congress. listen on the go with the free c-span radio app. recently representatives from minority and community organizations shared their concerns around the 2020 census with the house overnight and reform committee. they discussed the citizenship question, internet access, language barriers as well as counting certain populations like the homeless, ex-offenders and tribal communities. the hearing also addressed how census numbers impact education, health care, and infrastructure programs. this is four hours.nize >> without objection the chair a is authorized to declare recesse of the committee at any time.ill with that i will now recognize myself to give an opening here t statement and the same will be given to the ranking member. good morning and thank you to everyone for being here today to discuss a topic which is vital n to our democracy. the 2020 census is imminent with counting set to begin in alaska in less than two weeks and across the country on april 1. the constitution requires every counted, every single person living in the united states of america, not just absolucitizens, not just of a particular political party race, absolutely everyone. i am gravely concerned that thee census bureau may not be prepared to meet this high bar and that the 2020 census could leave communities across the country under-counted, wh under-represented and ereunde under-funded. the government accountability office and department of mp, commercece inspector general bo agree that the census is not where it should be. sadly, under president trump we are forced to ask whether the failure to address these concerns is due to incompetence or is intentional. the census bureau has been ted. plagued by delays in hiring thousands of census workers to m ensure every person is counted.d these delays hurt hard to count. communities. the most because outreach from trusted voices and nonresponse follow-up are essential in thesn communities. the administration's to anti-immigrant policies and its illegal effort to add a citizenship question have made s an accurate count even harder to obtain by sowing fear and distrust in communities across a theti country.s but this appears to be the point as republicann operative thomas h haufler, the so-called mike otea angelo ofdv redistricting put i adding a citizenship question would be and i quote n from himy quote advantageous for t republicans and non-hispanic whites, end quote. count ultimately the administration's goal in trying to add a citizenship question seems to be to take the hard to count and make them the uncounted.. iqu introduced a bill last year, the census idea act to remove the citizenship court question and codify the processd in which questions are added to the census form. when the supreme court ruled the attempt to add the citizenship y question was illegal, the administration refused for almost two weeks to accept the outcome before finally following the law.data. even still the president is trying to use administrative record to collect citizenship data. but this has nothing to do withy the 2020 census. the census bureau needso to mako clear that everyone can participate in the census without fear, that doing so will not hurt them oros theirt familt and thates their personal data will be secure. in the census bureau also faces a host of new challenges as it executes the largest census in history and the first to be conducted almost mostly and ace entirelyss online. cyber threats, limited broadband access, reduced language he assistance and gaps in outreachn efforts all threaten the success of the census. data from the census will determine the apportionment of r every seat in the house of representatives. and the allocation of roughly $1.5 trillion in federal ing funding.ssential an undercount means fewer federal dollars for communitiesi that need the most. including for essential public rervices like medicaid, children's health, insurance, foster care and schools.resented and undercare would also mean less representation at these or, communities at every level of s government. if you're not counted, you're not represented. instates including to californin and my home state of new york are trying to fill the gaps in . the census bureau's efforts to reach hard to count communitiess i applaud these efforts and urge every state to do the same.mo thest bureau should coordinate with these states so that lear limited resources can be used most effectively and efficiently. to beng hard clear, i believe b career civil servants of the hey census bureau are working hard l to achieve the mission of a now complete and accurate census. but they need help, and they sl need itd quickly. our witnesses today know these hard to count communities better than anyone. we should value their expertise and pay heed to their recommendations, and i know i s will. in november 2018 my predecessor, our beloved chairman elijah noni cummings, vowed that ensuring af fair, accurate and nonpartisan census would be a top priority of the oversight committee on his watch. and he was good to his word.so, and as chairwoman, i intend to honor that commitment. so i want to thank everyone for coming, and i look forward to their testimony, and i would now like to call on jimmy gomez for one minute. >> thank you, chairwoman. the as we all know today's hearing r is not a theoretical exercise.o the 2020 census is just days 000 away, and the threat of an undercount is real. the last census failed to count more than 750,000 latinos, more thani' 750,000 african-americann and more than 50,000 american indians and in native alaskans. i'm very concerned that we e will -- could see an even bigger undercount in 2020. many americans are fearful and mistrustful of their government, and overcoming that fear and mistrust requires a massive mobilizationsc effort we haven. never seen before.n the but the census bureau appears to be far behind schedule. m an undercount will have an th cr impact on the opportunities available to the people in thesl communities. it will mean more people going without health care, fewer rursm for child care, affordable ple. housing and less money for local schools. as a committee and a congress our message should be simple, v everyone must be counted. i'm grateful to each of our witnessess here today not just for assisting the committee but for your tireless advocacy to ensure members of your communities are counted fairly e and accurately as the my constitution requires, and with that i yield back. we >> the chair now recognizes the ranking member. >> i thank the chair before giving the opening statement madam b chairroug when we last r brought up theep scathing repor that inspector general horowitzy and the justice department w brought last month, a report where even former fbi director d jim comey on national televisioi had to say that he was wrong in his defense of the fbi and how a they handled the fisa application process in the trump-russia investigation. you indicated you would let us have mr. horowitz gentl in front ofem this committee. understand he pointed out 17 anfferent times -- >>sw i thank the gentleman. >> we're still is waiting for at answer, madam chair. >> i'd love to givee you an ce answer. the purpose of this hearing is u one, the census, and i apprecia th persistencertunity on this issue. rep before the inspector general's e report was released to the public all members of the heersight committee had the opportunity to readld the reporn and attend a briefing with the office of the inspector general. the senate judiciary committee i held att hearing on the inspectn general's report on december 11th. the senate committee on homelanb security followed with its own hearing on december 18th. theab inspector general testifi in both of these hearings and answered numerous questions about the report, so i deeply appreciate the ranking member's request and i wrote him a letter on december 6th. at this point i don't think another hearing is necessary, e and i look forward to -- stitue >>nt so madam chairman -- the >> we can work together to r improve the lives of our constituents. >> so madam chairman why don't we have a census hearing over in the senate, then if we're alwayp going to rely on the senate to have these hearings? >> the gentleman is not russia recognized. >> well, then i haveit cou a po order. then i'll have 1, a point of or and i'll be glad -- ua >>lly recite your point of ordee >> rule 11 cause 2-j section 1 actually talks about minority hearings. and one of the issues we've hadk madam chairwoman is that we believe this committee needs to be doing their oversight counc function. i bring up jack evans. we've had jack evans resign frog the d.c. council. it was the previous chairman along with mr. conally and i that expressed concern about rq proper oversight -- a >> will the gentleman cite yourt point of order?pe >> therly point of order is und that rule we have the and requirement for a minority of hearing of which was not noticee properly and was ambiguous at best and did not get to the fbld heart of. the matter because it was not conducted. and if the chairman is going tod argue the minority -- - >> they will respond to your point of order. we had a minority day of hearingsgs on the d.c. -- >> i would -- f >> you're claiming my time -- p >> no, i wouldoint appeal the rg of the chair.d >> there is no a ruling. there is no point of order. >> is my point of order out of order or not? >> you have not stated a point of order. >> my point of order is you violated the rule by not having a minority hearing that was properly -- >> we had a of minority hearing. you are out of order.ou re-claiming my time. >> i appeal the ruling of the chair. i have that right. i promise you i have that right. >> for a minority hearing on a minority hearing that we alreadm had on d.c. -- >> has mr. evans been here? we >> mr. evans was invited to come along with others that were requested by -- >> then i make the motion we subpoena. >> they did nototion come and i not up to me to get them to come. you invited a guest -- >> you're the chairman. i would make a motion we s subpoena jacktate evans and cono oversight. >> the gentleman has not statedr a proper point of order. >> well, the gentleman has stated a proper point of order.e now whether she wants to rule on it or not i can assure the parliamentarian i will be glad to go back and forth with her -- >> the partmentarian says it's not a proper point of order. the gentleman has not stated a r proper point of order. it is the ranking member's time. the ranking member is recognized for his opening statement. >> it's your time, mr. ranking member. >> well, let me go back to -- we've got lots of concerns, madam chair, let's just be commt honest. and not only with the fact that mr. evans has stepped down and we've yet to have hemip front of this committee but also as i raised earlier the issue of mr.i horowitz reports which 17 different times the fbi misled the fisa court -- let me just read something. aboututr talked the senate having hearings but i t thought this committee which has oversight for every single inspector general for our government, and we're talking now about theshe say justice det inspector general, this is what the fisa order for the court e judge, what she had to say after mr. horowitz report last month. the frequency of which representations made by fbi e personnel turned out to be min unsupported or contradicted by -- ensus. >> the gentleman -- excuse me, ranking member. you are recognized for an h, my opening statement on the census. >> the time is mine, madam. d >> oh, myurin gosh.h. >> andnd all i know during your opening statement the time w didn't even run.n. youco told me you were going toc give us the same opportunity during our opening statement. let me go back before i was interrupted and read judge colliers statement. theontradic frequency of which representations made by fbi personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by r information in their possessioni and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case calls into question whetheo information contained in other fbi applications is reliable.sth let's puter that in plain engli. they lied so much to the fisa court the judge is saying how can we trust otherof representations you have made to this court?the thet's what she said. after mr. horowitz's report and to date the chair doesn't even c want to have a hearing. the chairman's response was, oh, the senate had a couple of wharings, that's good enough. even though this committee has n jurisdiction over every b inspector general in the in government. that's whyor we want mr. horowitz s here for a hearing. diffe we brought then inspector been generals after a big report.hera but i guess things are different. i guess things are different. mr. evans should have been herey mr. horowitz should have been here already. unfortunately, obviously the chairwoman is not going to do oi that. with mygh remaining time i do ws to address the situation of the census. oversight ofh the census is one ur of this committee's core responsibilities. however, iiad worrymini since l january democrats have been much more focused on using our itus. attack the trump administration on on addressing fundamental good government and oversight like preparedness for the census. the census determines the seats in the house and provides crucialalfo details about the s vitality and mobility of our whw population. this data serves ase in the the researchers and st stattitians to better understane trends in american life.n, cyb in 2018 alone republicans convened five hearings or briefings about theun census. we looked at important topics and we sought to understand how the bureau was getting ready fos the first census that will allot people to submit responses online. but rather than cucking similar on ning tl oversights the democrats have spent a year trying to stop one simple question. are you hearing a citizen? one question. since obtaining the majority inl 2019 the democrats have t only held one hearing on the 2020 t n census.tow they did not focus on the census citizenship question, just one. after all these months i it qut still do not understand why democrats don't want to know how many u.s. citizens are living is the united states? ask it's a question been on our census before, asked by numerous nations around the world and a question the united nations d encourages to ask. and frankly if you go to our constituents and ask them shoule you ask whether a person is citizen the person on the street would say of course, aren't we already doing that?d to ass and you would have to say yes, wee, we've been doing it for 200 years until now. democrats basically argue the o question to scare in an attempt to undercount those population. that's notncludi correct. the census conducted a test last summer and found there was no difference, no difference in etn self-response between forms with and forms without a citizenshipt question. let me say that again.. in there was no difference in self-response rates between forms with and forms without a citizenship question. inin julycl of 2019 following au supreme court decision the trumt administration removedo the beu citizenship question of riate inclusion of the 2020 census. as the democrats want you to believe this was because the question was fundamentally posht, but in fact the supreme court held the trump administration had the authority to askra theti question aboutve citizenship on the question butt took issueo with the administration's process for ad doing so under administrative law. i hope that today we can stop playing partisan games, get bacy to the fundamental oversight that is needed to accomplish tht census and stay the goal to count everyone once, only once and in the right place. bac we should ensure the census doee its best to count everyone. thank you, madam chair. hav i look forward to hearing from our witnesses and would yield back. >> thank you.ard to i would like to introduce your witnesses. have a richleged toto diversity of witnesses who can testify regarding their hard to count communities. anita gupta is a the president r of theecto leadership conferenc civil and human rights. john yang is the president and e executive director of the asian-american advancing justice. arturo vardas is the chief executive officer of the educational fund. the chief executive officer of the national congress of american indians and mark moriad is the president and chief th executive officer of the national urban league. darren ward is the executive aie director for the center of soutb georgia regional impact at valdosta state university. and if you all please rise and raise your right hand i'll begin by swearing you in. do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth ft and nothing but the truth so help you god?es are let the record show that the witnesses answered in the and affirmative. thank you and please be seated.t the microphones are sensitive, so please speak directly into a them. and without objection your r written statement will be made part of the record.ber and with that, ms. gupta, you hc are notom recognized for your opening statement.thank thankyo you.ders >> chairwomanhip maloney, rankih member jordan, and members of sn the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify today.cil and thank you chairwoman maloney, for calling this. m theoe imp leadership conference civil and human rights believes a fair and accurate census is among the most important civil rights issues of our day. not only is the census central to apportioning political power but the data also influences te significant federal funding for services like schools, fire departments and hospitals. e it is the bedrock of our 0 cens democracy and has enormous impact on the nation's ability i ton ensure equal treatment undes law. the 2020 census is likely to be the largest, most difficult mut enumeration in our nation's history. the u.s.hallen population is di geographically, culturally. andd even with careful planning the bureau has historically renr undercounted certain communities in the omcensus,e notably people color, young children, people rt experiencing homelessness and os renters. and for someiv populations, forh example, young children under the age of 5 the undercount has grown progressively worse. now additional populations such as rural c residence or older r americans may experience increased vulnerability because of the first hi-tech census. households may not participate in the census for reasons ttempt including mistrust of enship government, limited language access,, data confidentiality concerns and lingering fear following thee failed attempt t add a citizenship question to st the f census. hard to count communities are in every state and district from dd large urban areas to rural and remote communities including american indian tribal lands and reservations. and that's why the leadership census drived nation counts to . drive through a network of trusted messengers and complement and strengthen census bureau efforts. together we're training and educating community leaders nd about the census, translating ln materials the bureau will not ., and ensure they're serving bestp population.t our state action network works with coalitions in all 50 states and d.c. to rechart and count populations and encourage them to participate in the census. c we are grateful to congressional leaders for your bipartisan efforts in 2019 to ensure for the 2020 dingng census andnd use the additional funding to meet the goals set by congress. the window of opportunity to cet ensure ahe successful census in. all communities is closing fastt and we urge the committee and the census bureau to closely y track and address the following concerns. first thei.t. r bureau has to me challenges of the first hi-tech census by ensuring i.t. readiness anddriesing the many digital divide, cyber attacks and disinformation campaigns. the bureau must update congress on thelition status of system readiness at time when many a people are fearful and skeptican ofal government security. further ourur coalition has observed intentional efforts tot supress. under pressure from the preying leadership conference, other civil rights groups and congress tech companies have started to fight disinformation and ensuret these policies are strictly enforced. targeting communications and advertising outreach to hard to count kmubts is also really critical and we have concerns right now. stakeholders are concerned about the bureau's paid media plan it isn't robust enough to do full outreej and encourage participation. the articipabureau's 2020 censu partnership program will play an essential role in building it's trust, raising awareness in then census and thets bureau has to t provide more n information to hp congress and stakeholders determine whether it's's on tra to meet the program's stated goal including its number of partnerships. and lastly the bureau has to have accessible physical presence in hard to count itiati communities. stakeholdersve urgently need mo information and an employment plan on the bureau's proposed re questionnaire assistant center s initiative. with $90 million provided by our congress thee bureau needs to hire more staff and provide a ii largerbl footprint to be effective. when people --d when your constituents are not counted in the census they remain invisible for the next ten years and thers are no do overs. we have to get it right the ou r first time. thank you. thi >> thank you.ricans mr. yang?dvan >>cing thank you very much chairwoman maloney, ranking e ci member jordan and thank you all forca san hosting this hearing. asian-americans advancing nent c justice includes community partners, over 160 in 33 states and the district of columbia. we maintain a permanent census program thatab monitors issues related to the census, outreach to our community regarding the issues and educating about these important issues.luding we have also served for the census bureau on numerous com community advisor committees o sincether 2000 including most nd recently a two, three year term stint on race, ethnicity and racece. populations. we're one of the cochairs for the leadership census task ortat force. why with this next and the ability r of the censusity to reach this community. it's important to talk about why our community is important.s it's a growing minority group and growing by 46% since the 2000 sen s since 2010 and shame growing by similars rates since 2010. now although there's a model minority that asian-americans as are largely educated and exceed average edc incomes the reality isat many iw our community suffer significand gaps with respect to income andr education. it is only through accurate inir census data can we understand this rapidly and changing demographic and the need for we this community. now what the administration proposed to add the citizenship question without any testing we away we had a five alarm fire. and although we put out that t fire through litigation totoli successfully prevent that ime question from appearing on the . 