Haass, the president of the council and Foreign Relations and has written a new excellent book the world a brief introduction by richard haass. Thank you for coming today. Host great to be with you. For those who may not know your background why dont we go through that and then talk a little bit about the book. So, you are a native of new york and went to college in ohio and then became a Rhodes Scholar. What did you do to become a Rhodes Scholar and for those who are not aware there are only 32 people picked every year in the United States and theoretically you are one of the top 32 so what did you do plaques disconnect my children would claim that was something administrative. I could also answer i was one of 32 people to simply peak young and at the right time. I had a rather unconventional background. Id spent a year in the middle east traveling around doing archaeology, studying languages in history. I wrote a column for the campus newspaper, i took my courses credit no entry, religion and middle Eastern Studies major. I think i probably got it because i had no expectations of getting it. I was as relaxed as anybody could be in the interview and i simply stood out from the others as a 4. 0 student. Hispanic so you went to oxford, got a phd, came back. A classic in and out of career. I worked on the hill, the pentagon, the white house, so forth and in between i had been teaching either at universities, the kind of career you could only have in the United States. Every other country pretty much forces you to choose a path. One of the great things in this country you never have to decide what you want to do when you grow up. You had a two important positions in the government that i am aware of. One is during the bush 41 administration you were in charge of the middle east among other things. And then later in the bush 42 administration under secretary of state, you were under secretary then ambassador as well. Is that right . The policy planning state plus i was the ambassador granted such things as the Northern Ireland Peace Process and after 9 11 i was put in charge for putting together the future of afghanistan. After all of that was done you then became the president of the council on Organization Im familiar with as well. Can you tell us what you do, what is the council box. Is about 100yearsold. We can celebrate. We are and organization where a Member National membership we have about 5,000 members. We are a Research Organization and have about 75 to 80 full and parttime scholars and essentially a think tank, we are a publisher and we publish Foreign Affairs magazine and we also have several websites including cfi. We are in an organization i would say to other things that are important. One, we try to cultivate a talent essentially to grow the next generation of Foreign Policy experts in the United States. We do all sorts of educational activities not just for members, but people who need to be there, religious and congregational leaders, mayors, governors, journalists scattered around the country. The whole idea is the broad participation and we are trying to be a resource for as many around the world as we can be. Historically the council of Foreign Relations was seen as a besbastion in new york as a forn policy establishment. I dont think there is a Foreign Policy establishment anymore. The country has changed demographically and i think the council has evolved. We are probably now we have a significant representation to reflect what america has become. We dont take institutional positions. We are fully independent and anything you would find in america you would find on the council of Foreign Relations. A. This is your 15th book, so normally when people with your kind of background write books they say the policy should be here, heres how great i was in this area and heres what i did, listen to me the country would be better off, those kind of books. This one is unusual because it has a brief introduction. What were you trying to accomplish with this book . Writing another insider book which is another argument. I decided to write something down heres why the world matters and heres how the world operates, heres the basic history, heres an introduction, heres how to understand the basic challenges. And the reason im doing it is the world is so important, but the gap between the objective of importance and what most people in this country and elsewhere know that it is an enormous and can come from virtually any university in this country including the elite universities to navigate the course requirements the way you want. You can be illiterate about the world when you leave the campus and watch the nightly news programs on the networks again you will not be any wiser about the world. So i a im struck again by how important it is this november we are going to choose an individual that has more power and influence over the world than anyone else and very few americans will be thinking about Foreign Policy or International Relations and very few are going to have the background to make informed judgments about the policy positions of either donald trump or joe biden. The council spent quite a bit of time to educate students about foreign policies and national matters. Is that because you think students are not getting the education they should be getting in this area . Exactly most high schools cant offer it. They simply dont have the resources into the teachers dont have the experience. This area has been crowded out by basic skills and then on College Campuses basically every two and four Year University offers courses in the world but virtually none requires it. At the whole idea of the curriculum is a relic. What i wanted to do is provide a something that didnt assume background. Its not written necessarily for people who decide the danger or focus in this area but a young man who in some ways kindled my interest in this book is a Computer Scientist major and i was struck think about it anyone in college now he or she is essentially going to live a life that will parallel 21st century. Think of where we are living with covid19. We went through 9 11. Climate change is a daily reality phenomenon. So the world matters. Globalization is a reality. How we respond to it is a choice that might interest again is to make sure the nature of the response becomes an informed choice. Your last book was made into an hbo documentary. It was about the complications of the world. This book is that going to be made into a documentary as well . There is a good chance that i will be. The book had an argument it was beginning to become unraveled. Its more than i anticipated three and a half to four years ago. This book, this documentary assuming it happens will be more consistent. It will probably take four or five issues and give people a better