George h. W. Bush. And he was the only republican. He was the only republican. Who came that day. And i always thought it spoke so well of both of them. It did. It spoke well of both of them. Folks, we have to stay on the clock. One thing i learned in television, i know how to get off on time. Thank you very much. You have a great day coming up here. [ applause ]. On our next washington journal, Gretchen Morgenson joins us. Looking at some of the shortcomings of the home loan modification program, which was set up to help homeowners struggling to make their mortgage payments. Then Susan Carlson of the Minnesota Organization on fetal alcohol syndrome about a new study examining drinking and drug use among pregnant teenagers. A after that, john jackson of Conservation Force talks about endangered species and big game hunting. Plus, your phone calls, facebook, comments and tweets. Washington journal is live each morning at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. This sunday night on q a. Institute neuer policy studies fellow and antiwar activist Phyllis Bennis on u. S. Foreign policy since 9 11. The war on terrorism. Who is isis . What are their origins . Why are they so violent . All of those are important. And i address them all in the book. But i think whats more important because its something we can do something about is what is the u. S. Policy regarding isis . Why isnt it working . Can we really go to war against terrorism . Are we just doing the war wrong, or is it wrong to say there should be a war against terrorism at all . I think those are the questions that in some ways are the most important and will be the most useful. Sunday night 8 00 easterncs American History tv continues to look back at the 1965 medicare bill by going inside the white house to hear telephone conversations between president johnson and his aides as well as members of congress. This is about an hour. We begin on may 18th, 1964, with a call between president johnson and his chief aide to congress, larry obrien. There are mentions of aflcio official an debris b. Miller and Wilbur Cullen, assistant secretary in the department of health, education, and fell ware. As the recording begins larry obrien is telling lbj about his talk on medicare with house ways and the Means Committee chir will purcha wilbur mills. Mills told me by the end of the week he thought hed have something in shape to discuss with you that he could present by way of a package that might be of interest. I told him i had read some articles recently that were a little bit disturbing that would indicate nothing was happening particularly in the medicare end. And he said, well, you know better than to Pay Attention to those stories. And i said, i agree with you, wilbur, i just wanted to be reassured. And he said, you know that you cant have everything you want. He said, this bill ultimately, he said, its got to have the mills stamp on it. And i said, well, you know the president s view is whenever you want to talk to him the door is wide open, hes just anxious and happy to see you. And he said, well, you just tell him again at i told you late last week that just as soon as im ready to sit down and be able to present something to him that i can spell out that would make some sense, and would represent a package i think would be of interest that i want to get ahold of you and make an immediate appointment. Wilbur cullen reported to henry, i asked henry to get hold of him this morning, he reported there hasnt been any particular new moves in the committee, that theyre still kicking around a little bit, that mills is edging toward a first of all, toward the end of last week, he felt that on the contract basis under any Medicare Program that he wanted to have the private Insurance Companies be able to bill along with blue cross. Now the labor folks got a little wind of that. Bemueller came in to see me the other day, they had gone to see mills, told today mills decided over the weekend, he thought that over, that was a little too complex and hes kind back in the position he was in, and that is that blue cross be given a chance to handle the contract. But he certain ly in the medicae ballpark, hes feeling his way along very slowly and carefully, and hes manipulating and maneuvering but he isnt pinning anything down that cant be unwound. I think we just have to have confidence in him to be contacting us by the end of this week for this longawaited meeting, and you know, and cullen says that from everything he can discover that there is no hanky panky, they said some smfs strong medicare supporters in the committee felt a little nervous, al oman for one, a decent guy on the committee talked to me last week, he said i have a feeling somethings going to work out but i get nervous because mills wont tell us anything. Thats the way wilbur operates as you know. I talked to him as recently as, oh, must have been noontime today. I would hike to get a wrapup on the thing and down to sea on it because i notice these stories are starting to break out, you know, in Different Directions and all kinds of interpretations on what is going on in there. So far, ill have to say that the consensus is that mills is going to come out with a Social Security package that bypasses medicare. You know, thats about all ive read. Now mills of course insists that isnt what he intends to do, and he says after all its all in the final analysis, what does it contain . And he said, you and i know that my goal is to include a Medicare Program. Id sure hike to talk to him about it as soon as he gets where he can, and i sure hope that he makes no commitments until we can talk about it. He promised the no commitment end. And told me that by the end of the week, why dont i figure ill give him a ring in the morning, touching base, hello, how are you wilbur, and keep right on him. It should be by the end of this week, hes reached a point in the committee there could be an ultimate price tag on this bill of. 3 billion i would think. You know. Overall. Because they get into the increase in the cash benefits and Social Security and i think that would be a tag of 400 million, 500 million, Something Like that. Now, i had told Wilbur Cullen, hell, if hes getting into something, no one fights those things. As long as it doesnt mean hes using this a handle to get out of medicare. He said, well, hes not going to use it for that purpose but hed like to have his mark on that. I said, if youre going to do that those folks ought to be getting those checks before election. He was talking about the package, 750 a month value, he said people go make a single election at the outset and that would be irrevocable. We kicked that around for a week or so. My contention was, hell, if its a 750 package on face value, then an election to take cash, the person should get 5. They shouldnt get an equal amount in cash equal to the package. Because hell, that isnt so now its my understanding thats the road hes traveling. Hes figuring the package he has in mind is worth in the open market, say, 750. And that the election they would have at the outset, which would be irrevocable election, would mean that they chose to take 5 in cash each month rather than the medicare benefit package. And the labor follows and that would be fine with them and they feel there should be be a election, and i guess from our point of view, if a person, you know im sure we can do a hell of a good sales job on Something Like that anyway. It doesnt concern me. It did concern me that youd given 7. 