Transcripts For CSPAN2 Todd 20240704

Wifi enabled this so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. Comcast along with these Television Companies support cspan2 as a public service. Im honored to introduce our speaker for today, todd. Both author and funeral director and his family has been involved in that profession in delaware for four generations. Toss most recent book is last rites, evolution and american funeral and topical to us today about how Abraham Lincoln was at the center of the transformation of american funeral practices both during his time in the white house and through tragic death. We will have a question and answer session at the end, a couple of more microphones. Please take advantage of those because we want our cspan audience to hear the questions answers so ill turn it over to todd. [applause] thank you, judge. Its my pleasure to present to you this evening we all know what happens with friday, 1865. What im going to talk to you about is how the grand event that was Abraham Lincolns transformed and set the stage for traditional american funeral, the funeral that americans would use for the next century and a half but in order to understand with got to backtrack about four years from the time lincoln was assassinated so we are going to go back to the day that virginia told a referendum to ratify the articles of succession. On that evening about 10 00 captain john speed led three companies from the Washington National across the bridge that separated washington d. C. From virginia and essentially established bulwark for the Union Invasion of the south. They drove it back into i the countryside about midnight the army started invading the south. Near Washington Navy yard on the ground, the lunatic asylum, the 11th new york regiment was there in three of the companies that regiment were boarding the gunboats, side field, close. Coming out of the office across the street was in in cold Marshall House and above was a 40foot flagpole upon which the sessions flagged so large it was said to be seen from the white house on a clear day with binoculars and the white house about 5 miles away so thats a big flag. He said thats why its got to come down and said nevermind he raised up to the stairs of the room. Meet the priest to death after insulting him and when the priest told authorities the sheriff rounded up a policy and went to jacksons home where he barricaded himself inside with his brother and fired upon his share fed policy and he said an assault charge is not worth my life so he was a man with a reputation for violence and when they woke himur and said Union Soldiers are on your roof taking down your flight when he grabbed his shotgun and ran for the stairs. Coming down it was like cape and gotot down and you could tear up the flag and give it to them and. He leveled it through. Missus brown didnt hesitate, as thepo Philadelphia Inquirer relator reported, we had to first happening here. The first one being ellsworth was the first Union Officer casualty of the civil war and brownell was later awarded the congressional medal of honor so he became the first recipient of the congressional medal of honor for action during the civil war. It happened at about five seconds. Word of ellsworths dead were reached quickly via telegraph office and there was a man, enterprising position from brooklyn and Thomas Holmes had a unique hillside and knew how to involve people and has come down to washington thinking the rebellion b2 and boehm people and shipped them because the only way to ship people was the adams express and would only ship human remains if they were sealed in an airtight often or were involved. Madeght coffins were ramping up wartime production and metal used to make ammunition so the manufacturers of these airtight coffins for having trouble getting material so if you could find one, itea would be very expensive so the only option was to be involved. And president lincoln, a dear friend of his and served as his bodydy guard to washington. And his parents might see him. President lincoln said i do not know what embalming is, i cannot grant this permission and is able to secure permission for the embalming of ellsworth. And it went back to the Washington Navy yard and another day. And it was laid out and ellsworth raised a regiment, new york fireman he thought these are men who rush towards fires and they will make excellent soldiers. This is a fresh in the war. The standard using Union Soldier so ellsworth was autopsied so it might be called a firehouse today, a fire apparatus. After the autopsy was complete, he got to work embalming proprietary fluid and while he was embalming ellsworth, the president ial person showed up. That was missus lincoln and this was victorian times. Ellsworth was undergoing a surgical procedure and it wouldnt be right for a woman to see him this way. They returned to the navy yard in the president s company lincoln. He says the honor guard, i would like permission to bring colonel ellsworth to the house and he goes back so they bring ellsworth to the white