Transcripts For CSPAN2 Joshua Myers We Are Worth Fighting For 20240712

I want to start first by thinking everyone for being here. We are all here to discuss a moment in Howard University history, and a lot of you were here in the our zoom tonight, were direct participants in that moment so we invite you to use the chat in the q a to share reflections as we engage in dialogue. After our dialogue well take questions from now. And then finally this is being simulcast via youtube so share the link and those who may not be able to join us here can also view the program. April r. Silver commented that there are two howards. But she left it there. Almost as if to signify that what is known aint got to be reminded me of the famous score activist and former dean, kelly millers statement in the 1916 Howard University yearbook, quote, those who feel it know. Theres a howard hidden from view that nevertheless comes to the surface often and forcefully because it represents an alternative black political culture to use the word odd cedrick robinson. The culture that xis in mass among our people. A political culture more humanitarian than individualistic, more inventive than imitator. Im a product of that political culture and it confronted men byes would a student at Howard University. Silver was a part of that political culture. And it is it, not necessarily them, it is it that produced the moment of 1989, a moment where we saw an intent to remake Howard University for at the very least prevent its remaking. That year the board of trustees with the backing of the president , appointed lee atwater to a position. Atwater who was the Republican Committee chairman wanted to recruise black elites to the g. O. P. But it was the g. O. P. That had recently utilized a race sis dog whys until the form of the William Horton advertisement to help extend the rightward shift under ronald reagan. Atwater was the, a connect of the ad that directly targeted black people, many of whom looked like the first generation students at Howard University at the time. So a group known as black decided to resist. This group was founded by the son of a student activist, poet and budding leader on campus. By 1989 the leadership of the group was passed through april silver, a english major who has been studying under sanchez and miller. They with the help of men organizers took control 0 of the Administration Building on march 6, 1989. We are worth fighting for hurricane history of the Howard University student protest of 1989, a work that i wrote in deep collaboration with the members of black neoforce, tell thursday store of the moment and a larger story of a force of that alternative black political culture and how it converged to stepped extend the tradition of black student activism at black colleges and universities. The late 80s and 90s were an important site for the work, and that work continues. I am joined by miss silver who is the ceo of a direct extension of the work at black neoforce and now mayor of the city of musician number, whose political career is rooted in this moment as well. So i would like to first begin with a question for both both of you and its a very simple question. Think it helps orient this conversation in important ways and that question is, why did you attend howard . And all and what were your First Impressions of that space and the state of education in the late 1980s. Whoa who do you want to answer first . Ill go first. Before i answer the question, if i may, say hats off to you. Dr. Myers for the work you did and as you said this deep collaboration with the organizers of the Howard University protest in 1989. I want to say whats up my brother, mayor barack could as well, and also just give thanks. How we. Do we start off and just give thanks to our ancestors and all those who came before us, so i know well talk about that a little bit more, but to answer your question specifically, i love to tell the story but my going to howard. In high school i was not interested and was just herely of this you have to prepare for college, and in tenth and 11th t because in my home it was just expected that i would go to college but i didnt want to think but it. Just wasnt excited about it. So somewhere around the 11th 11th grade i went to a college fair and i should say i was born in new york but i went to junior high in and high school in los angeles. So, 11th grade at Hamilton High school in los angeles i went to this college fair, reluctantly, dutifully, and i saw this sea of white people with the different tables and then i saw these black people off in the margins and i was like, wow, this looks interesting. I walked over to the table and was introduced to this thing called Howard University. I had no idea. This was 85, i guess. I had no idea that there was such a thing as Howard University, no idea there was such a thing as a black university and i was drawn in immediately to see the pictures and the enthusiasm of those recruiters, i think it was man and a woman, and when they started talking about all of the people who graduated from howard i was instantly converted. I knew in that moment that is where i would go to college. I just knew. I was just i had never heard of that, there was no such thing. So, i applied, i was so sure that it was going to get in, it is the only school their only university aapplied to. My plan was to apply to howard and i had discovered that loyola in los angeles had a late application process so the plan was if i didnt get into howard, i would stay in los angeles and go to loyola marymont. My father said if you stay here in los angeles, because we want you close to home, ill buy you a car. But if you go to howard, all of our resources are going to be to send you back to the east coast and you do what you want but you can stay and you can have a car, and i was like, hear you, that would be awesome but im going to howard. So that was 11th grade. I got accepted april 21st, 1986 is when i received my letter of acceptance. I know the date. I still have the acceptance letter. And i cried. I absolutely cried when i got in. I couldnt believe how lucky i was to get into the only school that i applied to. I knew that i was supposed to be at this black institution. I was looking forward to discovering more about me, more about my heritage and this not to say that i grew up in a household where there was a lack of conversation about black heritage. Absolutely that wasnt the case. We were we are and were a proud black family but i didnt grow up in a household where my parents were social justice activists. They were working class folks who tried to do the best they could and wanted their oldest child to be followed by their youngest child, the two of us, to hopefully make a better life for themselves by going to college. So, they werent in the streets marching or myth. Working class folks mitchell father work for the post office for decades, me mother was an executive assistant. So the fact i could get in and good to howard i would have been a first generation graduate had i gone through the four years, which i did. It was just amazing. Cried. Still have the letter. Remember the day. And not to sound corny but the rest is history. So my introduction by these College Recruiters in 1985 us holiday i ended up entering howard in august 1986. I knew it was any destiny, no question. Thank you for having me. Glad to be here and having this important discussion. A pleasure to be hanging out with april. I actually went to a college tour that the school gave. I was supposed to be on a trip. Actually i was and i wasnt because i didnt want to go. And i came to school late, purposely, and the bus was in front of the school, and my guidance counselor said are you supposed to be on this trip . I and i said, you know, because i thought i was smarter than everybody at the time, i said i dont have a permission slip and you cant make in the go on the trip. He brought me into the building and called my father and the Guidance Counselors office, and got permission. And basically forced me to go on the trip, and i came down to Howard University and i saw all these black people in school from all over the place, studying things that things i cant even pronounce and i thought this is exactly where i would should be. That was like the best College Recruiting tool that they ever could have