Ms. Fraser very busy for the last two days, and we have had a wonderful crowd turn out each time. We sold out of the book. Its been really satisfying to it has been really satisfying, and to have cspan here taping this to show on television is the icing on the cake. It is such a wonderful feeling to know something so positive representing Jefferson County will be on national television. My job tonight [applause] peoplentroduce the two on the podium who will be conducting this conversation. Jane henderson is the editor at book editor at the st. Louis postdispatch. She granted waited from the university it graduated from the university of columbia with degrees in journalism and english literature. She worked as a copy editor for the st. Louis globe democrat in the mid1980s, and after three years in the newsroom of the hartford post in connecticut, she returned to st. Louis and has been an editor and writer with their features department for 30 years. She has signed and edits edited book reviews choosing from 300 or so new books each week. She has written stories about book trends and in for youd people. Wed many she asked to that end will be having the conversation with caroline fraser. Fraser is the editor of the library of america addition of Laura Ingalls wilder, the little house books, and the author of three works of nonfiction. Her latest book is prairie fires, the American Dreams of Laura Ingalls wilder. Wilder. It was one of the New York Times best books of the year and won the 2018 hewlett surprise for biography. It also the National Book one critics circle award for 2018raphical award and the award. And the final list given by the columbia journalism school. Caroline frazier has traveled the country for the past two years, giving talks on Laura Ingalls wilder, her daughter, and other related topics related to groups, large and small, as schools, public libraries, conferences, and universities. Formerly on the step of the new yorker, carolyn fraziers article also appears in the new york review of books, the atlantic, the los angeles times, book review, and the london review books, among other publications. She is also the author of gods plan child, living and dying in in the Christian Science church and rewilding the world. She graduated from Mercer Island high school and she received her phd in english and american literature. That was from harvard university. She lives with her husband in santa fe, new mexico. We would like you all to give her a warm welcome tonight. [applause] i guess we are on. Are you ready for us to go ahead . Thank you. Thank you very much for having me and asking me to talk to carolyn frazier. This is really exciting. I think most of us read little house on the prairie books when we were young, and maybe many others, and maybe watched it on tv, which i did. It was getting to be a teenager, so at that time, i was sometimes a little skeptical and thought it was a little corny, but we will get back to the later. How long have you researched and studied, and why did you start studying Laura Ingalls wilder . I discover the books as a kid, too, and read them and loved them, and thought they were fantastic. I think part of the reason i really loved them was my grandmother, and most of my grandparents had been farmers in the midwest, they were all immigrants mainly from scandinavian places, and came to minnesota from wisconsin, and were farming in the late 1890s. And in some of the same places. Same areas. Areas that Laura Ingalls had lived. Its fascinating to me to discover these books that told stories that cast some light on what they must have gone through. As an adult, i had an opportunity to review the first biography of rose wilder lane, Laura Ingalls wilders daughter, who was at one time a pretty wellknown journalist. In the 90s, a biography of her appeared, and it was quite a scandal because it claimed she was really the author. That man was from the university of missouri, right. Right . Yeah. It created quite a sensation. There were lots of headlines like all fraud on the prairie. [laughter] i reviewed that book and that is when i started looking at wilders manuscript, and really thinking about what an interesting story that was. Her life, yeah. I think you mentioned, in your book, that a lot of his assertions about the rose writing the book is in the appendix, right . Did he set out anything to debunk it or did he somehow fall into that later . It was kind of an odd presentation. Have some real hostility towards laura as part of the story, and was very critical of her. Yet, he did not bring up this thing that was such a central part of the book, the book was called the ghost in the little house. Until really the appendix. Ittalks a little bit about at the end. It was a contentious kind of argument to make, and i ultimately came away from it feeling like there was a lot more to the story, that it was more complicated. Earned your phd, im not sure how many people at harvard were studying tempelhof studying Laura Ingalls wilder. Ill tell you how many, zero. I didnt even think of it at that time. I would never have proposed it, because it was not considered it was not considered academic. But you kind of made it academic and away with your book, because you do incorporate so much history into the story, right . Yeah. I later came later i had the opportunity to add a new version of the little house books, a new addition for the libraries of america, and that entailed writing some notes on the text, explaining what certain historical events were for the reader, and as i was doing it, i begin to realize all this stuff is really interesting. Its really interesting to me, so i began to hope it would be interesting to readers as well. Orhow long did you study what papers did you dig up . Where did you find actual new information that hadnt been written about much before . Scholars were starting to do related work. There was a fascinating paper, for example, about the ingalls family in kansas that i