house where hes laid out in the east room and about 300 politicians and military officials gather for a funeral ceremony. He looks natural, he looks like hes only sleeping. Think about this, until this moment in time this would have made ellsworth rendered unreviewable. In the white house looking natural like hes only sleeping, the death of his head almost. By wars and he involved 4028 soldiers but it was this that essentially gave the green light to embalm during civil war after the ellsworth lane, many men walked to fly there embalming and make their fortune so to understand a little bit, we need to step back another decade in 1845, he wrote essentially the first embalming textbook in the mid 1830s and here on the right we have in 1845, this was essentially the undisputed embalmer in europe at the time and said i have a better way to do things so they took part in this competition e for embalming supremacy care before the medical board these two and one other each involved a body and used embalming, and used chloride it is clear in a minute and they dug them up to see what they look like and they didnt show any signs of the opposition. At this time an agent to conduct embalming to license his methodology and formula of zinc chloride in america licensed by a dentist in new york city, doctor Charles Brown so lets fastforward back into the civil war, embalming is becoming commonplace. Commonplace for those who could afford it, its estimated 6 of soldiers killed for embalm and sent home. This is doctor richard and gettysburg, holmes brotherinlaw and over here chamberlain embalming again and the calamity. He dies of a fever. This is natural and he looks like hes only sleeping so they sent for an embalmer. I had never read anything definitive on what i suspect is in the field, they would follow armies so she calls him the firm ofan brown and alexander ad thee embalming in chloride and a 23yearold man and she was laid out in the green room of the white house and then was temporarily deterred as Oak Hill Cemetery and William Carol was Supreme Court clerk at the time. President lincoln would visit the tomb often and is said to have ordered his confidence sealed so he could view the bodies. And it was similar, and 1850s version and there were two companies in the company in europe. And the raymond version because senator ward was an owner of the company. Your good buddy owns a Coffin Company and youre probably going to use that coffin. Lets move forward three years after the death of willie and we all know what happened friday 1865. So the following day when lincoln died, he was transferred to the white house under the direction of this land. Funerals of government officials and lincoln was transferred from the Peterson House to the white house in aup plain wooden coffin supplied by harvey and mark and i think it shows because of proximity. They shared the same outings so thats why they supplied the coffin and lincoln was transferred to the princesm wales and the white house. There were nine doctors in attendance so they didnt do the y incision, one of those being robert stones, a family physician in the other being surgeonep general and this was o worried they didnt have a proper procession kit. One of the surgeons offered up his own personal invitation kit. After the autopsy and used alexander once again and documented when the messenger arrived doctor brown prolific well known in ballmer, is of the office when they came in. For some reason henry, now age 26 with no medical experience was sent to the white house alone to embalm the president of the united states. Think about what you are doing at age 26 and being burdened with that momentous task. Henry used doctors formula and inject five through president lincolns artery. After which he was dressed and shaved i and left until his cofn could be made. This was done partially by design so they could double having people walking by on one and going by on both sides so double the people viewing president lincoln. This is custom built to 6foot, 6 inches to accommodate the president s 6foot 4inch frame. It is interesting is the standard length because it is the link that can accommodate 99. 8 of all americans without giving a larger casket. This cost the government to 1500 for 24500 in todays money. On tuesday the 18th, folks were admitted to the white house to view the president and the following day wednesday the 19th, there was a private ceremony held at the white house for 600 ticketholders were admitted. After that ceremony, the president s coffin was taken to the capital where it was in the rotunda. President lincoln was the second person to lie in state from the first president. Thereve been 35 people to date that laid in state in the capitol rotunda. The morning of the 21st, lincolns coffin was taken from the Capital Building and taken to the train station. The idea was essentially to have a National General where people couldta partake so that we willo the train journey back to springfield where they wanted the president. So the train is going to go 1662 miles and