50 in cash snefs package, because i think a lot of people would rather have cash in hand. But if they are they can select between a 7. 5 package and a five dollar bill, and they have to make their choice irrevocable, im sure the vast numbers of people would go with the insurance program. Thats the area hes been in, you can see hes getting right into it. Indication house and means increased the Social Security retirement payment, behind closed doors. Half the Committee Said no votes were taken. Unofficial considerable bipartisan support has been displayed for raising the Social Security pension to offset the increase in living costs since 1959. This means the increase is 6 in the retirement rates would run up to 125 a month for a man retiring 65. Such raise would require an increase in payroll taxes perhaps by. 05 each on an employee. I tell them if theyre getting where thats getting out id like to know what he had in mind. That does fit in theyre asking me questions and i dont know what the hell youre doing, a democratic president ought to know what a democratic chairman is doing, tell him that. I will. From may 18th, 1964, lbj and his chief congressional aide larry obrien. The two have another call about medicare on june 22nd, 1964. Youll hear references to health, education, and welfare secretary anthony selllabrees and assistant contrary wilbur cohen. Mr. Obrien is talking about wilbur mills, chair of the house ways and Means Committee, which is considering the medicare legislation. Hi, mr. President. The wilbur mills situation is deteriorated. I had selllabrees and cullen here, mills killed a couple of hours in committee this morning but there was no action. He talked to cullen following that and feels that he cant put this thing together. That hes suggesting why not vote out a Social Security bill in the morning. Hes going to have the final markup. And with an increase in benefits that he wouldnt ask for any vote on mills and put that over the next year. And that he can either vote medicare, which wed lose, or perhaps he could skip that vote entirely, and why didnt we try to do something over in the senate side with the Social Security bill when it went over there to attach medicare to it, and at that point conceivably something could happen in conference and what have you. Now, i asked them just what they both felt, that short of a conversation between you and mills there wasnt anything that could happen except to lose this thing totally, that the best of what happened was they not take a formal vote. It would require that will require talking to gene keil to keep them away from demanding a formal vote. The whole thing is at a point where i think there has to be another conversation of some sort. Very frankly i dont have the handle i know im sort of just up in your lap without the answers to it. But i think that perhaps what we ought to companies suggest to mills which i can do that perhaps he could postpone tomorrow mornings meeting until wednesday. That we talk to the leadership further in the morning. That we have mills at the breakfast if you think thats a damn. Or if we arrange for a conversation in the morning with mills down here that might lead mills it could be presented to mills, wilbur youre out of steam because you dont have the votes and youre talking about watson and currently youre right, you dont have them. But what do you think about having the democratic members of the committee get together in one group and let us you and i, wilbur, put the pitch on them to come out of here with some piece of this bill . Now, we can do that or just try to avoid it and let them vote the Social Security aspect of this out and concentrate our efforts on the senate side. With mills feeling that conceivably he could be now its a reverse situation, isnt so much he would be a pulp but he would be in good shape with ama if he could convince ama something strong was going to come out of conference and therefore he would be the mediator cutting back and helping them to avoid having them have a debacle in conference. The whole thing therefore adds up to a pretty dismal situation as of this moment. I thought i should, number one, report it to you. Im sorry that i dont have specific suggestions that would be meaningful at this point on the corrective end of it. But i did want you, if you would, to advise me on what you think off this we could possibly do at this point. I guess best thing is just to let him go on Social Security in the house and see if we can add anything on in the senate. That may be the answer. If we can avoid an up over down vote on medicare in that committee, which will take some have to be awfully careful that we dont get caught in a crack by this thing, the white house i dont know. But anyway, thats one possibility. I dont know whether its worthwhile, i suppose theres nothing to be lost in a way if i could call them and say, if view of all this, wilbur, i dont think the committee should meet in the morning, wait another day, and these labor fellows around this, c. P. Miller called and left a message here apparently all hell had broken bone loose and things were falling apart in the ways and Means Committee and what were we going to do about it . That kind of message. Hes always hopeful that way. Just tell you how bad things are without any answers. But i did want to alert you to it. I am inclined at this point to ask mills if he would consider not having the Committee Meet in the morning. And to try and grab another 24 hours here in the hope that maybe lightning strikes somewhere. I dont know where it will strike. And there would have to be a miracle at this point to pull something off. If we cant find anything in 24 hours, try to work out an agreement with them during that period so that he would ensure that no vote would be taken on this, no formal vote in the committee, he would have no formal vote on current mills and go with Social Security. I dont know whether its worth getting into that involvement or whether i should just go straight and say, wilbur, how about skipping the vote in the morning . I dont