2020 census we know that damage has been done. like any fire the damage that is done takes time for it to be ay repaired. giving immigrants and immigrant families to respond to the s thcomplicated. the tining anti-immigrant rhetoric we see, this task has become formidable. there's significant confusion about the administration's nt t intent and the census bureau has been limited in response to these challenges.sia second, there's still severe gec gaps thatov need to be overcome. with respect to the online response option the only asian o languages covered are chinese, t vietnamese and japanese.onal l and significantly there's no nv written response option ine r ln languages other than english and spanish. and although there are languagel assistance guides there's no hs coverage for native hawaiian ad pacific islander languages and other important island languages. among the barriers that have ad been encountered is the emphasib on online applications, backlogs on background checks and insufficient outreach to our communities with respect to jobi opportunities. only recently thes bureau announced the ability to hire census takers and although this is clearly favorable to serve io our demographic the fact it came so latete minimizes the potential benefits this brings. like wise field offices and partnership specialists need toc be trained adequately to ensure they provide consistent responses to different questions about sebs census policy. thus far we have seen from the t weeld that too's often inconsistent responses have been provided. fu communications campaign ms. gupta alluded to, that's anb importantri role. we only recently understood in e december and just yesterday the census bureau briefed us specifically on the argete asian-american plans in this respect. now previously one of our concerns had been the lack of any media campaign targeted to south asianan community. and chairwoman maloney and the representative have addressed this concern. just yesterday the nderst bureau provided some outreach so we seevelopes that a favorable development but we need to understand more details what that media campaigt would entail. nevertheless we also remain vera concerned by the limit number of languages provided in the media campaign and the apparent lack of microtargeting of communities other than the five asian languages of which online responses would be accepted. we believe this approach is icaa insufficient to address these communications issues while english proficient would receiv. messages better ethnically and culturally tailored. ver we appreciate the efforts that have been made so far but there is more work to be done. thank you very much. ma >> thank youda verym much. >> madam chairman. >> mr. vargas is recognized. >> madam a ddchairman, i have an unanimous -- i just wanted to add something to the record by unanimous consent. i'm sorry? >> the gentleman can enter whatever he'd like.es >> i thank the chair. i just hadglish some correspondc between myself and mr. dillingham on the practice of a hiring people i ask it be is entered into the record at this time. >> without objection. >> i thank thehe>> chair. >> all right, mr. vargas is regt recognized. >> thank you chairwoman maloney, ranking member jordan and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity ts appear before you today with d ungard to census 2020 preparations. lowde low education fund also hl been an c advisory to the censu bureau since 2000 and we are preparing to undertake a massive independent campaign to promotee a full count in the 2020 censusu i'd like to stress we respect the work of the census bureau, a and as a national partner are coordinating for a successful he census. i'd also likekepopu to share my growing antipathy for the term growing hard to count populations when in fact what e makes people hard to count are the remuneration strategies the census bureau uses. extensive remarks to the n committee and there are three id would likey to underscore todayh one there has been damage done by the citizenship question debs occul and remedy is needed. the ipbureau's 2019 research shs there's past heightened sensiti among several groups withciti as citizenship question. all our research from the rhode island end to endnd test for thr past three months also showed the citizenship debacle has te created and continues to fostert doubt. latinos refuse to by participate in the census towar because they believe there willt ous a citizenship question on te form despite its absence and many fear how the data would be used. our research also shows the census bureau has a trusted brand and we believe it should o use its favorable perception it holds to deliver credible t messages about the content on the 2020 census form. mus however, we have observed that n staff have been instructed not o to discuss then citizenship question. the census020 bureau outreach sf must be directed to advise the a public there will bend the no rn citizenship question on the 2020 census. we are impressed the bureau ande contractors understand the rea challenge. yet we are deeply concerned then latino outreach i approach is almost exclusively in spanish, and there's no specific campaige to reach latinos who consume information in english. we'll do all we can to fill these gaps but the task of the repairing the damage -- two, tht census bureau should prepare fos a significant demand for a paper form, ensure the online response option is effective and implement an effective end assistance program.hows our research shows latinos knos prefer to respond to the census using paper or online. our end to end assessment also showed that many luteen oz participated in the test through end person enumeration.nd thus the census bureau must be n adequately prepared totl providc paper form to all who prefer this response mode and ensure r they're sufficientlyes preparede skill and culturally competent work force. manyny ss latinos expressed a preference to participate online and data showed they're most ith likely to access the internet and must ensure the online rovie response mode is user-friendly and with aniline capacity to meet the demand.p the bureau needs to act quickly for a well thought asince out questionnaire program which 200 congress has funded. three their exists a design flaw in the collection of his panic or gender race data.f one aspect of the 2020 census r that has not received adequate congressional oversight is the failure to organize collection data. our research reveals there is significant confusion among latinos about how to answer the 2020 census hispanic origin andt racey questions. the census bureau recognizes the two person approach to collecting data and data it's a, used since 1880 is flawed. researchers have warned using a two question design the 2020 someme ould show that other race, unquote, would be the world's second largest racial group, a category that is not even recognized. nearly all would have indicated there are hispanic. the census bureau carried out ac research and consultation earned process to develop a better way. the bureau recommended a en combined question approach for 2020. in early 2018 we learned the f c bureau's recommendation had been gathering dust to omb's inaction. congress must investigate nswer inaction and the future of collection of race and ethnicite data. americans will not understand how to answer the cr 2020 questions on hispanic data origin and a race. t many will leave the question or both questions blank compromising the quality of data and increasing costs. fla the census bureau's communications program must include information on how to complete these questions to overcome the design flaws. again, thank you for the opportunity to share our comments with the committee. i look forward to your questions. >> good morning, chairwoman maloney, ranking member jordan and members of the committee. i'm a traveled citizen of the community in wisconsin.holing t i'm also the chief executive nt officer of the national congress for american indians on behalf n of mca i thank you for holding 0 the hearing in reaching hard to count kmubts in the upcoming 2020 census. i'm the son of a woman who grew up on a hard to reach indian reservation in the '40s, '50s, u and early '60s.s.and 50e grandson of the chairman of a tribe whos raised these any. concerns in late '50s and early s.0 my grandfather interacted with this organization about this topic and many.eated and it's the oldest and largest national organization serving io then and broad interest of trib. nations and communities. tribalcai nations created it ino response that threatened the existence. since thenorical str they'veuc i theserve the treaty, advance the government to government et relationship and remove historical structure impediments to self-determination. there's been much success yet there's much more work to do for indian country to fully realize the promises this nation made, l this body of congress made and this country owes to indian and country in its treaty and trust responsibilities. like all c other governments tribal nations strive to build e stronger economies and ensure the health and well-being of their citizens, a full and thi accurate count in the census isd absolutely vital to these efforts. 2020 census data will do three e important things.l pro whether american indians and alaskan natives have an equal r voice and are accurately reppedc in an american political process, whether there's fair distribution in communities riba across thel united states and r whether tribalal nations have accurate data for programmatic and resource making materials that are central. given the importance of census data the prospect of yet another undercount of american indians and algsen natives is deeply concern. especially onhe reservations an in villages in alaska have been historically underrepresented io this census.ndercoun in 2010 the u.s. census bureau estimates american indians and alaskan natives living on reservations clo or in these nd villages were ianundercounted bt 4.9%. that's more than double the undercount of the next close population group.ion l it is a fact american indian and native populations are the hardest to count.ribute not only does a significant portion ofhard our population l in these hard to count tracts, we also exhibit many of the t factors that contribute to indiunities being hard to count. additionally a census bureau atn survey in our own message t, testing found issues affecting a american indian and alaskan native census participation to t be including mistrust of government, concerns related to privacy and perses tharticipati not lead to anything. as it stands today tribal nations are concerned we will again see an undercount in 2020. the decision of the census focus efforts on enumeration is tru significant risk.ces as many communities and nd and individual households in indianc country do not have access to the internet. this strategy along with the need for trusted voices on the ground indicate how critical it is for census bureaus to with j allocateus resources to hire ane maintain american indian and enumerators and it's still unclear whether this goal has l beenas reached.king moreover, we're also concerned s about delays in the american indian and alaskan native not a advertising campaign. however, our efforts are not tol replace those or absolve the u.s. census bureau of its responsibility to use its staffs and resources to ensure a full enumeration of american indian alaskan native populations. as such ncai recommends that census bureau make steps to implement the following actions. immediately address enhan delay hiring american indian and alaskan native enumerators and partnership specialists to enhance trusted sources for cou indian country population to ure rely upon.umeratio reallocate resources to address needs for more communications actions to ensure complete s are remuneration of american indian and alaskan native populations. increase communications to tribal communities on what resources are available to ibalc ensure theirom participation ism complete, increase media buys ia more diverse areas for tribal p communities, ensure data collected about american indian and alaskan native households is accurate and accessible after the implementation of a planned new disclosure avoidance mythologies. so in conclusion, in closing i urge this committee to continuer conducting oversight in the gens census bureau implementation of thee 2020 census.e this will help ensure a complete and accurate count for the indigenous people of this >> country. berthank you.you. i now recognize mr. moore for five minutes. >> good morning, ladies and f nw gentlemen, chairwoman maloney and ranking member jordan.n i'm president and ceo of the national urbann league. i previously served as mayor ofk new orleans, a louisiana state senator and chairman of the 2010 census advisory committee. i'm proud to be here today and thank you for the community. the national urban league was founded in 1910 as a nonpartisan non-profit civil rights organization dedicate today the empowerment of african-americans. we work through a yea network og affiliates in 36 states and thee districts, of columbia. we serve 2 million people a year. in finding jobs, becoming home owners and chal starting small businesses in many important areas. i speak today about the undercount of african-americans and the challenges in complet t upcoming census and how the wat national urban league is mobilizing to ensure a complete and accurate count.0 has i want to thank the committee, s and i want to thank the histori leadership for ensuring that the census 2020 has been better sig funded. the census has beene historicald underfunded for most of the pasy decade. what's been the significance of this?challe it's caused operational and i.t. delays, recruitment and hiring challenges, a cancellation of critical tests to improve the e, 2020 census count. your leadership on this issue is in the best interests of all ofi the american people and i encourage you to continue to exercise your oversight responsibilities. we've witnessed the browning of america in realtime. fromen california to connecticu to florida to alaska. we've witnessed the growing needs of our communities as a uc gap between thoseou who have an. those who have not has , increased. true faces of the arcera undercount every day, their children, they're black, they'rd brown, they're the formally incarcerated. they're immigrantsoweles who ar black, who are brown and of other races. they're the homeless and engthle aga jentrified. the census is a big deal.in the founding fathers were brilliant in ordaining that all the people in the united states be counted every ten years.f the 50 years ago in 1970 my predecessor whitney young, jr. who was executive director of u the national urban league testified before the then subcommittee on census and statistics, a part of the committee on post office and ne civil service. at that time he spoke unders passionatelyer about the need ft a full and complete count of uss black and underserved communities. his testimony about the 1970 g census is the oddly familiar toe discussion today. lac hek talked about inadicate assistance for completing the eh forms, poor community outreach, the lack of spanish language forms, inadequate outreach in education to reach minority populations. he inclu noted that the 1960 ce0 years ago missed 1 in 10 black people including 1 in 6 black men. fast noloforwardgi to 2020 and there's much to applaud about the 2020 census, the tech lulogical advancement and and my milns we copanelistsli see too many parallels to the 1970 census ant even more uncertainties. in 2010 a million children disproportionate black black and brown, didn't show up in the census. an alarming 6-10 black children between the ages of 0 and 4 were completely missed. the undercount of black and a brown children has grown exponentially and economic and political consequences of this are grave.2010 cen african-american men are still missed in staggering numbers.ely in the 2010 census fully 3.9 million african-americans were completely missed. approximately 700,000 formerly e incarcerated men and women oor, re-enter our communities each ih year. they must be low counted. we must count the digital divide in rural and poor, rural and re urban poor communities and those with low digital fluency who require a paper questionnaire and an enumerator's knock on thw door. we have to participate in disinformation social media rtit campaigns designed to mislead communities and communities of color about the census and sow seeds of fear about census participation. community outreach in education has been hampered by the failed citizenship question whichfi heightened distrust and fear of the census work in immigrant communities. now, we've worked with the irin census bureau to help achieve an accurate 2020 count, and we do commend the rank and file and lm those in regional offices and partnership teams for the work they've done. let me talk about the gaps. significant hiring delays and backlogs are going to impact the door to door enumeration. let me make this point. the census bureau's own researcg shows that notwithstanding the t internet access and the phone access, 40% to 60% of americans are going to wait until an enumerator knocks on the door. if, in fact, the census bureau does not hire a significant amount of enumerators on a w timely basis, the enumerator portion of this census will not succeed and the impact will be l an undercount in black communities, in brown communities, in asian communities, and in rural int ' communities. those hiring delays will affect indigenous. twant to say a few other things about the paid advertising timn program, and i want to make this point. we've had an opportunity to look at that advertising program. our concern is that the timing of the advertising program is misaligned with enumerator >> ee processes. >> wrap up. your five minutes is over. beg if you can wrap up. >> i'm seeing 1:37 on the clock. >> over. [ laughter ] >> as you all say, i beg your indulgence.e how my final point is that i encourage in the question and answer period would like to explain and illuminate how, in fact, the advertising program is misaligned with the enumerator portion. it's important that advertising. take place while the door knocking program is ongoing. >> thank you. thank you. >> thank you very much. am mr. moore is recognized. >> sorry. chairwoman maloney, thank you and the members of the committee for the opportunity to testify i today on behalf of rural americans and specifically rural georgians. georgia, like many others, is facing statewide challenges in , rural communities. gra population declines, grain populations, slow job growth and distressed city. we have four georgia regional e yearsties, and we have a mission to serve 41 county service area primarily in south georgia. in 2017 leadership at the esu u started talking about how they could have an impact on the recurring challenges all of those communities face. nment,ould be business, r industry, health care, k through 12 education, city/county government. and they came up with a result was they created the center for south georgia regional impact, and i started working with thats organization in 2018. mission of the center is to try to work with all 41 counties to identify opportunities and challenges they might have and n i'll go back to valdosta state to identify resources to help them out that could be interns, graduating, assistants, it's research, professors working on projects. it just depends what the need is and covers all sets of our colleges. evers focused on our 41-county c area and it's a very diverse s area. many of you would probably worki consider everybody rural, butn the largest is lowndes 115,000 t and counties as small as 1,500. they have their own issues and challenges. our goal is the communities know what they need best so we're trying to find out what they need and go back and try to find resources to help them out. a bacing that helped me out i o ssful c guess in the transition is i had a 25-year background in economic development, and i had a e successful career in georgia and spent the last 21 years in mulltry county. when i left we had 96 projects under construction and 3.1% tha unemployment rate which is pretty strong for a south georgia rural community. one thing that really kind of stuck out is we were looking at what we were trying to do with the center and what we were trying to do with a lot of my ia friends in south gentleman gentleman was the georgia chamber of commerce had a presentation called georgia 2030. and they've been making rounds p with this presentation for p probably three or four years. j and you don't have theob graphi, but if you'll look them back up, they've got populationire for a projections andnd job protectiow throughould 2030. and and those numbers are pretty dire for south georgia continueo for rural georgia. and you would expect, you are m projecting strong population and job growth in atlanta and many hub cities, savannah, augusta, d columbus. and may con, you're projecting minimal growth. k but many of our counties in rural georgia are projecting ps population losses and job for s losses. get from an economic development standpoint, that's a death nail. so the census proposed a counte tremendous opportunity for us tw get hatinvolved. it was a tremendous challenge for our 41 counties. i mentioned my career and one o thing that tied in to what we're doing with the census right nowg is we had a program with the university of georgia called archways. same premise, we an employee who served in poultry, identify big projects, they would go back to athens and bring back a information to us. one of our projects was the 201m census. we hadf a great team in place. we had 30 to 40 people. an we had trusted voices representing every different 0 demographic of the community. p and as a result, we had an 8.19% in the 2010 census which is, again, pretty strong for a rural south georgia community. i parlayed that information and use it in every request or in out for at we sendnd new industry, retail, commercial, and continued weeating more jobs in our community because companies want to invest.unes and what we've done from vsu elp support, we've worked with local and regional communities. we've met with all 41 counties and tried to help them organize their complete count committeese again, severyone's different. what works in one county is not going to work in the other. the demographics are going to be different and the resources are going to be different. we've assisted with strategies to achieve an accurate count. we've worked with the governor's complete count committee, theira marketing committee. they've hired a marketing firm called network planet, uga, andc of course the u.s. census reps e that are serving our region. we've done several focus groups with hard to count populations trying to refine our marketing message, and we're also we providing free marketing support to our 41-county area.olorin we've got order firms that we sent out. we've got billboards already upa in all 41 counties.y t we've gothrou coloring pages th we're making available through k-5 systems throughout south georgia and throughout georgia.. we've got table tents