Angela dale of davis, klein and so many others. We need bold radical ideas right now and it is critical we support independent publishers in bookstores you can do this in three ways. One, by buying books from haymarket. Two,. Joining haymarket book club. And three if you are in a position to make a donation, no matter how small the event will though be a cart on screen on how to do this and folks posting that information in the youtube chat as well. This video will be recorded in shade after words on the haymarket Youtube Channel like and share this video with as many people as possible and please consider following haymarket on their social media channel and signing up for the newsletter. Haymarket has more important lifestream events lined up we hope you can join us on may 19, abolished ice is not a slogan immigrant justice in the age of coronavirus with John Washington among other great events you can find these and other haymarket events at haymarket book Youtube Channel. A little bit more housekeeping request, with salmon people joining this call we may need your forbearance if we have any technical issues. If your stream gets choppy it might help to get reduce your image quality folks will give instruction in the chat. If the youtube feed is interrupted for any reason you may need to navigate back to the Youtube Haymarket book cajun hit resume in case of interruption. This video will be recorded and shared after words, we will have time for q a scoop is great on the q a and i will answer any questions you got as well. So please post your questions on the live video feed wherever you are watching it. Thats on the haymarket Youtuber Facebook just comment on the stream, on twitter post a reaction directly on the video, and hate weve got haymarket books with got up live right now on twitter, i am retreating it right now so people can jump on because i like that and now it is my pleasure to bring and, i call him the coal train of the sports page. Ive been calling him a coal train of the sports page for over ten years, i tried to make it catch on is a thing because when i used to read scoop on subway ready my slam magazine, ive called and the culturing of the sports page before i even knew that he was a flesh and blood person and not just a figure behind these terrific articles. He is a National Senior writer for espn, hes covered issues of race, culture and sports for various publications over 25 years former executive editor of slam magazine, former publisher of the agenda and author of this book, which i absolutely love it is called the game is not a game. The power for politics and American Sports i cant recommend it highly enough. His name is scoop jackson. Scoop perry doing sir . Guest i am good my man i appreciate this this is an honor if anybody knows how far we go back and how much love i think weve got for one another, we are our brothers from other mothers. This is big for me so i appreciate it. Thanks for so ive got to show everybody my hat and i want you to show everybody and explain the poster behind you. First this hat of minor got to show people this. This is from another haymarket author, from the 68 olympics but he gave me this hat he has the olympic colors at the shadow in there and look at this cool part. Flip it up. The artwork of john carlos, tommy smith and the australian runner peter norman. Just showing off my hat for everybody. Guest behind me is a portrait of my office of ali that i convinced to do for me of a long alis passing. Actually its a post visit white backdrop because putting on aye wall but he surprised me when he sent it to me is a piece we did i did on sportscenter about a lien honorarium of him and his legacy. He took the script put in the backdrop that means a lot to me. The centerpiece in my office in chicago. Looks similar to this but first i want to introduce you to around the country that may not necessarily know about you and your background. I find absently fascinating. Can you tell folks about how you came up . About your parents there politics their commitment and how that translate into your life customer. My mother and father were both members of the black Panther Party. My father probably more and because he was a newspaper journalist who the first black newspaper reporter in chicago, one of the first ten in the country. My mother was a social worker. She was also a public activist. Silt back in the day in the 60s i was born in 63, theyre both contributing members to the party. I was raised under that. I was raised under that mentality. Kind of came with it from everything i have done its kind of been my foundation. Not that so the Panther Party but that mode of thinking of black selfesteem. And not only that, i live in an area with south shore chicago. My wife and i weve been together for 26 years, married longer than that together. With never left south shore. As for the mosque where islam is. I came up like blocks away with my mother and father not necessarily claiming any certain religion, not only growing up in a household is rooted in black panther ideology, we grew up from his religious standpoint of following the word not as fairly religiously but culturally down the street. The roots of black empowerment black entrepreneurship, do for yourself or die a slave, that mentality that exists to my career to find a way to navigate using that is not necessarily a lead but does not make any sense at all. Anybody reads this book will see it. Go through the idea not just black pride but black empowerment. And using sports as a platform is an antiracist platform. As it should be given the facts without black bodies you dont have this multibilliondollar athletic industrial complex. We need to be reminded that more than we are. Think were in a situation right now my thing as a writer you look at it through that prism. I think sometimes we get away from that because the power of black athletes in america has risen to a level where we almost forget that as powerful as black athletes have come collectively they still dont hold the power. With me, i look at the cultural and business side not just the performance i but the cultural and business side of sports what does a half, there is a prism that lends itself youre always distinctively understand race plays in that. Id tried to consolidate that prism in the 13 chapters. And you do it which is so impressive. When you say that about this appearance of power without the actuality of power, really does make me think about some of the news today but the National Football league. Theyre going to have a big three hour special on espn where they can unveil the schedule, the nfl is talking if the coronavirus is just a distraction or dust on their shoulder. Theyre going. My head this fall with games this fall. It makes me think about the lack of power of the black athlete in this particular scenario. Typical career only last three years, contracts are not guaranteed, and nfl ownership, they need these games played to get billions of dollars in broadcast funds. The athletes themselves are in a position where frankly a lot of American Workers are in this position outwards like play or go home, work or go home. inward for lease. Yeah, right. On a temporary basis. So i see that and i see the importance for what you bring to double to be part of the sports dialogue. Its interesting you say the way you view that and it made you look at that dynamic as far as black players and i immediately thought about the lack of black executives. I put the players aside. Theres nobody in the nfl in position to even further this