Particular course, but the sea will come, the wind will come, youll lose, ultimately youll move, ultimately, in a differentic direction. More prosaically, it comes from a period in my career when i was a fourstar admiral. I was finishing up down in u. S. Southern command, peter, and i was in charge of all military activity south of the United States. Andi i was very hopeful of going to the pacific next as the end of u. S. Pacific command which is a very traditional position for a senior admiral. Gates, bob gates, said, stavridis. Were going to send you to nato. I was the first and thus far the only admiral to be spree supreme am lied commander in nato and just an accident of timing and faith and secretary gate decision. So from the nato perspective i was at the dental admiral who became the supreme allied expired but the navy was an accident as well, one it, as a career . Guest somewhat. So, lets go way back. I grew up in a marine corps family. My father, george stavridis, proud colonel of marines, fought in korea and vietnam. I grew up in that environment, and so went to Quantico High School south of washington, dc, went to navy think iing i would be a marine corps and heres the accident. At any first year the navy send everybody out on a cruise and you go out on a ship. I went out on a beautiful cruelser out of san diego, and i walked up on the bridge of that ship in the evening, gotten away from the pier late in the day and i got up there and the sun was setting and i looked out on all that ocean and all that light and i was like, st. Paul and the road to damascus, just wanted to by a sailor at that point and be in ships. So i went home and told my dad and my mom, shirley, and they were kind of hoping i would be a marine but they got over it. Years later when i pitch on my first star as an admiral my dad said, i think that came out okay for you, jim. Host you almost left the navy after five years, correct . Guest i did. I graduated from annapolis and went to sea for five years. I spent three of a destroyer, out of san diego, and then went to mayport, florida, where i am coming to you from today. Out of my home town. My mom lives here, my inlaws. And at the end of that five year period i was on an Aircraft Carrier as my second stipulate. A destroyer and an Aircraft Carrier. At the end of the five years i could launch a missile. I was a very capable mariner but i couldnt launch an idea to save my life. And the navy stepped in and made me an offer, as the sagos, i couldnt refuse. I went to the Fletcher School of law and diplomacy at tufts university, graduate school of international relations, and i learned how to launch an idea there i think, and that is when i began to shift the focus of my career from exclusively focusing on Maritime Operations and being a mariner, which of course is a part of my life and career, but also trying to be involved in the world of ideas. Came out of my time at fletcher in the early 1980s. Host as Supreme Commander of nato, 2009 to 2013, you say in the accidental admiral you wrote 250,000 words, mainly to teach yourself, not others. Guest indeed. I felt as though a big part of my job as the supreme allied commander of nato is to take ideas and move them across this enormous command. At the time there were 28 nations in nato. Today there are 30. Three million people. Men and women. Almost all volunteers on active duty. Another four million in reserves, 28,000 military aircraft, 800 oceangoing ships. You get the idea. A very big command, and i felt as though part of my job was communication of the key ideas, of the strategy. So a spent a lot of time writing for my own benefit because i learn as i write, and also for the benefit of those in the command. Host one of the chapters in at the book is about the chateau. What is that . Guest the chateau is the official residence of the supreme allied commander of nato. Its a beautiful french chateau which is on 26 acres. Its maintained and financed by the belgian government its in belgium just south of brussels, and its not only a lovely place to live but also a Strategic Communications platform. Its where the supreme allied commander will host a dinner for all of the heads of state and government of the nato alliance. Youll host the senior military officers from rope the alliance. Youll host partners, allies, friends, and opponents. One of the most memorable dinners we held there was for the my opposite number in the russian federation, the supreme command e. Of the russian military. I like general makarov. Were bought 55, were not towering people and i used to joke to secretary gates, my boss, he would call me after aid immediate with the general and say, how did the meet going and id say, sir, i it was great, we saw everything eye to eye which we did at our towering 55 height put its an exam of the fact we need to engage not only with those who are already on our team but if were going to succeed in creating real security, we have to engage with those with whom we have disagreements and this was a good example of that. All that occurred in the chateau. Host from that book, the extental admiral, you write, throughout my time as the nato strategic commander, i was often asked what kept me awake at night. My simple one word answer to what really kept me awake may surprise you and thats convergence. Guest indeed. What i particularly concerned about because id looked around in those years this was ten years ago i was concerned about afghanistan, libya baskans, piracy, cyber security, but what increasingly concerned me was the potential of convergence between groups against the United States, terrorist organizations, if you will, and the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Those are like two streams of threat and its kind of like in ghostbusters, you never want to let the streams cross. So i worried a lot in those areas of al qaeda finding its way to a nuclear device. We have to continue to be concerned about that in the context today not only of al qaeda but about the islamic state, about boca haram in algiera, alshabaab in eastern africa, these groups continue to try and find ways to obtain weapons of mass destruction. So, yes, i worry alight about convergence, and over the last ten years, my view has added to that concern, i cyber, and cyber security. Because these groups are becoming more and more adept at using the tools of offensive cyber capability to go after our finances, our infrastructure, our medical establishment, are all quite vulnerable, so to the contest of ten years ago when i was very focused on extremist organizations and nuclear weapons, today i am equally concerned about cyber and cyber tools in the hands of such organizations and also in the hands of rogue states like north korea. Host can you get isolate when youre the Supreme Commander of nato . Guest of course. You have to fight every day in a job like that to break out of the cocoon your staff will try to put you. In this is true for any leader of any sizable organization. Your staff will want to take control, will want to dictate the tempo, the organization of your day. Theyll want to schedule your trips. Want to control the information coming in. Theyll want to control your Communications Going out. Thats the nature of staffs. They do that because it creates order where otherwise chaos might exist. And it is a commendable and a natural function of the staff. But as a commander, i would argue, you have to fight against that isolation. You have to rage against the dying of the light, if you will to pick up dylan thomas poem, you have to fight to get out of that cocoon, to find sources of information that can come into you, to find ways to communicate simply and truly to your organization, into demand that you have a voice in your schedule, in where your priorities are. Lets face it, your greatest asset as a commander, whether youre the supreme allied commander of nato or the ceo or exxon or the president of harvard university, if youre the leader of a large organization, your most precious asset is your time. And how you allocate it and prioritize has to be reflected in your time, and one thing i would do as a practical point to be made for those in such positions, we can often think that our priorities are x, y and z. And a very good exercise every six months is to get out the calendar and look back at the previous six months and say to yourself, am i prioritizing my time in alignment with my supposed priorities of x, y and z . And i would find occasionally, more than occasionally, that i would be prioritizing with my time a, b and c, despite the fact my stated priorities one x, y and z. So, it is crucial to break and to use your own view of what your time should be and how it should be spent, and all of that means getting out of that isolation and that bubble that a typical staff will try to place a leader in. Host was it easier to do to get out of that bubble when you were on a ship and could Wander Around on your own . It. Guest it was and i wrote a book about that years ago. When i was in my 30s, called destroyer captain and it is a very short book it and simply was a series of excerpts from journal is kept the first time i took commanded a sea. Was lucky enough to be the captain of uss barry, brand new guided missile destroyer and i wanted desperately to connect with my crew, and on a ship like that its a big ship. Its 500 feet long, longer than a football field by considerable distance. Has crew of 300 to 350 depending on the configuration but its a small universe unto itself, especially when youre out at sea and as the captain, you get to decide how you want to use your time. Are you going to sit in your chair on the bridge kind of surveying the beautiful ocean . Are you going to spend the time locked in your cabin doing paperwork . Those are real options. Or are you going to get out on foot patrol in your ship and know every one of your sailors and their back story and ask them questions and understand what brought them to the navy. All of that i think is part of being a good captain, and its not only done in ships at sea. Think its part of any Good Organization that desires to get out, move around, know your people, all of that contributes to Effective Mission accomplishment. Host what is articlely burk class mean. The u. S. Navy for every type of ship, destroyers, cruiser, Aircraft Carriers, sub marines the first ship of that type is thats called a class, and that type is the first ship is the class leader and thus of the every destroyer of that particular type built exactly the same as the first one is called an arley burk class kea exterior. For example, i commanded ddg52, hull number 52. My wife, laura, is the proud sponsor that means she got to break the champagne bottle to christen the shipment the is