that promote the census that are going to be on every restaurant table from cordell south all 41 counties. we've got posters that impacts families, children, migrant farm workers, and agriculture, and how it affects you from a community leader standpoint. that's available in english and spanish and we have the ability to provide in other languages io necessary. the orderms forms came back in november and we currently have order forms for 45,306 table tents, 65,757 posters that will bebeal delivered at no cost to of our counties next week.k. we're also doing banners, promotional t-shirts, and other media to help supportmake s theo i know myrtan time's up. our main goal is to make sure every citizen knows how important it is for them, their family, and community to participate in census. >> thank you very much. and thank you for all of your efforts.bruary 1 i commend all of our panelists. i would like to announce today that on february 12th, the doctr director of the census bureau, t dr. steven dillingham, will be appearing before this committee to answer questions about how the bureau is responding to the many challenges that our panelists outlined today. and with so much at stake, vigorous oversight of the 2020 i census is absolutely essential. i now recognize myself for fivei minutes. this year's census will be the largest and most complex in our nation's history. so the bureau has a tough job t. ensure that every community get fully and accurately counted. sadly, the current administration admitted -- or e practically admitted -- they don't even want to count everyone when they tried to illegally add a citizenship ques question to the census. as a result, many cities and te. states have stepped up to ensure everyone is counted.blished they've established what is called -- and mr. moore talked about it and mr. morial -- complete count committees to identify risks, recommend solutions, and direct state and local funding to areas of hard to count, at-risk areas. mr. morial, you served in new orleans on the complete count committee, i believe, in 1990 you said, and led that committee as mayor in 2000. would you agree that establishing these committees is the right move, and would you recommend this practice to other states and localities? >> it's important that states and localities and in the case of mr. moore, regional economict development organizations, inderstand that the success of the census requires a theals. partnership and the involvement of local elected officials. what we don't have visibility on at this point is how many cities, how many states, how many counties have in fact created complete count committees and have one operationized them. one problem with this year's census is that census reduced the number of local partnership offices by 50%.e and these local partnership offices were the connective tissue between the complete count committees and the censusf so, yes, it's an important lean strategy, and i would encourage it. and i would say that in 2000, the city of new orleans spent money and had its own effort underway with people and advertising andre resources. i know in this instance there e are a number of communities and cities who are doing the same tt thing for 2020 and states.ted >> thank you.ou my home state of new york is doing that. they created their own complete count commission.po in t you pointed out an important ns point that they've reduced somef support in this area. maybe we should get the census bureau to do a review of how c many complete count committees are out there and that can have us -- have a good overview. >> oh, it would be very helpful. >> the new york count committee came up with eight risks and to challenges which were similar t what you said today, language barriers, digital divide, hiring issues and distrust among communities of color.u are very similar to what you were saying. and then they came up with 18 l specific recommendations, and also put in roughly $60 million in city, state and philanthropic funding to help make sure that s the census was stronger.the in we hope that other communities can also take the initiative as you have in new orleans. ms. gupta, do you believe the census bureau should be engaging with these state and local stath committees to make the bureau's outreach more efficient and effective?nation w it seems that a better coordination would help. can you elaborate in this area?e >> c yeah, these complete count committees are incredibly important.un, ly thes they're actually -- the model was developed by the bureau at its inception to coordinate state and local efforts around the country to get out the count. and we know actually most states have indeed created them. there are five states that have not. they are louisiana -- sorry, four -- nebraska, south dakota, and texas. florida just this week created one, but one of the challenges is states can't just nominally create these committees. they also have to put ates c significant funding towards thee particularly because this will be one of the most difficult enumerations. so florida created a complete count committee did this week c but did not allocate any dollars to it.al so, there's mapping over two bue dozen states haved si allocated contributed significant partne state-based under the funding to help supplement the federal funding and the work of the bureau. but that partnership needs to be really tight and too many states still have not added additional resources to really get the part sh partnership trusted messengers, communications, supplemental workore have out as a part of t. the bureau needs to work much more closely with these committees around the country. >> i don't have a chance to c plk to everyone, but if you can place in writing, i will let mr. moore to have the last word how beneficial these complete count committees are. did you work with them on georgia? put on the mic please. >> not used to that. they've been tremendous. we've actually had a governor'sh complete count committee since 2017.. 2017 tly, we've had much more co emphasis on the census for 2020 than we did no 2010. >> that's great. >> in 2010, i don't think we hai planned or a lot of support, bu we do this year. >> that's good. thank you. >> there's partners all over. p we've tracked i think almost every county -- >> my time has expired..withcoun i invite all of the panelists to put in writing their experience with complete count committees and other ways they think it ne needs to beto expanded.e it's such an important challenge before us, an accurate, fair census. our constitution requires it. our government relies on it, ane our democracy depends on it.. with that i recognize the distinguished ranking member, mr. gosar of arizona. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. mr. moore, i'm from arizona. you're from georgia.e it sounds like you've got some pretty good expertise here. you know, according to the city university of new york's mapping service, 21% of the population in my district did not send in f their t survey. and the same report estimates that 25% of the population in m. district lives in these hard to count districts. have we learned anything from previous censuses to combat thãb waste and lack of response?or cm >> sure, and that's one thing we're trying to incorporate on a county-by-county level or community level in all of our communities.s.e we have historical data. we know what the response rate was by census track in 2010, so we can tell you where those haro to count areas were then. and most likely, if they were hard to count in '10, they will also be in '20. also maps with low or limited internet connect connectivity. we're working with a plan to target all of those focused areas, shotgun or rifle areas, have a shotgun trying to hit everybody else. we've got several different organizations. our georgia libraries are putting up stations where people can come back in, get peop information on the census, fill out the census while they're there.o i had a call with the georgia mi farm bureau about two weeks ago. they're going to do the same thing. we've got family connections, ns housing authorities, soup kitchens that are all doing inga similar items. our main goal again is awarenesu and education, trying to make sure people know why it's o important and making it easy for them to participate. >> you brought up internet access.cess t and roughly 17% -- almost 18% of my district has no access to real -- access to internet. so is providing that internet service actually expanded the reach or has it made it more convenient for those people to do it that are fundamentally rn. fallen through? >> i think it's probably both. it is e actual you have a younger demographic now, which is hard to count mo millennials who do everything o. the phone, do everything on the computer. we do have mapss and i actuallyo received one from the u.s. inte census for all of our counties about two weeks ago. so, we know which areas don't have internetce access.h 12. the first mailing for the census is going to start going out march 12th.h. most people that have internet are going to get an n ncourage internet-first card and inte encourage them to participate. those areas that they know do not have internet access will nt get a written form the first time. so everybody in the country is going to have an opportunity to fill it out by the internet with a written form at least once, possibly twice, or do it by the toll free number. again, you just have to encourage them and promote it and let them know how important it is to participate. >> so now the census has four hard-to-count categories, hard to locate, contact, persuade and interview.ok out these areas are pertinent to my district.es when you look outside the cities of prescott, kingland, newman, and whatnot, 0 to 60% mail return rate was issued. how is it -- i'm noticing in your comments that it's not a one size fits all. you've expanded. can you elaborate more? >> it's definitely not. we have communities we're serving about 50 counties now.ie some the city and county they have taken the lead.d.county some of them, family connection which is isnonprofit, family organizations take the lead. some see the chamber and the development authority. but really i think mr. morial may have mentioned trusted voices or possibly mr. vargas. you have to have trusted voices for everybody in your communityo we had that in colquitt county in 2010. somebody that listens to me may not listen to you and vice versa. so, if you have someone who has influence on 50 or 100 people, you need to get them engaged in the complete count committee, te let them know why why it's important, get them to go back and have an impact on the people they have an influence on. >> i kind of want to step ar wer outside my district and talk about the fast-growing state of arizona. the population of increase is 2% and above. counting as many people possible is critical for our future, that includes diverse populations, ethnics, tribal ethnicities. does the census efforts effectively address these communities that are hard to reach? >> yes, sir and we're trying to develop plans for each community. i know u.s. census and even state census has hard-to-count populations. and all of those don'ty to e ap every community.that's v again, it's critical for community to have robust complete count community that's very diverse.divers you've got faith-based. you've got business. you've got local media.tters or you've got people that feel p wi comfortableth writing plletters speaking that may have influence on the general community. so, it's important you come up with a real plan to get everybody to participate.rticip >> the gentlewoman, mrs. norton, from the district of columbia, congresswoman norton is recognized for five minutes. he. >> first i want to say i appr appreciate the testimony of all of you, but i must say mr. morial, i appreciate your issue testimony because it emphasizes the extent to which the census has no ideological face. indeed it is against the have t interest of every member sitting up here to have their own residents not counted because -- if for no other reason -- the money will not go to them. understand the money will be appropriated by the congress. it only means your district won't get it because you have supported an undercount. i was amazed to see the ranking members' remarks, even after a supreme court, a conservative supreme court, has rescued the country from this issue. and i would just like to indicate what they said. the supreme court said that the rationale given by my colleagues had been contrived and incongruent with what the record reviews and that conservativeã supreme court is why we're going to have a chance to have an accurate census.on th now, it's not enough to say, look, everybody the question is not on the census. i want to urge every member of congress to undertake actions on the internet, in your own it'sl district, to try to reverse the message that was out there for two years that alarmed people, remembering that it's always th difficult to gete an accurate census and that my friends on the other side have made it even more difficult. so, let me ask you, mr. vargas, because i understand that your organization has been studying the issue since the supreme court ruling. and i'm trying to get data or on information on the w impact, whe anybody there, but i understand you've given some thought to n this -- on the impact of the citizen question on the willingness as i speak of citizens to participate in the census. >> thank you, congresswoman, for that question.on in october, november and december our low education fund2 commission research surveyed 1,200 latino adults and immigrants and we held 12 focus groups throughout the country in oregon, florida, north carolina, wisconsin, texas and arizona to try to assess what the current perceptions are by latino educat immigrants towards the census. we found some important things. one is the census bureau has a positive brand that it needs to use and fully educate the public about what is and is not going to be asked. we also learned there are very significant differences in willingness to participate by latino citizens and noncitizens latino citizens express much eni more likelihood to say they wil fill out their census forms.ss noncitizens less so. >> well, do you think the undocumented -- and every on thi jurisdiction sitting on this panel has undocumented people. are undocumented people going to participate in this census? >> congresswoman, this isn't just undocumented immigrants. these are families with mixed it status households, u.s. e? citizens, legal permanent residents, daca applicants, people of varying immigration status. and there's a fear of why am i v being asked now am i a citizen yes or no when immigrants are following policy developments day to day and know there's a cn campaign against immigrants in the country today. this has created an environment that does not help the census bureau in being able to convince everybody it is in fact safe and confidential. that is why we need trusted messengers to speak up.gers to and the trusted messengers we have identified are educators, health care providers, minority-led organizations like the ones here on the panel here today, and local elected officials. those are the individuals we nfn need to empower to speak out and to convince their constituents that participating in the census is safe and confidential. and any perceived risk actually is outweighed by the damage done by not participating in the census. >> this is very important that this responsibility is on us all, and not just census, why don't you do that? let me ask the question about oi the administration thaton refus to give up on administrative records. i hope people have not even heard about this.ecting but do any of you have any information on the executive order or the effect of the executive order to start k this collecting citizenship data from federal and state administrative records? do you think that will have any impact? i'm not trying to give it air time. i just want to know if we've seen anyy repercussions. >> if i may, congresswoman, i think it's fundamentally st sai important building off of what my colleague arturo vargas saidv for people to understand under federal law the bureau is not allowed to release data or personal responses they receive to any other government agency. but we know that the executive order has created grave concerni that the president is attempting to use that to exclude noncitizens from the population count that states use to redraw district lines.advancin that would be unconstitutionally blocking communities from across the country of fair and equal political representation and aging americans advancing justice and filed a lawsuit to challenge the executive order. >> thank you, thank you. >> the distinguished ranking member jim jordan of ohio is recognized. >> thank you, madam chair. now we can't even debate it. think of what we just heard and what we have heard in testimonyt from mr. yang and vargas. for a year the democrats told us oh, the citizenship question on the census is bad. it's a bad idea. even though we've been doing it since 1820, they tell us it's a bad idea. now today -- even know it's nod. even though when the census bureau did a study last summer, they saw no difference in self-response rates with forms nship e citizenship question and those without the at citizenship question, but today it's even worse. they said oh, just the fact we had a debate is harmful. now think how scary that is. mr. yang and mr. vargas both said that and the gentle lady from the district of columbia just said the same thing. we're not even allowed to talk about it now.the deba that is really scary. the debate itself about a question that's been asked since 1820? the c let's just get the facts straight. between 1820 and 1950 it was asked on the census between 1920 and 2000 long form census and to today it was placed on the n ase american community survey. so, it's been asked every single time. but now today we're not even supposed to debate it. this is where the left wants to take us. this is -- think of what judge alito, previous member talked about the supreme court decision. here's what judge alito said in his decision, concurring in part, descending in part.decisi no one disputes that it's no on important to know how many tant inhabitants of this country are citizens.s. he's actually wrong.at on i think making a good point but i think he's wrong.tee disp every democrat on this committee disputes that. the witnesses in front of us here today dispute it even though our constituents say we should know how many. mr. yang, do you think it's important to know how many citizens are in this country? >> it is important under the constitution article one, section two to ensure all residents are counted under every decennial census. >> that's not the question i seo asked you, though. >> and if there's anything thato attracts from offering a fair and accurate count, that is a pn concern -- >> so you disagree with judge alito?t how ma no one disputes that it's important to know how inhabitants, do you think he's citizens wrong? >> that's not the job of the census. >> do you think it's appropriate to know how many people in this country are citizens? would o >> i would offer no further mano response because what we are here -- >> let the record to show the gentleman won't even answer the question.our co between 1820 and 1950 when our country asked inhabitants of this nation are you a citizen, that was wrong?th >> i dispute your understanding of the history with the question with respect to the census. we can offer -- >> should the surveys today askt the citizenship question? do you disagree what the census bureau is doing today as we speak? >> may i answer that question, congressman? >> i addressed mr. yang. trying to get him to answer a question that he refuses to answer. >> i believe i did offer an answer. >> it is appropriate to ask rmi under theth census that we are a talkingte about. we are trying to determine the population of the united states. and anything that detracts from the fairness and accuracy of that count will not be part of the mission. >> and then i followed up and i. said so do you think it's wrong that the census bureau on the american community survey is asking a citizenship question. do you think that's wrong? >> that's a survey instrument that's been tested in the context of thatey survey which s previously the long form. that's different than the decennial 2020 census. >> if you're going to answer my id question, do you agree we on abo shouldn't have a discussion wh about it because that may impach what happens on the census? >> the fact that this question was introduced has caused damage to the community and that damage continues to this day.th as demonstrated by the studies from mr. vargas, as demonstrated by the census bureau itself. and so that is what we need to address to ensure a fair and o accurate count on the census. >> so because of that concern you think it's appropriate to limit the first amendment, limit speech in the united states is congress, we shouldn't have evee had this debate? is that what you i don't said? >> that's not what i said. i said what we need to do is erd ensure that everybody is counte and anything that has done damage to the fact that everybody would be encouraged to participate in this study -- >> in your opening statement you said the debate that took place over the last year on whether to include a citizenship question wasn yo harmfulur to o what's g happen on the census and the han census count and being able to count the people across this e country. i'm asking you, you don't think that debate should have taken place, not appropriate to have that debate in the united states congress that has been done in this country since 1820?l?te in try siyou arress >> i believe you're mischaracterizing what i'm e saying.ield >> i believe you won't answer g the question. madame chair, i yield back. >> thank you. the gentleman mr. missouri, mr. clay issmr recognized for e questions. >> thank younize madame chair,o thank you for holding this hearing. before i get into my line of question i wanted to recognize o mr. vargas --us lin i saw you had something to contribute to the previous line of questions.. would you like to pick it up? >> the point i was going to make was that the census bureau does ask in the american community survey, how many citizens -- ifh you are a citizen. but the research determines, congressman, is which questions you ask and when you ask them has consequences. asking a citizenship question on the american survey is a different experience than asking a question on citizenship on the decennial. the researchers have determined that the better way to collect o citizenship data of the american public is through the american community survey, not the decennial census. >> thank you so much for that follow-up response. even with our united efforts and an administration seeking to do the right thing, the 2010 census missed some 2.1% of black communities. so i'm concerned that the rts of current census sabotaged efforts of this administration with their failure