conversation and say, hey, lets not do this because of this. And i wasnt even think of the ownership situation because there are no black owners but just from the executive standpoint, somebody to use a proverbial term with a seat at the table, and not serving the table. Actually sit down as an equal or partner or a voice, or voices, to say to the the nfl owners and the commissioner and all the other executives, in that business mode or in a Business Model we call the nfl, you know what . We need to at least think about this because this is how its going to effect this. Can we rethink this . Can we not treat this virus as an aside . Right. Maybe you about somebody in the room looking for the societal effect. Or the societal role it will play in others making decisions. Not just the nfl putting out a schedule. Its the ill pact the nfl has and how people connect with that and react to what the nfl does. Right. Without having any executives or anybody of power, real true executive power within the nfl think tank to further that discussion or push that agenda, elite to the table, so there may she hesitancy in putting out a schedule or moving forward they way theyre going to move forward. It would be good. My mind went straight to the fact we have no black executives or executives of color who are connected to the situation were in a much different way than rich, white men who to at least make them think about Something Differently. What youre saying strikes to the heart of win and how sports will reopen because this president put together his reopen sports committee, and his committee is it would be shocking we havent been living through this for four years but its all the male sports commissioners are for the mens sports and its a group of owners, like this buddies, jury jones, owner of the cowboys, report, open enore. The patriots, mark cukan, owner of the mavericks. Its a committee out reopening ports and theres Health Experts on it no black people on it no women on it. Given how diverse the field of play is, you actually have to go consciously make that effort to create something that looks like a country club. How sports are going to reopen. Thought this whole thing, this is not just specifically directed at sports. Just in general, in looking at the people in control and making decisions of what we do as a nation, as a black person out there, man, this is a bad time not to trust white people. Because im serious. If you look at the governors, look at the people in administration and the white house, if you look at the scientists, man, you know what im saying, if you are black conspiracy theorist or minority who doesnt trust white males . This is a bad time not to trust them, man, because everything thats happened is in heir hands. Everything. Its something, though. Any small d democracy has to be built on a sense of trust and accountable,. Exactly. And to have an absence of trust and accountability, which we do not have in this country, is trust or accountability, makes a time like now all the more dangerous and part of the explanation for why this country is in the place its. In before we go on that tangent, im so sorry. I got off topic. I want to ask you specific we call this from ethreat lebron, the along road to freedom and i want to get into some history a little bit, and wanted to know, when you were first conscious of the person behind you, muhammad ali, and what his influence meant to you. Really day one. I was born in 1963, so i explained my parents, affiliation with the black social movement, black Panther Party and operation push and operation bread basket with Jesse Jackson and he importance of king and the sports connection, john and tom and the olympics and the whole movement that was going on within our society. Ali, i like to say i cant remember a time ever not having that mans name, his presence, and his practice, being a part of my life and being at the forefront of our lives of an example of what black pride exemplified, and more importantly, the way you should feel about yourself. I he never forget the first column i rote for espn i cant remember the exact line but i nut three muhammad ali is more important than Jackie Robinson and a lot of people didnt get. That Jackie Robinson did break a color barrier and opened up the doors for black individuals to just become a part of different facets of society, not just sports, but in business and in all of the walks of life but Something Different about someone who makes an entire race feel about themselves. To me that goes much further than being able to almost be accepted by somebody else. You dont need somebodys approval to feel a certain way about yourself, and ali made us feel a way about ourselves that no other athlete or nobody on that type of global stage has ever done before. So, once again me coming up blocks away from the mosque, and my parents being who they were and black society being what it was, for the most part, ali was he had almost religious, and i really theres no way i can pin point it without it. What year did he fight liston . 1964. Right, of 64. I was born in 63. Im very vaguely i dont even remember cassius clay. Cassius clay was foreign to me. A year after i was born, less than a year every was born, he is muhammad ali, and a small quoteunquote church in that was down the street from where i was living became the center of a global religion. I was at the foot of all of that happening, from one years old. So, to answer your question, theres never been a time in my life where i can even go back to thinking where he wasnt he didnt play a role. So, ali he sets down a marker that says if you have to be about something more than sports, and if you got if you have platform you have toite for something bigger than sports. Do you see people like lebron james lets go suspect toy to lebron. Do you see lebron being as a part of that tradition or is lebron part of Something Else . Part of what ali built or does he build his own thing . Where do youll see lebron in thats kinnum. I think lebron has bit his own thing, i think lebron has used he used the context of the culture were in to specifically reach audiences and make moves and send messages that wouldnt have worked 50 years ago because of various reasons. Very strategic how he has moved things. Think he has done his own thing thing and theres a spirit there that had ali not existed lebron would have made moved directly. Lebron is very grounded in what ali stood for and what ali without actually saying those words, being more than an athlete meant, and he carried that with him but carries it very smartly and not recklessly. Right. At the same time, im not one of those individuals that looks at lebron and expects him to be the next al limit im not the one who looks at Michael Jordan and expect him to be the next ali, looks a Serena Williams and say you need to be the next ali. Understand this man is unique in a way that we may never see him again. The same way malcolm x was unique in a way we may never see him. The same we Martin Luther king was unique and me never see him im. Nelson mandela, unique. Gandhi. We can go down the line to individuals that we will never see again, and i think muhammad ali is in that realm of conversation and we can include that and not put that on 0 athletes. They need to be him in order to have a social, political, racial, economic impact. That is not healthy thinking. Especially from us being minorities. We have i talked about thiswe as black people specially when it comes to sports and in parts of Movement Moving forward of the