Captioning performed by vitac and its taking my men and women away from their primary mission of border security. Just as were thinking about how to deal with this, i would just ask the members here to, you know, consider, once again, i want these these families and kids in either Family Residential centers or in health and Human Services. My time is up, but we did add money or we are proposing to add money for entry level positions so your men and women can do what they need to do and then we will get those folks to do the changing of diapers and all those things. Thank you. Yes. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, madam chair. Chief, i almost want to apologize for the position that this congress and previous congresses have put you in. As a Law Enforcement officer myself, i know how frustrating it was for me back in the 70s when i was dealing with Domestic Violence cases and the law precluded me from putting people in jail that i knew had broken the law, that had abused women, and i couldnt do anything about it because of the law. So i can only imagine the frustration that you all have at the border that your men and women who care about folks are going through and their effort to carry out their job when this body fails to act on an arcane immigration system that because of our lack of action, the flores Settlement Agreement in the 1980s comes into being and that wasnt all that bad, but we didnt act. The courts did. But then what happened in 2015 was the expansion of the flores Settlement Agreement by a judge, judge dolly gi in california, she created the greatest danger for these folks who are traveling to our southern border from these northern triangle countries by saying that as long as you had a child with you, you had a free pass to get into this country. We werent going to hold you more than 20 days, change the change the structure from a reasonable time to 20 days. She created this situation. Thats why we see all these caravans, this increase in families coming to our border. We have created the pull. Weve created the incentive. Weve created the desire through the court system for these people to find children that they can then use as a key to unlock entry into the United States. And go on a very dangerous journey with drug traffickers and human traffickers who are making tons of money off of this process. Tons of money off the not only the the death of some of these kids. Its horrific. So, you know, when i look at the picture that was recently very well distributed of the gentleman with the baby in the water, everybody looked at that and assumed that they drowned. I didnt. Im a Law Enforcement officer. First thing i thought, a trafficker probably killed them, probably drowned them. Most of the rio grande you can walk across. Now, i dont know about that particular section, but its more likely to me that some human trafficker killed those individuals, not that they not that they drowned. So my question is this, in this years budget there is no money for Border Patrol officers between points of entry, but in this years budget, and i think my colleague, mr. Cuellar touched on this, what are the numbers that you are actually going to be able to hire now, that you have currently authorized . Well, i have approximately 19,500 agents right now. I do have, thankfully, 442 trainees at the academy and my classes are full at this point in time. This looks to be the second year in a row because last year we actually did hire more people than we lost by 118, i think. I am projecting that we will be somewhere around 150 to 200 more this year, assuming graduates through the trainees that i have in the academy right now. So when we talked to Field Operations who managed the ports of entry, they talked about having moved officers around and in your written testimony, at least, you mentioned 700 officers that you have moved. Now, has that had an impact on other areas . A negative impact on other areas that you had to move them from . So we currently have 731 office Field Operations, my brothers and sisters in blue that work at the ports of entry he that are supporting my men and women and our efforts. I also have 325 Border Patrol agents from the northern and coastal regions that i have pulled down on tdy, and we also have a volunteer force of 342 that are helping us with this crisis right now. It is certainly pulling them away from their other duties, but it is a necessity at this point. I desperately need their help to handle this crisis. Thank you. And my time has expired, but i want you to know that im committed to not just dealing with the symptoms of this thing, but we have to address the pull that we have all created, not you, not your officers, but this body. Thank you. By our inaction. I yield back. Ms. Wassermanschultz. Thank you, madam chair. Chief provost, i want to return to the line of questioning that share woman lowey was on, and also which is the similar line of questioning on an issue i raised with acting secretary mcaleenan. Lawyers in south florida have represented at least 20 undocumented children at the homestead facility that were apprehended far from the border in the interior of the country and who had biological parents living in the country, yet they were separated and detained as unaccompanied minors anyway. Now, i will tell you im a mother, i have twin 20 year olds and a 16yearold. My 16yearold were two hours from me as the young man who was apprehended with his uncle, documented by the miami herald and eventually released after being detained for five days without the ability to make a phone call by your officers, if my child was apprehended and they were two hours from me and i was not contacted and given an opportunity to come get her when this young man had been in the country since he was 9 months old and his mother was two hours away in the United States, that to me i would be flipping out, to say the least, but that is a direct violation of the statute and of the definition of unaccompanied minor. You cited the definition earlier to chairwoman lowey, but, as you said, it is, a, no lawful immigration status in the United States, b, has not attained 18 years of age and, c, with respect to whom there is no parent or legal guardian in the United States. Not the case with these 20 children who were apprehended in the interior, including this young man, and there is no parent and there is no parent or legal guardian in the United States available to provide care and physical custody. Now, i will tell you that if im two hours away i am available to provide care and physical and physical custody. So are you interpreting this statute to mean immediate local physical custody . Because thats not the