[inaudible conversations] good morning. I call this hearing to order. In just the past six months, the covid19 pandemic has completely upended our everyday way of life. One of the most sudden and stark transitions to the way all of us work. Millions of americans have been unable to go to the office each day, as a result, weve had to find a way to get our jobs done and keep our economy going. The financial hit to small and larger businesses has been devastating during this crisis. Reducing expenses is increasingly important for individuals and businesses, as the country struggles with the unexpected costs of the coronavirus pandemic. Such cost savings are likely to persist after the pandemic. Nearly one in five private sector chief Financial Officers plans to keep at least 20 of their work force working remostly after the covid19 pandemic ends in order to cut costs. I believe the federal government should also be looking for opportunities to save taxpayer money wherever and whenever possible. The private sector a leading the way in reducing expenses. In recent years, theyve reduced real estate footprint in order to save money. Theyve been able to do this because modern technologies have allowed them to adopt remote work ongses and flexible strategies. By 2016, Dell Technologies shifted one quarter of its employees to work from home. Either fulltime or a few days a week. Dell technologies was able to consolidate office space, reduce Square Footage and implement more Flexible Work space strategies saving roughly 12 million each year. American express saved up to 15 million annually on real estate through Flexible Work options. Aetna provide Flexible Work space and home options for 47 of employees decreasing its need for office space by 2. 7 million square feet and saving the company 78 Million Dollars each year. On the federal side, the General Services administration, the gsa, is the most advanced agency in the federal government pursuing remote work options and the improved office space through various workplace strategies, including enabling and supporting mobile work, reconfiguring support spaces, desk sharing and shifting from Traditional Office space to flexible open plan workplace environments. A top priority of the gsa is to maximize the use of the federal space, eliminate costly lease arrangements and dispose of underutilized assets. Gsa decreased the Square Footage of its own usable office space by 32 . It has cut its operations and maintenance costs by 10 million in the last four years. The office of Personnel Management reported to congress that over 900,000 federal employees were eligible for telework in the fiscal year 2018. Now, thats 42 of all federal employees. The Global Workplace analytics, determined if all federal employees eligible for telework had telecommunicated just half the time, the federal government could reduce its need for office space by 25 . Taxpayers could save 1. 75 billion dollars in real estate costs alone, and over 11 billion dollars in total costs. Through such telework, federal employees would save on personnel experiences and expenditures such as food, computing, gas and dry cleaning. Todays hearing is an opportunity to examine how the lessons the private sector has learned about cost savings, from telework, can be translated to the federal government. These lessons will allow the government to reduce its footprint and save american taxpayer money. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today, and am now turning to Ranking Member carper for his statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im happy to be here with you, live and in person and we welcome our witnesses from as far away from, as i understand in texas and in california. And we thank you all for joining us. In california, we spent some time there in the navy and right about this, what is it, 10, 15, earlier than that in california and thank you for getting up early. It goes without saying that just about every aspect of our lives has radically changed the last six months as individuals in the country have been force today adopt to a new normal in our lives, wearing marsh masks, coughing in our sleeves and more. Nor millions of americans one of the challenges has been adjusting to the new normal of telework. When it comes to finding solutions for tough problems, i often say, find out what works and do more of that. And the sudden shift to implementi implementing Flexible Work strategy, the federal government has given us how those alternative methods works or dont work. This is our opportunity to find out what works and do more of that. And what weve learned about telework today will fundamentally change and shape how we view and implement telework as a country from now and well into the future. One of the agencies under the jurisdictions of our committee is General Services commission, affectionately known as gsa. And i hope the testimony today will shed light about the use of private space like peoples homes that the chairman has alluded to during telework, which could provide new and important insights about thousand we operate Federal Buildings. After all, we have more than, im told, 350,000 buildings that the federal government uses and they consume energy, in fact, im told the federal government is the Largest Consumer of energy. And what weve learned about telework today could help us figure out how to occupy and operate Federal Building space more efficiently and ultimately reduce our nations carbon footprint. Another area of concern for the committee is impact of telework on our environment, specifically on our air quality, as our witness from california will describe in greater detail across the country, communities that are normally cloaked in smog are now breathing cleaner air and experiencing the positive effect of widely reduced travel. For too long, we have witnessed the harmful effect of air pollution on health and public life and so Many Americans especially those in our most vulnerable communities. I believe we should be doing whatever we can as soon as we can and that could include reducing travel demand during rush hour, through telework policies. And includes reducing vehicle emissions through fuel economy standards and through the electrification of the cars, trucks and the vans that we drive, which are the largest source of global or pollution in our country. And another important way to reduce travel related emissions is by investing in multimodal low emission like walking and biking. And looking at telework, transit, cafe standards and eelectrification, that could [inaudible] when this is fading memory. Youve heard me quote Albert Einstein more than you want to remember, in adversity lies opportunity. Ive been thinking that quote a whole lot the last couple of months because our nations adversity that were facing tremendous adversity were face being, while extremely tragic, this pandemic provided us with a reallife case study on effect of reduced travel related emissions and i look forward to learning