is 104 crossroads, stopping 11 times on the journey ending may 4 in springfield for the president s burial. His son would accompany him but never part of the funeral ceremony in any city. It stayed on the car the whole time. Tour the country during reconstruction. All right. It was hastily outfitted when. The president was assassinated. So it was draped in the so it was great in the appropriate buntings and black great of the time. But it was said to be very nice, kind of the pullman car of it today. It had a sitting room, a parler, a bedroom, and wheels that could accommodate different gauge tracks here interestingly enough, the president was rumored to have supposed to be inspecting the car on the saturday he died. So stop one was baltimore, and this is his son, robert, and robert road from washington to baltimore about a two hour ride. If this is the only lincoln Family Member to ride what was called the lake and special. Thats what they called lincolns funeral train. So he rode a grand total of two hours and that was the only time they lincoln Family Member rode the train. Robert did later meet the entourage, the funeral entourage, in springfield. And in baltimore lincolns coffin was taken e to the exchae building where he was viewed for an hour and a half. Sof this was the shortest viewg time out of any of the stops, and its estimated about 10,000 people viewed him during this time. So from there he was taken to harrisburg where the Funeral Party was met with just an absolute deluge of rain 30 was taken to the capital there with 25,000 people viewed him. And then from there the following day we stopped at lancaster. Has coffin is coffin wd lincolns predecessor james buchanan, the 15th president , was in attendance for the reception andla lancaster. Stop three in philadelphia. Now, it was reported that the train as it was coming into philadelphia almost stalled because there were so many flowers seeped onto the tracks. Now, i find that very unusual and interesting because think about how much they train ways and how many flowers it would take to stall out train. With this is one of the pieces of thel lincoln funeral that kd of changed american burial practices or american funeral practices here prior to the lincoln funeral flower offerings were made here flower offerings have been made since antiquity, but mostly it was kind of a simple bouquet picked from somebodys garden and brought to the ceremony. And the thought was of surrounding the ugliness of death with something kind of vibrant and nicelooking as a floor offering. But it also had a practical purpose of covering up or masking the elders of decomposition, which once and only involvement came into vogue, was really not needed anymore. But after the lincoln funeral we start to see these grand floral offerings. People are essentially mimicking what they saw during lincolns services and all the cities he went to. This topic here, this is his cattle fault in columbus. You can see how it is just heaped with loads of flowers and then this one is here from a stop in michigan city, indiana picked these pillars here were decorated with flowers picked from hundreds of local gardens. So we see flower displays as beingbe part of kind of this national morning, fraternities and social organizations, if the Lincoln Special stop in your village and the coffin was not offloaded it was very common for them to take floral tributes onto the train. And receive the emergence now what are called set pieces flowers arranged to look like something else, crosses, reefs were common things that were taken onto the train as tribute to these slain president. After lincolns funeral receive these get more ornate. The broken hearts drink. These all become very popular victorian floral offerings. But really theyre kind of genesis, the urgent is with the lincoln funeral. Now stop three in philadelphia, that ceremonies are officiated by an undertaker by the name of es burley. This her seat created by the vent cost 4 is 84,000, be rougy 73,000 in todays money. And lincolns remains were taken toto independence hall, the Assembly Room with a declaration of independence with side, it is coffin was laid out so his head was symbolically pointing towards the libertyville. So from 5 a. M. On Ashley Liberty bell. Until 2 a. M. On the 24th so at time of whats that, 21 hours . Approximately 150,000 people stood in line to view the president. From there the Lincoln Special s went up to jersey city where lincolns , the lincoln her scarf was put onto a ferry for crossing into new york. At the Ferry Terminal the clock was stopped at 7 22. I couldnt find a picture of a clock stopped at 7 22. This is a very common victorian superstition, and that they were afraid that the dead would not be able to pass on to where they were going. The dead should know no time, so they could pass freely into the next world so pretty much every stop, all thehe clocks in the building were stopped at the minute of his death, and also all the mirrors were great. So this was another very common victorian superstition, one that