Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Homeland Security Hearing On Voting Security 20240712

The storm caused horrific damage in upended peoples lives but through perseverance hard work and unyielding oversight of the federal Disaster Response apparatus we built back at her. As a resident of the community affected by hurricane laura assessing damage to their homes they can rest assured that the community will hold a federal Emergency Management agency and its federal partners accountable by making sure they provide to help communities need to get back on their feet. A key lesson from Hurricane Katrina is that the initial response was hampered by the inept leadership of an inexperienced unqualified president ial Campaign Donor who had been appointed to head fema, the nations emergency manager. The hurricanes served as an important reminder that federal agencies should be led to experience people committed to the mission especially in times of crisis. Today the country is in crisis again and leadership for stalling the nations response. A Global Pandemic has crippled the nation. Its dramatically changing the americans lives in keeping hundreds of thousands of children out of school to hurricanes continue to batter coastal communities and while irs are ravaging the west coast. The midst of all of those a president ial election is rapidly approaching. During this time of crisis americans are depending on the Postal Service to deliver lifesaving prescriptions, essential goods and importantly election ballots. The president however is waging an attack on the Postal Service to serve his own political interests. For instance the president told the public that vote by mail is rigged, illegal or fraudulent over 100 times since march. Undeterred by the fact that hes been contradicted by the dhs and the intelligence community. The administration has refused to provide funding for the Postal Services needs to ensure it can continue to deliver for this nation over the longterm. The president openly acknowledge that he is depriving the Postal Service of additional funding. Because he is concerned that expanding voting opportunities will hurt the election and to make matters worse the Postal Service is now being led by a president ial Campaign Donor who does not even know how much it cost to mail a postcard. The postmaster general and the Postal Services own internal documents show these changes have slowed mail Service Across the country this summer. These changes could slow the delivery of alex during the fall election just as millions of americans are choosing to vote by mail for the first time to avoid possible exposure to covid19. [inaudible] the postmaster general has sent pauses Restructuring Plan in this refused to roll back changes that have already been implemented. Its time for the postmaster general to demonstrate to the American People that he is committed to the mission and fit for the challenges ahead in the Postal Service will do whatever it takes to get election mail delivered on time. We cannot afford to have another more than that the president will stop peddling disinformation that could suppress Voter Participation and undermine confidence in Election Results. It sets a bad tom. Just yesterday michigan secretary of state who is testifying before us today alerted voters to a racially charged robocall using lies to discourage minority voters from voting by mail. This must stop. We cannot allow disinformation to destroy our democracy. At the same time people who prefer to vote in person must have the opportunity to do so safely and securely. That means among other things there must be enough polling places that are easily accessible to all voters particularly low income voters who are less able to travel long distances to polling places. No one should be disenfranchised to cause it is too hard to get to a polling place or because the line is too long. Before a closer want to note that the house passed the heroes act and the delivering for america at last week. Both are essential to our elections this november and i urge the senate to act on them. With that i recognize the gentleman from alabama Ranking Member rogers for any Opening Statement he may have. Thank you mr. Chairman. Can you hear me . Yes, i can hear you. Versa want to congratulate representative mike garcia to the election to the committee. He flew over 30 combat missions during iraqi freedom. His experiences and wealth of knowledge will surely benefit us brett thank you for your continued service to our nation mr. Garcia. Mr. Chairman im disappointed we are holding this hearing today. We have no oversight or legislative role of the United States Postal Service for the committee of jurisdiction help the hearing on this topic earlier this week that the house rush through legislation over the weekend which leaves me wondering what we are doing here today. We have already held five Election Security hearings delving into jurisdictions such as infrastructure and cybersecurity threats. Based on todays testimony we wont be talking about actual Election Security. Its clear the only reason we are having this hearing is to the democrats crazy Postal Service conspiracy. Despite what the democrats say they postmaster general is not reallocate collection boxes put in place long ago before the current postmaster general took over. In fact under the Obama Administration over 12,000 collection boxes were removed and more than 80 mail facilities were closed. What of it democrats favor games these days is oppose anything that happens under president john babin when president obama did the same thing for the facts are the Postal Service the post office is more than capable of delivering ballots to voters and returning them to Election Officials in a timely manner. The problem is with post office is the post office explained in three separate layers to state Election Officials this year setting a realistic deadline for ballot requests and submissions could result in ballots not dating delivered in time to be counted complain the post office all you want but with states like new york mailing out over 30,000 ballots the day before the election not even superman could deliver them on time. The fact is theres no perfect way to vote to method poses risk for fraud and manipulation that vote by mail has the least secure method or is the least secure method for voting. Vote by mail requires sending ballots to every voter rather a not be voter request went through this is a tremendous pass protect Washington State state nearly 10 years to fully implement the system or one of the Biggest Challenges is assuring voting rolls and ballots were mailed out. If not light ballots will be sent to individuals who would not be eligible to vote voter may not even be alive for that matter. This is a real problem. Los angeles was told by a court to remove 1. 5 million active voters on the rolls. Nothing is done to ensure is received by the right coder. That is only exacerbated in states allowing ballots to returned to unmonitored drop boxes. Theres no way to ensure the chain of it only encourages fraud. We should also worry about the Staggering Number alex rejected by a vote by mail elections. In california this year for 100,000 vote by mail ballots were rejected. The Washington Post reported 534,731 ballots were disqualified in 23 states. Npr reports 55 five and 50 i felt in ballots were rejected in 30 states. All of these were vote by mail ballots but everyone is worried about making sure every vote counts should scary and should the scary that many states have procedures in place that enable ballots to be returned well after election day. In new york it took six weeks to certify the primary legend results for two of our colleagues would in california it currently takes over month to certify Election Results but how long would it take states to certify the results this november at how long but the americans wait to know who their president will be because of vote by mail issues . Delayed elections results present a prime opportunity to spread disinformation and undermine Public Confidence in election. The democrats truly want to ensure every vote counts and protect the integrity of our election process they should end this ridiculous postal conspiracy or they should work with us to encourage states to put in place real deadline for mailin voting pass laws that would prevent ballot harvesting and certify Election Results quickly and accurately. Mr. Chairman is important that every eligible american has the right to vote and responsibly to do so this november. For that i thank you and i yield back. I think the Ranking Member. The committee will operate according to the guidelines laid out by the chairman and Ranking Member in our july 8 khalid we pray now welcome our panel of witnesses prefers that like to welcome ms. Jocelyn benson was michigans 43rd secretary of state. If ms. Slotkin is on this call. Im here. I would like to recognize the gentlelady from michigan an inspection. Thank you mr. Chairman. I have the real pleasure of introducing a fierce champion for michigan voters secretary of state jocelyn benson. Secretary bentsen was sworn in in january of 2019 and she has really worked to hire leslie since then to protect michiganders right to vote and the integrity of our elections. Choose a marshall scholar and graduate of harvard law and expert on election law specifically but secretary ensign served as the dean is the law school in detroit where she was appointed the age of 36, the underscore minute history to lead an accredited law school protected terry benson has her career working to protect Voting Rights and voting integrity and goes back to her work advocating for the passage of help americans vote the issue is investigative journalist who worked for the Legal Defense fund. She is a cofounder of the Military Spouses of michigan to provide Important Services for Military Spouses and their children but secretary bentsen is infinitely familiar with this because shes a Military Spouse herself and something i hope she will address today. In 2012 her husband was serving in afghanistan and he had his own absentee ballot returned undeliverable. Im thrilled that secretary bentsen is here to share her expertise and her experience overseeing michigans elections and i look forward to her testimony. Thanks so much. Thank you very much. Next we have the president of the American Postal Workers Union since 2013. Apw represents more than 200,000 Postal Service employees and 1500 employees in the private sector mail industry. Next well hear from ms. Tammy patrick is Senior Adviser to the Elections Program and democracy fund. They lead an effort to foster voter centric election systems and provide a lot of officials with the tools and knowledge they need to best serve their voters. Finally we have Michael Adams the 77th secretary of state from the state of kentucky. I appreciate you joining us today. Without objection the witnesses full statement will be inserted in the record prevent now ask each witness to summarize his or her statement for five minutes beginning was secretary bentsen. Thank you chairman and thank you congresswoman slotkin for your very kind introduction. Chairman thompson and members of the committee of Homeland Security thank you for inviting me here today. Democracy is a team sport and every single one of us here can agree that we we want this election to be successful. We want to vote and we won their vote to be fully and equally acceptable to every voter. Dont the system to be secure and protected against any threats foreign and domestic and we want every citizen to have full faith that the Election Results are a full and complete reaction of the voting people. The coronavirus and did make along with what seems to be constant rhetoric and misinformation about our election has brought historic treasures on our bill is our ability. Yesterday was mentioned my office had to correct an unconscionable attempt to suppress voting through a robocalls targeting voters in the city of detroit that falsely threaten voting by mail with what voters personal information at risk for creditors one person and health agencies. But meet the challenge ahead of us we must and their solutions to ensure that we can. Im here today to talk about the solutions and to emphasize your partnership in the partnership of the u. S. Postal service is an important part of ensuring that success. Earlier this month we had a statewide primary in michigan that serves as a blueprint for running secure accessible elections during the covid19 pandemic could we learned its clear in the midst of a Global Pandemic people want to vote. More than 2. 5 million michigans civic and citizens voted in our michigan primary is the highest amount we have had in our state. Next citizens need to have a clear reliable option to vote early whether in person or by mail. In michigan more than 1. 2 million citizens are on election day. More partly this her pastor states previous record of 1. 