found. There was another paper in a folklore journal about a discussion of the origins of this phrase that occurs repeatedly in little house on phrase, the the only good indian and the dead indian. That was in use. Event that is also mentioned in the book called the minnesota massacre. There was a whole history just wast that one phrase that so fascinating, you know, in terms of how that was used politically, to justify the treatment of indians. So, it seemed like a really rich history that really repaid attention. Did you find some of the papers are in the Herbert Hoover library, too . Those roses are roses only papers . Both. Laura Ingalls Wilders papers are in the Herbert Hoover library. Yes. It is unusual, but the reason that came about was because when rose began her writing career, and she really began as a yellow journalist, she began writing these kind of questionable biographies of people, and she wrote one of Herbert Hoover. She was the first person to of hooverography before he became president. And that was for adults. Yes, but it was actually fictionalized. Her death, her papers ended up at the hoover president ial library, as well as some of her mothers. Interesting. What were some of the revelations that you found . Has won the pulitzer prize, and people might must have thought it was groundbreaking, the way you pulled it together, all of this information, and how it related to history. I assume is why at one . Caroline i think it was a combination of establishing the importance of wilder and her work. To both her Literary History but also selfimage. As way that we see ourselves the descendents of people who crossed the great plains, and were involved in settlement of the country. Inhink people are interested the kinds of fantasies we have , anded about our own past how true are those stories we tell ourselves . Jane other people were telling that story though before wilder, where they . Caroline sure, but i think her story werent they . Caroline sure, but i think her story has become one of the children,ys especially white children, the ideas about manifest destiny. That has beenept interrogated quite a bit, yet, even still today you hear politicians and other people kind of endorsing this idea that there were some preand plan some grand plan for behind the whole idea of homesteading. Jane its been known some of our president s and president ial candidates have been bid fans big fans of little house on the prairie. Was that a subtle message on their part, or was that what they were interested in . Caroline i think you are speaking about Ronald Reagan who famously there was this anecdote about how he used to watch little house on the prairie in the white house with knew, because i think he mike landen, who was the star, producer, and director of the tv show, they were friends. Landon was a big reagan supporter. I doubt much if reagan and the self had read the books reagan himself had read the books or had that sort of knowledge of the background of them, but yeah, there is maybe a little bit of message in that, that it was considered to be whole some. Wholesome. Jane wholesome and hardworking , kind of pulling yourself up i the bootstraps, right . Caroline right. That whole notion of reagan that she obviously didnt support government. Supportviously didnt government. He said something about it some but he comes to you and says im here from the government, and im here to help, jane you are so civil supposed to be suspicious. Caroline yes. That is the worst thing you could hear. In the books, there is this slightly antigovernment jane right. I wasnt going to bring that up until later, but since we are talking about it, i remember reading an essay in the new yorker a few years ago. The person i was talking about, the president ial candidate, Vice President ial candidate, was sarah palin. It became associated with her, and uma thurman seemed to want to perk point out that this idea that people are doing this all themselves and that Laura Ingalls wilder did it all herself wasnt entirely true. That she had had help, the government had given her loaned her money to buy land, etc. I assume you brought that essay. How did you react to that and what is your interpretation of how much help or not from the government ingalls to gets. Thatine its quite clear laura herself had a really contradictory reaction to the federal government, because, for 1902 1920s, she was a loan officer, a for theytreasurer missouri federal farm loan program, so she helped farmers forthut paperwork and so to get these loans. Which were beneficial for farmers. She was very supportive of that program. When the new deal came along, she was opposed. She was opposed to people taking assistance or aid from the government. As many people were. Were, many farmers were. Jane it wasnt an unusual attitude to have. My own mother who was born in the 20s and was one of a family of 10. When i was growing up, i said why dont you like fdr or something and she said because he made us feel poor. I was kind of like, you were poor. During the depression, you were pretty poor, but apparently a lot of people didnt like to like theyor to feel were being told that, i dont know. Caroline its kind of a baffling thing because i think lovedand certainly rose this idea of complete independence and autonomy, and and peoplearmers should never take things from the government. That was shameful, i think, to them. Yet, when you look at the history of the ingalls family, they do accept help. They accepted help, for example, for mary, lauras older sister who became blind as a teenager. That was as a result of an illness, and mary was ultimately sent to college in iowa, which was a state program that paid for that, and they were willing to accept aid. In fact, i think she was the only member of the family that was able to go to college. Know, there was clearly flexibility in the original ingalls family. , i think thatn laura, possibly because she was a little ashamed of some of her own