Host welcome to book tv and in depth. This is a Monthly Program with one author, talking about his or her book and we are pleased this month to be joined by west moore who is the author of three books plus Childrens Book in a novel. In his first book came out in 2010. Its called the other west more braided is a bogeyman in 2015 in this most recent book is about baltimore during the arrest and death of freddie great and just come out five days. Thats what that is called but in your folks, you write is a military save your life. What you mean by that. Wes moore i think of the military played an incredibly Important Role in my life where some of the most important times of my life is wearing suits, tshirt and jeans were is very uniform in this country. I was first introduced in the military system actually one is about 13 years old. I was into a military school. And there was issues and challenges and when i was younger, my mom was pregnant when we went to military school. I was eight years old. Every year she said i would send you away. I kept blowing her off and the first time that felt and you can my wrist was about 11 years old braided my mother noticed that i was intentionally hurting people that actually left me. So i can impress people. So finally one day, she left me and she said, im going to send you to military school. And honestly i thought she was kidding or exaggerating. And then finally realized that she wasnt in sheeps intimate to a mandatory military school for a year. I hated it. Those first days there. A runaway little times braided five times in the first days of military school. The longer i stayed, i began to fully understand what it was that they were trying to teach me and also what it was that my mom was trying to teach me. In fact we did live in an interconnected environment. And how everybody was doing in my unit manner to how unit as a whole was doing. And so when ashley finished high school and i had a chance than to, do a collection of things. I decided the things that i actually wanted to do in some electron, as i wanted to lead soldiers. So i wanted to join the army. So for me, the decision to go into the army was a continuation of the fact that had this level of service and how pay for college and that was very helpful. There was also this idea that i felt a debt of gratitude reason felt like it was the introduction of that and really crucial time in my life that really helped made a lot of difference. Peter so what was ruled the 82nd airborne. Wes moore so it was a parent trooper in the 82nd division. My final role in afghanistan was director of operations for the airborne addition. As a long way of saying what we had in terms of information ops, psychological operations and then we had within our entire area of operations which was with the call rce. Regional command in the entire east or region. Where pakistan and afghanistan for each other. Im in charge of the operations for that. At the time, when i was leaving afghanistan, we headed up 1700 paratroopers that were under our command. We were responsible for. It was an amazing and inspiring experience. Peter how is it the you changed after that first year in military school as a 12 your old me too movement. Wes moore yes. I would say the big thing that changed for me was there was this introduction of leadership. What it means and what it meant. In the role that it played in my life. If where i felt like military school give me a chance to in a way a remake of identity. That was important. It was a re a chance for me to y big role. And some other things were there was this very intentional introduction of leadership. And thats matters. Sometimes people say military school, yeah you know, they need discipline. They do pushups when they wake up early. And you do do pushups need to wake up early. It is true. But, that is not what make the experience useful for me. The thing the main nature is useful for me was this introduction to leadership. It is this idea that they were very much going to introduce you to leadership early. In a very deliberate way. Youre in charge of something. Initial basic training or whatever it is. It was her charge of something. Relatively early and relatively small. And its not because thats where your campuses because they want you to get a taste. So if theyre going to put you inside in charge of a hallway. When the dumpsters or whatever. Keep it clean, will congratulate you. If it is dirty, we will help you. And once i notice that youre doing a job, then you will be promoted they can onto the next day. Maybe now youll have a couple of soldiers under command. Then you move up. And so theres this gradual responsibility about the way they try to teach your leadership. That i think are not only useful and important. But also there was something that really give me taste about what was actually important. I knew going in that leading people was important to me. I knew going in the weather it was in the case of leading cadets or soldiers or think about the work that we do now. Being able to be part of the process. To be the person who can help shape and election of organization. That is something that became really important to me. And my development. In the frameworks of how to do it but also the introduction of the complexity of my life was some of the military help. Peter wes moore how did you become scholar. Wes moore the truth is that actually think about the experience quite a bit because the first time i had a real conversation about the world scholarship was actually when i was interning. Merrill baltimore, kurt, a former scholar. And it was less to my internship and he called me into his office and he said of the picture. This is in my office. In the fishery standing there knees pointing to the patrons will. And i am saying that he was not the type of guy who had camera people following him around all of the time. As i him. But, on that day, on the final day of my internship pretty coming in and he said, he thought about scholarship. He knew my grades and my extracurriculars. I told them about it but hadnt thought about it. And victory took was in my its him pointing to the wall. The thing he is pointing at us is progress. And where he was in this picture. There was a moment when he told me about it. As you consider it. He also give me a search of i should talk to about it. And i did just that. I want to talk to scented people. In answer to people that help me with my essays and helping think about how do i express while attorney and a thousand words for the application. I love that story. Because in the office, there is my picture. Im very clear that picture would never happened if the other picture to happen. So it was an experience that i will never forget. Literally thing her plane flew off less than two weeks after 911. And when the nation in the world had just changed immeasurably. At the same time that i was having this experience. And i was shaped very much so fight 911. Especially for the fact because i was military officer creates a chance to Study International relations in a place where i was one of only only a few market studying it. He gave me a chance to truly study american internationals. The my class were from brazil and china nitrous yet. In argentina. Getting a chance to really understand how all of these dynamics take place amongst remarkable people who would become some of my very best friends. Its very special expressly a lot of thanks to kurt. And many others who really helped make that path for me. And how me realize it can actually be real. Peter what your view about taking money from the peoples money Rhodes Foundation what did you tell the others. Wes moore the last question asked me my interview was really spent time in south africa. Im also africanamerican. One of the last questions i was asked as chairman of the board, he said, listen you have been to south africa. Your africanamerican, how can you accept this money knowing the history. Knowing how he made it. And knowing the lives that were lost in order for him to make that money. And i thought about it in a positive you know, i know a few things for sure. One was that he was creating the scholarship. He did not have me in mind to be sitting here as a finalist for the scholarship money. And he is turning in his grave repeatedly knowing that i am here as a finalist for the scholarship aid and the other thing that shows me what progress means. And the fact that there was something that was not at all intended for. That i have it opportunity to not only stand here and utilize it but also have a real obligation richer youre doing something good with it yourself. Peter who fought and bled and built and were able to build in the way that created pathway for me at that moment. Who are in a dream for a world which agreement fight for one that hopefully one day i would do. And for me to have the opportunity and to be there. In that seat. For me to have an opportunity to then take the privilege of that seat and go out and fight the world. I felt it would be disrespectful to them not to. So understanding when youre looking at the history of roads and looking at the history of how to south africa the entire south africa region. In the damage that he did. To the people there. For some personal benefits. Knowing at that time he was the wealthiest man in the world. Its also not lost on the obligation that i know have to you, the benefit that were fought long and hard to have and use that now to make sure that we can create a more just and more fair world. Peter wear. He won i grew up in maryland and in the bronx. I call really two places home. What is baltimore. Actually where you live now that even though was actually born actually closer to the dc area. In the new york press been a lot of my childhood after my dad died. So when dad was a radio personality Janet Baltimore in the dc area. And one day he was complaining about his throat. And was saying how it was bothering him. And we went to the hospital that day. If he went to the hospital he was wearing friday had uneven beard. A lot of assumptions were made about my dad when he walked into the hospital that day. Looking for help and when my mom came into the hospital to join him they asked her questions like is your husband prone to exaggeration. They give them instructions to go home and rest and got worse, then come back. In five hours after they released him, he died. This morning were living down in maryland. My mom had really difficult time in the transition of the point. So the call of the grandparents who were living in the rocks in the grandfather was a minister. And my