3 million voters voting by mail prior to election day. He was in the 2016 general election for this dramatic increase underscored the importance of expanding absentee and early voting options to all citizens and ensuring they know exact he had exercised those options. Finally voters will have the choice to vote in person on election day without risking their health. Rather stay traditional places remained open for august primary. We did no consolidations and this will similarly be the case for november 3. Each was staffed by election workers which created trends statewide today recruited close to 10,000 election workers that are polling places were claimed, accessible and sanitize repeatedly throughout the day. Social distancing guidelines were eliminating the possibility of crowding and election workers make good use of the ppe and cleaning supplies that were bought with the federal cares act fund and provide turbi local jurisdiction are state greater primary success demonstrated proactive data driven planning and clubbers and at the state and local level supported by federal resources can result in successful elections this year. This is a good sign for november however the emerging challenges and efficient postal delivery with the United States Postal Service has created enormous uncertainties for citizens in our state forests safe and secure voting by earlier this year reprioritized ordination and communication with their Postal Service leadership at this led to numerous operational improvements for us and for them a true partnership. For example we redesigned our ballot envelopes to move as quickly as possible and remove there is free were also placing close to 1000 secure monitors, ballot drop fox is with clear procedures and protections in place regarding the custody of ballots throughout the state for voters to utilize to return their ballots. A wreck a number of citizens want to vote and vote by mail and nothing can truly replace the full utility of a functioning Postal Service so we hoped the federal government prioritizes fixing these issues or we face significant challenges come november. Again we are all in this together. A mock res is a team sport and weather data and experience in michigan shows if we put partisanship aside and Work Together Holding Elections that are secure accessible if we fight against miss them for taste misinformation is the picture to voters as possible and doable to run these elections securely and safely in november and are voters should demand no less from all of us for thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. Thank you very much for your testimony and now all recognized mr. Good after noon chairman thompson make a member roger semento committee. Im the president of the american postal workers. Our union represents 200,000 of the 630,000 dedicated postal employees who work to serve every community in the country each day. I thank you for the opportunity to share our perspective and the role of the public Postal Service that every vote counts. In this challenging time of the pandemic are right to vote our access to the ballot box depends on vote by mail. There has been an assault on absentee vote by mail. Its argued and not back postal workers are up to the task and the Postal Service has ample resources to safely and securely deliver every male daughter receives provided the states elections to their challenging jobs in extra challenging time since pandemic. We also know the increase in mail ballots is expected even if all 150 voters returned their ballots on a postal workers sort collect and deliver mail. We handle as many as 3 billion with a b cards and letters in a week. National mailings like the recent cdc coronavirus guidelines are your delivered without concern. The charge of vote by mail is fraudulent. Vote by mail is proven to be an incredibly safe method. More than five states conduct their elections entirely by mail princes 2000 more than 250 million votes and oregons 19 years of conducting all mail elections were the 100 million votes have been cast by mail with only a few cases of voter fraud, less than. Year. Its not only simply false but postal workers take her oath of office to preserve the sanctity of the mail. In our dna to treat the mail like its their own and election mail is even more of a sacred obligation to the postal worker. We have certainly had our differences. The postmaster general louis dejoy last week he did commit to investing resources for vote by mail. [inaudible] our union will hold the postmaster general to his word. We along with the other postal unions will participate in a joint task force of management to ensure members expertise is like the Postal Services plan to ensure that every ballot we receive is delivered safely securely and in a timely manner. In recent weeks much attention has been shown under the postmaster generals policies which have slowed down unions among the most local vocal critics of the changes we would let hundreds of demonstrations across the country and through service cuts and delays causing policies to reverse the Congress Passed the emergency covidrelated funding requests. We will continue to press on a nonpartisan basis congress to ensure that the country receives the Quality Service that deserves and not just during the election season and not just for the vitally important election mail but with respect to mailin voting for their message to the millions of voters who rely on the Postal Service this year its simple greater question of ballot are laid and return it quickly. We have the capacity and the commitment to get ballots through. If voters find them so short of the timeframe to vote by mel many states have important option of dropping a male ballot at secure election drop fox is privet that i thank you for the opportunity to share the commitment of the democratic process with you and i look forward to. Thank you very much for your testimony today now recognized ms. Patrick to summarize your statement for five minutes. Thank you for asking me here today to share with you how Election Officials have been preparing for the upcoming election the challenges they are facing a concerned that some of them have over whats happening into the new leadership of the United States Postal Service. I have been because i was concerned with what i saw what i was hearing. Voters are being told the machines were being hacked and the system is rigged and fraud was rampant. I was concerned because i saw turnout dwindling and that democracy slowly slipping away. In this moment for basic necessities of a democratic trust us came to my attention funding acquisition of sufficient polling places hiring a capable staff and poll workers and reliable postal deliveries all of which support secure and resilient elections. We do not a recent study by Auburn University of Election Center members found the election of their members average. 54 of the countys budget to these are some of the best offices in the country and they are barely 1 2 of 1 of the county budget. Federal funding does not bridge the gap or stabilize Election Administration to allow for consideration of improvements and modernization. Using a federal infusion federal funding far too often happens late in the election cycle but limits its effectiveness that although its shifted the focus to carry out a global election of Global Pandemic we must continue to invest in Election Security Infrastructure Resources and capacity to build on the progress thats been made since 2016. I started my career supervising the recruit the training of 8000 poll workers age election in maricopa county. The county hired hundreds temporary staff as warehouse personnel delivery drivers Voter Registration clerks and many of those positions just like the poll workers were retirees. Our tabulation facility was filled with processing boards of picture that every eligible ballot was authenticated process counted and was never done by Election Night begin 2020 those tables will need to be further apart but in 2020 many of those workers will decline to serve. In 2020 we are not out in the community providing voters with information as we would in normal election year. Instead we are more reliant on social media platforms and reaching voters on line. Long lines increase the opportunity for misinformation to cast doubt on the legitimacy fair election. Since the civil war ballots been entrusted to mail carriers for safely recover the past 10 years we have made Great Strides in fostering a collaborative relationship between Election Officials in the Postal Service and for tens of millions of American Voters their ballot is handed to us not by a poll worker but they are posted. We have seen usgs embrace the role and what i often refer to as delivering democracy but its just another envelope if someones ballot and its someones vote. We establish protocols for tracking of election mail drop the process increasing frequency as election day draws near with nightly all clear certifying all ballots are processed in on their way to the final destination for some of these efforts require overtime and some require late both of which a been called into question lately. Although the post mr. General made statements to clarify the situation is recent testimony there is still some confusion among postal employees and Election Officials and most importantly voters. Some will say its only delayed by one day but in many states when day is a day too late for the ballot to count. We know that every election there are directions of service hurricanes fires tornadoes and floods and we are in a Global Pandemic and we do not know where the next hotspot will be nor when it will hit. With our democracy depends on people and people can get sick. Ballots know that the voters in less than a month. Military and overseas voters will go in every state in the nation on september 19. We dont have much time. The runway is running out. The American Public is tired, frustrated grieving the loss of more than 180,000 souls. For voters who opted to vote impersonating you to options that do not cause them to have to choose between their health and ability to participate the need to be assured in this moment its safe and secure to vote by mail if that is what they choose. This moment they are voting booth may very well be their Kitchen Table their ballot talks their mailbox. In this moment they need to be reminded that they are voices will be heard and their vote counted. I look forward to answering any questions you might have. And thank you again for the opportunity. Thank you very much for your testimony. I want to recognize secretary adams to summarize for five minutes. You are muted, sir. It that done thousands of these in the past four and youd think id have that figured out. Mr. Chairman embers of the Committee Good afternoon. By Michael Adams secretary of state. I was sworn in genworth sixth of this year. Talk about hazing the new guy. Despite the challenges we face is here we have a good story to tell and i am glad to have the opportunity. On march 6 kentucky diagnosis first case of covid19 days later our governor and the bashar democrat and die republican of greed to delay kentuckys primary election for may 19 to june 23. Our legislature at my request came together across party lines and granted the democratic governor and republican secretary of state to join Emergency Powers and change our election message. The governor acted together to mick a change. It was obvious our election system was needed in our state usually 98 of voters vote in person on election day. The traditional model is not wellsuited for todays challenges. We had the good fortune to vote after several estates and we learn from their experiences positive and negative. Flexibility give us time to monitor those developments. The biggest benefit of legislators of both parties giving executive Branch Officials of both parties the ability to make changes was that the new rules were fair. We avoided the brinksmanship we have seen in other states. We fashioned clear rules well in advance of election big as we consistently message to inform and reassure voters. Why partisanship not only lead to a better product with concerns of both sides accommodated but also showed voters on both sides that are new election rules were legitimate. We made sure those outside of her state knew how to run our election better than we did. Whether hollywood new yorker here in congress to put out all send hateful tweets that riled up citizens of other states to jam our phones with obscene calls and even death threats. Everything they predicted would happen was just flat wrong and they should all be ashamed. We had a huge voter turnout and can covid19 cases. Michael adams is surpassed, i would rather you give us none at all of the offending means that youre going to tell us how to run our elections. In our state without the made the most sense in primary was no absentee voting. Is it a severe drop off in the number of available poll workers and voting locations. Theyre expected normal double that the primary you are tightening the absentee standards are much. Through the age of Health Concerns and also the overwhelming infrastructure. In category two process the balance in a postal systems. In those elections we utilize absentee ballot request. And to our drivers license database so that we can identify voter identity. And also with barcodes and signature match everything would be for the ballot is counted. The four primary and general elections, offer weeks of early in person votes. If of the get contestants of both parties want to put but in president they can. We know how to connect in person voting safely. Although i support absentee ballots for those who need it, its taking the pressure off election day. Having more election days also splits of the crowds, facilitate social distancing. The Silver Lining the pandemic primary is that its the voting equipment into some of our counties were prior equipment did not allow for paper trails. It was due to the dollars that you appropriated in december. Otherwise it would have never been possible. We use those funds strategically. To have counties new scanners and other equipment usable for processing absentee ballots. Paper ballots prayed for me the Gold Standard is paper ballots counted electronically so that we get the speed of the quick cash for the security of a paper trail. It was a goal of mine of this decade to introduce paper balloting to every