down sharply, they would have to sell their stock to pay off what they had bought. The whole system was jury built. Hoover believed it was the cumulative impact of the war. It was not limited to the United States. But i for the life of me cant give you a single reason. One very important contributing factor was that glut of consumer goods in the 1920s. I mean, ironically, hoover, who celebrated the abundance of modern industry, you know, cars were affordable, so were refrigerators. So were, you know, other appliances. Homes, all of those homes that he built, but lots of them were bought on credit. But more than that, radio. I mean, aviation. You had these new industries that were taking off. But the market became literally glutted. And one thing economists know is that wages failed to keep pace with prices. So you had this gap which grew. And at the same time, you had millions of people who were in effect, overcommitted. They were living, in effect, paycheck to paycheck. They were speculating in stocks, but eventually, the purchasing power being what it was and remember, the farmers were depressed and its hard you know, 40 40 of the American Workforce in 1920s was in agriculture. So when you talk about an agricultural depression, nearly half the country was depressed, long before wall street collapsed. One other thing that is so easy to overlook, when youre looking at the failure of the economy to respond to the various stimulative efforts that hoover and some to even later on, frk dr, you have to remembe how tiny a percentage of the american gdp went to the government in those days. When Herbert Hoover became president in 1929, the federal budget was less than 4 billion. And a substantial part of that was going to veterans. The reason he vetoed the veterans bonus, for which he paid a very high price, in fact, it was one of those classic cases, youve been around this town long enough, there are instances where congress will pass something, knowing the president will veto it, so they dont have the take the heat. And the veterans bonus, which had been promised to world war i veterans, but many years down the road. I think in the 1940s. Well, of course, there was this, understandable, ground swell, demanding, an early payment of the bonus, and a 3 billion a year budget could have been doubled. And it would have been throwing a pebble into a river. I mean, criticisms of hoover for not being sufficiently vigorous in exerting the potential of government to effect the economy overlooks how limited was the effect and the other thing was, like all of us in retrospect, we like other things we didnt see at the time. Keynesian economics, the idea that government in bust times should bust the budget. In other words, that it should do everything it could it can to boost purchasing power. Depressions were all about deflation. So if you can inflate the economy, thats the necessary medicine. But nobody knew about keynesian economics in the 1920s. And in fact, theres a famous incident in 5, 36, when fdr meets professor keynes and it was like this dialogue of the death. It was very clear that fdr was not intellectually a convert. He had been politically a convert to keynesian economics. But anyway, there were all sorts of factors. And this is not to excuse hoover. Hoovers great failing, and we can talk about, you know, some of the things you know, at the time, and this is easily overlooked, hoover exists in the shadow of fdr. Fdr did so much more, but in the context of the time, what hoover did was seen as so much more than his predecessors. Remember, we had had Great Depressions before. Martin van buren had been president. James monroe had been president. Grover cleveland in the 1890s had been president. The notion the notion that the government that the federal government, especially, would step in and try to correct the Economic Cycle was heresy. Depressions were acts of god. There were booms and there were busts. And there was nothing you could do about it. And thats the philosophy that, for example, andrew milne who was hoovers holdover secretary of the treasury maintained. He basically told the president just, you know, flush out the system. All of the bad, the crooked bankers, the speculators, all of that, you know, i mean, that was hobsian economics. And hoovers response was to get himself a new secretary of the treasury. He sent mellen to the court of st. James. But the other thing is, we tend to think that the stock market collapsed in october 1929 and the next day there were bread lines. And in fact, this was a story that took time to evolve. Early in 1930, the new york times, among other media outlets, praised hoover for doing more than any president before under the circumstances. Hoover did not believe in a boom and bust. In fact, to go back to Warren Hardings administration, as secretary of commerce, there was a severe recession right after world war i and it was hoover who was, in effect, delegated with the responsibility. And what he did was, among other things, greatly increased public work spending. Which, again is in many ways, a foreshadow of what we associate with the new deal. Well, likewise, hoover immediately, again, voluntary association, hoover called to the white house for job owning dozens of the nations leading business executives. He got them to agree to undertake an increase in their commitments. And wages were talk to henry ford, were