engaged us in. Actually bring us to the university and seeing it. So i said i have to come to school here and my father went to school there as well, so i i was not at that time in my life not interested really in college that much. I wanted to stay locally and go to school here because my parent would would want me to go to college so i would do it because of that i. I went to University High school one of the better schools in he city and i just thought it was a natural progression that you had to go to college. I wasnt these about it or excited or even thought that Howard University was a place i wanted to go. Until they made me go down there, almost like disvine intervention. I walked into the school, prepared to go to class and too what i normally do at school, and wound up that day at Howard University, and so as april said that is exactly in my mind where i was supposed to be, so i did everything in my power to get there. Filled out application, i did all the other kind of work i was supposed to do, and i got an acceptance letter and i was excited. To good down if with all the freshman before everybody else showed up. I realize i didnt introduce myself. Im joshua myers. He teach at Howard University. The Africana Studies department anded a a graduate of Howard University so we all share that idea 0 if you dont feel ityou dont know. But taking that the 1980s are a very difficult time for the black community, not just in the United States and also globalow. You have reaganomics and the antiapartheid struggle in Southern Africa and what is going on in the people of color in Central America and american the American Military and cold war. And howard students going back to the beginning of the decade had been organizing. They had been some response. But as the stories are told, were told to me, with your generation, generation that came in the fall of 1986 it wasnt automatic that you all became politically engaged. Can you talk but your journey to consciousness and how that manifested at howard. I always i grew up in a household where most of those things were happening. Big parties and people jumping up, giving diatribes on capitalism and reading poems and music. So it was kind of wild scene and my family in newark was very, very, very engaged, actually people here in the city of newark, a lot of organizing, a lot of police even attacks, all kind of things happening to our family while is was a child. And so some instances you start to move a. Move away from that bus when youre a kid and everybody elsees doing Something Different you still like you are feel like you are on outcrass. People talk but you because of your name, the way you dress, you dont celebrate christmas, dont have normal birthday parties and move away from that because the rest of society actually teaching you the opposite of. That like the poetry i heard when i was a kid was never poetry i heard in high school. What i thought i was doing something wrong or these people were not really sanchez read a poemdidnt sound like the poetry we studied in school. Or people that i heard growing up, and owent to howard it thought it would be easy to leave all of that in newark, and that was my first inclination to do that. And i met a young man who was a part of an Organization Called black united youth, and he invited me to a meeting, just out or curiosity, the magnet nick attraction because you have seen this stuff before and i went to the meeting and they were studying a become called capitalism and slavery. And i started reading and being part of what they were doing and almost like second nature. This is probably what i should be doing. I was trying to do both. I was trying to do that monday, tuesday and wednesday and on friday, saturday, sunday, i was hanging outtive the new york crew and jersey and philly and wreaking havoc, what College Students do, and i was like 1 and i would be 18 years old. Was a kid and we look back on that you see all the mistake outside made. I was a child. And when i started going to those meetings i was trying to get them to convince other people to be part of it. This is we i hang out with and be part of this because they were trying to do protests, silent protests. I remember i got travis and kevin baxter who kevin is still in new jersey in politics. To come to rally with me. That was it. Nobody else would do it. And so i decided to leave that organization. And bring what they were doing to my friends, and thats how i began that kind of thought process is really the way it happened. Just progressed like that and wasnt like well thoughtout an emotional reaction of a 1718yearold boy who felt like, im tired of being over here and being an outcast. Im going to make the worlds collide and thats what happened. Really important lesson for political organizing, people often talk about meeting people where they are, as if where they are is implicit and apolitical. The party escape you were czeched to the party scene you were connected to had political potential asee. So black neoforce, you and others also that was happening in new york at the time. We had howard beach, you had hawkins, all these things going on. Right . So, those things were a part of helping to educate people on where they live, and it wasnt like a far fetch to get people to think they should be part of these things. I was going to say, that came through music, through hiphop, and so miss silver, can you speak to your journey and what the mayor is speaking to, his experience, and your world . In terms of being politically educate . Is that the question . Yes. Yeah. My First Organization the one thing i remember clearly as a freshman was the abundance of opportunity to be involved to be etch gauged to do something and engaged to do something. It was absolutely overwhelming. I knew i wanted to be more than just a student in the classroom. So my first the very First Organization i joined was the california club, because remember im a native new yorker but im coming to howard from los angeles, and that was just me wanting to be involved in getting to know people, and then after that, i joined the alpha Sweetheart Club because you are presented with greek life or black greek life and i had never been presented with any of. That this was me searching to try to figure out what am i going do because i want to be more than just a student. So along the way with me going on this journey of discovery and what is available and how do i use my talents and such, i ran i was writing for the hilltop as well. So somewhere around 8 , 88 im being introduced to this guy, razz baraka who is going on tour and im covering events. Think i actually covered i think you put this in the book, dr. Myers, that National Black student unity conference, i think im saying the name wrong but i think i covered it. So im being introduced to all of these political education and why i dime howard in the first place, and i see this guy. With this young woman, who at the time was lisa williamson, and im blown everybody. Absolutely blown away. So it was commitly content complimentary content in speaking and engaged. Was an english major and also an africanamerican studies minor. So all of this real live, current commentary commit committed what i was learning but, woman named William Sanchez and mary baraka and i thought this is exactly what i wanted to get outside of the classroom. When i discovered this guy who was so dynamic and speak with the son i was like, lineage is right here. So im following them around, im going to different events, im being politicallied of indicated, and it just spoke to my soul. And then i started going to the black neoforce meetings which were newly formed, totally endressed, inspired, intellectually stimulated and i was like, im learning so much. This is exactly where i want to be, this is what i want to learn. And as you mentioned in the book i thought promoting the organizations just because. I would make up fliers. Used to be a work study student at the department of energy, and so in my enthusiasm to be a part of not even a part of but to goh to the meetings on fridays and share my enthusiasm and my love of what i was learning, without anybody asking i didnt know anybody i started making up my own fliers and posting them everywhere i could on campus, and was particularly proud of myself because i would put them in the stalls