to hire, failure to allocate adequate resources and scare tactics toward immigrants will lead to an unprecedented undercount.k so, i want to thank the chairwoman for shining a bright light on the issue in today's hearing. mr. morial, you are a veteran of several censuses. what are some of the major challenges that have led to an undercount in black and brown communities in past censuses? >> historically, the undercount has resulted from the failure to count children completely and adequately, number one.adequa the historic undercount of african-american men has contributed to the overall undercount in the african-american community. but let me focus, because i why think it's important on the 202b census, where we are and why wev are where we are.ding of we are where we are because there's been historic, over the last several years, underfunding of the census. that underfunding has led to the cancellation of a number of tests that the census has done. it's meant that delay and late effort to begin hiring the enumerators. it's been delays in doing the testing necessary to ensure this online system works well. we don't want to have another health care.gov with the census. so those things -- excuse me.e let me finish mr. clay's question. >> go ahead. >> so the undercount, i think it we want to focus this year on what's necessary to ensure a hi more complete count the co enumerator portion in the advertising campaign have to be energized, this committee has to do oversight.th i encourage when the census director comes to get to the bottom line on where they are on the hiring of the enumerators h because this is the point, 60%,. this is the census bureau's research.notw 60% of african-americans are ta going to rely on the doorknocker to provide information.on is notwithstanding the internet, notwithstanding the telephone, notwithstanding the paper form. in the numbers for the overall population are in the 40% and 50% range. the enumerated portion is so critical and if they don't hire the people they need to hire -- in 2010, when they were hiring enumerators we were in a recession. now the situation is different. in 2010 you could go to census office and apply for a job. now you've got to go online.pprt so, all of these barriers. so, we need to get to the bottom line in term of where it is in order to ensure. >> and i appreciate that response. in your opening remarks you mentioned the media campaign. can you talk about your concerns? >> right now the media campaigna we had a chance to look at some -- an early look at some of the commercials focused on the . african-american community. some of them are pretty good. however, if the advertising stops when the enumerator follow-up portion of the censuse begins to take place then there is no advertising telling you people could have this perception that the census is over, so they need to expand the advertising for another -- whata is it --t pe 45 or 60 or so day that you have advertising taking place during the entire period that people have the opportunity to respond to the census. this is an alignment issue. so, again, i encourage -- and it's also necessary for the african-american population that the advertising not overly relym on digital ads, that it includee radio, it include communityns newspapers and the like. i encourage you to probe this with the census bureau.unicat >> my time is up. i hope my friend from north carolina understands that the key is communication with the public. i yield back. >> i will never -- i'll leave it. >> the gentleman from the great state of north carolina is recognized for five minutes. >> i thank the gentleman from missouri -- >> requested. >> -- for his congenial way of where he communicates. i miss his red glasses. i don't see your red glasses. you got gray ones. all right.om line so, let me get to the bottom line on all of this and hopefully will offer a little bit of help. i've conducted more census hearings probably than any other member of congress, and the previous administration and this one. what i do want to get is an accurate count. so i'm going to offer a few things you can consider. mr. allis. is it allis?tandpo here's one of the things i would ask you to do. from a native american tribes wt standpoint if you will help us with the rolls of a few tribes i where we can do sampling to mak sure we are reaching those underserved areas, i happen to t have -- i believe ihe had the first congressional office on tribal lands in the history of our country. i had the eastern bay under the cherokee indians in my districta that i proudly acknowledge their sovereign right. and so if you will do that and get that to us, we'll be glad to do that.e conc i'm sure i can find members on the other side of the aisle to t work with us. one of the concerns i have, just bluntly, is reaching those underserved areas because internet is not available. we're talking about 5g yesterday. in most of my district i'd like 1g, let alone 5g. if you would do that i would 'se appreciate that. mr. morial, one of the areas i think is key is if there is false information that's being put out there in predominantly urban areas that's not somethinh i have an expertise on, but if you will get that to us, here's what i would ask of you. i've traveled under the previous administration with enumerators that were actually out in the field, one of the few members tl have done that.thing i understand the challenges.isi but the other thing is tv advertising is not going to reach the people that we need to reach. i think all of you will agree with that. what i would ask you to do is come up with something where we can do direct, text messaging, they might not have internet service, but they eventually come into contact most with one of these and where we can do that with credible sources.s. i'm willing to work with you. we spent over $500 million ng to trying to do outreach. some of that has been misallocated in terms of concentrating in certain areas. i'm willing to work with all of you on that particular issue. mr. moore, you're giving us a n, great roadmap for rural america but you're not getting any federal funding, are you? >> no, sir. >> how many of you are getting any federal funding as it -- either directly or indirectly with your groups in terms of outreach? raise your hand, anybody? we are spending $500 million in outreach. in my commitment to each one of you is if you will reach out to me i'll work with the committee, but we will work with the commerce department because i met with them more times than i care to mention over trying to get an accurate count. if you will do that, mr. commit morial, if you will do that, i will help you. mr. allis, if you will help us n with native american, certainlye some of the other areas, i don't have as much expertise.rg we don'te as have a large asian population in western north t wn carolina but at the same time, i'm sincere about getting an accurate account.this when we start to focus on this citizensh citizenship question, we're making drastic errors and mr. morial, i think you agree with us. we unundercounted in 1970.estiot we undercounted in 1980. we undercounted in 1990. we undercounted in 2000.0. there was a citizenship questio then and to suggest that somehow it's uniquely 2020 is just not accurate.woe i'm a numbers guy, and i'm willing to work with you.ach but if y'all will work with us . on how we can reach these underserved and hard to reach communities, we'll get an ink wh accurate count. are y'all willing to do that?s >> i'm open. i think when the census director is here, i think the extent and magnitude of their outreach should be probed by the community. >> under well, i'll probe it. but let me tell you, i had the previous census director under president obama here and i egg n expressed great concerns that we were weo be ready and i didn't want there to be egg on my face because they were not asking for enough money. we have funded the census at levels that are unprecedented.pr so, it's not a problem of money. it's a problem of allocation. and if all of you will agree to help us with that, i'm willing o to pull a five alarm fire to make it work. >> i want to make --treach. the census bureau does not fund a community-based outreach. >> i beg to differ. i can tell you, we work with -- >> they don't fund ca organizations to do community business -- >> but we fund groups to actual actually be the on part of it i can promise has a line item.rify i actually talked to the groups we will be glad to clarify that. >> none of us? >> i now recognize congressman conley from virginia for ur questions. >> i thank you, madam chairwoman. welcome to our panel. i want to go back to an becaus assertion made earlier and ask particularly you, mr. yang, to respond because the ranking member would have you believe that for some mystical reason democrats just don't like this question about citizenship and it's a harmless question and it's a piece of data we really need. i thought i heard from your testimony that in was a more maligned purpose behind adding a question that hasn't been added to the survey as i understand ii since 1950. and it wasn't democrats who objected ultimately.nd h it was a court ofe wa law. it was a federal judge who decided that and he was upheld by the supreme court ultimatelyw because theas commerce departme in its eagerness to add this question which we now know from the release of emails was politically inspired to depress and suppress cooperation with pi the census deliberately to create an undercount of minority populations, especially ones you were talking about. maybe you represent, mr. yang, the fastest growing population in my district is asian-american. and the fastest piece of that i south asian. we want everyone counted as the. chairman said in the opening statement, citizen and noncitizen. requir the constitution requires it. and fairness demands it.there so i want to give you an opportunity. is this some conspiracy by one of the two political parties to avoid getting data on what otherwise ought to be a simple analytical tool, a question about your citizenship status? >> thank you for that question. i'm proud to be a constituent of your jurisdiction. >> god bless you. >> and this goes to what mr. vargas was saying. let me correct the record first with respect to the citizenship question.t mr. va it's incorrect to say the with citizenship question appeared on every decennial census for 200 s years. >> correct. >> that's factually incorrect.mm it has appeared on the american community survey which as mr. e. vargas has testified is a completely different instrument that has been tested. it doesn't go to every household.esn't go it goes to 3% of households.s. all hous >> let me just interrupt mr. yang to establish your point. am i correct, the last time it was on the actual census surveyy was 1950? >> on the decennial survey was r 1950, that's correct. >> so,s the idea it's customar and ordinary is flat out false. 1950 is 25 years ago? >> if we could only wish. that is -- that is correct. and again, the concerns that we expressed in litigation and all of our groups express was that this question was proposed withs no testing and already understanding the census bureau research already presented to us that there was a fear within the immigrant community about information that was being collectedted ab sugg about thema to suggest that this question ta should be just introduced willy-nilly without testing caused great concern to us.ler h certainly during the course of litigation as is public now have documents uncovered for mr. hossler that people testified to earlier with respect to the fact that including citizenship question could cause -- be politically advantageous to non-hispanic whites.ly certainly for my community, mr. vargas' community and many of our communities that is deeply troubling fact. >> and you also raise the question of other languages, and although clearly an effort has been made to try to expand the number of languages in which thh census is presented, given the e the pluralistic nature of america and the diversity of so many of our communities including the one you and i live in where over 120 languages are spoken, what do you recommend we try to do to maximize participation and get over the m language barrier? >> thank you for that. it's ultimately the objective for the decennial census is to ensure we have a full and accurate count of all america.j what i would offer is even fulla closer coordination with the a. census bureau.so we've talked about some of the n different aspects in which closer coordination can be we wful. one of the benefits of rmation technology is that we will have a realtime information about wol jurisdictions in areas that are not responding at a rate that we would want.at is so at that point community foll organizations should work with the census bureau to figure out what is the best strategy to follow up with those communities.s. and that is not a device that would have been available in 2010 or 2000 to the robust degree we have now. with respect to languages, it is with trusted barriers. mr. vargas spoke very eloquentlm about them.unity y i would addge another one. ministers, pastors, churches, and ensuring they are part of . that trusted messenger communito that can getr accurate r bein information and language g information for many of these churches to those communities in a way in which they would respond. >> thank you my time's up. thank you, madam. m >> i'd like to begin by thankin each of the panelists for being here mr. moore, y'all are doingd a fantastic job in south georgia and i'm deeply grateful for the leadership that you're exhibiting there. and madam chair, i would like t ask unanimous consent to add to the record -- he mentioned a powerpoint presentation that none of us got to see. i would like to ask -- >> without objection. so ordered. >> thank you.sle agrtant is it is interesting to me that we are all of us on both sides of the aisle agree that's what's s most important is to get an accurate count. and yet what seems to hi jack every one of these census hearings is the citizenship question. and i,as again, would assume th everyone in this room would agree it's important for us as a country to know how many people who are citizens. that's about as basic as you can get. it's important for us to have ii that information. about getting it is -- i suppose there's multiple ways for that to be done. but what i get annoyed at is hos that issue is used really to attack the president.ssary an and i don't think that's fair. i think that's unnecessary and there's no reason for us to create an atmosphere of attacking the president on tr something constitutionally base as the census is.ef so i would just urge my ul f colleagues on the other side to just take the politics out of this and let's try to get to th, issue of an accurate count.pact mr. moore, with that, i'm grateful for the work that you are doing in south georgia. just from a broad perspective, how important is the impact on rural communities of having an s accurate census? >> thank you, congressman. it's critical. especially for us. i live in a city that has 46,000 population. i've taken notes from all of our speakers, and we're all working, i think, on the same primary ou coal. colquitt county is a large succs agricultural community. we have a had a large migrant ht population. and one thing that really attributed to our success in 2010 was we had a lady named bertha rojas.ha she did prenatal programs financial programs with a lot os the migrant populations and they trust bertha so she was on our complete count committee and ifm she told him it was something needed to do, they participated in the census. i think they even learned from that so this year on the committee they've got brie representatives from different subgroups within that group. but it's critical. we talked about it briefly early on. the census data impacts everything we do from an economic development perspective. >> okay. hit on that. from an economic developmentã perspective, how does the census impact economic -- >> it drives jobs.ar i've been in development for 25 years if you got an industry that's looking at your community there they want to make sure they have people there that canh work. they're going to want to go to communities that are growing, have good education, good k had, and can provide the workers they need. if you're looking at opening up a restaurant or dress shop, you want to make sure you have consumers that are going to purchase your goods. they're going to want to go to communities that are growing.s i'm extremely competitive.and e i always wanted to win the deal. i always wanted my neighbors and everyone around me to do well l too because companies don't look at county lines. they don't look at city lines. they look at market draws. so, for a work force county perspective, we had 21,000 workers in colquitt county, but we had 185,000 workers within a and that's what we sold., se it's critical education, we healthcare, economic development, your grant data for roads, water, sewer, bridges, it ties back to economic development. >> i think it's important for all of us to understand that thy census has a great impact not only to just our country but on rural communities in particular with that this move this go around to go more online at ha oriented, what is the absence of broadband in so many rural communities, what kind of impact will that have in getting them e accurate count? >> with us we worked on the awareness and education comes statewide, really, we know which areas don't have broadband. we already know they're going to get a written form of that initial mailing that comes out march 12th, and they will also m get another written form in the fifth mailing that will come out april 8th.h. e've also made arrangements for citizens we talked about t comp wednesday night suppers at unite church having tablets there, computers there where people have the opportunity to fill out the forms. festivals having opportunities to fill out the forms. co library, farm bureau, city ngngn council county commission, th anywhere people congregate, making it easy for them. i think that's what's really critical if you explain why the census is important to them and their families in their community and tell them what itt is what it isn't, most people will voluntarily fill it out. i heard some low numbers earlier as far as response rates before people come to the doors. we've got maps on all 159 counties, and many of our counties have gotten 80, 85% voluntarily response which is oe what you want so you. don't hav to send the enumerators door by door. that's where you have a low turnout and low response rate. >> thank you. i yield. >> thank you very much. i'll call on mr. krishnamoorthi. >> thank you so much for callinm this committee hearing. thank you to our panelists for being here. i'm so glad that all of you are so committed to an accurate census for 2020. i think one very important institution for having an accurate census are our local public libraries. my family and i are big fans of local public libraries with three kids you have to be. 14, 10, 3., 3. i i joke with a teenager and toddler i'm ready for anything in congress. but we have a few public libraries in our area, gail gordon public library, ary and t bloomingdale public library andl the schaumburg township districd library that are t doing an excellent job of going above and beyond to make sure that hard to count communities are actually counted during the census.ries with that, ms. gupta, can you speak to the services offered at many public libraries that coul help hard to count communities respond to the census online such as computers and wifi counr access? >> yeah, the libraries are and actually all over the country. some of the critical partners and institutions rooted in libraries to help get education out and providing service to communities around filling out the census. and the american library association has been working with our coalition and members of this committee regarding thei bureau's plan for mobile of questionnaire assistance centers and other key issues.g we have expressed some concern about what the bureau is doing s around the lacke of informatio that we have around where those mobile questionnaire assistance centers are going to be. the libraries are going to be incredibly important. we have a map even shows around the country where libraries are in hard-to-count communities. we can actually do very targeted -- the bureau can do very targeted outreach based on al rl mapping within hard to count communities about how libraries can play a critical role. but we have to make sure the rev bureau is actually equipped to do that. >> mr. yang, efforts there have partnered with local schools where over 100 languages are spoken in our local public schools. what are some of the challenges you see in counting people in places like my district where there's such a wide diversity o languages spoken and how do you libraries help facile at this facilitate? >> certainly libraries. public schools play an importanc role.on for because they know the composition of their students can say had theable t emerging population for our entire hool d country will be tois tailor thei needs moreth specifically. my school district offers many languages that are not offered by the census bureau. working with those schools i like you have young children. i rely on what we call the thursday folder that comes home with my student. even if i don't read all the mail that comes with advertisements, et cetera, i provided everything thatt comes bume with my child. if they have statistics in school classes, other programs that allow census information. and i know that the bureau is working with the schools to do things along those lines to make sure that information goes again from trusted messenger that is will go a long way towards helping. >> great. mr. vargas, youvargas one of the things that we fear because of the presence of the citizenship question or the mention of it previously is kind of the fear of institutions. do you sense that maybe immigrant communities might be more apprehensive or fearful abusing the local public libraries in light of all the discussion around the citizenship question? >> congressman i have no data of immigrant possession but i have found it where they see messages among schoolteacher is providers and local community leaders and so we need to engage those leaders in our communities as ambassadors as well. >> how are we doing that by the way? >> we are doing it ourselves and through the efforts that each of these organizations representative here are doing it in their own campaigns and were closely coordinating with the census bureau. >> 24 the census bureau as well for their stuff because we have the resources they do and they have millions of dollars pay towards the campaign that campaign should clearly educate the american public about what will not be asked on the census so that we can help them overcome their fear about providing the government with information that they perceive eased against them so we need the power of the census bureau's resources to do a much more thorough job