Good morning, everybody. We are going to get started. Buenos dias and welcome to the american dialogue. Thank you all very, very much for coming. Tomorrow. At 5 00 p. M. , puerto ricos ricardo rosello, of the new Progressive Party, will no longer be the islands governor. Rosello has come, came under enormous pressure, after highlyoffensive, outrageous and tasteless chat messages between him and close aides were leaked on july 13th. Touching off massive street protests across the island, demanding his resignation. As is the case throughout many Latin American Companies these days with anticorruption movements, jump lifts played a key role, as these messages were published by port partner recoss center for Investigative Journalism. At first rosello resisted but it has been increasingly clear that what has been dubbed as wikileaks was the last straw and the situation was unsustainable. Rosello has named pedro as secretary of state, who if confirmed would then probably step in as rosellos successor. For many Puerto Ricans, the messages, the chat messages exposed the corruption and cronyism of the islands government. That, together with longstanding grievances about a bad economy, 12 years of recession, and the governments poor response to Hurricane Maria two years ago, provoked an unprecedented organic social explosion and movement. Many observers have described the current moment as a powerful awakening, that offers the opportunity for meaningful reforms and positive change. But seizing such an opportunity will not be easy and will not be quick, and faces enormous obstacles. These are, after all, uncharted waters. This morning we are very fortunate to have with us three experts to help us understand what is happening in puerto rico, what it all means, and how to move forward. First, we have the washington correspondent for nuea dia, port recoss newspaper of record and covered affairs and publications since 2001, we welcome him, he will have to leave us a little bit early because he has to cover a hearing at the senate. It is very relevant to puerto rico, and so we are glad hes with us, but he will have to leave us a little bit early, but thank you, jose. Gretchen sierra loita is a Public Policy communications consultant. Gretchen deserves credit for having enormous attention in dc for issues affecting Puerto Ricans on the ide and the mainland to actively participate in a number of initiatives including the National Hispanic leadership agenda, puerto rico, working group, thank you, gretchen, for being here. And pedro renna, pedro is an awardwinning historian and journalist, specializing in contemporary spanish caribbean history. He is full professor of humanities and arts and Cultural Agency at the university of puerto rico and is now the Wilbur Marvin visiting scholar at harvard university. He has had a distinguished academic career, received his doctorate from the centralist puerto rico de caribe and pedro just came in from boston, from harvard, so we thank him very, very much for being here. It is great to have you with us. Before starting this succession, let me recognize the extraordinary efforts of ricardo banoes my colleague for pushing and prodding to organize this event and his first tremendous coordination of all of the details and administration. So thank you, ricardo, for making this happen. Let me say i also see a lot of people in the audience, with a lot of expertise, and a lot to share about the situation in puerto rico, so we look forward to your comments, and your thoughts. So lets start with jeose, and f you could just tell us, share your perspective, about these protests that weve seen, where do they come from, and sort of came out of nowhere, and how do you interpret whats the factors that are behind these protests, and what is different, if anything, about these protests than other kind of movements and protests that weve seen before. [ inaudible ]. We unite an outraged people in a quest for justice. Most of the demonstrations i would say happened, including the biggest, the first biggest one of july 17th, when hundreds of thousands gathered near the old san juan. Benito martinez, and ricky martin, ricky the good one as he is known now, were active participants. But really, no one knows exactly who, who of the big brothers, that to me, it was very important, because we found out it was confirmation, that the country was not confident in its governor. And for me, that was a call from the people, saying that, asking for senor to be resigned. If we get a concentration, with five days later, july 22nd, that one was called for, the one that was called for, that meeting was president ial, and that one we know who started the call for the activity. They were, along with ricky martin, were future leaders with any others called into action. And there were 600,000 people answered that call. It took 15 days for rosello to resign. But i want to highlight the activism of these musical artists, especially i will mention bonnie, because i think it is interesting to me, he can attract many young people who have not been enthusiastic about joining politics or political debates, and my question now with, and i know everybody, you know, we were talking before the start of the event that who knows what can happen, you know, in two hours, but we decided to become the keepers of our political situation, and looking ahead to 2020, if i were a politician, i would be very worried. Thank you. And what do you think assess the prospects of, i mean, you know, it is hard to predict what is going to happen, but today, we have the confirmation hearing for the former commissioner of puerto rico for eight years, and former candidate, he lost, in june, april, 2016, against rosello. We dont know if he have the votes. A lot of members of the senate and the legislation, the president of the senate, who will be the next governor, and he has not said a candidate, but all of the supporters mentioning him, or giving him public support, we saw he wants the job. He is already the leader of the ncp, because the other Vice President of the party, rosaels and carlos mendez, the speaker of the house, allowed them to take the leadership. So we are counting votes. The new Progressive Party, that is the one that is there to save puerto rico, everybody is counting the votes. I dont see only, you know, i believe that only if something is said in the senate, thats okay, confirm him, i dont see how he is going to confirmed, in the senate, and with the democratic party, the main opposition party, is not going to support him, at least they are not going to be consensus with him, but with the population divided, with the ncb divided, i cannot guess. I dont know if he is going to have the support of the senate. Maybe he can get the support in the house. Im very doubtful at this moment that he has the votes in the senate. Let me just follow up, if i could, what are the street, i mean one thing is the vote, the other thing is the streets, and the pressure, what would they like to see happen, what are the people protesting, what now, we are in a situation where tomorrow, its 5 00, hes out, there is no governor, looking for a replacement, do they expect him to pick somebody who is completely not