county but now it will take nearly that long. Their work cut out for us. Im grateful to congress for coming together through that the states could run our elections in a difficult time. I would encourage you to do so again. Not at the expense of any strings attached, redtape, or direction of how to run the elections. Then under federal constitution, our pets to the state and us, the officials. Thank you. I think all of the witnesses for their testimonies. Ill remind the subcommittee that we will have five minutes to question the panel. In a now recognized myself for questions. The Ranking Member from his comments that the committees oversight jurisdiction directs the committee to review on a continuing basis of government activity. The Homeland Security rating the true elections, free from disinformation campaigns are integral parts of the Homeland Security. Moreover, the United States Postal Service is a critical component to the Critical Infrastructure in this committee is responsible for that Critical Infrastructure. All of us on this committee, our elected officials, we have seen elections conducted in our communities time and time again. By excellent local officials. We see elections and local responsibility. We trust those individuals. In another President Trump has repeatedly made baseless allegations and spread misinformation about voting by mail. In fact in july, and appalling tweet that we delay the American Election because of the socalled risk of voting by mail. Ironically, we know that the president both by mail. The first lady votes by mail, the postmaster general testified that he plans to vote by mail as he is done for many years. Ms. Patrick to be clear, is there any meaningful difference between absentee voting and vote by mail. It. I think there is a lot of confusion around that mr. Chairman. In the vast majority of the state, it is one and the same. Some previously called it absentee voting in the change their statute to refer to it as vote by mail. Theres a handful of states that made a subtle distinction between absentee and but by mail. And sometimes that distinction is whether or not a voter unwitnessed or the other permanently gets of ballots mailed to them or whether they need to make a request for every election. So when we hear about it in the national lansing, it is almost commonly referring to the exact same process of a ballots being mailed out to a voter in the voter having options and how they would like to return there valid. Thank you. I understand that michigan has approved universal vote by mail in your experience, is vote by mail uniquely prone to fraud. Thank you for the question prayed and no, we actually have now conducted three elections this year alone with the full right to vote by mail. And with more vote by males than ever before. It is a signature standard that we have in place to ensure that signatures are matched on the envelope in which the ballot to the signature that we have on file ensuring that we have the check in place so that we can find and investigate irregularities if and when in the course. And to check the process but notably the evidence shows primarily the people want to vote by mail. And theres no evidence of fraud or irregularities. Rep. thank you very much. Secretary adams, new york sure been there, have you found much fraud in vote by mail. Or the absentee process. Sue and mr. Chairman, im very pleased to say that our election this year was clean. I did have some concerns about going from about 2 percent absentee housing which is about 75 percent. Protocols in place to make sure that we did not have vote fraud. We formed a task force with federal and state partners prayed supervised the problem spot. Insurgents parts of our state that has asserted history of shenanigans. So we were very vigilant grade we surveilled it tightly. And we had a clean election. Rep. so as far as you are concerned, those local officials that you talked about, if left to their own devices, they will probably design a system to the extent that is broad free. Michael adams will yester i will say this, number when i have confidence in all of my colleagues of both parties in a position. Some have different models of what election date looks like. And i like what we have, but better than what they have but i think theyre all people of integrity and held accountable by the voters to have a fair election. I think local control is best. It enables us to Design System that meets our specific needs. And with respect to fraud, we have typed protocols. Here in kentucky as a reference in my testimony. Week required the voter to apply for the ballots. We run that through database nature all of the information is correct and then track the ballots with barcodes. Then we match everything a one prayed and these best practices that we have seen other states do. To be clear, voting in person is is the Gold Standard. But where you need times, and weve got to acclimate to those unique times. Rep. thank you very much. In a few minutes. [inaudible]. In a few minutes i have let them thank you and the members for all you have done. For nations Postal Service. The Postal Service is a good public good and in the rural areas like the one i represent and where i live, it is truly an essential lifeline. How has the president s efforts to politicize the Postal Service, the institutions. Michael adams it has 91 percent favorability rating. Throughout the political spectrum, someone identified this is republican and democrat or green or whatever. So when they top official of the land, calls the Postal Service a joke, and their withholding really funds that the post office will not be a success in serving the people of the country and vote by mail. In the package rates should be raised four times would be detriment to every single consumer in this country. In every single retailer. It undermines the peoples confidence. And presses postal workers in the frontlines and especially the front lines essential workers in this pandemic. It is an insult and also paves the way for privatization. That is the agenda of this white house. Not hearing this from me. This is in the management budget report from 2018. But to the private processes, and has two, we have 91 percent of Approval Ratings pretty have to break that box. The people will never allow something they feel so strongly about. And the way you try to break that down as you degrade so it doesnt work. Rep. at the moment we are hearing people all over the country. The resort quickly. Rep. thank you and i think all of our witnesses for being here today. I never recognize Ranking Member of the committee the gentleman from alabama. Mr. Rogers for questions. Think you mr. Chairman. As you know i both have talked about and express our frustrations for years about in the 16 years that we have been on this committee. We do not have the broader picture we should have. And i be thrilled if we had the jurisdiction they describe earlier and i respect the discrete the way of any jurisdiction whatsoever of the topic and having said that mr. Adams, you heard the secretary describe how in person voting is safe. Because of the distancing and sanitation. Do you find it in person voting is unsafe in kentucky. Sue and nestor. A very proud we had hundreds of thousands of people vote in person in kentucky and we had no spike in cases pray to be have had a spike coming after the fourth of july Holiday Weekend read we had a new plateau. But now im very proud of the fact that the in person voting was safe. We did that by offering election day voting at vote centers for any person the county could go vote. If relatively free. But we also had two weeks of poll voting prayed to space out the crowds and have social distancing. Very proud to say that we can repeat that. We will have a lot more people voting in november. Im proud that we had about 21 percent. I think we will have 72 percent in november. An overwhelming, are low capacity absentee ballots brady going to run down absentee ballots. I think we have to have in person voting also. I feel that opinion not just from republicans to be through the mail system but also from a lot of democrats. [inaudible]. Michael adams i think all things being in person, voting in person is profitable. I will say that we had that i have seen, in my reading of history or otherwise, any sort of mass conspiracy, a wide election since the 40s. We still do have election fraud. His inner minutes in intensity and local places. Usually county executive race or mayor race brady of small jurisdiction. And you got paper bids on the other side of it. It happens to small towns that sometimes. Mostly the eastern part of the states prayed with those instances, you see every once in a while and those are easier to catch. If you but in person voting. Because your supervising the voting. And so all things being equal, that certainly my preference. When my grandparents, are still alive in their in their 80s they want to vote in the nervous about going out and doing that in person right now. Rep. thank you. [inaudible]. And on su between absentee ballot voting and universal voting. In alabama, my home state, in order to vote absentee, you have to request a ballot. My understanding and up until this election we had about 12 Different Reasons that you could vote absentee. But in this year during the pandemic, theres no reason necessary. If you want to vote absentee, just because your remotely worried about being exposed to the virus you can vote absentee. How does it differ from universal. My understanding that the universal voting that everybody in the voting rule. [inaudible]. Pretty. Its a question of semantics. I often talked about vote by mail as an evolution. Every state in the country started out with there being required for absentee voting and then what is happened over time is that the excuses either growing number and eventually get remote and you have no excuse to absentee. If youve kept that no excuse absentee terminology others would change it to say vote by mail. What is happened in the next stage in the evolution is that very often the voting population tends to like to vote by mail or absentee. And then jurisdiction gets overwhelmed with all of the applications. I thumbs my home state of arizona when i went to a local election official there. We have a lot of people in every time they send an application particular for states or has to be for every election pretty and this in the primary election and the Election Officials been overwhelmed with all of these applications coming in. I was going to study and it turns out that each one of those applications and some costing around a dollar for processing, for postage, so every one of those applications is a cost associated with that. And year after year we had the same voters are sending in the same applications. So then states move to a permanent absentee list. And thats where my former state of arizona since right now with 60 to 70 percent of the motors on apartment list. In the other states then go to that final stage of all male selections. So in this moment, universal but by mail is a phrase that is being used to quite frankly has never been part of this. I worked in the eac voting voluntary system guidelines in the glossary of those documents for years. It is never been referred to as universal but by mail elections. And so in this moment where were seeming to redefine phrases that are being used as though there is a definite distinction across all states. And fortunately, that is just not the case because you do have states where they have both. They call it absentee voting your 65 years or older or have a permanent disability. And on a permanent list or they call it vote by mail if you send in an application to vote in a specific election. So unfortunately we have so many different terms. Some of those terms are used for the same process. And some of the processes, is different terms in a given state. Rep. the concern that ive got his eye was the county commissioner back in the 80s. And unfamiliar with the processes. And with always had problems try to keep them clean up. People will die. And its just a perpetual and continues to be. And i worry if we have. [inaudible]. My time has expired. Thank you very much. Mr. Pain. Thank you mr. Chairman and i appreciate the opportunity to be here. In addition to accepting voteinballots, many elections offer to give the voters the opportunity to return the balance into the drop boxes. More ways to return the phallus but have concerns about the security of the ballot boxes. The responsible the elections advice on both physical and security and app several times documented related to collections this year. The secretary vincent and adams, if any, have since then provided you about the security vulnerability with ballot drop boxes and how to mitigate them. Thank you congressman. And they mentioned that nearly a thousand drop boxes across the state of michigan. [inaudible]. Failing to meet the needs this year. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. Are drop boxes. [inaudible]. Many are located typically enter surveillance in some locations. We also have to answer used to safe question, when regular communication with them. And often times it is a reactive communication where they are staying with us information that we or they hear us and the know about spray to our partnership with mrs when that is very reluctant in her communications have been significant. I am sure that if they have any threat to both threats. They will share them with us. Thank you rep. I was a second everything the secretary said. Regarding the system of the drop boxes. I will at this. Historically we have about 2 percent of the voters vote absentee. There really hasnt been a demand for drop boxes. Theyre expensive, about 2000 apiece for the like tanks. So its an expense that we have not invested in it historically. But i glee that the demand for drop boxes in my primary, came from the republicans. I was a little dubious that we could get this done without a big firestorm but actually is the republicans that wanted the drop boxes. A lot of republicans are comfortable applying for absentee ballots and voting in home safely. In this million back. Or they want the personal satisfaction of dropping in the minute know its there. We actually found there was a greater likeness of the gop side oside. We have certain protocols. Back the primary will only gave each county a certain amount of them and put them in the clerks offices. Or inside of a government building. Looking back, i think maybe that was a little bit too restrictive. Because sometimes they had limited hours prayed and we try to avoid people and doors. And so in november were going to have to have more drop boxes and have an outdoor sprain we will have them under Continuous Monitoring by government officials to make sure theres no hankypanky with them. But these things are more secure than to boxes pretty no boxes are pretty secure. These things are no boxes and then some. Rep. you have to unmute yourself. Hi. I have to tell you, ive been frustrated when we continually at the Opening Statement mr. Chairman, you continually think about just every time you bash President Trump. I would actually like to try to get some bipartisan stuff done. Its just frustrating to me. I have to ask a question for clarification from ms. Patrick. Ms. Patrick, i understand you to say that when mr. Rogers asked you a question about the difference between the requested developed versus universal male in ballot which would be that every registered voter received a vote by mail. You said something to the fact this i misunderstood you that we just have these permanent which basically as you know in arizona, if i wanted to be on that list isaac voter request to be on that list. Not just automatically sent a mail in ballot. But every registered voter does get mailed, they did not requested. It is washington, oregon, utah, colorado and hawaii grade so can you clarify your statement please. Gasoline im sorry, thank you for bringing that up. What i was meaning to more clearly define is that some states say vote by mail even if you need to submit an application. As to it is a permit application to get endless, or whether it is basically an application for a vote by mail valid. So if you take a place like florida, you apply for every election that you want to get the ballot. But they call it absentee ballots or vote by mail. There are states, your home state of arizona, many localized elections for more than a decade have been all mail elections at the county level just out of the state. Thank you for clarifying because there is a concern i think what President Trump is saying that there is a concern that all registered voters would be automatically mailed the ballot versus requesting one. Which is found in arizona. We been doing in arizona for years. And like the other bacteria state said that they check the signature but i guess im going to ask the kentucky secretary of state, dont you think there is a risk of voting every Single Person on the registration list a ballot. If they know about in your statement in our state, certainly the voting rolls are updated so you will have people them so registered an old address. You can have people that have died that have not been taken off of the role. Its often a little bit difficult to get the name off of the role because i think in arizona, so the law when person has to get it like three times, mailed to them and the person that receives it says no, this verse present on here anymore. That is my question to you. There is a big difference from my perspective in kentucky versus the universal vote by mail system bert versus the vote by ballot. If your name is in the government database, they mail them one. So again i have confidence in my colleagues, i think their peoples integrity but thats me, for kentucky would not be a good system. One of the issues that i ran on this position last year given that role cleanup after the campaign it came out that we had about 2000 people. Out of the 4 million registered voters of people who have either moved away, passed away or had been put away. Sometimes the numbers would lowball this part of our election agreement. The governor i responded to everybody on the voter file pretty and we got so many back undeliverable. So were in the process of moving those people in the time. As we reduce so by law. In kentucky would be a nightmare. I would not advocate that read. [inaudible]. Thank you. Frustrating to me. We are already past, the democrats are a passive post office bill. And here we are almost a week later, last saturday and we are doing this almost a week later in a committee the doesnt even have jurisdiction. To me this does not make sense. And i yield back. Tanks. Rep. i read into record responsibility for this committee. Your concerns are noted. Everything that i said about the president , came out of his mouth. So im only repeating what President Trump has said pretty and if you dont like what i repeat, then you need to tell the president not to say it. As long as he said, im going to repeat it. The chair recognize the gentle lady from new york. Thank you mr. Chairman. In 2016, you saw just how easily a hostile Foreign Government can wreak havoc by using social media to spread disinformation. And doubt and cynicism about the democratic process. Including by trying to make people believe there votes wont count. Here we are four years later that there are still hostile Foreign Governments doing the very same thing. Unfortunately we are hearing this similar kind of misinformation and disinformation outright lies directly from the oval office from the president himself rated you said yourself, you been on the receiving end of President Trumps twitter attacks. Against vote by mail. And then he filed another one. But my question is, how do you address the issue of dealing with the misinformation and disinformation to the people that you represent specifically, how are you able to convince voters that this process is legitimate and that vote is going to count reading and matter. Youre right, the challenges this year is like never before are attempt of the voters mind. Youre noting, Homeland Security, there is real in my view, connections at work to be doing the work that you all do in that protecting the security of our elections is critical this year as it has ever been. Weiner infrastructure and making sure our boats are roles are secure. And weve increase the security of conducting postelection audits. We are now piloting and implementing statewide which of course confirms that the machine counts of the ballots are accurate predict and infrastructure security, really have been wrapping up efforts in the different departments of Homeland Security operating in that feeds into our work as a voter, from about the integrity of our elections. In the bottom line for me is that this year, the results of our elections in michigan and ugly nationwide will will be accurate reflection of the role of the people prayed our elections will be secure. With the unknown is, the challenges ensuring that everyone knows that. Regardless of who they voted for it that will have faith that the end of the day, that the system will catch them correctly. And select, come from domestic and foreign forces. This year more than ever before. What we have done is a number of things in part, constant communication with her colleagues out of states. That none of us, we are all dealing with this together. Its a bipartisan collaboration. Im really proud to be part of this. Secondly, we have established michigan. Gov Election Security. It will keep uptodate pushing back on every rumor or piece of disinformation. Collectively also putting information that gives confidence that we are on in our system is secure. And we have 1500 local jurisdictions all running election actually help to eliminate the possibility of any type of massive statewide efforts to impact the security of the system. That said, we all have a role to play. We all have a role to play. You all have a role to play. In sending out that information. The instructed messengers with that information. On social media and otherwise. That is why we partnered with professional athletes, Business Leaders and other influencers to help us get that information out. That will reach the voters and push back against the rhetoric is only going to increase in the weeks ahead. And delivered trusted information about the security of the vote. Thank you. Secretary adams. You mentioned something that brought me back to what happened here in new york. My home state. Under primary day back in june. Because of the pandemic, more people take advantage of voting by mail because it did not feel safe going to vote in person as a result, i dont think that we were prepared. We didnt have the appropriate infrastructure in place to be able to get the votes as quickly as possible. So there were some races number to called for, in six eight weeks. Which of course feeds into the president misinformation, disinformation about if we cannot call in the election on Election Night, the 90s were the result comes thereafter is necessarily fraudulent and right. So just asking because you mentioned evelyn in her testimony or one of your questions that you had like a quadruple fold of mail in ballots because of the pandemic. If you could talk about ways that you short of your infrastructure, your your election infrastructure to ensure that you can get encounter every vote and do it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Michael adams yes thank you. We did a few things that were new and unique pray to be allowed the local officials to processing absentee ballots was earlier. Announcing the results of course but running them through the machine. Take about a month to get them all if we had started earlier. So we let them start earlier. It intimates a good week to get all the ballots counted but it even wouldve been longer without thats pretty we also invested new equipment that we used. That you all give us in december in masseys care tax dollars. To provide scanners the focus partners so that is our counties could get up to speed. They had 29 counties on a took office, that had all. Having a paper trail and selecting i think were pretty close and this year will have every county up to speed and having that capacity. Something unique compared to the primary is the absentee ballot requested earlier but also closing in earlier pretty well he had about a month back in the primary because of the present the time. If they developed assimilate for the primary. When about a month to those absentee ballots requested an out and early voting at the same time. It was a real crunch. This time were doing it in stages. We opened up our portal for requests. About a week ago and were going to close it in early october and then that will enable those to be processed and our county course to give them three weeks of in person voting. So were not getting a double whammy at the same time. So we will have six weeks of availability for absentee ballots. And then we pivoted too early in voting. So i think my transitioning thats way, we can handle the demand. We had too many absentee ballots cast, we could be concerned about the capacity to process them. Let alone the Postal Service to manage them. I think we have it handled. [inaudible]. Rep. thank you very much. The gentleman from new york pretty. It is good to see everybody again. Ms. Benson and mr. Adams, lets focus on the response. [inaudible]. We do a series in washington, under the roundtable in new york state. We learn from the roundtable is that election, inundates with information and only able to appropriately appreciate the importance of the directive. A woman with parttime and the board of elections, one of the 62 counties interstate, said she had 1672 directives. Shes now inside of the security, electronic and the person she works with on her Computer System has many other tasks within the county. So based on that, the woman a chart 011. Someone is trying to get a feel in establishing the funding. Basically sharing of the it and focusing on the the security election. And just help me with the Technical Support as well. I just wanted to try to give feel give people an idea of wh what, do you statement fancy similar things with disinformation and. [inaudible]. Thank you yes. I think again, in our view. All partnerships are key. There is no rule. Withholding of information are partisan agendas when it comes to making sure our elections are acceptable and secured that is my approach. For us, we talk regularly and partner with the 1500 local Election Administrators but the 1500 throughout the state of michigan, more investment, the more we can invest in their election infrastructures. Through the support of federal funding. I do believe the standards are important as well at that the federal government has every right to say they will accept these guidelines. Its actually worked quite well in the past. With the american help contacting other elections of funding. The said, i completely support the concept of cyber navigators. And with other state agencies to evaluate and improve infrastructure read the more effectively will be doing that. Great. Thank you. Michael adams thank you rep. I would like to take a look at your but i think it sounds like a great idea. Its natural we about here in kentucky. The navigators the cyber navigators. We have a centralized election system. You have to tell people, we have a hundred and 20 elections. Hundred 20 counties with their own Election Officials. This people response ability for the task and ultimately, their election system is only as good as the local cybersecurity. And so ive encouraged our county clerks to work very directly. I tried to build those relationships between the federal government and the local government. I do know they sent out a lot of information. If you get three emails day, and this one is a big deal. But they do a great job. I do think it would be helpful if we had some folks available. It i think to do travel the circuit in and the countys font spring i traveled around my state campaigning i saw that some of the folks offices didnt have secured wifi. The thing is been improved since then. But i do have concerns occasionally also metaphysical plan the sum of our county post office, theyre in old courthouses. Built in the 1800 sometimes. And just not designed for security. The windows that sort of thing. There might be access and to be clear, weve reviewed all of this. We feel like were in a good position. s. [inaudible]. 