of the american public so that they can be confident participating in the census. >> great, thank you so much, thank you chairwoman. >> thank you thank you before madam chairwoman with all do expect i wanted to correct the an accurate statement that you made with regards, that's not true, the president represents american taxpayers who simply want to know how many citizens reside in the united states, who are not legal american citizens, that has nothing to do with the final count every person residing in the united states will be counted in the census and that will apply to the electoral college so i wanted to correct that an accurate statement and i also want to shift gears and talk about my concern for an undercount in rule america 2016 american community survey showed my congressional district the first one of kentucky as having the greatest share of households with no internet supervision and only a connection, i'm sad to say 29 and a half percent of the household in my congressional district which is extremely rule have either no internet or dial up connection, that's an unfortunate situation that i play the last two administrations but it's something that they're working very hard on whether it's the farm bill or any other piece of legislation that deals with funding for rule internet access, that is something that we strongly support and my congressional office, but as the 2020 census approaches i echo the concerns that others have raised about the constituents being reached and hard to count areas especially rule america the 2020 census is the first time that americans will be able to respond using the internet and i want to ensure that those with lack of internet and broadband connectivity are in left out, because i think we would all agree that rule america, where the overwhelming majority have lack of internet is overwhelmingly republican and we have heard a lot of people expressed concerns about an undercount in different communities, i just want to echo my concern about an undercount in rural, america also have learned that the most difficult population to acolyte counter is children under the age of five, mr. moore why do you believe children are under counted in rural communities. >> one example, that is realistic, you may have a single mother that has three children in our household and her landlord may think that there's only one child in that house so and they get that question and asked how many people are living in the house they may either or not answer at all or not be accurate on it so you get an undercount in that situation and where really impacts is our schools use that census data for planning so they're looking at that sense is stat a and they're looking for 100 kids to show up and because we don't have an accurate census cow do you have 200 children and you have classroom shortages, t-shirt teacher shortages, so that is just one example not something we share with other people so they can try to come up with the way to address that question if it comes up, why is it important for me to list everyone in my household and that's why it's critical to have very diverse large complete count committee that can work with different demographics in the community that have an influence with them and then they have answers to the questions and i think we have all said, it if people know what it is and what it is and people are willing to voluntarily fill out the census it's the fear that keeps them from volunteering. >> you mentioned the efforts he made in georgia about recruiting census workers and i had someone in my district office try to recruit more workers for the census my last question, what is being done to prevent fraud from census takers? either intentionally over accounting or intentionally undercounting residents because i know there are a lot of groups in america that are really doing their best effort. we are to to try to get every single person counted, for obvious reasons. >> u.s. census workers are credentialed and i can't necessarily or accurately address that question but we will tell you something, i know we are over time, 2010, a lot of our smaller rural had census takers from atlanta, birmingham that ran our communities walking door-to-door and that's not a good thing because they are not familiar with the community and new neighborhoods, so what we did in 2010, going throughout georgia right now is encouraging all of our complete count committees to come up with a list of potential employees are volunteers that can apply for those jobs, so when you get someone local that is vested they know how important it is for their community, they know their neighborhoods better, i think someone mentioned not going into a neighborhood because they don't feel safe, you will have a lot higher response rate if you get local people hiring. >> thank you very much, i completely agree, madam chair i yield back. >> mr. raskin of maryland is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for calling this important hearing, successful voter turnout in an election depends on public trust that peoples votes will be counted fairly and a successful civic turnout in a census also depends on public trust specifically trusts that our information will become secure and that nothing now we write down, no information we provide will be used against us, and this trust challenge is a difficult one in an age of social media driven conspiracy theories and russia propaganda campaign to so distrust among americans in our society and just the general background levels of paranoia in government in politics. so that places an extra burden on government not only to act with complete integrity and transparency but also to bring a positive message about democratic government and constitutionally provide practices like the census to the people. so let me start with you miss cooped, how do you think a lack of trust within the privacy and security of census could lead to an undercount in america communities? >> i think there is no question that a lot of trust in privacy could have people basically -- in the census if they feel that their data would be misused or turned over to other government agencies and the like, it is why all of our organization sitting at the table have done so much public education, we believe the bureau needs to do more public education about the existing federal laws. very robust and safeguards the confidentiality, the law is as clear as. but as several of my colleagues have said, that specter of the citizenship question recalls people to have even greater mistrust about the motives of the census, that is what we are all seeking in our local communities in our campaigns to overcome. the are very good answers like i said, the federal law could not be clearer. >> the census, focusing on communities, found 20% of the respondents are very concerned their answers, on the census, will not be kept confidential, 22% more, than one in five, are very concerned their answers can somehow be used against them as you pointed out none of these things can happen under the law we want to send the message to people, that no information on the census can be used against you, and it's skewer, it's confidential madam, i ask you for consent for the report of the census bureau, to be entered into record i, brought a copy of. this >> without objection. >> mr. murray, what kind of confidentiality concern do you think that might keep some of your constituents, or former constituents from feeling out the forms? >> i think confidentiality, especially in the age of internet, and social media, are elevated because, what occurred in the 2016 election when people hear about hacking? it is very important that to push back against that, through positive messages, and to a certain that this is still all that, information, it's confidential, it's a violation of the law, it's a violation of criminal loss to expose. that >> i think it's important a senses and any other agencies are vigilant and closely watching, we will be closely watching and a report anything untoward that we might see, and then we in courage confidence by people, as to what the law is to push back against this, it does undermine people's willingness to participate, in all processes. >> yes can you describe, how trust levels in the federal government in indian country, might affect census participation? >> thank you congressman, so there is no mystery, and everybody knows that historically indian country has had a little bit distrust towards the federal government given the way the government has treated american indians for the past 200 years. the truth level, it's impact negatively by the lack of proper attention given to educating and making the american indians the population understand the purposes, of the census, what it can do, what it cannot do, how to properly fill out questionnaires, and even more important is the communicators that are interacting with the indian countries, are they knowledgeable enough to understand the cultural's and the traditions in appropriate matter to, be able to communicate and navigate within our unique population, we get folks that don't have that familiarity, they're not trusted voices. >> do you think the sense bureau has attended to that concern that your? racing >> they have identified that as an issue in your own background, but we have yet to see if, we are concerned about the proper resources when it comes to the number, the numerators, who they are are, they prepared to go out there and be able to accurately interact with the community? as we have heard from some of the others we know that applying for these jobs in this particular set, it's become much more difficult it's own line, it's a much longer process, it's a longer vetting period, we are not certain that this particular trust has within indian country will be addressed properly. >> okay, i yield back to madame. thank. you >> thank you, mr. grossman from wisconsin is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, i like to make a point i'm, a little bit fan here, to one of our witnesses said the president trump that, the most recent year available we, have 756,000 sworn in this country illegally, it's a highest to, call the president and to him, it's just ridiculous partisan slap and it's not true. i believe it's i'm not sure, up is mr. bargains? but at least in my district, people whose ancestors, are from the south of the border i, can think of a lot of them, who do not want people to break the law, in a so far that if you feel that it represents something called the national association and i just want to make it clear to anybody else listening he their out the day that's in my district, people, they do believe in obeying the laws and object to the ideas that you buy the present trump is anti immigrant because he is four in forcing the laws. >> now my next comment is seeing the groups we have before us today, to partly divide america, and have people obsessed over the ancestry, and in this building, there are conflicts by occupation people, who have more or less credentials, and think about a year ago, we always have the ongoing conflict between the taxpayers and, tax takers. but i think when we set, this creates a false narrative that has been going on in america's disagreement by racial background and, think about that overtime i think, due to intermarriage, we are going to have, it's gonna become more apparent it's becoming less and less that sort of conflict i'm, gonna answer folks, that if somebody else those out that sense form how, exactly will they fill it out when you have a mixed background? you know, several people here, that i know, our one say, one half latin, one half of european ancestry how, do you feel out the form of that senses, about background, alike i like them so how do you fill out the form? >> this allows you to identify as the question around racial background. >> i will give you an extreme example, we have a winning running for president right now elise sport she's very proud she had a press conference she's one 64 the aboriginal america, first nation americas, she do you think it's appropriate she would fill out forms chases native america? >> the census code mid self identifying. >> do you think it's? okay >> i think should be accurate in the nation, south identification should be accurate information. >> so to mr. alice, a to be a member of tribe, you have to be at least one quarter of the background of that tribe. which means, if you are three quarters, that something else. and if someone who has one quarter of native american ancestry, will would it be appropriate for them to fill out european or should they fill out? >> so my tribe is located just north of your district. >> yes i know i know. >> and if you're member of the federally recognized tribe you have absolutely the right to represent yourself as a native america. and my colleague on the panel has accurately stated that the number of consultations ncai has conducted, or has hosted with the census bureau, when that question has come out, within indian country audiences the, answer has been, you self identify, in a matter that you think it's appropriate which, causes some level of confusion okay? but it's the standard statement that has been made by folks at the u.s. census bureau to address that kind of questions. and i will, make a little adjustment to try to understand, there is no difference in a particular tribe, if your travel member and, you're inroad, if you're quarter member, you're three quarters number, your tribal member. >> i understand i'm just saying and average american, i don't know if the am or the average american is race obsessive as some people here, but if you're three quarters european, and quarter native american i, don't know, okay thank you. >> can i just clarify something quickly, you can check as many categories as you want to, it is self identification, but you can check multiple categories if you identify that. >> can i just say something congressman? >> there's a lot of quarter blood native americans in the country, most arose go back to you have to trace somebody back to the role, as far back as, the late 1800s so we are talking about three to four different generations, so congressman i would suggest a quarter blood over three or four or five generations is a significant amount of american indian blood in any particular person, so whether somebody is a quarter indian or three quarter something else, is a really kind of interesting way to look at it to question how somebody would identify themselves. thank you. >> the chair now recognizes congressman far banks from maryland for questions. >> thank you madam chair, thank you everyone on the panel, this is a really critical discussion we are having today, in many respects talking about the importance about, this talking about empowerment and justice, dignity and respect. miss gupta you are here a lot testifying and you're here because not the initial conference provides fundamental advocacy on these important issues of impairment, i want to thank you for that, we have had the opportunity to work closely together on our efforts to protect at perform our democracy thank you especially as it relates to voter suppression and kurds to me that voter suppression and attempts to reduce census participation is two sides of the same coin, they are about pushing people, oftentimes minority communities out of our democracy and we need to be pulling them in to our democracy and you think about it the two most fundamental ways or opportunities that people in this country have at empowerment are to be counted at the polls and counted in census, that is the way someone is able to stand up and say here am, i count, i matter, my voice is important, so i'm very concerned about something, i believe you reference in your written testimony what is the potential for senses related disinformation efforts, we've talked about the importance of getting education and information out there and we need to lean on that as strongly as you possibly can but we also have to combat disinformation when it comes to the census process, could you discuss what census related disinformation could look like and how it can be spread and what the negative effects of it might be. >> thank you congressman and thank you for your leadership on so many of these issues. >> we have been deeply concerned about census related disinformation which really seeks to persuade masses of people to not participate in the count and disinformation is pushed by bad actors trying to propagate false information to make that viral and to steer people away from participating and taken contained false information about who can participate, went to participate, about how to participate and it could spread through social media and networks and the negative effect could be literally that countless people count themselves out meaning that they do not fill out the census as a result and then they will miss out on federal representation, on being represented on state districts and on being counted for purposes of schools and hospitals and health care and alike. we have been, many of our groups have been very actively working with social media companies around ensuring that they have, our developing policies, and i can say more about that. >> let me ask you about that because facebook announced a policy, disinformation on its platform that say it was not going to allow those kinds of misleading posts that would cause misinformation. give me a sense about how you think that policy, is whether it strong enough, weathers others can be invited and taking similar kinds of action on these digital platforms. >> yes the leadership conference and other civil rights groups actually pushed very vigorously at the highest level of the company to ensure and gave detailed input on what would be required to actually have a rigorous and robust census interference policy we commended facebook when they announce their policy for developing really what today it is the most comprehensive policy in the sector for commenting census interference and we have not been commanding facebook for very much recently but that was a significant achievement. facebook announced that any content that violates their census interference policy will be, will not be allowed to remain on their platforms as newsworthy even if it is posted by a politician and that was a pretty significant step for the company, they have created an enforcement, kind of protocol and we want to make sure though that they are going to continue to engage with stakeholders and meaningful ways such as hosting a group to talk about internal efforts. and we've hosted the company to share information that they have about disinformation campaign, so the bureau, and organizations can then come in and flood the zone with the accurate information to make sure nobody is lost as a result, google and twitter have made general statements that they will treat the census like an election but we have yet to see the kind of detailed policies that we need to see from them and our hope now is facebook -- all social media companies are going to follow suit and we are going to be very, very active and trying to push that both for the census and elections. >> thank you very much, my times up, thanks again for the work of leadership, madam chair might be a good idea for us at some point you have a hearing where we can see what the feedback is on what these digital platforms are discovering in terms of census interference. >> that's an excellent idea, we will follow up on. that >> mr. cloud of texas is recognized for five minutes of questions. >> madam chairman, i have one point of clarification if that's all right with you. >> all right with me if it's all right with mr. cloud. >> gentleman's recognized. >> under my questioning earlier i talk about federal funding and i think it was taken in one context not the other and so i don't want any of our witnesses to perjurer themselves so if they would just meet with a committee to make sure you make a full disclosure on federal funding, i think you are answering what i intended the question to be but i know a number of you hit federal funding so you may want to clarify that with the committee and i yield back. >> mr. cloud is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairman woman and ranking, members it's good for us to start off this year that is very important to our oversight duties and it's a cue function of our republic, republic of the people for the people of having a representative government i appreciate the fact that everyone is unanimous in the understanding that it is vitally important that we count every individual and that we do our due diligence to make sure that happens. mister more i come from texas and 191 of our 254 counties is rule, the vast majority of my district is rule including a little town where the population is 2918 people i had the privilege of visiting the other day and i appreciate all the efforts you've done and creative ways of talking about this and i were just asked if you can invite us to one of those dinners i would appreciate, that good home cooking, i wanted to ask mr. memorial, do you have anything to add to what you or your organization might be doing to help reach rural counties and maybe some of the -- >> there is a substantial segment of the african american population that is rural it's not completely urban, forces of sandal part that suburban and probably more african american civilian suburban america then in urban america, there's been a dramatic shift, we have convened some 60 organizations under the banner of the black census roundtable and through those efforts and they include people that reach urban communities, a number of civil rights organizations have extensive networks in rural communities were using this community based activation strategy to publicly educate about the importance of the census and what the purpose of the census is for, why the census is a right for people to participate in. . do you have any little practical nuggets, you add on, about coloring pages, education rules? >> i all the above i, think what he was able to do was, to identify the, local government put its money, and its resources, behind the senses, what's essential to make sense is what is, the work of local governments, states cities counties and the agencies and school districts the like, and in our institution we are encouraging local affiliates to participate in those local efforts, in those local county committees to do that. >> thank you if i can move on quickly i appreciate your thoughts, and you mentioned the constitutional and anything beyond that, that would deter from that mandate that we, should not ask, is that fair, what this the constitution required? ask >> the constitution requires a fair effort to count all the persons in the united states. >> each individual? right >> yes. >> agree with that as well? right >> yes i do in fact the constitution only requires and enumeration does not ask or, age gender or ethnicity, only ask is a head count. >> it does not require asking about the housing status, or sexual it in ships and all that right? so would you indoors not for this obviously