reliance on her daughter financially, developed a somewhat more rigid reaction. Jane when did she start writing or talking about that exactly . Was it more in the 1920s and 1930s . Caroline it was really with the advent of fdr. You dont see laura jane talking about it before then. Tell us about Charles Ingalls. Did he get he took advantage of the homestead act, right . What did that mean . How did that affect the family . Caroline of course the homestead act was one of the biggest government giveaways in history. The family was fine with that. The homestead act is signed into law around 1862 by lincoln. And, he takes advantage of it first in minnesota, although they dont develop a homestead there. It really becomes a factor in their lives when they move on to dakota territory, the town where the ingalls family did help found. The ingalls family did help found. I think it was, from the beginning, a real struggle for them because it involved breaking land, which cutting up the prairie with a breaking flower plow, which in itself is a fiendishly difficult work, to cut through all of the roots and tear off the grasses on the prairie. I think he really by this time he is an older jane i will was he how old was he . Caroline i would have to look, but i think by that time he was in his late 30s. Jane and he had probably been working. Caroline yes, he had been working like a dog all this time. [laughter] caroline i think it really took it out of him, and they were crops, have a few good and so forth, but he wasnt really supporting the family just with homestead. He had to go into town and build houses, and he actually worked mainly as a carpenter in his later years. So, it kind of shows you how tough that was. I think it was easier for big families who had a lot of sons, you know, who could help out. Jane and he doesnt have any sons, right . Oh they had a boy, did he die . Caroline they had lauras little brother freddie who was the locustsfter wiped them out in minnesota. He died less than a year old. There were no signs. Sons. Mary had her disability, so it was a pretty tough life. Jane did they also have where they expected to pay back the government or prove the land , make sure it was producing or something before they could really keep it . Caroline yeah. The process of what they called proving up on the land took about five years. When you apply for a homestead, you filled out some paperwork and paid a small fee, you know, a few bucks. It was 10 for a while and it gradually went up. Clear at have to certain number of acres and had to build something, had to build ashanti f house or shanti or something. At the end of the process, at the end of five years, you had to get some friends or neighbors to help you fill out the paperwork and testify to this. You had to prove you had done this. That had to be published in the local newspaper. Jane really . Caroline thats why a lot of local newspapers were founded, to publish that. Jane also to probably publish announcements even from the government and land. Caroline sure. Jane but to play devils advocate, they are not getting anything really for free from the government because they are also doing the government a favor, arent they . By moving west and kind of helping clear out the indians and create a farm. Caroline yeah, although the utility in some of those farms is and was questionable, because especially on the great plains, in the dakotas, a lot of that farming,not ideal for especially what they called driving land farming, which was just going alone without your occasion. Just relying on whatever Mother Nature provided. Land was marginal for farming. The government knew that when it participated in sending people out there, or allowing railroads to send people out there. Jane oh really . Caroline because the government scientists, like john Leslie Powell had basically told them, this is better for grazing than it is for farming, and you need a lot more of it to be successful. You need a lot more than the traditional 160 acres that the homestead act provided to make a go of it. Pay any eve toot that. Jane what was their motive to that, do you think . Caroline i believe the motive was to help the Railroad Companies pursue their profits. Jane oh really . Good. Aw though . P he lovesim because laura and laura loves him. We saw him on tv, but he sounds like he wasnt a very good provider. Caroline laura knew that. She admitted as much in a letter she wrote to rose. She said Something Like paw was no farmer, no businessman, he was a poet and a musician. I think she loved him for those qualities that were not that practical. , and he wass charm a very affectionate and loving father, and he was i think a musician. Ry talented his fiddle playing, his violent playing was something that made their lives worth living. Even during the darkest hours, which were pretty dark, of the family. So, she came away from her relationship with him, i think, valuing him as a father, even though he had, in a lot of ways, failed as a provider. Or did hethat unusual have like a short Attention Span or something . [laughter] i think it was i think it was kind of restlessness in one way. He loved to be moving on. He had an itchy foot. He clearly disliked it when an area became too settled and overpopulated. He always wanted to keep going and moving on to the next place that was wilder. Himself on wander by these hunting forays. Was that he was just not supremely dedicated to the domestic, farming. Jane what about his poor wife . Was she doing the lion share of the work at home . She sounds a little resigned. Caroline in some ways, she was. That was the thing. That was the lot of many women at the time, to hold down the fort. I think she was a very patient, person in a lot of ways. It seems that she did finally put her foot down. This is that. I think she did that in part for the children that she wanted to receive she wanted them to receive some education. How much how much education did she get . She got some. She