know what 24 hours is going to bring us. I guess like Everything Else you play for time. I dont see much to be gained by 24 hours. You think, though, if you dont have 24 hours, that vote on medicare and the committee, you get beat, then that will be against you. Yeah, yeah. Since youre asking if he can keep them from voting or youll get your democrats to do that . Ill have to i think i could ask him and he would say, well, sure, ill be willing to cooperate with you. It will be up to you to hold off the kings and aldmans and keils and so forth which we can start working on. As i say, we have to do that anyway and take the chance people dont misinterpret it and say, people succumb to mills, in addition to that they screw around advisers of this thing to lay off. Its a little tricky. Im not throwing it into your lap, i want to advise you things are in a lousy state at the moment and i dont have an answer to a damn thing, sellabrees and cohen didnt have any answers either. Why dont i Start Talking to mills, at least open up conversation, its 5 15 tonight and we have the rest of the night until 10 00 in the morning before that committee is actually called. He on many occasions in the past has knocked off Committee Meetings a few minutes before theyre scheduled to start. He has announced in the press the vote will be taken in the morning on this medicare. Well, why dont you talk to keil or your best friends on the committee and try to avoid a vote if you can. If you cant, then ask wilbur to give you another day so you can what youre trying to do. Did he give any encouragement that you could add it on in senate . Not particularly. Hes just saying you must have the votes to add it on in the senate. Im sure that we do. Of course what the hell well, we can do it. Weve lost we cant count Teddy Kennedy will not be voting any more this year. Thats two vote you have to worry about. But i dont see daylight where mills is suggesting that he will be helpful in the conference, assuming that you tack it on in the senate and you are at conference. That mills would say, well, hell, in conference, i will play ball totally. To get a good piece of this thing accepted and then run it through the house. Thats one thing. But he said, im afraid what hes getting at is that his role at the point of conference, if we could convince or become convincing that this thing was in the process of full settlement in our way that mills moves in and on behalf of the ama, hes the guy cutting back, and hes a hero with the ama, and at the same time hes indicating of course, thats a big help to us. Its a pretty tricky operation. You know. I dont know. Anyway, why dont i not burden you further at this point. Let me get a feel of it with him. Just see what in gods name we might come up with during the evening. I just dont know at this point. President johnson and his chief aide to Congress Larry obrien on june 22nd, 1964. As our special program of lbjs calls on medicare continues, heres part of an august 1st, 1964, call with Florida Democratic senator George Smathers, a member of the Senate Finance committee which will soon start hearings on medicare. 1964 is also a president ial election year. And as this portion of the call begins, senator smathers is talking about the political implications of medicare. With mention of the republican nominee, arizona senator Barry Goldwater. Let me just say this to you if i may. This thing talk about, goldwaters against the Social Security thing. Youre for it. Now, if its held up and blocked and defeated in the senate by williams at the last minute in an effort to get out by John Williams and dirksen and a couple of fellows, why then youre off the hook. I tell you this is a lot better issue than it is in in fact. Because they find out i campaigned on this in 62, and they find out what theyre not going to get under this Social Security, and theyre not going to get free hospitalization which theyve got to pay 90 to start with every time, boy, when you tell them that, they come by, take him to the cleaners. And i really think its a hell of a lot better issue. Labors had to repeal the taft bill, an issue for years. Its a hell of a lot better issue in fact on the books. I think that we ought to keep it that way. Because i dont think that youre going to come out with it anyway. This time. And what im trying to suggest to banfield just discreetly is, why dont we just somehow blame this working around, blame the whole damn thing on the republicans for not even having Social Security increases passed. That way we you cant blame them when youve got a 21 vote. Well, i agree. Theyd say, what the hell, youve got the president then weve got to be careful and pass the Social Security and not increase it to the point where we block you block out in the future the medical care program. Ill get larry and cohen back to see. Better talk with russell long too. Russell is wild. Hes with the doctors, isnt he . Yeah, yeah. Now, but he can russell will shift, in time. But we cant just come in there and because, you know, youve asked us now just suddenly shift without destroying our own position. I think thats right, i think thats right. All right, you get ahold of that and call me back on that damn bennett and rogers and let me and ill go to work on the ambassador. You hang those on the wall. If theyve got to have a canal or whatever theyve got to have, well do it. This is one vote i cannot lose. Haddock has told every republican that if you vote against me, youre out of the republican party. I eliminate you. So hes going to get a solid vote. And ive got about 29 of these damned holy southerners like bennett and rogers and rogers from my own state. Right. Some of them have taken walks for me and some of them are going off and some of them are going to say, well, hell, i had to get him to give me this canal. And just see what theyve got to have and lets get it. But lets get those two votes. Call me back now, george. Ill do it. President johnson and Florida Democratic senator George Smathers on august 1st, 1964. As we continue our program of lbj calls on medicare which the president signed into law july 30th, 1965. On september 2nd, 1964, lbj and tennessee democratic senator albert gore senior, father of the future senator and Vice President , talk about the possible compromises for medicare and working with senate republicans, including jacob jaf advice of new york. Youll hear mentioned of atw, assistant secretary Wilbur Cullen, and myer feldman, deputy special counsel to the president. Youve got to give people an excuse now and then to do something they wont do. He must have talked 30 minutes. He wants to vote with us. But he wants us to accept, even in a modified form, this provision in the bill which he and javits and the six republicans produced, to provide an association