in his party . I think they want a change, but you know, becauses they candidates, ive been watching, maybe being in san juan, i think we can agree that they want change now, they want clean politics, they want to get out of the cronyism, to achieve partisanship, which would achieve partisanship, but i cannot say that, but i cant say exactly what all of those different people were trying to say, or how to move forward, up to this moment, you know, it is not clear. In the past, we can say the opposition leaders were calling for this. The unions were asking for this and this. Now, its clear that they are tired of corruption, theyre tired of partisanship. I will make a comment. People will have to remember, in 2016, 17 of the vote went to independent candidate. In 2012, if im not wrong, 4 only was for a party that were not the Popular Democratic party or the new Progressive Party, they are the one that had been governing puerto rico locally for the last 60 years, so i think, you know, you mentioned the economic situation, static measures, i also remember that one of the callers used the word, we heard, during the process, was this, that he resigned, and take the board with you, so you know, maybe the board has to be, at this moment, people are tired about austerity, but at the same time, people understand that we are in a fiscal crisis, that there is a big debt, people are asking for an audit of the debt, they are asking in the draft that we published this publish this wee, the person in charge of Puerto Rican Affairs in the u. S. House included that proposal as one of the alternatives. He also is claiming for the possibility of charging part of unsecure debt, a proposal that is wide in media. There has been submitted to Congress Last towards the years. So, you know, i dont know. I cannot tell you exactly what can happen. I dont think that they want more of the same. We may see that, you know, tomorrow at 5 00 p. M. That can be celebratory moment or more come forward with the process. Great. Thank you very much. Gretchen. Lets turn to you. Pick up where jose left off. You study Public Policy issues related to puerto rico. How does one take advantage of this, people thinking about what are the next steps this revealed enormous corruption, discontent, economy, response to Hurricane Maria. How do you see this movement, this energy really translating into Public Policy changes, reforms in puerto rico. Well, theres two aspects of it. One, is this on . Theres two aspects. Theres two aspects of this. One is the learning process of people in puerto rico as agents of change. People have had experience with rebellion and have not gone well. You dont have a clear way out. While Puerto Ricans have traditionally voted on election day and have high voter turnout, this whole notion of the individual being an agent of political or social change is not as engrained as in the United States. Let me give you an example. When i see something in the news, i dont do this every day, dont get the wrong impression, i will either call my congressman or send him an email. If it really annoys me, i may ask for a meeting. Again, i dont do this i am not that kind of person, but i have done it. That notion of being an active citizen is not something that has been part of their experience. Try to find your legislature and website for the puerto rican legislature. It is not easy. So going back to what im trying to say here is that i think and i hope that this experience of that yes, i can be an agent of change, yes, i can ask for change, and actually get it, you know, there was results. One thing to ask and push and get nowhere, they actually had results is an awakening, a learning process that they see this is something that they can do and should be cultivated. I hope the organizing groups on the ground take advantage of this moment to turn it into a learning moment of what a citizen can accomplish, and what is the proper conduct of an active citizen. So i think thats one thing we learned from. The other thing that worries me a lot is this coalition. This is a highly organic coalition. I thought what jose had to say about the urban artist was interesting because a lot of the people that were there dont listen. People love him. So what im trying to say is yes, people love ricky martin, these people pull together people who dont even like the type of music they produce. But somebody wrote an article, wasnt me, about the role of the arts in these demonstrations and how they united Puerto Ricans. Theyre very funny, beyond funny. Theyre very creative. This is the way they express themselves and unite it. They see expressions of creativity and art. The ways they protest were beyond funny. They have protests that was a protest, then they had a man who i love, this man who would go with 3,000 motor bikes and spend the evening through the housing projects in puerto rico, getting everybody behind the cause. People take pictures. You could see the highway with light coming through. At the end of it, he would show up. Everybody became a huge fan of ray charlie. Another day they brought horses. I saw yesterday that the weather reporter had a protest where she was rolling down a hill. She had a miss where she fell and rolled down a hill. These are expressions. Then theres music, dancing, all sorts of things. Puerto ricans are not experienced at building coalitions. Not because were necessarily Puerto Ricans, a lot of people including in washington, d. C. Are not experienced at building coalitions. They dont understand a coalition. A coalition is something where there is one issue that people agree on and feel strongly about, not kind of strong, but like really strong. And the issue here is corruption. And as long as that is the focus, i think theyll be able to keep the coalition and keep the pressure. The problem is people start inserting extraneous issues. Trying to solve it is on a lane that goes to congress, and track to stop corruption is on lane that goes to the government of puerto rico. If you try to put the two together, youre dividing the energy and thought process. The same thing with status issues or Political Parties and so forth. So the moment you start inserting other issues, you start losing people. Not everybody is in agreement. So you have to focus to keep the energy. The other thing is you have to, this sounds silly, you have to lead a move with a generous heart. You have to try to embrace everyone and everything, not act out of spite. As an example theres change. Org resolution going around change the name of the Convention Center to something else, take the name off because of this. These are people that are part of the movement. Acts of this sort does not accomplish anything but alienate people. To wrap it up, i am very concerned that this movement could lose focus, and splinter and lose energy. And im concerned about back to school. If this happened during the school year, it would not have been the same. We have to think about things like back to school, University Students going back and forth as we move forward. Thank you very much. Gretchen, that was terrific. Pedro. If we could step back a bit. Youre a historian, you have that perspective, bring that perspective to recent