[inaudible conversations] id like to call this hearing to order. This hearing will be a little bit different. It is perhaps the first congressional hearing held during the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic. We have a sparse crowd and expanded bias the committees hearings to the guidelines put forth by the rules committee and attending physician. Id like to thank our members and staff for their patience and understanding as we work through the logistics in holding this hearing a part of the eversight of Intelligence Community. Members will be joining us on a rotating basis throughout the morning. And again this afternoon, as we move to a closed session. Their absence now is not a reflection of the importance they place on this matter. We have asked members to watch as much of the hearings as they can from their offices, only coming into the hearing room to ask questions. Id also like to thank the press corps for your accommodation of the restrictions were facing as we seek to fulfill our requirements to open this nomination hearing in an open setting or at least as open as current circumstances allow. Media in the room today are serving as a pool representative for the Broader Media community and i know they will ensure quick and unvarnished dissemination of what is discussed in this hearing. While im person the atmosphere of this setting will feature prominently in media coverage, i know the media will be focused on the important intelligence oversight and Community Management issues that are also going to be discussed. Finally, i want to thank the nominee, who has patiently waited for this hearing. I know hes ready to get to work leading the Intelligence Community, which has continued to do its vital work under increasingly difficult conditions. These intelligence professionals, our eyes, our ears, follow developments we see in the headlines and threats that most of us will never see, from terrorists who seek to do us harm, to cyber actors probing critical infrastructure, to foreign intelligence officer, to steal research from contractors or physics professors. Countries have locked down and threats why not stopped. Our Intelligence Community as always remains on watch joining their uniformed brothers and sisters guarding a grateful, a grateful if perhaps distracted nation. They deserve and the country needs the certainty of a permanent senateconfirmed director of National Intelligence. Id like to formally recognize John Ratcliffe, the president s nominee for the president s National Intelligence. I wish i could welcome your wife and children, but given the number of people in the hearing room, i send my appreciation via cspan. I thank them for their willingness to go on this journey with you and for their support. Today we will concern congressman ratcliffes qualifications and engage in thoughtful deliberation. Congressman has provided s substenant answers to questions and todays hearing allows for personal discussions. Congressman ratcliffe was elected in 2014 to the house of representatives from the Fourth District of texas. He serves on the House Select Committee of intelligence, the House Judiciary Committee and the house ethics committee. Prior to his service in congress, mr. Ratcliffe was a partner in a law firm. During his tenure at the department of justice he served as the First Assistant u. S. Attorney as the chief antiterrorism National Security for the Eastern District of texas and then as the interim u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of texas. During that time, mr. Ratcliffe also served as mayor for the city of heath, texas. Congressman ratcliffe received his undergraduate degree from the university of notre dame, law degree from Southern Methodist university. Congressman, youve been asked to lead the National Intelligence committee different a time of challenge. We expect that youll lead the Intelligence Committee with integrity. Serve as a forceful advocate for the professionals in the United States and ensure the intelligence enterprise operates lawfully, ethically and morally. I can assure you that this continue will continue to conduct vigorous and realtime oversight over the Intelligence Community, its operations and its activities. Well ask difficult and probing questions of you and your staff and we expect honest, complete and timely responses. I want to thank you again for being here for your years of service for our country and look forward to your testimony. Before i turn to the vicechairman, id like to note the passing of our dear trend tom coburn. He served and was a valuable member of this committee. He cared deeply for this committee, its staff and the men and women of the Intelligence Community. He understood the importance of their mission and the mission of this committee. His advice, counsel and friendship will sorely be missed and i utilize it, no less than a month and a half ago. Some might wonder why my face looks a little hairy. This is the only way i could think of doing a tribute to tom coburn was to do what tom did when things were confusing and we lacked understanding what direction to go up here, as most of us know, tom would come back and he wouldnt shave for a month, two months, six months until things squared away. Im not sure im going to wait until things are squared away, but for tom for moral service to properly memorialize him. Now remarks. Thank you, mr. Chairman good to see you and my other