if the dead spirit saw themselves, reflected in the near, they would realize they were dead andt begin they couldnt pass on. So all the mirrors wouldve been great in all the locations that lincoln opticallys wereer held. Now, when the ferry arrived at the station it was met by the undertaker in new york. Dug the graves at the willet street methodist episcopal church, and as such he was often called upon by new yorkers to also handle theun funeral arrangements because he knew how to do things to effectively marry somebody. Peter was a carpenter by trade. So on the morning of april 21st, a committee of aldermen approached him and said, peter, president ial funeral will be held here on the 24th and we need you to build a hearse of the grandest magnitude you can think of. So thats three days, 72 hours. So peter was up to the task. He accepted, and in 72 hours he built perhaps one of the grandest persons that were used in the lincoln funeral. He employed 60 men and women. They worked around the clock for three days straight. The hearse was 14 feet long, eight feet wide and 15 feetnd tall. It was pulled by 16 gray horses, each led by a group effort that the city of new york paid 9000, or roughly i think 165,000 in todays money. This was a common theme. All these cities would make the customers to carry lincolns remains, something we were out trying to do each other. Something grander than the previous one. And typically the s coffin was t about five or six feet off the ground so it was processing through the city streets, everyone could see it. Now, the procession wound its way through the city until i got to city hall where a course of 800 people singing greeted it while lincolns coffin was taken upstairs and laid outside of the governors room in city hall. Thro come in and view the president , this man here, this is general eddie townsend. All right. He was essentially acting as Edwin Stantons proxy during this. Stanton did not come on the Lincoln Special, and he a photograph or by the name of Jeremiah Gurney to come in and photograph the president. Now this is the only known photograph that exists of the president because thats when mrs. Lincoln agreed to Edwin Stanton for the funeral train. There was a couple conditions, one no show be made of her son willie to the president , not be photographed. Well, this hit the evening new york. Stanton found out about it and he was furious. So he ordered all the prints and all the negatives of this photograph to be destroyed. This was located in 1952 by a 14 year old boy who was combing through the nicolay papers at the bollinger collection at the university of iowa. All right. This photograph came from louis stanton. So thats son gave it to john nicolay, who bundled it up in these papers. And they were eventually given to the university of iowa. So think about that. The man that ordered this destroyed couldnt bear to part with this cherished memento. So this is this is the only existing photograph that exists of president. Now in new york, the New York Herald estimated hundred and 50,000 people view the president , general john dix, who was essentially grand marshal of things while in new york city, estimated 100,000 people viewed the president. Likely that number lies somewhere in between. Next stop in albany, dr. Brown, who was accompanying the along with frank sands, they had to issue this statement because the new york press had been so, shall we say, unkind about lincolns appearance. All right. And they issued this statement to the press. But as we see lincoln moving further west, we see the press coverage of his appearance becoming more favorable until when he finally arrives in chicago. The Chicago Tribune reports no corpse in the world is better prepared, according to appearance. At the same time, the president his funeral is being held in albany. John wilkes booth is killed now. I thought this a little interesting when i was down at the National Funeral history museum. They had this book here from the secret. And i dont know if you can read this little card here, but it says this book essentially contains the carefully guarded truth that booth was not and executed as was believed by the public. Now, im not one for conspiracy theories, but Edwin Stanton did order a photographer by the name Alexander Gardner to photograph john wilkes booths remains dead. And to my knowledge, that photograph has never surfaced. So just little food for thought. Were going to jump ahead to stop seven in cleveland. This stop is notable because cleveland had the foresight to construct an Outdoor Forum for lincolns viewing all the other stops. The funerals were held in. A Capitol Building or some sort of hall where the public had to be funneled up steps down hallways and through this way, in that. And cleveland had the great idea. Hey lets have the funeral outside. We can get more people to view him so they created this chinese style and the days leading up to the president s arrival in cleveland, the newspapers, even printed. Ladies, please do not put hoops in your skirt. So they could fit