events. Is this different from what we have seen before in puerto rico and if so how . Is this a new kind of politics . Is this really inflection, a break, or do you see it as an episode, a moment and then well sort of resort to sort of business as usual in puerto rico. I think this is a momentous occasion. You look at it from historical point of view, theres no precedent for Puerto Ricans taking to the streets for so many days and for the it was very organic. What fielded, the thing that drew most people to change their behavior going to the streets is a sense of trauma. There were many things kept under a lid that have been developing in the past three, four years. Think of the bankruptcy, think of the hurricane. The fact that people felt abandoned. Corruption was not a big driver. People were disgusted with whats going on. Think of trauma, seven people appointed with full immunity, having no recourse to challenge. People kept swallowing and swallowing. I guess what tipped it over. For the first time, people are willing to step forward and say youre mocking us. Were going to shame you. In very creative ways. In that moment what i would hold in looking for a comparison, partisan politics in puerto rico are a blood sport. Puerto rico has only had an elected governor and legislature through most of that period, you know, both main parties, state hood party and Popular Democratic party basically shared power. They acted like a cartel. They had common interests when they approach the administration of the colony. They paid close attention to certain things and there came a point they were undistinguishable. That created a system of levies like new orleans and many cities containing the waters. They were protesting the pass of course. University students bear historically the weight of being responsible for very violent protests. When this started, it was common for people to say ah, it is the same people. That was wrong. Of course unions have protested in the past. And of course there have been civil manifestations. In 2003 had a march to get the navy out of they spent 60 years bombing and polluting the island municipality, but that protest lasted one day, was convened by then governor and religious leaders. She presided the march, i remember her walking the street, it was 2000. But in any case, it was the convocation came from authority. Different from this. It only lasted one day. But it is a series of events led to the navys leaving. But i use it as reference. Not saying it is the same thing. But what in my opinion happened was that more angry people became and more frustrated with what was going on the island in that moment, the levees broke. Calling on people to manifest themselves. That sort of announced arrival of a different moment. People say millennials are not into politics. I would say millennials are not into partisan politics. Theyre very political. And this was the chance like say okay, i have to get myself out on the street. In my opinion one cannot understand this. I will refer back to what gretchen was saying. I think the fact that the manifestations and protest took so many days can only be understood as the floor move because people, for example, need to understand that for 120 years, we have been a u. S. Colony. We need to talk about u. S. Imperialism to understand whats behind this. We cannot hide behind the fact were second class citizens. We need to ask why are we second class citizens. Did we ask for u. S. Citizenship . No. We got it and got second class citizenship, it was tailored to needs of the u. S. Congress. So as a result, all of the violence that has come from that, the asymmetry of power basically helps to begin explaining the feelings that were seeing represented in the population and in public. On top of that, why do we use culture as a way of expressing ourselves because one needs to consider that Puerto Ricans that oppose the United States have been jailed, have been repressed for many years. People took it and internalize after 1957 when the gag law, we had a gag law 47 to 57. When this law was passed, we were at some point second Political Force on the island, pushed back to the third, and kept there. And people internalize. Wow. If i use the flag, if i speak spanish, if i express difference in government, i can lose my job, my house. So all of this happened and as a result we have not been able to express our National Pride like any other nation would. And in that moment, artists became representatives of us. That is why Puerto Ricans, professional athletes or olympic athletes have also been a representation of National Pride and people felt comfortable expressing their feelings in sort of a safe environment because youre rallying around the national team. When this moment came, it was natural for people to use culture as a vehicle because we feel comfortable. And that is when the artists coming in and you see that not only have they convene in power but people respond in their very own creative ways. Lastly, i think like i said in the beginning, what drives this is anger. You know, we are angry. How does that translate into the next phase . It is hard to see. It is obvious people want instant gratification. It is only natural. We are human. They protested, got the governor to resign. Thats as much as we can get at this point. My theory, the one i would like to offer, is that the next stage is not so much who is going to be governor, this is a game of thrones. If you read the paper now, theres so many possible scenarios. But in my estimation, the next focus of anger will be the legislature because in the end, the legislature has been a corrupt body for the longest time. And people are angry. One of the persons vying for governorship is the president of the senate, and he is not well liked to say the least because hes very confrontational, misogynistic, homophobic. In the latin american sense, he is smart, fast, in your face, whatever. And why the legislature . Because it was only people like it why, they thought they were going to come clean the house. We learned since 2016 they havent been that willing to do anything that may disturb status quo. People actually wanted la hoonta to take extreme measures against politicians. We know they wont do it. Why . Because they also have interests. However, recently, they started putting controls on legislature, demanding the Legislature Budget be revealed. And that is the ultimate thing. Because the legislature is where past politicians, relatives and friends find jobs. Surrendering control of the Legislature Budget is like the ultimate step. So at this point i expect people to turn their anger towards the legislature because right now after the governors resignation, what we have seen is everyone vying for position. But vying for partisan positions, not for citizen positions. If that were the case, they would have chosen a completely different interim governor, someone with credibility, moral capital. Right now, its the governing party has recently learned theyre going to have an up hill battle to get reelected, and they want someone they can trust to put hands on the levers of power. Thats how i see it. Who is there with moral capital. Yes. The mayor a state hooder, people