of the womens bathrooms where it what least expected. Walked around camp campus with fliers, putting anywheres everybody because i wanted to share any joy about these conversations, these debates, the love that was going on, the intellectual stimulation, that is how much i loved black neoforce. I wanted everybody to know. Would tape the fliersen benches on the yard not knowing anybody. But i was inspired and shell intel electric intellectually systemed. May baraka helped me. And temperatures myers you can help me, dr. Russell somebody was the head russel adams. Yes, yes, one of my professors, yes. Learned so much, and in my english class is learn about our culture through poetry, through the literature, of course. So i was just it was an amazing space to be in. Its what i expected and more. So, so much of my political education came through howard and i think this is important to note as well, dr. Myers of. I had a sense of what was going on in source of current events. Wasnt a news junkie. Was not. I could have a surface conversation what was going on but the thing knew the most besides stats, besides details, besides remembering peoples names, the thing i knew most was that it was wrong. That is the thing he knew most. That it was wrong, it was not righteous. We deserved better. I could wrote new dish didnt have any of the language i dont think its needed per se. Its important but i was driven by a sense of what was righteous and what was just and whatever i needed to do as 18 or 19yearold to amplify the fact that this was wrong, just wanted to be part of it. No aspiration whatsoever if just knew that it was wrong. What was going on, and i knew that howard was the place that would help me find the language, help me find the discipline to articulate the greatness of who we are, first and for most. I knew enough to know that talking about black people couldnt always be in the context of us being brutalized so, my dual mission was to amplify the greatness, to be honest about collectively where we could do better, and to make sure that what was wrong was righted. So black neoforce. Black neo, the what best the acronym force. Can you talk but where they cam from. One of the most interesting parts of the story. I think the german name is john, i i cant remember his last name. I cant he came up with the acronym at a meeting that we were early on trying to put together what we were trying to call ourselves. First the sons of panthers was what we were toying around with. Then the son and daughters of panthers because gail sharptop showed up, and so he came over afternoon for, be the force for racial and ed and speed and direction and force, force was the all those things. I still remember all this stuff. Our job was to accelerate the masses. We would be the force that would accelerate them to get moving and active and engaged in the community. And that is incredibly relevant. Incredibly relevant then and i think that whole concept is relevant now, but it thats where it came from almost out of nowhere and he never came back, that guy. I dont know what his purpose was but he fulfilled it that day. It was divine as you said earlier. I always thought that was both profound and prescient. So, at certain point, mayor, you decide to step down from the leadership of the group. You had burt on to the scene on campus. Remember reading the hilltop story, talking about the founding of the organization, and for a strong year, growing and building and then how you make the decision to step down. Can you talk but that . I think its credit dollar how we under leadership. Critical to how we understand leadership. I think that one, even know, i think one you have to be kind of a reflective and i thought that i had outgreen my usefulness in that position for the organizations growth and what we were trying to accomplish if thought was incredibly important in the beginning to be there because it was a testosterone driven organization, guys from mates usuallied a odds, pilly, new york, new jersey, all these other places, and we were trying to all show who was the coolest, the baddest, and it was important for me because people view me in a certain way to be in charge. Played a role i needed to play which was to make sure that Nothing Happened to the people we put in charge and that we protected the organization and the leadership for the organization as much as we could. The contradictions that existed, we are the organization, me, everybody else that it was easier for us to get the direction at the speed we wanted with somebody else at the helm of it. I made the decision to do that, to step down is a process that led to new silver being elevated to that position. I just want to get your reaction. What are you thinking as your name gets put forth as the successor . I had no idea why. I didnt know the guys, i really didnt know anyone and it was a shock. A complete surprise. I dont know what made me accept the nomination. I dont know. Thats the god honest truth, i dont know where it came from. If i had to guess, if i remember, i would likely believe that they probably saw i was a hard worker so that probably what attracted them to it. What made me think i could be in opposition following who we all knew was raz at the time, i couldnt tell you. I do know that when i got the position i knew i wanted to bring whatever my gift, my talent was, it was around organization. It was later that i found out that the guys thought, maybe barack are you can address that, it was later the guys thought i was gonna be a puppet that they would find this person that nobody knows, with no stature, no influence, some worker bee, they would just be able to tell me what to do. So the position would be maintained. Thats what i heard, i think chuck told me that, charles webb told me that years later. I thought it was the most hilarious thing in the world. Like, yall didnt know me. I dont know if that was the dominant thing i think carlisle was there carlisle was involved in it a lot. It was important for the organization to have somebody in charge that people gravitated toward and and that you worked hard, that he would take the organization to another place. I dont think people believed, even if they said that, really. I dont think people believed that was the case, i think ultimately what the guys at that point understood that it was a lot of responsibility, ultimately what happened was people began to feel like, myself included, like this is too much responsibility for us at this time. We began to look for somebody else to lead, thus we began to see where we were going becoming popular that we were not equipped to take the organization to the level needed to go. There was nobody we could agree upon, especially in the area of the guy, we already wiped everybody out. In terms of everybody else i think april was the obvious choice to us. We talked about it. I think carlisle, myself, chuck, maybe somebody else had a discussion about, when i told them that i didnt want to do this no more. They were talking about carlisle seeley, for those who dont know or who have yet to read the book. I feel you. Carlisle seeley, who first told me the story about the transition that really matches what he told me, despite the fact, chuck webb and i have probably the longest interview and his perspective on the transition was one thing but he was also able to see how the challenges of organizing black students at howard required a different voice at that point. Absolutely. Thats true. The year terms 1989, the winter of 1989, when started evoking more names from the group, one i would definitely want to invoke at this point is our jan pope, who he received a call from her father and Meridian Hill hall and he tells her, he asks her, what are yall about to do, she says about what . He tells her about lee atwater being appointed to the board of trustees february 1. She brings it to a black neo force, you are immediately faced with huge problem. You have been doing all this work on this really internal development of our people, of our students, one of the words so consistent was dealing with apathy and using awareness to address apathy. Now you have the potential of a political figure in possession of real influence on campus who is openly antiblack. The question is, what are we going to do . Can you recall what you were thinking at that particular