Transcripts For CSPAN3 David Blankenhorn 20240713

9 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan, online or you can listen free on the radio app. This is David Blanken horn, he is the cofounder of an organization known as better angels and hes here to the talk about the work and civility in politics. Good morning. Good morning. Good to be with you. Thanks for joining us. The purpose of your effort is to bring people at least to a better understanding of where they are politically. Can you talk about the details of your organization and what its purpose is . We bring together republicans, democrats, independents, all three of your phone lines, to try to learn to respect and care for one another adds citizens despite our differences and when possible find Common Ground. Especially when it comes to ways to make a less divided and rancorous society. And we think its important and necessary to save our country. And we go ahead. We started a couple of years ago. We now have 8500 members in all 50 states, were very active across the country and growing rapidly. How do you do that . Specifically, how does this process work . We bring together groups of citizens who disagree with one another strongly, politically, for we call Work Community meetings, community workshops. And we get to know one another, ask each other questions, and ultimately form local groups called alliances that Work Together across the divides at the local level. We have these all over the country and have an annual convention that brings people together nationally where we try to come up with policy reforms we think would make a less divided effort. Its a grassroots effort number one to depolarize ourselves as citizen to citizen and also thinks of ways as we grow stronger to affect the larger society. What led you to this concept . Right after the 2016 election, two friends of mine, david lap who lives in south lebanon, ohio, and bill doherty who lives in minneapolis, minnesota, we decided to bring together 20 people, 10 who had just proudly voted for donald trump and 10 for hillary clinton, three weeks after the election, to spend time trying to talk with one another rather than about. It was a big success. The people really liked it. They felt better about each other and the country. And so we knew we had something. So weve now had more than 400 of these gatherings across the country. We have about 15 to 20 of them every week now, all run by trained volunteers. So its a spreading movement to bring together people first at the local level and then Work Together nationally for a less rancorous discussion where we respect one another as citizens, where we can find some Common Ground. The most common thing people tell us after they begin to Work Together is were less divided than weve been told. And so walk us through if someone were to just stand aside and watch this process play out, give us a sense of how this works, the mechanics . Well, the first thing we do when we get together is a Little Initiative that we called beyond stereotypes. We usually divide into what we call red and blue. If you lean conservative, thats red. Liberality is blue. Each side comes up with stereotypes they think the other side has about it. If youre red, what is the stereotype lip rals have about you. Youre racist. You dont like immigrants. You dont care about the poor. If youre liberal, what are the stereotypes that you think conservatives have about you. You want government to solve everybodys problems, youre softhearted, everybody should get free stuff and you want open borders. And then we discuss to what degree those stereotypes are false, because generally theyre more false than true, and also what elements of truth there might be in them. So we talk to one another and kind of go beyond the idea of stairr stereotypes and actually begin to communicate with one another. And these things last usually a day. We have them on saturdays. We also have a threehour version that could happen in the evening. But the basic point of the thing is to have me, if im a conservative, have me express my views and also hear the other sides point of views in a good way, so that we can actually connect with one another as citizens rather than just finger point or exaggerate our differences. So the whole point of it is, i can listen to the other side and the other side can listen to me. We can find respect. Our guest is with us until 9 30 if you want to ask him questions about his organization, the effort a larger civility of politics. For democrats 2027488920, for republicans, 2027488921, independents 2027488922. Are there ground rooulz and who sets up i guess the makes sure that people adhere to those rules . There are ground rooulz, but theyre very simple and people agree to them in advance. The most important groundrule rule is that were here to listen and to be heard but not to try to change anybodys mind. Were not trying to outargue the other side. Were trying to say what we think and also listen. The rest of the ground rules are pretty simple, be nice and be respectful. Its pretty simple. The ground rules are simple, but the process has been designed by professor bill doherty at the university of minnesota, and its a pretty evidencebased process. We do evaluations after each one of these things, and people leave these experiences less polarized than when they walked in the door. Thats a consistent finding. So it really does help people to make connections with others that they thought they probably couldnt connect with and to feel better about that and better about the future of the country. Were coming at a time when tomorrow is thanks giving, people will be sitting down of different political stripes, maybe they may talk issues of politics. What