expect him to be a figure people could coalesce around. Senator saint hammer, another. But they were never approached. This is just a game of who can i trust. And obviously the president of the senate knows that he has veto power basically. And whomever sits there, he is going to be someone can respond to his interest. Gretchen, youre here in washington. How has washington is there a sense theres opportunity now to do something, what is your sense with congress, administration, different parts of the washington scene. I think this started 15 days ago. People were giving space for events to develop. I still think to some extent they still are. It was very unnerving that President Trump did not tweet for a long, long time when this was going on, which led to some decisions of something is going on and we dont know about it, because he is so quiet and thats so unlike him. There were on the opposite side, the democratic side, people were reticent to say anything, let things develop, not wanting to jump into the fray and show themselves as people who intervene in affairs of others. And then congressman jumped the gun, and somebody interviewed him and he kind of spoke off the cuff. It was just an automatic response. He said i think he should resign. People were appalled because this is viewed as interference, internal affairs. Soon after that events took over, then it became obvious. Then other people joined that call. Some before, some later. And because it became apparent, it was not about this person being against a Political Party of this person or against this person per se, the fact this person lost complete credibility. That he was no longer able to govern. And stability was needed. And that we needed to move on. I think the second issue thats very intense is the federal funds. How are we going to get funds right there. You have a sense of the funding. This disaster was estimated at 91 billion. I think it is the third or fourth most expensive disaster in the history of the u. S. , and of that the federal government has allocated around 42 billion for puerto rico. And of that, around 14 or so billion has been disbursed, meaning out the door. Thats a third of the money thats out there. Before this scandal happened, we know that we, puerto rico, is not a priority for President Trump. That was very clear. The response to puerto rico both in terms of disaster and in terms of the federal roll was delayed in a way that wasnt delayed for other states. On top of that you had his suspicion of corrupt activity. I think we need to be frank with ourselves. President trump would have tweets, he would say we have given them 91 billion and theyre all corrupt. Everybody on twitter would go youre wrong, you lie, it is not 91 billion. Nobody would say anything about the corruption. Crickets. So you know, now we have strengthened his hand basically. Now he has cause and reason to say well, i was right. So thats a problem. So before the scandal, the money was definitely being held up here. And still is. Now it will be more difficult. So i dont know if you want me to go ahead and talk about this, interrupt me please if im too long, but this is why people are going around with ideas of federal intervention of this or that sort. Federal intervention has already happened. The funding, fema funding that was approved at core three, this entity in puerto rico is now because of this being approved back in washington. We have federal officials in department of education where head of department, former head was one of the people indicted, we have also in housing which handles the grants, the big block housing grants that are used for reconstruction. It is like the name of a band, cbddbr. Those are handled through housing. Theyre thinking of putting federal officials in transportation i heard. So we already have changes. The question is Going Forward what else. People are very afraid of la junta acquiring more power. I want to say this again. I will say it again and again. Theres section da da da da da, number f la junta has power to require accountability, transparency, Good Management of funds, and it never exercised it. So the blame is partly on them. And to say that they need more power when they had power and did not use it is illogical. Theres a proposal that includes a federal monitor to oversee programs. People jumped at the idea. Then a bill also has, the draft as jose mentioned has a reference to some coordinator. Theres clearly out there, people outside puerto rico looking for that. So the idea has been planted there. I want to say two things about that, maybe three. But two. One is people hear federal monitor, see more power. There is a role for the federal government. And the role is as follows. The federal government has the expertise, the capacity, the know how. They have been dealing with the federal acquisition regulations for eons to transfer knowledge to puerto rico. They can play a very good and supportive role. The same way the u. S. Government goes to the third world and does Capacity Building in the third world, which includes things like this, we can do something similar. Theres definitely a role for the federal government. The concern that many have, including myself, is if you have an external actor to come and fix things, snls the external actor leaves, youre back where you started, overused phrase, give the manna fi a fish, you f him a day, give him the stick, he feeds for a lifetime. People need to internalize things. Some things that came out in chats are stuff that i used to be a former federal government official, my body does not permit me to do things they were talking about. I have been trained here, not there. Okay . So it has to be in puerto rico, how im not exactly sure. A lot of people talk about umbrella oversight organizations that include the civic sector, business sector, you know, unions, you name it. Check and balances to whats going on. It has to happen, whatever happens, it has to be puerto rican led. And one last thing i want to say and ill stop, the Business Community. The Business Community has a role and responsibility in this. Part of the anger thats coming out of this is because the social divide in puerto rico has grown massively in the last 13 years. As a result, the recession, la junta cuts, and maria. And we are among the top ten, places with highest income inequality, the gap between the lowest and highest, which has nothing to do with poverty by the way, that is real. A lot of anger comes from that. We used to have a robust middle class. We always pride ourselves saying we have a middle class, not like mexico with very rich and very poor people. It effects the tax base and effects the consumer base. Going back to business class, they have been reticent to join in politics. Partly because theyre beneficiaries of contracts or whatever, one was president of bdo, big consultants, and so sometimes it is just they dont want to be part of it. But this is not going to effect the bottom line. But going down the road, it could effect the bottom line. More than that, they have a social responsibility, they have the clout, they have the know how, they have economic muscle. They fund campaigns. They can go and say this has got