more people in line. All right. They were expecting 120,000 people to view the president during the stop in cleveland. Unfortunately, again, heavy something that seemed to plague the lincoln funeral train kind of put a damper on the crowd. But 60,000 hardy, ohio fans still braved the elements to view the president. Were going to jump ahead. Stop ten in chicago here. I just want to point out, you know, its kind of hard to, you know, overstate the amount of money that these cities spent on decorating for the arrival of their slain leader. This here is an archway that the city of chicago constructed over Michigan Avenue. Its 24 feet wide, 27 feet high. I mean, these cities just spent so much money to welcome lincoln back to their city last time. You know, just kind of very its very all inspiring and humbling to see how much the nation loved him. This year is collins h. Jordan. He was the local undertaker that was tapped to conduct the obstacle while lincoln was in chicago. It propelled him into kind of he became the white shoe undertaker for chicago after this, he did later conduct, the funeral for carter harrison, the mayor of chicago that was murdered during the worlds fair. In 1887. And this is the grant hearse he constructed. I think this hearse is a little interesting because on top of it is a is a taxidermied bald eagle. Yes. You cant see it in the photograph here. So i put the drawing in it. Now in chicago. The funeral procession was led by fightin joe hooker. It comprised of 40,000 people in the procession. So it wound its way from the Michigan Avenue station to the cook county courthouse, where lincoln was laid out in the courthouse. And viewed for 26 hours. And 150,000 people viewed him in chicago. Now, after that, he was taken back to the train station. It was nighttime. It was torchlight. Okay. Which is i think is very romanesque, like because the romans would always have their funerals at night. So it wouldnt interfere with commerce. And in fact, the word funeral is from the latin word funerals, which means torch. Now, the stop after chicago was back in springfield, and this is where lincoln was going to be buried. Now, this is the surviving photograph of the springfield hearse in it was destroyed in 1887 in a fire that also claimed lives of three people and 18 horses. Now, springfield had spent all their money decorating for lincolns arrival and, ran out of money. So the mayor of saint louis generously offered to donate the hearse to. Springfield and springfield accepted. So this hearse was owned by a man by the name of jesse arnett. He owned a Delivery Service in saint louis. This was actually built close by in philadelphia, was made by famed coachbuilder billy. And it cost about 6,000 at the time. Now that hearse was reverse engineered for the 150th anniversary of lincolns death, an outfit called stop funeral home in springfield, illinois. Using that photograph i just showed you rebuilt this hearse using period correct techniques, and they have a downloadable brochure on their website. Thats why i put the url up there. So if anyones interested in finding out how they did it, i its really, really interesting. And what they came up with is just beautiful. But this is essentially what remains were conveyed in springfield. And this is also interesting because this is one of the few stops where his remains were conveyed in a hearse that was built to be a hearse, not something that was custom built for the occasion. Like so many these other cities that had a of money to throw at this were able to do. Now after lincoln was viewed one last time in his hometown, he was buried here in Oak Ridge Cemetery. Now, those of you that have. Seen the lincoln tomb, youre saying, well, whats this . Well, this is the receiving vault at oak ridge. So it was very common for cemeteries at this time to have a vault to receive coffins during the cold months when they couldnt dig. The frost was too thick, too hard for them to dig, so they would store folks in these receiving vaults until the spring thaw. So the lincoln monument, the lincoln tomb, not even having been really started or thought at the time when he was taken to oak ridge, he was placed in this receiving vault until his final tomb could be built. And the reverend David Simpson is the bishop of the methodist episcopal church, said during committal. He said such a scene as his return to you was never witness. Among the events of history. There have been great processions of mourners. There was one for the patriarch, jacob which came from egypt and the egyptians wondered at the evidence of forever reverence and filial affection far more have gazed on the face of the departed man than i have ever looked upon the face of any other departed man, more races have looked upon this procession for the 1600 miles or more by night by day, by sunlight on twilight and day. So i thought that was very, very fitting because counting it up at each stop,. 