did not finish what we would consider high school, and i think she felt bad about that. But she was quite well read for a person of her age. How did she get books . Did they have a library . They never had a library when she was there. About howtalk wonderful it was now that children have access to libraries now. They had a few books. They valued literature. Son of ingalls, for the farmers, was a very literate man. He enjoyed reading. And so did carol ingalls. Reading at home with something they did. He was a bit he was a bit of a storyteller too wasnt he . At the Hardware Store he would sit around with this pals, get the news, he loved to read newspapers. He was a great storyteller. Show i said that once he had heard a tone tune played on the fiddle, he would always remember it and reproduce it. He must have had quite the ear. How long would her parents live . When did he pass away . Laura Caroline Lara into her husband to go to the ozarks after the series of misfortunes they suffered. That was the last time laura would see her father until he was on his deathbed. Jane about eight years . Caroline she was not able to be with him until the very end. Died i think he was 63 or Something Like that. Ingalls lived on for some time in desmet. She and mary lived together. Mary died in 1928. Jane 1928. Thats before lara made a big, right . Before laura published her first book . Caroline laura doesnt start writing the books until the 30s. She writes the first an autobiography and it was not published during her life in 1930. The pioneer girl . It is well annotated if i remember. They put a lot of historical i think. On in that too her other sisters, carrie and grace they did not end up as well as the wilder family, right . They still had some struggles until the end . Caroline they were quite poor. Carrie was an enterprising Young Journalist for a while. She worked for some newspapers. She ended up marrying a minor a miner in the keystone area. Fellowot married to a not far away from desmet in a little town called manchester. They were very poor. Grace had some Health Problems all her life. Jane did laura ever give them money, do you think . Caroline it is unclear. Set sure she ever help support them. During the depression she may givenn some glow them some close and other things, but i do not think she financially helped support them. Lauras marriage almanzo. Anzo were they happy all their life . Hard time. Hey had a after they were married, they were heavily in debt. Then they fell ill with diff the phtheria. I while heed a stroke was recovering from the , which would last the effects would last jane he was a young man. He was a young, vital man when it happened. He had difficulty walking for the rest of his life afterwards. He worked very hard, but it was a real struggle physically for him. He could not do the kind of hard labor that he had done before. Jane they came to missouri and i think there was something about apples . Something about the land of the big red apples . Caroline that is how the railroad advertise the ozarks and especially the area where they wilders ended up moving around mansfield. Like all the railroad, runs ons it waslroad come a fantasy, but there were some orchards that were being established. They were pretty successful for a while. I think a lot of that was wiped out during the dust bowl years probably. Of thee do not think ozarks, or at least i dont, as great farmland. It is pretty rocky. Caroline it is. When you talk to people there now, almost all of them have stories of lock picking. Picking. Someone would pay them . 50 to go pick up rocks. Rocky ridge was the name of their farm, and i dont think it was ever i think they grew oats, they grew stuff for their livestock. He had quite a lot of livestock at one point. She was jane she was very proud of her chickens. Caroline she was very skilled with poultry and had all these ways of keeping chickens productive, and healthy. That was a huge boon to them and one of the things she began writing about for newspapers. All tree and how to be and how to poultry be successful. She was distressed that they were dismissive about the many money she made from the poultry. She added up all the money she was making and proved to all anzoo that it was alm that it was worthwhile. Bills beforey the the books sold . Paid the bills before the books sold . Caroline they had a lot of jobs. They worked for an oil company. She did the books for the company. They took orders. She had quite a little business doing that for a while. Then these various other things came along. Was starting to write for newspapers. She wrote for the missouri ruralist, a very wellknown and wellrespected farm newspaper. That is where she served her apprenticeship as a writer, started writing about her family, her father, her sister mary. People always like family stories in general, but how did she get that job . Do we know how she started . Caroline she and rose kind of came up together. Laura took a trip in 1915 to visit her daughter rose who in that time was living in San Francisco. She marries this neerdowell who was in San Francisco. San francisco of course was kind of a hotbed of yellow journalism at the time. , theywere a lot of papers were publishing a lot, she started working on one of the womens pages of the San Francisco bulletin. Fiction and some nonfiction that actually was fiction. At the same time, she is telling you can make so much more money writing for a newspaper then you can with chickens jane we know that that is still the case. Caroline that is how they got into it. Lara apprenticed herself to her lauraer for a while apprenticed herself to her daughter for a while. Break was lucky. They valued her. Jane do we know how much she was paid . Caroline no i dont think so. Jane do you want to talk more about rose . She was a character. She contributes quite a bit in the book. She also seems a little unsteady to me. A little moody at the very least. A hard lifese had in some ways. From