1600 people responded. I think you agree. Contemplating doing this, having people that they only work with you. And theyre yours. You hire them. But they help monitor your systems in the digest what they are saying. And how to better secure your systems. We do a lot of talking. We had a robust discussion on the real big concern down the road is are we going to have attacks from the russians. The district our services. I asked him to take a look at this. As picking up steam. Im running out of time. We will if i can mention that with our past federal security, we were able to hire a fulltime Election Security director for the first time in our state. Is responsible for working directly with our local counties. And their infrastructure, their website and the security. So additional support. They will help us get even more efficient in that regard and will take a look at the legislation. Thank you. Thank you very much. Rep. the gentlemans time has expired. Gentleman from california. Thank you mr. Chairman for holding this most important during. Can you hear me okay. Can you hear me. Yes. Thank you very much. Wanted to follow up on some of the mr. Catechins comments and i have a question directed at secretary benson and adams. And as you know, russian interference in the 2016 election is well documented. An attempt to influence our election and 21 states actually were breached by cyber attacks. So my question about secretaries is are you seeing any repeat of the 2016 elections with russian cyber attacks. Cyber problems of your systems today. Michael adams would not been breached but there has been rustling of our doorknob list for that way. You want to get too specific. Were getting knocked at the door. And thats exactly right. And so i appreciate the point that youre making rep. All of our other problem such as go away because we have this other problem. We still have to keep our eye on the other balls and cybersecurity being one of them. Jocelyn benson all just add, they been consistently monitoring of partnership with our local governments. In the federal authorities. For potential risk and weve increase the security and implemented state wide artists rated in a Security Task force with National Experts including rep. From federal government to help with how to increase the security systems. We have not encountered our neighbors other states, may have any significant attempts at the state level or a local level to interfere with our system that we are 60 days out and a lot can happen in the 60 days. The bottom line for us as we are prepared. And also to publicize it and raise awareness about us and the people know the facts and evidence of what happened exactly what we did of any potential attack and a protector system. Were preparing to identify any attacks before they occur. I feel confident that we will. Another question to both of you. This morning, as i was driving to work, hard story on the radio that Nursing Homes of the seniors at the Nursing Homes are concerned they may not be able to have their votes counted because they rely on vote by mail exclusively to them. And it dealt to myself and i said what about our service men and women around the world that awesome vote by mail. What assurances are there. What steps are you taking to make sure that the seniors in our Service Members have the votes and we see them counted. At your local respective states. Thank you very much. Speech of that such an important question on both fronts. In the bottom line is we are doing everything we can administratively within rt 60 statutory and to be sure and ensure our seniors on our military and other people that are counted but we have some challenges panel talk about thats pretty for Senior Citizens making sure that at the drop boxes are accessible. And there available to those who may not feel comfortable returning the ballasted mail they are important. And identifying particular communities is important. And also protecting them from outside into visuals coming in during this moment in the pandemic. We also had to move locations that were in Senior Citizens. We done that proactively both mt cases pretty to ensure that they can still access their votes either through the mail are voting early or in person. Choices are so important. And to military and overseas voters. And personal experience with it. Im a Military Spouse. Michigan ballots can be electronically delivered to oversee voters but must be returned via u. S. Mail. I call in our state legislator to change that and allow the electronic return. From military members overseas. From the spouses and dependents in particular pretty but were waiting. We need them to act. Is critical. In this year the particular challenge where we have already heard from numerous voters overseas, that there serving the military are other reasons. We cannot access the mail due to this pandemic. So for them, we are working to find other options but nothing really is a substitute for the action that we need from the state legislature to enable our overseas voters to easily return the ballot. Through a secure electronic method. Many states already allow. So my hope is that we get changes there. Bourassa looking for other avenues in the next few weeks to ensure that we are working with this particular vote. Thank you very much. We recognize gentleman from pennsylvania for five minutes. Thank you chairman thompson and Ranking Member rogers. This is a question i think were going to direct specifically to secretary adams and secretary benson. What is the common law of kentucky in the state of michigan, what is it done to clean up your voter rolls to instore the balance of being sent out who are truly eligible voters in secretary adams, ill ask you to answer first place. Michael adams its an issue that i ran on very seriously. Its important to move this as quickly as i can but also to remember part of what i got from that for my slide was a much prompter, much more Aggressive Movement towards compliance. But while that requires us to keep her voter roleplaying, i should say Democratic Congress in as an issue to keep her voter rolls up to date. So part of what we did is we did a mailing is provided for us in the national Voter Registration act, informing voters of the new options by absentee ballot or by dropbox are male or early in person on election day. Annette gave us a way to inform the public would also give us a way to give notices back for people for removal from the role so that Something Else that we did. Part of that agreement was the people that are identified having return postcards, get a letter for me it explains under our criminal law in kentucky, to knowingly version and more than one state. Those letters are on aspirated taking people off the roles. With the written consent. We are removing people we confirm that passed away. Working with the democratic governor my state did so between the partnership, and also actively seeking out and finding people who have moved pretty get their consent to remove them. Weve made progress. Recently we took off more dead voters than we had like voters. Pretty amazing to see. Thank you. [inaudible]. I think we can move on from the deceased voters. Thats a very important part of the state selection pretty sector events and predict joy to us in this as well pretty. Jocelyn benson yes a web. Hearing michigan, we believe that good healthy election and ministration is about making it easier to vote in harder to teach. In the efforts that we implemented to clean up our voter rolls when took Office Electronic Registration Information center. That partnership which is a collaboration on the majority of states using the now 30. Enables us to be in constant and frequent communication to track individuals through mail im sorry, who moved to other states and perhaps register there. And enables us to update our records accurately. Similarly enables us to proactively identify and remove voters was they have been deceased. Her critical and secondly, what weve done is implement automatic Voter Registration. When within a sentence of not only made it much easier than ever before. For requires us that everybody comes to our office to get a license or id or update, we checked their Voter Registration record and we can increase the accuracy of her voter rolls daily now. On one of the most interesting and unexpected side effects of implementing this that we date it allowed to consistent daily across the state confirm or update or correct any errors in her Voter Registration records of may have accumulated over the years. In the single we did it and this is important, the first time in nine years, we did a statewide mailing. My colleague from kentucky has emphasized that another college as well, is key to also in addition to what it was talk about making sure that what we are identifying accuracies. So statewide willingness was conducted. Mailing to every registered voter of information on how to vote by mail an application braided. Rep. and pointed her duck enter up to. Secretary adams, we know that in new york, over 30000 ballots were mailed to voters, just a day before the june primary. What are you working to do to make sure that the ballots are mailed out sooner so that youre not scrambling as the election approaches. Michael adams for our normal default of in order to request an absentee valid up to seven days before the election, and they have a week to send back. So we changed that we actually have a deadline of midnight of october 9th for the voter to request next day out. In case other than the case of personal medical emergency, so we have an earlier cut off to apply for the ballots. That also gives as flex ability to get that after. [inaudible]. Illinois five minutes. Ms. Underwood. Thank you mr. Chairman. The preservation of our republic so the covid19 pandemic, the flexibility and how, when and where people vote. As they make colleagues have said over and over, no one should be forced to choose between exercising the constitutional rights. So important to make sure that americans can vote from home and trust the ballots will be delivered in an accountant. In addition to many other essential functions of delivering medicines to 80 percent of the veterans received their medicine through the mail, its an important part of our infrastructure. A wellfunctioning Postal Service is more important than ever for holy a statement and a successful this fall. Some people might not know all of the ways the postal workers are involved in our electoral process process. [inaudible]. By functioning Postal Service is safe. Thank you congresswoman. From the standpoint of the postal workers, we touched the mail and all aspects. Severe delivering mail, to be most homes and that often goes through sortation facilities. It will go to care units prayed came into your home. The tape. So clerks and letter carriers, they are all touching mouth. And take that responsibility. We treated it as if it were our own and on the other side, and then someone else back that valid. If somebody may bring into a post office and drop it in the box at the post office are given to them and incorporated somebody may drop in a dropbox in the neighborhood. For in their own mailbox in the letter carrier will pick it up. Then he could be put into the system operated that way it goes back into the processing plant. And there the postal workers are trained to give the ballots priority. If its designed well, very noticeable, the mail can be identified to make sure is pulled out of the system. Some states, the workers have to put a special stamp on anothers are predated that all has to be processed. So were involved with the processes. Thank you. Its clear that the usps is a leading role to play in the selection. So thats why im so disappointed that this administration has taken on an effort to underline the essential service with operational changes that threaten democracy in itself. So glad that the mr. Louis dejoy pretty. It is organized with the order they travel the route. But now she said the sorting machines have been taken out of service. So that mail has to be sorted by hand. A savage estimate sorting the mail manually takes about ten times as long as it used to take the machines, which she said could be sultan delivery delays of two days or more. Is it correct that mail delivery Northern Illinois could be delayed by two days or more, what impact would that have on our states ability to count every ballot . Thank you so much for the question represented underwood. I included figure in my testimony that speaks directly to this issue. Because we have the