she sponsor solve dgy113. From 52 to 113 and every one of those destroyers is called an arley burk class destroyer, built along the lines of the very first one. So its wonderful to have a ship named after you for anybody. Its a deep honor, but a particular honor to be the lead ship of the class and that honor was bestowed on admiral burk the greatest of our destroyer officers, the most impactful surface line chief of naval operations. He was the cno for six years, an iconic naval figure and all the ships in that class are ar leey burk class destroys. Ill close by saying mine this, second of the class, was named the barry after john barry who is not terribly wellknown, revolutionary war navy captain, a contemporary roughly of john paul jones, and was a superb naval officer. Those who served in the barry are very proud of that and proud to be the barry just like my wife is proud to be the sponsor of 113, the john finn, named for a medal of honor winner at pearl hash per, and all of white house served in any of those destroyers are very proud to be destroyer men and women, and to serve in an early burk class destroyer. Host admiral all of your books contain leadership lessons and one of those lessons are a combination of lessons is, bold autonomy versus organizational fidelity. Guest you have to have boat and theres always a tension for a leader in the traditions and cull culture of his or her chores can collide with innovation, and a good leader knows and youll hear me say this again i suspect in the course of a twohour conversation life is not an on and off switch. Its not a binary choice between simply accepting tradition or innovate constantly and constantly change. Thats a false choice. Instead of thinking of it as an on and off switch we need to think of it was a rheostat, a gill like the dimmer in your dining room that you adjust to make the lighting just perfect. A good leader has to find that balance between respect for the traditions and the heritage of the organization against the innovation that is necessary to keep that organization moving forward. I think thats one of the real keys to leadership, and ill give you a practical example from one of my heroes, Winston Church which, the secretary of the navy of the British Royal navy in the early part of the 20th century and constantly watched to innovate and drive change and he was constantly in conflict with the art admiralty and one point he heard to many times we cant do that, its against the traditions of the navy, and churchill exploded and said, tradition . Ill give you the traditions of the navy. Run, bugger and lash. In other words, there is time when we have to move forward. Luckily for churchill he found somebody in sir jackie fisher, in early 20th century british admiral who was an innovator like churchill and the formed a partnership with helped move the royal navy along. Host admiral you moe recent book is called sailing true north. What is true north. Guest true north ised a heres to what we broadly con conceive over of as moral and ethical behavior. You are trustworky, you are honest, you care about others, you are kind to others, you have empathy and try and put yourself in the shoes of the other, and not just your friends and family but in the shoes of your opponents and those with whom you disagree. You believe in things like democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of education, gender equality, racial equality. We execute those values imperfectly but they are the right values and when taken together, that value set, plus the personal qualities i mentioned a moment ago, that is what it means to sail true north. Host in that book you wry, quote i am also motivated by a greg sense that we are witnessing the slow death of character. Guest we are. I also say in the book that i think we overshare publicly and we underperform in thinking about our character, our internal debate, and heres an important point about sailing true north. Its not a book about leadership. Its a book about character. Those are two very different things. Leadership is a big door. A big door that swings in the world that influences others. And that door of leadership swings for good or for ill. We think of franklin del know roosevelt, a top president along with washington and lincoln. That door of leadership he exerted to get usually to the great depression, to get us through the second world war, that door of leadership was enormous and it swung for good. On the other hand, thing about a leader like poll pol pot of tam boda, ruthless, thug, but an effective leader. He could mobilize a society. His big door of leadership led to an awful genocide in the killing fields of cambodia. Leadership is that door, but big doors swing on small hinges, and that small hinge is character, its the human heart. It determines where your door of leadership is going to swing. So i wanted to write a book that talked about character. Were frankly we are awash in books of leadership. Just walk through an airport. Youll see dozen of them in every become store. We are underweight in books about character, about this idea of sailing true north, and so i chose to write about that topic and in the category of write what you know about, what a concept, decided to write about character in the context of admirals and the sea. And i chose ten admirals from history, going back 2500 years ago to a greek admiral, all the way through the late 20th century. Admiral grace hopper, a woman dragged the navy kicking and screaming into the computer age. Their ten stories are stovers character, hence the title the back, sailing true north, ten admirals in victim of character. Thats the idea of the book. Host wellll get into the admirals in a minute. But to go back to your quote about character, you said, like you said, we overshare and our Attention Spans have shortened. Are those comments directed at any one in particular . Guest no. Theyre directed at all of us. But i think we can all point to public figures today who would benefit from doing a little more reading and doing a little more thinking and a little more internal contemplation, and to take the example into the twitter sphere and the world of twitter, recently twitter expanded from a maximum of 140 characters to 270 characters and createed a firestorm month twitter users who said its going to make the tweets just too long. Think but that for a minute. Thats 270 letters. And so my argument is, sure, we need tweets. Theyre like a shot of espresso but you dont want to have a diet that consists of 50 shots of espresso before lunch. Thats not a healthy diet you neat a diet that has some tweeting in it, some short punchy reading. You need to be reading, mill view, newspapers and understanding the daily cycle of news, you need to understand events through things like reading the economist magazine, for example, which is i think one of the great magazines in the world. It is almost 200 years old. It has no bilines in, helps no reporter ego involved. It is resolutely journalistic, and it is detached from the daily news cycle and in addition to all of that we need to find time all of us to read some books, both nonfiction which we talked but but i would argue also great novels help us understand the world. So, your reading diet is like your physical fitness diet. You dont want to do just one exercise all the time. You want to have a pretty broad based diet. Host what is the back of your Business Card say . The back of Business Card is blank and perhaps i should think about putting something clever back there. Ill tell you a quote i like a lot that i would think but putting hope to back of my Business Card, which is a quote of the greatest of modern greek writers, in serbia that greek and on his tombstone he has the following idea which the quote i would put is, the same as the quote on his gravestone, which is i want nothing, i fear nothing, i am free. And i would want it there because i think we need to be fearless in our lives. We need to do what we think is right without currying favor or fear and we need the perspective that whatever we do, were only here for a brief moment or two in this world. So, if i were going to put something on the back of my Business Card id put this quote. Host in the leaders bookshelf you write that a Thomas Jefferson quote is on the back of your personal Business Card. Guest its actually on the front of my card. Host okay. Guest i think i had you there. That one is very famous quote by our second president , someone we should all admire and jefferson said, i cannot live without books. And so on at the front of my Business Card is that on the bottom. Host well, were going to play a little video from 2015, it and was from cspan program. Its from retired admiral you mention her in your most recent book, sailing true north. See if you can recognize the voice. When ive been in command, i would say thats when you get your greatest sense of satisfaction. And some of it is when youre in command, youre with sailors and marines, and they are people who make miracles happen in every mission and you just can only be delighted as a leader to help work people through to Mission Success and to be an observer of that and then to congratulate every single individual on the team who helped you win the day somewhere. Host admiral stavridis, decide you recognize admiral howards voice. Guest of course, how dare you give it away without asking me to come up with it. Thats my very good friend, admiral michelle howard, who is he first africanamerican to be a four star woman admiral in the out navy. She is a little dynamo. Maybe 50. I always like being around mbecause im actually taller than she is. She is as you heard in that clip, thoughtful, kind, she is somewhat who absolutely sails true north. I first met her, believe it or not. Win she was a midshipman at the Naval Academy and i was a few years out of annapolis and i went back to see a play there midsummer nights dream. She was part of the cast in midsummer nights dream. She is really quite a remarkable person, just retired as a fourstar navy admiral in charge of naval forces in europe. She is someone i have enormous respect for and hence the reason she is part of a profile in sailing true north. Host and in sailing true north you write that, quote, love of country despite the manifest flaws and mistake wiz often make as a nation is a quality that leads to service for others, and improves a society lucky enough to develop true patriots. Guest its so true. And i want to make a point here since you raise this idea of service, which is the following. People say to me all the time, and i appreciate it, admiral, thank you for your service, thank you for your 37 years in the u. S. Navy, and i appreciate that a lot. Heres my point, peter. There are so