are the questions they should be asking each other and from what youve learned and this experience, how should they be engaging each other with a sense of learning where the other stands . Thanksgiving is often a difficult time. Lots of americans, its a Great Holiday but lately you feel like oh, my gosh, what if these contention arguments happen around the table. A lot of people worry about that. Theres no magic formula here. One idea is, as you suggested, to ask questions rather than make speeches. So and its also better to ask questions of clarification rather than gotcha questions. You know, a question of clarification is tell me more about why you believe that. A gotcha question is, how could you possibly believe this given such and such . Where you kind of smuggle an accusation into the question. So ask questions, dont give speeches. And ask genuine questions of clarification rather than con tone shus kinds of accusation questions. But at the end of the day both sides are so adhered to the idea theyre right that that might make that difficult . It does make it difficult. It makes it difficult for me and everybody. One interesting thing is theyve done studies about this, if you try to outargue the other person, showing them facts you dont think theyre aware of and you just keep arguing, the only result of that is that both sides get more dug in. No one changes their mind as a result of that kind of arguing. So its really pointless. So its much better to try to get to know the and also if you can make it personal in the sense of, well, what maybe happened in your life to cause you to have this view . What experiences did you have . Rather than sort of arguing information, if you try to find out where the other persons coming from, that is a much better approach to trying to find something that you can really have a good discussion about. If you want more of these skills for thanksgiving, go to the better angel website, you can find a list. Since you list yourself as a nonprofit, where do you get your funding from and does it come from one political stripe or the other . No. We have something called the better angels rule, and which is that we are evenly divided. We use the term red and blue, but lean liberal, lean conservative. We are evenly divided in our funding sources, board of directors, staff, leadership team. Thats an absolutely rule that we have. About 25 comes from membership dues. Its 12 a year to join. You can go to betterangels. Org and join, and i encourage everyone to do that. The rest comes from foundations, liberalleaning, rightleaning, and individual members who are able to give more than the 12. People can find that online as far as where youre funding and the transparency there . Yes. They can get a list of the people that have, you know, contributed. As i say, about 20 comes from our membership dues. And our goal is to have that proportion grow. Were a fairly new organization. Wed like to have the majority of our funding come from membership dues. Were keeping the membership dues low, 12 a year, so that everybody can join. So i really encourage people, if you care about this kind of effort that we think is actually necessary to save our country, go to betterangels. Org, see if you like what were doing, sign up today. Lets bring in the callers to this. Well start off with joe in jasper, florida. Youre on with our guest. Go ahead. Caller thank you, pedro. I just thank you for taking my call, first of all. And i want you to know, mr. Bankenhorn that i am so excited and thrilled to learn about your organization, and i do plan on visiting the site and perhaps joining. I would just like to know a simple question, if the topic of brotherly love ever comes up . I thank you and ill now take your answer. Thank you. Thats a great question. It really i dont know, caller, if youve seen, theres a book out now by a guy named arthur brooks, and its called love your enemy. And it says basically, it says that the true meaning of civility is to have an inner desire to do good to your opponent. Thats what were going for here. And so it really does take us to the concept of love. It really does. It means, yes, being able to love the person, love want to do well to your opponent. Its a very profound issue. And it goes to the very heart of what were doing. So i thank you for that question. Arthur brooks, appearing on this network in several forms to talk about that book. If you go to our website, you can find out more there. Marie in gulf port, mississippi, democrats line, go ahead. Caller hey, pedro, happy thanksgiving. I started watching your show since the impeachment hearings. I hadnt watched in years, and it is such a blessing to have your station have these scholarly, compassionate analysts who are doing good for our society. So thank you for that. Now, mr. B, yeah, i have to admit, i am at this moment in history, a because we have to have change in 2020 and we have to have change in some of our Southern States to take care of our people better. But i so appreciate your approach. Im going start spreading it on all the political websites. I see that we havent won in our arguments, our races, because people have indulged themselves in a lot of spewing of hatred and calling that campaigning for somebody. Its not even a good professional tactic let alone a socialchange message. So thank you for putting this out. I promise you, both of your speakers in the last hour or so, i will be sharing those websites with every source i can across the country. Thank you. Mr. Bankenhorn. Thank you. Thats very kind. Thank you. Anything to add . Its just that lots of people feel the way that my friend who just said this, this is something people feel at a gut level that the country needs. We