mother was a schoolteacher. The south bronx. The house was barely big enough for them. So they were trying to figure out a big weight picking up all of us. So moving up there, and that that point i spent six or seven years of my childhood there before a ended up going to go through school. My childhood was a lot of moving around. No matter where we move from my new header remarkable living family. Who is blessed to be able to say what they had, they tried to provide for us the best they could. And its always something that i felt. Peter from your first book, the other wes moore. My father was dead after five years after having been released from the hospital with simple instructions to get sleep. The same hospital preparing to sins by tomorrow. He had entered the hospital seeking help but is face was unshaven, his close shovel in the same unfamiliar in his address not in an affluent area. The hospital wanted him and insulted him with ridiculous questions and basically told him to fend for himself. Now my mother had to plan his funeral. What you think those assumptions for me. C1 racewes moore race. I think it is where we are now and when people say, and what point in your life did you know i understand the impact of gracerace. People were treated d. And when i think about the many systems that we have in place in our society whether its our Healthcare System are our education. Whether its thinking about Environmental Justice or educational things. It is impossible to talk about these things without understanding the role the race place. It is impossible to understand these things the systemic racism place. It is the fact that those factors been different, that have been mentioned before. There wouldve been dealt given that it benefited doubt been given, we would not of had the same type of result. This is something that i know is not just anecdotal. There is data the continues that raises one of the most predictable indicators like outcomes. Across several areas. Across education, cross mortality. Across mental and physical health read the thing that made that real in my case, in the case of my father. In the case of thinking about my family history. Is this idea that i know its inescapable to not understand the race, the impact of race. Peter who was the other wes moore. Wes moore a man, a young man who i heard about. Actually the same time i was getting ready to head off to england and as a baltimore son, they had an article about this little kid who just received this rhodes scholar. They were writing about my background in childhood and the fact that just ten years ago, i had an caps on my wrist enough ten years later, i was getting ready to help on a full scholarship. And what that looked like in the. Then run the same time, they were also writing about another. And these robberies where four guys went into a jewelry store. In the first two guys went in, they had guns. They got everybody in the ground. In the next two guys walked into the jewelry store, he pulled out mallets. One moved to the rafted one moved to the right. The one on the gun to people in the ground and the one of the mallets were smashing out jewelry cases. There were taking out jewelry. They got about 4000 of the jewelry that day. And all four of them ran out of the store. One of the people inside the store that day was off duty police officer. He was a 13 year veteran from a Baltimore Police force. He was a threetime recipient of a police of the year and he had just had triplets and he had five kids. It was his day off. And he took on a second job to make extra money. And when he ended up, then at the store. He got up off of the ground and drew his weapon and ran outside to stop the guys from getting away. And when he ran outside, hed try to give himself cover but what he didnt realize that one of the vehicles that was next to him, was one of the vehicles they were in. And when a rodeo and he was shot at pointblank range and killed instantly. And there ended up being a 12 day National Manhunt for this for guys. In all four guys part. And one had been captured and tried for the crime. Was one of the guys whos also name was wes moore. The more i learned about this crime. The more i learn about this tragedy. Often times in newspaper articles. The more i knew there were questions i wanted to ask. So one day i just decided to write a note in the first note i wrote him, hey west, my name is west. I heard about you this way. I knew where he was at the time so right there. In about a month later got a letter back from the Correctional Institution from westmore. In that one letter was fascinating to me. All of his answers, and that one letter turned into dozens of letters and dozens of visits. I have now known him for over 17 years and he is now in your 20 of his life sentence. Him and his older brother and two other guys were there. There the day of the crime. So that is who he was. In that initial letter really turned into something in the way that i thought about this. It really did help join our lives together. The chilling truth is historic couldve been mine. The tragedy is that my story could have been his rated in health and that Decision Making is. Sometimes it is about the small decisions that we make that we sometimes accidentally fall into. Sometimes the decisions that are made for us. Sometimes its a lack of options that we half of the decisions that we make. But how do society, we can not be so eager to congratulate the most we are actually willing to dig into their background and understand the things that make our stories rich and that make them real. And how to understand the neighborhoods. And the fact that for far too many more children, were screaming to them about what we want for them and what we expect from them. I remember once wes moore said to me, we were talking about baltimore prayed in the fact that we were living blocks away from each other in baltimore. And he to me, and i assume, do you think we are products of our environment. Talking about baltimore. And even said to me, actually think were products of our expectations. And susie said that to me, i thought to myself he is absolutely right. We are products of our expectations. And someone said to me thats a real shame that you lived up to years he did it. Nice actually the real shame is that we both did. Because in many ways, thats exactly how we have structured the societal system where people are continually living up to their expectations. So then the question becomes what expectations do we actually have. Peter and you quote the other wes moore talk to you. Your first book, who is wes moore. Both of us did some pretty wrong stuff when we were younger about the fuss at Second Chances. The situation on the context we make the decision, no change. The Second Chances dumped me too much. Wes moore and also, it is interesting to see is the Second Chances and for what. And i think that is the think that was important for me to be able to appreciate and understand and to be able to share. Is that every one of us needs Second Chances. It is not one of us who live our lives like anything is good. I tell people all the time, to sue the state, my days now are two steps forward and one step back. It is now. So the idea of getting Second Chances or whatever. That is a very humanistic need that will consistently be there. But were were not structured to do as a society is to have any form of parity or equal portions of what exactly that means. Right now we still no need to look at data reinforces it from everything a measure from our criminal justice systems, educational systems that we have massive disparities when it comes to everything from racing class about how these Second Chances are actually allocated and what we actually need Second Chances four. The fact is that we have people who are living in poverty, is like when people say, how does poverty show itself. In every way is the answer. And people drinking, the water that there drinking. It is how their beliefs are. Is what transportation act that you have around you. So unfortunately, if you are creating this concentrated level of poverty and injustice that it exists. And often times colorcoded poverty that exists. We also know this idea behind Second Chances really becomes fleeting. And so actually that experience, getting to know wes moore and building my friendship with wes moore. Frankly, we can see long after that book people have asked, why do you still tate and trent stay in touch with him. My answer is respectfully, i know why he is there. But the thing that i do know is even our worst decisions, i also know if were not willing to learn these lessons and why about the Second Chances. How they are supposed to me. Are we even giving people opportunity. That is something that is crucial about how we think about the world and our place in it. Peter anything about you telling his story. What did he think about it. Wes moore was one of the first them into when i went to this idea. I have a friend whos a remarkable writer she is like a real writer. She puts a lot of books. Shes incredibly talented. But she would always ask about him please i know about him for years before this idea of the book came about. She was asked, has a doing i would give her the update. And she when they said to me, i really think you should write about him. I think theres a bigger story to be told here. They said listen terry, nothing interested in writing a book. Im not trying to write a book. And wanted to get deeply into his life. I honestly dont want to dig deeply into my own reading and i want to talk to him about it and i would to go see him. And i asked him, so ive been approached about actually writing a story on our lives in a relationship. What you think. He immediately said to me, i think you should do it. Any said two things that always stuck with me. He said i have wasted every opportunity that i had in my life. Im going to die in here. If you can do something to help people understand the consequences for their decisions and also help people understand the neighborhoods. That these decisions are being made and, then you should do it. And that really they became the entire fire and focus behind doing this project was that it wanted people to understand not just the consequences of the decisions that people are making but also want people to understand the context of the decisions people raking in the neighborhoods they are making the men. It is something where remember one of the book was published. My editor called me up and sit hate great news, we just received word from that they wanted to do an interview with the other