more how we can translate successes into longterm strategies to help us address Climate Change and finally, mr. Chairman, the Homeland Security and Government Affairs committee on which i serve and which has jurisdiction over work force issues held a hearing yesterday on issues quite similar to ones were going to be taking up today. I look forward on drilling down with it again mr. Chairman with members of our committee and persons over the internet and to and maybe we could even work with some of our friends on Homeland Security committee as we continue to adjust to this new normal. Ill close with this, a decade or so ago, folks Discover Card, we had a fair amount of Financial Services in delaware, but the folks from Discover Card said, were thinking of doing Something Different at the air force base and i said what would that be. And i said put up like a branch or something . No, no, were going to hire spouses of military personnel, dependents, to work for us from their homes on the base. And i said, really . They said, yeah, really, and they did. And i think they still have over 100 spouses working there remotely and a second income for themselves and their families and Discover Card actually wins a lot of kudos for the Customer Services they provide so find out what works and thats what were trying to do. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you, senator carper, we have some outstanding witnesses and were going to hear from them all whom are joining us remotely. Mark pringle, the schnarr vicepresident of corporate real estate and Dell Technologies, hell be joining us remotely from round rock, texas a few miles north of austin. Kate lister, Global Workplace analytics joining us from carlsbad, california and finally, Michael Benjamin, the chief of air Quality Planning Division for the California Air Resources Board. And he is joining us from sacramento, california and welcome all three of you today. I would like to remind the witnesses that your full written testimony will be made part of the official hearing record today. We ask that you please try to keep your statements to five minutes so that we may have time for questions. We look forward to the testimony. Were going to start with mr. Pringle and then to miss lister and mr. Benjamin. With that, mr. Pringle, please proceed. Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper. Im from the facility and environment and for Dell Technologies, my statement is attached. In addition ill address the implications for flex work place, and physical need tore Office Spaces and how dell has approached these strategies. Beginning in 2009, Dell Technologies established our connected work program which allows our employees to choose the work style that best fulfills the need on the job and in life, highly mobile and Flexible Work setting. The program is positively impacted our business and approach to Talent Division ap environment. More than a policy, this program is a change how we think about work. Well, work is not anchored to one place in time, instead, its focused on outcome. In 2013, after initial threeyear implementation of connected workplace, Dell Technologies established a goal to enable 50 of our work force to work flexibly by 2020. At times in an office, but also at home and on the road. Earlier this year, before the onset of covid19, we had surpassed that goal with approximately 65 of Dell Technologies, Work Flexibility in the jobs. Dell technology encouraged employees for work arrangements, remote work, flexible hours and job share. And supporting flex workers needs for enhanced technology infrastructure, training opportunities, and an employees resource group. From an Environmental Impact study, 2016, approximately 10,000 u. S. Employees who worked remotely reduced their travel by 136 million miles and admitted 35,000 less Greenhouse Gases from having fewer commuters on the road and equivalent of taking nearly 7400 cars off the road each year and we estimate that positive impact increased two to three times as our remote work increased significantly over the last four years. From 2013 to 2016 our connected Workplace Solutions have avoided an estimated 25 million kilowatt hours and we were able to realize approximately 12 million a year in real estate cost savings, over 50 Million Dollars in total savings. In 2017, as Dell Technologies continued to evolve and grow as a company, our real estate footprint changed dramatically due to acquisitions,s as a result the real estate cost and strategy the last few years has been tied primarily to supporting our business strategy, which includes sites, reducing or eliminating sites and reducing investments for employ productivity. We converted nearly overnight 90 of employees to working home. And looking how best to support our employees work style and managing the portfolio. And Dell Technology can achieve 20 to 30 real estate savings over the next five years as we assess our future requirement. While the overnight transition to remote work force, we know coming out of the crisis we know many of our employees wont need or desire to return to our corporate offices, at least not on a fulltime basis. As we begin our return to site process, we surveyed our employees on how and when they felt comfortable, to return to the office. The results were fascinating. Across the different regions, countries, and organizations, the results were consistent. On average, 60 of employees desired to work from home with the flexibility to go to the office for collaboration and meetings a few days a week. 20 to 30 of employees desired to work from home fulltime. 10 to 20 of employees desired to work in the office fulltime. We actually see this as an opportunity to reinvent and redefine work in the new world and were looking at ways to enable, to innovate new ways of high levels of fully engagement for activity. We need to evolve the data mindset of being in an office fulltime, with an actual busine business, in conclusion were rarely afforded the opportunity to make such dramatic changes to our business ins such a short period of time. Even rarer still is the ability to do so in a way that will better prepare our team in the changing digital landscape by helping us achieve the organizational goals around diversity and innovation. And one of the best ways to recover from both is to reimagine working in ways that generally include for our nation we look forward to that journey, thank you for inviting me. Thank you, mr. Pringle. Were grateful for you to take the time to join us and the testimony. Well turn to miss lister. Please proceed. Thank you, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper. I go where the facts lead me. The employeremployee and environmental benefits are too compelling to ignore. The covid19 crisis forced as said over 95 of Office Workers to become teleworkers overnight and four months into that Global Telework experiment it looks like its going to fundamentally reshape where, when and how people work. Result of this, p wiwc