find that we do not have to persuade people that we have a problem on our hands. People are many, Many Americans are heartsick, theyre heartsick, at how far we have descended into rancor and name calling and mud slinging and acting like children on television with one another with our public officials. So there is a feeling in the country among liberals, conservatives and everybody in between, that we need to do this better. And that our country is at stake here. Our democracy is at stake. If we cannot trust one another and be decent to one another, our democracy wont work. So theres a natural desire for people to do better. And all they need is an opportunity to put their values into action. And we find that people are very eager to do that. Speaking of opportunity, recently your organization fostered a conversation between the offices of representative dean philips, a democratic from minnesota, and the offices of pete stauber, the republican. Talk a little bit about that exchange. It was terrific. Those two representatives, one republican, one democrat, sent their staffs to one of our together, to one of our better angels events, workshops. And it was very productive. And you know these tend to be younger people, very politically aware, right in the thick of the partisan battles in washington. But they spent a day together talking to one another about this smingz they might have in common, getting to know one another, figuring out some ways they might Work Together across the divide. And dont we need more of this . So it was a great experience. Im really grateful to the two representatives who did this. And we hope this is the first of many such efforts, not just with us but there are other organizations out there. Theres ati terrific group call the National Institute for civil discourse and others who are working on this problem. From north east texas, independent line, noel, hi. Caller good morning and happy thanksgiving. Great programs this morning, pedro. Mr. Blankenhorn. I love your organization, ill check it out. And i love the comment from the woman about the brotherly love. Theres simply not of it at all. Yes, beautiful. Or civil discourse. But one of the things i would love to see our government do is get out of the business of everybodys religion. I dont even think it should be discussed at any level but in your private, person lives. And im all for that. But for and so much of whats happening in our government today, i dont know, has it always been like that . I grew up in the 50s and i dont remember people kind of wanting to worm their way into your business about what you believe, your belief system or spirituality. But its concerning to me when people think that certain government elected officials are now suddenly ordained to be this or that. And how do we how do we get over that . I hope in your groups that you have, maybe we could address that . People just go back to worshipping privately. Okay, caller, got the point. Thanks. Its a great question. We do talk this issue in better angels. And we have different opinions about this within our organization. Its kind of a balance, isnt it . I mean, were a generally speaking many, Many Americans, their religious believes are very important to them so its natural that those beliefs would have an influence on their public life. On the other hand, as you were saying, caller, if it becomes too much about attacking people on the basis of religion or just being very showoffy and phony about how religious you are, thats harmful. So its a balance and its something weve struggled with this since the beginning of the country. This has been an issue since the beginning. There have been eras that weve done better or worse. Maybe this is one were not doing so well. Youre attributed to a quote, the ultat antidote for political arrogance is political humility. What do you mean by that . Humility is the belief that you dont know everything. It used to be something that we would teach our children and we would naturally believe that about ourselves, i dont know everything. Because i dont know everything, i can benefit from talking to others, and i can especially benefit from talking to others who disagree with me on something, because they might know something that i dont know. This is very simple stuff but we have lost in in our public discussion today at the level of, you see people on television or you hear, you know, you hear the politicians and the talk shows with the exception of a few programs like this one. But in general, its grandstanding, i know everything, you know nothing, youre an idiot, and how can this be . How does anybody know everything . So thats what humility means. It just means that you can benefit from talking to other people who you dont agree with. Mr. Blankenhorn, can i ask you about a personal experience. It was highlighted in the New York Times back in the 2000s, you took a position on samesex marriage. You changed that. It led to the influence of what you do today. Can you account for that . Yeah. I was very active in the whole guy marriage debate in the early 2000s. And i was in the public eye as an opponent of gay marriage. And i testified in the prop 8 trial in california. So i met a guy in the course of this debate, a guy on the other side, his name is jonathon rouse, hes in washington, i bet hes been on your program, works at the brookings institution, he wrote a book called gay marriage, why its good. We began as enemies and are now friends. Hes on the board of the better angels, hes a strong advocate of gay rights. Hes a gay man himself. I met him and his husband michael. It wasnt through arguing or learning new facts but through getting to know him and him introducing me to other people, that my