understanding of why it matters and what kind of decisions need to be made, what are the consequences and so forth. Lets take since world war ii the Foreign Policy decisions. What would you say the two or three best policy decisions made the last 50 or 60 years or so and then maybe the two or three worst. A. Many of them were made right after world war ii. Dean acheson, the second treasury secretary of state titled his memoir the creation but it turned out to be pretty fair. You have the marshall plan, nato and the alliance system, the standing up of the institutions, the multilateral institutions around the world, the doctrine of the detainment that was accomplished. So i think so many policies that were developed and then followed and were largely embraced by trumans successors. If they are on the list of really good policies. To some of the things done by my former boss president bush 41, i thought that he had the best handling at the end of the cold war, peaceful and with a unified germany and nato was a rather extraordinary accomplishment and the way he marshaled the world to resist the conquest of kuwait was a textbook case of how multilateralism could succeed in a modern world. You asked me the worst policies what they have in common is they were wars of choice, not that we had to fight for that we chose. Of the vietnam would clearly be on the list, the 2003 iraq war would be on the list and curry guy would be on the list but not in the sense of the initial resistance in june 50 but the invasion of the south, but rather the fateful decision by truman and macarthur that probably was the worst decision of trumans presidency to go north of the 38th parallel and try to unify the entire peninsula by force, something that not only failed but brought in hundreds of thousands of chinese troops and tens of thousands of americans died in the process. A. If you look at the people whove been secretary of state or defense, National Advisor otherwise involved in the policymaking over the last 50 or 60 years who would you say have been the leaders that youve admired the most complex. The few ive mentioned acheson, marshall, the post. I think Henry Kissinger was the greatest golfer practitioner of the modern era and more recently jim baker was extraordinarily effective given his political skills and negotiating skills, the tightness of his relationship as well with the president. And National Security advisor . Ive got the consensus pick Brent Scowcroft i was lucky enough to work with him for four years. That is a critical job where youve got to balance two very different roles and be a distant sort of due process and an honest broker to make sure the president is well served. The disciplined decisionmaking and implementation. A second youve got to be a counselor to the president and often the second gets in the way of the first. Some people have been good at one or the other. Brent i think was better than anyone. Whoever the next president of the United States is lets suppose that person calls you up and says im going to the inaugural parties tonight but i have an hour or so to get up to speed on some issues and i would like your advice on how to deal with the Biggest Challenges im going to face. Lets quickly go through these areas. If the next president said what is the biggest challenge i will have the next year or two in europe what would you say the biggest challenge is . To repair americas alliances and relationships with its nato partners. That gives us a basis for dealing with European Security issues like russia and also global issues. The big priority in europe is to repair the Nato Alliance and rebuild trust and establish consultations between the United States and its most important allies. Suppose the president says what is the biggest challenge im going to phase in the middle east which includes lots of different areas now but one of the two challenges you were to tell . Its an extraordinary range of challenges. The most pressing one is aired on moving out of the confines. Negotiating a followon agreement to extend the limits i would put that at the top and think about how to push back against certain efforts but also you inherit any number of states and that is a potential failed status over the middle east was, is and will be the least stable least successful so what i wouldvwouldtalk to the presidet can we do without trying to do too much, we are not going to transform the region or bring peace between israelis and palestinians any time soon. We dont want to take all the options out of the room, but we also dont want to under reach or do too little. Its a more nuanced conversation but i would basically say what is the minimal smart approach to the middle east that would avoid of the two extremes of too much or too little. A. If the president said what is my biggest challenge i will face in africa what would you say . The near term challenges one of governance. Too many of the countries simply cant run their own countries while the corrupt and so forth. The longterm challenges claimant change but even more africa is the one part of the world slated to have an enormous population increase and the challenge will be how do you find employment for all these people into take the population increase that would be an asset and prevent it from becoming a liability. That is a longterm program to think about governance, education, health. Essentially provide a pathway for africa to employee literally the 101 billion additional people labels an over the next couple of decades. The biggest challenge in asia minus china lets talk about that separately but if you include india, Southeast Asia and northern asia, what would you say the biggest challenge the president would face. A. Apart from china, two things popped out, north korea. The president will inherit in north korea that has a growing nuclear arsenal. What do you do about that. The other end of the pakistan relationship. How do you build a better relationship which will soon overtake china as the most populous country but also how do you try to reduce the odds that india and pakistan go to war because when i look around the world the Nuclear Weapons might be used im afraid i would probably put that at the top of the list and obviously that needs to be remembered. And china . We push back where we must but we dont include cooperation which still serves our interest to say north korea. That would be one of the great priorities. Have a strategic conversation to try to establish some rules of the road. I would put that right up there working more closely with our allies which by the way would help us i think. And of trying to narrow the gap of the responses. With south america what would you say the biggest challenge is including mexico . The biggest would be related to covid19. South america is stunningly