Insurgentsy within iran, the soviet union was trying to foster a communist insurgents in iran. We thought about that and sided with the shah of iran in part because he crushed that communist dissent in iran. I dont think most person political elites thought too much about the islamic disdents in that state. It was just kind of off the radar. Part of the reason i wrote the book i did was i was really trying to get across how reasonably so but nair rowly americans looked at alliances in that part of the world. We didnt think of islam as a political force. We feared communism. We cheered on what we thought as capitalist developed. We hoped for Democratic Development we didnt see the islamic, the green revolution that was coming. The United States and iran have had a complicated fraught relationship a long time. Really since the 1950s. Up until the 1950ss iran was a client state of great britain. But when wourmd ended and britain moved back to the colonial periphery. United states stepped forward. One of the things we did is we became very involved, irans would say very, very too much involved in their affairs. Famously in 1953, the United States using brandnew cia helped engineer a coup in iran, putting into power the shah of iran, a good dear friend of the United States. After that coup that the United States helped support in iran, iranian people were of two minds. Those pro shah, that would be maybe well to do people, secular ernest ohhed looked favorably on the United States. Its fair to say that a nair if you mean of other than iranians did not look favorably on the auns from that coup forward from 1953 until the Islamic Revolution in 1979 there were a lot of people in iran who looked at the United States and i guess the phrase eventually would become the great satan who didnt think we had the right to interfere. Its interesting to think about when the United States realized they didnt have a good handle on what was happening in iran. There were signs in the 1960s. It was interesting to have a hand in the training the new elite. If you were a bright iranian man or woman, interesting. Mostly men, you came to the u. S. University. And in starts in the 1960s. Think about whats happening in the United States in the 1960s. These young iranians are exposed not just to the wonders of the American University but to the disdents of the 1960s student movements. And that radicalized some iranians, made them think about their own voices and concern. This was a complication for americas relationship with iran. The shah of iran did not expect young people coming home with a political consciousness. We want he wanted them coming home with a tech know kratic consciousness, oil engineers, doctors not threats to the regime. The iranian revolution like any revolution is a messy affair, not clear to those revolting whats going to happen. They dont know the end point. They are living through chaos, vienlts and turmoil and vying forth legislate macy. When the iranian revolution breaks out at the cusp of 1978 and 1979 its not clear who takes control. There is always all kinds of factions. There is a communist faction. There is a democratic liberal faction. There is a parliamentary republic faction. An islamist faction that waents wants a thoe dracy. They are trying to find tools forring legislate macy. When the ayatollah returns. Its not clear he is going to be the thee owe kratic leader of country. I want epted to be that and tharp people cheering him on. About but by the summer of 1979 his faction, the more islamist faction is gaining power and prominence. But young people in particular were trying to figure out what kind of government do they want to live with. Who do they want as the leader . How do they stand up for the autonomous iran. And from the American Perspective you see a decision by some young people to unify their country. They hoped by creating an external enemy process by unifying the iranian people faction alized around one big enemy. Almost none of us in United States knew about the 1953 coup. We thought of ourselves as a good progressive force for the iranian people. Again, many did not see it that way. They had the member of the coup seered into their minds, part of their historical memory. So we are a potential enemy. We are the uns keeping the shah in power and the military in power. We gave savak the brutal force and authority. These students decide, begin to plan, lets protest against the u. S. Embassy backup there was fear the u. S. Might engineer a counter coup against the growing autonomy of the iranian people. Protests gone at the u. S. Embassy. Keep your hands off the government. Its not clear who the government is. One group of students in the midst of many protesting zunts decide that they are going to make a powerful protest against the u. S. Embassy. And again we are still even all the decades later not 100 sure what happened who thought what. There is a strong argument to be made that a group of the students from dsh universities in tehran decide to kind of emulate the africanamerican Civil Rights Movement process nef a sit in at the u. S. Embassy to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the american presence and the witness against the american power. When the iranian students decided to make the