colleagues. Let me start for a moment where you left off as somebody who spent literally years and years with tom coburn on a weekly basis with the gang of six effort. I got to know toms intelligence, integrity, irascible nature, is that the right word . Occasionally a pain in the what . Whatever . But i share with you, he will be missed and i would have joined you in that kind of tribute, but if you saw how badly any time ive tried to grow a beard would look, im probably doing better tribute by just saying things about him. Mr. Ratcliffe, its great to see you. I know these are normally hearings where we, you know, close, supposed to see the impression in the whites of your eyes. Im not sure im going to be able to make that kind of judgment from here with my sitely aging slightly aging eyes. I get the general direction, the small at that point, if it turns to grimace well know, but its great to have you here and i appreciate it. The opportunity we had last friday to spend some quality time together. Unfortunately, as the chairmans already noted, i once again must note that these are unprecedented times. America faces a challenge to our lives and security that weve not had in over half a century. And its during such trying times that we all recognize the value of nonpartisan expertise throughout our government. Nowhere is this clearer than in the apolitical Intelligence Community. The ic collects intelligence on imminent and pro potential threats and analyzes them and best estimates without fear or favor to our nations leaders. This is essential so the policy makers can craft a timely and Effective Response to protect america. And nowhere is the need for competent, apolitical leadership clearer than in the position of the director of National Intelligence, who stands at the head of the nations 17 intelligence agencies. Unfortunately, what weve seen from the president ever since he came into office, is an unrelenting, and i believe undeserved attack upon our professional women and men of our intelligence agencies. This is not because our Intelligence Community is deserving of these attacks, nor are they at the heart of some, quote, unquote, deep state conspiracy to undermine our political leaders. No, i believe the president attacks our intelligence agencies for one simple reason, because unvarnished truth and unembellished analysis are not welcomed in this white house. What weve seen over the last year has been especially dangerous. The systemic firing of anyone at the odni who has the termerity to speak truth to power. From dni, dan coates, and Principal Deputy sue gordon to acting dni, joe mcguire. To acting director of counterterrorism russ traffic versus, to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community michael adkinson. These firings forced depar tours from the community has left odni without a single Senate Confirmed leader at the helm. Instead, an acting dni, with no experience in intelligence, but with plenty of political loyalty to the president , has been appointed to oversee americas intelligence enterprise. As acting dni, this individual promptly instituted a hiring freeze and a reorganization whose purpose has not been communicated to the intelligence Oversight Committees. He also quickly fired Senior Leaders with decades of experience in the ic. Alarmingly weve begun to hear reports that professionals have been pressured to limit the information they share with congress. And now, mr. Ratcliffe, the president has nominated you to this critical position of National Security and intelligence leadership. I have to say that while im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt during this hearing, i dont see what has changed since last summer when the president decided not to proceed with your nomination over concerns about your inexperience, partisanship and past statements that seemed to embellish your record. This includes some particularly damaging remarks about whistling blowers which has long been bipartisan on this committee. Ill speak plainly, i still have some of the doubts now as i had back in august. Some have suggested that your main qualification for confirmation to this post is that youre not ambassador grinnell, and frankly, thats not enough. Before we put the senates stamp of approval and put a nominee to this critical position, the senators must demand the qualities that the senate specified when it passed the low creating the odni after 9 11, legislation which my colleagues like senator collins helped author. We must expect and demand professionalism, a nonpartisan commitment to the truth and a rock solid dedication to defending those who defend us every day. The professional women and men of our nations Intelligence Committees. I hope that today we can get a sense of your ability to adhere to that requirement. I look forward to the questioning and look forward to this opportunity. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you, vicechairman. Former attorney general John Ashcroft was planned, scheduled to be here to introduce representative ratcliffe. Given the current circumstances, he could not attend. He sent us his remarks and the senator has kindly agreed to represent attorney general ashcroft today. The floor is yours. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its always good to be with my colleagues on the Senate Select committee on intelligence and today, its my pleasure to introduce John Ratcliffe whos the nominee for the director of National Intelligence. As the chairman said, we do have a letter from the former attorney general and its rather lengthily, im not going to read all of it, but i will refer to excerpts, but i ask for consent that it be made part of the record following my remarks. The reason i think its so important for the committee and the senate to hear from former attorney general ratcliffe excuse me, former attorney general ashcroft is because of his intimate knowledge of the qualifications of the nominee, as well as the personal credentials, integrity. Let me start by reading an excerpt from attorney general ashcrofts letter. He said integrity is the indispensible for the best friend of National Security. National security is the cingular portfolio most allergic that develops from distortion and sound intelligence must never be contaminated by personal bias or political predisposition. General ashcroft goes on to say ive known and worked with john for more than a decade and i know of no person, no person with a higher commitment to integrity and ive seen him speak the unvarnished truth for those he works with and works for, whether senior government officials or corporate ceos. He makes the important point and he did in my conversation with him yesterday in his farm in missouri, he makes the point that over the last 15 years congressman ratcliffe has served in crucial roles as both a developer and consumer of intelligence, a role that i think speaks to his background and qualifications for the job. Finally, he said John Ratcliffe is committed to forging an Intelligence Committee that offers the most insightful intelligence and counterintelligence possible. He will serve with transparent precision that enables them to defend our nation from threats and keep our citizens and nation free. Mr. Chairman, i know that coming to this nomination as a member of congress, that congressman ratcliffe, as any member of congress might, people wonder, does he really understand the difference between being in the adversarial atmosphere and that is congress and that especially speaks to our oversight responsibilities. As somebody who has had the privilege of serving in all three branches of government, both as a judge, as attorney general of texas and now at a legislator, i can tell you that John Ratcliffe has the intelligence to be able to understand the difference between being a legislator and being the director of National Intelligence. These are simply different roles to be played while discharging our government responsibilities. So i think thats something you might want to ask him more about, something i hope he will address, but ive known john personally from 10 years and im proud to support his nomination and to give you my strongest personal recommendation. The chairman has mentioned his experience on the house intelligence and Judiciary Committees, as well as the ethics committee. I do believe that as a former u. S. Attorney he does understand and is a current member of the house Intelligence Committee, he does understand the vast threats our country is facing and the challenges that we face which lie ahead. We need to be able to count on a leader to operate free of personal or political motivation, serving only with the security and safety of the American People in mind. And i believe John Ratcliffe is the person to do that job. Hes prepared to continue the legacy of outstanding leadership. Weve come to expect, and count on from the dni, and i have confidence in his ability to serve as a steadfast leader and advocate for the intelligence professionals of the ic. And the trusted partner with this committee. So mr. Chairman, Ranking Member warner, i appreciate your careful consideration of my friend and fellow texan, John Ratcliffe and appreciate the opportunity to introduce him today. Thank you very much. Senator cornyn, thank you for that introduction. With that, congressman ratcliffe if you would rise and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to give the committee the truth, the full truth and nothing, but the truth so help you god . I do. Please be seated. Before we move to your stateme statement, ill ask you five standard questions the committee poses to each nominee who appears before us. They just quire a simple yes or no answer. One, do you agree to appear before the committee here and in other venues when invited . Yes. If confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the committee and designated safe when invited . Yes. Do you agree to provide documents or any other materials asked by the committee in order for it to carry out its oversight and the legislative responsibilities . Yes. Will you ensure that your office and staff provide such materials to the committee when requested. Yes. And five, do you agree to inform and fully brief the committee to the fullest extent possible. All members of the committee of the intelligence activity and covert action rather than only the chair and the vice chair. Yes. I want to thank you very much. Its my intention to move to a Committee Vote on this nominee as soon as possible. Therefore, for planning purposes, any member who wishes to submit questions for the record after todays hearing, please do so quickly. Well now proceed to your Opening Statement after which ill recognize members by seniority for five members as discussed earlier, members will have the opportunity to ask followup questions in the blocks