to stop. We need to put it on the Business Community to take an active role. Oriental bank has spoken, people have spoken, we need more people like this to put it in the face of the government. Thank you very much. Before we open it up, let me ask pedro another question, then well get your questions. Start thinking about what you want to say. Pedro, in terms of where this goes, theres enormous uncertainty, hard to predict. One of the things youll be looking for, what should we all be following to get a sense of where this is headed over the next we have to have some leadership. Again, we are going to have to begin seeing faces that are credible that are not partisan and can articulate a vision. That is not happening at this point because the artists we referred to basically convene some of the protests. Their job is not to assume leadership. If this is going to move beyond, were going to begin seeing perhaps some division. But we would need a way to articulate a vision because institutions, you know, the government in puerto rico is like in any other state here, we have elections every four years. Dont have mechanisms to recall public officials. It is not like we can bring down the government. Institutions are there to preserve order and rule of law. We need to follow rule of law like it or not because it is the only road map we have. Were going to see some pretty dramatic i think things happening as actors jockeying for position come tomorrow at 5 00. Beyond that, if the ball kicks, kick to the Supreme Court, which is something, in the horizon, pierre luisi is rejected by legislature, it is clear the matter will be sent to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court in puerto rico is as polarized as here. So whatever they do will be interpreted as expression of partisan politics. Uncertainty has been with us before. We didnt know what was going to happen. La junta came into power three years. Their performance is soso. They have been very timid. But la junta tried to have a federal official of the treasury. But the court, the judge thats presiding puerto rico courts thought it wasnt a good idea. Someone to control the finances was put in place. The Washington Post called for greater control of Puerto Ricans affairs which people fear. The more you federalize the government, more power you take from citizens. And remember, the illusion for puerto rico for half century was that we could govern ourselves, we had control over our affairs. Thats what basically led the Popular Democratic party, what allowed them to paint a picture of puerto rico being sort of sovereign. That, however, came to a stop with all of the developments and decision from u. S. Supreme court, people versus sanchez bali, that clarified the colonial condition. And the u. S. Supreme court has shown more willingness to take on puerto rico cases because she is not afraid of digging into complex matters. Were going to see courts expressing themselves more. One final comment. Harvard law journal published a special number a year ago, calling for something called territorial, the author basically the fact they couldnt get anything done, that perhaps courts could move the ball forward. The only Puerto Ricans judge at the appellate level said enough colonial experiments. This needs to be clarified by legislature and by the courts. So the plot thickens. Comments. Tell us about this. Start here. Dont Start Talking until you have the microphone. First, you started saying uncharted territory. Puerto rico has always had life charted but by someone else. Puerto rico back to 1492, 93. Theres nobody to do charting now. Theres nobody to do charting right now. So theyre waiting for somebody to chart, trying to invent a chart where to go, but theyve never done it before. Last time puerto rico ran its own destiny, the governor was last autonomous governor of puerto rico. The problem is powerlessness. Were talking about symptoms which have to be addressed. The patient is ill and needs attention. Fundamental disease is powerless. You reach a point people realize theyre powerless. And washington doesnt know what to do with it. There are structures, they dont use the structures. They come here, they learn soon to use the structure because theyre dependable. They dont vote as much, but use the structures. Puerto ricans, they never created the structures. We have to move to other people. I am saying this point to pedro and gretchen. Right behind you, please. Helen santiago. I spent five months in puerto rico as a planner working for fema. My question, do you see any potential for municipal to play a stronger role. A number of municipalities saying were not applying for disaster funds coming in, were not the right color. Clearly the partisanship is there. Might be a wakeup call. Outside of san juan, having the municipality play a stronger role directing the future of puerto rico . Thank you. This gentleman here. In front. Were coming back. One more question. Just three. Is that okay . Thank you. Well come back and do another round. This question for gretchen. State who you are. Federico jesus, former Administration Official here and in puerto rico and consultant. I want to address the question to gretchen, shes the media expert, anybody can answer. Part of the corruption issue was in the private sector, especially in media, and chats revealed pay to play with reporters being fed questions and pay to play schemes. I think corruption has been institutionalized. If you can talk about how media and government incorporations are also involved in the scheme, that would explain the society why indignation beyond the lets go back to gretchen and pedro. Then another round of questions and comments. Microphone, please. My understanding, they used to have experience handling these grants, and what were now talking about is a program of humongous amounts of funding. Whatever capability they had, this is like saying okay, you can do one pushup, now you have to do 100. So there is that issue. Insofar as partisanship, that drives me nuts. It is not even local money, on account of partisanship is crazy. But it is going to get complicated. The is he session going on, people that support are the mayors of the island. The ones from his party, not necessarily the other ones. So the mayors are part of the if they succeed bringing that, which we dont know now, will they open the gates for mayors, i dont know. Theres a role for the mayors, they have to be part of the process, i dont think they have capability to handle that kind of funding with some type of structure. I think there has to be some supportive structure for them to handle, and be in Decision Making from beginning to end. Theyre the ones that know whats going on down there. I dont think they can do it on themselves. On the media, you know, before trump we could say that does not happen in the United States. But after trump, it is so crazy. Well, if it happened, we could but after trump, the media is equally crazy. You have to go through reams of stuff, avoid certain places to get down to the truth. But yes, the chats did reveal that there was influence of media. And i think people have taken that in stride. I think theyre more shocked by other things that