wes moore. Fantastic writer of the new york times, bestselling author, progressive. In a brilliant guy. And he writes remarkable things. He said i really enjoyed this book. It was race and class in about three weeks later. And propose methods that reduce. We just received word that michael was to write something based on your book. In the former speechwriter president bush, writer for washington post. Brilliant guy. A conservative. He said i really enjoyed the other wes moore in the basis was personal responsibility and individual choice. I thought this was fascinating. Here are two people who liked it but for two completely Different Reasons my wife asked me, anything is right. I said, honestly i think youre both right. Because you cant talk about societal responsibilities without understanding the end of the day, these are all still individual choices. Individuals will be held account for their choices. Good or bad. However you cannot talk about individual choice without understanding these individual choices are being made in its societal context. In that societal context has an influence on the type of choices that people are making. And so all of those things really help to tiein as to how i came to become the best story, was really not just illuminating to me but also very humbling. To see the way that i feel that it is translated across communities. And across wealth mind. Really help people to understand these conditions that we are asking people in the system. These things we are asking people to look at. We really have made as bargain where we are asking ourselves every single day, how much pain are we willing to tolerate. And as long as it doesnt impact us too much. And that bargain that i think that is eating away at all of our collective souls every single day whether we like it or not. Peter thank you for joining us on book tv. This is our monthly in Depth Program but we have one operon. Discuss his or her body of work and take your calls. This month it is author veteran rhodes scholar, former investment banker, wes moore. His book, the other wes moore came out in 2010 previous month the work searching for a life that came out in 2015. His most recent book which we havent discussed just is five days of the fiery reckoning of an American City. Is also written discovering him as a young adult. Take on the other wes moore in the novel called this way home which came out in 2016. Heres how you can participate in our conversation with wes moore. You can call them, 202 7488200 if you live in the Eastern Central time zone to into 7488201, for those of you in the mountain pacific time zones. It also text a question or comment to us more this way. 202 7488903. Make sure that you could get that correct pseudo syntax out to anybody but ourselves here. 202 7488903. We also have several social media sites where you can participate. Twitter, facebook, instagram. Just remember at book tv is our handle and you can go to the sites, one o. One of the ways book tv at cspan. Org. Via email. Will begin taking those calls and questions etc. s in just a few minutes. Wes moore, was a visitation process like to get into the jail system. Wes moore is changed now. Due to the covid19. So not allowed to have visitors read and to be honest, i am not sure. Actually right now, its pretty restrictive. Even amongst people where they are pretty often now. For 23 hours in individual cells due to covid19. Prior to that, its a pretty much of a owners process. Very individual because its not like theres a heavy encouragement for people to be able to help outside communication of people from family or friends. Often times look at situations where these facilities are newer near where the majority of people who are being held there actually live. This is not an easy process for people to be able to go visit. And then what you do, it is really pretty all day process. It takes to go in and go do a visit. You will go in and go through your searches in multiple searches rated and then you could wait for hours before you have a chance to see the person. And when you get a chance to see them, its a pretty restrictive time. If youre actually allowed to be able to interact. So for a lot of people, part of the publication of thing attached is a simple thing that is not an easy process to stay in touch also not easy in telephonic communications. We saw policies that exist right now the country that are actually charging exorbitant amount of money. And individuals to be able to stay in touch despite the fact that the best majority of peop people, all data continuing to show that if a person can keep contact with family and to that well they are incarcerated, they have a much better chance of reentry back into society in a stable and safe reentry into society. Because the vast majority of people will be coming home. And they will or are not there for life sentences or long sentences. The majority of them will be reentering our societies of the fact that we make it so complicated for people to not just stay in touch but also make the transition back is really benefiting nobody. These are all people who will be returning back to our society. Peter can you pinpoint a point in your life where you can see yourself as the other wes moore. Wes moore absolutely. I think that one of the things that got me about this whole process was how in many ways, arbitrary and in many ways, deliberate. To the way we have structured this entire framework. I remember, the first time that i felt intense on my wrist. And having at that point, no Real Authority or say as to how the next phase of my life was when go. I remember this idea of watching and being picked up by depth for whatever. You see how incredibly fickle and also the same time when it comes to many communities, many that were below the poverty line. Heather was a very deliberate and unfair measures and mechanisms, they came in when he into policing frankly is very unfair for the officers who were forced to control these areas. So you absolutely see how thin that line really is. And i know that one of the things. And i have to credit william now. But the fact that i had a great role model. One of the greatest gift that god gave me was the fact that he gave me my mother. I will always be grateful for that. Also family members and mentors, coaches that sort of thing. I know there is also one thing that served as an initial prerequisite. Luck should not have to be a prerequisite prerequisite in order to be society. I think one of the things that really fuels so much of how i think about both my relationships with wes moore but also about the work that have been asked to do and will continue to do in this climate, is illuminating but as a prerequisite for eliminating it. In order for people to make it. In our own larger conversation that we have all had in order for us to do just that. So i absolutely cannot only imagine it but i think i spend more time thinking about had it not been for a series of decisions. Some of which wes moore had nothing to do with. I dont think it is fair that he should not be right here next to be contributing. But that is the dynamic. That is the challenge i think that we have to deal with. Peter why did you move back to baltimore. Wes moore for a few reasons. African back from afghanistan, i had a chance to work in washington. And i worked at the white house fellow which is a yearlong nonpolitical and nonpartisan scholarship. It was an amazing experience. I was working in finance their. I was doing well and had gotten promoted a couple of times. It is really funny real role in the world of finance. In the way my mind works. His quantitative and qualitative mind. Numbers come better to me than words. But i also know something was really missing. I knew i wanted to spend my time being able to really focus on the things that made my heart beat a little bit faster. And that was not finance. It it wasnt banking. And so i remember actually going and having a conversation with mild boss. Hes still here. Mentally, i think i want to be something different. They said just understand this is not reagan hopped out and hopped back in. This treadmill kind of keeps moving. I told him i thought about it and i got it. I still thought it was the right thing to do. Easily get it. And ready. Salicylate then decided the part of the journey was moving back home rated i love baltimore. I think it is an amazing place. Filled with amazing people. It is quirky and complicated. But its also place where this story is very much being which white male still pretty this is the city these to be a city of close to a million people. He was no city of less than 600,000. With the exception of cleveland and detroit, baltimore has lost more citizens than any other major American City over this two decade long. And its a city that is the home of marshall. In a babe ruth. Also the home of my life. And some of the most discriminatory policies, housing transportation, that this country has ever instituted honest populations and particularly the black publishing. While at the same time, we were celebrating the rebirth of the Baltimore Orioles and the run that they were helping. At the same time they were trying to bring the title back home. Around the same time that we also had and learned about the names of Anthony Anderson and chris brown and tyrone west. Eventually freddie great. So it is a city that is still very much healing from its past. Its a city that is still very much trying to search and determine its own future. Its a place where i think people from baltimore take it very seriously. An integral product in baltimore. No med alert they happen to be now. The fact that im still very much living down here and i love it here. But i know people have baltimore in the roots who no longer live here. But i also know it is a place where our story is being written. As we speak. And the chance to actually be one of the 600,000 authors of a pretty Great American story is exciting to me. And so when i thought about the place really for me embodied community. For me embodied ownership. For me than it became a pretty easy decision. Their family will go back to baltimore. Peter where were you living on saturday april 12th, 2050. Wes moore living in baltimore. At the time. Peter what happened that day. Wes moore that was the day that freddie gray made contact with police. And i say that because that was his crime he made eye contact. And then he ran. Its important for people to understand that i say that because that is not a crime everywhere. Is a crime distinctly late labeled in high crime areas. Where if you make eye contact