protest, witness against power, applausably hold a sitin. I think all along there were some knowing this they would go further. What happens is really a kind of catastrophic affair in so many angles. There were thousands of people protesting outside the u. S. Embassy. The one group decides, one group of students decides to climb the fence, to come into the u. S. Embassy, maybe holding a sitin. Maybe do more. And for the American Government it wasnt clear what td even at the moment of crisis. Whats the job of the u. S. Marine corps supposed to secure the embassy . Its not to face off mobs of people. We know this through subsequent tragedies. You have to count on local governments to protect the International Diplomatic immunity of the embassy personnel. The iranian government didnt do that. And those students who jumped the barricades, climbed in the embassy suddenly realized they had Carte Blanche to do what they wanted. And it very quickly did he involved into a hostage taking situation. And the americans acceded to the it takeover assuming it was shortlived. It wasnt shortlived. 444 days of the seizure of the u. S. Embassy. People understood in the embassy that trouble was brewing in iran. There was a revolution going on. There were attempts to fortify the embassy. But you can only do so much. Because there was a sense there was troubles in inn, the u. S. Embassy which had been a massive affair was huge numbers of personnel cut back to only the absolute necessary folks. I think at the moment of the iranian take overthere were 66 people still working at the embassy. This is an embassy that could have had hundreds of people in it. So the people there knew they were in a risky position, dangerous posting. But i dont think any of them expected what was happening to them. This was all occurring in november 1979, almost exactly 1 year before the president ial election. Jimmy carter is what we know is in the final year of his presidency. And he knew he was running for reelection. So this was a a difficult, arguably catastrophic event for his president ial administration. I think when it first happened when i was first alerted and alerted very quickly to what was going on, he saw it as an opportunity. So carter was being criticized from several directions. For economic reasons, for political reasons, cultural reasons. Foreign policy reasons as a weak leader. And he knew if he was going to get reelected he would have to convince the American People that he was strong, cable and that he could take care of americas business. So i think at the very beginning when this took off carter saw a chance to show leadership. Here are the thugs trying to take over the embassy in the midst of turmoil. Carter would show strong leadership negotiate his way out and there would be a happy ending. It couldnt have gone worse. So carter did something that in retrospect wasnt wise. He took upon himself the leadership for solving this what he thought was probably a shortcrisis. And he went youfrt. Talked to the American People and he talked about hands on responsibility. This is carteresque, a man very much managing the situations before had him not a delegator like Ronald Reagan would be. Carter hoped by seizing the stage, taking care of the trouble with, the American People would see him as a strong leader. He basically did everything right. Thats the irony of the situation. Got ahold of the iranians,. Talked to people he thought were responsible figures in the government. Remember, the government is fax shun alized its not clear who is in charge of what. The ayatollah was seen as a figure head, not hands on. Who to talk to was a riddle for the American Government. He got ahold of allies. Carter has that mind and step by step moved through the process to resolve the issue. What he didnt realize was that there were factions in iran that did not want to resolve this issue, that this crisis was good for the iranian factions wasnting to create an islamic state. They wanted to maintain a crisis with the United States. So the youve got an American Government trying to rationally resolved an unpleasant diplomatic problem and factions within inn who want to foster and inflame this crisis to gain legislate macy for the islamic faction who are trying to seize total control of the iranian islamic government by that time. So two negotiating partners who have very different interests. In terms of the takeover of the u. S. Embassy. Religion had always been a factor. There was a strong sense that many of those protesting outside the embassy bus remember it doesnt happen in a day. It takes place over time there were strong islamic protests in those presence. And the islamists are there of all kinds, older folks as well. So the United States government is conscious of that but dont see them as a primary threat. We are still thinking soviet union, still thinking communists, still thinking the communist party of iran. Thats the real fear. Iran can can be a proxy state of the soviet union, all the oil under the soviet control. The gulf under the control of the soviet union. We never really take as seriously as we needed to the islamic presence. It was there. It was obvious. Process the cia knew. The National Security councils knew. It wasnt foremost in their minds. What happens