stereotypes began to weaken, and it was really the main reason i changed my mind on the issue. And so i this showed me something that people tend to change their minds on the basis of relationships that they have and what is important to them in their life rather than political arguing. And the other thing i learned from that experience is that if you do change your mind about something in public, you will be heavily criticized. We dont like people changing their minds on things. And it seemed to me normal that you would change your mind if you it seems that changing your mind on something is a can be a healthy thing. But in general in todays highly intolerant world, if you change your mind on something, thats considered bad. So those factors, the that experience i had of sort of being on both sides of a very contentious issue, having some experiences that caused me to think about how we might get along better in the country, that and jonathon rouse, he helped me with this and is now a colleague of mine, that was one of the bases of forming better angels. Again the organization, betterangels. Org, hyphenated, if you wanted to go to the website if you wanted to find out more. Well hear from peter in new york, republican line. Caller good morning, mr. Blankenhorn. I think that what you and your organization is doing is great. But i believe the problem is more in washington than it is among the public. On 90 of the issues, politicians basically agree and theyre just running the government. And its that very small, what you had named already, issues that divide people. And republicans or democrats it seems to be the tactic that theyve been using is to demonize the other side in order to stay in power. And using those divisive issues to separate people and not to bring people together. It used to be compromise. And also another big factor is the media itself. The media today, the Mainstream Media seems to be more interested in giving opinion than giving the public the news. And thats very divisive also. And i think thats a larger problem than people because ive always believed in dialogue and if you could convince me that what youre saying is valid, im willing to listen. But it seems to me that particularly the Mainstream Media is more concerned about molding opinions than it is about giving the public the news. Basic news and let them decide whats right and wrong. Thank you. Thank you. Those are strong points. I could not personally agree more with you. Look, were less divided than weve been told. Theres a lot of Common Ground among the citizens of the country. Most people realize that when they begin to talk to one another. And youre right, polarization can work for some politicians. They can use it to help get elected and stay in office. It works in some media environments, not on a show like this, but in most shows, sensationalism and yelling and so forth can be beneficial to that particular program. But youre absolutely right, and its time for we the people, we the people, to take more control of this. We dont have to put up with this. And what better angels is about is kind of an uprising against this environment that is so toxic and destructive. We dont have to put up with this. We want to be a major force in this country for the kind of return to decency, compromise, looking for ways to Work Together, not so much rancor and animosity. And this is possible, its possible, if we the people demand it. Do you get a sense that for those, theres an inside the beltway approach to how you view each others politics versus outside the beltway approach . Well, i do. Im not trying to there are plenty of wonderful people in washington, d. C. So i dont want to make that blanket assertion. But yes, theres a in the area of national politics, there tends to be a lot of today grandstanding. Legislators spend less and less time legislating and more and more time fundraising and looking for publicity. If you go to the local level, theres a lot more people know each other more. Theres a little bit more person to person connects. So yeah, im not trying to demonize. There are wonderful people in government at all levels as well as people who are fanning the flames of animosity. But yes, there is a difference between what happens in washington on this set of issues and what happens in the rest of the country. From our line for democrats, atlanta, georgia, hello. Caller good morning. How are you . Fine, thanks. Youre on. Caller its so good to hear you speaking this morning. I just have three small things that i would like to say. I wish that we as a country could come together, no more about democrats and republicans, just about whats right and whats wrong. Number two a men. Caller im sure that the people that follow our president , they know exactly who he is. They dont have a problem with it. I do. Number three is that i am well aware of the fact that people believe what they want to believe. The truth is what you believe and thats where we are right now. The truth is not being told. We got to start back telling the truth. Thank you very much and have a good day. Thank you. I think perhaps, caller, you meant saying things that you people in public saying things that arent true, that could be one way to interpret what youre saying. And i do believe there is more of that than weve had in many, many years. And its a real tragedy. Another thing is the perhaps what you also were referring to is just we have more and more difficulty today even agreeing on what the truth is, what the facts are. Because we have alternative interpretations of what the facts are. And so it can be very disorienting and confusing to try to, you know theres less and less shared understanding of what the basic facts are in any one