many ways to serve this country. Certainly the military is one. But how about our firefighters, how about our emergency room technicians, how about our police . How about our doctors and nurses on the frontline of fighting covid . How about teachers . Think about an Elementary School teacher in rural south carolina, where my sister ann came up through her career working in the Charleston School district. Teacher starts there for 32,00. Teaching a packed classroom. You think she is serving the country . Boy, i do. I think we need to talk and think a lot more about service. That is inextricably tried to character. And i believe that we ought to thank people in the military but we august to thank all of the boom i just messengered and ill throw in a few more. Our diplomats, peace corps around volunteers, our cia officers. We have so many different ways you can serve this country and ill throw in another one which may really surprise you. How about our media . When i would go into afghanistan as the supreme allied commander, surround by my personal security detail, wearing bulletproof attire, steel helmet, i would look over to the side and im seeing a journalist there, someone like my friend, richard engle, who is our Foreign Correspondent at nbc news. Richardeningle is standing with a illfitting very small probably not really bulletproof vest, and hes get a flip phone. Im armed with a. 45 caliber weapon that ill never use because im surrounded by special forces who are going to use theirs very capably if push comes to shove office the sagos. All of those of people serve the country in a wide variety of ways. So my pitch whenever people say to me, thank you for your service, is, i appreciate that, go find a teacher and tell her, thank you for her service. Go find a firefighter and thank him for his service. Go find a diplomat and thank her for working as the deputy chief of mission in a big tough embassy overseas. A lot of ways to serve the country. Michelle howard embodies one form of that kind of service. There are many others. Host and thats another one of the leadership lessons that come now your books, being a part of something larger than yourself. Guest you have to be. And i heard that phrase for the first time when i walked in the door of the u. S. Naval academy in 1972. Otherwise known what 1. 2 million years ago. And it was funny, peter, just over the last couple of days the class of 2024, which arrives this year, 2020, its a fouryear course, they went through their induction day and of course because of covid theyre coming in over the course of several days actually to create social distancing, but it was the same to look at those young faces of men and women imbued with this desire to take on a huge challenge, to be part of this class that walks through the door well over a thousand, and to be part of serving the country to be part of something bigger than just yourself, and i saw that in the class of 2024 as they walked in, got their shades shaved, looking a lot like mine now, and they continue. I know that class will be yet another marvelous class of graduated from annapolis, all of them part of this unbroken line of service and its not just annapolis, its of course i have to admit but certainly the air force academy at colorado springs, the Merchant Marine Academy at kings point, new york. All of these schools of places where young men and women go to choose to be part of something larger than. Thes and thats the first step in the journey of leadership and the journeyoff character. Host thank you for joining us on booktv. Our guest is retired admiral and author, james stavridis. He served in the u. S. Navy from 1976 to 2013, including a stint as commander of the u. S. Southern command, and supreme allied commander at nato from 2009 to 2013. He served as the dean of the Fletcher School at tufts after that, and currently works for nbc news and is an operating executive at the carlisle group. He is the author of self books, some coauthored, some his own, heres a partial list. He was an editor on an update of command at sea. He wrote the accidental admiral which we have talk about a bit. Specifically about his time in nato in 2014. The leaders become shelf came out no 2017 with coauthored be r. Manning answerle. Sea power the history of geopolitics of the worlds oceans cam out in 2017. Sailing true north came out last year. 10 admirals and the victim of character. He has new involve coming out in 2021, entitled 2034, a novel of the next world war. If you have questions or comments you would like to make to admiral stavridis, heres how you can do so. 202 7488200. Eastern time sews, 202 7487201 in the mountain or pacific time sewn and you can text in a question. 202 7488903. That is the text number. And we have all our social media sites as well, twitter, facebook, newscast. Make comments there as well. booktv is our handle. Well scroll through the addresses so that if you want to make a comment to the admiral, you can do so. Now, admiral, we talked about some of your books but one book we didnt mention was a proposed book called veep stakes. What was that about . Guest well, in 2016, right about now in 2016, i was vetted for Vice President by candidate Hillary Clinton and john podesta who was her campaign manager, former chief of staff of the white house, is a friend of mine, john podesta called me up and said, admiral, would you be willing to be vetted . I said, sure. Ive always said im open to the idea of service. By the way im a registered independent. I have always been so. In addition to being vetted for Vice President , i was invited to trump tower after the election to have a discussion with president elect trump about a cabinet position. So i mention it in the context of im a bipartisan figure. So, ive said to chief of staff, the campaign manager, john podesta and of course secretary clinton was nice enough to call me as well, sure, ill be vetted. That turned into quite an experience, its quite an experience to be vetted for Vice President , and it means providing the campaign with every article you have ever written, every media appearance you ever made, all of your bank records, all of your social networks, all of your school transcripts, your dem records, medical records, every tax return going back 20 years, i think. Its a big long process, and its also done with a lot of secrecy because it was something the campaign wanted to keep secret as long as they could eventually it broke in the New York Times and became public, but for well over a month, six weeks, it well over a month, six weeks, it was done behind the scenes. So i would be sending all of this unbelievable, highly Sensitive Information basically to a bunch of email addresses. And one point i said to a very close friend and advisor of mine, retired Navy Captain Bill harlow who was a former spokesman at the cia, knows the intelligence world well, i said to captain harlow, i hope im not actually sending this information not to the clinton campaign, but somehow ive been maneuvered to send it to russian intelligence. That got us both chuckling and we found at that implausible actually and thought that would make an interesting novel so we did a treatment of a kind of hapless individual who is chosen to be vetted for vicepresident who starts sending all of this information, he thinks, to the campaign, except unbeknownst to him hes sending it to an Intelligence Organization and im describing to you the First Quarter of the book. When thats revealed then he has to figure out how do i get out of this. And so, we found this a clever book and it was meant to be tongue in cheek, kind of like a novel by chris buckley, thank you for smoking that kind of a bi book, elmore leonard, entertainment. But we wrote it up and sent it to have to our agents and to our publishers and editors and it was resoundingly rejected because everybody said, oh, its just so implausible that a campaign would be tricked like that. Now, you know, four years later, im not so sure, who knows . Maybe well dust that one off, but thats the story of veep stakes, what is happening right now. Former vicepresident biden who knows the veepstakes and hes in the process of picking a woman, as he said, to be his candidate. So its really apropos of the moment. It was a fun little treatment to write up. Still available if anybody is watching. What do you think of military folks serving in elected office. 100 in favor of it. Can i give you a really good example . How about president dwight david eisenhower, who was not only a superb general, brilliant organizer with the supreme allied commander of nato, was also the president of columbia university. A lot of people missed that turn, and went on to be, i think, a highly successful twoterm president of the United States. There are many marvellous books out there about eisenhower. Id encourage people to read a crusade in europe, the auto biographical treatment of his command and someone who sailed true north and made his occasional mistakes in life, and in politics, but i think overall was a superb, kind of mid 20th century president. During the period of time when there was real danger in a cold war of erupting, you know, he was someone who managed that set of challenges brilliantly from 52 it to 60 and a great book is evan thompsons bluff, and who was a bridge player, he would bluff his geopolitical opponents. So theres but one example. Frankly, we could go on on the subject, but i think theres plenty of precedent amongst our both Elective Office at the level of senators and representatives, as there is at the level of eisenhower and ill close on another one, kind of got away, i think, in a sense and that would be colin powell. Boy, i wish colin powell had chosen to run for Elective Office. I think he would have been a remarkable president of the United States. He was a foreign secretary of state, as well as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. Really a remarkable individual in so many ways. So i think theres room for Superb Service from senior military in an administration for elective employment. Host lets hear what our callers have to say. Well begin with jim in california. Youre on with admiral james sta stavridis. Thank you for taking my call. Admiral, the use of the word kindness, not a word i normally associate with military figures and i think its quite, quite wonderful. My question is, how far in advance does the military plan in terms of Weapons Systems strategy and so on, how many decades . And kind of on a related note, how can we diffuse what looks to be increasingly growing tension with china in the area of the South China Sea . I notice there were two carrier groups that were apparently going there now and id just like your thoughts on that. Guest jim, are you former navy . No, i am not. Host thank you for the question. Youre in caliente, i would say thats a hot question on both counts. Planning, the military is the absolute bastion of long range planning. Were quite good at mid and short range planning. Ill put time on that. Short range is one to two year frame. Mid range three to five to seven years frame. Longrange planning is five to 10year with outlier plans that look even further than that. Military planning is both tactical, in other words, if, god forbid, we got into a war with china, we had a plan for how we would execute that war. If we got into a war on the Korean Peninsula because kim jongun woke up in a bad mood and decided to attack the south, not an impossibility, we have very detailed plans how we would respond to that. Additionally, we have those kind of longer range plans and a good example of this, jim, would be factoring the midyear period in the 20th century between world war i and world war ii, the navy in particular did a great deal of Detailed Planning for naval campaigns that might occur if we ended up in a war with japan, for example. So militaries are very exceptional planning organizations. Having said all of that, i will say that i think it was eisenhower who said no plan survives First Contact with the enemy. In other words, the enemy gets a vote. And so, you can have a beautifully orchestrated plan, but the enemys actions will be part of how that plan unfolds and i think it was general patton who said that a good plan violently executed is better than a perfect plan that you never get around to putting on the table. What he meant by that was, and this is true for all of us in every walk of life, right . You can let your desire for perfect become the enemy of really good. You have to know when to put your pencil down. Put your plan in place. Resource that plan, be prepared to execute it and know that there will come twists and turns. But i would say one of the real skills in the military is planning and ill close on this by saying, it is formally taught as a process. Even to our young men and women at our service academies, again when they hit mid career points, the commanding staff college, for example, of the army is legendary bastion of Detailed Planning and again, in our war colleges for our lt. Colonels, navy commanders, our navy captains, our army, marine corps colonels, they study planning again at each level learning more and developing more detail. Yes, were very good at that. It doesnt mean those plans are perfect, but there is, i asherry you a detailed mplan for virtually every encounter globally. Your other question, of course, is very much of the moment and it is what can we do ill rephrase it in this way. What can we do to avoid stumbling into another cold war, this time with china or, god forbid to get in a shooting war with china. I think thats the most important question that our government should be thinking about internationally right now. That relationship between the United States and china. And lets say that we have some significant disagreements with china. Their intellectual property theft. Cyber intrusion. The chinese claim that the entire South China Sea, a huge body of water the size of the caribbean and the gulf of mexico combined, china claims that South China Sea as territorial for china. They want it because its full of hydrocarbons, oil, natural gas below the surface and fisheries and because 40 of the worlds trade is through there. Were concerned about human rights with china, 1. 3 million uighurs, muslim descendents in china who are pushed into encampments that are essentially concentration camps. Were concerned about human rights in hong kong which ought to have another 30 years of two systems, one nation. We have a lot of disagreements with china, so to your question, how do we approach china . Ill tell you a quick thing. Number one, first part of your excellent question, we need a plan and here again, i can assure you the military has planned for military engagement with china which i deeply hope we avoid. But we dont have a national plan. We need one. So my view would be take someone like dr. Henry kissinger, perhaps our greatest living expert on china, surround him with the most talented people who understand china economically, in the world of finance, in the world of culture and history, in the world of military operation, et cetera, have that brain trust, call it a commission, if you will, create a National Strategy for how we approach china in this 20th century. So, number one, lets get a plan. Number two, philosophically use the following approach. Confront where we must, but cooperate wherever we can. In other words, avoid that kind of mindless cold war tension that existed between the United States and the soviet union for decades. We should have a blended twospeed approach which says we will confront you, china, on intellectual property theft. We will confront you on your excessive claims of territoriality in the South China Sea. We will confront you when you seek to intrude on our elections, which i fear may happen this year. Much as russia did in 2016. So confront where we must, but cooperate where we can. Where can we cooperate . We can cooperate on the environment. We have a shared desire to address the environment more responsibly. I hope the Trump Administration or whatever administration comes into power in november, for example, will return to the paris peace accords. We could cooperate with china on the environment. We could cooperate with china in the arctic where china has significant desire to move through the seas as that ice is melting in the north. We could cooperate with china on medical diplomacy. How about the u. S. And china working together to address covid19 in the emerging markets around the world . Its the right thing to do from a humanitarian perspective and its also prague matically and prosaically for our economy so raw material can flow to china, to the United States for manufacture. We can cooperate with Disaster Relief when tsunamis go through the pacific. The United States has hospital ships and deployed as a senior admiral to latin america and indian ocean. China has hospital ships, can they Work Together . We should confront where we must, cooperate where we can. And third and finally, we need to be respectful of china, their history, their culture. One of the chapters in sailing true north is about a chinese admir admiral who in the early 1400s was conducting voyages throughout the South China Sea and the indian ocean all the way to the coast and into africa, a remarkable mariner, we need to understand that culturement that doesnt mean we are going to acquiesce in claims to own the entire South China Sea, but we need to put ourselves in the shoes of china, study them, understand them, read their literature, if were going to do the first two steps that i mentioned. That would be my prescription for dealing with china as we go forward. Thanks for a great question, jim. Host next call for admiral staff discomes from perry from detroit. Caller hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a comment and a quick question to the admiral. Again, my name is perry and like i said, thank you for the call. Im also a navy vet. I was a cryptologist for the navy i served even though i in in the navy i served mostly on air force bases part of the navy group activity. The admiral said something about service and im a huge proponent of service. I work for the va. How do we turn or reinvigorate the conversation about personal service for our country at this time where it seems like the narrative now is everything is about me, me, me, or about more darker parts of our country. How do we turn the conversation into americans serving america as a whole . And thank you for taking my call. Host admiral. Guest what a deeply meaningful question, perry. Thank you. And as the saying goes, thank you for your service. Im glad to be talking to a fellow navy vet and thank you for your work with our veterans. And i think that that entire organization, the Veterans Administration headed up by a good friend of mine Robert Wilkinson at the moment previously headed up by mcdonald, a west point graduate, you are all serving the country and you are part of this culture of service. You asked the gut question, how can we effectively move the nation to sail true north . And i think that service is an enormous part of it. Ill give you thee quick ideas, this is part of a much longer conversation. Number one is, those who are serving need to talk about it, need to talk to others in our communities. They need to be active roll models. They need to be engaged. They need to post what theyre doing on instagram and linkedin and facebook and twitter. Talk about service, all of us need to do that. Maybe not everyones going to write a book about it, but every bit counts because our National Life is an enormous conversation. And it zigs and zags and its a big, messy chewy conversation and thats the beauty of america and its also one of our challenges. Were not an authoritarian country where just one set of voices predominates. So number one, perry, lets all of us, who are involved in service and believe in its importance, lets all talk about it both personally, on social networks, in every way that we can imagine. Write a letter to the local newspaper. Take the question that you just asked me and frame it and send it to the detroit newspaper. So thats number one. We have to be talking about it. Number two is, to all of us, and i say this again as a centrist and as a registered independent, vote for candidates who you think will treasure the idea of service at every level. Look at a candidates background and say to yourself as a voter, is this candidate going to be somebody who personifies service, who will enbrace the idea of service and support those who go into service. Believe me, i understand how politically loaded a comment like that is today and here, i am talking to you whether you wake up in the morning watching morning joe on msnbc, and by the end of the night youre watching to see what Rachel Maddow says on msnbc or you wake up in the morning with fox and friends, youre on there with brian kilmeade, a friend of mine, for example, and by the end of the night, you cant wait to hear what sean hannity has to say. Im talking to everybody across the political spectrum. We ought to get behind candidates who believe in service, and ill tell you why, because service, at the end of the day, service is nonpartisan. Bipartisan and nonpartisan. So i think as voters, we ought to be looking for candidates who embody the kind of qualities that led you, perry, to join the u. S. Navy and continualize the service with Veterans Affairs and thirdly, and again, this is a longer conversation, i suppose, but a third idea is we are incentivized service, we ought to have a system and we do this to some degree today, for example, the military has the ability to go into the military and collect something called the gi bill that will help pay their education later on. We need comparable programs in my view for other blocks of service, for ents and peace corps volunteers and teachers in Rural Communities or in underserved communities in our cities. We need to incentivize service, i think a good way to do that is through education or other benefits, including some level of federal, when you buy your first house, for example. Weve had that culture for the military for decades. It would be a good idea to expand that. I think that would be money well spent. So perry, there are three very quick ideas, and i hope youll be my shipmate and we say in the navy and continue to work on all aspects of this great challenge for america in this 21st century, in this particular challenging moment. Host and we have one hour left with our in depth guest, admiral james stavridis. Author of several books, 2027488200 if you live in east, 7488201 pacific time zones, send an email cspan. Org. And text a message in, if you text a message in, if you would include your first name and city just like we ask for our callers, 2027488903 is the text number. And finally, we have several social media sites all ready to take your comments, facebook, twitter, instagram. Remember, book tv is our handle. Albert from arkansas. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. At this time very few people american citizens understand countries and how people are in other countries around the world. Theyre, you know, poverty status or rich status, their education status and one of the things that i ended up joining the peace corps when i was a young man back in the 70s, and theres nothing like firsthand knowledge about who people are, how they feel, how they feel about america, and all of the poverty. You dont look at people if you lived in Central America for eight or nine years, as being poor. And so i would like you to talk a little more about the service, if you can, as far as peace corps, and i appreciate your service, of course. And its amazing how balanced you are, balanced in education, balanced in reading. Also, i would say that reading for high school students. Im hoping youre involved with that some of that. Thank you very much, sir. Host admiral. Guest thank you, sir, albert. And again, ill return the compliment as i did to my Navy Shipmate perry a moment ago, albert, and say thank you for your service in the peace corps. I agree with you with all of my heart about the importance of the peace corps. Let me say a couple of specific comments there. So as peter said a little while ago, when i finished up my 37year career in the navy, you know, my long, misspent youth in the navy, i started to think about, you know, what could i do next with my life . And you know, i started to ask mentors and everybody had plans for admiral staff disand some people said you need to go in the Defense Industry and work on High Technology products and others said you need to go to business and focus on the emergence of tech. Others said, you could go and be an Operations Director for a big Nongovernmental Organization like the red cross. You know, there were a lot of good ideas and i weighed them and i asked the mentor that i respect the most of all the people ive had the privilege to work for and be around and thats, i mentioned him earlier, secretary of defense robert gates and secretary gates, instead of immediately giving me the plan for stavridis, secretary gates said, well, you know, admiral, what kept you in the navy for 37 years . That would give you some clue as to what you might want to do next. And i thought about it, it was a great question. I hadnt really thought of it in that context. What had kept me in the navy . And you know, theres a lot i liked about the navy. I liked, you know, wearing sharp looking uniforms and i liked going to sea, operating a ship on the ocean and i liked travelling around the world. I mean, i liked all of those things. The thing i loved was mentoring young people, was taking care of young sailors, and helping guide the gorgeous trajectory of their lives. So i said that to secretary gates and he said, you should go into education. And you know, those were the most powerful words for me and you know, we forget this about secretary gates. Everyone can remember that he was director of the cia and everyone can remember he was the secretary of defense in both the bush and the obama administration. What did he do in the middle . He was the president of texas a m. Before that the dean of the bush school at texas a m. He helped me become the dean of Fletcher School of law and diplomacy. That, albert, was where i really came in contact with the peace corps because the large he is single cohort, background of all of these marvellous graduate opportunities to who come to the Fletcher School was the peace corps. I met so many bright young men and women who took two years out of their very busy and impactful lives and devoted them to effectively mentoring others. Thats what you do in the peace corps typically. Youre teaching literacy to agriculture to cultural education. Its a marvellous way for somebody to give to the world, but at the same time, to serve the United States because by becoming a peace corps volunteer, you go and represent your country in the best possible way, in a way that young people of other nations look up to and respect. You are really putting your time where your idealism is. Not everybody does that. So i have enormous respect and ill close on the peace corps, albert, by simply saying that one of our very close family friend is the cooksey family and one of their young daughters, young by my standards, somebody in their 20s, just came back from two years as a peace corps volunteer and we were at a wedding of her brother just a few days a few months ago, and i had a chance to really sit and talk to her in depth about her experiences in east africa. Its a wonderful way to serve the country. I completely commend it to any who may be listening and again, we ought to incentivizize it as going into peace corps. Two thumbs up for the peace corps. Host before we get to the next caller ive been pronouncing your name for years as stavridis. Im hearing Something Different from you, correct . I say stavridis, that sounds roughly like youre pronouncing my name. Lately i have been called everything you can imagine and the most common mispronunciation is admiral stradivarius. It works and youve got it just right. Host all right. Jerry in brooklyn, please go ahead with your question or comment for admiral stavridis. Caller stradivarius. That was a change for you, i cannot think of a better person with the balance and your thought process to work with young people. I, too, worked in nonprofit for 35 years with people with disabilities, foster care kids, battered women, disabled vets, homeless, formerly incarcerated and its not about making money, i never made a lot of money in my life admiral, but its about giving back and helping those that are less fortunate. I think thats a career, just a great move that you made and i know the young people are going to be very, very thankful down the road. You know, i just want to say thank you very much for the Ivy League Education today and you picked up where you left off. When i was watching you on cspan sailing true north ten admirals, and as soon as i heard you argue about character, that transcends leadership and is the enabler of leadership, you quoted you liked to quote short people, you told me, like napoleon who said a leader is a dealer in hope. You mentioned michelle howard, 4 foot 10 africanamerican young lady that came from a challenging background, that took down the somalia pirates to become the first fourstar admiral, africanamerican woman, a person you said that had immense character. And i just want to get theres one thing i want to ask you before i go, admiral. And in your threestep plan with china, i did not hear you mention anything about the media. You have a picture hanging up in your office, you said, of the u. S. S. Maine that blew up in havana harbor in 1988 causing the outbreak of the spanishamerican war. It was a lot of media with their yellow journalism like Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer that claim the spanish war responsible for blowing it up. I think you used the word that they were actually called terrorists back then. Later on, you mentioned terry, can you get to your question quickly. Caller yes, im sorry. Later on when the navy salvaged a ship i apologize, were going to leave it there. A lot on the table for the admiral to respond to. Guest jerry, ill finish your story for you, because its a good one. U. S. S. Maine, battleship blows up in havana harbor and immediately, the yellow journalists as you called them correctly spin the story of a mine thats placed on the exterior of the ship that blew it up, terrorists, by the spanish, we launch this war. In fact, when the navy salvaged the ship 50 years later, we discovered that it blew up because of an internal explosion, probably a boiler, or a powder magazine. So i keep a picture of the maine on my wall to remind me of that incident because there are two really powerful lessons there. The first one, pretty obvious. Wherever you are, however high and mighty you are, recognize that your ship can blow up underneath your feet at any moment. Have a plan b. Recognize that the world can change forever in an instant. Thats a good thing to hang on your wall. The second thing is really, the point you are making, jerry, which is that before you take precipitous action, before you limit your temper, in this case, start a war, or chew somebody out or fire somebody, before you do that, make sure you have all the facts right because so many times that initial set of facts which you are just so sure is accurate, turns out to be, not so much. Kind of like iraq, when the United States invaded iraq. We knew that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. That was false intelligence as it turns out. Nobody lied, but our Intelligence Community got it wrong. They got it terribly wrong and we ended up going to war. Think how different the world would be, who knows, better or worse, but how different the world would be if we had not launched into iraq. Another example. So, i think thats why i keep a picture of the battleship maine on the wall in my office wherever i am. And theres one here just outside that door. The other photo that i keep, which i hope you can see over top of me, is a picture much myself and senator mccain, just going to tilt that up for one