going forward consideration of the senses just account, what the constitution required? >> it will have to be a conversation within the american communities were serving because the, data collected by the census bureau goes beyond just a head count, it's used by policymakers to determine how to administer policies in the united states you, need to know how many people are children how, many people are men and women how, many people have different levels of education, how you collect those data, depends on what service we use and, it's a determination what's the purpose of the sense it, was the purpose of american community survey and other surveys? >> there has been a lot of talk about this information, misinformation, and and i have some trouble with the way you characterize that the administration is anti immigrant having a campaign of anti immigrants i think the information this information we cannot be conflating the vital needs to secure the border, and medicaid what the cartels are doing in our nation, in communities like mine, against the immigration policy the truth is, i asked to submit this for the record, the article of deportation lower than obama administration under trump administration truth is they are lower than bush and clinton so if we can stop the rhetoric, it will go really far too regulate the fear that we have seen often. there are certain group, i think a mr. morial can speak to we are two years out of harvey we, still cannot build foot the people, so they can come back to the community do you have any suggestion for that? >> it's we have had similar issues after hurricane michael hit and the panhandles we still have several communities rural communities who don't have electricity this in their home so, we are identifying what they are, and getting friends or relatives where they can stay with, that we are trying to make sure that we count those displaced families. >> how do you do that? >> like i said, every community is different, so we were working through different organizations that may know someone has been displaced and make sure they don't fall through the scrubs. >> i would like to just reflect, on this, this after hurricane harvey, the sense bureau made special efforts to, count homeless people, they sent to them to our people are. so it's important census bureau walk with people, in those areas where people have been displaced whether it's in texas, or puerto rico, or anywhere we have had a hurricane's, or fires that, they work with local officials local officials know where those displaced people are, sending enumerators to those areas the only way we can count it is to use numerators, if they are not at their customary physical address, it requires a special effort by the senses, and using sophisticated technology of the society we know where they have been displaced and so it requires a special effort again i encourage, to talk to censorable. >> gentleman the time has expired, i now yield at his request to mr. meadows briefly out of order to for the clarify his point of clarification. >> i want to come back to all of you because my question was not a gotcha question you answered or trying to answer it honestly, what i was talking about federal funding, i was talking about federal, some of you received federal funding, we know that, so my question would've been accurately, do any of you receive federal funding directly or indirectly to support your sense work, in that way you can answer the negative as you did, or at least a to answer truthfully? >> the leadership conference this not. >> we received no federal funding. >> the educational funding does not receive one cent of federal funding. >> the council for american indians does not receive federal funding. >> we do not receive an thing. >> i thank chairwoman for allowing us to clarify that. >> i now yield to the gentleman from california. >> five minutes. >> thank you chairwoman, this is a very important topic clearly, a proper sense is found it's a rural issue and urban issue a u.s. issue we want to make sure we count everybody i represent orange county in california, the 40th district in the district we have an area known as the little saigon includes bars, and garden grove. the communities, i think it's an example of hearts account places. so what i really want to talk about with all of you, is the goal of having partnership with specialists, helping with census efforts, so we do get accurate count and all communities. these specialists tend to be trusted local voices who served as critical liaisons between the census bureau and the local communities. yet the census bureau has reportedly failed to meet its own deadlines for hiring partnership specialists, raising questions about effectiveness of this program, can you explain why this is so important in increasing census participation, in hard to count communities? >> the partnership specialists, really a reflective of local communities they, often made up of people from local communities, people who are much more trusted, and the door knocker's, and the anyone from the federal government or the bureau they have to self identified that way, so the partnership historically relied on its ability to hire robust partnership programs for that reason, i would say particularly now, because escalated fears not only on citizenship question but, the climate for immigrants in this country now the feelings vis-à -vis the federal government, it is more important than ever, that there are four hiring, for hiring is done we, got those partners in every communities, in places like little saigon where there will be language various as well. >> some people have just jested that the advertising campaign that we do, website to provide, significant in the nation suffice yet? i think you would recognize and agree we need more, because of the partner ship specialist provide more than that, i like you to elaborate a little on that. >> yes they provide more than just the partners in education they, also they're also trained in language i my college mystery on spoke of the challenges that the little saigon would face, and partnership program without it. they're more they're, much more engaged in the local level and the, with members of the community in the way that no amount of media, or communications it's all vital but it's not gonna have the same reach. >> so we know these specialists play an incredible role in making sure we get an accurate census count the census bureau is supposed to have 1500 specialists hired by june 30th 2019. they missed it. they set a revised target by september 2019 and, they miss that again in december, so what concerns they have about the delay in hiring of these partnerships my specialists? major concern is >> that there will be sufficient time to make sure that they're adequately chained to do the job that they're supposed to be doing now, the media campaign is beginning in january, first days we need specialists on the ground now just tired but you know what is going on and one of the challenges we've had is we have encountered specialist that are not well inform themselves about the census operations and if i can use this opportunity to make a recommendation to the congressman from texas the royal community, my advice would be should look about where and your district people will not received mailings because many rural community will not get any mail they will be hand delivered a senses farm for update leave so my recommendation is everyone needs to understand what the operation will conduct in your districts because not everyone will get mail and specialists need to be informed about that so my concern is not only are we behind in the hiring but there's not enough time to make sure they're fully trained so that there are accurately informed about the process. >> to say in another way we want to make sure not only do we hire those that we committed to hire to make sure they have the appropriate skill set but equally important they have the proper training so that they can do their job. >> thank you very much, i yield back madam chair. >> i now yield to mr. cloud for a union and unanimous request. >> thank you for your thoughts. i ask unanimous consent to put into the record an article from the hill, deeper deviations lower under trump than obama. >> without objections. >> i now recognize miss milley miller west virginia. >> thank you women maloney and thank you all for being here today, i've heard a lot about what constitutes her to count population and so i like to offer to you a different perspective from my state west virginia, it's extremely role and it is filled with beautiful hills that contain many small communities individual homesteads and places where families have proudly lived for generations, navigating the state reaching out to these communities often multiple times in ensuring that every individual is counted in the right place is no easy feat. behind me displayed is a map of my district four of the 18 counties in my district have 100% of the population living in hard to count neighborhoods, i have spent last year visiting each one of these counties and i can tell you from firsthand experience how rural the communities are, furthermore an additional five counties have over 60% of the population living in hard to counted neighborhoods, that's half, many of these counties also have lower percentages of those who males back their census forms in 2010 and required a cloth food proof to people. it's important that this committee considers how to address hard to count populations as we do take rural communities into account. mr. more i have enjoyed listening to your testimony today because you have so many good ideas about how to engage the rural communities. one thought i had is we have a lot of mood pant -- food pantries and mobile food pantries all over our state and i think that might be a good way as well to spread the news about the census, we also have mobile mammograms, are there any unique ways that you have found success in reaching these hooks. >> again i'm not familiar with your district and i don't know why they would be classified as hard to count but. >> the mountains. >> i understand that, geography, in the county i will mentioned about the success we had i never knew we had a homeless population but we do, in a soup kitchen we made it available for people to participate in this census there, i mentioned churches for schools in several of our panelists have said that we were doing our booth group we asked it where they got news, and who were there trusted sources in many of them came back to their pastors if they went to church and energy teachers or guidance counselors and we use both of those as options to try to get outreach. but again, a recreates a bridge, what works and what will work in another so that's why it's critical that you have a complete count committee, someone had mentioned earlier that a lot of times the government takes the lead and that is true but we have very successful counties where family connections which was not profit because they work with a lot of hard to count populations, they do it with them on a daily basis, i think that's why perspective, it's a little different than others, working with the development authorities working with communities and see what works so you have to come up with ideas and suggestions and best practices to put together a plan that work best for them. >> well much of my district because of the hills, the mountain, the geography or without the internet and you know since this is the first time people can respond online how have you addressed the lack of -- >> we have a lot of rural counties that don't have adequate internet there's two, things one, if you are into area that doesn't have internet the first letter we should have a written form and they could fill out in the fifth letter will also have a run in form that they can fill out and then trying to promote it, sprain flings, made a parades, anything where you have a lot of people set up tents, promoted, have educational opportunities tell them what it is and what it isn't and encourage him to felt the senses while they are there, we have mentioned the libraries the state of georgia allocated money to libraries to put in materials to promote the census because many of our people have said they don't have internet when they go to the library. >> so do the homeless as well. >> that's another great point food big, kitchens, churches anything and i've had people say that there's only 50 people if you have someone that has influence over 50 people they need to be engaged in your community because you want to count everyone that you can. >> i like your trusted sources, thank you i yield back. >> thank you, i want to comment you brought a lot of information about rural america and how to address it and the theme of libraries i represent an urban area but we are using our libraries as a center for the homeless for other people who don't have internet out people there to help them that is a real resource that we need to build on in our communities, that want to thank you for you bringing that information to us. >> i now recognize mrs. kelly of illinois for her questions for five minutes. >> thank you for being here thank you for your patients. i know how important the censuses, illinois has lost a congressperson and i think every day caid for five decades and it looks like we're gonna lose another one people don't fill it out we might lose to so in my office we take it upon ourselves and we do census briefings all over my district is urban suburban and roll and the rule part of my district 40% of my constituents don't have access to the internet so we will be using the library. also in my district there's a lot of concern about the citizenship question from, in particular my lad annexed population because they talk to us about it a lot but i want to talk about the census bureau itself because people are concerned about their privacy in october 2019 gao issued a report about the 2020 census operations and in the report they found as of august 2019 many of the sentences technology systems were at risk of missing critical deadlines ahead of the census day. the report stated that at risk systems add uncertain to a highly compressed timeframe for competing system development and work. miss scooped up is the bureau ensuring there is enough time to adequately test all of the systems, what concerns do you have about it. >> thank you estimate my colleagues have already said this senses cycle we are reaching with fewer and ten tasks than in the 2010 and there's only really been one incident test and that gives us a lot less data and gives the bureau a lot less data about how to shore up technology, it is hugely important and to reach more people but it brings cybersecurity threats whether it is real or perceived the bureau has to do everything with private, federal, and state partners to ensure security, we have been pushing the euro to take necessary steps to address how new i.t. and automated systems are gonna affect the committees they are most likely to miss. we know as we said through the community map that we've worked where all of the hardest to count committees are the bureau i think should update congress when it appears before on february 12th on the status of all these activities and show that it is spending resources in a manner it is directed and further i think should press the zero to ensure that its ig systems are secure. and i can get in a couple of details there are people, need to understand also through the partnership throw graham and other work that they do that, you know kind of understand the process more it's all about making sure that cybersecurity is strong. >> does anyone else want to add anything else about concerns? >> mrs. can you briefly explain the legal protections. >> under title 13 of the census act no one is allowed to provide any individualized at a coming from the census and that is subject to a penalty of 500 dollars and six months in jail. >> five months in jail sorry five years in jail, we will say this, all of us, experiences with the staff they take that protection seriously and that is part of what mr. vargas is talking about in terms of the bureau being at trusted messenger that we rely on so those protections are absolutely in place and that is something we do need to emphasize to our community and protect from any misinformation with respect to that. >> if there is one thing that you would tell the census bureau or us about what could be done better, what would it be? just go down the line. >> broadly >> yeah. >> we have pushed very hard and appreciate the bipartisan leaders who need the funding that they needed, we have grave concerns about how they are actually using an allocating in realtime because the census is about to start about all the various programs that we know and kind of strategies to address the risks that the census is facing it is a census that is at risk and it's about whether there are hiring at fast enough pace and what their plan is with communications and programs, eighties acuity, cybersecurity and the like, you've heard many of us address these issues and i think you have to put this and ask about all of these questions because they have funding now to do everything that they need to do we believe to ensure that everyone is counted. >> it's because everyone has gone over, quickly. >> i would say bradley transparency we know that there are gaps if they let us know what the gaps are realistically all of us can help to fill those gaps but we need to know what that is. >> thank you one thing that has been effective when i talk to small groups and communities, there's really nothing there that is not personal information you have your name and your address but there is no bank account information there's no social security numbers there's nothing like that security is a big issue as something you have to address and i think once you actually run through the questions they may feel a bit better about it because i think there's a misconception that they're going to hack the census database and they're gonna have all your personal, information and that's just not the case with the data that is collected. >> thank you very much and mr. higgins of louisiana is recognized for five minutes for questions. >> thank you madam chair and i thank the panelists, i surf a district in louisiana, 24% of my constituents are thought of as hard to count, thank you for being here, my fellow louisiana citizens,, my family was friends with dutch, law he spoke well of your. family >> thank. you >> we will go through fast and moving in a positive direction i believe for the purpose of our hearing and i'm gonna ask you to answer a couple of questions by yes or no, let me clarify that i supported totally accurate count regarding our census, it's crucial for our representative republic, support doted or direct mail census data collection and i believe it's a responsibility of all of us to determine what's the best way to have a 100% accurate count. however there is moralities to face so by show of hands, have been if you ever worked for the census bureau on this tree each collecting census data door-to-door? let the record reflect that no member raise their hand. >> my next question by yes or no please. >> thank you for your service, my second question, and yes no and this is not a gotcha question i just asked for genuine answer, do you recognize that some communities and some demographic groups are more closed culturally and just by tradition has it inch to interact with those outside of their community, yes or no. >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> >> yes. >> yes. >> that they reflect that all the panelists responded yes, so here's an interesting question regarding how we move forward to see 100% should always be our goal, 100% accurate count, do these american communities that have cultural or traditional hesitancy to communicate in census collection data efforts, do they have the right to determine there on a level of interaction with government or those outside their community? do they have that right? mascoutah >> yes. >> >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> i don't quite understand the question. >> does a member of community that has a tradition of hesitancy to provide data to senses researchers, do they have that right? >> i think they have that right. but i think they have a responsibility to participate in the census. >> i think they have the right but it is required by law they participate. >> but they have the right to resist, it would be incumbent upon us to outreach and communication into these competing cities to encourage and seek that are census data but they have the right to resist. >> just so are clear on that because i was a patrol man on the street in 2010 and it was a common call doing a census collection when a suspicious person. there was a great hesitancy, this was in 2010 sometimes we had multiple calls a day on the same census work, now since 2010 there is been an overwhelming number of scams we email, telephone, increased exponentially at its larger teach targeted, i believe this decade passed will certainly influence a greater number of american communities and individual families and households to resist the efforts to collect data and i think there is a great deal of emphasis to place on a citizenship question at the expense of overlooking the fact that we have allowed it to manifest in our nation an environment that we encourage our citizens on a daily basis, if you don't know the person calling on your phone don't answer your, phone if you're not familiar with the emails don't open an attachment. this has been made manifest over the last ten years and i think as a nation we have to get our heads wrapped around this because i believe one of the largest demographics that will not be counted is our elderly and those that feel under threat so madam chair allow them to choose among themselves. >> someone may respond if they like to is there anyone who would like to respond. >> briefly and our focus groups we received by the elderly is a population that's more inclined to voluntarily respond to the census because they've done it before and they see it as their civic duty. i understand your concerns about privacy but traditionally that has been one that has had a higher response rate. >> if i may you speak to resist, i did ten years on the streets of baltimore city doing what you did as mr. morrison said earlier one size doesn't fit all when you look at different areas in different districts and why a people, or a group of people may resist in one area may not be transferable to the other so your suggestion respectfully that people have a right to resist and then followed up with a security concern based on fraud on the internet and other locations and things right across on their daily lives has been transferable to all these resistant communities as being a primary cause for suggesting that is dubious as best it is a resistance for a totally different reason which has nothing to do with anything that you spoke to it has to do with historical mistreatment through a couple hundred years. periods