[ applause ]. Its been a wild and wily couple of days. A lot of history packed into a very sort period of time. So i want to begin today as i did yesterday with a quote but in introduction to that quote, i want to ask anyone in here not see saving private ryan, anyone not see it . Tast ki thats kind of what i figured. For those of us that have served and particularly for those of us that have faced combat, that opening scene is something that youll never forget, ever, i hope you never forget it, but the scene most important to me actually came later in the movie. Tom hanks laying on the rubble called over private ryan, and he asked him to kneel down and he said to him two words, earn this. Any victory Worth Winning must be deserved and as the victories are increased scale so must be our exertions. Deserve victory, Winston Churchhill said. We shall not win through the evils in our enemy. We shall win through the merit in ourselves. Deserve victory. And let that be the touch stone of every thought, word and deed. Frankly, i think about that pretty much every day. Am i living up to my own expectations, let alone the expectations of others. Today were going to hear from people that deserved victory and earned it. Yesterday and the day before we heard from a lot of people that fought on the ground. Were going to hear this morning from some incredible legends that fought in the air. So it is truly my pleasure to introduce mr. Jerry burton. Jerry is a past president of the Tuskegee Airmen Association East coast chapter, former air force veteran himself. So with that, well begin todays program with mr. Jerry burton. [ applause ] thank you, everyone. Thank you. It is my honor to be in the room again with the original Tuskegee Airmen and a second p. O. W. In the room, another Fighter Pilot from world war ii. So youre going to have a special treat of gentlemen that a lot of people, one, dont even know still are around. So without further adieu, i want to make sure that you have enough time to see them all, so Lieutenant Colonel james harvey iii. [ applause ] colonel harvey, a Fighter Pilot of three wars. Next were going to have Lieutenant Colonel alexander jefferson. [ applause ]. Colonel jefferson, combat pilot, p. O. W. Colonel joseph petersburs [ applause ] colonel peterburs has a special designation with his name as well. Call him ace. He did 49 missions before becoming a p. O. W. And then some how escaped and evaded and flew with the russian army. Incredible stuff. So with that, lets give them all a round of applause, and then were going to dig into this. [ applause ] so well start on the end. Colonel harvey, colonel harvey has a special hat on. I like to see it because a lot of people think of tom cruise when they see the hat. The unfortunate part is tom cruise wasnt the first. Colonel harvey is a part of a topgun squadron. A group that went to nelis field, took their airplanes, took their maintenance group, and became topgun, the first topgun of record for the u. S. Air force. Right. Colonel harvey, if you want to tell us a little bit about yourself. What do you want the people to know about your service and about your time flying combat airplanes and then becoming a topgun . Oh, boy. I know its a long list. I never made any model air craft or anything like that, never did anything as far as air craft goes. I lived in a small town in northeastern pennsylvania called noon galla station, you can imagine how big that is. I was standing in my front yard and saw this flight of p 40s flying over, they were in formation, and i said id like to do that. And that was it. So i got into the military. I was drafted. I tried to enlist, really, in the Army Air Corps in january of 43, and they said they werent taking enlistments at that time. That was the height of the war. The reason they didnt they said that is they didnt want me in the Army Air Corps, so i was so i was went to fort meade, maryland. Took my written exam, my physical. Had a uniform issued. And went to Jefferson Barracks missouri for basic training. Finished my basic training at Jefferson Barracks, missouri. Based on my score that i had on my written test, they put me in the army air corp. Army air corp engineers. And they sent me to virginia. And my mission was to go into the jungle, doze out an area, build an airfield. I was part of the engineer battalion. And we used to go out and practice every day. I said, no, this isnt for me. I applied for Cadet Training. And there were ten of us, nine whites and myself. Two of us passed. And from there, i went to biloxi, mississippi for 30 days of basic training, more basic training. Finished there and went to tuskegee and the rest is history. Thats pretty good stuff. Thank you. A lot of times you do things and you start off not realizing how far youre going to go. Colonel alexander, i see colonel alexander is another one of those that did some things that a lot of people wouldnt expect. I know when he started he didnt figure he would write his own book. And i see the book sitting here, and the title red tail captured, red tail free. So to go to the red tail free part, i want to ask you first where did you come from, what