releasedn june. 89 of executives expect 30 of employees to work at home at least one day a week and 55 expect more than 60 to do so, i know thats a lot of numbers, but this is going to change things. The employees want it, too, in spite of less than ideal conditions at homeworking at home during the pandemic, nearly seven in 10 want to continue to do so. The numbers higher in government and this is based on a survey that dr. Anita kamoro and i looked at employees and just as we heard from mark, that two to three days a week seems to be the sweet spot. Its not all in or all out, its part of the time. The pandemic didnt start the telework trend, but its going to accelerate it. Whats that going to mean to office space . The fact is, much of office space in this country is inefficient and ineffective. For more than a decade. Occupancy studies around the globe have shown that people are not at their desks a majority of times. Theyre working at conference rooms, customer locations, coworking centers and working at home and anywhere they can get availability of broadband. So regardless of what you call it, employees are mobile and the same thing for teleworkers, is the same thing for a 21st century work force. And the majority let work happen rather than making it happen and those intentional about it have coincidentally transported their offices that support a wide range of activities. Theyve lower overhead, happier and more productive employees and less waste. Success lies in the integration of policies, practices and a choice of places and spaces and work that includes some. Predictbly the organizations that prioritized Cost Reduction over people, cramming more people into smaller spaces have been disappointed by the results. Telework programs need to be supported from the very top of the organization chart. They need to be deployed as a collaboration between human resources, real estate, i. T. , and other stake holder groups. And when we dont have that cross functional approach outcomes suffer. When deployed strategically weve seen across the public and private sector, the potential benefits of telework are real. The chairman mentioned in his opening comments. In government, some of the numbers that weve seen, Social Security administration reported 900 million in annual real estate savings. U. S. Patent and trademark office, reported more than 50 million in annual savings and almost 100 million reduction in miles traveled. There are many more examples in government. Federal Work Life Survey and federal work survey reflected positive impacts on people. Compared to nontelecommuters, telecommuters are more engaged, more satisfied and less likely to leave the agency. And further how important it is revealed when the department of education canceled their Telework Program and surveyed employees nine months later. The vast majority of those polled said that it didnt do what it was supposed to do, which is enhance collaboration and improve Customer Service and in addition, it decreased productivity, hurt morale and potentially increased turnover. There are lots of examples of private sector successes in telework as well. Cisco, one of the earlier companies to get involved in this, showed a 30 reduction in real estate in spite of 15 increase in work force. It closed 241 buildings. They saved another 200 million in operation expenses. And they produced about 300 million in income from the sale of other owned real estate. Mazda showed 33 greater occupancy in the same space. Adp saved 6,000 per remote work and the cost and bridge telecom, pl plantronnic, reduced real estate by half. And u. K. Government shed 27 properties in Central London from 180 properties to just 63 in Central London. Its important to note that all of these impacts in niece examples have taken the integrated approach, not simply adopting telework. Potential for bottom lining government is clear. In 2016, the u. S. Accountability office was charged by members of congress with investigating methods and tools for quantifying the impact of telework in government and part of that investigation, they evaluated our telework savings calculator which the chairman mentioned in his opening statement. They called it comprehensive and based on solid research. And based on the conservative assumptions in that calculator, as the chairman said, we estimate that government could save over 11 billion dollars per year or 13,000 per halftime teleworker per year. Over 1. 7 billion of that would come from reduction of real estate. We need to go beyond thinking about telework as a tactical solution to the problem du jour and start seeing it as a strategic imperative. In a world where brains not braun or machinery or Land Ownership are the creators of wealth, we need to break loose of the 20th century frame work that keeps us tethered to the concept of work as a place rather than what we do. In the words of, from my understanding, benjamin franklin, out of adversity comes opportunity and this is our opportunity to fundamentally reframe the where, when and how of work in a way that is markedly better for people, planet and performance. Thanks again for this opportunity and i look forward to your questions. Well, thank you so very much. Senator carper, do you want to check in on these quote sources . I mean, were all no, no, it was frankly said, coming out of Independence Hall he was asked what have you created in terms of new country, he said a republic. If we could keep it. But he never said, in adversity lies opportunity. He said einstein said that. And hes right. [laughte [laughter] well, well give you a chance okay, he said well give you a chance to rebut after the other testimony. But wed like to turn to Michael Benjamin chief quality air Planning Division skal california reforce board. Thank you for joining us, mr. Benjamin. Thank you. Im Michael Thomas benjamin, chief of the air quality planning and Science Division at the air Resources Board. Chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify today on Lessons Learned by covid19, regarding the potential for Remote Working to improve air quality and Climate Change. The covid19 pandemic has had a devastating impact on californias people and economy. Today more than 450,000 californians contracted the virus and 8500 people have died. At the same time, the state is confronting a 54 billion budget deficit and has seen more than 6. 