with police run, it will cause trouble. The need to be chased and arrested. Devin done in another neighborhood, other been done in a neighborhood that was only a mile and a half to 2 miles away where he was prayed he couldve done the exact same thing any wouldve been fine but he did it. He did it in baltimore. So when he made eye contact, to the place, he ran he was eventually essentially arrested. In an hour after he was arrested, he was in tacoma. The refund limited to the er, he had three broken vertebrae. In a crushed lantern next crush was fox. And he never pleaded nothing. He never recovered from his injuries. He died a week later. There is trying to survive but eventually was unable to. So that was the day that the world, eventually baltimore and then eventually the world. That was the day that the world would first learn of the name freddie gray. Peter and from your book, five days a reckoning of American City right there were reasons his death was different. And so quickly turn into a galvanizing moment instead of passing in silence like with others. Portions of freddie race final moments ricotta camera. Capturing video of police encounters, common place now. Freddies dru death coincided wh the emergence of smart smart phones and social media as tools. It. Wes moore is one of these things where i think what i thought about what was the think it even made us know who he was or what his name was. Think about it where in the two years before him there wasnt just freddie, there was chris brown and tyrone west. Similar situations. We had an equal description of force and blackman made contact with police and loses his life. And say why did freddie gray figure this thing a new type of way. Two things. I think we can not underestimate because one it was caught on camera. Unlike those of the other ones that i had made named where the idea of your word versus mine. Critically when your word is someone who cannot speak for themselves anymore becomes much more complicated when theres video footage. Against much more complicated when were watching it live. And someone is capturing it what actually happened. The second piece that i think makes freddie gray story different. The context and when it happened in the fact that there was this group called black lives matter. They were able to respond. Able to move. Say you watch this dynamic where this organization was founded by three black women. In response to what happened to trave on martin. In this idea thing and saying that we have to be able to remind this country is not about black lives matter anymore. But asking this country to remember the into matter cannot take our lives. You now saw this thing that went from a to now becoming something that was becoming a Global Movement that can move and immobilize quickly in different areas. So it was not just about how are we positioning these things but when these things happen and having the individuals families to having to fend to themselves but how can we put a real level of tension and focus when these things continue to happen in our communities. So for freddie gray it was the fact that we now had camera footage of him and his last moments. Then of him, being dragged. Literally because he couldnt help it, is being dragged into the back of the van. We also had this movement called black lives matter that would then focus on making sure that we dont just know the names. We dont just understand the names michael brown. And walter scott and shawn bill and more. And freddie gray. Though we dont just know their names that we demand justice for the factly have to chancellor names. So think those are the big things we saw. In the differences there were able to say and with freddie gray and his situation that we did not see with some of the others. Peter freddie gray and so many boys like him grew up in an area that permeates everything. Poverty that raise the probability that freddie would be exactly where he was on apri. And then again on april 27th, 2015. In fact the odds started me stacked against ready generations before he was born. Wes moore is one of these things where when i hear people make arguments about freddie or freddie was this or that worried very was a thug who Police Officers same. Who have elected officials. Is the one of the most heartbreaking things about it, it is their job to actually protect him. People sometimes coming up to remind them that freddie was your constituent to. But its also important for people to understand the freddie grafreddiegray consciousness des life. Because often times part of the conversation that took place was very much about what happened to him how did he die. And those are all really important conversations all things that we have to be able to contend with and understand what happened to him on the day that he died what lenny to him being, for entire week. Its also important to understand tragedy of his life and how existence in his first 25 years. Because this was a young man was born underweight, premature, and addicted to heroin. His mother who battled addiction for mustard much of her life, never made it to high school, she could not read nor write. It would him and his twin sister unlinking in way to the hospital, you move into a Housing Project over was baltimore. This Housing Project on cary street, that along with 480 of homes were actually cited in civil lawsuit to us tonight because there was led inside of the homes there were in. We know that it is a toxin. The cdc indicates that if a percent six microsoft lead, that person will have cognizant damage for the remainder of the lives. And freddie gray had 36. So this is young man was born premature, underweight, addicted to heroin, and had lead poisoning. By that time in his life, these two years old. Freddifreddie gray never had a. We never give him a chance. So when you look at the fact that when he was in the tenth grade and is almost 19 years old. When you look at the fact that he had been in special education his entire academic prayer, because of the lead poisoning and we are asking his teachers and incredibly unfair tech to be able to make up for things and frankly, his neurological system, pendant thing to do with it. But the fact that we continue to do that in every single interaction with the various systems and freddies life with her it was his, displacing but also educational systems and Health Systems in all of this. Everything a time that the systems touch him, it wasnt just that they could not help them. Within in many ways, they were each doing their own individual ways, immeasurable damage to him. And that is the thing that i think that we as a Larger Society and frame. Have to also really contend with. Is that hard truth in every system that touches life. It was the fact that pretty good died hundred times before he made eye contact with the place today. And it was fact arguably, peaceful week freddies life was the week he was in a coma. Because the least that week, he was surrounded by doctors and nurses. At least that week a month he was surrounded by lawyers and activists. At least that week, there was a city in his name. Lisa we, there was a city of cared the pulitzer died. Name one week in the 25 years prior that was the case. And so we have to be able to seek and demand justice. And its not just a justice of what happened to him that day but it is a justice and that cannot be excluded either but it is a justice that is really, and environmental and education and health justice. In all of the others, the frankly completely deluded freddie for his entire life. Peter this year for more callers. Wes moore is our guest Brady Nichols going in from fort lauderdale. Guest thank you very much for taking my call. I want to say, mr. Moore im very impressed with your articulation in the waste be afraid morning calling about his i was born in 1970 into a black middleclass in southern new jersey. Black middleclass family. Getting a good education was something really paramount in our family. We were very lucky, my sister and i to be able to get a free echo school which i a huge difference in our lives. And we were exposed to classical literature and art and theater, jazz. Even science programs on tv that my dad made us watch. So my question to you is, what can be done to put experiences, such as like when i can into the lives of poor black kids in poor neighborhoods. Maybe scholarships or wanting to be have these programs brought into the schools. Peter people think you. Wes moore thank you for the question. I love the frame of your question because what you asking really is how we make education really allencompassing experience for our students. That is not just about the reading and writing and arithmetic. Not just about but how do we make it a truly holistic experience that promotes this idea of Lifelong Learning from is this idea of exploration the makes life interesting. So i love the frame that you are approaching. I also know that this right now and what we are seeing, generally kind of benefit both, also post covid19 where we have watch these educational divides absolutely explode. If you think about the things that we spent a lot of time on and focus on, focuses on things like candy make sure that kids are cared for. Theyre coming in knowing the letters and numbers in the things that are going to help them be able to go on a proper pathway. You in elementary, prek a converter to choose. What would be more helpful. At the kids ready to go there and separated so it separates kids pretty we also know things like passion. Its a very big deal for our students. Because of their not in the classroom, they cant work. The third thing we do is the Summer Learning loss spread what happens in the summer months. We know that it got to exist between june and september. Many students were not able to have those mechanisms bring summer which can keep them current. What happens when a situation now we have students who have not been a classroom. We consider the fact that a court of the kids have not even logged in consistently during this time. So this actually gives us a really important opportunity to rethink education in a different kind of way. Of thinking it is absolutely critical we still do not have students that do not have tablets or mechanisms to do all of the proper things during a virtual learning. Consistent wifi in highspeed internet thats going to help them stay above, keep them aboveboard. That we are now at we are not adopting curriculum a newly creative ways in order to support her students. And so i feel like your question is a powerful one. Because it does actually force people to think