squadron did you fly in, and then can you tell us the day you remember that you said im a p. O. W. But im going to be okay. Okay. All right. Guys and gals, ive got five minutes to talk about something that takes me two hours. Yeah. Lets start out real quick. Born in detroit, michigan. Went to Clark College in atlanta, georgia. The war is going on. I graduated in 1942. Stay with the japanese bombed pearl harbor on what date . Anybody . Okay. The United States congress made lets see, ive got to do this shortly. Congress developed the 99th squadron. They allowed blacks to fly and they said we started in 1941. I graduated in 42. The war is going on. The draft is about to get me. So rather than get drafted, i went down and volunteered for this new air corp that was just developed. I graduated in january 42. And i flew combat with the 99th. The 332nd Fighter Group, made up of blacks. All selfcontained. First of all, and i flew combat with the fighter squadron, commanded by colonel leo davis. Well get back to that. I flew combat for 19 missions, escorting the b17s from italy up into germany. We had one mission, number 19, striking. Going trying to knock out radar stations on the coast of Southern France. I got hit, the damn thing came up through the floor. I had to bail out. I bailed out in Southern France, occupied by the germans at that time. I spent nine months as a p. O. W. And half the time in poland and then germany. Liberated in 1945. Liberated. And came back to the United States, spent the rest of the time in the air force. So you can tell i put all my thoughts on paper. Its all written down from there. I tried to make it quick. I can shove stuff in there, but we dont have time. So i ended up with 9 1 2 months in germany as a p. O. W. I think its very significant that there were 32 of us blacks who were p. O. W. S in germany by the end of the war. 32 yeah. And well go from there. Thats incredible. Thats it. Incredible. Colonel petersburg. Listening to you the other the other two Tuskegee Airmen, a question came to my mind first of all were going to do the same thing and ill go back to colonel harvey. The first thing is where are you from . Where did you through training . Where was your training at . Tell us about your time as a p. O. W. The time as a p. O. W. Isnt very long. But, anyway, i was born in st. Paul, minnesota, on the 25th of november, 1924. And we moved to wisconsin and i did my formative years growing up in the milwaukee area. I had a vocation to become a priest, i went to a seminary after grade school. I was in my third year of a 12year training to priesthood and ordination. I was coming down the stairs at the gym to play pool on a sunday morning and i heard 7th of december, 1941, japanese bombed pearl harbor. I knew at that time i was going to join the service and fight for the country. So i left the seminary and on my 18th birthday, 1942, so i left the seminary and on my 18th birthday of 1942 i was accepted into the Aviation Cadet program and i did my training through the Southeast Air command alabama, georgia, florida, that area. And i graduated as a Second Lieutenant Fighter Pilot 19 years old. Went through combat training. After that the p40s and accumulated about 150 or so hours and was assigned to europe to the 55th fighter squadron. They had just converted from p38s and checked out in the p51 and got about 20 hours and started flying combat. Flew my First Mission on the 12th of december, 1944. Then flew 49 subsequent missions, the last very exciting, most of them. The last one was the most interesting. Do you want me to continue . Go ahead and give okay, and on the 49th mission we were putting up about 1,500 bombers and targets in the berlin area. My squadron was escorting some 450 b17s with an escort. We entered the area uneventful until the bombers dropped the bombs and weep got hit by a swarm of turbo jets. I was flying high cover and i observed one 262 blow up a b17. I had rolled over and started down full throttle. And came in through a 6 00 position just about the time he blew up the second b17. And he rolled over and started down to the deck and i chased him and he disappeared into some clouds. I had seen i had gotten hits on his left engine. I saw smoke and a little fire. I did follow him into the clouds. To heck with it. I saw an airfield full of german aircraft. I started strafing it. Any of you who are Fighter Pilots know youre not supposed to make too many but i was by myself at 19, 20 years old and, what the heck. I made too many passes and i destroyed at least five on the ground and set a hangar on fire. I felt a thud after a condor, the aircraft part of hitlers fleet. Anyway, i blew that and felt another thud. Got oil over the windscreen. Made it to 10,000 feet, made it back losing altitude and finally had to bail out at 3 00 feet and was captured, immediately interrogated. And went to a p. O. W. Camp after a five, sixday march through germany at which time it was just pandemonium, thousands going east and thousands of refugees going west. The german army up and down on motorcycles trying to keep some sort of sense to the pandemonium. Anyway, i got to stalin three