880,000 americans cast eyes on president lincoln. Thats not even counting the millions of americans that were present in those city streets as his coffin went by or that line tracks when the lincoln sped by. Now, there were vast swatches of wilderness as the train went by would usually be pitch dark. But people on the train would say it was almost like it was dawn because so many people would build these bond out near the tracks to catch a glimpse of lincolns train, his funeral train, as it went by. So they could be part something, you know, stand together in solidary and mourn as americans. Now, mr. Lincoln would not rest in peace. He would be moved 13 more times from his initial entombment in that receiving vault until he was finally buried. One last time on september 26, 1901. His coffin would be open six more times to view him and there was even a failed grave robbing 1876 when the grave robbers managed to get the lid of the marble sarcophagus off and expose his coffin. So thats why in 1901, he was buried in a steel cage ten feet deep, covered completely with concrete, to prevent any future grave robbing and. Hes buried under the floor of the Memorial Hall here. Now, rumors started to circulate at this time 1901 that holmes had done the embalming. No one knows where these rumors came from. They were circulated by the newspapers. Holmes have been dead for a year at this point, so they didnt come from him. But that is patently false. Henry cattell, age 26, embalmed. Mr. Lincoln. So very quickly to wrap up. Lets look at the effects of the lincoln tragedy and they shaped the american funeral for the next century and a half. So are the elements of the american the early american funeral and were based on the 1644 direct directory for public worship of god, which said no Funeral Services should be said and no should be held. So the colonial american funeral, the remains were washed at home, dressed by the family, awake, would be held to ensure that the person, in fact, dead. There was no embalming then and really the only way people know if somebody was dead was by the signs of decomposition. The remains were coffins. A piece of string would be taken down to your local cabinetmaker, carpenter, who would make a custom coffin for burial. There would be a procession. Bells would be told. And for the first half century, nothing said. The family would then gather for a repast. And that was the american. Now, in 1683, we see the first funeral ceremony for a man by the name of elam. He was a pastor in roxbury, massachusetts, who sits on the funeral sermons would be preached, though, at sunday. Services, not the day of the burial. So would be preached after and not necessarily sunday after. It might be a sunday or two. And then we start see Prayer Services being held, graveside so the first recorded instance of that is 1770. Wait, so he was one of the colonial magistrates . You might be familiar. He took part in the salem witch trials. Okay. So we start to see the american funeral changing. And im not saying the lincoln funeral in really invented this template, but it was to use a chemical term, the active energy the kind of spur a lot of these changes are definitely embalming came into vogue. Think of all the people. 880,000 people. That saw president lincoln and they their thought that was if its good enough for the president , its good enough for me. So we see embalming as a practice explode in america after the civil war. A flower tributes in the interest of time touched on that. So im going to kind of breeze by that. The visibility, the hearse. So think all these grand hearses i talked about that each city tried to outdo prior to the civil. Hearses were something they were almost frivolous. All right. These were people trying to scratch out an existence in this new world. And having a specialized vehicle to convey the dead was not needed because most people were burying folks their yard or in the town common somewhere. They could walk. So after the civil war, with the advent of the Rural Cemetery, so we start seeing these cemeteries are out of the city centers like Oak Ridge Cemetery where lincoln was buried was one of these rural cemeteries outside of the city limits, a very bucolic setting appealed to the victorian sense of people gone to their sleep. So lincoln being, buried in a Rural Cemetery as they were called, was an endorsement for this type of cemetery. All of a sudden americans wanted type of burial. They didnt want to be buried in these crowded moldering churchyards. You know, jammed into city centers. They wanted this rural setting for burial emphasis on the casket, coffin. So we start seeing couple of things. One being the mass production of caskets and then the advent of the casket. So no longer are local carpenters of knocking something together. Custom and then certainly lincolns grand coffin that was paraded before millions of people. All of the sudden you know, theres this emphasis in the funeral rite of, the coffin, and then later the casket. Postmortem photography has kind of like this golden age from the mid19th century until the turn of 20th century, when modern medicine and the personal camera kind of make postmortem photography