of Insurance Companies to write policies for the specific purposes of this bill. Now, the Treasury Department has some doubts about it because it provides a tax exemption. Justice has some doubts about it because it provides exemption from added trust. But i think for the purposes of providing old age health care, improved private insurance, we could afford to do it if added with supervision as to rates and benefits if provided. Now, javits came to me yesterday afternoon and said hes going to support us. Anyway. Whether its accepted or not. But he said that he thought that Margaret Smith if we would accept this. I talked to mike about it and he said that whatever clint and i decided i talked to clint and he was not inclined to be favorable to it. I talked to wilbur coin, as you know is a technician in this field, and he says that if we want it that he can redraft it so as to meet the objections of the treasury and justice. But when i contacted wilbur last, he said someone in the white house said that you didnt want it. Im just telling you, this might be something that would be necessary under the circumstances. I hadnt heard of it. This is the first i heard of it. Not you put the white house. Who he talked to in the white house i dont know. I dont either. Ill check to see who did. And i will be guided by what you all think ought to be done. I try to see that the forces that are so vitally interested in it like labor would agree and id be inclined to follow their advice. If you get clint to go along with it i think it would be a mistake for you and clint to split by all means. Id be inclined to explore it. Its that close. And you really need the marketplace to help you. They tell me they think youve got market on our side. Do you have any feeling about that . I dont trust these accountings these days up there. Well, i think we have a minimum of two votes. But mr. President , they spend more money on lobbying than any outfit. Thats right, and were counting on two people being gone and may not be gone on a vote like this. Thats right, they may be back here. You know who those two are . Herbert walter. Walters one of them. They say that he and lester hill. Lesters always been a doctors friend. I watched him in the house. He and thomas always vote on anything prodoctor. He will here too. Anow wave got Vance Hartwick any way to get him back . They say they can get him back if his vote had to be there. I dont know whos handling that. In the old days i would have had him back, funeral or no funeral, because this is just this is the gut issue of this campaign. And goldwater has drama tised it. Oh, yeah. The only thing thats making him hay. Thats right, thats right. Drama tised it by flying across the nation. If we get licked on this its going to be bad. Its going to be awful. Clint bill do what you want to do with respect to this javits amendment. I got into leadership on this thing because clint was sick in the hospital and i thought the issue had to be pressed. When clinical came back i expected him to take over. But actually clint is not well. And he requested but i continued and present the amendment, somebody had to speak three and a half hours there while we were getting a free draft or else we were going to be read out of court. Clint wasnt able to do that and i was so i stepped in and did it. Will you assign someone to look at this javits amendment and then if i can say to clint or you can say to clint that this is okay with you, i think it will give us maybe two votes. Im not sure. What you better do if youre going to do Something Like that is let me get mike feldman on it and you and clint better seek mike feldmans advice on it or you might say im going to call mike feldman and ask what their opinion is. Because i sure dont want to get the candidate to have them say the president called up and modified it, moderated it, threw away a victory by compromise. And i could do that right quick unless the request came from clint. Because he might feel that i moderated his proposal. You follow me . Yeah. Just how do i well, i just what i would do is say to clint, you got this call, say lets find out what the opinion is. Try to see if our opinion would change in other words, what ill do then, ill just go to clints office and say, what do you think we ought to do. This . Say what you think ought to be done with it, say if you agree with me, take up the phone and call and get Wilbur Cullen and im sure the president will agree to anything we agree to. I know he has Great Respect for you, clint. I know he has feeling towards me. I know hell go along with what we suggest. You tell cullens people i like you, thats not true. Youre justified in everything i do. You get on and ill let him look at it. So if you all do call hell be prepared. Ill go right now. Dont take any chances. You be mighty, mighty careful. Could you possibly call Herbert Walker . Yeah, i could. What do i want to ask him . First let me see if hes going to be here. They tell me hes not. Well, thats right. He had never understood this issue. He happened to be in the chair when i made my speech the other day. And it just shook him to his shoe soles because he didnt realize the issue. Of course, what this the president s Program Takes care of is very poor and Tax Deduction takes care of the very rich. What this bill will do is provide Prepaid Health care for the great body of our selfsupporting, selfrespecting, proud people who want to remain so even after theyre 65. Well, anyway, ill do that. What does he he is against it . Is he committed to doctors . Im afraid he is. But hes happy to be away. Well. If i find out hes not going to be away, a call from you might encourage him to go ahead to new york. Okay. President johnson and tennessee democratic senator albert gore senior talking about medicare on october 2nd, 1964. Later that day lbj urges another democratic senator to support medicare. In this portion of a call with Senate AppropriationsCommittee Chair particularly hayden of arizona. As the call begins lbj mentioned president ial rival and Arizona Republican senator Barry Goldwater. I see goldwaters flying back. He says its going to be a mighty close vote. Is that vote going to be close today . Well on medicare. I see on the Morning Television he says hes flying back from arizona. To vote on it. Yeah, yeah. Dont you let him beat us, karl. Well, dammit, i voted against that before as i remember you waited for us to see if we had to have you. Yes. Wont you do that today . Well, i might. Do that now because we cant lose this one. This is one we cant lose. We got to have these old people and theyre just thick as thieves all over the country and thats the most the polls show thats the most population we got. Well you agree to do what you did last time, wait and see. If we dont need you, well