which was mostly russian prisoners of war. This is near berlin, right outside of berlin, the prison camp and the russians fighting in berlin and security at the camp was very lax. I escaped you walked away . Walked away and started down the road and after about five or six miles i heard a rumbling and i hid in the ditch. A tank unit and i came out and fortunately the lieutenant of the russian tank unit, the lieutenant could speak english so i communicated with him. He gave me a rifle and said hop on. Were going to wittenberg. So i fought with the russian unit from berlin up to wittenberg where i was repatriated by an army patrol that came across to meet the russians. Eventually got back to paris and got stamped into laos and started back home on a convoy to europe. Got home and im anxiously waiting to get married to my fiancee, josephine, who i named my aircraft after, josephine, and in the process of doing the paperwork i had to get my moms permission to get married because i hadnt turned 21 yet. Very nice. Thats it. Very nice. You were in the northern part of germany. I was in the southern part. Where 10,000 close to 10,000 american p. O. W. S, there were a heck of a lot of, and didnt have any chance to escape because we were heavily guarded. It was heck. Wow. Colonel harvey . Germanys leading ace was in the states in 2013 looking for the pilot that shot him down. Did you make contact, by chance . I couldnt hear him. What did he say . Say your question again. Germanys leading ace was in the states in 2013 looking for the pilot that shot him down. Did you make contact, by chance . Oh, yes. Oh, yes. See, i never claimed 262. Well, by the time i got liberated and everything, the war was over and to heck with it. You didnt worry about that sort of stuff. I didnt. Got home and got married. So 60 years went by and finally through various many european researchers, swedish and norwegian and german researchers they came to the conclusion that i was the one that shot down walter shuck, a top german ace, had 206 confirmed aerial victories. He had 198 victories on the north sea area with russia. Most of those victories were against the russians and he transitioned into the turbo jet and on his First Mission he shot down three aircraft, the first time he was in the 262. And he shot down three aircraft and then he was the one that, in fact, he had on the 5th of may of 2005 we met in california, and became close friends. He was a real gentleman, and we spent the rest of his life together doing various shows and stuff. But he tells me that when he went into the clouds, he made a left turn hoping to avoid me if i tried to follow him, and he said that as soon as he started his turn his left engine disintegrated and he had to bail out, he bailed out at about 1,000 meters. And sprained both of his legs and ankles when he bailed out, so he was basically out of the war. He would say here is my friend joey. Joey saved my life, because if he got up again and had flown he would have he felt certain he would have been killed. Thats the way it was at the end of the war. Talking about how fortunate you were to be able to go out, i had to bail out, i thought about it while you were talking, out of all my years of training, never had one minute on, quote, how to bail out. You bailed out of 51 . 51. You bailed out of the right side. Are you kidding . No. I bailed out of the left side. Ill be damned. Our job was to knock out radar stations on the coast right on the shores of Southern France. Later on i found out these radars controlled the guns around Southern France, the harbor of Southern France. Well, came in about 15,000. We dove in. I think we indicated about 250 miles an hour. And went right across the top of these radars, huge towers with a lot of buildings underneath where the machinery is going on at about 200 feet, boom. And as i went along, fire came up out of the floor. Darned thing hit the square. How do i get off this. Finally decided real quickly full power, pull up, and i think i may have gotten to about 1,000 feet. At the same time down on the left side a little wheel and it controlled the flaps back and forth. Pulled a little red lever and the canopy popped off. As i was going up, less and less, i got to about 1,000 feet, i think it was 1,000 feet, i dont know. And turned the stick loose and quite naturally the nose dropped abruptly. I hit the big buckle and threw me out. And i remember the tail going by nice and slow and easy. But they told you if you bail out, you count one, two, three, and then you pull the dring and a parachute will deploy. Well, heck, i came out and saw the tail go by and i looked down thinking i saw trees, oh abruptly you pull the dring and, bang, the parachute opened and i swung down and hit a tree. Well, all of a sudden i heard a voice, real german occupied, quote [ speaking Foreign Language ] i said, oh, hell. My nine months in germany started right there in Southern France for about a week and with two or three german soldiers escorting me out of germany. On that same mission, we lost one guy, joe gordon was killed, nathan was a prisoner, daniels was a prisoner, i was a prisoner, and one