have happened. I can tell you something thats happened to me thats strange and interesting and i laugh with joy that this has happened, it has to do with media. One of the people that broke the story that was significant, the equivalent of propublicly ka, nonprofit, nonprofia, nonprofit, does not a little operation, ten editors and reporters, and la junta has i think 18 people in puerto rico and staff and doconsultants and broke this major story. I had this idea the next day i am starting a facebook fundraiser. I put a 500 limit. And then 2,000, and then the thing started going in the same way as the protests, organic. It is now at somewhere last time i looked, reaching 28,000. And i plan to close it down when we have somebody. I dont know who that somebody will be. That tells you a lot. You put it out to friends and then it went out there. Everybody is trying to friend me now. I dont know you, i cant friend you. And they were i have gotten from 5 to 500 in donations. That tells you people in puerto rico have a deep appreciation for the press. This is in like a week. It is crazy. It is funny in a good way. Have a deep appreciation for the press. Deep appreciation for the free press, and appreciation for people that gave them the formation to do it. In puerto rico, we dont have great oversight independent organizations. The ones that do do it, have enormous trouble getting information. Half the time theyre suing people to get information as other organizations and so forth. So these organizations are really, the press is extremely important. That little fundraiser is proof. Pedro . Do you want to add . Yes, on the municipality. They have 78 municipalities. You have them very rich and very poor. Mayors hold an important lever of power. You cannot get elected if the mayors dont do outreach to people. They as a block are very important. But conditions by la junta are threatening small municipalities. Some are struggling for survival to provide basic services. And in this scenario, i dont think theres much. They are not in position to offer the accountability many of them will demand. Maybe they can come together and create a coalition or something, but i see municipalities as being frail moving forward. They have been dependent on the government for general expenses. Now theyre being asked to carry more of the weight by la junta, and some of them simply cant. Well lock the door, walk out. See what happens. On the media, media market is strong, the economy in puerto rico has been in depression over a decade. And as a result we have more partisan media, theyre depending on the government for advertising money. Revealed a complex picture, the participants in the chat were incredibly conscious of public image. Very willing to use any means possible to silence critics and to use troll farms as way to silence that criticism. I have to say that journalist denounced this in her blog before, kept saying there are a lot of twitter account holders being paid by the government. And in the end, you know, it proved to be right. I think that center for Investigative Journalism has, you know, basically raised the standard. This is their historic moment. They have been around a long time. As gretchen said, suing right and left for information. And this is the one outlet now that people trust. Full disclosure, i have been a columnist for 16 years. And the paper has been, you know, indicted in public discussions because it has been mentioned in social media, it has been questioned about business practices. A Media Company and real estate company, it is a complex operation. So a lot of scrutiny is on the main Media Outlets now, and it is still influx. Were trying to see what else we learn. Allegedly there are more chats to be revealed. We havent spoken about federal raef arrests. We talked about expecting more arrests having to do with corruption, but one final comment on this. I dispute the notion that oh, the problem is that puerto ricos Political Class is corrupt. You dont have a colony to be fair. Over the past 120 years, a lot of people have profited from puerto rico being a colony. Follow the money. Congress has assumed this very moral authority tone and saying oh, yes, yes, no. Puerto rico, youre bankrupt . Youre going to have to pay yourself. So were paying for la junta. But follow the money. See how Many Committee chairmen raised money in the past 40, 50 years. Everyone was profiting from puerto rico. Corporations were profiting, banks were profiting from puerto rico. All of a sudden it is only our fault . Lets take another round of questions. Thank you. Tell us who you are. I am howard hills. I am executive office of the president and National Security council, i was lead counsel negotiating treaties with Marshall Islands and micronesia. Recently written a book citizens without a state, regarding puerto ricos Self Determination process. I want to say i think the last couple of points the panel made were the most important. Earlier you said that Business Community had to take leadership role addressing corruption and what not. Thats the most important thing i heard said today along with comments about the 936 companies on the take, too. But at any rate, the point is when the Business Community in puerto rico decides that it is Good Business to end corruption, they can participate in the structures that were used to here in order to bring about, address corruption issues. Theyre the ones that have the economic power and political power to end it quickly. I want to agree with your remarks. One thing i didnt agree with was, wasnt a matter of disagreeing, they werent treated the same as other states. Thats because puerto rico is not a state it wasnt treated the way texas and florida was. The point to conclude with is this. You look historically with 32 territories that have become states and four governed, u. S. Governed territories that have become nations, generally speaking it is crisis that leads to political status solution. And alaska, if they had not become a state in 59, and that earthquake from 64 hit alaska before it became a state, it would have been treated like puerto rico was with maria. The point is, you look at kansas, you look at mississippi, alabama, forget idaho, utah, it was always a crisis that led to congress realizing we need to make this a state or we need to make it a nation. The philippines, it was the Japanese Occupation in world war ii. I want to end saying i agree with what alexandra ocasiocortez said. I think it will lead to state hood or nation hood. And one thing i think is important historic note, 1952 when people went to the polls, i believe they have a high sense of political efficacy, they voted for a constitution that said u. S. Citizenship was paramount importance to their identity as a people. Thank you, thank you very much. Very helpful. You back there. Wait for the microphone, please. Hello, i am ali martinez, senior policy analyst. Thank you for the panel. Great dialogue. We have been mentioning how local politics now is like a gots story. That is not to be taken lightly. I think it points out to constitutional deficiencies. I mean, of course theres the major constitution deficiency of being part of a colonial setting, but