that are designated. So let me say for the purposes of members, we have 30 minute blocks. There is time allotted in the block for additional questions and there is not time for five minutes of additional questions and i will state for members, as the vicechairman and i have talked. At the end of 30 minutes regardless ever where we are in the block with those senators, i will cut it off because weve got a dead stop for the room at 12 00. So i thank every member for their accommodations. With that congressman ratcliffe, the floor is yours. Chairman burr, vicechairman warn warner, im honored to appear as the president s nominee for the director of National Intelligence. And commend my staff, the office of director of National Intelligence to help get us here today. I appreciate their dedication. And id like to share thoughts on the challenging times we face today. The covid19 pandemic cut the lives short of over 60,000 americans and impacted each and every one of us. And my sympathies to those weve lost and the efforts of those on the front line, including the professionals reporting for duty and carrying out their mission. These are truly trying times and your courage, honor and sacrifice will not be forgotten. Id like to begin for thanking President Trump for his Incredible Opportunity for me to serve our nation and for his confidence in me. Id like to thank former u. S. Attorney general John Ashcroft for his gracious and humbling statement. I am forever grateful for your faith in me. I also want to recognize and thank senator cornyn for his kind words and for my fellow if he cansens text a texansa. Id like to thank my amazing wife michelle and truly wonderful daughters, my mom kathy and five brothers and sisters, kitty, bob, sharon, pam, and larry. Watching from above, im sure, is my late dad, robert ratcliffe. My career in Public Service is a direct reflection of my familys selflessness, their sacrifice, their enduring love of country and for me, i simply dont have the words to adequately express my gratitude. My journey here today has been a mixture of Public Service and private sector experience. I graduated college at eight 20, law school at 23. Tried my first case at 24. A decade later, managing partner by my own law firm and my most measures, i was successful, but something was missing. As the son of two Public School teachers, i was taught from an early age the virtues of Public Service and selfsacrifice and reflecting back, i realize it was those values that pushed me to a higher calling. One of service to the American People. The catalyst for me came on september 11th, 2001 when the first plane struck, i was sitting on the 35th floor of a High Rise Office building in dallas, texas that looked a whole lot like the ones under attack and watched so Many Americans give their lives in that terrible day and during months that volume i watched many more sacrifice so much to defend the United States and it inspired me to take stock of the gifts i have been given and what i might contribute to the defense of this great nation. Within a few years i changed careers altogether and left to civil law practice behind to become a federal prosecutor. And during my years in texas, served as chief of terrorism, and first u. S. Assistant attorney and finally direct attorney general. Prosecuting related matters, domestic and international terrorism. Drug and human trafficking, transnational crime and illegal immigration among others. I led and managed the joint activities and worked with justice officials and fbi and overriding priority of the department of justice. In these roles, i came to appreciate the value of coordinated interagency efforts and the importance of timely, accurate and objective intelligence in keeping americans safe. For the past six years ive been fortunate to serve with you all here in congress and ive continued to prioritize National Security, seeking assignments on the homeland, judiciary and Homeland Security committees although serving the citizens of 14th district of texas has been at honor of a lifetime, i believe my passion, my experience and judgment makes me the right person to lead. And if confirmed at dni, my top priority will be to present the president , Center Policy makers and this committee with objective timely intelligence to better informed decisions about the future and the safety of our great nation. As the president s principal intelligence advisor i would ensure that all intelligence is collected analyzed and reported without bias, prejudice or political influence. I see the director of National Intelligence as more than just a leader, a manager, an integrator. The dni must be an arrow catcher, a problem solver, an obstacle for the ic, the rresolving conflicts and resources in the right place and the right time and defend and advocate for the ic and its people. Altered as a result of outside influence. Above all, my fidelity and loyalty will always be with the constitution and the rule of law, my actions at dni will reflect that commitment. Many of you have asked me what i see as the greatest threat facing our nation. The rally is the Threat Landscape today is diverse, dynamic and geographically diffuse more so than ever before. I believe the immediate focus of the ic must be directed to the geopolitical and Economic Impact of the coronavirus pandemic, as well as its origins. The American People deserve answers, and if confirmed i pledged that the ic will