stand up talks in the postmaster general, there is a directive saying no overtime. No late trips. We in fact then at a polling of voting equipment. Though some of these activities have happened in the past is a change in tone and the transparency of what is behind changing some of these things. And so i asked one of my colleagues the figure that shows all of the ways in which it can delay pretty can be delayed by one day if a carrier is to the end of their routes and their shift is ending, do they leave the ballots and the remaining mailboxes . Or are they able to go get them . If in fact they complete the route of the truck is at the mail Center Getting ready to go off to the processing plants, do they wait for them or not . It we have seen reporting in the last couple of days of the trucks are not waiting in trucks or leaving empty. This is not a very good policy to implement just a month before ballots are being mailed. And has me very concerned. I share your concern, thank you, mr. Chairman for this hearing. I yield back. Thank you very much for the chair recognizes mr. Garcia from california for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chair. I thank you all, this is my First Committee hearing it is an honor to be here. Want to thank Ranking Member for the kind introduction. Look, i just want to start with maybe a comment to go into a few questions. I think ill first want to say fully support the letter carriers in our country. The United States Postal Service as a Tremendous Service for our nation. In many cases the folks out there delivering our mail are also veterans. Folks who have served on the front lines. For clear they continue to serve on the front lines delivering our mail. Most cases in a timely fashion in the midst of this covid environment. I am a staunch supporter. My uncle was one for more than 30 years. I understand the value the service brings. This last peace of legislation, 25 billiondollar peace of legislation was not whats needed for our letter carriers but i support overtime i think the carriers in the nation the benefits of the overtime. This bill does not allow them to make the changes necessary to truly protect our letter carriers in this covid crisis. I will just extend the fact that while we also, we can support the carriers and the u. S. Postal service and voting against his latest bill they are not mutually exclusive. And i look forward to more meaningful legislation in the future that actually does help the u. S. Postal service carriers. With that i will pivot to the election elements of this. I just went through a special election and may work for hundred 23000 ballots were sent out the selfaddressed stopped envelopes. We had over 90 of those ballots actually returned through the mail. Or around 90 of the votes counted were through the mail. Until i am not necessarily too concerned about the inability of the post office to get the balance out and returned. What is more alarming to me, and i think this will echo what my colleague from pennsylvania, representative joyce was getting at, is that especially here in the state of california, the update and frequency of updates to the registration role is anemic. Just prior to my election, unfortunately after the 2018 election, the state of california removed about 1. 5 to 1. 8 million dead voters or voters who were removed from california to other states. This is a huge number. So i guess my question is, what that ended up doing before the removal of those dead voters and folks who had moved, was allowed in l. A. County alone about 112 of our population to be registered as voters. That makes no sense for those in the method allows that. There is no law to tolerate that. I guess the question is, what is at the root cause of our inability at the state level to ensure we are refreshingly registration rolls in a timely fashion. Not after elections, but before elections. With enough lead time its being sort of baked into the election on the state before the ballot actually goes out. I guess secretary benton we can talk to you and go from there pretty realize youre not representing california but its a nationwide issue. Yes, thank you congressman. The three things ive noticed about what weve done in michigan with frequent mailings with automatic Voter Registration and joining eric. I dont believe in you can correct me, i dont believe california is a part of eric. I dont know the details around that. But that is certainly been key in helping us continue to update our rolls in collaboration with other states because people are hopeful. When there is a national change of address i just got confirmation alford is not part of eric. Too that is something i would recommend it certainly helps us. As well as mailings and the other things i talked about. The other things i mentioned was the 112 registered bird we have to be careful part will be found michigan looking into those numbers is what we are comparin comparing. Meaning if were using old census data that may be undercounting a community and carried that to actual Voter Registration numbers we could get a mismatch all of us comparing apple storage urges. That does not accurately work with the percentage of eligible voters registered to vote. I would offer that as well. Being a part of eric has been a key part of our ability to improve consistency the accuracy of her role. Okay thank you im out of time id love to get the specifics on that and maybe we can help out the beautiful state of california to get on board with modern technology. Spinning your time has expired i recognize the gentle lady from michigan for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I took sort of the part of my question which was great. Im just concerned as an army wife in an army stepmom, we have got over 200,000 uniformed military serving overseas. Can you walk there, again, the way that they are going to be able to vote . The problem i have is this idea that they are literally over fighting for the very democracy that we are talking about here today. And because of the delays getting ballots out and back, and worried that literally the 200,000 serving abroad in the extra 700,000 that are serving inside the u. S. Not at their duty station, not at their voting location excusing. Are going to be completely disenfranchised. So convince me secretary benton, i know this issues close to your heart that we are not going to be disenfranchising especially serving abroad. It is a risk i will say that. Right now in michigan ballots can be electronically delivered to overseas voters but must be returned via mail. And as i mentioned earlier we need the state legislature to change the law. To allow the electronic returns. Other states to even and a time like this were numerous voters sitting overseas cannot access the mail due to the pandemic. We need solutions freedom we need our state legislature to be a partner in developing the solutions. That partnership is key and theres only so much i have the authority to do or that congress has the authority to do. When in the state legislature to act. So in addition to that, if you wait for them to act in many states the ability of an overseas voter to return their ballot other than to the Postal Service is what we are looking for pert alternative avenues to return it has more to do with where the overseas voters living rather than who the voter is. Some laws authorize return options on whether the voter is living in a imminent danger zone. And it could be true for voters in the military. Families in the military are overseas. Based on where they live, the availability of the Postal Service or in the availability of it requires an additional workaround. Ive been acting since i took office for this to pass. Theres opportunities to advocate for those paths or offer alternative waves and roadways. Ways to deliver those ballots. It is a critical issue. Something we cannot solve alone. Is something that weighs on my heart greatly. Because we have to solve it before november. [inaudible] im sorry. I want to shift the topic if i could. Secretary adams curator sent your view of the military polling locations . Im concerned about the general issue of military or Law Enforcement being placed in any way our polling locations or the administration that in kentucky you have the guard called out. In some form or fashion. I didnt know exactly how. Can you give us our views since we heard the president talk about tracing Law Enforcement to help me thank you representativ representative. So to be clear, the governor called out the guard. Have a Great Partnership with them. They were not in uniform. And they served a purely support role. They help in sanitization they were not pullovers. Not even out of uniform. And that was an offering we made it was voluntary for acceptance to our counties. About half of our counties said yeah well take it. About half said no. We had a very unfortunate shooting of an individual during a demonstration who unfortunately was killed by a member of the National Guard. That came a few weeks before election day. It was in the limited fashion. So in kentucky we actually have a lot to be a poll worker you have to live in the county. But some kind of special permission. That the change the law for us to utilize our National Guard some find that to be intimidating. With the president saying he went to bring Law Enforcement potentially into our election process when he tweeted that, the intimidation having uniform Law Enforcement should not be underestimated. I appreciate your answer on that. Thanks for much mr. Chairman im out of time. The chair recognizes gentlemen form missouri for five minutes. Boomac thank you, mr. Chairman. I was pleased that you place this issue on our committee. Because we are mere days from an allimportant election. And i have a grandson who was upstairs in my home right now in bed. There are three of us in the house all in separate rooms. The points i want to make is that this is an awful disease. We should not force anybody to go stand in line and making them susceptible to this virus. I get a little emotional talking about it. But i want to ask our panel whether or not they believe is such thing in the world is Voter Suppression . We can go from left to right. First on that because we are so fresh off of and experience of that congressman. First my sympathies my condolences to your family. I know how challenging and uncertain this moment must be healthwise. So my heart goes out to you. The issue with Voter Suppression as i believe in data. [inaudible] we saw yesterday. [inaudible] that specific vote by mail. [inaudible] [inaudible] federal authority. [inaudible] may surprise you for voting one way or another. [inaudible] it was the case with this particular one. [inaudible] s boomac thank you very much. Let me talk make the secretary state do you believe the opinion th is correct . Or do you think they are making the delivery of that intelligence not only that the russians interfere with the last election, but they are already involved in trying to disrupt and sew discord in the nation. One of the ways they do that is to bet against us that democracy doesnt work. Do you believe that that is a truth the committee is making . Ill be in telogen agencies had a meeting and decided to lie to the American Public . About what the russians are doing. Would you like me . [inaudible] weve tried to cut to the noise and the rhetoric this year end speak directly with those doing the work heard and have found that evidence exists, as we all know what that means for us as we prepare for november weve got to be aware of the data the Law Enforcement agencies embed all security to asked to continuously. [inaudible] [inaudible] and. [inaudible] i incompetent that weve been talking. [inaudible] is not part of the. [inaudible] and what we are doing to protect the Community Collaboration with local and state Law Enforcement. Our time is running out. That was going to be my initial line of questioning. I just want my colleagues to know their critical view mr. Chairman on the postal issues on the agenda for Homeland Security. Homeland security. Homeland security. And if we have an impending invasion about russia, it seemed to me this to be an appropriate issue, mr. Chairman. Im to thank you for putting this on the agenda and i yield back. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And hopefully i dont have to use all that time. But let me just go to secretary adams really quickly. What we saw in kentucky was a rapidly expanded mail in voting process. Quick answer yes or no, did you see widespread fraud or abuse in the mail and ballot . No, sir, not in our state. Iphone reports we reduced tremendously the number of polling places that is also true right . That was not my decision, but if that individual counties to make decisions to reduce her locations prayed which was necessary because locations were not available. Their places of worship several close do to stay at home order played there were Nursing Homes and so forth. We offset a drop in poll workers. Let me ask a question in york springs i will rely on my experience. My experience is if you want the full participation of voters you make voting as accessible as possible principle we reduce polling places we create more travel for people to get their degree at that . I agree the polling location the poll workers are available you open the polls. But we didnt want to have kentucky is what happened wisconsin was was a tried to open up sites and people didnt show up. And the voters were disenfranchised. I understand that part i want you to listen to my question very carefully. Do you agree the burden of traveling further could likely reduce participation and a democratic process . And do you also agree the long lines that would ensue also burdens the democratic process because people may or may not have the time to wait in line. People may not have the stem lunch wait in line. The burden of travel to get there. Do you agree that as a democratic participation in the process . I certainly do agree with that part is less than a burden, sure it is a burden. Let me jump quickly to comment everybody can answer on this. The ability of the federal government to help you in terms of making sure that your election is both a safe, and backup to ensure the Election Results are with the peoples will dictates. Sue met lance that if i could congressman and thank you for your service and your questions. And our experience weve had great working relationship. The only challenge worth mentioning is who hears first when there is a problem for it is at the election official or the state . Myself and my calling of work to make sure the state knows about it but when a vendor we use or local jurisdiction in our state encounters a problem. I think weve gotten a little bit better on that line of communication for just so you all though that has been a consistent conversation were having nationwide among my colleagues and representatives but we know what the state level its going on in the state. Thank you for that answer. I may ask a quick question 17 answer yes or that will be helpful. And your experience of our view seen any indication that russians trying to interfere russians trying to interfere in your state in the election . We can start with mr. Adams. Or whoever wants to answer but it would be very helpful if you give me a yes or no on that. Respectfully mr. Represented i dont get comfortable getting into anything classified today. Ill go back to my prior commen comment. Let me ask you this but your experience, i would assume that mr. Adams you are elected right . I am. I would assume that ms. Benton you are elected, right . Yes i am. So let me just pose this question. Because this is factually correct. Lets assume that if someone googled her went to the website for nt findings redirected to the adams website or the secretary of state website for ms. Benton, that website for antifa zone by the russians, that is russian interference in an election. So that is a factual basis. So if that was redirected to your website. Would you all personally do that . Would you consider that russian interference in your election . I will say yes. I would also say past reports have indicated there have been, as we all know the nationwide efforts and attempts. We have really successfully protected our state against any infiltration or attempts. Excuse me, the question is still the same. In my district if someone went to a website that was unpopular, lets say the ku klux klan. And they redirected them to my website, that is an adverse action to my reelection. So my question is, if nt felt website owned by the russian was re directed the adams campaigner the secretary, ms. Benton, your campaign would you see that is negative interference from the russians that will be a dirty trick. I cannot tell you something keeps you up at night though. Thank you for that answer. Thank you for your time and i yield back. Thank you very much. Let me remind the members that when you are not talking, please yourself. Because some of the feedback we are getting because some of your left your mics open. I will recognize a gentle lady from. [inaudible] i thank you very much mr. Chairman. And i think our Ranking Member and panelist for the Expert Witness today. My first question will be directed toward secretary bento benton. A state and local officials work to administer primaries the spring, and chose to rapidly expand access to absentee ballots or vote by mail including my own state of new york. As covid19 continues to spread it is imperative that we continue expanding these options for the november election. Particularly in light of the board we received that covid may have a resurgent as the weather changes and people indoors. In addition however, we also need to learn from our experience in the spring. New yorks challenges implementing vote by mail made national news. This past week in the Washington Post reported that more than 500,000 ballots were rejected and crossed 23 different states. In contrast, some state successfully conducted the election exclusively by mail for many years pizza secretary benton, what are some of the reasons that a ballots can be invalidated. And how did the rules on accepting the validity of a valid theory by state. At such an important question. Congress woman that is where the things that keeps me up at night as we prepare for november. We have seen in her august primary, 2. 5 Million People voted jim voted. Just over 10000 ballots were unable to be counted that were mailed in for various reasons. Of those 10694 ballots, they were unable to be counted, 6400 of them, the vast majority could not be counted because they were sent in prior to election day but received in the two days that followed. That is a big deal. Those votes shouldve been counted. In my view odor should not be disenfranchised doing everything they are supposed to do if another system particularly the Postal Service fails to deliver their ballot on time. Thats all he had secured drop boxes women putting in place across the state. But is also critical for us to become a state that if something is postmarked by election date but received the day or two following that should stick count. The other major reason the spouse didnt count as they were sent in through the mail. And on the signature check on the ballot envelope in which the ballot displays, that voter signed outside in that signature is matched with a we have on file. In about 2002 and 25 of those 10000 ballots, theres 2000 either had a signature missing or did not match. We need to have our clerks follow up and have a ballot without a signature or mismatch to identify any irregularity. Or learn the voters identity make sure it counts for those of the two things we got our state legislature to act on that they have not. Those are acted on by november that will ensure that the vast majority of the ballots that were previously unable to be counted will be able to be counted in novembers election. Thank you secretary benton. Tend to disproportionately. [inaudible] from abuse, Younger Voters and voters of color. As patrick is that the case . Its important to note strewed the number one reason is late bout the number two region projection across the country hesitant the signature being missing. And that could be Younger Voters not signing it. Not knowing where to sign. And or the signature changing. We know signatures auteur around the time you are 25 years of age or older. So the message to voters is to be consistent. Be consistent by the way you sign. If you have whats often referred to as a throw a signature, thats five it be consistent with what signature you are using so it does not get objected. The late aspect of the ballot is the Postal Service recommends you put your ballot in the mail one week before it is due. And yet 22 states allow a boater to request about after that timeline. So i wrote about this in 2016 called the new reality of voting by mail. First class delivery is two to five days. So voters put in their ballot in the mail on monday or tuesday on election day, is a postmarked does not count in that state, there ballots may not count. Because one day delivery is something of the past. So it is very important that voters not focus on the deadline. Because those deadlines set them up to fail and sets up false expectations. They focus on the first date of mail and first state to vote. Dont wait to requested and dont wait to return it. Mr. Chairman is troubling to me that a ballot can be rejected because of a relatively minor error or something outside of the voters control. Members of Congress Must better understand what we should be asking our state and local officials to make sure that no voters disenfranchised because of a preventable error. With that mr. Chairman, i thank you for the hearing and a yield back the balance of my time. Thank you very much. Gentle lady from new york. To have a real concern on this. And i think the committee will get together and see if we can recommend some policy changes that we might get implemented into law to have some continuity of how that process works. The chair recognizes the young lady from nevada, ms. Titus for five minutes. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. As you know, and i suspect some members of the panel no, nevada just past and special session a before which has to do with elections. To be so dont be overwhelmed during the pandemic time despite the we are being sued on some bogus constitutional grants. Even a republican secretary of state ask of the suit be dropped. I would ask the panel theory experiencing this or know of other secretaries of state whove seen this kind of Chilling Effect or chance to delegitimize elections through the courts and suggest they do with it. Second, mr. Adams mentioned briefly at it like to follow up on this, that it is very hard to find poll workers. Most of the workers are seniors. They put themselves out there in the time of the virus. Because they are going to be facing a lot of people. What you do to find poll workers to get them to shop for testing and make sure they come on election day so we dont have a crisis of these polling places . Many arenas are in the country are saying milwaukee, you got the new razor stadium is a place for kind of a massive one stop voting place on election day. Are there problems with that . Do you see that as anything . How can we make that work . Thank you and i would appreciate anyone who would respond. I will talk quickly on the cases question. The secretaries have answers for the other two prayed there currently more than 200 cases around the country. Yes there are many cases from many with it has it drop boxes are turning out ballots to all voters i will add to that because i been very much involved in the effort to enable for election purposes you could be for early voting in detroit at the football arena will be a place where ballots are secured. In process for recounting the end of the night. Since filling a significant need in not just physical spaces and the need for more physical spaces about. But also people. We are proud that here in detroit many markets to encourage the sports teams and provide poll workers to give their employees the day off. As both of these friends we were able to return crew up to 2000 election workers in the state in the primary all the precincts were open. We had poll workers show up or feel uncomfortable shop on election day we had hundreds on standby the people and the places that make our democracy work. Are in critical need this year. Hi, representative train gets all three of your questions at that time prefers these sports venue or a great idea. We as those in kentucky in our primary. In the state fair center we have are state fair every year thats a gigantic venue for this should not be the only location account you could vote. There should be vote Centers Available that are easy to get to. It is a great model this is before we even heard of coronavirus. Its an aging generation of baby boomers who are poll workers disproportionately and are reaching out without regard to coveted team. The challenge is to get younger people to step up. Millennials, generation x to be civic and Community Organized get them to volunteer as poll workers. We have People Volunteer to be a poll worker five of our counties tells it ghana poll workers and vocations to open up their precinct on election day. Thats pretty good considering its late august. The last point of litigation, i will tell you i am an attorney i did election law professionally prior to coming to this office but ive never seen an environment like we have seen this year. You see a lot of cookiecutter lawsuits around the country. I have been sued 12 times. [laughter] ive been pretty successful so far. But ive been sued 12 times, primarily on the left side. You got litigation white cheddar right wing groups, left wing groups. Look at that got a good argument, great. But i think these and should be decided democratically. If the court and except the election rules, and only the public will accept that. White works so wellin kentucky as we had a democratic governor and secretary of state working to the postal process to write the rules instead of leading up to a judge to decide. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much the chair recognizes the gentle lady from new jersey for five minutes. Would to thank you very much mr. Chairman. This has been a very helpful and illuminating meeting. I am grateful to hear the testimony of all of our excellent witnesses. And thank you. It is shameful we should have this much discussion right now. How to protect our vote from the shenanigans, particularly the undermining that takes place coming out of the president s mouth. It should come out in this emergency situation how to facilitate voting. New jersey is one of those states that made a decision to send ballots to active voters to the additional step of requesting a ballot and getting a ballot. A report to in one, we are also the states being sued. That is shameful used expenditure of the president s power and his authority and resources. I am angry. Heres a question i would like to ask. Both of the secretaries of state and ms. Patrick to both of you testify you can process ballot that comes in through early voting apparatus prior to election day . We cannot in michigan. We cannot begin to open the envelope election day morning which is a big issue we have asked for state legislature to address. Thank you. Do adams and kentucky can you process ballot before election day . We can. We can run it through the machine. But if we dont pull out the machines until polls right thats how we avoid any premature disclosure of the results. [inaudible] thats me push the button and have the total. But just before that will process the ballots. [inaudible] because i can honestly god leave we need to know the results of the election as quickly as possible to avoid any of the sort of continued illegal activities in the part of this administration to impact the outcome to work to suppress the legitimate vote. Went to talk to the Governors Office about allowing us to process the ballot before election day. Can this be done ms. Patrick in a way that secures the vote, ensures the confidentiality, and makes sure ensures there is no tampering . To your knowledge of work in this field . Do you have a response to that . I definitely do. And not only is it that with the majority of the states do thats processed absentee and vote by mail ballots it is a best practice. And the Bipartisan Policy Center kit out the Task Force Recommendation to allow states to begin processing those ballots at least one week in advance. And the majority of states do. So in reality, on Election Night, for most of the country when the holograms start showing all of the results. In the vast majority of states those are in fact vote by mail absentee ballots, early in person ballots. And the few precincts that have come in right as the polls have right those usually come in later. So there are a handful of very critical states. Secretary benton is one of them. Pennsylvania, wisconsin, those are three states that do not allow the processing before election day. So we will not have those results until later, if there states do not allow them to begin the preprocessing. History tells us as early as possible. Could you just answer the question about some of the mechanisms to secure the vote, to ensure there is no tampering. And to mitigate leaks that come out from those who are working in that process . I think that is very important for us to know. There are absolutely best practices established. The securing of the daily totals, many will start counting a week or two weeks in advance. Many places will have multiple calculators. Sue never accumulates all of those votes until the polls have closed and youre able to do so. Also there are many restrictions as been a great partner in the tabulation centers for the securing of the electric component as far as what theyre traveling onto every day. And arizona we had 24 7 cameras under tabulation center. Anyone could go on the website and the dead of night when it was very busy during the day. So transparency and documentation and chain of custody are all elements of our road in process or critical. Those are very well laid out. Those best practices are available. For somebody like me who once asked that information before make that call where do i go and get this information . I am concerned about the security, no leaking no tampering you know. I think the website has some very good structure for securing those channels. Has additional security information. And lastly reach out to the secretary of state that dont do this already. Because more than likely they put forth what they would like to do and the ability to adopt some of those best practices. Thank you. Mr. Chairman i yield back and thank you for this hearing. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes from california. For five minutes. I think you mr. Chairman for holding this very critical hearing. Hearing from our constituents from the delay of their mail and they concerns about election their vote will count. Mr. Dunstan, thank you summit for being here today. Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here. My question are directed to you. After post master general luce to joy testified earlier this may cut oversight and reform you stated and i quote, it is an indisputable fact postal customers i witness a degrading and slowing of mail Service Since postmaster general louis dejoy instituted changing to mid july. What is been the consequences for customers of the slowing mail service . Thank you congresswoman can you hear me okay . I can. Okay. My computer saying something funny. The consequences for the customers is a lot of vital supplies for medicines to our veterans and seniors, Financial Transactions we have reports of customers with late fees because they dont arrive in time. We have reports from customers about mortgage payments didnt arrive on time. We have definitely had reports from a va kind of whistleblower reports. But also from veterans themselves as mostly anecdotal or researchers try to find out habits of people mail they found it stuck in the system. They seem to be fixed quickly. The postal operations have the degradation and slowing of mail service you and your members have observed . See metternich its hard to identify one thing. But with the changing transportation they focus on almost a fetish that the truck has to leave on certain time from a certain location or facility there and back three to 6 00 a. M. Its got to go its exam for a few minutes earlier. Because it says so on paper prebut the real rise in the post offices to get all the mail on that check. So to me whether its a 97 ontime rating now with the trucks leaving and arriving on time. The question is, is your mail on that truck . To the need to wait another seven or eight minutes to get anything loaded up. Also there is a constant need the fedex trucks are being canceled. On the backed up pretty quickly. Also need enough work hours. To make sure the work gets done. One of the things i have been hearing is seminar district get no mail for one day or two days. This have been different for them than just a delay. Would you say that is because what was done to ours . Maybe a letter carrier didnt get to a home . That i cant answer. We dont represent the letter carriers. It probably goes back to the transportation as well. At that sort of mail does not get in that truck from the processing sorting facility, then that letter carrier cannot get it to the customers. To a lot of it comes back to the transportation issue. And to get the work done. The Statement Released and i quote and longstanding operational initiatives that predates my the Postal Service that has been raised and carries its concern as a nation prepares to hold an election of a devastating pandemic. To avoid the appearance of any impact on election mail im suspending the initiatives until after the election. You know the long standing initiatives are that mr. Joy was referring to on his statement and how long before his arrival at the Postal Service did they begin . I believe he is referring specifically the blue boxes. By honestly dont know. Of the postmaster general said the overtime has it will continue to be approved as needed. With overtime cut eliminate it before august 18 . And if so what changes have you seen the approval that mr. Joy issued a statement . It was put into writing but it was very unevenly in some areas were still work. Some areas it wasnt. But even overtime was often total hours worked was reduced. The key at the end of the day, that to me is not how the hour it worked but whether the Postal Service under santa they can hire, they can work overtime bird we are in a pandemic. Weve had 40000 postal workers quarantine. Somebody has to make up those hours as well. So what we see is still fairly significant levels of overtime in some areas. In some areas words been banned. Where its been found we know for sure thats having an impact on mail delivery. Thank you and thank you to the men or women of the Postal Service parading without a yield back. Thank you very much, the young ladies time is expired with the chair recognizes from florida for five minutes. Has she left . Mr. Chairman can you hear me . Weve got you now. Lets restart the clock please, thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman thank you to all of our witnesses. I just want to start here, the u. S. Postal service as we heard earlier has a 91 approval rating. I think that sends a pretty strong message about the job these men and women do and have done for a lot of years. What were talking about today, the Postal Service being able to do their job and voters being able to vote during a Public Health pandemic. I am somewhat disappointed that it appears my colleagues on this committee seem more concerned about what American Voters may do that they have shown any concern about russian interference past or present in our election. Based on the president s own admissions as a chairman pointed out, i am totally convinced that this president is trying to undermine the 2020 election and sees the crippling of the United States Postal Service as a part of that strategy. And every member on this committee should be concerned about that. Ms. Patrick, there is discussion earlier about this information. In your testimony you identified the increased role of philanthropy in analyzing election data and establishing best practices in countering misinformation. To make sure honest election information is moving forward. As you know in the Election Security acts, it would require the president to create a Bipartisan Commission and National Strategy to protect u. S. Democratic institution get cyber attack, influence operation, disinformation campaign. What is your opinion about establishing such a commission . Certainly right i am predisposed to appreciate commissions. I did serve on president obamas Residential Commission on election. As long as is putting forth by a bipartisan nonpartisan way the members are selected because of their expertise and not because of who they may be no, that is the real key. Too that sort of commission. So when we have the pca, we came out with a report. Often these Commission Reports sit on a shelf endure grow dust and get dusty. Because of the members of committee prebecause of the recommendations are practical and actionable, and held everyone accountable. Whether something the federal government needed to do, the State Government or something affect the local official could pick up an implement on their own volition, it was very wellreceived. Into this day i think many of the recommendations we suggested are in fact why we are in a better place than we were so many years ago for it or not that many years ago rather. I think as long as the members of the commission. Expertise thank you so much ms. Patrick. A lot of the discussion centered around the Timely Delivery and return of ballots whether going to be able to make this work. There some challenges during the primary. Youre going to be able to make it work during the general election. On the one hand some Postal Service encourage states to send belted the firstclass mail rat rate. Others at the marketing mail rate. But the bottom line is i know there has been discussion about getting the ballots returned as quickly as possible. Some have even talked about election mail logo that would clearly identify ballots that needed to have a status. Could you talk a little bit about what is actually going on on the ground . In what direction you have been given or workers have been given from the u. S. Postal service as it pertains to this issue . I think the most encouraging sign that the postmaster general under oath before congress did commit that all ballots will be treated as firstclass mail no matter what rate of mail its mailed in. He did commit that . That is encouraging. What has been the practice on the ground as it pertains to the ballots . With ballots, the Postal Service does not run elections. [inaudible] that helps a lot. We tried to states use intelligent barcode system which tracks the belt to the boater, back from the boater. My last shift of the resources and the commitment from the National Leadership of management of the Postal Service. And the relationship of the state that some of the secretaries of state have testified to. On the ground, once the belt start falling and you have to have people read represent in the other postal. [inaudible] did you get a directive from the postmaster general since this hearing last week . Know. Weve not been given directives yet. We do have task force of the postal union and postal management on this very issue that i think has its first meeting september 3 or somewhere thereabouts. We are going to be very proactive. As postal workers weve always use heaven and earth to make sure those ballots get the parade thank you very much mr. Chairman i yield back. Thank you very much. Thinker witnesses for their valuable testimony. In the members for their questions. Let me also say to our witnesse witnesses, you have been very, very enlightening. To the members as well as the public. About the confidence in our election system. That this system of picking our leaders is so important to democracy. I want to personally thank you for you sharing that system of election is a system where local people participate. Local individuals work the poll polls. And for the most part, our system of mail in ballots work. I know that we have been hearing from the white house and other places about how wrought with fraud and abuse the system is, the testimony today reflects just the opposite. Part of her oversight responsibility is to get to the facts. And again i thank you for helping us pursue accurate information. Members of the committee may have additional questions however for the witnesses. We ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. Without objection to commit as record should be kept open for ten days. Hearing no further business the subcommittee stance adjournd