a young child, she had a lot of trauma in her life because of all those things that happened. Her parents illness her illness, her Fathers House burnedhe down. With af that left her lot of confused feelings of responsibility. As an adult you can see all this trauma playing out in her life. Severely depressed at several periods. And suicidal sometimes. Lot,id seem to suffer a and her relationship with her mother was pretty rocky too. And they had a lot of back forth. They mustve also sort of supported each other, because send herdnt she help motherss manuscript to a publisher and a of coached her through what to do . Caroline oh yeah. I often say i do not think we would have these books if it were not for roast rose. She had a lot of polish and professionalism. People. Publishing she knew a lot of editors in new york. She knew editors magazines. She was the driving force pushing her mother to take. Dvantage of these memories she had been hearing about these stories about the pioneering days all her life and she knew that there was some money to be made off of that, there was a real market for that. Also the fact that the country was being becoming more modern made people nostalgic, or interested in those older stories, i assume. Caroline definitely. You can see that kicking in in the depression. Those stories and obviously that really appealing to a public that doesnt know where their next meal is coming from. These stories about the wonderful farms and these amazing meals. Farmer boy is full of accounts of eating pie for breakfast. It was wonderful nostalgia for a time of plenty during a time when people were desperate. I meandid obviously these books took a little liberty with history, right . Series even more. Not that we should look to tv series for our history lessons, but a lot of people watch that nhow and so they probably got a that this was sort of how it was. What are some of the things that got wrong . The tv show . More or less everything. Jane really . Caroline the tv show was so made up out of whole cloth. If you look at it now, it really was more about the 1970s than it was about the 1870s. This was true about almost anything everything coming out of hollywood. Westerns and so forth our new west new tory westerns and so forth were tory westerns and so riouslyere noto inaccurate. Have a photo of Michael Landon with his shirt off and his chest shave. I have a photo of micah linton with his shirt off and his chest to shaved i landonphoto of michael with his shirt off and his chest shaved. Emphasized the success of the family. His kids did wear shoes. The real angles girls cup ingalls would have loved to have. Do not remember every detail of the tv series, but Laura Ingalls how did it show the indians and how did that compare to how the indians were pretrade in the book . Book . Trayed in the there are some mixed messages there, it seems. Caroline i am aware of the handful of instances, especially one episode of the tv show that showed what was meant to be an indian boy and lauras interaction with him. These were, again, ideas of Michael Landon, who apparently of epurposed a lot i do not think it had anything to do with historical reality or memoryth wilders own that comes through so strongly on little house in the prairie little house on the prairie. A number of encounters she and her family had with indians in kansas, todayart today are problematic when we read them. There is racist language and attitudes on display in that novel. Nott is not an s laura necessarily who displays that, is it . Its her mother thats afraid of indians. Caroline her mother certainly did number of times when she uses this inflammatory language, it is given to another character. It is not something laura is sailing or her father is saying or her fatherying is saying. Nevertheless, there are attitudes and expressions of how indiansee and interpret and indian behaviors that would never be published today. Jane no. Caroline it is interesting to look at that novel as an expression of that time. Remains one of our most important novels, but i think you have to understand it in its historical context. Jane its a page turner that buck. Theres always something happening. Theres wolves, theres indians. Theres a lot of stuff. The American Library association a couple what was thenamed laurangram wilder Ingalls Wilder award over her portrait of the indians. What you think of that . Was it necessary . Caroline i think it was necessary for them, because that is what they decided to do. I understand why they did it. They were the institution that developed the award. They owned it, they have the right to change the name of it. But they did not withdraw it. They did not withdraw it from wilder herself, who was the first recipient of it. They made a Public Statement that they hope the children and adults would continue to read the books. Act ofnot intended as an censorship, although i think the general public generally interpreted it in some quarters as that. Which i think is too bad. That was not the intent. Theodorey still have a geiszler ward, right . A theodore geiszler award, right . Caroline yes. Jane theodore geiszler was more wilderin his novels been wilder. Ilder than have a different. Et of problems but that award there was an arrangement with the family i do not know the full story behind that. There is some complications involved with that. As far as wilder is concerned, it is something they have bank have scussing they they have been discussing for years. Children and communities in and in the planes fromest who had come home school in tears because they had been reading little house on the prairie and had read these kind of inflammatory things. I think it was a recognition that some of the bugs have books have become of their portrayal is complex and disturbing. That has to be acknowledged. There has to be context provided for these books, if they are going to continue to be taught. To, how does that compare say, other classic childrens