5 million unemployment claims since mid march. To address the Public Health emergency on march 19th, Governor Newsom issued an executive order directing all californians to stay home except under limited circumstances. Recognizing the potential longterm benefits of telework, Governor Newsom launched an economic recovery passport that has prioritized. Alongside addressing climate air quality and equity, exploring a statewide telework strategy. He has directed 75 of the employees work from home at least parttime for the foreseeable future. The demand for travel has significantly changed in response to the governors executive order as well as other factors. Between mid march and late april of 2020, statewide vehicle miles traveled dropped by approximately 75 relative to january. This reduced travel has had observable impacts on emissions from vehicles as well as air quality. In the first six weeks of the state at home order, reduction in passenger usage resulted in 15 to 30 reduction in smog forming pollutants and 50 reduction in fine particulate and Greenhouse Gas emissions statewide. Californias network of more than 250 air quality monitors detected a reduction in statewide ambient concentrations on nitrogen dioxide, Carbon Dioxide and fine particulates of approximately 35 . At the same time average concentration of ground level ozone decreased by a statewide average of about 12 compared to the same time period in 2015 to 2019. This is good news for air quality and Public Health, especially given recent research from harvard, demonstrating a link between fine particulate exposure, which disproportionately impacts communities of color, and increased covid19 deaths. More recently as stay at home orders have been relaxed in california vehicle miles traveled have begun to rebound. As of late june, californians were driving about 35 fewer miles than in january. With this continued reduction in travel, emissions of smog forming pollutants to Passenger Vehicles are still down 5 to 15 relative to january, while emissions of fine particulate and Greenhouse Gases are 25 lower. These are reflected in lower measured con concentrations of air pollutants across much of california. While reduced travel and increased teleworking has had benefits for air quality and climate. Theyve resulted in negative impact on transit and shared modes of transportation that will likely make it difficult to maintain Emissions Reductions as the country recovers from the pandemic and more people return to work. Local transit agencies reported that ridership dropped as low as 10 of normal, after stay at home orders and is slow to recover as travel increases. Other shared Mobility Services such as pooled rides and car sharing have been discontinued further limiting affordable options for essential trips. The immediate decreases in Public Transit use or shared or pooled services led to an increase of personal vehicle use. Public transit is often the only transportation option. Surveys have shown currently more than 90 of writers are using transit to commute to work with more than 20 employed in Healthcare Services and almost 20 in food preparation. Looking beyond covid19 it is hard to predict what travel will look like our common employees will continue to telework. Although californias experience with covid19 highlights the potential environmental benefits of expanded teleworking, i would note many jobs, particularly lowwage jobs, are not conduce to telework and many of those workers do not have access to a car. Our economy depends on these people getting to work. In order to take advantage of the air quality and economic benefits of telework we need to continue investing in a range of affordable and clean transportation options, including walking, biking and transit that will enable all workers to get where they need to go while continuing to decrease air pollution and Greenhouse Gas emissions. As we recover from covid19s we also know that people will begin to drive more, and when they do lets ensure those vehicles are zero emissions so that we can continue to enjoy the benefits of cleaner air. That concludes my testimony. I would be happy to answer any questions. Thank you very much to the three of you for your thoughtful testimony. Well start with a series of questions and have rounds of five minutes each, and ill start to ms. Lister and mr. Pringle. Go to ms. Lister first, both questions to you. Is the federal government progress with doctor telework could we significantly reduce the office space requirements for the federal government without harming productivity . Over a decade how much money do you think taxpayers could save . Absolutely you can reduce the footprint. The footprint is already bigger in the private sector, at which office space, many of the buildings are older so theres a great opportunity to reduce that real estate the numbers we came up with, 1. 7 billion a year, are based on 25 reduction in real estate for people working remotely half of the time. Thats only your eligible population. I would question whether or not there are many more that are eligible. Based on how many are working at home right now. I think the potential is there at 11 billion a year, times ten years, 110 billion over the decade. Thats a lot of money. Thank you. Mr. Pringle . Thank you, mr. Chairman. From our experience at Dell Technologies, i think the first part with regards to impact the productivity, we are shifting higher Employee Satisfaction for flexibly without harming productivity. And in line with ms. Lister, we do absolutely think as you have more employees telework, work from home, what you see is lower utilization rates in the building [inaudible] and you have less Office Requirements in regards to that. Also one of our Employee Surveys had [inaudible] Health Technologies contributed positively. I dont think thats going to impact [inaudible] your question regards to over a decade how much money could the taxpayers save, i think there are two parts. Aced upon my experience the government needs to job function at each site to what ms. Lister talked about, i think we want a couple days people want to work from home full time. You have to look at the utilization rates, how people utilize it. And as we look at this based upon my testimony, we look forward over the next five years i do think without all the details of the data behind the gsa ultimately you could save [inaudible] if i could just dig down a little deeper into this because in terms of dell and the overhead cost that you saved since the attribute in a in a k remote work and innovative workplace planning, some of that has been real estate and real estate related costs but theres also just a general overhead savings as well. Can you talk a little bit about how much of that come how much youve saved, how much of that has been just real estate, real estate related costs and the other part of it as well . As we dig into this, there are a couple different parts. Ultimately you saw in our testimony that from 2016 distributed through our connected workplace, approximate 12 meet a year in real estate savings, which is up to 48 billion. It was a little more challenging to crack and manage that in 20172020 just because of our acquisitions and divestitures. As we consolidated our buildings and different things. I think the biggest part as we move forward in 2020 and the next five years, that as we looked upon teleworking [inaudible] we think we could get close to [inaudible] thank you. Senator carper. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Let me just ask a question, just a short answer from each of you. Why do you think it took so long for us as a nation to move into the stretch and for teleworking . Why did it take so long . Why only now . I will jump in there. The biggest pullback since 1970s has been, managers simply dont trust their employees to work untethered. I think the biggest thing were going to learn out of this and what we have learned is that now they realize people are productive and [inaudible] we still need a lot of training on managing by results rather than whites in seats. I think that will make the biggest difference. Others, please. Ranking member carper, what i would say probably the biggest challenge we have seen is [inaudible] it is managers perceptions. We thought by driving a teleworker connected Workplace Program would enable the employees to have flexibility and choice. I think the biggest challenge has just been [inaudible] what has been interesting when covid19 has, its driven everybody to build technology and have 90 of workforce working from home. It is basically dispelled that. [inaudible] and in california, the Resources Board back in march we actually conducted an Employee Survey of our staff. We have 1700 staff, and our survey results yielded results similar to what ms. Lister and mr. Pringle mentioned in their surveys. Really one of the things we have learned is i think very much echoing what ms. Lister just said, which is that i think some of the inertia previously about teleworking related in large part to trust, and i think that the current experience were having is indicating that it actually is very feasible for the institution or an agency to work effectively and to manage people remotely. And so i think this has been a big learning experience for us as an agency as well. Thank you. Several of you have mentioned people still needing to have access to transit in order to get to work. We have seen significant dropoffs in amtrak, in ridership. Recent significant drop off in people traveling by air. Talk to us each of you if you would about what its important we continue to provide that support for transit for people to get to work. After benjamin, do you want to go first . Mr. Benjamin. Yes. When you look at the data for Public Transit usage, its very similar to what you just said, senator carper, which is that but opted to personal uses it down about 15 more, and our concern is that as an agent in my testimony, that many low income workers rely on Public Transit to get to their jobs. They are essential workers and the will always be a large segment of the economy that requires handson work that is not amenable to telework. We are going to need to figure out collectively how best to enable those individuals to get to the workplace in ways that are both affordable and accessible but also have the lowest Environmental Impact. All right. Others, please. Anything either of you would like to add, please . Ms. Lister, mr. Pringle, on te subject . Yes, i think it is important to continue all of the modes of transportation that reduced our Greenhouse Gases and energy uses but i think for a very long time more than a decade, telework has been ignored in the Transportation Demand management community. And so i think some of the monies that are gone to the Public Transit issues really need to think about whats getting people off the road altogether. We absolutely have to support it but i think there has to be a bland and i think that this crisis has proven we need to be able to work remotely for continuity of operations. And its absolutely critical. This is not the last time this is going to happen. I am not saying, im not dissing Public Transportation. We need to do that but we also need to recognize that telework is not just something that happens. Its something that has been made to happen and its going to take some effort at the money to make that happen. Mr. Pringle, anything you want to mention on this . Well, i guess not. Sorry, Ranking Member carper. I think in regards to that, i think its important that what ms. Lister is talking about, using teleworking for individuals. One of the key challenges will be how to collaborate, a lot of people working from home. Some people five days a week, some people three days a week. As you see that i do think its important that we continue to support the Public Transportation in such to [inaudible] i think as you look at opportunities of people work through this, telework especially technology and innovation, a special about 5g, broadband, that would help support it. All right. Thanks. Thanks to all of you come a special our friends out in california. Im surprised some of you are not in your pajamas from california. That wouldve been acceptable. Thank you very much. Thank you, senator carper. We have a number of members participating remotely as well and senator capito is next up with the questions. Thank you, senator barrasso, and i want to thank the panelists. Give me thumbsup that everybody can hear me here. Okay, good. Im glad to see senator cardin on us will get we a border in the West Virginia maryland border one another but back when were in the house together he and i worked on an issue because of the d. C. Area and the availability of federal telework, we worked on that with our friend tom davis from virginia to try to expand those opportunities. Just as the panelists said, it never really took off. There were suspicions about it, and im glad to know were having this discussion again because i think its absolutely what we know here in West Virginia we had the irs, we have nasa, coast guard, all kinds that encompasses telework at the same time as relocating federal employees out into the more rural parts of what would be the greater d. C. Area. But one of the issues i have talked about, and its an issue that before we get to this for everybody and that equal access, we have a connectivity problem. Mr. Pringle, certainly during this pandemic its been very obvious not just in the telework spaceman telehealth but also the education space. I have worked to introduce some legislation like the e bridge act to help give us flexibility for some of the federal agencies to work with private entities to expand our capability. Where do you see this in terms of, is this going to enhance our Digital Divide to go to more telework and yet our Rural Communities are still not connected . How critical is this and what can we do to jumpstart this in conjunction with private sector . Thank you, senator. I think 2. The home estrogens been used for media content and especially with covid19 we basically each of has become an enterprise. So i think there are two parts, is first of all how do we bridge that Digital Divide as you talk about it, and that i think as you look forward it was going to be how to ensure bandwidth capacity in a secure way that enables the home or the router to manage the workloads via tunneling which is how you prioritize work for school versus meteor gaming . Along with the application of ai to drive more intelligent device features that are always connected, [inaudible] the most important its really the java 