letter of the law and its not how it reads. Congresswoman, i would i would say in this effort that this is something that hhs is equipped to do when it comes more so than we are. But im talking about the actual apprehension. When we of a child instead of being returned to their parent in the United States is instead treated as an unaccompanied minor, again, i have documentation of at least 20 children who have been apprehended in this way with parents in the United States, apprehended in the interior, not returned to their parents, not able to make a phone call. When we apprehend them if they are unaccompanied i need to transfer them over to hhs. And if i may, they are better equipped. This is not something that the Border Patrol, just like as a Police Officer when i was a Police Officer, we would bring in Child Protective Services to deal with that. Im sorry, but your policy your policy, chief, and cbp states unaccompanied kids, quote, must be offered use of a telephone. Ive been informed of instances where children were not permitted to call their parents until they reached orr custody days after apprehension. This young man who was finally returned to his mother last sunday had been in the United States since he was nine years old, his mother was two hours away from him and he was left in your facility for five days with no ability to make a phone call. If they have not been had the ability to make a phone call, congresswoman, i would definitely say that is something that we need to investigate. Your policy has not changed. That is still the policy that they are to be able to make a phone call. We allow them to make phone calls. So how are you going to ensure that this policy is followed and will you look into comprehensively whether or not there are children in your dusty being defined as unaccompanied minors who are not being granted the opportunity to make a call. I will take make your allegations and speak to the office of responsibility who does those investigations. Id like to ask you a question about the culture of cruelty that appears to exist in your agency. In an email to a supervisor there was a widely reported incident that occurred at the el paso processing center, an agent instructed the man to walk with a sign in front of a group of other migrants to humiliate him. The agent who reported the incident recounted several colleagues laughed while this was occurring. This is a dis gusting account on so many levels, it is cruel, dee human nicing and homophobic. There is other examples of cruel and Inhumane Treatment that i asked the secretary about. I asked if he would do a comprehensive investigation as to these allegations and to how cbp officers are treating my grants. The accusations of kicking children awake in the middle of the night while they are asleep. He wouldnt make that commitment except on individual cases. Will you make the commitment here and now to do a comprehensive investigation about the cruel acts that many of your cbp officers as well as they might be taking care of others, im not saying they are all bad, but there are widespread reports that demand a comprehensive investigation. Will you commit to that . I can tell you that is not the job of my Border Patrol officers. That is the job of the office of professional i can tell you that is being investigated. Comprehensively or individually. I cant speak for all of the investigations that the office of professional responsibility currently has going, but i can tell you that i do know that that case is under investigation. So the only then i will conclude, madam chair. Thank you for your indulgence. You like the secretary are only aware of and only willing to commit to individual investigations of specific allegations rather than the because if it were me and i had widespread accusations of my officers, people in my under my super vision being accused of cruelty, i would want to get to the bottom of it, not case by case, but where the breakdown is and how thats being allowed on the border. Maam, this is something that we work closely with the office of dhs, office of Inspector General, which that is their job as well as the office of professional responsibility. Madam chair, unfortunately there appears to be a culture of cruelty that goes all the way to the top in the department of Homeland Security. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, chief, for being here and i wanted to just go a little further than my colleague about the subculture discussions because i think this speaks not only to leadership but this speaks to how we treat folks and the standards that we employ. Are you familiar with the term tonk . I have heard that term before. And in what context have you heard that term . It is a highly inappropriate term that we do not tolerate in the Border Patrol that was a term from my experience from many, many years ago. Have you heard that term from officers in the field . That is not a term that i have heard as of late. When i was a young agent, yes. Have you seen it recently in emails or texts or heard it outside of your term as an agent . I was just made aware of an investigation that is ongoing into, i believe, a tshirt that was made with Something Like that. I have not seen it. A tshirt that was made by an agent . I dont know whether or not it was made by an agent. Last week secretary mcaleenan testified before the House Committee on judiciary that he doesnt think that the cbp has a culture of dehuman nicing migrants. Dont you feel that at least that term tonk is dehuman nicing. I do agree what that term is dee human nicing. Do you believe its appropriate for cbp officers or any agents to share personal and identifyi hadentifiable informa migrants. No it is not. We have to protect the privacy of those in our custody and in our care. I assume youve answered this in the context that office of professional responsibility is going to be looking at and continues to look at those. Would they also look at individuals who may have online mocked the death of Child Migrants as well . Most definitely. And there is a case that i am aware of based on the Facebook Information that is being investigated right now. Back to the facebook. You said you joined i might have i might have heard you wrong. When you were giving the statistics at the beginning you said june of 2018 to june of 2019 you visited the group or as it was told to you by opr four times you opened up facebook or four times you visited the group . Facebook. And four times you visited facebook. Facebook four different days that i was on facebook in 2019. It was nine times in a year from june through june of nine days, i should be specific, nine days that i logged on. Nine days that you logged on. That was just to facebook. In the 12 months on facebook. Yes. In the 12 months. Yes, sir. And logging on can be done through your mobile device or through a desktop or did i use an ipad, a personal ipad. Okay. So four times this calendar year, nine times the prior 12 years torn 12 months. Sorry. 