other guy. We lost five men on that one mission. What we later found out controlled the guns firing off the coast, and maybe it was one guy, a p. O. W. And three or four guys p. O. W. S. Wow. Spent the rest of the time hungry, but as a p. O. W. We existed. Ill leave it there. Later on go into the book. Very good. Colonel harvey, i was going back to you, and you asked a question of the panel. But i want to give you a chance first of all, we want to know where youre from, first. I didnt do that at the original outset. And then, two, im curious flying so long with the military what airplanes are you were you actually qualified in to fly . Out of all those, throughout those years, what airplanes . Where are you from, what airplanes . Oh, like i said before, im from a small town in northeastern pennsylvania, and we were the only black family out there. And so there wasnt any prejudice whatsoever. I got along fine with everybody. I was the only black in the school, the high school. We didnt have the only sports we had were tumbling and basketball. I was the anchor man on the tumbling team, captain of the Basketball Team and my senior year was class president and valedictorian. I was treated just like any other person. Like i said, the only when i noticed or was subject to subjected to segregation is when i took the train from 44th pennsylvania to ft. Meade, maryland, and we stopped in washington, d. C. We had a twohour layover on the way to ft. Meade. I got off the train, went and had breakfast, came back, went to get back in the car that i was in and they said no, you ride in the car where negros ride. Welcome to the south. Your introduction, in other words, to segregation and discrimination. That was my introduction to segregation. But i didnt let it bother me. The way i looked at it, i dnd have the problem, they had the problem. I did what i had to do to accomplish what i had to accomplish. Like i said before, i went to Engineering School at ft. Belvoir and didnt care for that. Applied for Cadet Training and was accepted. Off to tuskegee i went. And the rest is history. Give us a list of airplanes youre qualified in. Aircraft im qualified in, well, in primary we flew the pt19. Made by fairchild. A lowwing plane. And then in basic we flew the standard bt13, also known as the vibrator. And then advanced the at6. We finished advanced training we got ten hours at tuskegee and i got my ten hours there and to South Carolina for combat training and there we were flying the b40 and later switched to the b47. And when i finished combat training in april of 45, i had my bags packed and then catching the train to go to norfolk to get on a ship to go over and join the 332nd and we got a message saying to hold us, the war in italy was over and they were expecting to wind up the whole european theater, which they did in may. Hitler gave up the following month of may, so i would have been on the high seas. So i didnt make it overseas to join the group. During that time the germans had very good intelligence, excellent intelligence. Hitler knew i was coming. Thats why he gave up. And then we got b47s and then when since i didnt go over i joined the 99th in kentucky and they had p47s so i flew p47s up until the time of integration and that was in june of 49. They scattered us all over the world. Eddie drummond and i, another pilot in the 99th, were assigned to a Fighter Group in japan. Now before we departed our file had been forwarded to the Wing Commander. In there was our picture. So the Wing Commander called all the pilots into the base theater and said we have these two negro pilots coming in, theyll be assigned to one of the squadrons. The pilots told us this themselves. They said, no way are we going to fly with them. No way. Anyway, Eddie Drummond and i reported in to the Wing Commander. We were talking in his office. And he said what do you want us to call you . I said, well, im a first lieutenant. Eddie drummond is a Second Lieutenant. How about lieutenants harvey and drummond . And he said, okay. But then he made a mistake. He said we have three fighter squadrons on the base, two p51 squadrons and an f80 squadron. Which squadron do you want to go to . I go backwards. I said f80. So he put us both in the f80 squadron. Now they didnt have any t33s which is a trainer version of the f80, but they had an at6. Thats what we flew in advance. In the back seat theres a hood that you can pull up and you cant see out. So what they had us do, they had me get in the back seat and the pilot up front, which was one of them, they got instructions for taxi and takeoff and lined up on the runway, okay, you have it. So im in the back seat under the hood, apply the throttle down the runway, pull up the gear, all that good stuff. Fly around doing the maneuvers he wants me to do then contact Ground Control approach and vector in for a landing. Touched down on the runway and the pilot up front took over. Now what does that have to do with flying the f80 . Nothing. I think they wanted to see if we could fly, period. And we proved we could. So i checked out in the f80. So i was combat ready in the f80 and then after leaving japan in between