second. Thats me and john mccain, senator mccain. Senator mccain is someone, in my view, who sailed true north. He made many mistakes in his life, personal and political, but he was a hero in the hanoi hilton. And when he went to congress to represent the state of arizona, he did what he thought was right, without currying fear or favor as the saying goes. I think in addition to stories as part of america, the story of the maine, i think its important to have people that you respect and you can look at their story and i think what youll find for most people is that those stories of personal challenge and overcoming a challenge, like being a prisoner of war. They deepen the character, and knowing people like that who then sail true north in their lives i think is an important element of finding your own voice of character. Host all right, admiral. Were going to play the who is this game again. Who is another video clip of somebody you mentioned in sailing true north. Every morning we were required to make our bed to perfection, that seemed a little ridiculous at the time, particularly in light of the fact that we were aspiring to be real warriors, tough, battle hardened seals, but the wisdom of the simple act has been proven to me many times over. If you make your bed every morning you will have accomplished the first task of the day and give you a small sense of pride and encourage you to do another task and another and another, and by the way end of the day, that one task completed will have turned into many tasks completed. Making your bed will reinforce the fact that the Little Things in life matter. If you cant do the Little Things right, youll never be able to do the big things right. Host admiral. Guest easy one again, my very dear friend admiral bill mcraven. Many of you will have seen his book make your bed, the speech at university of texas also entitled make your bed. Ill tell you why i included bill mcraven in my book, not because he was a seal, not because hes a thinker and a writer, all of those things are true. I included bill mcraven in my book because hes very resilient. An enormous part of character is how you perform in adversity. I think it was abraham lincoln, by the way, who said nearly all men can stand adversity if you would test a mans character, give him power. And i think that admiral mcraven kind of personifies that for me. Hes resilient. He handles being in a position, a powerful position, extremely well and in bills case, in particular, he has dealt with medical challenges in ways that i cant comprehend. Ive been very lucky in my life to be extremely healthy. Im sitting in a wooden chair, but ive never broke and bone, ive never had a stitch in my body, never spent a night in the hospital. Im in my 60s, ive been very lucky. Bill mcraven not so much and just two examples, as a relative relatively senior officer he was in a serious accident. Parachute partially opened, how he survived that, but ended up hospitalized for a significant period of time. As a result, he was not part of the first wave in the war on terrorism, despite the fact that he had trained his whole life as a seal and here he was in the hospital bed. He came back from that injury, went on to a career as a senior seal officer. And then ended up with a form of leukemia, very debilitating one that creates cycles of taking chemicals and then having it reverse for a period of time and then back again. He has dealt with that soicly, quietly. Stoically, quietly, he doesnt trumpet the fact, he deals with it. I remember talking to him once when we were both fourstar admirals, sitting in the bus driving back from dinner at the white house with president obama, as a matter of fact, and i turned to bill and sort of said, you know, how you doing . How you doing with the leukemia . And he said, jim, its just another mission. I deal with it every day. And you know, thats bill mcraven. Hes got that kind of resilience that i have a lot of respect for and thats why i included bill in sailing true north and he certainly does sail true north. Host lets hear from paul from orlando. Caller good morning, peter, thanks for taking my call, cspan. Admiral, what a treat it is for a landlubber, to talk to you. Every now and then i catch the admiral on morning dope. I do value your opinion, admiral. Im very concerned about how aggressive china is becoming and peter, forgive me, i came in mid program so if this is redundant, im sorry. You know, id like to get i have some idea of my own on what a response to them breaking the treaty over hong kong would be, and would like to get your comments, admiral. I dont see anything wrong with telling china theres no student visas this fall at any american universities. I dont see anything wrong with kicking some of the chinese governmentowned companies off the New York Stock Exchange and i would love for the World Trade Organization to reclassify china not as a developing country, but as a developed country. Ill take my comments off the air. Peter, we love you on cspan2, but miss you on washington journal. Thanks, gentlemen, and have a good weekend. Host admiral. Guest paul, thank you. A couple of points. We did cover some of this, but well build on it and ill pick up on your point. I think all the things you mentioned are examples of very reasonable responses that ought to be considered as part of a larger strategic framework and thats, i think, you would probably agree just listening to you, what we need here is not an oncie, twosie, we have this credential and i think theyre worth mentioning. In addition to ones i mentioned earlier in the show, a very important element in this is taiwan. Unlike hong kong, which is part of chinas sovereign territory, the World Community acquiesced in that in 1997, with the caveat for 50 years following 1997 that hong kong would enjoy status as the socalled one nation, two systems. In other words, they would have a distinct system of jurisprudence, a distinct set of laws and regulations dealing with arrests. They would have a distinct economic situation, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. China is violating that now and so, in addition to the points you made, in addition to the things i mentioned earlier, i would add, we ought to be looking at our relationship with taiwan because theres real leverage there. China resolutely and determi determinedly wants to pull taiwan into the chinas sovereign they believe that taiwan is already in chinas sovereignty. We have an ambiguous relationship with taiwan. We could build on that by increasing weapons sales to taiwan, by conducting more military operations there, by having our destroyers, cruisers and Aircraft Carriers pull into taiwanese ports, into taipei, in all of the places where all of these are port visits we could be conducting. All of this would, i think, give china pause. It would be deeply annoying to china, but it would also give pause to them. So, i think we need a spectrum of responses, some military, some diplomatic, for example, with taiwan. Some that are importantly economically based, education, as you suggest, to track diplomacy. All of that needs to be part of our approach with china and it needs to be done coherently and as part of a holistic plan. I want to make a really important point here by the way. We have hundreds of thousands of millions of Chinese Americans who live here in the United States. Many have been here for many generations. Some have more recently arrived. One of them is my soninlaw, dr. Jimmy wong. Jimmy is a first generation american. He is the first of his family born here. His parents immigrated here as students. His mother became a very successful dentist. His father became a very successful investor. Jimmy is a physician. Hes on the front line of covid. Hes a result of the immigration the United States has enjoyed it china over the years. So we need to be very careful here that as we seek to bend our relationship with china in more appropriate ways, for example, i completely agree following with your comment about china and the World Trade Organization. We need to be careful we dont break that relationship and end up in a very severe cold war f or, god for bid, a shooting war. There are deep cultural and diplomatic and personal relationships that are at play here, including someone i regard as a real hero, my soninlaw, who is a physician, dr. Jimmy wong. Host and admiral stavridis stavridis has had a novel on the next world war. This is a text message for you, admiral. Im a 33year active duty officer. Why are more americans not as extremely concerned with american statues, grant, washington, other great u. S. Historical figures are being gleefully taken down . Our history is definitely under attack by the left wing. Is simply is. Thoughts . I disagree with most of what i just heard, although i agree with the portion of it. So let me try and unpackage that. First of all, i do not believe any statue anywherever should be torn down by a mob. Thats just not, in my view, not appropriate. We ought to have a National Conversation and we are beginning to, about which statues of what individual from what period of history, ought to be reexamined. And for my money, as i look at the spectrum, i would say that, for example, the confederate generals and admiral who took up arms against the United States of america, therefore, were by definition traitors, not only to their oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States, but also took up arms against their nation in defense of a system that included slavery, i dont think those individuals pass muster, to use a military term, to have statues put up about them and i think that where there are such statues and there are many of them around the country, i think its time to have a commission, probably will come to the conclusion, as i have, that its time to take them down. Put them in a museum. Study the history of the civil war. Its a cautionary tale for our time. So i think confederate generals and admirals should not be glorified with statues in our public places. On the other hand, we have, our Founding Fathers and i am well aware of the instances that my fellow veteran points out, systems of individuals who have gone after a statue, for example, of general and president grant. I am very aware of the movement to take down statues of Thomas Jefferson, who was a slave owner, for example. I can understand that emotion, but i think thats a different set of circumstances than the ones i mentioned a moment ago. And so, the world shouldnt make these decisions based on retired admiral jim stavridisviewsment we ought to have a collective conversation. My vote would be take down the statues, take down the monuments of confederate admirals and generals. For my money, washington, jefferson, grant, not