5g, wifi, 6g. As you look at 5g that wireless fixed wireless Access Points that will allow people to bridge the Digital Divide. Back in the enable that so i think its really investing, supporting 5g, hawaii five along with ensuring as we managed this from home router [inaudible] i look forward to working with all of you on that as we continue to do. Federal Resources Income in each with private entities. In terms of one of the benefits i see at least having my safety part of the larger d. C. Metropolitan area is savings for federal employee say for instance, the average cost of a home in my state could be 110,000 where npc its 600,000. I think from your experience our employees able to enjoy significant cost savings when it comes to housing as result of an increased emphasis on telework so they can relocate lowcost areas may be more rural areas . Then if you look at what we see with the disease spread and pandemic, these areas are goig to become much more desirable. Theyre always desirable to me, but more desirable because you can work there and you can also avoid the congestion that has been contributing to a lot of the spread. I dont know if you are ms. Lister have an opinion on that. Yes, senator go ahead, ms. Lister. I think its a very good question. We need to not create a nation of hats and havenots, to your first question. His other real opportunity for Rural Communities to upgrade their employment opportunities. If you make the investment in the information highway as we did the superhighways. That is a means of transportation to work now. To question about saving money, a typical employee stays between 2500 4000 a year just in the surface stuff from getting to work, the dry cleaning, the three dollars, five dollars copy to be in on where. And in ages if they have the opportunity to move outside the area theres even more savings. About 16 of the population that we surveyed said they would like to work remotely fulltime. Really the kind of have to get to that if youre going to make a dramatic move out of the city. We are also hearing in the private sector, okay, but does that mean im going to take a pay cut . If i am making San Francisco wages and i moved to alabama, do i make the same amount . I think theres a lot of these questions we dont have answers to but i think government can help start to set the example. I think that is significant. One i guess i have not quite processed in that way. So i think that will be a good part of the conversation to the other issue i would just say in closing, having been the appropriate for gsa looking just billions of dollars spent every year for buildings that are not fully occupied, and as you said spaced out very inefficiently. For instance, the irs building out in martinsburg which i believe has several hundred people there, they have been teleworking for years. Any one day only between 7 and 10 of the workforce is in the building that is built for ten times that amount of people. It is something when you do look out, and i look forward to working with all of you on this committee. Thank you. Thank you, senator capito. Senator cardin. Well, try to come thank you much. And Ranking Member carper, very much appreciate this thing. I want to underscore the point that mr. Benjamin made and senator carper. We have all noticed during covid19 the environment has been a lot more friendly. I think morning walks and in that of wildlife we see, we have certainly seen a major improvement in our environment. I am also one of the senators who commutes to work here in washington. I live in baltimore, the route between baltimore and washington daily, and the commute time has been cut in half as result of less traffic on the roads, as it should. My point is this, and mr. Benjamin, i totally agree with your point, if we set up the ideal way of telework, and hope we do, i hope we learned a lesson that many workers can be much more efficient working from home, save a lot of time and help our environment here that would be still those who need to get to work physically. Therefore, our commitment to transit must continue. Our commitment to the transportation alternative programs that allow stuff the bike paths must continue. I appreciate that point i just want to underscore that come one of the Lessons Learned from the covid19. I want to ask the question related to senator capito, i couldnt agree more with her point on connectivity. Connectivity will be critically important if workers are going to be able to telework. If you dont have connectivity you really are not able to compete in our current economy. Yes, we have specific programs that deal with connectivity, but a protobacco Cultures Program that deals with real america. The federal Communications Commission has set up funds to deal with connectivity. Our Committee Jurisdiction the ed a program could be more targeted and more flexible to allow communities to get the last mail connection. I want to thank senator capito, the two of us support together to try to modernize the program to make it work more assessable to local governments to do with the need for their economies, which include connectivity but we want to make it easier for them to use those funds for connectivity. But we have i think an Incredible Opportunity right now. Theres been an underscore of the inequities what you do not have connectivity for students who have had to do distant learning as result of covid19. Senator capito is correct, thats very prevalent and rural americans were connectivity is much more challenging it is also true in our urban centers where for economic reasons homes do not have connectivity. Private providers are providing the service so theyre in business and didnt have enough customers and, therefore, they are not providing infrastructure necessary for Broadband Internet service. Its true, senator van hollen and i did a survey of our origin of education and superintendent of schools. With 24 School Districts to everyone at the School Districts have challenges on connectivity. I mentioned that because as we talk about having accessible telework policy we need to use every avenue available to advance connectivity, and today were talking about the next round of covid stimulus. And i do hope like the house bill we include significant resources for connectivity for students that if we do that will help their parents who have the opportunity to telework in the future, they will have connectivity that we need in our community. I think i will start with ms. Lister as to the need to deal with connectivity as it relates to having the right balance on those who can telework moving forward, those who have to go in in person, or the hybrid system where you work some days from home, someday some work. How do you do that if you dont have connectivity . Youre absolutely right, senator, you cant. It has to be a priority to make connectivity available to everybody. I think there have been some examples during this of companies that take buses, i dont know what it is, a repeater or some internet