unsuccessful with dealing with it. Once we get a pass to that point, the challenge is governance. I am not worried that chile, argentina, brazil are going to go to war. Its not geopolitics but politics politics. Its dealing with classic challenges and we have a tougher problem in promoting stability within the countries but that really is the challenge of mexico, brazil and a couple of other countries in the region. Hispanic except for the time Henry Kissinger was the security advisor and secretary of state theres always been some dispute between the counselor and the state department if the president said how can i resolve that without giving one person both jobs what would you say is the way we can make that Decision Making process so much smoother than it has been. With the machinery they deserved and its not always the one they need so i would make it clear the venue for decisionmaking they get the National Security advisor, secretarsecretary of treasury, intelligence chiefs for the Agency Interest ahead of the jury so i think a zero tolerance for the bureaucratic gain would be an important thing to establish from the getgo this is a man that knows Foreign Policy. Why should i end every citizen in the United States cared about the Foreign Policy overseas worried about my job and family. Why should the average american really cared about the policy . It is a great question. You mentioned two things. Their job and their family. The world can be a tremendous threat to your health and physical security. We are seeing this isnt going to be the last pandemic of the lifetime. Nothing stays there so one thing is if the world likes it or not its going to matter. Of the importance of the economic strain so i think with war and peace or cyber the National Security of the United States, the strength of our democracy, the strength of our economy and physical security here at home. But i think its something they have to spend time explaining. There would be more support for the Foreign Policy and i always tell when they ask me yes you spend most of your time dealing with the rest of the world spend at least a date a month with this or that rotary club to explain to americans why the world matters and what we do in the world. Most americans dont study this. They did a study it they forgot it. I dont think any president or secretary of state takes for granted that people understand the connection of the United States to the world in either direction or why so if you cant take it for granted you need to be out there as somewhat of an educator. A. As i mentioned earlier youve written 15 buck 15 books into td of the council pretty impressive. About also on a morning cable show called morning joe, are you more recognized on the streets of new york because of that show in your books flax. There is more than a little truth. Theres people that. Now not because of any of that but because of the interviews so i benefit or suffer from a little bit of that myself. The National Book festival is the ingenuity so as you look at american Foreign Policy, how would you describe that as being part of American Ingenuity over the years . Theres almost nothing about history that is inevitable. Ultimately it is the result of the class or intersection and basically turn out well. What people come up with the big ideas. We talked about the creativity of a lot of the people around president truman who essentially set the foundations for order in the world of outlasted for three quarters of us andre. Now we need to something just as great. Three decades after the cold war. We have squandered a lot of the inheritance that we had to so this is a moment that calls for American Ingenuity and the design in order. Like disease and Climate Change, like terrorism. This needs to be the second great moment of american Foreign Policy if there ever was a moment, this is it. Final question. To be very serious about it. If someone is watching and says i want to be like richard haass, a Foreign Policy specialist. This is what i really want to do, what is the appeal and do you have any regrets that in your decision as a young man that you decide to go into foreign policies why should somebody else want to do that and why do you enjoy being in Foreign Policy . I dont have any regrets. I feel extraordinarily fortunate. Its interesting the issues you grapple with are about as interesting and as difficult as they get. If you are lucky you can have the chance to observe history and if you are really lucky, you can have the chance to help make history, to participate. And what an opportunity that is to be involved in things that truly matter. You are working with talented people. What you say or write can have consequences. Its bigger than you. What can be ultimately more satisfying than that. When i came of age in the \60{l1}s{l0}\60{l1}s{l0} and \70{l1}s{l0}\70{l1}s{l0}, the big issues were Foreign Policy perhaps if i were five or ten years older when the Civil Rights Movement was at its peak, i would have been more interested in domestic issues. Perhaps it would have been somebody else. But when i came of age i remember not just of the vietnam but after graduate school, reading and watching what was going on with the United States into soviet union. To me, that was my time of coming of age, so it was pretty clear that this would be the direction that i would go. And now what is so interesting is the issue is the world is grappling with. Its almost more fundamental than what we dealt with in the cold war. He woke up every morning and kind of knew what the chess pieces were, dealing with abstract issues of arms control but now these are first order questions that deal with Climate Change or pandemics can you persuade americans the world matters and we ought to have an active role so this is first order stuff, historical stuff. I tell people now would be i think a more interesting time than ever to make the decision to get involved. At a minimum as a citizen but even more potentially as a career. I have spent some time in the council of Foreign Relations office and i read your book and learned a lot and i dont know if im supposed to brag about that or not. I thought i knew a lot but then i read this book and i dont know if i was supposed to say i didnt need to read this but it did help me. Even if you have a Foreign Policy background, how long did it take you to write this . You really got to be at a level of detail but also understanding to strip away the things of the economic chapters. I learned a lot as well i try to write the book those who do this full time but also be helpful for people if its the first birthday read on the subject. Thank you for having me. There are several more rams coming up the National Book festival and here is another
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