12 months. Nine days, four days. The reason i say days, the one day i believe i was on twice in one day, for instance. Which would be common for a user on that platform. You said you joined this group in 2017 at the request at the request of a colleague. So from that time in 2017 to june of 2018 was there any data that opr had given for your facebook use and or your visiting because i understand you commented on a post within that group as well. I commented on a post within, i believe, what was the 1015 times 2 group, but if i may explain, when i log on the reason i commented on that is because my agents were talking about me and i will go in and i search posts. I did not even know at the time what group i was on or whether i was on a group. I did a search for myself and because people were talking about the fact that i had been on a jeopardy question. So i searched myself and that came up. I did not know at the time what group that was on until the posting came out. I dont go into facebook and go into groups. I go into facebook and i either talk to my friends in my group or i do, quite often, and that was revealed in the information that the office of professional responsibility looked at, i do search myself quite often. So you would go into facebook, you would hit the icon to search, you would type in your name. Yes. On that search piece and then it would then populate within posts that i would search through posts that would potentially have my name in it. The way those sites work it would generally put to the top of the list those that had connections to you. Yes. Individuals who are friends or groups that you had joined. Correct. Those would then show up at the top. Correct. Thats when you noticed that, thats when you saw that and a then you replied to that post because you had searched yourself and they were talking about you. Yes, sir. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, madam chairman. Like many members of congress i have felt some obligation to travel to the border to see these conditions for myself and i must say your agents were accommodating in helping us do that in mcallen and brownsville two weeks ago. I went to laredo a year ago. The striking thing this year is how much worse things are. How much worse things are. And its partly the influx of so many people, but its also a failure to provide for these very basic accommodations and failure of policy to get people through the process in a fair and orderly way. 40 men packed in a cell for six people. Vice president pence tried to put a positive face on that, but the press was right there, they saw for themselves. And then in the Ursula Center for the families and unaccompanied children, people who hadnt had a change of clothes or a shower for days and so on. We spoke to a lot of people who have been stranded in Processing Centers for days, even weeks when the standard is supposed to be 72 hours. One thing we need to get at is to what extent is this all this these conditions and the situation we find, to what extent is this a failure in policy . I must say the most irrational policy of all has to be President Trump cutting off the very aid to the triangle countries that has been directed to stemming this flow by improving conditions and dealing with conditions in those home countries. How in the world can that even be contemplated. But then closer to home, what about the accommodations that we provide, what about the process for processing and dealing with cases. I want to and then, of course, there is the a specific set of problems dealing with medical care and the kind of medical needs that these people who are being held have. I want to ask you one question about the 72hour standard and then i want to move to the medical issue, but i know 72 hours is not an absolute requirement, but its a goal that im sure you embrace. How long on average are tenderaged children being kept in Border Patrol facilities in particular and in general . Can you address the 72hour standard which i think given the state of these facilities we can all agree is highly desirable to move people through as quickly as possible and what its going to take to come anywhere near to meeting that standard. And if you want to comment on different subsets of populations as to the situation youre facing. Certainly, congressman. First and foremost when it comes to processing, we do prioritize the processing of unaccompanied Children First and then of family units and then single adults. When we were at our height when i mentioned earlier that we had a time with 19,000 people in our custody, hhs was unable at that time to take people out of our custody within the 72 hours. I can tell you since you all have funded hhs that number, as i stated earlier, has dropped dramatically, along with that our time in custody has dropped. When it comes to unaccompanied children in our custody and care, they are currently obviously it changes at different times, but somewhat in the one to twoday time frame and are being turned over to health and Human Services right now. Thats the current state we are in. That was not the state we were in when we had 2,700 children in our custody, but i needed hhs to be able to take them out of my custody, and i do agree, i want all of these individuals out of my custody as quickly as possible. Family units, as soon as we can process them and release them we are doing that. We are working with local nongovernmental organizations and doing our best to release them to those individuals and that is more like a two to threeday time frame. The problem i have right now is single adults because i have to wait for i. C. E. To have the bed space. Those individuals, i dont have the exact time, but they are being held in our custody far too long. Those are the people in the cages shouting out, ive been here 40 days . Well, and once again i believe mr. Cuellar stated earlier the reason we have to be able to separate different groups and we need to be able to see those individuals, thus the use in some of our facilities like in Rio Grande Valley with the central processing center, we want to be able to have eyes on to ensure nothing is happening to these individuals. But, yes, it is mostly single adults now that we are having issues with when it comes to going beyond the 72hour realm. Well, i know my time has expired so i will wait until the next round on the medical issue, but coming into that