do what we have to. Your vote dont let the republicans win over me. I hate like hell to have that happen, on the other hand i hate like hell to have it move that, way. Wait like you did before, wait and see. If we dont have to have you we dont, and well hope we dont. Okay, well see. President Lyndon Johnson and Senate AppropriationsCommittee Chairman and arizona democrat karl hayden talking about medicare legislation on september 2nd, 1964. Lay later that day, the senate comes up with a tie vote on medicare. In this call lbj and white House Counsel myer feldman consider how to break that tie. Youll hear mentions of Democratic Senators edward 10dy, edward jordan, mike monrony. We have a tie vote on the medicare amendment so we have to get either jordan or monrony to give us a life doctor with Teddy Kennedy. Luther rogs called jordan, jordan is uncertain. He wont give us a commitment. The suggestion is that perhaps if you called either monroeny or jordan this would convince them to give the live pair we need to carry this. I dont want to do it unless i have to and he just told me he was all right. Ive just talked to mike ill talk to hubert. President johnson and his white House Counsel myer feldman on how to deal with a tie vote on medicare in the senate in a call on september 22nd, 1964. Later that day, the Senate Approves the medicare amendment to Social Security by a vote of 4944. September 3rd, lbj talking about the next steps for the measure. Youll hear mentions of House Speaker john mccormack, majority leader karl albert, majority whip hale bach. Also house ways and Means Committee children wilbur mills. Hello. Larry. Yes, mr. President. Mccormack and albert called me. But by the time i returned the call they said that mills and hallic were willing. And that they called me later. Now, what they want to do is they say that if it goes to conference it will never come out of conference. Mccormack says. They can get a vote to instruct the conferees to accept the senate amendment. They doubt mills said hes got 250 people against that. Yeah. I would hope that hes wrong and i dont believe when the rolls called on medicare that many would stand up and be opposed to it for all time to come on that record. Yeah. But that would be one vote. The other one would be is the motion to refuse to instruct the conferees. Yeah. Theyre going to decide what to do. My guess would be vote up or down. If weve got the votes, which i would doubt, instruct them the senate, let the house defeat it. Yeah, well, now i talked to hale boggs earlier today on this. First of all, we had the labor people in this morning. We cranked up the Senior Citizens and all that sort of stuff yesterday. Now, putting it hard on the labor people tries to they want to take the senate bill, they want to do all these things. Then you say, only, how many votes do you have, how many republicans . You people are supposed to be able to handle republicans, do you have 40 republicans . They dont have 40 republicans, they cant count 20 republicans. We all agree we probably have 165 democrats. Now, i got a hold of boggs and and i said, what are you doing, youre going to be one of the conferees on this damn thing. There are only two votes in the conference for us. You and cecil king. And just what do you have in mind, christs sakes, is this a bill that winds up with goldwater and mills opposed is this administration . Or are you going to i know that you dont have any troops or my god, you could certainly make an interesting conference out of it. Now mills, i talked to him yesterday, talked to him again this morning. What the hell . We realized that we cant get the senate bill adopted in that goddamn house. If they come pack for instructions well get licked on that too. The only judgment i can make at this point is that mills will certainly try every device he can to get an agreement on a conference that would include king, reluctant as they might be because hed hate like hell to be on the house side of a conference where he and two republicans vote against two democrats to come out with a conference report. And geez, he starts ill speak some business right now. You talk to ill talk to you as soon as i get out of these independent businessmen. My thought would be that if we could get mills to agree that we would take it in confidence that would be fine. If not i would try to instruct the conferees. No, at the moment i share that view. But i do think this, that with the stories around the country today, weve got something going on this damn thing. And god almighty, i hate to see that leadership join with mills as some kind of a wrapup that screws us quickly. Well, i dont think they will until we decide it. All right. Decide what screws us. Yeah. If it screws us to i believe in the Senate Conference well never get it out with the votes, we dont have them. We dont have the votes in conference. What would screw us and what wouldnt . If we cant do any good in conference to vote her up or down, is that it . We can vote up or down but i do think we can spotlight the country on this thing. You know. Giving us a little time. This damn congress will be ending the week of the 15th anyway. My view is that this thing can get really heated up. And i my view of the thing is that well, lets say i know youre tied up now. If its all right with you, why dont i get back to you and well talk about it further later this afternoon. From september 3rd, 1964, president johnson and his chief aide to congress, larry obrien, in this special program of lbjs calls about medicare which he signed into law july 30th, 1965. On september 14th, 1964, larry obrien tells lbj about his conversation with house leaders on the next step for medicare. Hi, mr. President. Hale boggs and karl albert called me a little while ago. And they came to the conclusion on their own that the best thing to do on this medicare bill would be to go to conference without instructions. They wanted to get our view on it here. I told them that i was not going to disturb you with it, that you had discussed the matter with me and you had left it up to me to do what we all thought best, and therefore that i could say to them that their argument made some sense and sounded reasonable, if they could get mills to comment in the colloquy at some point, that he of course would seriously consider the medicare provision in conference. That they should then withdraw any attempt to have any kind of floor action on it. And they were going to contact mccormack and they felt he shared their view. They asked me about labor. I told them that i knew labor shared their view because bemueller had called me to tell me exactly the same thing. In turn i called bemuler and told him i thought he had to carry out his responsibilities, should talk to the three leaders and should talk