culture we have this thing but looking and searching for absolute blackness that almost becomes harmful, like we want all of our black heroes to not just wear day cant have flaws. They have to do everything and human beings dont function that way. Its not like ali is flawless. Its not likely bon is flawless, not like receive temperature, serena, tiger woodses, we can find flaws in black athletes and black politicians and black activist, find flaws down the line. Our problem is, we start to nitpick on lebron doing everything . What . Does he have to do everything in why does he have to be perfect in order to be important . Let him do his thing and is a long as hes not doing any harm, we cant expect him to do everything and i think we get caught up in that and i try to not be part of that, put i said it all i believe ali did things on such a level that we are almost think he was flawless and never made any mistakes and was the epitomy of absolute blackness and hold everybody else to what he did, and may not be another one of him and that becomes a problem. Theres great quote by ken burns, the great documentary filmmaker, ill get it wrong about he said, the greeks understood that heroes had flaws, that gods had flaws, and its like its a very specific part of our modern culture, we put people on pedestals and then theres whole process of them trying to tear them down. And instead of recognizing that part of what makes somebody a hero is how they negotiate the positive and negative parts of their character, and the war that is then enlisted as though two parts of their character go into combat with one another and thats a place where i think ali what makes him a hero is not that he was perfect but when it came time to stand up, he made the does be 12 feet tall. He didnt have to exactly. He welcome honor but shouldnt put that burden on somebody ems. Thats what makes special. If we think everything will be that think it means hes not that special. I dont want to take away from the importance of this but that is were talking about entertainers and Michael Jackson is here and Stevie Wonder and everybody else has to be like that. Thats impossible. Every now and then we get those individuals that do things on a level that the average or even the super human people cannot do but that is what separates them from everybody else, and to put the expectation on those that we consider great or carrying greatness within them, its wrongit doesnt help. Im not saying its wrong but doesnt help, and as black individuals, we dont have the luxury of having so many heroes. We only get a few heroes at a time, so we need to be very careful about bringing the heroes down. Try to make them up to a level, an impossible level because theres only a few of them that come you know, only a few that get accept. Put that way. I mentioned lebron in the first place and being in that tradition because of a tweet he did not have to do but a tweet he sent out that has gotten a lot of play, tremendous amount of publicity, where he is speaking about the case of Ahmaud Arbery in georgia in february was hunted down by a former Police Officer and his son, white former Police Officer and his son, in a case that has so many echos of Trayvon Martin case and this is what lebron said, he said were literally hunted every day, every time we step foot out the confident of our homes. Cant even good for a damn jog, man, like wtf, man, are you kidding me . No, are you kidding he. Guest im sorry, ahmaud, rest in paradise and my prayers and blessings sed to you, Ahmaud Arbery. What does that do i have my own theories but what does that do when someone like lebron james actual live notices an injustice like this and amplifies it . What does that do . Does it do anything . Am i overthinking it make an impact. I think his words resonate and his actions resonate and its sentiments resident res nat. We didnt have twitter 40 years ago, so to have an outlet where you can voice unfilteredly how you feel about certain things, without having to call a press conference, without having to have people around you, without worrying how you message will be broadcast globally. You have the power to make statements about how you feel about certain things and lebron has used that, i think, masterfully, this how he feels and theres a lot of people that dont feel that dish think lot of times people understand that feeling but dont agree with him having that feeling. For the fact that i put it this way, that lebron understands that there are going to be sections or of society globally that understands him feeling that way but should not publicly convey him feeling that way but still does it, you know what im saying . Says a lot about him and what imle not going to say hes willing to risk but how important he feels it is to have his voice out there to support other voices that arent like his that feel the same way he does, and i think he understandses that there are a lot of people, youll ma may be included, i may by included, our family members other, people we dont next, random people, theyre people putting out pest televisions to get petitions to try to find incident. Thats whole other thing. The fact we have to send out petitions to try to get these two individuals arrested for murder. The fact we had a whole nuther story. But lebron putting out tweet like that for people that have felt that way and publicly used twitter, used facebook, used instagram, use all type of social media to put their own message out there, what lebron does in his tweet just validates theyre feelings. That helps. I hope that it can even play a small role in what i call puncturing privilege. You have white people who are fans of lebron, but have the privilege to not care about Ahmaud Arbery and maybe if lebron says something it can puncture that privilege and they actually have to be confronted with the reality of Ahmaud Arberys life and the reality of justice in this country, or absence of justice. I agree with you but heres why i think hope will fall on deaf ears from the white side. He used the word we and this is a component of being black in america. I dont want to day zay global my but being black in america that we have to deal with that White America doesnt understand how they separate us because in White Americas eyes, when lebron used the word we theyre like youre not a part of them. You dont get hunted down every day, and in all that he does but its in a different way. So when they read his quote, the backlash will be, youre not there lebron so now your post touring, including yourself in a part of society you dont exist in anymore and we know theres no separation of black folks because we know huh he we are al trited regardless of what status of life we live, in but most of White America does not understand that, so i think what youre saying, thats really hopeful but for the most part i can see that falling on deaf ears because the minute he used be word we theyre both to say he included himself in that and heels not part of what hes saying. Lebrons house was vandalized a few years back, certain parasites of the sports page saying, oh, well, we dont really believe that happened, and its like you decent believe it happened because you dont want to believe it happened. Exactly. And shake your world view. And that can happen to me, that can happen to a guy next door but lebron is not hes not black. Hes not like you all. Thats the exact same belief. Im not black, im oj. Thats a quote. I but i wanted to ask you about a couple 0 folks. An amazing chapter but womens sports and i actually read