ursula facility, put on masks, you know, duly warned that theres a lot of a lot of contagion here. So i do have some questions that stem from that experience and those observations. Thank you, madam chair. Ms. Meng. Thank you, madam chairwoman. Thank you, chief provost for being here. I wanted to ask about an issue interior enforcement. You stated in your testimony that your workforce is extremely strained due to the crisis at the southern border, however strained your workforce is, Border Patrol is still they are still conducting interior enforcement. New york farmers specifically have had issues with workers being picked up and detained by agents and there have been numerous interior Enforcement Actions across the state of new york that have impacted farmers and farmworkers. According to the new York State Department of labor, there are between 40,000 to 80,000 individuals employed on farms in a given year, including domestic, guest workers, migrant and seasonal labor. A high proportion of the new york agriculture workforce are vulnerable to Immigration Enforcement which leaves farms in new york state vulnerable to leaving their workforce. Given its close proximity to an international border, new york state has a significant Border Patrol presence which enables cbp agents to question detain and search individuals. What type of criteria does Border Patrol use when it decides to question these individuals . If i may, and im just wanting to clarify for my own, you are talking because when you are speaking about interior enforcement, that is generally i. C. E. I. C. E. , ero or Homeland Security investigations. That is not something that the Border Patrol generally does. Now, we do have traffic check points that come in as a secondary support system that we are doing, and im just trying to clarify for my own edification, and i apologize, but are you potentially speaking to enforcement efforts by i. C. E. And hsi . So theres no enforcement by cbp agents in or near farms in new york state . We do some roving patrol. This may be may be something that i need to followup with you on so that i can understand better. I apologize. We do some roving patrol and we do have check points, but generally when were talking about interior Enforcement Actions that is the job of i. C. E. And im not sure, maybe thats something that i need to come sit down and speak with you about more indepth. Sure. We have just had a lot of stories about from our farms and farmers about workers being picked up and so if you could get back to us. I will take that back and see whether or not that is something that we are doing and i will get back back with you. I apologize. It may be i. C. E. That we are talking about here and in that case i dont have that information. Okay. Specifically i want to know what role cbp plays and what criteria is used if its all right i would like to take that back and i will get you an answer on that. Of course. Thank you. Another question i have, a story about a colleague of ours at the Ursula Detention Center who encountered a 13yearold u. S. Citizen at the Ursula Detention Center where children are also held in cages. I wanted to get more background about this incident. Why was this u. S. Citizen child held in a cage . Is this Standard Practice . How often does it happen . What is the protocol . So not knowing the exact case that you are talking to and if you send me that information i am more than happy to follow up on that exact case. There are instances, though, where in particular children, u. S. Citizen children, do come into our care and custody, for instance, if they are traveling and have maybe crossed the border with a parent who is an illegal alien. So that does happen at times and we try to keep them together and the parent can make a call on what happens. Im not sure the specific case that you are speaking to, if you have a time frame that would help me, but i am certainly more than happy to look into any specific instances. Sure. This specific incident was reported in an article in the National Paper usa today, it was our colleague congresswoman annette baragon who had been on a congressional tour at the southern border, specifically at Ursula Detention Center. Do you know how many u. S. Citizen children are in Border Patrol custody and how long are they detained for . Those are few and far between and i do believe that in that instance that this was a child with an illegal alien mother who the mother and the child were released on their own recognizance. I will confirm that that is the case. Those instances are few and far between. I dont have an exact number for you, but it does happen from time to time. If you could get back to us as well, i would love to know how many u. S. Citizen at any given time including currently are in Border Patrol custody and the average time that they are detained and the process that they must go through to get released. And once again, if they are in with a parent, we are going to work through processing the parent accordingly and then work to if its a family unit in particular to release them as soon as possible. But im more than happy to follow up on that with you. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Ruppersberger. I have two areas i want to talk to you about. Within a month or so i visited the border and quite frankly i was really surprised and shocked on what i saw. I know one of the Border Patrol agents made a comment to me, though, you know, if you are a Police Officer in the United States and you arrest somebody, you see them in court. We have these issues now, we have to detain these people and re really arent in the detaining business and thats caused a lot of issues. Now, you are dealing what ive seen with an unprecedented volume of immigrants and, you know, you need more resources. There is no question. We just passed a bill which provides 4. 