through how can we use this moment so that all the things you got, all the things i got when i had teachers i had an instructor who actually took me and help me understand how the Constitutional Congress worked would take me to a play to explain that to me or would trump really try to understand the things that made life so interesting and guide. How could he make that a part of our core focus for all of her students . And particularly at a time when Everything Else in the educational framework is being upended. That becomes our bigger mission. But something has to done for going to address this. Wes moore, nicoles question maybe start thinking about the difference between how she discussed her parents and their activism in her education, and freddie graze model. I think we have to understand youre absolutely right. There are several in a crucial role and their charge educational aspirations. I am not at all its not all lost on me the fact that my mother was a very active parent in terms of what her kids were learning. I know my grandmother was a schoolteacher. She was a very active participant. She was very clear student should and should not be gettin getting. Where their parents not necessarily how their parents have approached it . That we cannot punish them for that. That we then have to think about systems and how to make up of structures even if that is not something that child is getting innately, it is still something that child is getting structurally. Because 20 think about parenting, often times there can be the blame game that takes place with parents. It like it is the parents fault. Ive been working with students and families now for decades. And heres the thing i can tell you with a real deal of certainty. The vast majority of parents is not that they dont care. Its for a lot of parents that either dont know, or for a lot of parents its really hard because its really complicated and challenging when you are trying to work three different jobs that are taking up 14 hours of your day. Still living below the poverty line because none of those jobs pay enough to get above the poverty line. Youre going to need help, youre going to need support the same kind of support my family got my mother got her first job with the gave her benefits when i was ten years old . Shut one job that didnt give her multiple hours until i was 14. And when they gave her enough hours until his 14. The same time she was now only taking care of us but she was living with her and trent my grandparents and taking care of them. But i also know my grandparents gave them a tremendous amount of support. She always credits them and says if it wasnt for them i dont know what i would have done raising my three kids so its not that parents dont care, is for many parents they dont know, or for many parents they just dont have the resources. And so with that, how we make sure what nicole got got. Henry make sure what i got. How do we institutionalize it so its not just the your mom or grandparent its not the greats of their situation that allows you to have a pathway. But the fact that you are a member in the valued member of our society. Therefore our society shouldnt be thinking about how to create the infrastructures in place that are just giving kids a chance. Theyre creating i will not meet each other. Because we dont have that now. We still have a framework thats too heavily based on luck. And having that infrastructure or support that frankly, i know i did not ask for but is blessed to receive thats overthinking this moment on how we should reshape or rethink all of this. The tickets on the phone lines use of a question or a comment, we will scroll through our social media sites including our text number. Lynnwood and windsor veal maryland, good afternoon you are on with author westmore. Caller good morning. Perhaps the last chapter, sedlak hasnt come into everything pretty high eliminate luck from the world, luck from humans. Bill clinton was lucky, ross perot ran luck comes into everything. When he says conditions, i believe you two 100 . But, you seem to be going i must have a Perfect World to have the option of doing the right thing. Is a little far out. Wrongly say the police had to be right with the powerful cause. They did not there is no crime by him or anybody else. They were doing that sweet thing thats what they were doing. He was going, forget about a social problems, all the problems he had, if he radioed because he had a hot date, they had no right to arrest him. One of thing about luck, bad luck. There was out here a good citizen called police. He sees the young black man hes holding what appears to be an ak47. The clerk is not there. There are no people around there anywhere. He tells the police that looks like we have a mad gunman, actually hes random raid to shoot people he brings it over and check it out. They come to the store played the clerk who is back there getting the receipt is there, they come in, they pulled the guns and the judgment, the young black kid things obviously these white cops think im stealing this gun. He goes for his wallet. ~ drop his gun and he goes for his wallet and hes going to show them i have the receipts i got the credit card. Sue and hate we need to bring this to a conclusion. Caller okay they shoot him. It was a bb facsimile of an ak47. That is a tragedy. But that was bad luck. Cops did nothing wrong. Sue and head lynnwood could you very briefly give us your give us a quick schedule and quick glance your life story . Caller was born in north carolina. Sort of rough down there. I graduated high school. I was in the military during vietnam, is a veteran but during vietnam. I went to morgans states. I there after, after social services went to University Mobile law school. I get in to law school, pass the bar, as with the public defender more engine Defenders Office of baltimore for approximately ten years. I would back to the office of public defender of Oklahoma City until 2011. When i retired. Host okay will have to leave it there thank you for that information. Guest is great in first my wife is a fellow. [inaudible] and about the work he did opd. Some of the work i did even prior to or doing now was actually launched initially in word students take a new direction working with juveniles and juvenile centers. With the office of public defenders was a huge part of that. And you bring up an important point about the conditions have to be perfect. For people to be able to make it through. And the obvious answer is no. But. The thing we also know as a conditions also cannot be stacked against you either. Where if you look at the statistics and the dynamics that exist right now, we always talk about how a College Degree is really the target. Thats the thing we want all of our students to be able to accomplish. But the college increases lifetime learning by nearly 1 million. Research also shows black College Graduates making less than White High School dropouts. If you take a look at this idea theyd take a look at not just new york for example. There two times likely to have hardships and 39 versus 19 . That 70 of lowwage workers are called on the front lines during covid19 are people of color. The point that i make but i to also push on is only her tongue by deacons and conditions that are changing for people. We also cannot underestimate the role that grace plays in those conditions. In the fact that if we do have a framework if everyone is willing to work hard and do their task, then they should have the opportunity to succeed all that is right and all that is true. But the reality is we are still making the curve, making that curve for many people and almost intentionally so. Intentionally so. Making unnecessarily high. Just as the week, you, i should be battling against. It is this idea i dont think people need to be perfect, but needs to be fair. And right now it is not fair. Stewart brand, Montgomery Alabama please go ahead with your question or comment. Caller thank you for taking my call. Host primary with this . Brian please go ahead. Caller okay. Im enjoying the conversation. I wanted to make a comment about the context. Are we looking at context for instance about freddie gray. We demonstrated black lives matter when you do that. When you demonstrate that black lives matter. So how can we actually do better for the society complex for everyone. So that is related to the societal concept is that correc correct . See when mr. Moore . Guest great question burden honestly echoes back in some ways to nicoles question earlier about how do we add context. I think one of the things we have to do to add context is we as a Large Society have a very difficult time dishing engine issue with the truth. And i think because people cite races on the trickiest issues in our society, i disagree. Its not one of the trickiest issues it is the trickiest parade is the trickiest when he think about the history of this country. The fact this reality was founded on the racial hierarchy of the fact that this country did have and was founded on stolen land and stolen labor. The fact that we have had a history of systemic challenges that again did not end with the end of slavery but immediately went to jim crow, mass incarceration, all of these things have provided a context that we have to be able to understand but when the founding documents were first put together and as beautiful as they were and they were they did not include everybody. And there had to be a collective Movement Towards this idea that doctor king talks about the bending of the moral arc bends toward justice. There also has to be an understanding of a couple different things. One, how and who was responsible for so much that this country built. Also the idea with the moral bending towards justice. Doesnt bend automatically bends because their people pulling towards justice. People of all types in this countrys history. In simple we are trying but things like context, that means how do we address things like. [inaudible] within our society. Going back to the old point about education burden we talk about the history of things in the history of the country is important that contacts move into our curriculum. Its important people understand were the most important things that happened to me was i began to appreciate. I began to appreciate the history of this country and the richness of this country. I began to understand how good you fight for this country . Have you put your life on the line for this country. How did you serve one of the most elite in the country and i would say do it again if i had the opportunity to. I would