moment in february 1989 when you received this news . I will follow you. It was everywhere, there were some classes in the professors were quietly ridiculing you in some way, professors saying this guy is going to be on the board of trustees so like you feel almost obligated to respond to it and it was all over the community so it wasnt a secret, i felt immediately that something needed to be done. I also felt that we were compelled to do it. That nobody else would be able to get it done but us. I honestly believed that because april was in charge of the organization at that time, it was easier for us to do it. Thats probably why it was supposed to happen when it happened. Honestly, the role i played in the protest part was at that time at howard was the best role i couldve played. Pulling together the folks from cook hall and all the other guys out there, going to speak to them, organizing outside security, that kind of thing. I reached into all the circles. I had reached into all these different circles, which helped me to be able to mobilize. I was pretty good at mobilizing. That the Organization Part that me and april are really for. We could talk real slick and fill up the flagpole with 150 people easily. Keeping 150 people there is what has always been the issue at that time. I think because of all that happened, weve got to do something weve got to do it today. That was the general sentiment, i think every came to the meeting in their mind like this is what we joined the organization, lets get it. I remember that day a bit and arianna pope came and i remember her, our arian is passionate, she brought all that passion to the meeting when she explained it. I dont remember being aware of that appointment, i remember learning about it first and i could be wrong but i remember hearing about it first from arian but to mayor barakas point, whales are we here . Why else are we part of this organization but to challenge this . To amplify the noise about this and to get people riled up. What are we doing here if not to oppose this . Everybody extensively knew this was dead wrong. It was two weeks from the moment she brought that information to us in the general body, on a friday, two weeks later we were at abyou talk about to the mayors point, mass mobilization, it was a bit seamless. I dont want to say it was effortless but it was seamless, the research we knew we needed to do, there were committees provided, what we always talk about the division of labor to find out more information and details and that was maximum 14 day period but we were driven, we were driven, we were deeply insulted, we knew this was not why we came to Howard University in the first place. It was very much a how dare you. We were absolutely driven, or pushed, or both. But it was internal. We got to work. The meeting was on february 17 and then i think charter date was march 3 so you are absolutely right on that score. Which is a lesson because neo force wasnt a mass organization. You didnt have a thousand members. It actually took you all reaching out to the Campus Community, which is diverse. We know black people are always all politically the same. Yet you were able to get enough people into the building on charter day to make that statement. To make abto have that force like presence. I think to the students who are here listening to this and thinking about organizing. How are you all able to extend what you all were thinking to the wider Campus Community who may have been angered but didnt necessarily mean they would be in any way moved to action . How do you get them to move . Part of it is part will. We had already been a presence on campus that people knew, where people knew we were doing what we believed in. We were ridiculed on campus. You have to imagine young black men Walking Around in black tshirts, black sweats, black boots, everybody had on a tam, a black tam. We were radical. Part of the articulation about what it means to be radical that he drilled and poured into us as an understanding is that it means to get to the source. The mayor was always known for getting a word and discovering the latin meaning and unpacking the word and bringing it and putting it before us in a poetic ways, politicizing it, so the rashnalization was clear. We were proud to be radical. That was the expectation, people knew that there was no shiny glossy with us. There was no superficiality. Contradiction, yes. Problems, yes. Things we had to learn, yes. Sometimes we were collectively arrogant in our approach. We were young. Sonia sanchez would come to us often and tell us and remind us, you know you are not the first smart black students walking on the campus, right . Theres this thing that happens with young people, for those who have adolescent children, i used to teach adolescent youth, you think you know everything. No matter how you put it in a humble way you think you know everything. We had a bundle of contradictions but we were real, the passion was real, we were going to do the research and people expected that. When we took a stance, people believed it, or at least believed that there was no ulterior motive except to educate and create awareness and better ourselves individually and collectively. And what companies that is the sheer work. The thing about black neo force members is that we were not scared to work. We were not scared to challenge ourselves. We were going to do the sacrifice and get the work done to create that awareness. I hope im not going too much on a tangent regarding your question but it was sheer labor and determination and not letting go until they could get more people but what we had going for us was the deep level of authenticity in terms of what we believed in. I will leave it there for now. So, they had a plan, april and leadership at the time organize a plan for us. We just executed going to the a convocation was one thing. It turned into something else. It grows like a snowball. Moving downhill, gravity swells it and you go in and other people are inspired by the sheer imagination and courage of what you did and become a part of that. We also went in and stopped classes, pulled a few fire alarms. People came by at the flagpole having a rally. People started coming around the rally. Pulling down the american flag, putting up the abflag. Im speaking, other people speaking, really just exciting the imagination of the folks and getting them ready to take it to another level, while we were doing that april was confronting the president of the university at the time. While we were really getting people ready, the stuff was planned. That part of it wasnt spontaneous, it was planned. Our job was just to execute the plan. My job at that point, i was with a bunch of guys whose jobs awe were supposed to lock the building up when its time, we did that. We did it efficiently. We knew because of the plan for that that we couldnt lock up the post office that we couldnt do specific things unless people told us this in advance we didnt just go in there arbitrarily, we started at the convocation and then because that does not bear fruit that we wanted the Administration Building became obviously where we had to go next. Thats really how it happened. You are right, i was addressing a larger point but to complement what you are saying, very well thought out, very methodical, we broke up into all kind of subgroups and we had a resource committee, we had a logistics committee, we had an Outreach Committee that went to the college of nursing so to the mayor , we were determined to leave no stone unturned. Yes we had well, we had determination we had imagination, yes. But the intellect and the logistics, it was so much so that people didnt believe that we did that on our own. There was one point where people have said in the media and other individuals around the time that we were funded, that we were inspired by the democratic party. No one believed that this group of students actually came up with something so methodical and precise, and it worked. There was no assumption we could have figured that out on our own. We were not funded by, influenced by, nor in communication with anything of the sort. I just wanted to complement the mayors point as well. There is so much to be said about the amount of people involved in organizing peace to this. You much of the post office, that made me think