5 billion to alleviate the humanitarian crisis on the border. We didnt get everything we wanted in it but we got a lot and thats a great start, but its not the end. With he into he had to fix the overcrowding, we need to hire hundreds of more judges. Thats a major issue, so we can move the people in the United States or out and they have a status. We need to provide more aid to the northern triangle countries. A lot that you have to deal with, but we need to make sure we deal with the problems, these are why people are leaving and as long as they feel threatened and theres corruption in these areas were going to keep having a lot of the problems. We need to bring in more doctors to screen detainees, very important issue, especially with the Young Children and kids, but everybody who needs a doctor. We need to abide by International Law and allow people to seek asylum. Thats a big issue and we have to do that. These people are running for their lives and overall we need to restructure our whole immigration system. In the short term there are thirdparty organizations such as the red cross that are willing to roll up their sleeves and help at at no expense to the american taxpayer. I keep hearing about the flu and lies outbreaks, this is concerning and preventable. Im aware that these volunteers will need to be toughly screened before performing assistance. To that end are you willing to open up your doors to these humanitarian organizations and if so how can Congress Help . This could help some of the issues were dealing with, especially with a group like the red cross. So, sir, i dont want to speak out of line. I will tell you that people what comes out. We are working very, very closely with medical professionals and by the way thank you for the funding because that is supporting having more medical professionals in our facility. We have expanded to over 200 medical professionals in our facilities across the board. I cant speak to the legalities on the red cross. I do know that we are working with fema within the department as well and looking at all different kinds of possibilities. I agree that we need the medical assistance in our facilities. I just cant speak to what we can or cannot do. It is certainly something that i will take back and see whether or not thats something thats feasible. We need to make it a priority. Another thing i learned, too, we talk about immigration issue its very political its unfortunate because a lot of countries make in immigrants. You look at our list re we all somehow other than probably the American Indians came from some other countries. What i see and ive spent years in Law Enforcement as a prosecutor and what i see right now the cartels are in control of a lot of the things that are going on. Not only from a drug point of view, but also from shaking down these immigrants, these people that are coming trying to find a way thats better for their families. Thats a priority that we dont talk about anymore in this country, our media doesnt talk about, but thats a big problem about whats happening and the volume we need to deal with. The other thing i want to talk about, talk about our chairwoman, other people have brought it up and thats about the 1015 private facebook group. There are a lot of good agents out there, a lot of bad people a few bad people make it look bad for an entire agency. It happens in congress, it happens in a lot of organizations. Now, this group has about 9,500 members, strong, are posting racist, misogynistic comments and making jokes about detainees dying in their ive worked with Law Enforcement for decades and never in my life have i ever seen such a lack of professionalism and disregard for human suffering. This is human suffering. While i dont believe that most of your agents share those views and i tell you this, i served on the Intelligence Committee for 12 years and i served with Sylvester Reyes who was a member of the Border Patrol. He told stories and i learned to respect your agency because of what he told me about the Border Patrol and how tough it is between the borders and there is a certain camaraderie that is there, but a few people are really hurting your agency right now and a lot of people just like i. C. E. , a lot of good people in i. C. E. , the same way, a few bad people and certain policies by our administration unfortunately are really causing problems with your agencies and the respect. We have to turn it around. So my question is what are you doing to restore the credibility and reputation of your agency as it relates you talked a little bit about the 1015 group, but generally you have a long way to go now to rebuild your reputation to the average person in this country. So thank you for the question and as i stated earlier, you are exactly right, those individuals are not representative of my men and women as a whole. That is why we have taken steps, the office of professional responsibility is all in on this investigation, meaning putting a large sum of resources into it, and as i stated before, we will hold those accountable who have done that. In my statement to the workforce i made mention of and i will continue to make mention of as i am reaching out to the workforce as we are spreading training that this all this does is harm our reputation. That being said, i would love to see more from the media and others reporting on the Amazing Things that my men and women are doing because i do spend every week im making calls to the field on rescues, agents who are putting their lives on the line as you have stated. Thats not making it into the public eye. Thats not making it into the media and we are putting that information out. And i would love to see that be out so that the public can see when were talking about over 4,000 rescues this year, when we are talking about agents who have pulled children out of a river in the del rio area where actually the river is extremely dangerous and the smugglers do put children in inner tubes that are made for a Swimming Pool and push them out into the river and put women in those situations. I agree that we have to deal with those few those few bad apples, this is a priority for us as an organization, it is a priority not only for me, also for the secretary as i know he has spoken to as well. My time is up but i think that the stories that you hear, the bad stories which have to be put out there, you need to tell the food stories about saving peoples lives also. Thank you. Yield back. Just a very quick followup with regards to congresswoman wassermanschultzs question regarding the incidents in the yuma sector about abuse of unaccompanied children while in your custody, the information was gotten by caseworkers from orr when the children went to orr. When there are those kinds of allegations by these children, does orr then give Border Patrol that information . We did not receive that information until the investigation came out. It went to oig and i do know that the office of Inspector General is investigating that, but that is certainly information that i would love to have so that we can address any of these concerns up front now. Whether they are giving it directly to oig and or to the office of professional responsibility, that is something they should be doing as well. You know nothing prevents them at this point from doing it . Not that i am aware of. Those are generally the entities that they are going to give it to, but we certainly want them giving those types of allegations to either oig, dhs, oig or cbp office of professional responsibility. We