availability and parks them in places where there is no connectivity so that children can continue to do homeschooling. I hope we will get past this, and we wont have this huge load on the home. Some of it will come back to schools. We want all the sharing in one small place. So some of that may sort itself out but one has to go with the other, youre actually right. Its that jews have connectivity comes also the affordability of connectivity as weve seen as you said when you have your, everyone who at the same time you upgrade your connectivity certainly they can get the service that they need, or many, they dont have the economic ability to do that. It really is necessary for us to figure out how we can have equitable availability of Internet Service in this country. Part of it is real problems. Our economic problems, or if it is just outreach in education and part of it is the economics have had to do with in regulating the industry. To me this needs to be a high priority so we can get the right balance for education, schools and congress and families but the right balance from telework and having to go into work. You can do that unless you have connectivity. That saves us money on wasted time on transit, also saves us, as senator capito says, we dot need as much rental space. We can save money for the taxpayers in this country. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator braun. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you for bring up the topic in the unit i have been here when were talking about cost savings and doing things that are going to save the government money. Its refreshing to hear and see that. Maybe one of the Silver Linings of this crisis where going through, not only telecommuting but telehealth as well. Want to put into perspective, im on the Budget Committee and would be remiss not to bring it up, that we run trillion dollars deficit structurally here in his federal government. Also to put into perspective, walmart is the Largest Company in the world in terms of sales volume of about 524 of billion. The federal government is roughly nine times that size, and each year in just our operating means, we borrow 23 of our budget. So according to Global Analytics when the Workplace Analytics did the amount of savings by telecommuting, half of the federal employees, which were just under a million, did do that half of the year, would save maybe 11, 12 billion. Of course it we did it all the time you could double that. Put into perspective how big the problem is that we try to address piecemeal. The other thing the public needs to know is the driver of these deficits would be basically Social Security and medicare, other mandatory spending, interest on our debt that comprises between 6570 of what we spend. Im glad to see were taking some effort here to find savings. We need to do it but we need to have the political will to look more deeply into what drives this government each year into really an irresponsible place of running trillion dollar deficits. We heard a little bit today about the benefits of telecommuting, and i would like to hear from the three panelists. We have done this in her own business to some extent, not involved with it anymore but i that it works. We use telehealth for a long time before he became en vogue due to this crisis begin. Whatever like to hear from the three panelists what might be some negatives or drawbacks, if any, if we are working from home more and more. Anyone can jump in and start. I will start with that. What we seen from companies have been doing this the longest is that they struggle with a sense of esprit de corps, maintained the Company Culture of having people feel connected to the purpose. I think some solutions to that will come out of silicon valley. I think about todays holograms, making it more rich. But having to hybrid, having got parttime working in the office and part time at home helps to solve some of those problems. We also have examples in the private sector of companies that are 100 remote, companies with 1800 employees. So they have overcome some of these problems, and i think that we really have to a deep and start thinking about how do not just replicate the way we did things in office, how do we me it better . Anyone else . Yes, send a get. Mark pringle. Yes, senator. I think it is ultimately as people telework, they continue to work from home, i think it will be a combination of hybrid model with collaboration i think is an incredible aspect to innovation. I think theres tools and such that are continue to evolve that will help facilitate that, but ultimately you will need some type of collaboration and engagement, and to think the other part is really the culture. You need to ensure a culture of inclusivity. Typically people who worked in the buildings, it was easy to drive inclusivity to that but as people telework, as people continue [inaudible] leadership in the different managers and individuals share the inclusivity. Ultimately, as we get to this model you will start to see more and more of that, i think those are some of the challenges. Thank you. Dr. Benjamin. I would agree with ms. Lister and mr. Pringle. As an agency we are right now going through the type of transformation that ms. Lister described, which is from an organization that has worked primarily in the workplace to one that is now migrating towards very rapidly towards primarily telework. And so for us i key priority is how do we maintain that Organizational Culture . Had to be on board people and that we maintain high morale, given that we are now working in a really very different way than we have in the past . Thank you. Thank you, senator braun. Please, senator ernst. Thank you, thank you, mr. Chy much. Thanks to our panelists for joining us to webex today as well. And during my time innocent i have made have made it a priority to find ways to save taxpayer dollars and make the federal government work more efficiently. And i am glad were taking this opportunity to examine the topic here today. I have long been a proponent of moving more federal jobs outside of washington, d. C. In the past two congresses ive introduced the strategic withdrawal of agencies for meaningful basement act, the swamp act, and currently we see that the headquarters of nearly all of our executive Branch Agencies are clustered in and around washington, d. C. , and that concentrates hundreds of thousands of jobs in the region. The swamp act creates a Competitive Bidding process that allows states, cities and towns across the country to compete to be a federal agencies new home. During the covid19 pandemic many of our federal workers have successfully done their jobs outside of d. C. , showing us that they dont necessarily need to be in washington to do their jobs. And i think this bolsters my argument that we can and should move more jobs out of washington and closer to the folks who know the needs of the states, their farms and their businesses best. And in the process we will see more job creation and