about erin lloyd, you mention other aspects about just the sheer amount of planning to take over the Administration Building which began that monday, that makes me think of people like Kevin Williams and jam shaklee and others who had to figure out how to hold that building. How to keep not only the people inside safe, and fed and taken care of but to make sure that folks from the outside didnt come in, who were supposed to be there. That takes an amount of organizing that required planning. I think it was garfield bright told me you all had somehow gotten your hands on the blueprint through the Administration Building so it was methodical. Looking up the time, i want to really get your views on abor just your perspective on those three days inside the building. How that experience really shaped this moment, the idea of occupying a building and holding a building and the will that it took to really ensure that those demands were addressed by the administration. I want to share that, we are talking about organization and the the book, but Sharee Warren was absolutely instrumental for the logistics, the organization, she embodied perseverance. She embodied, the righteousness of the moment as well. We rarely took two steps without each other. At the time i was the head of the organization, sharee was the administer of administration. I just want to make sure that we dont proceed without bringing that up, you do bring it up in the book but, to your specific question about the three days, it really was a nation and motion in a way, in a figurative way. We had all kinds of committees, sharee and i and will sims ab dave porter for sure without a doubt, i think i still might be missing one or two other people, we were the designated ones, it was a coalition but black neil force was the head of the coalition. By default because i was the head of the black neil force at the time, i had the leadership role. We worked as a unit, sleepless nights and it was decided internally that the mayor would be on the outside. Interfacing with the media, making sure that the messaging was right making sure the students knew what was going on the cover of the book is this young man raz baraka yelling at the police. What was very clear, we were very clear about our roles and personalities and how that fit i would not have done well yelling at the police trying to get everybody energized that was not my strength. Everybody played to their strength. The mayor did an excellent an excellent job, everybody did an excellent job. I remember the level of organization and people played to their own strengths, their own talents, there were food committees, entertainment and arts committees going on on each floor. We occupied the entire building, there was security involved, it was just absolutely amazing on every front. It was the epitome of us coming together and people still to this day didnt believe we had the imagination, the resources, the intellect, the inspiration, the endurance to pull this off. And the other element that was really important was the community itself. I love to tell the story, we all love to tell the story about kathy hughes who we now know as the head of urban 1, this was before radio 1, this is before kathy hughes, entrepreneur, had all the stations. She played a significant role in us staying alive in the building. You talk about it in the book as well. She got on the airwaves and made sure the community was in support. Because of her support we had more food than we could consume. The boxes that came into the building to support us when we were occupying the building included sanitary napkins and tampons. Like all those practical kinds of things was absolutely amazing, i will pause here but we and a lot of ways abwe might not be alive to this day were it not for his intervention, if you will. Im not sure if i completely answered your question but we could circle back to it. It was just layers upon layers of organization and work and determination. I have got about three hours asleep the entire time we were there because i was supposed to be outside i remember sneaking in the building and glennis waking me up, a member of the air force telling me, you are supposed to be here, go back outside. Bringing me food and all kinds of stuff. I was outside most of the time but every floor had a role and responsibility we have people in the building at certain times, and people out of the building at a certain time. I was responsible to help make that happen on the outside in order to move through the building there was a password you could not just walk freely through the building and the password was the white man is still in charge. I hated that password so much. I remember abcoming knocking on the door, they were like what the password . Jesse jackson he turned to me and i said its, the white man is still in charge. [laughter] we were young it was that time. It was very serious for us. I tried to get as many people involved, thats not normally political, not normally involved in the thing that i remember the most out of all of it is when i was on School Social work helicopter they wer dropping people out of the helicopter onto the roof. This is a strategy people had to put people on the stairs in case people came so they couldnt move. I was yelling, get those people off the stairs. They were just coming, full force, bust the windows in the front door, cut a hole in the ceiling and the roof. They were really coming to throw us out of there so when april says that marionberry s presence, it was serious, it was really intense. The picture you see of me yelling is not like a followup. We were under attack. We were in physical confrontation with the police. And some security guards a lot of them called out sick that day in support of what we are doing because of what our demands were that they should be paid better. A lot of them called out sick. Those who stayed we were in direct confrontation with those guys on the side door and it got ugly and then marionberry showed up and the sun came back out. Its important for people to know to amplify the mayor here, the day was very much the police, local dc police and swat teams with battering rams, guns drawn, landing on the roof of fourstory Administration Building and when the mayor talks about bamako field hes talking about the park across the street, this wide open park football field size at least hes talking about helicopters landing there, it was in operation and they werent coming in to say hi how you doing . Would you mind leaving the building . It was his father who at some point in this process i forget the order of it but meaning the mayors father mary baraka who was our intellectual guidepost if you will reminded us that the state killed students for less than this there was a reminder to the mayors point that we are embattled this is not cute. There is nothing simple about this your life is in danger and you could die. It was really a life or death scenario for that period of time. Very few people, i dont want to quantify how many people, but enough of us were clear that we wanted to continue. For some of us it wasnt a choice. We were willing to put our lives on the line and we to sta we believed. I would like to say this point, this book you did and the story, it is so much bigger than university. I really want people to understand that this book does not exist so people could be sentimental about what happened 30 years ago. This book doesnt exist because we want to remember our glory days. Most of us are in our 50s. At the time we are in our 20s. This is not about being sentimental. I think an emotional response and reflecting is important but this is really about the continuation of what the movement for liberation looks like, what radical love looks like, 30 years later from 1989 prior to 1989 and how does it show up today 2020 iraqi in our personal lives and careers what are the stances we are taking now . I think its important as you illustrate in the book what drove us and why we were doing this in the first place. When you make those kind of decisions and clear about it you could end up putting your life on the line as we did. In the interest of time, fastforward and give somewhat of a summary of the story and then move into some of these questions. amiller asked about bill cosby, that could be a whole another 10 minute