when they were into even allowed to vote or where citizens that coverage to periods where this country try to terminate american indian ancestry. >> okay so when you look at why we may be a little hesitant it has nothing to do with that it has more to do with properly communicating educating and connecting with the culture and tradition that exists on individual indian reservations. and understanding what that is so i have to say that in response to your suggestion to try to pigeonhole the panel and recognizing certain things with the yes or no answer and extrapolating some kind of. the gentleman's time has expired i find it not shocking that most of america considers us all dubious. >> thank you michigan is recognized for five minutes of questions >> i think the question my colleague posed this gives us more of a drive and responsibility to make sure that we address the concerns and that we are sharing our outreach is inclusive and as members of congress i must ensure that all hard-to-reach hard to count communities are included, unfortunately the presidents continue mentions of citizenship as sparked fear today we have an opportunity to help correct that injustice my home district is detroit city undercounted in the census with a large minority population who speaks dozen of languages are critical that the census bureau take every step it can to ensure that the hard to read populations in our communities are reached after the 2010 census the census reported that it undercounted african americans by 2% and hispanics by 1.5 and american indian and alaskan's by 5% according to the 2010 sentences my district time is home to over 400,000 african american, 34,000 hispanics and 1500 american indian, which equates to a district that is seriously at risk of being undercounted if those undercount trends continue my district will see hundreds if not thousands of individuals not accounted in the 2020 census, in addition to that 10% of my district is born in another country, largest groups from eastern europe iraq bangladesh and the mexico india and yemen the list goes on my home state of michigan stand to lose billions of dollars and we are already rated one of the worst in the country and access to clean drinking water you all know the story of planned health care education and more at the 2020 census is not properly done i am concerned because the census bureau followed behind in the hiring of the 2020 census that may not have the man pair are in needs to conduct follow-up operations to ensure that everyone fills off the census in november 2019 the independent expect or general at the department of congress raised concerns about delays the ig found that the census bureau information technology systems used failed several tests and i quote present a risk to success completion of our census mrs. goop doug you have an issue with the pace of the census hiring today. yes i do and i think several of our panelists do for the very reason that you said this program is important to secure an accurate count for some of the hard to reach communities and the census bureau acknowledged that it's behind and it has issued a press release stating that the census bureau needs more applicants and all 50 states do you believe that the census bureau is doing all i can to recruit and hire and the question that we should be asking today as members of congress what can we do because we must act do you have recommendation and give me an assessment of your hiring it's time to bring the alarm bell on this program they are behind there is no strategy to catch up they have to hire 500,000 people every hard to count community whether it's in black land acts american indian or asian american is over reliant on the success of the numerator program and what they need to do is hold emergency hiring fares they need to decouple their total reliance and on the line hiring system they need to do what anyone would do and an emergency and that is to say our process sees by utilizing our process easily fond behind and therefore we need to change wise people change fools never and if they continue along the course they're going they will not hire enough people and an undercount is preordained. >> number two this congress appropriated 90 million dollars for mobile questionnaire assistance centers we have no information that they have stood up to the implementation of that program and to add to this decisions made years ago to reduce the number of local partnership offices means that those partnerships specialists once again they are far behind in hiring have a broader geographic area to cover so what they should do they should go into some of these areas and set up emergency partnership offices my point is as we sit here in january with the questions the first letters to go out and less than 60 days we need to ring the alarm bell and dend that there be adjustments in their approach or the result is not gonna be what we want thank you your time is expired and mr. color of pennsylvania is recognized for five minutes thank you and i just want to get into the census information we know it's used for congressional district says it is been it was designed for that purpose and now it's also used to distribute more than 600 billion dollars per year and our communities so it's very important and i want to thank the panel for being here to discuss this issue. >> pennsylvania tenth congressional district has many rural areas where the senses have hard to count populations. the village i live and has a population of less than 1000 and again these areas will be hard to reach by the census, looking at this i think it is important, we look back on what we've been able to accomplish in 1969 putting a man on the moon and returning him safely to earth and we can do this in 1969 where in 2020 and i think that we need to look at it's essential we put forward strategies in the use of that technology that we've gone over the years to ensure that the communities are properly counted and they are set to begin in a few short months i looked at what happened and some examples of what happened restaurant with your work and jean georgia prior to 2010 it's an example of reaching her to count communities. what could you say more about your efforts and how those efforts might help other parts of the country count some of these areas that are hard to count using and again i'm gonna say with the use of technology you see that being a part of what we can do. >> the use of technology means sharing with other regions? >> i mean with the fact that certain things we can pinpoint in all use an example we all use gps so we have incredible mapping to know where homes are and to know where people live and i think we talk about hard to count populations and most under five is what i've seen how can we make sure reaching all the households? >> from the 2010 census, your coverage for crack members you also have a lot of different punctuates. everyone probably knows what it is but i can't remember what the acronym stands for. we recorded every address in jordan and had one of the highest participation rates and that is one of the things that determines where the mail is gonna go and the ones that don't respond it gives you an address where they can go door-to-door and you have 1000 percent community that you required about. >> not just that one but it's an example of what it looks. like >> i would a suggest that they have their own because again they're gonna be more familiar with where people congregate and who the trusted voices are four different segments coming up with a plan to make sure that everyone is educated and aware of the census and why it is important and they're motivated to respond when they get the first one in the mail and instead of having someone dragging him to do what you want to make it where they realize again how important is and they voluntarily fill it out in the first time they get a male or so for everyone that we're dealing with it's trying to have the highest percentage of people voluntarily fill out the senses. >> i know you probably didn't answer directly but i want to share with you suggestions and ideas that we have with other communities and follow up with that. >> we want to make sure we accurately count everyone and we all ran for election and we seem to find out where people are that vote be able to mail them things and things like that but i find a very shocking that we don't have a uniform system and we not actually able to find it out when it comes to counting people that live in the united states so i think that there are some things that we can do i just wonder more of that sharing how do we get more of that best practices and that's exactly what i'm gonna call it. best practice we have a plan for our counties in the state and would be glad to share it and we have probably six to ten counties outside that we are supporting and we'd be glad to share. >> the gentleman's plan expired but we need best practices that we could use across the country and something we can get the census bureau to pull together for all of us from the testimony of the panelists together and that's a very important point. >> i guess i would just ask the people at the table if you shared best practices because i would encourage you if you haven't already done it to look at what other people are doing to sell this and best practice. >> the chair recognizes ocasio-cortez. >> thank you madam chairwoman and all the witnesses that offer testimony today and we've had several hearings on the census in some of you have come and offered your expertise and we thank you for that i think after the past year of so many developments going on. particularly when it comes to the question and documents status a lot of havoc in confusion that has been unleashed we know has really created a lot of fear in communities throughout one of the constitutional operations that we have to yale miss scooped up will the 2020 census ask people about their should citizens status. his feeling it out safe? >> it is safe and confidential. >> on that will and individuals personal information be shared from the 2020 census? >> federal law prohibits the sharing of census information with any other government agency so it is illegal for any of your individual information to be shared by the census correct? >> that is right doing know how serious of a crime it is, is it a misdemeanor or is a very serious? >> it is very serious the federal law on this is very robust in part because the consequences would being credibly grave and it would be very serious, a serious crime. >> so let's talk about the potential outcome of not counting a community so let's say i wanted to manipulate people's ability to return or their willingness to return and so people out of it. why would i potentially want to do something like that? >> you may want to do it to encourage communities that are devout for one party or another to stay out of the census for political gain and you might want that to happen because you don't believe that certain segments of the community are serving on the same social services everyone else but it is against the law and rain in the constitution that the duty of the federal government is to count every single person regardless of status. >> so there is political motive as to why somebody would want to undercut certain communities in the census. >> yes i would say that citizenship litigation and the supreme court found that even the impetus and motive for adding that question was motivated by partisan gain and doctor thomas hofeller's memos that were discovered in the course of that litigation unfortunately revealed that there was an effort to weaponize the census for partisan gain when in fact it should be the core government institution and function that is free from politics. >> so we have seen that there is a documented paper trail here that the desire to scare our immigrant communities out of answering the census is to help and add political gain to this and potential atlanta unfortunately we have concrete evidence of that being the case and look no further of the memo advocating for the addition of the citizenship question to advantage non hispanic whites. >> so let's see, let me move on, i understand your organization issued a report for the commission on the census and what did this report find about trust? and likely census respondents in the community? that community which was bipartisan and shared by members of the board of education and the state developed california had hearings around the country and her testimony for community leaders that emphasize just overall not just among latinos or immigrants but overall the american public there is a growing mistrust of institutions and contact government in information online and these are old challenges that the census bureau understands that they are facing and are working to overcome which is why the resources that they needed for their communication campaign is so essential. >> mr. gupta let's talk about the stakes if we don't answer the census will that impact our school funding? >> absolutely. >> does it impact funding for a? roads >> yes. >> in our communities? >> yes. so if we don't answer the census our kids won't be able to have textbooks teachers on the ratios that they need schools that are being built we also have i represent one of the most undercounted districts in the country would also represent one of the most over counted districts when it comes to schooling that is -- >> yes there are broad implication for how many teachers to students there are in any school district, health care, hospitals, roads, infrastructure, it has very real impact on real actual living communities when people are rendered invisible. >> thank you very much. >> thank you our next question air will be congressman armstrong from the great state of north dakota. >> thank you so rule communities aren't yay -- i can't talk about georgia with any particular degree of accuracy but i can talk to north dakota both on and off the reservations because outside of all the historical stuff there are some unique challenges because of the location and how we deal with this so the census bureau defines hard to count as hard to interview and persuade and these are the biggest challenges and when we talk rule community mr. moore there is a big distinction from a town of junior people to all the people who live around that town of 200 people and so what is one of the biggest challenges when trying to count rural communities? >> again it's just the diversity and trying to find sources where people congregate and have those trusted voices and people on the panel mentioned it may have people that you trust and the may not listen having a diverse group that can address everyone in the communities going to have one of the greatest impacts and in research in china find out what is effective in what is not effective and how much everyone responded that and have the census data impacted their family. they all respected how it impacted their children and most of them say that they trust teachers or guidance counselors so again trying to find those trusted forces and getting that information out while in advance of the census. >> i want to go to this because and i want to ask how do we recruit more people from the tribe to work on this because i've done a lot of work on reservations in north dakota just the efficiency of having someone from their are doing it. north dakota we have a lot atlanta. dealing with those issues. >> so congressman thank you for racing that there is a lot of challenges and you are correct the nature of where these native communities are makes it difficult. >> a simple as not having nine one one addresses. >> and as simple as what we take for granted having access to the internet. >> and so when you look at your normal methods of communication, let's just look at it in a couple silos we asked how do we get people how do they come from indian country, well census is movement towards filling these positions through online networks has complicated the issue for us has had a major impact on a number of people that have the validity to do that. >> so we strongly suggest that let's go back to the old paper way as mr. morion mentioned it is crunch time when congressman early was speaking about hirings and the specialists they start in alaska in two weeks and there are no native alaskan's as partnership specialists, zero. which is very shocking and alarming and in part because of the enormous hurdles it is now and the wait time and how long it takes to become an employee with the u.s. census bureau so we really need to consider that that is an additional pylon in addition to all this stuff you and i already know about this community. >> that would be my question have you ever looked at the number of census workers per citizen and rule areas versus urban areas. the efficiency has significantly decreased when you have to drive 60 miles between residents. >> speaking from my perspective committees i'm familiar with we talk about partnership specialist so they're all great people with little stretch they did that's not the only solution there there to try to help the communities get together and be there on a more frequent basis but if you're going to follow that model you definitely need more people serving a smaller geographic area, i will close with this i think we take for granted nine one one addresses cell service internet and land lines and i can tell you in rural areas none of those exist in those areas and there more exacerbated than the traditional area so thank you very much, thank you for raising some interesting points missed a leap from michigan. >> thank you madam chair thank you all for being here one of the things we have been distracted and understanding i think what it really means for us to just primarily due this initial around online and really the crisis i think we have one it comes to the census is the fact that it has to rely on access to broadband internet and it's not just my communities like in wayne county it's like community rule america there is so much emphasis on investing only on having this all be online and then in return they're saying if we're gonna go online then we don't need that many folks on the ground we don't need that this office is secretary ross said he was reducing these offices by 50% primarily because they were going on line now last census i think it was one out of three did not return their responses in the initial round do you know one out of nine americans don't have access to internet and not only that combine that with the fact that they are going to hire 125,000 less people, fewer people to actually try to get people counted, all that combined i think for me when we think about the communities that we are talking about here, i think we are under estimating what this really means the fact that this is the first time ever in the history of our country that we are going to go completely on line and rely on that initial touch now i know this and i would ask my colleagues, don't use the broadband internet in this chamber or at home, try to go fill out the census on your own when you don't have access to that and people need to understand some can't even afford internet access it's an affordability issue not only an access issue of it being available so i want to ask each and every one of you all the critical importance of understanding what this is really going to mean because resources are down, they are going to hire less than 100 and thousands of people on the ground they have the coalition of people meeting trying to raise money with foundations and private folks, the wayne county community that reference that i represent the wayne county representative is really taking the lead and saying we have to count everyone and i appreciate his leadership on that but what is worrisome to me is that on this i have folks with ipads at the bus stops or outside schools trying to explain to folks guest one no one's coming knocking on your door you're not gonna get something in your mailbox you have to go online into a right there online, now majority of my residents use their phone that's not gonna work, not only that it's not safe and secure period and so i want to hear from every single one of you with regards to that because they don't want us to deter from this major change and how we are counting folks this year you have made a very important distinction, it's not the first online senses it's the first census in which online responses are available. >> so that is something we need to educate our community on, that's not your only option you can still get a written form or by the fourth mailing if you have not responded you will get a written response in the mail but there's difficult responses with rule housing but there is a one 800 number you can call part of the education certainly for the asian american community is there's a reluctance to use it online even if it is available we show that paper form is still preferred so that's part of education again it's for an inning with the census bureau to make sure they understand that and they're starting to understand that more initially they were saying how it would be wonderful and more efficient and they backtracked on their credit to some of that messaging but we need to continue to emphasize how closely we need to tie all of that together. >> i would invite congress to actually pay close scrutiny to make sure the census bureau has the capacity to be able to intake millions of americans going online all at once to try to provide the census information i firmly believe that we need a plan b and that the census bureau needs to make sure it has an adequate supply of paper form should something happen and the computer low capacity not work as we saw previously, i would just add to that i really a pre-show you bring up the cost issues it's costly for individuals connections speed and higher speeds cost more money and we know which communities have access to higher connectivity in the light and it's because of the shortages it's been really important as advocates to make sure that cities and states are engaged in putting money towards this fight that you have complete networks that are locally based and rooted and shockingly we have several states that still have not set up any committees we've had several states that have refused to put any dollars towards the census when we know about all the unique challenges that the 2020 census will be facing but there are significant places to put a positive piece on this there have been a lot of cities and states and ngos that have been stepping up to deploy and make wi-fi centers available and devices available public spaces for households through the senses but we know that it is not a can structural answer to some of the issues that you're talking about and then we talked about the cybersecurity concerns that we are all very mindful of. >> chairman if you don't mind i would like to submit a record by one of our commissioners without objection i recognize mitt supporter of california for questions. >> this committee has had a lot of discussion about government programs an incomplete count. i wanted to talk