do it because i know i love this country. But loving this country does not mean lying about it. Loving this country is doing able to understand what does make it so powerful in the first place. And name such as baldwin and hughes, m parks, and carmichael, and name such as robeson. These are nays that are just as important as the framework and the build of our nations history. And any other nays. Its important to not just africanamerican children understand that, but its important that all children understand that. In all children understand the many that have toiled to make this country better at every single turn. When we had a chance to make a decision that we move toward that in a very deliberate fashion because there are people who look like every single shades are able to make progress, my community, my ancestors should not be minimized or eliminated in that conversation. The other thing i know is we talk about context and its an informed question about context, it also means understanding the history that the only time weve had major movements that have lasting Sustainable Impact is when it was not just the impact of the community that was fighting for justice. Whether time at civil rights movement, the Antiapartheid Movement, part of the reason the Antiapartheid Movement was it wasnt just black lives matters were standing up and saying this is unjust. And there is no way we can allow a system like this to exist. Part of the reason we had Marriage Equality is because it didnt have to just be our old dbt q why friends who were demanding more from and chanting that love is love. Part of the reason we are able to see movement now and im convinced well see movement now as we can add context or humanity. And context is simply about the fact that what we are seeing right now, sometimes is not as simple understand the full extradition of our history. The full history of why we are in the place we are in. Understand the fact the reason we have this market level of poverty that we see was not in unintentional acts. And when say people in poverty should just work harder or poverty is a choice, my answer to them is this. Poverty is a choice. But its not a choice of the people who are impacted by poverty. Its not just a choice of the people are feeling the weights of the poverty. They wait and gently dont wake up thing i love being in poverty. Its a choice of our society its a choice of how much pain or willing to endure. So your question is really a good one in terms of context matters. When we are creating policy. Context matters but we deciding what justice means and what context looks like. Context matters if were going to truly honor and try to protect about not just the intent of this countrys option options, but the words they put down. The words that they put down. The words as they stood by. And that it would take pulling on this moral justice in order to make those things actually feel real. So nancy is in los angeles. Caller good morning can you hear me . Re thank you. Hi mr. Moore thank you so much for all that you are doing. You as well. My parents are folks who march with Martin Luther king for it i was so fortunate i grew up in corpus christi, texas progress so fortunate to have been raised in an environment or my siblings and i were required to take action if we sought injustice. I look back at that and i seek gosh, not everybody was raising that kind of environment. I am so thankful thats how it was for me. I have been an activist my whole life. I have a goal to help enlighten my friends with others who have progressed with this as well. And want to know what white people can do. People who know that racism is out of control. That change absolutely must occur. I feel there was before may 25 and after may 25 and george floyd was killed. And pederasty what april a day in april 2015 meant to you. And i didnt know because i still havent gotten over choice vendor markson. I did not even know about tulsa in 19201 until there was a miniseries that came out earlier this year. That wasnt taught in school i dont know if it was in any history books. What i had done this weekend earlier, yesterday was i just made something going to send an email on this a class divided, jane elliott the blueeyed brown eyed experiment . So absolutely. So i thought that would be a start theres a documentary called the untold story, think its by keith boucher. I dont know if you know of that. Stu and nancy what your point with that . Caller what . Host what your point with bringing those up . Caller what i want to know is what other documentaries. I feel that education is number one for folks to have contacts like you have said. And i just saw a documentary i am not your negro word James Baldwin said nothing can change until it is faced. I jotted that down what he had said. What could they watch, what could they read, what could they do too have contacts and be educated and then take action. With its volunteering, giving money coming becoming more politically active what could they do . Stay with nancy thank you very much lets hear from author wes moore. Guest then said at such a beautiful question. And thank you for your vulnerability in your leadershi leadership. Because i give the terminus amount of credit also to your family because the fact that you were raised with having social justice, you were raised right. Note youre talking about this challenge of racism, right, only think about whats happening right now. In 202011 to genuine crises read on our doorstep. The first one is an introduction of a virus with Catastrophic Health with the impact in our society. The other was a reminder in different communities. But the reality is, even though those are different types of crises, the exact same truth is that in dealing with cover 19 is not about the discovery of a vaccine, and doing with inequitable policing and the elimination of chokehold. Cover 19 did not just expose or exasperate the fact that will impacted everyone is not impacted everyone. And Police Reform is necessary in all communities. But what we saw with george floyd, as you predicted heartbreakingly mentioned we saw someone who was handcuffed. Face down on the ground and taking his final breaths because a grown man had a knee into his neck. And so what we saw what we are seeing with the protests that are taking place around the country, this is not just simply about policing reform. It is about racism and it is about systemic racism. And your point about racism is exactly right. I think often times people think racism is an act. That racism is if a person says xor person goes to a klan rally that person is racist. I get it. Thats not just an act. It is a system. Its a system that finds its way and moves like water through all of our systems and changes their shape and changes their focus and their core. Part of the thing i love that youre talking about, its both about how we are dealing with education, how are we making sure we are reading classics by here i stand by fire next time. We are able to add a level of exposure to these dynamics that take place. But then also it cannot simply be about how or going to penetrate individuals, but how are we doing it with a focus on being able to deal with systems. Understanding this interplay between Racial Injustice and economic injustice. Understanding the fact this does not have to be an binary conversation this person gains it means this person must leave nor does it help any of us by not talking about it. I think about this issue of race because it is such a tricky thing, that sometimes people will say i rather just not talk about it. Or i dont want to say said that might be deemed as incorrect. Therefore next thing you know im getting memes or whatever the case might be. I am pretty certain that in our time here i have probably said quite a few things that have offended quite a few people. I know im not one to stop talking. Because i know that becomes a problem we just Start Talking about it with like we could move without being able to do this nancy brought an important word in your question it that is tru true. Ive done it away to know we cannot move on to a better place if were not willing to stare at some of the deepest wounds our society has faced. Countries like south africa, rwanda, northern ireland, and chile. In columbia, and canada twice. Countries that have gone through truth and reconciliation processes where they have been able to say we have to be able to examine the things that continue to show themselves in our society we dress it once and for all. The reality is the president of the United States is acted National Guard in our country 12 times in the nations history. Ten of them had to do with race. Only twice has the president activated the National Guard that did not have to do with race. Almost the wooden that took place after the postal workers strike in new york. The other was the looting that took place in st. Croix after a hurricane. The fact that you had other countries have been able to explore some other deepest and say the only way we can move forwards with a measure of truth is something i believe is crucial that this country also goes through. This country goes to our own process when a federal, local, a state and Institution Level two know our history. Then be able to think about how do we move forward with an understanding of what our history actually is. Host Paul Robinson with his book here i stand for it every time an author is on indepth we ask him or her their Favorite Book and what they are reading. Here i stand as one of wes moores fabric term Favorite Book so is fab five and is currently reading dog flowers and by danielle. [inaudible] bird which is about what mr. Moore . Guest its actually a power sortie thing about an immigration story think about in context of what it means to define ourselves as americans in this moment. What it means to define ourselves as a member of the human race the depth of what that means. One of the reasons i love that story. I can type to some of the other things that the other books i mentioned before. Because i am a datadriven person, i really liked analysis and statistics. I also know, when is getting ready to write the other wes moore wanted to turn it more into the ten step guide for parents in the ten step guide for guardians. This was before. I asked him what he thought and he said to me, listen, im going to be honest with you. That sounds interesting at all, but no one wants to read a parenting book by a 30yearold with no children. [laughter] thats actually really good point. And he said make sure you cope stories. Because sometimes statistics