go the way of the horse and buggy. But certainly lincoln being photographed, that photo being published in the paper and everyone knowing it, you know, kind of created this buzz about postmortem photography. And then the elements of wow. So this is Mary Todd Lincoln. She put on mourning dress after her was assassinated and never took it off until the day she died. Next, 17 years. So we see the victorians adopt this form of overt mourning. And it wasnt just her, it was the other families of the 650,000 soldiers that were killed during civil war. This was a time of national crisis. These men, they marched off to war. Most of them were never seen again. And so this was a time of National Mourning and the victorian people, they adopted this type of overt mourning, this display of over mourning and they held on to that until there was another national crisis. I wont even go into it. And americans cast mourning garb off just as quickly. But Mary Todd Lincoln was definitely leading the charge. And again, americans are looking to her saying, well, shes doing it. If its good enough for the first lady, its good enough for me. So thats what i have you this evening on the grand funeral of president lincoln. Thank very much for coming out, alison. Right on time. Any questions . How about if i start out by testing the mic and i do have a question for you. Thank you for this presentation. It was wonderful and and very inspiring. I have to share a before my question because feel strongly about it about 20 years, maybe 30 years ago, they made a recreation of one of the slave ships called the amistad and. They picked up a single man, man in sri lanka who took the trip and represented all the slaves that had been taken. That trip he went through the caribbean, came up and it joined our free asian ship, which is the command at christi and a river. It stayed there for a week. The weather was beautiful all week. And during that time, i got to talk to this gentleman, hes just so full of love. I mean, he was just an amazing, amazing man. And the last thing they were going to do before the ship left was to give prayers, rabbis, pastors, fathers in this small tent. During that one section, it rained and range. Not quite loud enough. Almost loud enough. And i as a sound man, i was devastated because it kind of wrecked the moment. And i came out and went to apologize to him and he was crying and hes was like, why are you crying . Its night. Im sorry. He goes, no you dont understand. In my country it rains. It means god is pleased with your work. Hmm. So i would suggest that maybe the funeral wasnt plagued by rain. It was blessed by rain. So my question is, i was curious about the flag and the flag code. So im a boy, so i follow the flag code. And it was written like 70 years later. But in it it references lincoln when they talk about the pledge of allegiance and the words under god are the and in the last of sentences of the gettysburg address and they talk about the flag being taken a half mast for 30 days for president and ten days for a Vice President. And also that the flag should lie with the stars, the Left Shoulder on a coffin. But all i saw in the pictures were just flags, the train. I was curious how else was the flag change during that funeral . You know, i honestly. I dont know. And i didnt come across any or photos of the flag on lincolns coffin. It was a prominent on the hearses. You see a lot of they would have these pillars because. A lot of them were canopied and you would see the flags wound around a lot of the pillars of the hearses that were used and draped. As you know, there was be bunting on the hearse, but i never did see anything about. A flag on the coffin or read anything about, you know, flags ordered to a half or anything like that. I just wanted to know what were stops eight and nine that use kept so in the interest of time it went cleveland column indianapolis chicago chicago. Mm. So question for you ive been to several museums in europe where ive frequently seen masks. So for a lot of historical figures after theyve been dead theyve basically had their entire cast into a mask, which was then preserved. Has that been a tradition in the u. S. . It has been in several president s have had death masks made, to my knowledge, president lincoln was not one of them. But deaths death masks never really took off in america as they did in europe. And my theory is, because americans adopted embalming a way that the europeans did not so from kind of the midninety century on, you didnt need the death mask because we could hold the remains, you know, a period of weeks for folks to come view it, you know, like they did in lincoln funeral. I mean, think about it. The people in springfield, they were viewing the president two and a half weeks after he died. And seen his real likeness, didnt need a death mask. And they were created really in europe for the the funeral ceremonies because they would be held. So and i say so far, i mean, a period of weeks after somebody died until, they could collect the members of the royal family