situation. And it makes it much more difficult for us to have a good conversation with one another. And i dont know the solution to that. Its something that we talk a lot about in better angels. And there may be ways that people in public life and the media can work on this. But its a very important problem that youre pointing to. Mr. Blankenhorn, when you host these forums across the United States, how long before the walls of defense so to speak as far as a persons political positions goes down and a real conversation happens . Well, most of our the workshops last seven hours. Theyre usually over the course of a saturday. And so at the end of seven hours, we are seeing dramatic we measure this with survey questions before and after. And its a big change. We also have a threehour evening thing, and we see very similar levels of change. Not changing your views on issues but changing your views about the other side. I mean for example, we have a College Program called better angels debates where College Students talk to one another about very controversial issues. Before well say do you believe that people on the other side are generally good people, and you get an answer like some proportion. Its not a very high answer, by the way. Its not people generally dont believe that people on the other side are good people. And then after this experience, it really goes up. Theres a jump in the number of people who will say, yeah, i dont agree with them but i think theyre generally good people. Thats what were after at better angels. Thats the fundamental thing were after. Because when that happens, when we can rediscover the notion of civil friendship, what your other caller called brotherly love, when we can find that again despite our differences, we are on the way to healing our country, were on the way to being the United States of america again as opposed to this really dangerous divisiveness that we have today. You cant see it but it was in the house floor where representative johnny isakson, a republican of georgia, announced he was leaving office and he had an exchange with the democratic congressman, politically different but here is part of the exchange that happened. You have been very good to the people of the state of georgia. And i am lucky enough and just blessed really to call you a friend and a brother. Thank you so much. Madam speaker, it is almost difficult to yield back the time when i speak of this leader from georgia. Thank you, brother, for your service. I will come over and meet you, brother. And mr. Blankenhorn, aside from the words, representative lewis went over and gave him a long hug. You heard it, but at least give some unput. Thats beautiful. Thats what we just saw is what Abraham Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Thats the name our organization comes from, that phrase. It was in Abraham Lincolns first inaugural address in 1861. On the eeflk of civil war. He said one day the chorus of the union will swell again when were touched by the better angels of our nature. What john lewis did then was to say and act out more beautifully than i could what lincoln called the better angels of our nature, that we are friends, not enemies. Thats what he also said, we must be friends, not enemies. A simple profound thing we saw, very moving, very moving to see. And, you know, there are plenty of good people in politics who want to be that way, who want to be the way that those two guys were on that clip. And its a shame that we dont we dont have a system that allows and encourages that more. And ill clarify a mistake i made. It was georgia senator Johnny Isaacson was part of that exchange. Right. Lets go to brad in london, kentucky, independent line. Hi. Caller good morning. Youre doing fine work, mr. Blankenhorn. You and pedro had mentioned earlier about how it seemed the division, it was certainly a washington thing, and the people out in the nation, you know, we do have more in common. And i feel like if a person reaches a better Divisive Political point with another person just out in real life, that you would almost have to have been aiming for that. There is so much more to right. Our life and our shared american experience. One thing i wanted to say was that we can all agree, something happened in 2016. I dont wish to engage in political descriptions or personalities here at all because im trying to make a larger point. But whatever this divisive spirit that has taken hold of our shared american brotherhood that is evident to all, it exponentially grew in 2016 and has been since. That being said, in the past there had always been a communication and a back and forth between our former president and the current president. There always had been. You can go back thats right. To the founders who were possibly more bitterly divided than we are now, and still yet they shared, they were men of letters, but they shared, you know they got down to the business and the heart of america and did not allow themselves to be divided. But now we have the cases you know, we have a current president , no matter what you think of him, he is the the cur have former president s. And they there is a communication breakdown there. And that is hurtful and that that has to be a pain to the nation whether we recognize it or not. You know, the man is new to the job. There should be a communication there, you know. If they cant have it there, how can we be, you know it comes from the top down. So, mr. Blankenhorn, i would like to not challenge you, but i would hope maybe you could consider making a platform of your organization or something that lobbies to make a conversation happen between our living former president s, god bless them all, and our current president. All right. Thank