can add context. The stories promote action. What is it exactly or trying to do with your work . And for me the honest answer is both. Its both to provide context. But its also to promote action. Thats one of the reasons i write all those books and why i think there is a beautiful and masterful job of being able to read context into it. But knowing if you can make a person intimately connected with the person youre reading about, you then are going to have something to fight for because im also a deep believer that when you know what you are fighting for im particularly who you are fighting for you never stop fighting. Thats what all those books are doing. Specht and wes moores second book, searching for a life that matters. Here it is a question i wonder if mr. Moore and code to know each other, grew up near inch other or talk about everything that the baltimore and Structural Racism . Civic for those who do not know he is a another one is very proud father still very, very active guy in baltimore he still person who i know and i admire deeply we have and we had a chance to speak a lot about this city. A lot about where the city is about where the cities going. A lot about why the city is the way it is. Known for all of his remarkable books. He is i think tony moore was saying before that he is basically our version of James Baldwin which i dont think you can give a higher complement to read the brilliance of James Baldwin you see it all over. But if you read a beautiful struggle of book about his upbringing growing up in baltimore, thats another one i will recommend people to check out to understand baltimore, understand complication free but understand why people are so very proud and thankful that continues to drive me and drive so many others. Its really still firmly very much committed to the city. Much firmly committed to the state and the way in. She knows can and should be better. Civic he mentioned tom hasses father, hes a publisher in baltimore and in fact if you go to booktv. Org, go to our Video Library we took a tour of his publishing plants. We talked to him about some of the books that he publishes very good booktv. Org type in paul coates and you can watch that story. The next call for westmore comes or marjorie in florida. Go ahead marjorie you are on book tv. Thank you so much. Mr. West, you are an answer to a prayer. I am telling you, you got it down pat. And i want to thank you so much for having the nerve and tenacity to say the things you say that nobody turn you around. Its all about the community and not understanding where we come from, how we got here and how we get out of here. Black lives matter, john lewis , martin, you are all the answer to the movement. I want to know do you travel . Because right now im working with the superintendent of schools in the county and im going to tell him tomorrow he needs to bring you here to talk for a couple of days. Because that is what we are working on. Pursuant marjorie before we get an answer from mr. Moore tell us about yourself. Caller what we need to know, the truth. Youve got to know the truth so just tell me i know you will be to answer your question heres my question do you travel, do travel know . You dont have to be with a group of people when you get here. I just need you to get here. Sue and okay will get an answer to that in just two seconds tell us a little bit about yourself a little bit. I didnt hear word you said because i was talking i am so tired. We went okay we will get an answer from westmore. Mr. Moore, what is your answer . Guest you dont know how much you fill me up. You have filled me up more than you know. I hear it in your voice, hear it in your passion. Im thankful for the work youre doing for our students of our community but you have no idea how much you fill me up this morning. So to answer your question i do and i would love to. Say one of the joys that i have had with the experience of spending time with her students and our teachers and our leaders and our people who are the ones who are shaping our society praise of the answer is yes, i would love to come spend time with you. Your comment to me is not just incredibly humbling, i think one of the most important things that happened to me was at once i got a chance to know my truths and my history, i know that people, there is everywhere i am, i am there because it was written. That i knew there were people who were willing to fight for me and advocate for me. And i include my mother and my grandparents. But it also another people who woke up every morning who never even knew who i was parading i would never know their name and name might not even know mine. But they woke up every morning with the hope of me. And that drives me. It dries me for the fact that i can and i should be proud of my history. In the fact that sometimes i will tell people when they say things like i dont see color. And i tell people, i said not only do i not believe thats true, i believe thats also not a good role. People say to me listen i dont see color, what i am hearing is i dont see your blackness. And that is something i should be ashamed of. I am not. I believed and im so thankful for the people who looked just like me who fought for the hope of me. And so i stand here knowing that every room i am in, i am there because i belong there. I am not in any room because of a social experiment. I am not in any room because of someones benevolence. I am not in any room because of someones kindness. Im not in anyones room because someone was to prove a point. I am there because i belong there. And i am there because their worlds would be incomplete if i wasnt there. On so that is what i want all of our children to understand that they are walking in their beauty. As they are. They are walking in their greatness as they are. They are walking in their destiny as they are for their walking in a sense of hope that there are people and angels surrounding every single day might not even know their name. But they know their potential. And that is what we fight for. So ms. Marjorie you fill me up this morning. Thank you. Host tony is in the bronx. Hi tony. Caller thank you very much i respect you very much mr. Moore you are a very, very educated young man. I wanted to say this also. He mentioned about your mother but you thought your father also. Thats very important. I have been three times and relationships that i dont have any children i do not have any wife. I have friends. I have been in relationships that i tried to explain to the woman you truly do need a father in their lives. Just not the mother. That hurts the children also and they dont have a father who guides them like a mother. But i learned 50 years ago, 58 years ago that it is a breakdown in the family. That is very sad. You have a lot of men out here, live in new york all my life you have a lot of young men out here whos trying to do the right thing. Sometimes they dont have the guidance of a black man. Alright so ive been in relationships where the woman. I have two sisters and a mother, god bless her, but the thing in my experience in my life is that when you have the woman in all respect i love black women. But when you have a black woman who breaks down the black man, theyd dont want the black meant to be the black man in the family. Sue had to think of got a lot on the table there lets hear from westmore. Guest thank you. Its always good to talk to somebody its great to hear your voice. You know it is interesting, i think about this in context of and sometimes people say is there anything from the other west jet westmore that wouldve made in the book that you wish it would have. The only answer i can think of is one thing. That is when wes when i transitioned from just knowing him to writing about it when the first things i asked wes i said you write some things your father want to try to find her father. Wes only has when i say only i have two memories of my father and the second mom was watching my father died in front of me. Wes only has three memories of his father. The last one he was about 13 old he saw his father laying on the couch in his father asked him who he was. Because his father lived around the corner from him and had no relationship with him. I asked wes can you write a bother at want to try to find him. When i find ml want to give him this. When wes hesitated, hesitated and finally said he go it was about five pages long. It was the most fascinating mix of love and support and empathy and apathy and hatred that youd ever read in one letter. It was fascinating to me because i thought about it where, next to showed it to my publisher he said to me did you do . I said did i do what . And he said have you wrote a letter to your father . And i told him no. And he said you should not wes to ask something you are not willing to do yourself. So i went down i sat there with the pad and pen and started writing. Not editing not wearing about anything just what was on my mind. I ended up showing my publisher that. And he said to me im going to be honest with you. And the point he was making the point i took from it is in many ways we both still wrestle with something very, very complicated. We both russell with this whole, this void. My father was a special man everything, from every story ive heard. From the time his friends that he was a good friend, he was a good husband. He was a good man. And i think about that in context of wes when he says listen, our fathers could not be there for Different Reasons. And therefore we mourn their absence in different ways. And he is absolutely right. The reality is is your point, tony, is the right one. Regardless of why the void is there, the void is real. And we have to be able to lift up and celebrate. Not just how powerful but also , we have to stop doing damage and continue to put out a lot of false narratives as well. But things are seeing amongst black men and women when theyre engaged. The reality is we still very much apologize and place that are keeping people from being engaged with her family members. These are things we talked about with the mass incarceration we still have allows on the books and that is just one element. We still have laws on books that are telling people that you can be with your family but remember there in Public Housing you cant join them. Or else they will asked to believe Public Housing. The fact that we have so many restrictions what comes to everything from pell grants and qualify commented Child Support payments and disincentives placed out when you think about what it is we want from our society. I think the honest answer is we want