about how important a fair and accurate census is for this. i'm a pro capitalist but i want that capitalism to create opportunities for everyone and to do that we need an accurate count an accurate count is a critical tool that helps businesses grow and helps creates jobs enough some serve all the communities. >> mister chair i'd like to enter into the record businesses and businesses organizations that they filed an opposition to president trump's senses changes. >> the companies that have summit this come from different regions and approaches, los angeles chambers of commerce and located in orange county and then in this brief they say without accurate census data wish to base locations they would youth who become central to their survival and grout. they also said where to place a store other facility can harm businesses but also communities that need or don't need such a facility. >> it's not just what's about on your shelf, the national association provides information on the number of renters, fair and ain't accurate information. >> as a leader in this area what partnerships have you or could you to reach these communities. >> look many have been working very closely with trying to get more corporate partners and helping to get out the couch and we have seen a number of companies step up for the many reasons that many of articulated in their brief about their concern about the citizenship question companies understand the business case for an accurate census they are confirmed about marketing decisions location decisions and the like as you mentioned so we had some success i getting big companies with huge footprints to get more engaged in this effort to get different companies to do for marketing and advertising they're using their platforms to get employees, tens of thousands, in some cases hundreds of thousands but we also say more companies to be engaged, you may be hearing this from all of us this is an all hands on deck moment, someone had said we have to shake the alarm right now because this is happening, we are days away from the count. >> have you tried to do this and if so what feedback have you received? >> even get to a number of businesses, encourage employees to participate in the census and convince them that everyone in this spheres of influence and networks also participate in the census but also to incorporate messages as they reach out to the customers and clients. businesses themselves can also be trusted if they have provided census information. >> i met with chamber of congress and how brand this is, they have their own resources towards helping and in form this to do exactly this work and the leaders of the roundtable that they say they want to engage this at every level to put some muscle behind this initiative. >> we are engaged with this on this very question. >> with my remaining time i'd like to highlight something that's come to my attention and as a consumer protection advocate the problem of people taking ain't to create a scam so saying that they've been selected to participate in a census and they've given a for voter number, something that is very similar but these are actually political tools and so i've written to the attorney of california and i try to shine the light of that and i've not received helpful responses and i'm gonna follow up on this with the census director when it comes but i just want to talk about the importance of the education as you doing your outreach and my time has expired. >> i like to recognize miss holland. >> thank you all so much for taking the time to be here and for your hard work on behalf of the underrepresented people in our country thank you for your persistence and integrity in the face of opposition for the higher purposes of equality and justice which is what all of you are doing when you're doing this work, i need to mention something for the record because it was raised earlier by my colleagues and i'd like to say that this entire company was wench, federal recognition is a process that was of staff published because of colonialism, so it was enrolled in a federal recognize tribe they have been winter they should answer the senses in that way if that's how they're indemnified, there are tribes that aren't stage or federal recognized however they have a family history that they are indigenous to this continent battle, the way that family history requires an obligates them to. now on to some questions, the census bureau has had ten years to prepare for the 2020 census and to address the severe undercount of native americans in the last census, they know the vast majority of responses will have to be done by in-person enumerators, keeping in mind that our state of new mexico has largely -- in several largely diverse indian nations, not only is it census bureau behind on hiring staff but it took congressional intervention in my home state of new mexico to get the regional census office to order printed translation guys in the navajo language, it's the largest indian population in my state, and they're not only that but they have a language that is tough on rose that is stone for example. i'm directing this question to mr. alice but i encourage all of you to submit this. from your experience do you believe that the officials understand the unique challenges to promote tribal language needs and if not what actions do you think the bureau should probably were time to assure a full counted second please give us an idea of just how important it is to counter urban indian populations. thank you congresswoman and two great questions, i do recognize that 78% of the native american community in new mexico is in a hard to count area significant populations so does the u.s. census bureau really understand our needs? that's a tough question to answer, i don't know if it's a yes or no answer or if it's fair, we work with, a it's important that we work with that we get a lot with, them they have taken strides to try and address some of our issues and some of our concerns that we have articulated through the years however and as you mentioned earlier this is not a complaint about funding congress has done its job this is about operational decisions they've made and when you look at some of the things they've made we do have to question whether they do fully understand the needs and the problems that exist by way for instance how they are staffing their team and putting that together and also not necessarily communicating with any of us on the mobile questionnaire program house that gonna work who's gonna do that what's the vision for that so although they have identified the barriers taken in the time to identify the barriers and a general lack of knowledge and proper messaging it's questionable whether operational decisions have gone to address those how important is to that you know we are very unique we are a political group and also a lot of this country doesn't understand we are one of the three sovereigns that articulate the constitution and we are just the lifeblood of any sovereign entity its tax base it's being able to get our resources from its tax base and we don't have that option that doesn't exist we don't have that lifeblood our lifeblood is the federal funding for education infrastructure that has been promised to us in treaties and trust responsibility and that funding is directly impacted by the census of that hasn't come off right and if we are not properly counted our lifeblood is coming right off and whether you're a tribal sovereign government whether stage or even being you stop your lifeblood and you die and so that is how important is and the really unique distinction that separates indian country from our other partners that i think people really need to understand. >> now i like to recognize miss pressley i represent the massachusetts seven and boston makes the top of my district and out of the 100 largest cities it is ninth in being hardest to count its vibrant and diverse but one of the most unequal in the country and certainly true when it comes to health outcomes and so census data is used to allocate hundreds and billions of dollars for health care programs most people are unaware that includes medicaid and the children's health insurance program they provide coverage to millions of families trying to make ends meet, can you explain how census data determines this. >> well it is the basis by which these really large federal programs are gonna be able to allocate dollars per person in districts and so literally an undercount of people in your community will result in smaller black grounds being given through these programs for kids to get the health care that they need and of course we know also about health care disparities already so the consequences of an arctic undercount in communities, the health care consequences are gonna be that much more dire. >> can you just elaborate a little more on that how would feeling to count harder to reach communities in the sense is further entrench already existing barriers. >> well there have been a wealth of information showing the degree to which health care disparities hit low income communities, communities of color at a highly disproportionate rage, when you think about if you're thinking about structural issues like the allocation of federal dollars to support programs that are specifically targeted to address those gaps, in close the chasm if there is an undercount of those communities it becomes this vicious cycle and undercount of those communities the dollars that are allocated for the programs intended to reach them are then also diminished and reduced, so becomes a structural vicious cycle. >> thank you what is this mean for land next communities that are already uninsured at disproportionately higher rates. >> the irony is that when it community suffers the services that are based on census data more than delivered less so to those same community so take the example of children, they are the most frequently undercounted population in the country, 400,000 very young latino children were not counted in the 2010 census so all of the daily data and programs that are designed to benefit young children are off because the numbers are wrong, if your numbers are wrong and -- >> is a year opinion that this could disproportionally worsen incomes in the black community on issues like mortality or other health disparities. >> all across the board every single health disparity would be exacerbated by this because the list and the range of programs that rely on census data is long indeed, i think it's approximately 800 million in the federal budget is allocated based on the data collected by the census so it stands to reason whether it is children's health and program head star you can go down the line it's so essential we have to communicate that to our communities but that's why we have a whole census accountable to do the right thing and make sure that everyone is counted, the impact is political when it comes to a portion of every single office in the country for whom the people are elected by district, the impact his economic because it affects many, the impact also goes beyond that because as one of the members asked earlier the entire framework for market used by the private sector. by the media companies is based on census data our own state of black america report is based entirely on this, large part on census at. >> thank you and with my remaining time yes or no if any of you have thoughts in 20 seconds as to whether or not incarcerated men and women should be counted and included in this census according to the home committees there from and not where they are being mostly warehouse. >> yes, yes, yes. >> let me say this we had the census bureau on the brink of reversing this just before the 2016 election the 2016 election impacted this so the census bureau is on the verge because we act to for many years and they change so those that are incarcerated are counted to their home district in the election impacted this, it is not fair, it is not appropriate to allow those counties where that happened to house correctional facilities to get a disproportionate share of resources as well as political power because they just happen to be the place where incarcerated people are. i urge congressman clay has a bill that would reverse this, he's not here but his seat is there and i think we need to make a priority to push that bill so that this is not the case and that 2020 census. >> thank you i think time has expired are frozen in time 14 seconds for a minute i like to recognize wasserman for questions. >> thank you mister chairman and welcome to our panelists thank you so much for being here and for your work every single day we see the census bureau announced a campaign that includes targeted hard to read hard to count community so that we can increase messaging because that will obviously increase participation and make sure that more robust funding is available when we know how many people we have not been able to reach this culturally sensitive advertisement is particularly violent in an area like mine where land american migrants trusting government has been eroded due to trump's attempt to propose a citizenship question. i represent counties in south florida that are considered one of the hardest accounts counties in my state, so there are obviously major concerns about gaps and media coverage in my own community in many places, if hard to count groups are not properly engaged on the importance of the timeline it could lead to a significant undercount and for example there is a question mark in florida as to whether or not we will add one seed or two seats to our congressional delegation and this media campaign can make a very significant difference and whether it's one or two and then if you have more elected officials representing your state, more advocacy, to say nothing of the allegation with state formulas based on the census, so it's good to see you really glad you're here one of the things and i'm concerned about is that there is likely a gap in the outreach budget that the administration has announced to count african americans. >> what effect could a gap in media and communication advertising have on the black community. >> it means that political representation is gonna be affected, and undercut means that federal funds are gonna be affected and it goes all the way down the line in effect city council seats county commission seats justice in peace seats and not to mention members of the state legislation, members of congress and the 40 states that alike judges some elected from districts all of this could be affected by this and it is a particular concern for african americans and i know other communities because our populations are growing and we want the census to capture the growth in our populations and that to be translated into the process, into the process in terms of how federal funds are allocated, so it's a grave issue and it's important to be complete and accurate. >> to be clear specifically like you said the african american population is growing so if there is an undercount because of the way redistricting works you have decisions made about where and a stage or in a community a new district would be added if you undercount the population that has grown then that community is less likely to get representation. had they community count be in maximized, when you add to that the fact that we don't have section five for the states at this point in time the risk is grave and that is why all of us here united in saying to you as the house oversight committee the power is in your hands to hold census accountable and mr. vargas talked about a plan b i talked of a state of emergency whatever is required between now and march, april, the census bureau has to step up it's game it has to fill in these gaps and has to respond to the concerns we raised or the risk for the nation and the risk for our communities is grave. >> as i heard you say earlier specifically having a media reach out -- campaign in between the enumerators begin going door to door so that there is awareness that they're coming, i know when i go door to door in my district if i ascend the mailing into that precinct announcing that i'm coming the open rate of the door is more significant because they are left fearful. >> and also we can less the bureau trick us because they have these terms non response follow-up and primary, so advertising company has to run all the way to the end until the final day when people can fill out a form and a response to the census. >> thank you so much in my last few seconds i represent florida and clearly native americans would be a population that is usually undercounted a lack of trust, a lack of confidence in the official government of the united states so what kind of outrage are you aware that has been included by the administration to make sure there's not an undercount among native americans? >> thank you congresswoman for that question as congresswoman holland asked me to mention, what was the census bureau doing to connect with indian country. over the course of the last ten years they have self identified barriers and hurdles that do need to be addressed which includes language, includes knowledge about why winter is the purpose of the census had to fill those things out, all those kinds of things our concern even though they've been properly funded, a lot of that stuff hasn't happened correctly and their shift in the way they want to hire people and maneuver people around and set up their infrastructure, it doesn't align with addressing those >> it's not just about throwing money at it. >> you talked about media outreach we have a lot of issues there you know alaska starts in two weeks they intended, the goal was that this campaign which have started five months ago it started in the middle of december and when it started there were mispronounce eea shuns of the villages and the tribes and it was just not clean and that is not connecting the dots that's them not doing their homework and working with indian country and preparing an awareness, of visibility that understands who the community is that they're trying to contact. >> when you have a president of the united states and even today continues to malign the end of american community by saying, unintentionally derisive moniker you can see what kind of respect and lack for the need of american committee and the goal of counting. them >> mister chairman thank you so much, i yield back. >> boats have been called and there is about nine minutes on the called so after i'm done with my questioning we will adjourn this hearing. >> so i recognize myself for question, first let me thank all the panelists for coming, this is an issue that i studied when i was in grad school back in 2001, 2002 so yes i was that door to studied the census but i also understood what it means and the history of this country, what it means when it comes to either the marginalization or the impairment of particular communities and what it means for drafting policies that reflect that demographic, where people live, how they live what they look like what are the issues that they are gonna get impacted by and that's what the census is all about. i want to encourage my colleague that consensus is not and shouldn't be used to bordered wise communities to silence voices. the changes demographics and i've been seeing over the last 20 or 30 years it is inevitable, assure as the sun rises in the weeds easton sets in the -- there are browns, latinos, and the agents that live in the midwest as well as african americans that live in the northeast, right the country is changing so we want to make sure that everyone is counted because that's how you have a truly representative democracy, so with that i want to ask a few questions, mr. vargas you are familiar with light district. >> i wanted to have a question a lot of people talked about partnership specialists, what have you been hearing on the ground about the effectiveness of the newly hired partnership specialists within the latino community, where they generally fluent in spanish where they culturally sensitive? >> some are in fact they hired excellent people that we have had the opportunity to work with but there's also been other partnerships and specialists that have not been well deployed in the sense that they don't have the skill sets, language to work in the community where they are being deployed by the census bureau and in other cases because of the timing and the rush to hire enough people, they are not adequately trained and so they are misinformed about the full range of the census, so those are the concerns that we have at this point. >> thank you another issue that is becoming extremely urgent in california is the growing homelessness population, it's something that i know there is 100, 30,000 hundred, 30,000 plus homeless individuals in california, thousands in l.a. county alone, his gupta, what do you see as the barriers to counting the homeless population and do you think that the bureau has a strategy to actually ensure that they are counted? >> well they are among the most vulnerable populations because of their transience in community and the like and i think the bureau is really gonna need to work with direct service providers, mobile food units, shelters, soup kitchens and the like as well as outdoor locations and 20 for our businesses to get an accurate count. the bureau does has strategy set to put in place but we have been urging them to do more with direct service providers in the west -- and the way that i just mentioned and also to coordinate really intensively with hard to count community leaders. to prepare a, lot of community leaders that are running these direct service soup kitchens and the like they know where the homeless populations are seasonally in their district so having a very close knit coronation is going to be vital to ensuring that homeless people are accounted for. >> i want to point out homelessness not just a korean california but throughout the country and that is gonna be a challenge for blue states as well as red states. urban areas as well as rule areas so thank you so much for all of the witnesses. for being here and testifying on this issue now it's time to make sure we get the count that we need before i. with some announcements at like to gave the ranking member a few seconds to think the witnesses. >> we had a debate there and i don't get a chance to thank you and i appreciate your testimony and what you do. >> thank you to the members first this is the first in a series of hearings we'll be having on census oversight this year and we will be sure to raise these points you have made with the director of the bureau, when it comes before the committee on february 12th as mentioned earlier so i want to thank everyone for their hard work. without objection all members will have five legislative days in which to submit these questions for the witnesses, it will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. i asked the witnesses to respond as promptly as you are able. thank you for participating and this hearing is now adjourned.
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