it with my daughter. I was fantastic, called them, too, the unrespected worth of the woman athlete and that make med think but Megan Rapinoe and the way she has tried to link with tis tradition in a way thats really interesting. A way that is humble and says im not leading this. Just as a gay american i want i know what i its like to not have my right respected, as woman making very little on the dollar that male soccer players make issue get it and i support Colin Kaepernick, and im going to be able to try to figure out a space where i can use my platform to show Something Like that. Men, let me tell you hundred two regret is have. I have many but these or two just off the top of my head. One, megan and i spent a day together in seattle, man, doing part of the kaepernick situation with nike and spent a day together and had really decent, long, engaging conversations across the board bought where we stood in america. Kind of got a decent insight on where she privately feels about those things and made my respect her more. The problem that one regret i have is that i have that entire conversation that could not clued include evidence in the book. I had a consideration with lavar ball, conversation with Charles Barkley and a conversation with megan rap people know i could not include in the book and it bothered me, and the other regreat i have, had i thought and had i not written a book before last summer happened, i would have included megan not only in in them two chap childrn chapter with steve kerr and made eight three pillar chapter. Shes a powerhouse. She is. And i like the fact that she is not waiverring. I love they fact she is notwaverring but in my short time of getting to spend time with her she doesnt seem like the person that would waveer or can be shifted on her beliefs because like many true, true authentic people, that try to not think about their status in america, you know, she doesnt care what the response is because as chuck v would say, god knows. Because its coming from the heart. Because its coming from the heart, yes. The lyric just ran through my head. Exactly. From the heart. Yes. I would be remiss also i mean, for goodness sakes youre a chicago guy to the core, and i want to ask you about where Michael Jordan fits into this discussion were talking about, about sports, politics, activism, leveraging fame, racism,y jordan fits. First, can you tell us as a chicago guy, the first time you met Michael Jordan and what your impressions were of him. First time i met Michael Jordan . Was his man. I shook his hand and met him, but im trying to think where i met him. I happened to be its funnity. Can be i was one of the few individuals that was at that 82 game in new orleans in the superdome. Really. I went to school in university in new orleans and my father, because the final four what i dont know how my father did it but he found a way to get two tickets for my roommate and i to go to that game in the superdome. So we were like way, way, way up. But we knew about jordan, but we were asked i was at that game and i was pulling for and my roommate was pulling for North Carolina. Thats a different story. Then he came here and played Summer League basketball at chicago state university, back in the day, where just it was our program. Michael did that. I cant remember if it was before or after his rookie year but im sure i met him at that point then. At some point during the course of his first three or four years, i think we shook hands but think pout it is that i didnt mean anything to him at the time because we hadnt seen started i was just a kid out of graduate school. Getting my hustle on. So, to me honest, to really say when i shook his hand, and him like youre scoop jackson, my names scoop jackson, that probably changed upon right on the edge of his first maybe ring three or right after that. Once you got actually know him beyond a handshake what was er general impression. I new all type of i was in his presence a lot. Even without even meeting him and doing this, that and the other and i knew the people he hung with and how he carried himself and i respected the fact he seemed extremely authentic. Like, you run into a lot of people who reach a certain amount of fame. He reached fame quickly. People dont understand huh fast he became fame famous. They want to clue that shot in North Carolina as his introduction to the world but we have seen cat with a Chris Jennings who had the last shoulder no vessel villanova, which is jennings. Chris jenkins. He that the shot to hit that. His fame didnt start there Michael Jordans fame didnt really start then. His fame really, really started when he got drafted number three behind sam bowie, that is under one. Then he introduced himself to the world during that olympics. Thats when he really started to go global. And then his first couple of games in chicago where he really went like bananas and his kid is real, and when you rarely get your first week of your professional clear do you make the cover of sports illustrate. A star is born, remember i remember the cover. Thats when it started to hit. For us is was like, oh, my god, this dude in chicago he became special extremely, extremely quick. That being said, being around him, and people that i grew up with that were around him michael really induced himself and didnt separate himself from the hood. Im a black dude from carolina. Im not im doing whatever the brothers do in chicago do. Hanging with quinten daley, hes hanging with rod higgins. Rod higgins was his boy. Back in the day. That was back in the day where there was no real like true celebrity kind of split. The velvet rope had not been invented yet. When you went to places leak we idea to go to, like the charlie club, when the hot black club back in the day. Mike could be there, juanita, the bulls would be there and you irintermingle. Theres not a v. I. P. Section. Didnt roll like that go to the street and hang out. Everybody walked around and got their party on and he walked up. Michael be out there. The bulls out there. Just black they just be out, everybody be kicking it, and mike, for being as famous as he was and how quick he came, he never really separated himself. Never created a velvet rope like that. So, gained appreciation for that. We could have seen so easily, yall do your thing, not being from chicago, me being mike jordan. I aint from you. I dont get down with you. Thats not how we roll. Im going to roll a different way. Never, ever, ever did that. Its interesting you say that. Brings me to the last dance. And the last dance gives the impression he even tells stories about it, that those early years, he was just like mr. Home body, not doing anything, and he would walk into the hotel room and see some of the folks you mentioned, and he was, like, walked in and then turned around and walked right out because it was too much of a scene for him and he was too busy think can about his craft and he wasnt a nerd. He still hang about out but they lets be real. That is not his a lot of stuff going on in professional sports anyway. Dont have me bring up the new york mets. The team growing up. Right. My team, too, so we cant think it was just the bulls players or just the bulls team. Im pretty sure the phoenix suns, the nets, down the line, we get the the whole career and you dont that was going on in professional sports at the time and what hey consider doing sometimes was a little extra for mike. So michael would it wasnt like he was a herd. Want just sitting up ironing his shorts. He would get out and do things and