perfect, slave owners, but in the Broad Spectrum of their lives and times, their contributions are striking and their statues and monuments need to remain on display. Perhaps indicating that in addition to all that is known, making the point that jefferson held slaves. Thats a valid historical point. To me it does not rise to the level of tearing down the Jefferson Memorial or tearing down monticello, his home outside of charlottesville where my daughter went to university. Theres room for conversation there. I dont believe ever that mobs should be tearing down statues or tearing down anything else. I would guess if i sat down with my brother officer we could have a meaningful conversation about his concern, my concern, and it might be a microcosm of the kind of conversation the nation should be having. Host steven is calling in from bremerton, washington. Steven, thats a navy town, isnt it . It sure is. Please, go ahead. Caller excuse me, fact i want to talk about the u. S. S. Stennis that comes in to get fit. Im a korean war veteran. As the admiral knows the army is in the process of contemplating name changing and im thinking about one that the navy might consider and thats the u. S. S. Stennis. I wonder often how often the sailors on that ship, particularly the black ones, have any knowledge of the man for whom their ship is named. John stennis became a u. S. Senator from mississippi in 1947 and served in the senate in 1989. And he voted innumbererable times against all civil rights legislation and he also voted against a proposition for dr. Martin luther kings birthday to be a national holiday. And he got a ship named after him. Not because he was a segregationist, but because he was ahead of Appropriations Committee and whenever the navy would show up in front of him with their request for the coming year, he was only too happy to fulfill them because he was a big fan of the military. Host all right, steven, lets get an answer from admiral stavridis. Guest terrific question. Another good example of National Level conversation we ought to be having. And i think that someone like john c. Stennis of whom im not deeply versed, but i believe he was also a prosecutor who prosecuted or failed to prosecute a significant case involving the murders of africanamericans in mississippi. I dont know all the details of that. You correctly point out from my iment willed level of knowledge about john c. Stennis, his propensity to be very supportive of segregation and utterly failed policy in every dimension. So i would certainly be open to a conversation about u. S. S. John c. Stennis and whether or not that would be part of such a sweep of name changes. In the good news category, as you may or may not know, the u. S. Navy Just Announced that it would name its next Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier the u. S. S. Doris miller. I know a lot about doris miller, who was an africanamerican, came out of texas, preworld war ii, ended up as a cook because thats about all you could do in the navy, before we managed to get away from segregation in the u. S. Navy. And on december 7th, 1941 dory miller, nicknamed, was a cook working in the mess and heard the attack on pearl harbor, charged up to the bridge of the ship, tried to save the life of the Commanding Officer of the ship, and then went down to the firing deck on the ship, took personal command, if you will, charge of one of the antiwar air guns, probably shot down a japanese aircraft, untrained to do that. No regard for his life or his safety. He was awarded the navy cross, the second highest decoration. Probably should have gotten the medal of honor, but the good news, again, the navy is now chosen to name the next nuclear Aircraft Carrier dory miller. So ship names always have a little bit of controversy to them. I think as i look at navy ship names, there are a couple of others in addition to the john c. Stennis we ought to look at. We have an oceanography ship the maury after an officer. The chancellors bill named for the con federal name of the battle. These are things that are worth looking at alongside the pretty obvious ones to me are the Army Installations around the country, which are named for beauregard, lee, and took up arms. And the others, lets have a conversation, lets take this as a national teachable moment and lets move forward in a way that does not tear apart or destroy our history. I dont think thats whats happening here, but history is like a river. The plains indians say you never cross the same i ever twice because the river moves on. Thats what history is, its a river. We need to look at it with clear eyes, understand that the river has moved on. What does that mean for us as a nation . I think thats an important conversation. Host admiral, how did we get to where fort bragg and fort hood were being named after confederate generals . Some of these were named in the 1940s during world war ii. They were, and this is a long, complicated story that has to do with things that were going on in the south at that time. And in many cases, these were collections of southerners who felt as though the south would rise again or had been unjustly invaded pie the north. I mean, this is part of the zeistgeist and part of a growing sense in the early part of the 20th century that we need today somehow glorify, the proud south and this is part of the rise of the ku klux klan, and Many Political figures, woodrow wilson, named as part of this kind of thinking. Again, that river has moved on, and its time that we had that conversation, made those changes. I would be very surprised if these bases are not changed. I would be very surprised if the robert e. Lee statues and high schools are not addressed. The and i think its high time they were. Host in sailing true north, you wrote about admiral chester nimitz as a leader of leaders. But added he was not respectful of women how to address nimitz in that regard. He comes out of texas like dory miller who i was spoking about a moment ago. Hes never seen the ocean when he goes off to annapolis, yet, he rises to become the most iconic war fighting admiral in american history. He takes command of the pacific fleet, not as he always thought he would standing on the deck of a big, beautiful battleship. He takes command after pearl harbor. Every battleship is sunk in pearl harbor. The spell of cordite from explosions is it still in the air when he takes command a couple of weeks later. Bodies are attempted to be exhumed, there are still hundreds of them in the arizona today. He takes command of a broken, shattered u. S. Fleet and what does he do . Resilience. He builds teams. He quietly takes the very best of the existing staff. He reshapes them. He finds the war fighting leaders, like bull halsey, who was a handful, to operate with, but he also finds of kind of quiet warriors like admiral raymond spruen. He figures out how to tag team their qualities in commanding parts of the pacific fleet. He has would work with douglas macarthur, an enormous ego as essentially his army counterpart in the mass stiff pacific theater. He does everything right in terms of prosecuting that war. Battleship, and signs on behalf of the United States the document of surrender with the japanese empire. Its a pretty remarkable swing. Along the way he was, like many of his time, not respectful of women or their role. He was not respectful of people of color. He was, in that sense, a product of his tim people of color, he was a product ofes his times, he would not in my view say to ourselves, he washe this way in the 1940s, we will judge him by the standards of the 2020s, i dont think that is a valid test. But that is different than Stonewall Jackson taken up arms against the United States of america, killing thousands and thousands of Union Soldiers in defense of slavery, two very different cases, so i stand with chester and honoring m his memo, again putting in the context and understanding the history of what he is doing. I will close by saying this, we are doing things now, i am sure that in 50 years, people will look back on us, choices we have made of Artificial Intelligence of bilateral ethics, we are doing things now that in 50, 70, 100 years will look so wrong, the river of history will move on, it will judge us as well, i am willing to be judged and i hope that those who judge me 100 years from now understand the context of the times but also are willing to make hard decisions about my legacy, whatever it is. Walter, st. Johns arizona, please go ahead. Hello admiral, first of all i like to thank you for coming on cspan and also cspan inviting you in as a guest from the way that you answer questions and make presentations, yourle collective thinking, cognitive thinking is so superlative, youre probably in the top three. And im next navy, i love the navy, their ship was a destroyer and dbh 62 and i left the navy 1084, i love the navy and realize the navy is the number one spokesperson for the United States, us sellers were all over the world and people in those countries went out of their way to talk to us and asked us questions so we were pr representatives. I was the first person offff the ship and usually the last person back on, any place we stopped every blockto or two and we foud some but he spoke english and ask questions about the country, the people in the one common denominator all over the world that people have regarding americans, they cannot understand why the americans are so happy. That means something that the americans were so happy, i have two questions, i everyone on the military would love to hear answers for. In general, we have touched upon these two questions but not directlyly, based on the state f things that matter in the world today, imba sure you remember back walter if you can get to your questions very quickly, i appreciate that. Number one question is, how would you rate the nonnuclear war standing of the world right now, is a very good. Second question. Second question is, knowing what you know, what would be the top four circumstances that can happen in reality that would trigger world war iii. Thank you, sir, i appreciate that. Go ahead admiral. Those are big questions, i would say if it were clock and when the clock turned to midnight, we end up with a world war, i think the clock is summerlike a quarter of, 200 another words its a real possibility but i dont see it imminent or about to happen, in other words i think about t the clock with the cuban missile crisis which i think you will get into, i would say the hands of the clock were about two minutes to midnight. So we are safer than we were at the height of the cold war in a cuban missile crisis kind of situation, you asked for four scenarios, im really going to give you two although there outlined on