when the students come in and despite the fact that they claim was peaceful a few had weapons. Something was off from the beginning about the socalled peaceful intent. And they do, though, at first seize the hostaging in a sense thinking it might only be a day, two days, a few days. Its not clear whats going to happen. And as time goes on and things dont get resolved decisions are being made in all parts of the iranian government. One decision thats made is kind of fascinating. Is the iranians decide that because theyre good islamic people, its not right to keep women as hostages. This is inappropriate. So they give the women members of the delegation the right to leave. And almost all of them do. Though there is a couple of women left. Thats they make an interesting political decision. Who are the revolutionaries they say we are in solidarity with third world people all over the place. So all the black members of thedale are delegation theyre not enemies, free to go. Several of the marine guards are africanamerican, lourd to leave. And that will take up the allowance. You go from suddenly 66 down to 53 at this point. They are playing a political game. And this is done in full view of cameras. Meanwhile the iranian government is trying to decide what the heck is going on . Is this good, bad . Factions within the government are trying to resolve it. But the ayatollahs faction see it as useful. Remember the students are ones saying we are the students in line with the ayatollah. Theyre his people. And the iranian people are responding positively to this. Not everyone by any means. But a lot of iran beens are showing what for. Here we are victims of america and now we are in control of america. And this gave the ayatollahs faction a lot of credibility and legislate macy. And so, maybe we shouldnt let them go. So suddenly you get stalemate. Fairly quickly black americans are given the permission to leave if she chose. Women given permission to leave if they choose. But the others, no. There is a side story to this which is at the moment of takeover, a few American Embassy personnel escape. This is the great movie made by ben affleck and others. Six at this point americans escaped ran through the streets. Thats a whole another story. There is hostages escaping. Taking root to the American Embassy. But others blindfolded in squalor, not tortured at this point but by no means being housed comfortable. As for the government in america it was a hard set of decisions to figure out the leverage point. How do you fix it . And jimmy carter is a methodical thinker. And in a good sense he goes through every plausible avenue of possibility to release the hostages peacefully. There is economic sanctions placed and of course playing a vital role in Donald Trumps considerations later. We use the u. N. , every ali we have. Around theyre all onboard, the u. N. Is on brody, nature oallies on borja, regional allies onboard. None of it works. All along, the military has been planning for alternative scenarios. But, gosh what is it . Five months go on. Yeah, five months go on before carter finally says, well, we have now ticked through every possible point of pressure. And none are working. Gentlemen, is there anything else we can do . And the pink steps up and says, yes, sir, we have been practicing. We have a plan. And the plan is to take a few helicopters, fly them in, having already placed personnel some of this still secret. We dont know to this day every detail. But people have been placed securely near the Embassy Grounds to facility the release. But the idea was helicopters would fly in, onto the Embassy Grounds at this point called Delta Force Special operators coming in andfree the hostages. The United States military has tremendous capacities. We didnt necessarily have tremendous capacities in 1980. Remember this is now 1980, to engineer this kind of clandestine, specialoperator driven rescue attempt. The israelis had done Something Like it not so far before in the early 1970s. We trained and learned from the israelis. But we had never done anything like this before as a military. It was really hard. Operating in desert conditions. No clear support system. There were a lot of reasons this wasnt going well. From the iranian perspective it didnt go well by the will of allah. What happens is the helicopters begin flying in to tehran flaying over the desert. Have to fly lo to try to escape supervision or surveillance. And just terrible luck, a dust storm, a sand storm blows pup appear does a number on the mechanical components of the helicopters. And just all hell breaks lose. Helicopters are grounded. They crash into each other. The operation doesnt even get to tehran. It just fails. And men die. And so the one military operation thats tried is just a disaster. And, boy, does that hurt jimmy carters chances for reelection. The iranian hostage crisis arguably never really happily resolves itself in any expeditious way. I mean, it goes on month after month after revolutionaries. Predominantly islamic country. The algerians go in there like we sometimes think of switzer labd, go in there, do a really good job. Slowly working through the problems andnegotiating pointbypoint issues and algerians get a lot of credit for finally resolving the issue. The