leaving japan and going to victorville, california, i flew missions in korea, got 126 in the f80. Went to victorville, california, and they had the f86. So i checked out in the f86 and flew the f86 a, f, and e models. I was combat ready in that aircraft. The f80, f86, and then i checked out in the f89 and i got two missions in that. Then checked out in the f94. I got one mission in that. And then i ended up as Operations Officer of an f102 squadron in the 71st in michigan and thats the f102 is the big delta dart, wing. Very fast, supersonic on the deck. People ask me which is my favorite aircraft and i say the f102 because Fighter Pilots like speed. And it will go supersonic on the deck, like i said. So those are the aircraft i flew. Each of the aircraft, the military aircraft fighters that i flew i was combat ready in. And i had a good life. An excellent life. I enjoyed it, every minute of it. Thats good. The list of legendary airplanes, a lot of people have to now go back and look at the tape and look at the list and pull those pictures up of those airplanes, and youll see that not all of them performed the same way. You had to have certain skills in certain airplanes especially the delta dart. Like to go fast but then how are you going to slow down . So the one question i want to ask, and then were going to separate were going to split this im going to get about one or two questions from the audience, so those that have it prepared and ready, first of all, you need to speak lout loud so we can hear you down here. While were getting ready for the young people to ask a question, i want to give you the opportunity a couple minutes each to address the young people and let them know what do you think they are as where you left it . So do you think that you are leaving this legacy of your aviation career in good hands with the young people in the audience . Im sure there are a lot of prospective pilots in the audience maybe, a lot of uniforms so they have some interest in military in their future. Ill allow to you give them a little bit and then if we can get one or two from the audience that have a question, then well address well come back to you. So well start with colonel peterburs. Well, no, i think we have a set of standards for a different area. You are in a new universe than we lived in. Ive realized its very difficult to associate, just like i went to the 100 d anniversary of my unit last year and theyre flying f22s. I went into the simulator and its just not the flying. We are fly by the seat of your pants generation and you are in entirely different. The one thing that i think whatever your endeavor is, you do your best. You cant do more than the best. You do your best and you strive to do your best. If you do your best, the rest of it the promotions and the jobs and that sort of stuff will come in. But that would be my best. Just get an objective and do your best to achieve it. Become selfactualized. Colonel alexander . Sitting here thinking you guys and gals where we were, you flew f86s and our f22s the f35 and completely new world. But theres been a transition from where you were. I was a tuskegee, i was a reserve officer and i accompanied four people through the air force academy adviser. And today is so much advance. But its so productive. Very productive. Do the best you can. Be a nerd. Seriously. Sit on the front seat in class. You ever see guys walk in and the first thing they do, they go to the back of the room and sit at the back. Be a nerd, sit on the front seat. The teacher is trying to give you this knowledge, transfer this knowledge to you. And if you sit too far back like me, you cant hear it. Life is so exciting. Today from what it was 70 years ago. Take advantage of it. Be a nerd. Thats my advice. Outstanding. I have to get a patch with that on there. Colonel harvey . Ill let you in on a secret why the Tuskegee Airmen were so good. Each one of us wanted to be the best. So if you get all those bests together, youve got quite an organization, which we had. Now who was the best of all those pilots . It depends on who is telling the story. Right now i am. Thats perfect. Sir, i see you standing near the microphone. If you could give us your name, your school and then ask your question. Yes, sir. Im from miami university. Good morning, gentlemen. Other than trying to be as excellent as possible and trying to get the best job you possibly can done, what are some specific qualities or traits thats essential to have for a combat pilot . Specific qualities, qualities or traits that youre going to need to be a fighter or combat Fighter Pilot. Who wants to take it first . Be a badass. [ applause ] exactly. Its true. Your answer may be a short one but we have a consensus. No, seriously. Yes, sir, name and school . Yes, sir. Vanderbilt university. The air on the bottom of the wing, the wind goes straight through. Its not affected. But by going up and down a little bit, it produces a pull, lift. You have to go a certain speed going through the air to make that air go up and come down. Lift. Take off the speed about plane ordinary airplane about 90, 95. If it goes below that, 70, you dont get the