kick it every night, and was part of whatever was going on and always been that way but went from being a part of what was going on to setting settinge standard for what was going on. That brings me to the last dance. Ive got some issues ive been very entertained by last dance, very b tear and inin the context of coronavirus, very grateful to have something to look forward. To i have some real issues with it, though, and some problems with it, enumerate what thoseert but i want to ask you thundershower thoughts about it. I feel the exact same way. Head to separate journalism from fame when i watch that and separate myself from being someone who was part of that last season and seasons lead up to that has seasonbeing around that team and knowing the participants the with a i knew them issue have to find a way so separate that and just become a fan of the doc are you series and enjoy it for what it is and the narrative, not necessarily trying to shape but the narrative theyre trial to tell, the purpose of this film. So, i have found a way to be able to do that, and keep the other side of things where i find flaws in it, to the side and i dont want to be that cantankerous, old, getting old, man that makes has a problem with everything. We have to enjoy things for what they and are what theyre trying to do in the last dance is only trying to tell a story, and actuality of what that last season was for them as a team. Its not a documentary on Michael Jordans life. Its not a documentary on whatever else we want to make it about. Its literally about that it uses different parts to bring back that story. So i have to keep reminding myself, why are they going teacher sneer thats not a part of what this is about. So i have to keep in mind and i found way to do that and still enjoy it. You used one example, i was upset about the absence of mentioning another hay market books author, mr. Craig hodges no mention of craig and when theyre doing the flashbacks and especially when they were talking about jordan and politics, craig hodges was such unique figurer in early 90s and seeing himself in that kind of ali tradition of saying im going to use this platform to try to do something, and craig is not in the script. And heres the thing. Agree with you and i love craig more than like 99 of the athletes that are walking the face of the earth right now. But my takeaway from that is, one, he wasnt part of that final team, and everything is built around that final team. Two, john harper doesnt get mentioned and hes a big part of that. I cant go and expect craig who wasnt part of the team to be mentioned or give me some in the flashback when they talk put the 990 season, 9091. Once again auction of to the soaps connected to what is current in the story telling. Yeah. Im not giving its pass. Just trying to put it connected. Im not dish understand even if it is wrong, why someone like craig is not included because im looking at people thatunder currently on the team that are not included, and it tells the story what the final season was like and im being fair about all of this. The fact they havent done really anything, really, outside of what michael and scotty did, theyre not talk but tony and he is important to this squad. A couple years before he was sixth man of the year. So he goes almost unmentioned. So, i dont take the craig thing as personal. Im looking at people who are current lay part of the team and i know how big of a role ron harper played from a basketball statement and getting the rings and him not get a mention in cleveland . Come on, man. And i want to we have some questions piling up that folks have for you. I would be remills if i didnt ask you what your thoughts were in this continuum of people you who use sport, your thoughted about Colin Kaepernick and i guess i want to phrase the question in two parts. One, what werure thoughted about Colin Kaepernick back in august 2016 when he first took the knee and what are your thoughts now . My first thought and i kind of address it in the book, this is something he did silently and something he necessarily didnt want to good public. We, members of the media, brought that public. He took on a burden and a movement that he never asked for. And the fact he stayed true to that, without saying that, hey, hey, i didnt ask for this. I appreciate he didnt pack beau. He was informant trying to bring attention to himself. He was just doing him. Thats it. And the spotlight fell on him but he never shied away from the spotlight so i gained a certain appreciation on that. Moving forward, i personally am glad that he never got a chance im saying chance very loosely let me change that word. He never got the opportunity to enter back into the nfl. I never wanted him after this entire episode to get back to the nfl so the whole thing but Roger Goodell and other individuals trying to create an opportunity for him to showcase to get back in, what he did, im cool with, put i were he would have said no from the very beginning, and i understand how much football means to hem but what he has been through and he way he has been treat i look at the Bigger Picture and im like dont give them the luxury of being able to say, we did this. We did this for you. We let you back. In dont give them that. Go out of the this thing as a martyr. I never wanted him to give any nfl owners or the league itself an out in this entire story. Im glad that what happened with him attempting to get back and im glad he is not back in the nfl and hope he never gets a chance to go back in the nfl. If really do. Its interesting. Not to selfplug or anything, but i self plug. Ive again quarantined and work on this book i have an idea called the kaepernick effect and interviewing high school, middle school and college kids who took a knee and i dont think people realize how deep it got in really small communities. Got no attention. Death thefts leveled atyearold kid, people showing up in confederate flags and guns because a cheerleader takes a knee in upstate new york. So many toward people were influenced by this one gesture because they felt they had to do something but didnt know what something was and then they see it and say, i can do that. Heres the this dave and its all well and good, but a brother cant take a jog in georgia without getting hunted down and without us having to sign a petition to get an investigation and get the people arrested. So you can always taking a knee is symbolic and cute but that doesnt change the fact of what collin kneeled for in the binge and the situation is what we are living in right now it what this is about and yet were still here. Youre right, and shoutout to the brave people both in georgia and in indianapolis where a young man named shawn reid was guesses couple. That irprotest in the middle of pandemic, wearing masks, trying stay six feet apart and forced out of theirs house to do this and its not going to get a tenth of the coverage of the confederate waving gun toting michigan protesters or anything like that. And hes are folks ribsing their health because they feel like they have no choice but to be heard. Its really something. Yes, it is. Let me ask you some questions. Yes, sir. Some great questions. I get a run through these billy jones questions because hes get some great ones. Which book has changed the wail you thought the most . Alex haileys book, not roots but the book he did with the his interviews. He interviewed a lot of the prominent socially responsible individuals in america during the time with Playboy Magazine, and i was people said they read