to cease sell king and tell them what the view of labor was. And then the other aspect of it was that lets see. Oh, yeah. That in talking to mills the other day, mills said, well, i cant see any point in you fellows Going Forward and the speaker wants to do it but having a vote on this thing on the previous question. I said, i think the point perhaps, wilbur, is that there are many republicans that would be positioned finally on medicare that up to now have not taken a position in most instances, they are in contested districts. He said, how many of them will there be . I said, i suppose in the vicinity of 30 or so but i imagine thats what the speaker has in mind. The speak they are morning talked to jim trimble, i dont know what transpired in the conversation, but the whole idea was the speaker had in his mind that he could ultimately convince trimble to hold a ruling tomorrow with instructions. He went out of his office wait just a second, ive got another phone. Hello. Yeah, so i wont pursue this. I know youre busy. I want to fill you in that the way it stands is the leadership came to this conclusion, they feel that theres some merit in putting the pressure on mills as best they could, so that the getting firm agreement as discussed in depth in the conference, then labor is notifying the leadership directly that they share the view and the leadership asks me what the White House Position was and i said i would take it on my own because i didnt i wasnt in the position to consult with you further at this point. I didnt feel that there was any need of having a big discussion involving you directly. That why didnt they just leave it, that they had talked to me and i am telling them on my own, whether im right or wrong, im taking the responsibility to agree with them and they can and their conversation with cecil king say they talked with me and i agreed with the relationship. Okay. Okay, mr. President. President johnson and his chief aide to congress, larry obrien, talking about medicare on september 14th, 1964. On september 24th, as a Conference Committee works to resolve the differences between the senate and house versions of the bill, lbj gets a call from conferee and louisiana democratic senator russell long. Hes also a member of the Senate Finance committee which earlier worked on medicare. And youll hear mentions of Committee Chair harry byrd and Committee Democratic members albert gore senior and clinton anderson. Russell . I had a minute but i had some folks out of here. I want to find out they told me you broke up this afternoon, did you make any progress . Mr. President , god, i dont like the way things are going. I thought with wilbur mills talked to us a couple of days as though hes going to do something, that that meant that hed do what hes talking about. You see . And so i was just riding on cloud nine figuring he was going to settle this medicare thing, get it out of our hair, get it behind us. But then now to date, as i talked to you, ive been out campaigning for votes. I think eve ive got a majority. When humphrey gets up to do his job. But i left that thing with anderson understanding see, i cant leave my proxy with him because herbert will say i doublecrossed him if i did that. The only thing i can do is just to be there when the vote occurs, you know. Send for him when you need me. Anyway, weve been sitting there with a proxy for me to hang on in the event that we had to do this. Now Wilbur Wilbur said something to me this morning that sounded like he wasnt planning to take anything. He said, youve got to divorce it completely from Social Security, otherwise it cant be considered. Then he brings up i wish youd talked to clinton anderson, anderson is very upset about the way things are going right now. So i figure, well i guess if worse come to worst, ill go and make a missionary call. Frankly im in a hell of a spot. Harry burg wants to beat this thing. And as you know, i love the guy, im tied to him, and ive tried to be true to him and all that sort of thing. At the same time id be willing to take anything hed go for and im hanging on for it as a responsible senate conferee. But even our vote against him on the floor. I think were in trouble and i think clintons going to explain to you better than i can. Wilbur hadnt shown his hand yet but i think what were in for is hes getting ready to say, hasnt talked to us for a couple of days, but im sorry, fellows, this stuff wont work and cant be done, that being the case i suggest we go ahead and settle for the rest of the bill, talking about this medicare business next year. Now i can vote against receiving two or three times. After that im going to have to goat vote to receive. Now, you said make them vote on it. And ive approached wilbur with just that. So he said, no, im not going to do that. He said i said, i suggest you go back to disagreement and ask for instruction rfrts he said, im not going to do that. So i think how one can ever make an issue over that. What . How can i ever make an issue in the house if i cant get a vote on it . Heres my thought. My thought is he takes that back see, the house has to act first on a conference report. So he takes that conference report back. Now, i think i ought to sign it if he gets down to where he cant i think i ought to sign what we can get. Then gore and anderson should refuse to sign. Now, then when he goes back to the house, i think that the house people see, now we will the senate is going to owe both this conference report. Put them on notice, were going to oppose it. The question comes in the house on approving the conference report. And somebody should get up and pay, boggs will be a logical guy to do it, say, we think in good conscience, we think in good conscience we should have taken at least some part of what the senate had. You see . We think there should have been some kind of a Medicare Program. And we want more conference. We want to go back and confer. And im against that conference report. Of course, you recall all my frustrating efforts to get back to conference when i lost my amendment. And id say that the one time i did get back to conference, recall the time we were fighting on that thing . Yeah. We beat the conference report. So i would say that the surer you can get a vote on it, and when they bring it back up, when they bring it back to the house and bring that thing up, you can say, now, wait a minute. I think that we should have taken some part of medicare. And i think that we ought to go on record on this. And the only way i see to do it is to vote against the conference report. Thats my thought right now. Let me talk to clinical. You forget i called you so they wont get jealous. Ill talk to him later, much obliged to you, bye. President johnson and louisiana democratic senator russell long, a member