books though . Them whaty of nto many of them would many of them mother taught first grade. I remember her distress when she had to stop reading little black sambo to kids. This has been happening. People reevaluate classics all the time into begin either withdrawing them from Young Children i think that the issue is children. Notable andularly disturbing when it is children who are the audience. I think for adults it is a totally different situation. People are still reading and discussing Huckleberry Finn for example. Adults. E are it is a different set of standards, i think. Jane hopefully they have more knowledge to put things in context, i would assume. Caroline sure. Jane would you have the may be at eight or change anything now in the little house books to make it go away . Caroline no. I am never a fan and i do not think it is necessary. I do not think it solves the problem. Either you just need to reconsider who is reading the box and what age they are when they read the box and provide know i am not an educator. Im not someone who has those kinds of skills. It is a problem with all literature from jane when my children were young, there was a new picture book that came out that was like little black sambo. It had illustrations that were more respectful. It was a darling little book. I cannot remember what the name of it is now. Him somethingd slightly different. I think it was based on that. Its just that it had been reillustrated so that it told the story more respectfully. Anyway, it is probably about time for other people to think of some questions. There are microphones over here, and you will have to get up to go to them. They do not roam around the room. What anyone else like to ask Caroline Frazier a question . Hello . One do youy have a favorite novel by Laura Ingalls wilder . If so, which one and why . Caroline i really love to the long winter, which is her novel about the families survival of 1880hellacious winter of 1881. To it describes how the ingalls family was trapped in de smet for months at a time as the food dwindled. And were down to their last sack of potatoes, i think, when this almanzo wilderd with another man in town made this desperate journey to get seaweed from a man to get wheat from a man out of town. They risked their lives to get it. It is beautifully written. It is an extraordinary survival tale. Evocative of the kind of terror and numbness that aretakes you when you subjected to these kinds of conditions. It all comes right in the end. Heroism bys act of the man she eventually marries. Jane were they happy for the rest of their lives, do you think . Caroline i do think that they were. I think their marriage was difficult in the ways that many marriages are. Sometimes real power struggles. Lara was a really forceful ura was a very forceful person. She had a hot temper. She was quick to anger, and i think she knew this about herself and regretted it. Yet, he was very patient with her. He would say later in life that he knew that about her when he married her. I think that he admired her fire, her fiery personality. I think at they loved each other they loved each other deeply. Jane do you have a favorite little house site . One of my favorites is the creek side. The town of walnut grove is quite interesting in itself. There is this area where the family dugout was. It is such a lovely place. It really preserved the character of it. What do you would you talk a little bit about lauras situation with her sister mary . That was a critical part of her life, i think. Obviously the two sisters, mary and laura, had a kind of competition. They were very competitive with each other. And when they were younger they were much more pious and proper and a little bit prim, which was something that laura always resented. And i think that is true. I think this was the difference between them. And then when mary fell ill and nearly died and then became blind, laura was then really kind of forced into this role that she had never contemplated for herself, which was to become a teacher. That is what mary had been intending to do. And her parents had always hoped that mary would teach and be able to make a little money that way. And so, it was this huge, i think, shock for laura that then she had to step into those shoes. And it showed her, she said, that she really could do something that she did not want to do. She was never comfortable doing that so young. And yet she did do it. She forced herself to do it. And it was really hard for her to step up in front of kids who were bigger than she was. She was a small person. Wasnt she just under 5 feet or something . She was just 5 feet. So i think that relationship stayed with her really for the rest of her life, even though she and mary were separated for most of their adult lives. And i think that even some of those little childhood resentments stayed with her, too. She would describe such feeling later in life that it was clear i think it created her love of fairness and her intolerance of injustice. She was very quick to be angry about things that she felt to be an injustice. I think it came from her competition with mary. Hi. I have really enjoyed your talk so far. I had a couple questions but i will do the one. How did you get into researching like you did . Because most people you read books, you love the books, and you dont go as far as you have where you have researched these people for years. So let so what led you to do what you have done . To me, the historical background of the in galls lives were really fascinating. The more i got into that the more i wanted to find out. It was more like putting together a puzzle or something. There were all these missing pieces that i wanted to find the answers to. So, i think that was a big part of it. But you had mentioned earlier that nobody at harvard would have studied Something Like this. I did feel there was importance to these books, that they really deserved attention and explication and analysis in a