playboy for whatever but alex hailey was that writer because he interviewed jfk, interviewed malcolm kansas, Martin Luther king, interviewed meat of fact his interview in Playboy Magazine started with a spring board to malcolm xs autobiography but all the put all this interviews in Playboy Magazine in a collective and i think its called, alex hailey the interviews, and i read them as i was coming up independently. You know as a writer, we need things collectively, consolidated as opposed to spread over years, changes the entire digestion of what you just read. Its kind of like listening to somebodys career musically over the course of their entire career and then getting that box set and listening to the box set in one setting. It changes everything so the one book to answer that question, was alex haileys playboy interview. That changed everything for me as a grown individual. Wow, great answer. So interesting because so many people when theyre asked that question say, autobiography of malcolm x and when you said alex hailey it thought thats where you start but you were much more expansive. Everybody in there and his as a journalist his questions not only his questionasking but what he was able the answers he was able to get out of these individuals that nobody was able to get. It was amazing to me to read all that. What i learned about those people and what i learned but journalism and what i learned about questioning and and what i learned about like not interviewing people but holding conversations. All of that came from that book. Brilliant. Another question, i got to go through my billy jones questions. He is referencing directly chapter 12 in the game is not a game, which is such a good book. The chapter is called the number in numbers and its the numb in numbers and the a critique of analytics and billy says i get your point put do you feel that analytics takes away the soul, spirit, emotion and intensity from the game . I think it does from a professional level and i understand when were dealing with professional sport and im including College Sports because they are professional prognoses as some point of sports because of the money engine rates to be foolish to look at them as anything but professional. But i do think at some point takes away from the freedom that sports gives on a professional level because the professional level of sports is about winning. Its a winning business. So, i understand that but i do feel at this point in time, because of how important and how relevant analytics has been, not just from a consumer standpoint but from a functional standpoint as far as coaches and scouts and video, and execution, that there are theres a component that has soft ena lot of the creativity of freedom we have allowed ourselves to fall in love with when it comes to sports and from the athlete directly, doing things as a reaction as opposed to just a thought. So, yes, i do believe that. And once again, ive never said that analytics is all wrong. I said all analytics are wrong. Theres room for both of these to be coexisting, in professional sports at this period of time but seems to be all on one its all or nothing. And im looking at the role sports has played, especially for africanamericans and black individuals in america and what that means beyond just the functionality of supports on the field of play or on the court, and how that including analytics and giving so much power takes away from everything sports has meant to us. Or done for us. Yeah. Howard bryant has a great piece up, i put itman twitter feefield where the talk notice period of coronavirus this was published today has had him watching a lot of classic games, and had him think thinking it was consecutive the way it was broadcast, the way it was brought to you, the way people played, without being so hung up on those front Office Details of analytics. I think its very interesting, a lot of analytic is find fascinating. The worst part is it puts the viewer in the position of thinking theyre a Front Office Person, and it puts the broadcast are like theyre some Front Office Person crunching the numbers incities of just immersing yourself in the joy of play. Exactly. Now, lets take that back and how do you think that fakes fake do affects the athletes on the field if they keep if they keep getting this information poured into this, this the way it needs to happen . Oh, wildly. Right. Better jack up 4030s a game or we breaks down the an littal break town. Im not going to take this shot because its going affect my percentages. Its going bring down this. This is not maybe a im being taught this is not a good shot, and i the one thing tried to do in that chapter is separate basketball from all the other sports that use analytics because i think basketball, and ill include socker in this are such immediate reactionsary sports its hard to include that type of data as being at the forefront how the sport can function and move. Baseball is extremely strategic and basically built off statistics. Football is extremely strategic, and less built off of data the way baseball is but straightic in movement and plays. Basketball and like i said soccer, they you do what the defense gives you, you react to what is right in front of you, and it doesnt lend itself for you to think numbers and four or five plays or movements ahead of time in order to make this to go work 0 certain way because this the way im taught its supposed to work, from a video coward coordinator assistant coach who wants this dat executed. It just doesnt lendtothat the with a it basketball and soccer dont lend itself to an analytic platform the way other sports can. So in the chapter i specifically used basketball, specifically and then how we apply analytics to tell stories and we leave so much out of when were stressing certain data or why certain things happened. Well put indeed. And the one last question here is, if you had the power to change the Sports Interest entertainment industry, you have 24 hours, what do you do . Put more women sports on. Thats all. I real request think thats a problem and i think we in our male our toxic male dominated society, especially at the expense of those who control sports, especially the media side of sports, we miss out on not only just the performance of what women do but the greatness that women bring to the table when it comes to competition. So i would find a way to highlight that a lot more and make it become normal instead of like, something that is ancillary. Theres a great sports writer, lindsey gibbs, her columnedder in the headline of power plays and she had this argument that said, how it would change the sports world for the better if when sports come back, you give women sports just like a week before mens sports just come trampling in. Just a week. So everybody who is starved for sports can tune in and see, all these amazing athletes, soccer, all of it, and just imbibe it. Take it in, see it for what it is. Heres the thing. Then youll have a black History Month all over again. What is that doing . They just deserve to be nice to use the week as an introduction and then continue that and make it just normal. Just make it part of the regular influx of how we digest sports in this country, and we all talk but this equality and diversity and stuff but when 80 of the sport wisdom watch are being told to watch are being having the ability to watch is male sports and women represent much smaller, 2 of that, thats not equality. You know what im saying . So its were missing out on a lot. We are. No doubt. And as someone