conversation. It was bill cosby who had to move, to put it nicely. He was not allowed to speak. Which is interesting because you were not necessarily impressed by celebrity in the same way we see no. Not only was bill cosby like, then Jesse Jackson shows up and people are like, yeah, okay. Its very interesting given the stature that those two figures had in that particular moment. The Police Intervention is really important because it speaks to the notion of space, who does space belong to . That was something that had to be reckoned with. Because of bill cosby and others, the National News media shows up at howard and those cameras pick up the attempt by the police, to intervene in the building edits broadcast across the world. This is not just a narrow howard story, it became a world historical event in many ways. Maybe you could speak to that in the q a as well. When the cameras showed up, this is broadcast at water ab lee atwater has no choice to step down. He steps down and you all stay for another day to complete the abthis was just one of seven demands. Lee atwaters removal was one of seven demands, you added three more demands. I think Donald Temple was here who played a crucial role in helping you all. Finally, you leave the building, for the next few months you struggled to get those demands implemented, the next year, next Academic Year you all struggle, continue to struggle to get those demands implemented and then you decide that spring to run for Student Government, you win and then you have this moment, you have a year of essentially in the power with student power with the lever of student power to try to transform howard. That speaks to some of the questions about the links between protests and organizing and some of the things you are able to accomplish and i dont know if you all want to speak to your years abyou are year as leadership with Howard University association but i think thats a crucial legacy of the protest because it then builds from there. You enter into the 90s with all this experience and everything that you all have done since it is really, i think, connected to that particular moment. I dont know if you want to stick to that or go straight to the questions. I will leave it up to you all. You are right, one built upon the other. I think we were in the school of engineering when we decided abi dont know who first had the idea, maybe the mayor already had this idea. Not only did we decide to run for whats known as hugh said, Howard University student association, but we had also collectively decided that we were going to run for all the Student Councils. That was to the mayors point that was by design that was not anything ad hoc we as an organization knew that for an organization that was unofficial on campus we had to leverage our power and tap into the resources thats made available to Student Government of the entire student body and the student council. I want to shout out aaustin, the first woman president i entered howard in 1986 so i think she was the student body president maybe the term before i entered. What i did is that made me the second woman president of the Student Organization and all of howards history. What black neoforce did was bring in all of us, Sharee Warren was the Program Director when the mayor and i became elected we brought in the organization. The mayor and i shared an admin executive secretary which was we created new positions as well. I remember very clearly we created the entrepreneurship a this notion of coming to a College Campus just to get a job and work for someone else was problematic for us. We created, for the first time, and entrepreneurship director so that we could explore what it means to be your own boss if you go that route and, mayor, what we have as well . The student athlete liaison . We created positions. We worked okay with just accepting the status quo. We brought creative thinking to that as well. We ran abwe didnt just run also to the Student Government. The Student Councils and different schools and colleges. It was a plot. [laughter] i was going to answer one of these, marion barry was supportive of the protest. What he did was remove the police. I want that to be clear. Thats really what his job is, he came up to the campus and told the police to get off the campus and leave those kids alone. His exact words. He said we have other stuff to deal with in the city, drugs, murder, dont be up there messing with those kids, get off the campus. [inaudible] right. Mayor, you often talk about the response ability of the elders or those in possession, im having a flashback, as a mayor you talked about the importance of running interference. You are illuminating that by highlighting that mayor marion barry ran interference because, as you point out and many of us know, he was a mentor of ab member of snccs when he was a student he brought an understanding and sensibility about student activism and what it means to to do this work and continue this legacy and it saved our lives. Let me shout out also me a young, the admin for the mayor when we were in Student Government. Shout out to sandy for correcting me. One of the questions i want to make sure we get answers from a current student abhis question, we know the pressures of being a student leader coming from all corners, his question was, how did you maintain your independence independence while student leaders . As an organization . I guess hes talking to organizational independence, theres a reason you decided to run in the first place, how did you maintain the consistency and connection and continuity with the purpose that you all ran . We were part of an organization. I dont think we even thought about it. I couldnt even imagine these people telling us what to do or what we couldnt do. Not at that time. I was 19 years old and the administration was doing that. There is no way in the world those people were going to tell us what to do at that time when we thought we were invisible. And we were part of an organization. We still went to the meetings, still talked with people, still involved, that keeps you grounded and focused. Thats absaid you have to be part of an organization, organize, organize, organize. The all African Peoples Revolution Organization that started back abfolks always echoed organize, organize, organize, and being a part of the organization was incredibly helpful. And i was a member of all African Peoples Revolution Organization as well. Theres a question i think from leticia lee, i hope i get the name correctly, around the immediate aftermath and how participating in the protests affected you. I think she is speaking to these harassments that you all faced or the repression that you all faced. One of the things she asked is how long did that stigma stick on you and what did you do about it . Thats a heavy one. You mentioned in the book the harassment was real for all of us. I will talk about my part. You mentioned this in the book as well, i was getting Death Threats on a regular basis. I dont know how the skinheads somewhere in Middle America found the telephone number to my dorm room but i would come home while we were doing all this work to all these Death Threats and because the Security Armed a black neoforce was what it was, i had security for months. The members of black neoforce, they were with me 24 hours except when i went to the bathroom. It was abthe Death Threats were real. To the credit of Donald Temple, we did as much as we could as he advised us as our lawyer for a coalition that we had institute language and provisions to make sure there was no retaliation from the administration, that we wouldnt get expelled, that those kinds of things, i dont know we thought about that if it werent for Donald Temple. That was on paper but in real life, it was real, it was traumatic, it took years for me to even think about some of the work and the emotional toll, doing that at 20 something years old. I didnt even decompress from the emotional impact until years and years later. I will pause there because i know the mayor has other serious harassment going on as well. I think the most struggling part with me was trying ab they tried to deregister me. All the other stuff that went on, you almost expected it. This kind of foolishness. We did what we could to protect each other. I had to go to every teacher and get my