that oftentimes what they were displaying was an effigy. It wasnt the actual decedent because nature was its course and they could not. So they would have an effigy and a death mask. That was fascinating talk well done thank you. You mentioned that lincoln you mentioned that lincoln, the second person to lie in state in the capital. You remember who the first was, was clay. Okay. Yeah. Hi. I just to first say thank you to samuels. Ive never been to the American Culture like it today. Its amazing. And i really feel honored, so. Thank you sam. I up in between two cultures. One does not allow the body to be kept more than days. And one that will keep the body for sometimes even 2 to 3 months for funeral so todays kind of like really unique to get to understand the American Culture from a funeral perspective. But i also want oh, he took care of one of my questions i wanted to say in my two when it rains, thats a blessing. I mean, god is just saying hes just shining your green light to the heaven. Thats it the last one is a question to you as. You dedicate your knowledge, your time to this work, which is really so dear to so many families. How do you see the future funeral . Weve seen the reasons cremation urns and now ashes. Crystal, how do you see the future Going Forward with funeral System Services . The one thing that has been constant in my research into, the history of the american funeral is, theres nothing constant if you look at snapshots, whether it be 50 years or 100 years, starting with first jamestown settlement, and you go back and look at these snapshots of the american funeral is constantly changing. So the one thing i can tell you is the funeral 50 years, 100 years from now wont look like the funeral today. Now, what its going to look like, i cant necessarily tell. Is cremation growing in popular. Yes. Are there new forms of disposition that are emerging engage gaining popularity like alkaline hydro delicious and Natural Organic reduction. Yes. Will those be the preferred forms of disposition in 50 years . I dont know. So we see this kind of this change in the Funeral Technology is certainly playing a bigger and bigger role in funerals. Definitely kind of spurred on by the pandemic when we had to use technology. So i see that as something thats here to stay, what its role is going to look like in the future. I know vr certain is something thats been kicked around and thats virtual reality. Funerals for, everyone, holograms is another thing i hear kicked around a lot. So maybe thatll be part of the funeral experience. And then theres also a lot of talk about virtual memorialization in the metaverse. So instead of going to a Rural Cemetery and buying headstone like people have done for several hundred years, maybe you buy land in the metaverse using an end f and you have a memorial. I dont know. So well out together. Well, thank you. Save a few questions. Where is Mary Todd Lincoln buried . Willy. Shes shes buried with all the lincolns are buried together. Yes. And why did they why did they open . His coffin, i think you said six times. Six times to ensure that it was him he was moved, too. There were so many threats of his his coffin being essentially snatched and held for ransom that. A lot of times whenever they moved him. Theyd peek in there to make sure that it was him. And suitcase zinc chloride worked. So well that when the coffin was opened for the final time in 1901, the condition of i want to say there was 17 or 18 people that viewed him that final time, along with his son, robert. He was in a remarkable state of he was in a remarkable statement preservation according to those who viewed him in 1901. [inaudible] [inaudible question] i think, i think his embalming during the civil war traumatize him. He left involvement immediately after the civilly war. He was a lithograph or for short time and enjoyed the metropolitan police where he retired from. He never talked about involving the lincoln until the rumors that Thomas Holmes had involved him service in 1901, so we finally broke his silence 37 years later in 1901 to talk about involving president lincoln. That was the first time he spoke about it publicly. Spirit we are going to have one more question i think we need to cut off. Thank you for yourtt excellet remarks. The shortness of the visitation in baltimore, was there a security concern related to that . I have not read anything but i strongly believe that it had to do with southern sympathies in baltimore and perhaps the Security Issues around their. That they wanted to keep things as short as possible. But ive never read anything definitive as to why it was only an hour and a half. This has certainly been a fascinating presentation i think everyone would agree. I know are probably other questions but we do need to cut off the evening because of the time that we had set before and some people there places to. But we certainly thank you, todd this is pretty fascinating beeng presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you. 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