who lives in d. C. And got to see the washington mystics roll to a championship, it was a lot of fun. Elean na and chrisy toll her. People would consciously opt out of having fun. Just so maddening to me some speaks to the sexism of which youre talking about. I kind of deal with this in the book. We also dont those who champion womens sports and understand the importance of women lazy sports were still not doing our part on our regular normal basis by incorporating this into what we do on a regular by says, and i want the wnba finals but i wasnt having a bun of the fellas coming over and say we need to get together as if i it whats nba final. Im not watching wimbledon or the u. S. Womens songer team the same way i watch u. S. Mens Basketball Team and my engagement and, like, not just me personal but the engagement, lets good to bar and watch this. Im not rallying like we do around a football game. Lets go the bar and watch the chiefs mail the rams. Lets do that. But why not . Why wouldnt we do that white arent re doing that when comunicate to the wnba finals . Dave, lets go to bar and go watch this game and when get to the bar and demand though show it on the screen. So even if we cant be, still not doing it for the regular basis, which is considered our normal when county toms thing wed defor male sports. Were just as bad as everybody else. We all have to think of ways we can correct our approach to the purposes of promoting what is i think really important, i think youre absolutely right about that. Packy has an interesting question. How useful is the w. E. B. Dubois slick booker t washington, personal verse economic, activism, to move against racism. How useful is that it dem plat to understand the he john james issue Michael Jordan duality . Thats a great question. I think were living in a day and age right now where at some point you need both. Dough abuse dubois was spectacular talk about the duality blacks and africanamerican thieves knives when he talked bet the souls of black folk in 1903. He broke that down in a way that still is prom meant to this day and have to function with. Mr. Washington was strictly did a lot of what he was doing on the economic side of what black people have to amass in order to find some type of leverage in this country and he had a view of how important economic was in america. I look at both of them and understand the root of what they were getting at and the roles they played today. But i dont hold, once again, each individual accountable to do everything. In those roles. I dont ask Michael Jordan to be as socially outspoken as lebron james while he is handling things economically for black individuals that no other fortune 100 no other fortune 500 no other franchise in sports is doing when it comes to expiring placing black expectsives in roles that black people werent looked and the power of having the ownership and what i means to at least see a black male in america amass not only a billion dollars but becoming a billionaire in a society and a country that economics is first and foremost. I understand the power that actually has. Because guess what . Take him out of that conversation, and where are we . We look at sports as black individuals that role is play in emancipating emancipating and liberating us and normalizing news White America. Look at the role that sports as played in normalizing black individuals. Im not trying be flippant or funny, but, hell, before jack johnson and joe louis we were still considered lower human beings. They gave us sports gave black people in this country he other twofifths youve keep that in mind and one of the only three black billionaires, we have in this country, is somebody who didded through sports. So if you take that speak out of this conversation, what role does sports really have for us in america without somebody a massing some type of ownership, some time of billionaire status . I understand the importance of that so im not going to look at mike to be a social activist. I understand the role he plays and i understand the roll he plays in giving lebron a path to follow he didnt have to follow the same path but can follow part her to path andtle be socially conscious and put out messages that now at the same time im not expecting lebron james to be craig hodges. I think it goes back to what i was saying about absolute blackness. What due boys and washington were talking bow back in the day we have existing right now but i see a balancing act going on across the board, where everything they spoke about is in part of the individuals at the top hoff at the food from hand county ymca statement in both socialism and economics. Interesting. Interesting indeed. Ive had my critiques of jordan over the years but every time people ask about him speaking out i always want to ask, are you speaking out . And why do we ask of athletes what we dont and of yourselves. Exactly. It is the superman syndrome where you expect somebody to come down from planet awesome to lead the way and some of that come out peoples desperation to see social change and comes from a misreading of history. The 1950s and 60s dont happen, if malcolm x doesnt happen, were not talking about muhammad al limp you dont have that poster behind you. Theyre a function of their times and the time in which they go that process. Lets be honest, dave, we have been through this, we werent existing maybe starting eight or nine years ago, maybe further back, maybe ten, but late say nine years where there seemed to be a large generation of apathy. When it came to athletes and them using their voice to speak their pain and a lost it could have been connected to economics or the economics that wouldnt be afforded to them had they used their voice to Say Something, or wasnt able to feel a certain way, and when we deal with black america during that time period, the post ali, premiya moor. Generation of athletics, where what aim going to be charged with if die Say Something but heres the thing if i do Say Something but as im an athlete feeding off society. Society is not saying anything there was no quoteunquote black power militant political socially active movement going on in society as it pertained to minorities the same way it was with in the seven inside. The 80s and 90s and the quarrel 2000s there was no quoteunquote movement. That is part of labor discipline. That is the thing. He has so much more value to the nfl as a ghost story that he did as a player. It was a form of labor and discipline. Is a spiral of silence. You Say Something that society. It has the power to spiral you into silence. Weve seen many athletes go through that their onset and island by themselves at the time that they didnt from the media standpoint basically from the is a standpoint. We are able to make them seem like they were not the rule. They were not the norm. Their voices became quieter and quieter because we were also instructed not to rally around them. There was no colonization. They want to Say Something. They will rally around it. They have the mini movement that existed that he was going to be able to find support rick or less of the direction that the media wanted to take the story. It is about being able to out put those ideas through social media. Against bush and the war. All of these emotions and i said to them when you speak out about this. People want to hear your voice. To be ever looked at the sports media. There are not a lot of people i can talk too. What is the point of talking to them if im just gonna get crushed to do it. Even if they have individuals in