lift. Thats why the airplane stalls. Youd be surprised doing little experiments in a classroom we have fun producing lift. Understanding why that airplane has to go 90 miles an hour or 100 to produce that air going across the top lift. Part of my life was teaching science. Improving youngsters with this attitude i am the best s. O. B. In the world. Because life is great. Life is great. Youd better enjoy it because nobody else can make you feel the way i feel. Good. Colonel harvey, what was your profession once you left the military . I stayed in the military and retired in may of 65. I had four daughters i had to raise and then i had my wife, of course. So i needed a job, so united was in town interviewing so i applied for united. He said you meet all our qualifications except one. We have a cutoff of 35. I said okay. So i retired in madison, wisconsin. At that time that was the home office for oscar mayer. I interviewed with oscar mayer, and this was in may of 65 when i interviewed. I interviewed for about a week with everybody just shy of oscar himself. They said youre hired. When do you want to go to work . I said i retire the 31st of may and id like a week off. They said, okay. Report the 7th of june. So i reported the 7th of june to oscar mayer, and at that facility they had slaughter through the completion of all their products, so my training was the slaughter through the end, a threemonth program. One month into the program and they needed a salesman in northeastern new jersey. So they sent me there. So i was a salesman for three years in northeastern new jersey, and then i was transferred to detroit, michigan, as a district manager. Then i was transferred to philadelphia to the plant as an assistant Sales Manager and then, during this time at the philadelphia plant, oscar mayer held marketing conferences and in my position at the plant i was eligible to attend these marketing conferences. So in 71 we had a marketing conference at disneyworld and disneyworld hadnt completely opened yet. The polynesian village was open and thats where we had our conference. The last day of the Conference Im sitting in the dining hall by myself in a booth, and the president of oscar mayer comes in and he says may i join you . I said, yes. And we started talking. And he said we started talking about promotions. He said we sent a guy to seattle who was previously in the western region, and he knew our operation very well, so thats why we sent him up there. The opening in Salt Lake City we didnt send you there because of the mormons and the blacks, it just doesnt work. And he said where would you like to go . I said, well, id like to go to denver, but i know the Center Manager in denver doesnt want to leave, and that was it. In april of 72 i got a call from headquarters in madison, wisconsin, and they said go to los angeles for an interview for a job in denver. So i went to los angeles, passed the interview, and was assigned to denver. Now the Center Manager in denver was transferred to st. Louis, missouri. It was a larger distribution center. Anyway, my crew in denver was ten salesmen, two district managers, two secretaries, and three others and the company would send products in. I would keep in my cooler and we would fill our orders for the stores and supermarkets out of the cooler. I was in that job for seven years and retired from oscar mayer 14 years, retired in may of 1970. I put in 14 years with them. So i went from flying airplanes to selling wieners. [ laughter ] it was a good job, though. But he was the same, etches the best. Right. [ applause ] all right, colonel peterburs, if you could give us well, my profession was the military. When i retired, i spent 36 years, 5 months active duty and now im 40 years retired. Wow. I was able to be active duty. Theres our range. After i got out i got my masters and then i did a little but i didnt want much to interfere with my retirement. There you go. Thats music to my ears, by the way. Yes, sir, colonel harvey . During my whole life, youngster all the way through until i got married, i was a perfectionist and theres nothing a perfectionist cannot do. And washing out in flying school never entered my mind. Perfectionists can do everything. And then i got married. [ laughter ] i had to put that on hold and when my wife passed away back to my old procedures. I did not have a worry going through flying school. That never entered my mind that i was going to wash out. Thats the way i am today. applause before you leave i wanna let you know youre not the only guy i got out of the out air force, as did i. When i talk to kids i tell them that im the only guy youll ever meet that was in the mobile. That eye to worked out of philadelphia in pennsylvania but i was down in washington d. C. For oscar mayer and the sixties so we cross paths and i remember meeting in florida in disney world and it hadnt finished yet. Small world. Yes it is. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen history on two feet. applause country for lek schurs ctures i. Jeremy kinney is a curator who shows us some of the museums prayer and oneof
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