of the Conference Committee on the medicare amendment to the Social Security bill. On september 24th, 1964. Later that day, lbj gets an update about the Conference Committee from the House Majority whip hale boggs. Hello, mr. President. I want to ask you what happened in Social Security. Theyre going to give it to us again . Well, im afraid so. What happened was that we were within a half breath of having the thing agreed to. And clint anderson, got bless him, not knowing what a devious guy he is, says, well, now we better check on whether or not this thing is jermaine, whether its subject to point of order. And i said, christ, thats all he needs to get off the hook. Sure enough. He comes back, and it may be subject to point of order. In the meantime ive talked with mccormack and i know we get a rule, whether its subject to point of order or not. And it ended up, i just told him, i said, well, were just going to fight the thing out, mr. Change. Mr. Chairman. The idea of you taking this course, you think its reprehensible to get a rule, i think its reprehensible for you to act the way you acted. And we ended up the way we ended was that we are going to draft something, but hes giving us all this baloney about not going to the rules committee to work on the jermaineness. And this is just a this is a way to get off to get out, thats all. I tell you this, i think if we dont take some part of medicare, by ought to batter the whole damn bill. Okay. All right. Okay, mr. President. President johnson and House Majority whip hale boggs on september 24th, 1964. Later that day, lbj gets more bad news about the medicare bill in the Conference Committee with conferee and Florida Democratic senator George Smathers. Mr. President , i find from touching the three bases who were there, actively there i talked to them. I talked to russell and hale and somebody else. Russell wasnt there today. Yeah, he like me, he was recognized logged in on this other job and i was busy raising 75,000 from florida. Which we raised. And i got that fellow that we talked about, remember just a little bit, he comes from virginia, hes coming in. Anyw anyway. You got the picture that it looks did you talk with clint . No. Im going to, though. Ive got the attorney general here with me. As soon as i finish with the meeting i was going to call him. Well, all right. Okay. You might better you talk with him yourself. I talked with him and he told me what happened. Anyway, youre going to do it. So talk with barry and i talked with wilbur coyne and everybody there had the impression that it looks worse now than it has looked. The opinion it should wind itself out. He thinks that would be the best. Now, wilbur coyne does not, necessarily. Of course, byrd, hes against any of it. So he would be trying to wind it out. The house people would like for us to pass the bill on the grounds they would forever foreclose passage of medical care because it would use up those valuable points. I have asked what is best for you . I have a feeling clint is probably right, sometimes a better issue sometimes than it is a fact. It looks like now theyre going to be able to recess, sign and die, by saturday night. Good. My friend, thank you, ill be in touch. Thanks. From september 24th, 1964, president johnson and Florida Democratic senator George Smathers. A member of the Conference Committee on medicare. Lbj would sign that bill into law on july 30th, 1965. Another Conference Committee member, tennessee democratic senator albert gore senior, talks to lbj on october 2nd, 1964. I made a statement which i hope has not been discreet and i wanted to tell you about it. I said that this, in my opinion, assures Health Care Bill next year and a good one, that this will permit you to take the issue to the people and seek a mandate, which im confident you will receive. And i want you to know that i had said that. Well, you just had no agreement . Had no agreement, thats right. There was only one change this morning. Senator byrd, who yesterday apparently changed his vote to receive. But George George was there. Russell didnt show up. But george voted his proxy. And so four of us roted to insist upon the senate position. And we have adjourned not subject to the subject to consultation by senator byrd and wilbur, if the congress should return after the election. Thats good. The sentiment to adjourn up here is quite high on both sides. I think you can take this issue to the people that we will get a Good Health Plan next year. What they were trying desperately to do is to drive through just the Social Security benefits and leave Health Care Standing bad alone. Yeah, yeah. Now well put it in the package. Thats right. Now you dont think well try to recess or you dont think we ought to try to call them back after the election . See, weve already passed it in the senate. We might not pass it in the senate anymore. If we lose moss, if we lose mcgee, we lose new york or three or four of these places, we might just not have the votes. New york would make a difference but some of the other places would. Moss would and mcgee would. Some of those. Now, weve got it passed. And im calling congress back november. But we dont have to cross that till the 15th. After the election, everybodys threw. By outgive a little salt to it and well talk later. Ill abide by your decision on that. I want your judgment. Well have to see how the election jumps out, i guess. See if we think well have trouble passing the senate again. From october 2nd, 1964, tennessee democratic senator albert gore senior telling president johnson that the Conference Committee has deadlocked on resolving differences between the house and Senate Versions of medicare. On november 6th, three days after lbj defeats Barry Goldwater in the election, the president has a call with medicare supporter and wellknown pediatrician Benjamin Spock. You might be interested, on abc yesterday we taped a my half of a halfhour event for medicare which abc is putting on on sunday afternoon. Oh, ill watch it, ill watch it. Going on to the next step. Do you remember what program its on, what they call it . Its something issues. Answers and issues. Issues and answers. Sunday afternoon. Youll be interested. First they had experts and analysts of the ama to take the other half of the program. And when he found that i was going to do the other half, he and the ama withdrew him. And they said that they didnt want the country to get the impression that the medical profession was split on this issue. Then they got abc got senator power from texas. And he called them this was to be taped yesterday afternoon. Then when tower called up abc yesterday morning and said that texas was a shambles and he couldnt come up to do it. They finally got congressman curtis. And he was doing it sometime today. Doing