sports. We were going to find it together. Exactly. I remember you wrote an article a long time ago about being in a role with other journalists in you being the only one who had editorial powers. Made a real strong impression on me as a lungs young person. Youre the only one that actually gets to see what you write. It is a good thing for you but for me its a sad thing because you look around the room and you see those individuals in places like apparently you should want to go. Do i really want to go there and what is the true definition of power. Where you take it that is a cool part. I just thought the column was cool. I remember it 20 years later. It was the writing that stayed with me. Thats im trying to do. It relates to so much weve been talking about. Or is it just on the dl. This is so dependent on the movement in the cases that are going on outside the leak. I think your neck in the sea much if the nfl exists in a vacuum but if we start seeing it. If we start to see in these cases. I think there is a pipeline that now exist between the peoples and the players that did not exist before. Its something you could see reviving again. It is not going to raise revive itself in a vacuum. Heres my thing. The thing i look at. And it happened with the backyard. If they do anything. At the petition doesnt get signed. Its not dead. In the nfl. Thats basically what theyre trying to call to action. What is going on. Thats not even an issue with us. It was about injustice. That the people of color specifically black people at the hands of Police Officers. In this case its those who had guns. Or as things that happen to us because we are black that is what this entire movement was all about. Because it happened inside confines of the nfl. He became an nfl issue. Where colin and ed reed may have been trained to voice trying to voice something louder outside the nfl i think their mission was to see if anybody inside the nfl heard them. And once again, lets use our Current Situation if a situation goes on with the falcons contributes in some way and uses his voice the Atlanta Falcons are an organization and they will not stand for this. If they put the field on the petition youd be able to knock me over with a feather if that happened. I feel like the nfl is almost distinct. I think there is an entrenched soul of racism in the National Football league because in part of the sport you are looking at black bodies like they are at home. And then that filters the way out. There are only three black coaches in the football league. That was the a crisis. 20 years ago. And its three again. In the amount of executives i think even lower than three at this point. And obviously we talked about there being no ownership. It is hard to separate the absence of representation with how the players are treated on the field. And how to dispose of late they are treated in the game. They were held by black individuals in the game. And how disposable they have really become in football. And that could be part of my argument towards the power and analytics. Youre basically just exercising the right to eliminate an entire roll of football. With 99 percent of those players in black. Have these thoughts. That is real talk right there. The black athletes. In the clearing and the goldmine. Get ready. You make a good point. For me as a black individual wish and just stop should just stop at the coaches situation. There are some the other roles. We are qualified for. And should be prominent in the intellect in the sport. That we are not even a part of. I just dont want the competition to stop the coaches. When there are 11 black coaches instead of three and everythings on all good. Its the same thing i said about cap her neck. For that part of the reason they never wanted to go back. There would be the sole coup by a situation where he is back in the leak everything is all good there were still 29 others that didnt. Jamal health had that great line. Cap next social justice award as if nothing ever happened. If we do it will they fall for it. We actually have a request from someone that clearly listens to you. We are just about at the end of time. I always ask you what kind of music you are listening to it these days because you have such a mind for music i was hoping you could share with us what is getting you through the quarantine. I had been taking deep dives into the dj set basically spends global trial. I had been doing that for the last couple years. I have gone the mixed cloud for those across the world. They are basically going to the african brutal tribal. There had been a plethora of those. Every day it is a different journey trying to lead through health music through the court outside of that though. Did you realize that they put out something for the last chance. I had been going through the playlist that associates themselves with the docket series. It is ridiculously dope. I have it on spot if i. Fantastic. I could listen to black sheep all day. The beastie boys up in there. The cure ration is really dope. I think its maybe 45 songs. That has been my last two days. To make it sounds good to me. The game is not a game. Any other things you want to say. Not about the book. I think it speaks for itself. Nineteen years in the making. I want to Say Something about the book. We will have such a better sports world if people take the time to read this and listen to what theyre trying to say. For that niece and nephew that you have out there. Who is into sports. Buy a copy for yourself. And given white people that you care about and love. Its an act of love to share this book. That is my hope. Thats all you can help with. Thank you so much for taking the time. Can i get one shot out before we go. Give yourself out. Im wearing my temple had to today was their graduation from temple university. On this day celebrating the graduation. I at least want to get them a shout out because finishing college is a big deal and im proud of both of them. Wow. In the atmosphere. You know how proud fathers are, were up there. I just want to remind folks about two upcoming events. They would host another chicago person. With how we radically reimagine that. If youve never seen yves ewing may 14 you want to be there. Immigrant justice. Think you before we close i want to remind people if youre in a position to make a donation no matter how small. From all over this world we hope to see you soon. Think youd scoop think you scoop. You were are able to do this. I really appreciate it. Peace out everybody. Here some of the is some of the current bestselling nonfiction books. Samantha power on her life and career. The exam in the Science Behind why we make a bad decision. It is a splendid in the bile. With the leadership between the london blitz. The bestselling nonfiction books according to pasadena california bookstore is Michelle Obamas memoir becoming. The bestselling book of 2018. Some of them have appeared on book tv and you can watch them online and book tv. Org. They are damaging americas democracy. What we had was much more i can. Then the twoparty the twoparty democracy that we have now. It is truly a radical. They didnt like parties. The twoparty system. I read madison federalist ten. You want to have a democracy so that no group feels like it is going to be in the permanent minority. And no group is going to have the permanent majority. And cook and click on the afterwards page. I want to welcome everyone and please note that the audio of todays call will be posted on the website
comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.