schedule signed, all this stuff by teachers to get validated. They just took my validation cards, they invalidated me. I was basically not a student but i was going to class, taking tests, by the grace of god it was my best semester was during the protest, it was my best semester. I attributed that to black neoforce. Black neoforce encouraged study and success and intelligence. Which forced you to read and study and to do your work because you had to be excellent. Academically. That was important. That was my best semester. When i went to those teachers it was easy for me to get signatures from teachers who were professors who said he was in his class, this is the grade he got, abEverybody Knows how hard it can be going to the administration abit was a nightmare trying to go through the process. One of the things that comes up a lot, i wanted to say im not going to ask the question about this but there was a very real support from black political leaders, black cultural leaders, everyone from Jesse Jackson to Sonia Sanchez to abthat really was important to this entire project. Connected to back there are two related questions. One is concerning faculty support. I think we can weave in an answer to this other question related to, what books guided you . What texts were important in this moment . That was our bible, our dictionary, our everything. You had to know that. That was one text but stolen legacy by a underdeveloped africa. Walter rodney. We have a lot of text. We had artists, Sonia Sanchez a awe had a variety of different artists and we brought in lectures when we were in Student Government. Im forced to remember the mothering that we got from mrs. Roberta macleod. I have to say that out loud because she is all of our mothers, our howard mother had when you talk about people standing by us and giving us guidance and giving us understandings and nuances we would not know as students we would not know the administration and the operation and who is your friend in the administration and who is not, who is smiling in your face and what happened in the board room you should be aware of. We had a tremendous amount of support and we talk about the faculty a lot in terms of that support but i want to shout out a woman who wasnt, the moral support that she gave us, Everybody Knows miss mcleod so i want to make sure that she is noted as well. I would say a lot of those peoples childrens went to the school too. A lot of the kids were there, they were concerned about those kids safety and Everything Else going on there as well. That was part of it. Nobody called their mother and father and got permission to do this. We just did it. At the end of the day peoples parents found out we were already in the things are hitting the fan like what you doing . Youre on tv. That got people like we need to make sure, these are our kids, my mother talks about that all the time. She said i told your father you need to get down to dc and find out whats going on or call these people. All of this is important. People they are the expectations people have of university, whether you like it or not, good or bad and then have their imprint on it and still obligated to raise the students, collectively. And then now, which is different from different from today, we had the luxury of a plethora of speakers, maybe a million different conferences we would go to, all this kind of stuff helped to shape our ideology and direction ahead of time. I can barely think of conferences abwe must ahead about five different malcom x conferences, political convention, all kind of stuff going on to help us kind of gather around and support one another. I want to shout out, we cant underestimate the importance, for me personally and us collectively was the influence of Sonia Sanchez. When i was in elko sweetheart i met Sonia Sanchez through her son ronnie because we were in english class together and when i discovered, im being introduced to black poetry and black literature all of this as a freshman sophomore, writing for the hilltops, i was an editor for janet which was the literary magazine or newsletter for the english department. Im discovering all of this and Sonia Sanchez a son was in my english class, that began a lifelong relationship that exists today. When she would come to campus was at the invitation of me at the time when i was head of the office sweetheart core she would come on her own every weekend with no pay. We paid her one time to come because we invited her in as a speaker and she was like, i will come back every week, you dont have to pay me. There is no honorarium just get me an amtrak ticket and i will be here every week. And she was. To the mayors point about what we had access to, and a level of commitment, not only her but Sonia Sanchez gave to us. We could sit at her feet every week and we did in the reading lounge of the blackburn and ask questions but it wasnt just about, how was your life but we were studying, she brought us text and we studied but connected to that was issues of character. Issues of personal development. What is it mean when you have an organization . She always said youve got to make sure theres an even number of men and women in leadership. Wasnt just about text and intellectual exercises but it was about how to organize and build and be honorable in your work how to respect one another and what to look out for. I just needed to say that part as well because it was just as crucial as any text we learned from a professor on campus. Thank you for that. Im going to wind to a close, i see Cameron Hughes here, his role was just as important as marionberrys role. Absolutely. Henry hughes was a deputy mayor of youth services. We want to shout him out. s mother faculty people may or may not remember, Ronald Walters was crucial, eleanors trailer, joseph mccormick, alvin thorton. Those were all my teachers. [laughter] the Political Science department in particular. We can close with this final question, this is from jocelyn imani, i think its important one, it will give you an opportunity to talk about your life since howard. She wants to know what were some of the connections, how strong were the connections that were forged in the moment to protest to who you became and what he became when you left Howard University when you graduated . I had Political Science major and history, i learned more about people and history and Political Science classes than i ever learned in any history class anywhere ever. I had ron walters, aball these people i learned so much and it prepared me politically, ron walters would say to me the first step is getting into the conversation, if you are not in the conversation then what you think and feel does not matter. How do you engage yourself in the conversation in the National Conversation to whats happening, which was the first thing i thought about why i should run for office in the first place even if i didnt win at 24 years old when i ran for mayor the idea was just got into the conversation. We try to get into the conversation, all of our agenda, what we believe to insert that into the conversation. Get in thereby getting into a debate, if i get into the bait that i can do that knowing i can get into the debate abso i be invited to the debate. That was it and i think all the organizing i learned i did not know how to organize. All the organizing i learned came from my experience in black neoforce and watching other people and april and the other things going on. Ive always been good at mobilizing, exciting people, rallying them up but you cant win elections on mobilizing people. My brother who is a better organizer than me, to this day was able to turn all the things i was feeling and saying we should do all the stuff weve been through at howard makes you feel like you are obligated to do something when you leave here we were on campus abthe mayor of atlanta, with puffy who became the super mobile, Sonia Sanchezs kids, on and on and on and howard makes you feel like if you leave the campus and do something mediocre that you have not fulfilled your obligation. Being in neoforce had me on go all the time. Ive been on go since i joined neoforce. I wasnt on go before neoforce. Thats not who i was setting out to be. When i first stepped foot at Howard University campus, if it wasnt for black united youth and black neoforce i would never have taken the