talking more local mechanisms for participation. So what are your thoughts about what comes now . What should be done now after all this power struggle gets settled. Hopefully crossing our fingers in the best way possible. What will come out of this. There should be constitutional amendments in puerto rico, like lets say integrate or change the figure of secretary of state, like a vice governor that is elected by the people or maybe referendum mechanism could be used to avoid having to have massive protests in order to be able to express ourselves when we dont like a public servant, et cetera. What are your thoughts on that . Thank you very much. Peter, do you have a question . Then two more. Peter hakim. This is one of the first public discussions that i participated in about puerto rico where the status of the island, state independence, continued as it is that hasnt been a central theme, that didnt evolve. The previous question, your question, did begin to raise it. And i just rather than saying what should happen, you see that the events in the past couple months changing the politics in some kind of profound way, is this really a disruption, big change for puerto rico thats going to lead to more or not saying yes or no, but what is the prospect of being a major shift in politics. Thank you. Were going to come back to these two. Those are the last two questions. Then come back to gretchen. Two more questions. Hope youre taking notes. Jack martin. My question basically ties into a couple of other questions that have been put to the panel. That has to do with the fact that when you have an outpouring like this, it basically says that the people dont have any confidence in the judicial system as the solution to the problem. Is that a correct assumption . This is from point of view that we would expect if we had this type of problem with regard to corruption in a state in the United States, that it would be dealt with by the judicial system, and people wouldnt have to turn out in massive protests. And that also ties into this question, does this type of an outpouring of public an tip thee to the ruling system indicate that theres going to be concern in the future with regard to the issue of statehood, both from point of view of the u. S. And from the point of view of puerto rico. Thank you. Right next to you. Thank you. John carlos. From puerto rico. Now living in d. C. I want to follow up on what your question was, mainly it was about what could be done regarding the constitution itself. I mean, the constitution displays certain aspects how it can be change and how changes can be made. What are the possibilities of actual a Constitutional Assembly as happened between 1950 and 1952 . Thank you. Pedro, you want to start . How we see, i remember back in 2012, wrote about how the constitution itself was made for bipartisanship, and how it sets a precedent throughout the years for bipartisan, basically be the norm over the next few decades. So with so much antagonism in puerto rico against how do you see it playing out, any changes to the constitution itself or overhaul itself. [ inaudible ] who is to do business as [ inaudible ] im not questioning his integrity, but his appoint as secretary of state basically speaks about control of power rather than conceding to the publics demand of transparency. I dont see changes to the constitution happening any time soon because the legislature is acting as business as usual and as, you know, it is not in their interests right now to strengthen or to create mechanisms for the public to, you know, recall elected officials or anything like that. On the question of status, i think its one thing that struck me, these past ten years have led many Puerto Ricans to leave the island, particularly young people who have come stateside and professionals. And that has that started before the hurricane. I suspect, i havent seen any data, but i remember that in 2016 in the spring during the primaries, pedro ran against Ricardo Rossello and the new Progressive Party expected turnout to be around 600,000 people, but it only came out to about 400,000. That difference, those 200,000 people, speak about the fact that perhaps, and this is, you know, speculation. Many people that advocated statehood realized basically that its not coming any time soon so i might as well we have the opportunity, ill move stateside. We need to see more statistics on electoral participation, but the hurricane led a lot of statehooders to actually realize that no one was coming to help them, and that was an assumption that statehooders had before, the u. S. Government is there for us, theyre going to come help us. I have heard, you know, a very active political family say, you know, theyre killing us. That realization of, you know, abandonment and despair in general have i guess awakened some sort of political conscience, i dont know. But i do know that some people are less afraid of facing decolonization which is not the same to selfpreservation. Cannot only be measured by participation. A contusional assembly, in my opinion, is out of the question because each main party would be terrified of losing. So when you move the question of puerto ricos political condition, the two main Political Parties always oppose any process that they cannot control. So, for example, you know, every referendum that weve had over, you know, the last 20 years has not offered a conclusive result and the two main parties try to retain control and make sure that if theyre going to lose then they boycott the whole process to deny any legitimacy. So a lot of things have to happen before i think we can effectively address the political status, but in my estimation, things have changed. And that change is going to be expressed. I just dont know when and how. And for something radical or substantive to happen, we need leadership, and right now im not seeing it. Thank you. Gretchen . A number of questions you might want to address. Yes. Okay. Id like to start with what something that pedro said that im going to clarify. Im not sure everybody in the audience understands what he means by what he said. The if the legislature was really listening to what just happened in the last 15 days, they would have come up with a candidate that clearly was somebody everybody could support and was clearly somebody who was either very clean or willing to take a stand on corruption. Okay . That has not happened. What has happened is Ricardo Rossello has appointed pedro, who has a lot of sterling qualities, by the way, but he is the representative of the establishment of the prostatehood party. He is the establishment. On the other side who they want to nominate who represents the mayors, the municipalities, the people from the country and the fundamentalist religious sector. Hence a lot of the points of views that are not considered progressive. So the reason theyre battling this out is not because one is more honest than the other. Or pedro is more willing to take an anticorruption agenda than tommy. The reason theyre battling this out is because theyre, you know, theyre having factional infighting which, to me, is [ speaking spanish ] because i know we need stability and i know we need a smooth transition