will make sure that that happens. Thank you. One of the things that i find very concerning is that despite the guidance exempting vulnerable populations from placement in the Migrant Protection Protocols Program we have been made aware that pregnant women and lgbt migrants have indeed been sent back to wait in mexico. Since your agents apparently are not consistently following the cries i cant that you have given, what is being done to ensure that the agents do not return vulnerable individuals and what oversight mechanisms do you have in place to ensure that outcome . My understanding is that they are given sort of general guidance and that theres nothing in writing. They are given guidance and, of course, there is supervisory oversight when it comes to individuals that we are returning through the migrant protection protocol program. We also work i want to be clear, we also work very closely with the government of mexico and we are not just turning people back across the border, we are turning them over to them, they are working with nongovernmental organizations and shelters in their areas for placement for them. The standards when it comes to the mpp Program Speak to obviously anybody that we have over 96 hours in our custody or has entered more than 96 hours prior is not eligible for it, as well as individuals who, of course, are mexican nationals and those who express a fear of mexico are going to be sent to uscis for a credible fear. Excuse me for interrupting, but i guess what im trying to find out is what is the weakness in the system that has made it that has allowed in these cases for vulnerable populations to, in fact, be returned to mexico . So we follow, you know, the standards of the mpp. No unaccompanied alien children are sent back, citizens and nationals of mexico, aliens processed for expedited removal but we have examples that that is it is n fact, happening. What im trying to ask you is can you look into what is happening and where are those weaknesses that are actually resulting in these vulnerable populations being returned. So we have, you know if they have circumstances where they have medical or Mental Health issues, but they are need to be how do i want to put it current medical issues, if theyve been cleared then they can go back, but it is something that im more than happy to talk to you about further and to work with you on on what your actual concerns are in it. I think because i want my other colleagues to have a chance to ask the question but id like to followup with you. I will definitely follow up. I would like to understand a little bit better your specific concerns when it comes to cases of individuals that were sending back. We will follow up. Okay. Thank you, madam chair. I want to thank my friends on both sides of the dais for a very productive hearing. Chief provost, thank you. Thank you for your thorough answers and, again, the tremendous job that you and the men and women in cbp are doing. Something that resounds i think on both sides is that our leaders in the house, in the senate, the administration, we need to come up with policies. I think the sheriff said it best. Law enforcement is put in a very difficult position. Youve got to follow the law, and you do. If the laws are not put in place so that you can do your jobs then we have some work to do and i sincerely hope that our colleagues do that in the very near future to deal with this crisis. Following up on my earlier line of questioning, how long does it take on average for a border station staff to process a, quote unquote, large group . Well, a large group, just to be clear, has varied. We count a large group as anybody over 100, a group of 100, but just this year we broke records that i certainly dont want us to be breaking with one large group of over 1,000 in one group. So obviously its going to depend upon the size of the group, but when i have days where ive got over 5,000 illegal aliens coming across the border, it is extremely time consuming to get those individuals just transported, logistically, especially if they are coming across in remote locations. Medically screened, processed, you know, through the system. It can take with an extremely large group days to get them handled. It just depends it depends upon the size of the station where they cross, it depends upon the staffing that we have on and it depends upon the size of the group. We have had over 200, 203 large groups that have crossed our border this year, thats over 100 people in each group. Last year we had 13 total, the year before i think it was just a handful. Yes, maam. Does processing already include a medical screening and medical treatment if warranted . Definitely if warranted and all children are screened now medically. Thank you. Perhaps the metrics should be adjusted so were counting how many hours to be processed and medically screened and then to start a new clock on how long it takes for i. C. E. And hhs to respond to notification for pickup. Is that possible . What story do you think would be told if we start looking at these various steps at the border as separate activities versus just in custody . Well, i can certainly tell you, congressman, that as ive stated numerous times Border Patrol is the only ones that cant say no. If migrants come across the border illegally and present themselves into my men and women we have a legal responsibility to take them into custody, then they are in our care and custody. We dont have the ability to say, im sorry, i dont have any more space. Whereas, i think as i mentioned earlier, it is critical that my partners at hhs and i. C. E. Have the funding that they need to be able to take these folks out of our care and custody and once again, i will recognize certainly the efforts of this committee when it comes to the funding that was provided to hhs that has been a tremendous help. I certainly do not want 2,700 unaccompanied children in my custody. I would never want to see that again. And it has made a big difference, but because of i. C. E. Not having the beds, that does have an impact. There are obviously numerous factors that impact the processing and getting individuals done. As soon as we have them processed i can tell you we notify either hhs or i. C. E. That we are ready for them to go. We do work hand in hand on moving those that have been in our custody the longest. Yes, maam. Again, chief provost, thank you for your testimony. Madam chair, i believe theyve called votes so im going to yield back. In fact, they have called votes. We have the option, we can do one real quick round or we can come back. I dont know what the committee would prefer. One quick round. One quick round . Yeah. Okay. Then the