initially agreed to increase worker wages. He contacted all the governors of the states to 48 states and appealed to them to increase, step up, accelerate public works programs. He, himself, went to congress and asked for 150 million, which was more than any president before him. In fact, more than most president s combined. And that was just the first installment. So the idea that he did nothing is pretty thoroughly disabused. So why is he 70, 80 years later pilloried . Why is he indelibly, personally associated with the Great Depression . And there are a number of reasons for that. One, the democrats brilliantly hired a man name Charlie Michaelson who work for, i think, the baltimore sun. And Charlie Michaelson, you might say, invented negative politics in the way that you and i understand it. Charlie michaelsons sole job day in and day out was to blacken the reputation of the president. To drive home in voters minds the fact that this man was heartless. This man was responsible for the Great Depression, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Hoover unwittingly contributed to that by being hoover is a great failure. You can say, he had a hierarchical of emancipation. At the worst possible time, built walls around the American Economy and encouraged other countries to do the same. That was a real error of judgment. But hoovers great failing was temperame temperamental. He said, you cant make a Teddy Roosevelt out of me. Well, go back to that 10yearold boy who didnt know that he could do something for pleasure without offending god. I always thought theres a direct connection between that and the adult hoover, who was in many ways, emotionally stunted. Hes the most improbable politician. His story is i suppose every president is unique in his way. One of the lessons, i think, that hoovers story teaches us is, be ware of successful busine businessmen. Because the qualities that drive business success, the ability to work with a board of directors, the knowledge that your order will be carried out, thats not the same as working with congress. Hoover had poor relations with congress, which was nominally republican, the first half of his term, and then marginally democratic a second half. He didnt have the political gift. He knew he didnt have the political gift, but thats the other lesson of the hoover presidency. Hoover is one of those very rare president s, William Howard taft comes to mind. Sort of quasijames madison comes to mind. People who are, again, almost too rationale, too cerebral. Who dont have, in their dna, whatever that political gene is that enables a Lyndon Johnson in the most extreme example, to thrive. What were the circumstances in 1932 . Did he run again . And what happened . He ran again. Was nominated by a listless republican convention. One thing we havent mentioned, of course, is prohibition. Another issue that complicated life, particularly for the republicans, because by law, they had a lot of rural supporters. The Republican Party was split on the issue of prohibition. Hoover, again, a cosmopolitan figure who didnt mind taking a drink, but who was sworn, unlike Warren Harding, to enforce the law. And in 1932, he was on the unpopular side of the issue. I think by 1932, there were a lot of people, including regional supporters of prohibition, that concluded that this experiment had not worked. And that in many ways, it had backfired. So you had he was carrying that dead wait. He had the depression. I mean, he had his own inability to inspire. You think of fdr and radio. Well, hoover was on radio. The difference is hoover was once asked if he got excited, if he found it exciting, speaking on the radio. And he said it was as exciting as talking to a doorknob. Again, thats the literal, thats the engineer, you know . So, anyway, he ran again. The bonus army came to again. This is still being debated and still a subject of controversy, he dispatched Douglas Macarthur, of all people, not to cross the bridge and set fire to the veterans camp. Hoover sent explicit orders to macarthur and they were disobeyed. It was not the last time that Douglas Macarthur was to disobey executive authority. Fdr swept the country. Hoover had 59 electoral votes. This man, i dont think modestly jimmy carter between 76 and 80, but i dont think anyone has ever gone from such an overwhelming mandate when he was elected to the powerful consensus that he should leave office. Roosevelt carried all but six states. And, with it, congress. And then, of course, in some ways, what put the seal on hoovers reputation as a failed president was the next three months. The Hoover Roosevelt idea was so bad that the constitution was amended. President s used to be sworn in on march 4th. It was decided that that was too long. That was too long because it was too long in 19321933. The two men had virtually no communication. I think its safe to say hoover believed that fdr was deliberately avoiding having any responsibility in the hopes that if things did go to hell, that he would then receive the credit, and in many ways thats exactly what happened. The irony is, the banks were crashing at the end. Just the roof was falling in. And hoover could have closed the banks. It was that some would say sub borness, some would say principle. I would say a lack of political finesse. But he insisted that fda had to agree with him, that it had to be a joint