trajectory ive taken from that point on, good or bad, failures and successes, to be wearing them today. I agree 100 with everything the mayor said. How that looked for me was a little bit different. Someone told us we were on the terrorist list after the protests i had not gone to i had not done the things nor had i properly prepared to go into the marketplace. My best idea for what to do upon graduation was maybe the mayor abi was behind the scenes and i was quiet i said maybe i can manage his career. I had no thought about what to do. Us the only reason i enrolled in graduate school in howard, i have not done my work but i knew i wanted to continue on this journey so i got accepted to grad school at howard. I did one year, shout out to dan king who helped me become a resident assistant, and ra. I did one year. It was only then that i realized i was exhausted. What we want to remember is that there was the protests, then there was the Howard University student association, then the hiphop conference. To the mayors point, we were arm go 100 we werent even impressed with the protests. We were happy but we said we were not done. Thats why we stayed even after lee atwater resigned, people question, why are you still in the building . That was the ultimate goal. We were like, no. We knew we had more of our destiny to fulfill. We had all these ground earth shattering pivotal things that were pivoting us and change the trajectory, there was no discussion about hiphop and the academy before we as a collective said we had to talk about hiphop and put it in this collegiate setting to deconstruct the culture. When it was easy to bring dougie fresh and biggie before he was biggie, thats a whole another component. My point is to say that we were doing groundbreaking work regularly. For me that translated is, i did not have a chance to process so i went to graduate school because i didnt know what else to do. That i failed. What i learned that scn graduate school was equal to failure i was like, im out. I thought i was doing well. Because i got aci was like i survived my first year. I learned it wasnt, i was like im out. I went to go work for dougie fresh as his assistant because he was doing Ground Breaking work and wanting to mobilize hiphop artists. That lasted a year, i didnt have a plan of action and then i went into teaching. It was around that time that the idea for me for aquila work zones, its 27 years old the agency. Ive been selfemployed for 27 years, amplifying the voices of social justice activists and philanthropics, i designed a path for me out of not knowing what else to do but knowing that i wanted to stay in this conversation around arts and activism and how can i do that on my own terms. I did teach for about three or four years, sharee and i together went to i think it was called the board of ed at the time. We went together. She stayed on with the board of ed and shes a principal now. I stayed on for a couple years and then i was like, i will love these young people in brooklyn. But this is not precisely my calling. I continued and made my business my fulltime job as opposed to my side hustle and aquila work zones to this day at 27 years old we are still doing this work in the community. We are the voices and speechwriters and message developers of a lot of stuff that is not even appropriate for me to say because we are behind the scenes. It is still the work and still the continuation because none of us to the mayors point, none of us are impressed with what weve done because we still have work to do. There is a song not to be super corny but for everybody who loves the stevie wonder, there is a song from his album ab somebody put it in the chat, there is a song that talks about taking us so long because weve got so far to go. Thats one of the lines from the lyrics. Raz baraka is no mayor raz baraka. We could go on and on but some of us stayed in the movement, showing up in different ways. I didnt have a clear cut path at the end. My understanding of what i needed to do, how i was going to use my talent came a short journey afterwards. It looks like that is our time. I want to thank april and raz j baraka, not only for being a part of this event but for everything youve done and for the rest of black neoforce and the people who dissipated in the protests, i want to publicly thank you all for entrusting me with this story, which is all of our story. It was an honor to be the person that put it on paper. Like you said, the work continues so i want to thank everybody for participating for being engaged in the chat, we look forward to connecting to you all again. Thank you doctor myers for your work and guidance, there are so many people we didnt name, its impossible to name a ai would say, stay in contact with us. Through social media or whatever. We still have work to do. I think there is probably some Unanswered Questions so we can continue this in whatever way but thank you to you as well, thank you to our ancestors that remind us every day weve got work to continue. Howard university is safer ground. We have to do what we can to make sure its accountable to the students. I will leave it there. I want to say thank you for putting this together, inviting me to be a part of this, take this trip down memory lane. I just saw a santos on the chat aarp, brings back so many memories. Anytime you need me to be involved, please call. Im interested. Thank you. Here is a look at some books being published this week. President trumps former personal attorney and advisor Michael Cohen recounts his years working with the president in disloyal. And what can i do actress jane fonda reflects on her work as a climate activist, explains how others can get involvedin the movement. Speak ab also being published this week, compromise by former fbi agent and Mueller Investigation team member Peter Strauch in the book he offers his thoughts on the rush investigation and the trust administration. Jenna bush hager looks back at the life of her good leg grandparents, george hw and barbara bush. In everything beautiful in time. In killing crazy horse former fox news Host Bill Oreilly and author martin duque guard describe conflicts between native american tribes and the United States government. Johns Hopkins University history professor martha jones explores the efforts by black women to win their right to vote in vanguard. Find these titles this coming week wherever books are sold and walks for many authors in the near future on booktv on cspan2. Booktv on cspan2, this Labor Day Weekend watch top nonfiction books and authors, tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words, Breitbart News Senior Editor at large joel pollak on his book red november and thoughts on the 2020 democratic primaries and election. Hes interviewed by editor at large matt welsh. On monday labor day at 6 15 pm eastern, judy gold with her book yes i can say that. At 7 00 p. M. Alyssa coren and Jennifer Levitz on the College Admission scandal with her book unacceptable. 8 30 p. M. Wes moore. At 10 30 p. M. , retired admiral james cerritos on his book sailing true north watch booktv this Labor Day Weekend on cspan2. Be sure to watch the all virtual 2020 National Book festival live saturday, september 26 on booktv. Here are some of the current bestselling nonfiction books according to indy bound. Topping the list Pulitzer Prize winning author isabel work arson explores what she calls a hidden caste system in the United States. After that in too much and never enough president trumps niece mary trump takes a critical look at the president and his family. Followed by activist glenna doyles memoir untamed work toward building a more equitable society. Wrapping up our look at some of the bestselling nonfiction books according to indy bound is the splendid and the vile historian eric larson story of Prime Minister Winston Churchills leadership during the london blitz. Some authors have appeared on booktv and you can watch them online at booktv. Org. Today is august 4 2020 on may 5 of this year, we spoke with Janet Webster jones, the owner of sourcebooks sellers in detroit about how the shutdown has affected her business. Janet webster jones, give us an update five months into the covid pandemic. We have quite a lot to say this time, peter, thank you so much for having us on cspan, you all are so dear to our he