next cuellar. Thank you. One quick question. Again, i appreciate what your men and women do but there are some issues. I think you were down in laredo when we had this Border Patrol agent that murdered multiple individuals, i think it was a veteran. I think we had another Border Patrol agent within the same time that killed his girlfriend and baby. My question is even though you do a polygraph exam, do you do any sort of i dont know what your position is on psychological testing for those folks, number one, and then number two is in talking to the men and women at the border, they are afraid sometimes to talk when they have an issue because if they go into you know, to their supervisors and say i have a problem, whats the first thing they do, they take the gun away, so they basically are told Union Members go talk to a priest. There has to be some sort of support services because you can understand Law Enforcement, if you tell them you have an issue, they are going to take your gun away. So my question is on polygraph i mean, psychological and any sort of support. Thank you very much. Thank you, congressman. We currently do not have a psychological evaluation. We do a very extensive background check. We do polygraph and we also do how do i want to say reinvestigations every five years. That is something i would say that we should speak with office of professional responsibility in relation to on psychological exams. I can tell you that i did take one for my Police Department when i hired on. When it comes to things for the agents, concerns that they have, we have created a Peer Support Program in our own Chaplain Program to help support our men and women when they do need to talk about issues as well, but i would certainly want my men and women to be willing to go talk to their supervisors when they have an issue and, of course, if they have an allegation, they can go directly to the office of Inspector General or to the office of special counsel or to the office of professional responsibility which is any of their chain of command knowing, particularly if they have a concern with their chain of command. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, madam chair. Very quickly, i think it incredibly important that we not only help you with the symptoms of this issue that you have to deal with but we also have to address the causes and i think thats evidenced by the fact that when i see videotape of these large groups, 203, 100 plus, i think i actually saw the video of the 1,000 group coming across. They dont run from your officers, they run to your officers. The reason for that is they understand the draw that we have created, the pull as yall call it, that continues to bring them here. This body, this congress has got to address that and assist you in that way. One quick question. You moved 731 officers, also had military assistance down there. How did that go . Was it worthwhile . The dod assistance helps running mobile surveillance cameras. It will help with situational awareness. They provide air support, for individuals in our care, they have been a huge support as well. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, madam chair. Immigration lawyers that work with detained migrants told my office they heard reports of cbp pressuring teenager girls into signing documents stating theyre adults, accusing girls of lying when they have asserted they are minors. By signing a waiver, a child loses legal protections, be subject to expedited removal and transfer to i. C. E. Custody. Chief professi chief, is this a Legal Practice . No. Will you commit to investigating these accusations, and if substantiated hold officers committing these actions accountable . Definitely. Thank you very much. And i have one additional question. Abusive behavior as i indicated in my prior questioning seems to be tolerated at cbp, although i know you are disagreeing with that or following up on individual cases of abuse, but this is widespread abuse, and apparently it frequently goes unpunished. Out of 7239 agency disciplinary actions in fy 17, only 70 were removal actions. That represents less than 1 . What kind of misconduct prompts removal of an employee in your agency and why is this number so low and reports of misconduct are so commonplace . Lack of candor would be an issue, conduct unbecoming can lead to removal as well, but there are various levels. Lack of candor meaning lying . Yes. Yes. There are numerous things that could bring to light discipline. I would state also during 2017 that we did have hundreds of individuals that received suspensions. We did have demotions. We did have everything from the lower level of a counseling or written reprimand up to removal. This is something that as i stated we take seriously. There were several allegations that were unsubstantiated in the number you provided. Im sure there were some, but 7239 agency disciplinary actions, less than 1 resulted in removal. I would think that things like kicking a child awake while trying to sleep on the floor covered by tin foil would be abusive practice by an individual that doesnt belong employed as a customs and Border Patrol officer, wouldnt be exemplary of 4,000 rescuers that you have indicated youve conducted. It would definitely not be, maam, but once again, those are allegations that have to be investigated, and whether or not the allegations are true why is the number so low . When reports of cbp abuse and misconduct are commonplace . Once again, reports are allegations. It has to do with that, i believe 3800 of the number you give were unsubstantiated allegation. Once again, theyre not investigated by me, theyre investigated by office of Inspector General or office of professional responsibility, thats their job to deal with. When you say the number of 7239, 3806 were unsubstantiated claims. And there were various forms of discipline that were handed out, and it will depend on every type of situation. I would like that comprehensive overview of what the forms of discipline were by number of those remaining 4,000 cases. I will get with the labor Employee Relations group on that. Mr. Ago lar. Thank you, madam chair. The family separation policy was in effect from april to june of 2018, and reports indicate that children were separated before then. We know that families are separated before the president implemented the policy, also known as zero tolerance. You were appointed acting chief april of 2017. Did you play any role in advising agents how to carry out family separation policy . First, as i have stated, we never had a specific family separation policy in my 25 years, in my 25 years. I have had to separate families. This is not new to Border Patrol. One, we