way that they had not. Not that there are not lots of fans, there are lots of really dedicated fans and amateur historians and people who have studied the books. And they have contributed an enormous amount as well. So, i want to give them credit as well. But i really felt like it was a subject that the general public would respond to. And that, you know, the attention would be repaid with new fans, hopefully. New interest. Because i think it is fine to not be a fan of the little house books as well. There are a lot of people who do not like them, which i completely understand. And i think that is totally legitimate. But i do think they are important. I think they help shape our ideas about some settings, about our history with farming and settlements, that we need to know more about those things. Did you have another question . I know someone elses coming up, but how did it feel about how bulger big is . How does it make an author feel knowing it is huge . I am just curious what authors think of that. It is enormously gratifying to get a response to your work, because of course most writes, and certain w riters, and most certainly i have spent years by myself in a room not talking to anyone. So it is wonderful to have readers and to meet readers and to hear their responses and the ir enthusiasm for the topic. Were you surprised when you won the pulitzer . I was shocked. Deeply, deeply shocked, yes. Very surprised. I read that Charles Ingalls lineage stopped with rose when she passed away. Did rose not have any children, or grace, or the other sister . No. Carrie, the man that she married had a couple of children before they married. But she had no children of her own, mary had no children, grace had no children. Rose, likewise, did not have any surviving children. Rose did have a kind of habit later in her life of sort of casually adopting, she adopted several young people in a kind of temporary way. And one of those people eventually became the inheritor of the estate, a fellow named Roger Mcbride who she met when he was the 14yearold son of her editor at readers digest. And he became her adopted grandson and inherited the estate when she died. I have a comment and a question. My favorite was always a long winter, and my view is certainly colored now having read about that lazy couple lived with them during the long winter. The other thing, whenever i read those books well, i still do. I always wondered, i knew that laura was born right after the civil war, and it was never mentioned, like, charles was never fond of war. It seems to me from the book that when the draft came he just sort of disappeared for a year. Is that kind of yeah, that is a very interesting period, and it remains, i think, an unanswered question why he did not serve. There was some history there. The ingalls, charles and caroline, married in 1860. She had a brother who died. In the war. I am just speculating here, but she might have discouraged his participation. But yes, they do kind of drop off the map, briefly, around that time, and then turn up in wisconsin. And that was an area where a lot of men in wisconsin were kind of drifting off into the lumber camps and so forth in the northern part of the state to potentially avoid the draft, which was quite a contentious subject in wisconsin, although i think the state of wisconsin, they sent more men to fight in the war than almost any other state. So, it is tantalizing and interesting to think about what that might have been like, and why none of the ingallss boys, except the two youngest who ended up volunteering very late in the war, why none of them served. That is very interesting. In mansfield, Roger Mcbride, he kind of took over the loyalties of some of the the royalties of the little house books. Wasnt the main field Public Library supposed to get them later, but they never did . They got a lump settlement. Right. Lauras will did leave the county library the proceeds, the royalties. She left them all to rose for roses lifetime, but when rose died it was supposed to go to the library. And he engaged in legal machinations to prevent that from happening. So, after he died, then there was a bit of a reckoning and a lawsuit was filed by the library, and they did get a settlement for a fairly substantial sum. So, yeah, it was a little shady. A question . I am not american, but little house on the prairie, that little that series was a benchmark in my family. Can i request something . Because i believe that the majority of the people in here are a big fan of you. So, can i i mean, can we take a photograph at the end . [laughter] well, she was going to sign, but there are no books to sign. No, i would be happy to. Thank you. That is really cute. Do we have any other questions . Because i could keep asking questions all night long. But i dont know. Pam . You kind of mentioned this at the beginning, and one author brought up that rose really was the author of the books. And i read the annotated bibliography. It took me forever, but i read it. And when you read that, you can see where she sent things to rose and rose kept saying them sending them back saying no, do this, do this. It was more like rose was her editor than the author, so for me it will always be Laura Ingalls wilders books. Yeah, they definitely had a collaboration, is what people often call it. I think it was kind of mother, daughter, writer, editor collaboration. But rose contributed a lot, and clearly edited more heavily than a standard editor in new york might have done at that time. So, it is worth studying and talking about. And i do not think we are done with that, even today. And there are certain stages of the manuscript that appear to be missing. So, it really does show you a lot about their process when you look at what remains. I think though that it is clear that laura did produce the raw material that became the books, rose brought a lot to it in the editing. Can you compare her writing in her columns to the writing in the novels, and