you, caller. Thank you. That is a good brother, you need to join better angels. We need you. Go to our website and join. That was a very eloquent statement. They strong point. Im going to remember that thing. I hadnt thought about it, but youre right. Youre absolutely right on the communication between former president s and the current president being a part of our democratic tradition, that does go back to the founding. Youre absolutely right. We try in better angels to come up with ideas like this so its not just a grassroots group. Were trying to change the rules, the behavior of our leaders to recover that sense of what you were talking about. So, youre making us an excellent point. Im going to put that in my put that in our if we do it, ill claim credit for having the idea. If it doesnt work, ill say, well, a guy called in and mentioned it. Youngstown, ohio, republican line this guy should join better angels. Go ahead. Thank you for the work youre doing. You know, before trump even took office, the democrats in the house were talking about impeaching him. Heres a guy coming in, whos not a politician. They could have looked at a number of things that they could have worked with him on. Instead, right away they became divisive, talked about impeaching the guy right off the bat before he even took his oath of office. I mean, this is dysfunction in washington. Theres so many things they could have worked with this guy on. Every one of them ive seen tapes. Every one of them were for a wall until trump made it a central issue in his campaign, and then every one of them used it as an issue against him. I mean, that is just ridiculous. Caller, got the point. Thanks. Mr. Bankenhorn. Youre making a strong point. A lot of people in better angels make that point. A lot of people on the other side of the aisle in better angels make the point that something very similar happened when barack obama was elected. Senate majority leader said, well, the main thing our agenda for the next four years is to make sure this guy doesnt get reelected. They would say that kind of behavior was demonstrated against president obama in the same way it was demonstrated against President Trump. What we learned in better angels is that theres plenty of blame to go around. Theres no point to argue who is better to blame. Each side always believes the other side is always to blame. But the question is, what can we do together now to put an end to what this caller describes. In guy says this was a bad thing, to have everything completely polarized from day one. Could not agree more. What can we do together to make sure this doesnt continue . From our independent line, bruce joins us next with David Blankenhorn. Bruce, go ahead. Pedro, i appreciate you taking my call and im enjoying the show. I dont want to be too pessim t pessimistic but im going to make this observation and i want mr. Blankenhorn to comment. You know, he and his group, to me, are standing at the base of mt. Ever ers and they need to scale that or theyre going to get fractioned because, bear with me, i think that every day that monster is in the white house, he takes a flamethrower stability. Thats what he does. Thats how he operates. He loves it. Worse, there is a large percentage of the population, 38 , 40 , who absolutely love it. They love it. They love lock the b up. They love all the divisiveness and bile that trump throws out every darn day. Im supporting you 100 . I think its great what youre doing, but its such an uphill battle as long as hes in the white house and even after. He has planted poisonous seeds in our elector rat for years that will be there. Hes the antithesis of stability. How do we overcome it . We overcome it by working together as citizens to do everything we can to scale mt. Everest. I agree the forces of division are riding high right now. I agree. I agree the task before us is a good one. A great a big one. I would also say there are a lot of good people in this country, were a free society. We dont have to put up with this. We can come together to do something better. There are lots of people who dont like President Trump and there are lots of people who are on the who do. What were going to have to do, despite everybodys strong disagreements about this, were going to have to find ways to come together as a country. You know, voting for who we think is important, standing up for what we believe in in the partisan arena, but coming together across that division to try to make a less divided country. A more united country. A country where we can see one anothers humanity and Work Together on areas we share. And is it a tall order . Yes. Is it definite we can succeed . No, it is not definite. But, caller, whats our alternative here . Because our countrys at stake. Our democratic republican form of government is at stake here if we cannot climb this everest. So, you should join better angels and you should help us do that. Do you does your organization track for those who participate in your forums, if theyve managed to take that step, be willing to see other people, where they stand politically, accept that, do they still hold those positions over time or do they go back to, you know, certain things or certain impressions of peoples politics . Well, that is an excellent question. And the truth is, were not sure. We do know it has a shortterm effect. We havent had the researchers come in to measure the longterm effect. Youre raising a very good point. Maybe it kind of fades out. What i will tell you is this. Lots of people who have this experience, they join the organization and they become active in an ongoing way in one of our local alliances or at national level. And they become very they become leaders in their