it, the two possibilities that could drag us into a world war would be a conflict between china and the United States which could occur in the South China Sea as a result inadvertently of the two navies bumping up against each other an incident that escalates, even as redoing the Great Program for cspan2 at the moment, there are two Navy Carrier Battle Groups in the South China Sea, these are seized that china claims as territorial waters, from the chinese perspective, we have two carrier battle groups steaming around the great lakes of the unitedst states. Could that escalate, possibly. Again, that would be an escalation id be concerned about particularly. A second one would be a cyber attack, this could come from china, russia, even north korea, iran have significant Cyber Capabilities and we think to ourselves, how back in a cyber attack be, i wont be able to go on the internet for a couple of days. Think again, the internet of things as it is called today has about 20 billion devices on it and it is the backbone for transportation, electricity, water, all of the fundamental into structure inin our societya cyber attack that went after infrastructure here in the United States would demand a significant response and i think that would be an escalation. I will throw one other one into the mix and that would be russia in a scenario in a scenario where russia has a dramatic of leadership, i think thats unlikely, i think Vladimir Putin has solidified his control over that country. But i see scenarios where russia falls out of totalitarian control if you will and yet russia has 8000 nuclear weapons, that is very concerning and forth and finally in pakistan, there are two Nuclear Armed powers who are constantly at each others throats at the moment the Nuclear Capability of both is under control and under good control of the military in both countries. , that could certainly lead to a Nuclear Exchange which would be disastrous globally. There is some scenarios the audit keep you awake at night but again i want to leave you with the thought that we have been in a worse position before, i think we were much more at risk, cubansk missile crisis fie minutes to midnight, two minutes to midnight, today i think we are 20 minutes to midnight meaning all of the scenarios i talked about will be time to allow diplomacy and economics and other nonmilitary aspects to help pull us back, that is certainly my hope. 11 minutes left with my gue guest, nancy st. James city florida. Hi. Fascinating show, thank you for taking my call, i wanted to talk for a minute about leading up to your next book in the preface to my question is that my husband and i were at the southern festival of books in october 2019, that Elliott Ackerman who was aas thoughtful speaker and on a panel also recorded on cspan also book tv discussing more in the military he written places and names and returning and he was sitting with another author who wrote the book the crowded hour. It was a Great Program so we met him and im curious about o the process of you cowriting your next book 2034 with someone like elliott versus writing novels on your own or nonfiction on your own and then could you give us a little insight or speak into your upcoming novel 2034 do out in march of 2021. Thank you nancy. I sure can, by the way robert byrd, is himself a very successful novelist writing historical fiction, whole series of books i devoured them about an American Naval captain peter at the end of the 19th century an early 20th century and please do my best to a dear friend and a great writer, ill tell you how i became a novelist, i wrote nine books and they were all nonfiction and ive always wanted to write a novely in one book list that i offer to people is two thirds fiction, i think weve learned from reading fiction, i went to my editor at the press, on wonderful guy scott i said scott im ready to write a novel and said youre a great writer but not a novelist. I said yes im i can write a novel, i know how to write a novel. He said all right, give me an outline and give me a chapter of this. I said admiral youre a great guy, youre a great writer, youre not a novelist. I was crushed but scott said i have an idea, im no novelist, elliott himself was with the National Book award with his second novel in elliott has a new novel out which i recommend is called red dress and black and white about a love triangle in instant bowl. So scott said how about you and elliott take your idea about a novel and a world war with china and collaborate. So i would do the outline, the big idea with the politics and strategy in the war fighting in the technology and someone who is a good novelist. And then prepeople and make a character of ally, i think it is a nice mix as it came out in the sneak peek is the subtitle which is 2034, that is the year, it set roughly 15 years from now, 2034, a novel of the next world war, its a story about how the United States were in fact stumble into a real war, shooting war with china, what would that look like, how would itul start, would there be nuclr exchange, would there be strategic Nuclear Exchanges or would it stop at tactical Nuclear Exchanges, what role would india play, because as the century unfolds in india is going to get more and more perfect. What isac the impact who get swt up in a global war and the cast of characters both has chinese and americans and indians and russians and iranians, its a very which palette of characters in it. It is also not a long book, its not like the winds of war and war and remembrance, it is not a techno thriller, its not tom claims he showing the latest device in the work. Its a cautionary tape about what the war might look like, what is impact would be on real people in countries and i think its a very moving book at the end of the day. I think of it as some of the literature that came out of the cold war was cautionary, the novel about the United States and russia almost getting into a nuclear war and having a ovtactical Nuclear Exchange and for an incident about a Navy Destroyer that seeks to track a Russian Submarine and the captain of that destroyer becomes a modernday ahab is a moby. Tracking the Russian Submarine and the cat masking that they play in the icy waters off the coast of greenland and iceland and how that could drag those two nations into a war or on the beach in australian about a Nuclear Exchange that can contaminate the world environment. These are cautionary tales, they are novels, they are fiction, theyre not designed to a be predictive, there hopefully the officer of predictive and that they areos cautionary. As we do with all authors that are on indepth, we ask them what some of their favorite books are, what theyre currently reading, admiral sent us two t pages worth but were going to show you a couple which includes margaret, the handmaids tale, blood meridian, barbara, brief history of seven killings by marlon james and some other books that he included with the bonfire the vanity, underground railroad, hillary, the handmaids tale admiral . What . A marvelous work of imagination, im going to get many people will have seen this series on Cable Television which i think is okay, the book is so chilly that itll stop your heart, its about a patriarchy that dominates women and the ultimate authoritarian state it isin deeply moving, beautifully written, every year peter when the nobel prize for literature is announced, i wake up hoping that its going to be Margaret Atwood because of the scope of her imagination, she won the booker prize twice and is among the greatest of living writers, shes canadian for folks who do not know that, the Handmaid Tale is ultimatee cautionary tale for our time about an in game of authoritarian state, to be the full book. Currently reading the splendid and the vile by erik larson, the look at Winston Churchills leadership during the london blitz, the last hotel by emily st. John and red dress in black and white by Elliott Ackerman who is the coauthor of his upcoming new novel 2034, charles and fayetteville, north carolina, we are one and a half minutes. Good morning or good afternoon, thank you very much for taking t my call, admiral i also am a u. S. Navy jet having served the line mccormick as a vietnam war and i have one very important question for you i think, what are your thoughts regarding a person who has not always lived their lives ceiling true north and he wants to in their years on this earth in thats direction, that is to say making the necessary course changes in their life that their life may exemplify sailing through. Thank you very much for your service. Thank you very much for yours as well. I remember line mccormick very well, i think time for time i was adams class ddg and it was the most powerful small fix that we ever put in the cities, hello for sailing in a real disorder, its a good way to enter conversation today. I could not have scripted it better if i written the last gaquestion myself, again i wanto go back to john mccain whose portrait is above me, p john mccain was the first to admit that his wife was not always failing through north, any of us who are honest would say all of our lives are a series of right standard writer, maybe backing down a little from time to time, the more you sale at sea, the more you y understand that you n recover the course, you can come back from a bad turn, you can reverse course completely if you really got off the rail and there are so many instances of that in literature, and life, i think we need to celebrate those who have that capability above all, some people are very lucky and they kind of instinctively sale through, my wife norah is like that, she is the purest, good is part of anybody i know, very few people are like that, the vast majority of us had to find our way on the compass rose to sale through north, i can only encourage everybody to do three things, think about it in a quiet hour of the night, ask yourself, how am i doing. Number two, look for examples in lifepl of people who are doing that and who are coming back from deeply challenging situations, that is what ceiling true north is often about in my book. Number three, read, read, read, find those stories the celebrate with others, thank you for a great question and for your service in the navy. As admiral writes in his most recent book ceiling true north, the outline of success are not always apparent in early exploit. Admiral, thank you for being on book tv for the past two hours, we appreciate it. The fastest two hours of television. Thanks a lot. This morning the House Rules Committee wants to discuss a debate related to the impact of the coronavirus on the u. S. Postal service, live coverage starts at 11 on cspan2 and online at cspan. Org or listen live with the free cspan radio app. Good morng