iranians play one last hard joke on president carter. Theyre fed up with him. They were furious about the military rescue attempt. They refuse to allow the algerians to resolve the issue and to free the american hostages until jimmy carter is out of office and Ronald Reagan is sworn in. So its not until the inauguration of Ronald Reagan 444 days after the hostage taking that finally those americans are let go and can come home. Its 1981, and Ronald Reagan is the president of the United States. And its an interesting moment in world affairs. On the one hand, you might think the new Reagan Administration could look toward this new islamist presence in iran and growing presence in the region and say, we got a new threat. We got a new challenge. How are we going to resolve this issue . Thats not where Ronald Reagans head was at. Hes an old cold war warrior. Hes focused on the soviet union. So the islamist presence, the challenge it presents, is basically put way deep in the background. We have a terrible relationship with iran. We dont resolve it during the Reagan Administration. We dont recognize their government. We keep, as donald trump would tell us later, a huge hunk of their money hostage in our banks. We dont give it back to them. And we just have a deteriorating backstory relationship with iran. And, of course, the irony is its during the same time that Ronald Reagan sees opportunity with a different islamist group. A group that eventually we call al qaeda in afghanistan. So because hes such a fierce anticommunist warrior, Ronald Reagan chooses to side with the Islamic Revolutionaries in afghanistan. Provides them weapons. Training. Money. So rather than say islamism presents an interesting challenge, we dont treat it seriously. We embrace it in afghanistan because theyre antisoviet. Theyren ant anticommunist. That didnt turn out so well. I think the United States began to take more seriously the changing temperament of the middle east. You could make a case certainly by the late 1980s our expertise was growing, we had people who could speak arabic more commonly. We had farsi speakers. We still didnt treat it as a central problem in u. S. Foreign relations. When 9 11 occurs in 2001, i think overwhelmingly for americans and even government elites, it was a shock. Why has this happened to us . The kind of anger and disrespect many people in the middle east had for the United States was still kind of mystery for us, so while we had certainly increased our capacities, we never took as seriously as we might have that growing crisis in that part of the world, so even now 17 years later, i think were still trying to figure out who our friends and who our enemies are in the middle east and how do we keep the islamist challenge manageable . And, you know, as recent events in saudi arabia have shown, we still are struggling to find the right answer to that part of the world. Its a real challenge and theres no easy answers for jimmy carter understood way back in 1979. All week, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Lectures in history. American artifacts. Reel america. The civil war. Oral histories. The presidency. Enjoy American History tv now and every weekend on cspan3. American history tv products are now available at the new cspan online store. Go to cspanstore. Org to see whats new for American History tv. And check out all of the cspan products. Hi, everyone, my name is adam koch. Im the 2018 cspan student cam winner. Im here to encourage you to continue to wrap up this competition as the deadlines getting pretty close, but dont worry, youll still have time. This is actually about the time that i started filming my documentary, the first year that i entered it. Im in the d. C. Offices right now. Im going to tell you cspan student cam was an Incredible Opportunity for me to express my thoughts and views about the Political Climate and the current day, as well as connect with some local and state leaders in political office. Im extremely excited that you all are interested in this and are pursuing this because its a once in a lifetime opportunity. Im so excited that you all are taking it. Theres still time for you to enter the cspan student cam video competition. You have until january 20th to create a 5 to 6minute documentary that explores an issue you want the president ial candidates to address during campaign 2020. Were giving away a total of 100,000 in cash prizes with a grand prize of 5,000. For more information, go to our website, studentcam. Org. American history tv is looking back 40 years to november 1979 when iranian students seized the u. S. Embassy in tehran and took 66 americans hostage. Next, former u. S. Foreign Service Officer john limbert talks about his time as a hostage in iran. Including a memorable visit from an iranian clergyman. This interview is from association for diplomatic studies and training oral history collection. Okay. Im john limbert. I was in the Foreign Service for about 34, 35 years. Served mostly in the either the middle east or islamic africa. During that time, i didnt see what you would call a lot of big successes. There was not a lot of saving the world. Stopping a coup. Averting a humanitarian disaster, stopping a war, the
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