communities. I mean, we have people on our board of directors who began by coming to one of these events. So, at the level of our grassroots leadership, we know the effect is longlasting, but for all the thousands of people who have attended, we dont know yet the long term, whether it fades out or how much it fades out. Its a good question. If we had more you know, if we had the money to get the research done, we would find a better answer. From illinois, democrats line, katherine, hi. Good morning. I just wanted to echo my support for this better angel concept. Last saturday every morning i do a mile walk. Im walking back and i run into a neighbor, also around 4 30 in the morning, shes walking her dog. We stopped for a moment and we talked about the impeachment thing, et cetera. And we both said to ourselves, we cant talk about the negative side here. We need to build this president up. Trust me, i am a nevertrumper prp she is a nevertrumper. She is black, a baptist. I am white, a catholic. We took a money to pray for this president that god would help him in every way god needs to help him. Thats all i wanted to say. We can argue impeachment, we can argue this or that, but we have to get down on our knees sometimes and put our differences aside and pray for somebody who is bes desperately in need of prayer. Thats all i wanted to say. Thank you. Thank you for those comments, sister. Thats beautiful. I really im moved by what youve said. Im grateful to you. Again, the the definition of civility, its not just being nice. Its not just being polite. The true definition of civility is in your heart want to do good to the people you disagree with. And so what you were doing with your neighbor, thats what you were doing. Thats the better angels of our nature right there. I thank you for that. Well take one more call from brian in michigan. Republican line. Good morning. Thank you very much. Stability is exactly what id like to speak about. Last month i made the mistake of calling in and criticizing barack obama and cspan blocked my phone number. Can you explain whats so civil about that . Im using my grandsons phone. Thank you. Dont know about any of that claim, caller, so well leave it at that. Mr. Bankenhorn, where do we go from here . We need a strong and growing Citizens Movement to overcome. Divisiveness thats tearing us apart. We need to be Strong Enough as a social movement to begin to change the way people at the top behave. And thats the purpose of this better angels movement. And it will begin only when we, the people, begin to come together to demand these changes and to show it in our own lives, like the lady with the who met her friend and prayed. Thats it. So, if you believe that our country needs this and you want to be a part of something that can change the country and save our country, i invite you to join us. Go to betterangels. Org. We would love to have you. We would love to have every american be a part of this effort because, you know, our Republican Democratic form of government depends on us making this change. We need you to join us. David blankenhorn, president and cofounder of better Angels Joining us for this conversation. Thank you for your time and happy thanksgiving. Happy thanksgiving. Thanks for having me on the show. Coming up, retired general John Nicholson and the former commander of u. S. And nato forces in afghanistan will talk about the future of diplomacy and defense in afghanistan. Our live coverage starts at 12 30 p. M. Eastern here on cspan3, online at cspan. Org or listen with the free cspan radio app. American history tv on cspan3 looks at the impeachments of president nicken and clinton sunday starting at 6 00 p. M. On oral histories trent lott and Elizabeth Holtzman reflect on their experience serving on the House Judiciary Committee during the impeachment inquiry of president Richard Nixon. Heres a guy that had an influence on my decision to run for office and was helpful in my winning, and that i looked up to as the president. And i wound up then having to sit in judgment on him and eventually even having to say that i would vote for article of impeachment. At 8 00 we look at the impeachment of bill clinton with a portion of the 19 the 8 House Judiciary Committee debate. I think you denigrate the role of the senate, which has the important adjudicate role to weigh the evidence, to study what it wants and agree and disagree and then our Founding Fathers made it extraordinarily difficult to eliminate a president from office by requiring a twothirds vote. Thats why i have always said unless this is done bipartisanly and tragically theres no bipartisanship here, but im hopeful if it gets to the senate there would be bipartisanship. Appear sent that there god help the gentleman yield god help other president s. Explore nations past on American History tv. This weekend the impeachments of Richard Nixon and bill clinton. The House Judiciary Committee meets monday to hear evidence in the ongoing impeachment inquiry against President Trump. The chair, jerrold nadler, doug collins will hear from democratic and republican counsel on the findings of the inquiry. Our coverage begins at 9 00 a. M. On cspan, cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio app. Were joined by scott perry, congressman of pennsylvania. Member of the House Foreign Affairs committee. Congressman perry, your committee was part of the leadup to the impeachment inquiry. What is your understanding of the drafting of additional articles of impeachment and will Foreign Affairs be involved in that . Well, thank you for the opportunity to be here. I was involved in every one, except for one of the meetings in the scif with the intelligence oversight committeele meeting, the public