engagement. We want unified families. Housing to stop making it so difficult we have to think about it from a truly holistic process where we are able to bring perspectives into the conversation but the way things are standing right now this is not useful or helpful for anybody. Thinking in the context of my children who i adore. And the fact that they have a wonderful mother. I could think about how challenging it would be even if we do have is very unified front. But also, how difficult it was for my mom. How difficult it mustve been for so many other moms or single dads out there who have to do it on their own, creating those levels of support are important. Creating those structures to make those things real is also tantamount. Don has mentioned often in your books we taped an interview with you earlier about your most recent book, five days, one of your sons got into the picture but unfortunately we cut that out and i wish we had left that in get to the office to come visit you. He does too. Honestly one thing i will always say in this moment of social distancing. I guess many ways it goes back to ms. Marjories point. My kids are allowed everywhere. Ill have meetings with a babe. I dont normally son or my daughter enters into the frame but i always let them know you are always welcome if you havent a pop and before this interview and just know that i am okay with it. We love to see you then. Strict steve and marilyn go ahead steve. Yes good afternoon. Wes i am just wondering here. You caved in pretty good context about freddie gray and his background there that probably most people would not have. Im interested in knowing if you would comment on black lives matter being a march organization that you want to destroy the society, families especially. And also that the police when they case were acquitted. Some are interested in commenting on governor hogans book about his dealing with the riots. So i will tell you on black lives matter were pulled together especially having known the three women who started the organization, who started again not just an acknowledgment but a real fear of what we were seeing about the treatment and the lack of accountability. You bring up a very important point where even if you think about the two years prior to freddie gray what is happened to push past before that. There were other nays. Those are involved in these types of misconduct. Often times a people saw something would happen, pay a foot happen, and then go away. Its actually a misconception that people had about what happened in baltimore that combed everything down. This i guess goes back to your question about governor hogan. Where people think the thing that combed everything down was when larry hogan called in the National Guard. And that is what brought the temperature down. That is not true. The thing actually brought everything down in baltimore the time, was not that the National Guard got brought in. And ill say that from someone who is worthy uniform. Sometimes when you dress for conflicts, conflict actually happens. Heres a thing i do know. The thing that actually did bring the temperature down is when the states attorney when she pressed charges against the six officers. Because of baltimore was shocked. It was the first item baltimore history that have been done. That when these cases happened but that you had charges being filed our member being in baltimore charges were fired into baltimore these people were shot their charges being brought. But to the point that two offices are found not guilty, for officers the charges were dropped. But i think that is an important thing to note. That was actually what change the temperature was when those people thought of the moment that there might be accountability for what they were seeing and what the d. O. J. , the department of justice actually showed was a pattern and practice towards discriminatory behavior that is taking place. I do also think thats one of the things we are seeing with george floyd now where the bar before it was his idea of indictment. Now the bar has risen so even as you see these officers with george floyd the indictment happen because this is about much more than just an indictment. This is really about a conviction. When he sings its really incredibly disheartening and important as in the governors book when he did describe freddie as a crip gang connected street drug dealer with a long criminal rap sheet, the reality is i studied this. And dug deeply into this along with a journalist reporter and not just a good friend but a great reporter erika greene who collaborate on this book. First of all there is no evidence of the gang connection. Second of all, the thing is for the governor to be able to make an insinuation like that inside of book, freddie is gone. And he cannot defend his own character. I seem to have forgotten especially understand the context of freddie gray. The governor seems to either have forgotten our does not recognize the fact that freddie was his constituent two. And so freddies death was almost inevitable result of the accumulation of societal failures. Of policy failures, of leadership failures. The governor says in this book they should not confuse free to groove the singer in a church choir, i dont. I also know freddie gray never had a shot. That is the distinction is important to draw and the pushback thats important to be able to draw about what exactly is the take away from those moments . And what exactly should we as a society encases you and i see as marylanders to be able to rethink that . To make sure these things dont have to keep happening. They dont had to continue adding nays adding disillusionment to an arctic complicate situations. They put out a report that 22 trillion has been spent on the war on poverty poverty rate is about the same as it was in 1967. And i want you to respond to this text that we received. Help government welfare enslaves people and leads to perverse incentives and life decisions and dependence on the government instead of selfreliant. Speech at your absolute right we have had this war on poverty. That is gone on since the time of lbj. Or it means you are willing to dispose every single tool and asset to your ability to win. We have not done that with poverty prayed the reality is thats not something thats not an indictment on the political party. Its not an indictment on administration for it i can look over the span of decades and show inconsistent policies that we have had them cut people in poverty. The reality is we do have policies that we can and should be rethinking would you have policies that we should be re crafting. Because policy one challenge i would make is in the comments about we talk about with welfare systems and disincentive eyes and. We have watched over the past 11 weeks we saw 11 years of jobs gone. The reality is that 23 of people have lost their jobs due to covid19 are people who were living in poverty before covid19. This is the working poor. His are people who are working jobs in many cases multiple jobs. And still were not living above the poverty line. The reality is you just take it new york city alone half of the new yorkers have lived in poverty for at least a year over the past four years. Precovid19, half of the city, not half of the borough, half of the demographic half of the city was living in poverty for at least a year over the past four years but that is research that robin hood, an organization i run on columbia university. So when you are talking but these kind of dynamics, and you have a situation or half the poverty half has been living in poverty for the last year of the past four years but unemployment stayed around 4 . There is a massive disconnect here. Talk about harris and policy recommendations we could do to address some of the things you are speaking about. And at the same time knowing we are going to benefit. Our population is particular the most vulnerable. Which im up to how do you continue spending on Employment Benefits but because is necessary now as it has ever been before. How do we make permanent the expansion to include childless adults. How do we make basic adjustments to make it fully refundable increase children and family through economic downturn. Almost half homework reading supports for people that it is somehow being seen as handouts. As we are creating supports especially for our most vulnerable to give them a pathway to longterm success. To give them an ability to help economic downturn that frankly they had nothing to do with. That that really becomes not just a obligation but it becomes the most effective thing and effective way that we can think about our resources and particularly our resources when it comes to how we are going to come out and recover from this issue, from the issue going forward. Look at unemployment we get about a dollar 80 back into the economy. There are ways to leverage this. But we have to be incredibly thoughtful and deliberate about that. Host destiny and wisconsin we have 30 seconds for you and a thirty second answer from westmore. Go ahead destiny. Caller hi thank you so much. Im certain believer in the economy boy makeable feel heard and we make them feel like they mattered, great things happen and we move to change. With elected officials breaking the law they are supposed to uphold for voter suppression, gerrymandering, all being real issues. My question to you mr. Moore, to what extent does power or the lack thereof affect everyday individuals . Select thank you maam. Only 30 seconds or big question there. Guest thats a big question in a brief question thank you for that question. It is everything prayed because even we are taught not policies were are putting in place. Return what what the role philanthropy does its not just about how we provide support, its about how we actually share power ensuring a tommy. That we are not here to save people. People dont need saving we need to focus on removing barriers thats making life so complicated for people. And so its a big question, but power, tonic, and freedom have got to be Guiding Principles in the way were thinking about our policies, philanthropy and work going forward. We appreciate your time, we appreciate all of your calls and texts. If you missed any of this program, it re airs right now. the fiery reckoning of an American City which looks back at baltimore during the riots following the death of freddie gray. F host and welcome to booktv and in depth. This is our Monthly Program with one author talking about his or her books, and were pleased this month to be joined by wes moore who is the author of three