the taping. Well, and that is very, very interesting. Im so grateful to you for doing it. And i want to thank you again for your wonderful help in the campaign. Thanks for calling. Ill try to be worthy of your confidence. Ive got great confidence. Thank you so much. President johnson and medicare supporter and fit Benjamin Spock on november 6th, 1964. On march 23rd, 1965, the house ways and Means Committee approves a new medicare measure and we hear about that in a call from lbj to House Speaker john mccormack. Youll also hear majority leader karl albert, house ways and Means Committee chairman wilbur mills, and Health Education and welfare assistant secretary will better cullen who speaks first. I think its a great bill, mr. President. Is that right . Yes, sir, i think youve got not only everything that you wanted but we got a lot more on this thing. Its a real comprehensive bill. What how much will this cost my budget over what we estimated . Well, i think it it would be around id say 450 million more than what you estimated for the midcost of this supplementary program. What do they do under that . How is that panelled . Explain that to me again, over and above the kinganderson supplementary you stole from burns . Yes. Well, generally speaking its fits services. Physician, all right. My doctor that i go out and he pumps my stomach out to see if i got any ulcers, that physician . Thats right. Any medical services that are m. D. Services . Any m. D. Services. Now all right. How do we know what does he charge what he wants to . No, he cant quite charge what he wants to because this has been put in a separate fund. Yeah . And what the secretary of h. E. W. Have had to do is make some agreement with somebody like blue shield, lets say, and it would be their responsibility under the way the chairman has provided the bill that they would regulate the effective use of the doctor. Because what he tried to do is be sure the government wasnt regulating the fees directly. Deal with the individual doctor. And the bill provides the doctor could only charge the reasonable charges, but this intermediary, the blue shield, would have to do all the policing so that the government wouldnt have its long hand thats good. What does it do for you, the patient, on doctors . It says that you can have doctors bills paid up to what extent or how much . Any limit . The individual patient has to pay the first 50. All right. Deductible. Then hes got to pay 20 . Of everything after that. Everything after that. So that he went to the doctor, he had a 1,000 bill, hed pay the first 50. The other 950, hed have to pay 20 of that. That keeps your hypochondriacs out. That keeps the hypochondriacs out. At the same time for most of the people it would provide overwhelming proportion of their physicians costs. Yes, sir. Its something that nearly everybody could endure. They could borrow that much or their folks could get them that much to pay their part. And even if they didnt have any money now. What does it get you on hospital and nurses home under the kinganderson act . Under the kinganderson act you get the first 60 days of your hospital care with a 40 deductible. Yeah, all right. We finally compromised on 40. Thats good, thats good. Then in addition, it has the three other benefits that were in your bill. Namely, the home health services, the outpatient diagnostic. We fixed that amendment up the way, you remember the way the brothers talked to you and me about. Then the only one change was for the hole health services. That has to be after you of the hospital. Thats good. All right. Now, Insurance Companies, are they still raising hell . We, i think theyre going to go over to the senate, raise hell on the thing, because quite frankly, theres no longer any rule for the private Insurance Companies to sell insurance policies for people over 65 when you take the combination of hospital care and the physician service. Yeah, okay. Think thats wonderful. Now, remember this, nine out of things i get in trouble on is because they lay around, and tell the speaker and wilbur to please get a rule just the moment they can. They want to bring it up next week, mr. President. You just tell them not to let it lay around, do that. They want to, but they might not. Then that gets the doctors organized then they get the others organized and i damn near killed by Education Bill letting it lay around. It stinks. Its just like a dead cat on the board when a Committee Reports it, you better either bury that cat or get it some life. The speaker is saying to me, he says hes way ahead of you, mr. President , hes going to get that on the house calendar next week and get it going. Well, congratulations. Im going to talk to carl if hes there. All right. Thank withdrew. Yes, sir. Hows little john . Thats mighty good of you. Get you talk to john, all talk to owen smith and make him not let this stuff lay around so they can generation opposition to it. All right, yes, sir. March 23rd, 1965, lbj talking to House Majority leader carl albert about the approval that day of a new medicare measure by the house ways Means Committee. Next lbj talks to Committee Chairman wilbur mills. Mr. President , dont worry one minute about these doctors and Insurance Companies organizing against this bill. We have written the insurance people. I must admit. Completely out of the field of people over 65. But the ama is blowing in all direction. Ive had them in confidence come to any at the last minute telling me they would accept the payroll tax if wed use it to finance our program with the state administering it but you couldnt have that, but theyve come a long, long way. Theyre going in all directions. Now, the insurance people are going to oppose it. Theres no doubt about that. They were going to oppose hr1. They were going to oppose anything we did, but they got no more to oppose with respect to what we got in this bill and they would have voted for it, anyway, without with weve done. The only thing im concerned about, im very frank about it, is theres about 450 million in this bill out of the general funds of the treasury for which you havent budgeted your situation. Yeah, but i ill take care of that. Ill do that. You see what ive done. Wilbur, see, this will not hold for the rest of the year, but the first eight months, by constant cabinet pressure, by withholding and just threatening an ultimatum and being meaner than you or harry byrd, i am under this year the first eight months a billion under what you appropriated and what i said id spend. Now, i think that ill at least get where ill be 400 million, 500 million. Under that. Thats number one. Number two, my deficit and the budget i sent you in january, is 1 million under my deficit last year. And ive reduced the deficit 1 billion. Now, i think that we can when they a