undertaking. And heres the difference. Fdr, who is not only a born politician, but a natural pragmatist. Remember, its fdr who says try something, if it doesnt work, try something else. That is exactly what the person people wanted to hear after four years in which it was felt that nothing had been tried. In fact, a lot was tried, but it came very soon to be overshadowed by the scale, the scope of what fdr undertook. What were the circumstances in your life in 1984 when this book was published . Gosh, i was living in d. C. I had published a big biography of thomas dewey that he had spent a year researching. Came back to d. C. , i was writing on a consultant basis for bob dole, for whom i had worked earlier, and im very proud to say ive been associated with him over the years. I had done this book on tom dewey, who in some ways is the ultimate overlooked historical figure. The little man on the wedding cake. Someone stereo typed and written off, who turned out to have a vast vastly more interesting and consequential life. In many ways hoover was a logical sequel. I didnt think about it at that time. I had no political agenda. I had visited west branch at an adolescent and been really moved by the site, and its still moving. Youre talking about west branch, iowa . Where hoover was born and where hes buried. And the 450 yards separate the two. The birthplace is a little 14 by 20 foot, the size of the average american living room today, a little white wash cottage. And then 450 yards away on a hillside called the overlook, the very simple graves of mr. And mrs. Hoover. He made one wish known, and that was that nothing ever been planted or built that would interfere with the view. He wanted people to stand at his grave and look off at the little house where he was born and draw the conclusion that he had drawn, the fact that the circumstances of your birth in no way limited the potential of your life. 1984 when you wrote this book or when it was published, but when did you hundred the Hoover Library and museum and why . I had no idea at the time that i was planting a seed of what would be a 17year career at five president ial libraries. I was called by john faucet, who was from west branch, iowa, and was at the National Archives running the president ial library system, which was smaller in those days. And he asked me out of the blue ive never been more surprised in my life would you have any interest in being the director of the Hoover Library. And i thought immediately what a wonderful job. Now, people around me, at that point also i was working at pete wilsons office, senator from california, writing speeches. And people thought why on earth would you want to go live in west branch, iowa, population 1,800, which tells you more about them than it did about west branch. In any event, i left washington and went out and had a whale of a time. I spent six plus years learning my trade in west branch, making some friends for life. And so i did it reverse. I wrote the book, and then became director of the library. And that was the first of several. What would you say was the most significant and we only have a minute and a half the most significant thing that hoover did that is still in this country to this day . Well, you could look physically at hoover dam. It was no accident his name was put on it. Because he, as secretary of commerce, negotiated the compact with seven states, Rocky Mountain states, over the water of the Colorado River that they were all fighting over, water being dear in the west. And the result was hoover dam. Thats the most obvious physical legacy. Much more important, i would argue, however, is the example of a businessman who walked away from his fortune. He said literally he let the fortune go to hell, first to feed belgium, and then to organize american relief, and ultimately to go on to save more lives than hitler, stalin together could eliminate. Not a bad epitath. Thank you for helping us with our series of president s. The name of the book, and it is available on amazon and other places as a used book. This one, by the way, comes from a library in milford, michigan, the one that i have. The name of the book is an uncommon man the triumph of Herbert Hoover. For free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q a. Org. Programs are also available as cspan podcasts. Youre watching a special edition of history tv. 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Were going to talk about both of these sides of the story here, the tools, the techniques of slave owner power, and well also talk about the tools and techniques of power that were practiced by enslaved people. Watch history professors lead discussions with their students on topics ranging from the American Revolution to september 11th. Lectures in history on cspan3 every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv. And lectures in history is available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. The president s from public affairs, available now in paperback and ebook. Presents biographies of every president , organized by their ranking, by noted historians from best to worst. And features perspectives into the lives of our nations chief executives and leadership styles. Visit our website, cspan. Org president s. Order your copy today wherever books or ebooks are sold. This week on g a, james
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