tell, is there any substantial difference in the tone or in the language see uses she uses or her style of writing . Yeah, there are some really interesting moments in the farm columns, and also in the speech that she delivered about her work, which was entirely hers. Rose did not contribute to it at all. She gave a famous speech at the detroit book fair about why she had written the books. She was only halfway through at that point. But i think that you can tell that she had her own voice, she had her own style, which was very different than roses. She had a very plainspoken, not melodramatic, very sensual satual and kind of affecting tone, whereas roses contributions are much more hypo dramatic hyperdramatic and more polished sometimes. So it is possible to discern the different voices. And i think a lot of what makes the little house books unique is lauras voice and her perceptions, her memories of what she saw and experienced. I have two completely unrelated questions. The first is, the books are somewhat fictionalized. How much would you say is history and how much is fiction . I think what is in the books is often very factual and factually accurate. Laura really cared about getting things right. And described things quite accurately. For example, the famous locust plague on the banks of plum creek. Very accurate description. What she left out was what happened to the family after that event. The period of kind of financial collapse and homelessness and drifting around. So, a lot of how shes changing her stories, leaving things out that she did not want to write about that she thought were not appropriate for children. And the second question, regarding her estate. Is any part of her estate used to maintain the various sites, like mansfield and lum creek . Plum creek. Not directly, to my knowledge. I know that Roger Mcbride did give generously to some of the sites, including mansfield. I think he was instrumental in helping them set up a museum. I think he also contributed items from his from roses possessions to dismat. I know they have some of her furniture and other materials, things that he had. I dont know whether he set up any kind of permanent bequest, but i know that he did give them. I think many of them, though, struggle for funding. And it is too bad that there is not a kind of National Support for those sites. Like a lot of literary sites, they really do need help. Didnt mansfield have plans to build another building or something . They did. It opened a couple years ago. They have a new museum now. Any other questions . We will just wrap it up then. Thank you all so much for coming. Lets give a round of applause. [applause] he said why did you keep saying you were an solitary . You just said you were a long been had i thought i have given an incredible gift of time. No meetings, no plans, no appointments. On sunday at six clark p. M. Eastern, from the nixon president ial library, their experiences as has to sherry Committee Lawyers during an impeachment trial. Examinells on you to abuses of power by the president. As circumspect and careful as he was. Restrain yourself from grandstanding and holding conferences and playing to your base. Playing to your base. This goes way beyond whose side is on you are on or who is on your side. Explore our nations past on American History tv. This weekend on lectures in history, Johnson County Community College professor teaches a class on the expansion of the United States during the spanishamerican war and the acquisition of hawaii. Here is a preview. And 1890, america increased tariffs on hawaiian sugar. You see a major disruption to their economy. With u. S. Military support from pearl harbor overthrew the hawaiian government. The president at the time supported adding hawaii as a territory of the United States. However, congress does not get it done before he leaves office. Alliance of vocally oppose it. They knew if they used violence invasion, an american if an American Invasion took they would be deemed enemies and they would not be allowed to keep their property. They do not violently resist. President mckinley supported and congress annexed hawaii as part in july. Ited states annex is almost always the word you see described. Annex generally means acquire without war. What native hawaiians agree the state peaceful transition . No. They would view it as hostile and aggressive. Nx is a word that comes from the view aboutpoint of the colonized peoples point of view. Learn more about the expansion of the United States and the acquisition of hawaii saturday at 8 00 p. M. And midnight eastern on lectures in history. Join the classroom. I wanted to tell you that i hang my head in shame at the industry. Say, the very unfair personalized reporting of these fellows. Ought to know that opinion because you are going to be disappointed in me down the road if i didnt tell you that. Frankly, ielling you think the industry is wrecking all of us. That is heavyhanded. You can imagine what it was like for the journalist the next day. Very disturbing. We are hearing that today. The press is the enemy of the American People according to president trump. The press is not the enemy. The press is out there doing work for the American People. Q a, she night on talks about the tension between american president s and the press. Once cspan q a sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. The six aaa postal directory italian was the first female unit sent overseas during world war ii. Next, veterans of the unit share memories of their Service Processing millions of pieces of backlogged mail for troops. Americane at the veteran Center Annual conference and washington, d. C. The first female africanamerican graduate of the u. S. Military academy moderates. American the young stud and said mr. Prime minister would you tell us the secret of your success . The Prime Minister replied study history. Study history. Learn all the secrets of statecraft. You heard a great phrase, theres