greater opportunities for communities across the country, and not just in d. C. So i would echo the sentiments of my colleague, senator capito, in that, you know, there are a number of us that use the rural areas, and we agree that there is great opportunity in those Rural Communities. So, mr. Pringle, if we could start with you, please. Clearly dell connected workforce has been successful and had your company well prepared to adapt to the remote Work Environment that has been brought on by covid19. And what challenges has dealt encountered and its and the mentation of the connected Workplace Program . And then how you been able to overcome those . Sure. We implement the connected Workplace Program as you work through it, obviously the benefits, one of the biggest unforeseen benefit we saw was how we grew over the years. We are 65 . Obvious today we working at 90 . In terms of challenges, really i think the biggest challenge would be as you look at it [inaudible] how do you manage the real estate collaboration . One of the other benefits we are really starting to pursue, which is what you mentioned, is we have an opportunity to go out for Talent Acquisition which allows us to access talent, diverse talent, more inclusivity across the u. S. That we probably would not have been able to access if we were locked to a specific region. Yes. And to that end, saving the dollars as well has been really important, and as you mentioned the talent and finding talent for dell. If we look at the talent would be available if the swamp act were to be fully implemented, moving federal agencies like usda outside of washington, d. C. And actually out into the areas that the represent like a place like iowa where you have innumerable men and women that have worked with agriculture entire lives, studies at me of our fine universities, agricultural programs. So you know the talent is in those areas, and we could see the usage of remote work and relocation. We think it would be very, very beneficial. So with your program, mr. Pringle, do you think that could be duplicated for a federal agency . And perhaps be as successful as what youve seen at dell . Based on sales experience, yes, we have used dell. We use the Workplace Program to support the fellow come come to support local state governments. And ultimately you can leverage different ways to support different organizations in different states with telework. More diverse talent. Thank you very much, and others forward to learning more about teleworking as we move on into the future, but i think theres a way we could Say Something our taxpayers some dollars and allowing them to keep more of the hardearned cash. So i look forward to exploit it for the, mr. Chair, and thank her for the opportunity. Thank you very much, senator ernst. Ms. Lister, we are winding down but well see if other centers have additional question. The question to you about advancement in the workplace. I have worked with me now this summer four wonderful interns. We have pages here in brooke and malachi and vinny. Were getting a chance to take a look at them, they look at us, is this something they have the will and the skill to work, is that a good fit . They can prove their value. The question is, in terms of are there advantages across the board . You written a lot about this. I have read some of your work. For advancement in the workplace pensions of proving value, in terms of the gimble to promote oneself, standing out, are the advantages you have seen basically to being physically present to make the best case for you . And what have you seen along this line as removing to more and more people working remotely . Thats a very good question. It is one of those areas that companies are struggling with. Anecdotally ive heard that on boarding is not working as well, that converting interns to employees is not working as well. And so the groom that takes place at the office is important. I talked to a New York Times reporter who said i learned how to interview sitting in the bullpen listening to other people interview. I think that we need to somehow replicate that or improve on it in the virtual world. But but i think there again itt all or nothing. I think there are ways to do men touring and matching people to help solve some of these problems. There are also as i said companies that do this all virtually. Get lab hires everybody via chat. They become an employee never having talked to a person live or seeing them. So the our solutions out there there are. But again im a big fan of the hybrid mode, and i think we just need to feel our way through this. In terms of the data, we show that the media perhaps overemphasizes the problem of career advancement. We find only about 25 of people say that they feel that they will not advance prickly or that they will be penalized in terms of salary. Well, i want to thank all of you for your time and your efforts today to join us from around the country. Weve had good participation by senators. There may be more members asking questions so they can submit written questions for the record. We will keep the record open today, the written record for two weeks so please try to respond back to the pier i want to thank all of you for your time and your testimony, and t this point the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] financial regulators testified on the impact of regulations on diversity and minorities before house Financial Services subcommittee today. Live coverage at noon eastern on cspan2. Conkers is set to return from summer recess with the senate back in session today. They will take up a number of judicial nominations. Thats life at 3 p. M. Eastern. The house returns for business next week with work expected on condemning antiasian buys during the covid pandemic, decriminalizing marijuana at the federal level and reauthorizing u. S. Intelligence agencies. To that items not on the official schedule but we could see by the end of the week, a pair dan coats relief package from republicans and a deal to fund the government passed september 30 when current funding levels explain to watch the senate live this week on cspan2 and the house when they return on cspan. Bidens record is a shameful roll call of the most catastrophic betrayals and blunders in her lifetime. He has spent his entire career on the wrong side of history. Our current president has failed in his most basic duty to the nation. He has failed to protect us. He has failed to protect america, and my fellow americans, that is unforgivable. The first president of debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden is tuesday september 29 at 9 p. M. Eastern. Watch live coverage on cspan, watch Live Streaming and on demand at cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio app. President ial candidate joe biden met with Union Members and veterans in lancaster pennsylvania and drink the discussion he talked about military Service Service and ln apprenticeship programs
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