and i know we need to get back to business as fast as possible because if those federal funds are stuck up here, but they could have done better, you know . And they could have gone about this a different way. So going back to the question so i think that needed clarification, pedro, no . So going back to the questions, the judicial. Before coming here i thought, you know, what policy changes type of things would you need . The lack of independence of the judicial is imperative. It is a rubberstamping entity, and, yes, people dont have faith in it, and the woman who is currently there is, you know what . The current secretary of justice is somebody that is so objectionable. So going back to all these comments, when you think about constitutional amendments or amending the constitution, i dont think so much a secession because we cant be having this has happened once in all these years. It cant be, like, a regular thing, but i think amendments to the constitution pertaining to the department of justice and how that person is elected. Should it be elected by committee . How do you guarantee that that person is truly independence t not a rubber stamper of the government . I think that is super important. To me, secession, yes, you would have to deal with it, but i think more of the justice that i think of laws that need to be passed. That you need somebody willing to pass them. One would have to be with open data for the procurement process and, you know, having, you know, rfps not the ones that are for qualifications. Having the criteria at the opening. Deciding by committee. These are things that legally can should be done. The open data is huge. And not only do these things but actually have laws with teeth that will implement these things. We should have open data. This is a law for political contributions. You can get that information, but its hard. In the United States you have something called open secrets. You want to know who is getting money . You just open open secrets. We should have those. Those are concrete changes to laws that would really improve our capacity to govern because corruption is grounded completely in the patronage political system. To win an election you need contributors and those contributors will be regarded rewarded either an employment or contracts. And that is the source of all the corruption in puerto rico. Its not bribes from the cops. Its not all sorts of other corruption that happens in all sorts of other places in latin america. That is strictly it. So laws to regulate and enforce the contracts, procedures, laws to open up who is getting money from who, an independent justice to enforce those laws, you know, with the fury of god if you break it, you know . That is very important. And as for the status, you know, im only going to comment on the status because i find it interesting. There is, well, i guess if i lived there i might be more worried, but from here i find it interesting. People are worried that theyre going to be dropped out. You know, that the United States and the Trump Administration are going to is going to cut them off. And so they are a little bit tentative. People talk about it, you know, this might be the opportunity theyre looking to cut us off. You know, they talk a lot about venezuela and theyre very fearful of communism, which strikes me as rather odd because Puerto Ricans like to make money and keep it, you know . Theyre not about so i dont think its part of were a capitalist country. But there is a real fear of being dropped out of the map by the United States right now because he we have an irrational president and you never know. And at the same token we could go on status forever. I mean, its just such a dense, you know, clearly i thought after the hurricane more people would want to become a state. That quite didnt happen. You know, they became very proud of what they could do and accomplish themselves. I grew up in the generation where independence was not an option. You know, there were blacklists when i was growing up. We were told dont go to x place because there are going to be fbi agents. So im from that generation. I think if the nationalist movement had been given a chance, which it never was, maybe it would be a different country and maybe we would be contemplating independence as an option, but that opportunity to grow that part of us, that Political Part of us was really never given to us, so all right. 11 00 sharp. This has been i think a terrific session. Very informative. Thank you, pedro and gretchen for sharing your insights. A lot of uncertainty but also some hope, and i think that came through very, very clearly. I want to finally thank again ricardo of the dialogue for his work not only with this event but all we do on puerto rico. Weve had another event. Today we had something in the latin american yesterday in the latin american adviser. There are copies out there for you. So this is something that the dialogue will continue to follow. We think its very important to get good information and good analysis out there. Thank you all for coming this morning, for being with us. Thank you. [ applause ] later today here on cspan 3, senators ted cruz and rick scott speak at the 41st annual National Conservative conference. Senator cruzs peaspeech is at 0 p. M. Eastern and you can see it live here on cspan 3. Later in the afternoon, senator scott addresses the gathering. This weekend on American History tv. Saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on electur lectures in history. You take a look at the whole cartoon. Its a very different impression of what people thought of johnson and the constitution at the time. Not that he was a defender, but that he did not understand the constitution. It was above his ability and that he was acting in unconstitutional ways. Sunday at 6 00 on american artifacts a preview of the 19th amendment exhibit at the national archives. Women in new jersey who were americas first voters, beginning in 1776 when new jersey became a state. New jersey the new jersey state constitution made no mention of sex when discussing voting qualifications, it only had a property requirement. So women who owned enough property, primarily widows and single women, so not all women in new jersey could and did vote in elections at the local, state and national level. And at 8 00 p. M. On the presidency, author john farrell talks about nixons early life and career. 1947 and early 1948 he campaigned for the marshall plan. He went to every rotary club, every chamber of commerce, every vfw and American Legion hall. Every crowd that would take him. He told them he owed them his best judgement, not his obedience, and he convinced them. And when the Party Primaries were held in california in the summer of 1948, Richard Nixon did not just win the republican nomination, he won the democratic nomination. He had wagered everything and carried the day. He ran unopposed in his first reelection campaign. Explore our nations past on American History tv every weekend on cspan 3. Up next on cspan 3, the conversation from the middle east policy council about relations between the United States and saudi arabia. We
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