have responsibility to ensure safety of children. So there are always going to be cases as there still are today where we have to separate families. We do not take that lightly. That is something thats very difficult for any of my men and women to do. That is something that, you know, that the care of the children is of utmost concern. But this is something that has been done, i worked under four administrations, it has been done in each of those administrations, and it is of course being done in compliance with the executive order but it is something we have done throughout my career. Youre saying it was business as usual, nothing was different between april i say zero tolerance was different, it was a prosecution initiative, though not focused on family units. Sure. What role did you have in helping guide your agents on what the new prosecutorial standard was . I gave direction out to the field once zero tolerance came down the chain of command on zero tolerance as a whole when it came to prosecutions. And everyone knew it was a change in process, that was a new process coming from the top . It was a zero tolerance program, a program focused on prosecution initiatives that we have done numerous different prosecution initiatives over the years. Thank you, chief. Mr. Price. I know were running out of time as this vote, as the clock ticks on the vote, i want to return to the issue of the medical care situation at ursula where i observed this, but i hope you could provide an answer more generally, and perhaps some of this for the record. I would appreciate your immediate response, though, to how much attention you are paying to this, how critically you are regarding this situation. It looked pretty bad, frankly. I mention that we had to put on masks, then there was a warning of contagious diseases in the air. Just seeing a line of migrants, waiting to be seen by medical staff, looking at those who had been seen. We spoke with a father that was lying on supposedly a quarantine mat outside with a daughter, looked very sick to us. She was clearly ill. And that didnt look like much of an isolation situation. It wasnt clear when they were going to actually be taken to a medical facility. There are people who had been seen who were waiting to go to a local Health Care Facility or to west lake, the cbp isolation border facility and so on. It was not a good scene. It appeared to be overwhelmed. You realize there is money in this emergency humanitarian supplemental, 112 million specifically, for consumables and medical care in cbp facilities. I wonder what your assessment of the need, the priority you give this, and in particular we want to know how quickly and in what ways you can utilize the funds. Certainly. This is of course of serious concern to me, to my men and women as well. There are numerous individuals coming into our custody that are sick when they arrive. We are expanding, and thank you for funding that helped us to expand our medical contracts where we have over 200 medical professionals now working in our facilities. Were also able to buy more medical bags, cardiac monitors and other medical supplies to assist in this issue. As i have stated, we are doing right now on average, Border Patrol agents are taking 80 people to the hospital a day across the southwest border. Obviously when the medical professionals advise that anyone in our custody needs further medical attention outside of what they can provide there, we will take them to a hospital and we will stay with them throughout that time until they can be medically cleared. This is of great concern, specifically with the demographic coming across. We have nearly 300,000 children that have come across the border illegally between ports of entry this year, as we all know, thats a very vulnerable population when it comes to health risks. It is of great concern to us. Thank you for funding. We will continue to expand. I am more than happy to come back anytime and speak with you on how the funds are being utilized. Thank you. I just wanted to go back to the mpp conversation before. What are Border Patrol procedures when processing some of these individuals, specifically unaccompanied minors, and has Border Patrol returned asylum seeking minors to mexico . One of the exclusions is unaccompanied minor children cannot be part of the mpp program, so we are not returning unaccompanied children. When youre returning other Asylum Seekers to mexico, do Border Patrol agents ask if they face danger or persecution in their home country . So when it comes to them waiting in mexico for their asylum case, if they show a fear of mexico then they go back to uscis to express that fear. Otherwise, theyre waiting then in mexico for a hearing here in the u. S. And are brought back across for the hearing. So if anyone expresses that they fear danger or fear of persecution in their home country, theyre brought to uscis facilities . Are you asking specific to the mpp program . Yes. Specific to that, they would need to show fear of mexico. And if they show fear of mexico, then theyre referred to because theyre being returned and waiting in mexico for their hearing up here, so if they show a fear of mexico, theyre referred back to uscis on whether or not they have credible fear of persecution or torture, when it comes to whether or not they have a fear of their home country, then theyre going to get their day in court to express that in front of a judge. So where do they go if they dont specifically mention mexico . If theyre part of the mpp program, the 22,000 i think we have done so far, then theyre going to wait in mexico for their court date. And if they specifically say mexico, then then they go to uscis for determination of fear of going to mexico. Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Unfortunately we have run out of time. We will submit other questions for the record. I just want to say thank you for your time, for being here. I look forward to a lot of followup on many of the issues that were raised today. Certainly. And thank you for inviting me today. We have live on capitol hill for a meeting of the House Oversight and reform committee. They were scheduled to vote on a resolution holding kellyanne conway, Senior Adviser to President Trump in contempt of congress for refusing to comply with a subpoena for her testimony. We are learning this morning that vote will not happen today, amid ongoing negotiations the white house. The committee is expected to vote on issuing subpoenas for messaging records from the white house. Live coverage of the House Oversight contempt citation hearing is here on cspan 3. We expect it to start shortly
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