remain laser focused on providing them. We face entering charges on other fronts as well. These include china, from the race to 5g, to preventing cyber espionage. Rush and his continued efforts to undermine our democracy by interfering in free and fair elections, iran and its continued pursuit of nuclear capabilities, ballistic missiles, and sponsorship of terrorist groups. North korea and its continued possession of Nuclear Weapons and delivery systems. And transnational issues like cybersecurity, safeguarding our supply chains, and, of course, preventing terrorist attacks or a resurgence of ice is. This list is by no means exhaustive. To address the full spectrum of threats and thread actors, the ic must work continuously to earn the trust of the president , the congress and the American People. At its core the dni position is about leadership. If confirmed i hope to be a stabilizing force to build trust and break down barriers to information sharing as warranted in order to sharpen the analytic work of the Intelligence Community. For me, the odni remains the office best positioned to lead integration of the Intelligence Community. We can never underestimate the t a truly integrated intelligence operations or analysis or assume that agencies would do so on their own without strong leadership from above. That said, i believe every Government Agency must constantly review its operations to ensure it is setting the right priorities, cheating Mission Objectives and spending taxpayer dollars effectively and efficiently. If confirmed, i will work with ic leaders to assess what is working well and where we need to make adjustments to make the community more effective, efficient, and resilient. In closing, to remain the worlds premier intelligence enterprise, the ic must continue to recruit and retain the best, brightest, and most Diverse Workforce our nation has to offer. The men and women of the ic or dedicated Civil Servants who rarely, if ever, receive the full recognition of their sacrifice to country, and dedication to the mission of keeping americans safe, secure, and free. At dni there would be no greater champion of their hard work and dedication to this country than me. Im honored by the opportunity to be here with you today, and i thank you for your consideration of my nomination during these difficult times. I look for to answering your questions. Thank you for those remarks. We will go into the first block of time consumed by the chair, vice chair, senator risch, senator feinstein and senator rubio. Members will have up to five minutes. Ill try to bank some time. Several questions. When youre confirmed to be dni ulee walking into an organization thats been led for quite some time acting officials. Place the position for which you been nominated but also more recently to the Inspector Generals office. Independence and a dual to speak truth to power are critical in both offices. Can you speak to your views of the boards of the intelligence communities Inspector General and your expectations of what the office, of that office as dni . Senator, thank you for the question. You made reference to acting officials. I have been an acting officials for coup detat. I was acting u. S. Attorney an appreciation for why Senate Confirmed leadership does make a difference and is important and appreciate this committee considering the in that regard. I also appreciate the comments you have made as has vice chairman warner about speaking truth to power. And i very much intend to do that if confirmed as dni. With regard to the Inspector General position, i have a strong record of supporting and defending and working with Inspector General. For example, i have publicly defended Inspector General Michael Horowitz even when some of my colleagues have criticized his work and even when i disagreed with some of his opinions. But i understand the role and the importance of the Inspector General because there will always be misconduct, waste, fraud, and abuse when you have government. I am very committed, if confirmed, as dni to working with Inspector General to make sure that the Intelligence Community has that type of process in place to ensure that the Intelligence Community is always acting in the best interest of the American People. Over the course of the last three years this committee has issued four reports about russias meddling in our elections coming russias intrusions in the state election system, the use of social media to attempt to influence the election and most recently confirming the findings of the 2017 Intelligence Community assessment. While being mindful of the fact that were in an unclassified setting, what are your views on russias meddling in our elections . Chairman, my views are that russia meddled in or interfered with acting measure in 2016. They interviewed interviewed in 2016 and they will tend to do so in 2018. They have a goal of sowing discord and they have been successful in sowing discord. Fortunately, based on the work, the good work of this committee, we know that they may have been successful in that regard but theyve not been successful in changing votes for the outcome of any election. The Intelligence Community as you know place a vital role in ensuring that were safe, secure and Credible Elections, and that every vote cast by every american is done so properly and counted properly. When you commit to bring information about threats to the election infrastructure and about foreign governments efforts to influence elections to congress so we are fully and currently informed . I will. When to testify at this committees annual worldwide threats hearing . I will. Last question, i mentioned over the past three years with issued four reports. Number five is finished. Number five will go for declassification. Do we have your commitment as a dni that you would expeditiously go to the declassification process . You do. Senator warren. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You actually took some of my questions. My eyesight is good. Mr. Ratcliffe, good to see you and i appreciated our time last friday. I want to follow up on a couple of the chapmans questions first. As we discussed, we are volume five, and so far our first four volumes have all been unanimous or i think bigwig exception of one dissenting vote, you know, if we get this document to the odni, we need your commitment not only that we do it expeditiously but as much as possible to get that volume five reviewed, redacted and released ideally before the august recess. I know youve not seen the report yet. All i would ask is aspirationally that you commit to the goal because i think as we discussed to have a document that could be potentially significant, and its of the president ial campaign isnt a good or fair on either side. If i could clarify little bit, recognizing youve not seen the document, its 1000 pages that that you try to get this cleared prior to august . Vice chairman, i will again commit that i will work with you to get that declassified as expeditiously as possible. Again our goal is to get it out before august. Again, following up on the germans comments, and we talked about this in person but i want to for the committee for the public record, youve indicated that you do believe that russia interfered. What this committees judgment was, particularly in on four but throughout all volumes was that not only did russia interfere but during their interference in 2016 had, they had a selected candidate they were four and a selected candidate they were against, or candidate trump against candidate clinton. Have you had a chance to review our documents and have you reached a similar conclusion, conclusion that actually reinforces the unanimous conclusion of the Intelligence Community assessment, or can you comment on our volume four . Yeah, senator, i very much appreciate the bipartisan approach in which this committee addressed that issue. I did have a chance to review volume four which i know confirms the icy assessment. I have no reason to dispute the committees findings. I will say that i have no reason to dispute the committee that i serve on, house Intelligence Committees finding finding which is a different perspective with regard to that one issue that you mentioned about a preference for a candidate. I was not on the committee at that time. I have not, i respect both committees but have not seen the underlying intelligence, why there is a difference of opinion between the two committees. But i can very much appreciate volume four and work this committee put in and again i would reiterate the most important take away from the findings of both committees is that as russia continues to sow discord, that theyve not been successful in changing votes or the outcome of election and we need to remain committed to making sure that that does not happen in the future. Respectfully to me, to make that kind of assessment and decide how were going to prevent russias further interference in 2020, if they have a clear preference for one candidate or another, over another that would also alter how we counter those efforts. I really hope youll spend the time and look at the underlying intelligence, if you find that you reach a conclusion that is different than the unanimous conclusion of the Intelligence Community or the unanimous conclusion of this year i would expect a brief on that and pointing out how you found our conclusions or the ic conclusions were in accurate, you will commit to come back to us if youve reached the different conclusion once you have reviewed that underlying intelligence. I will. One of the things we also discussed, an area of the community that seems under assault with the acting odni, and that is the Election Security unit. Theres obviously different parts of the ic here the nsa has a group. The cia has a group but one of the most important is the group that is stood up, where stood up by director coats, and includes intelligence professionals like shelby pearson. They have briefed us on a regular basis i would like your commitment that since we are literally less than six months away from this years president ial elections, that you will not take any efforts to dismantle the current leadership of the Election Security unit or the current capabilities of the Election Security unit this close to the 2020 election. Senator, i have no intention making changes in that regard. And that unit, sure they have that is relevant and appropriate for this committees responsibility, that that unit will be able to continue on a regular basis to brief this committee. Senator, i want to make sure that im clear throughout the day that if confirmed as the night and a look at the global Threat Landscape, i mentioned the Global Pandemic and the ics rolled with respect to that. But the other immediate concern is, safe, secure preble election and i will make it my highest priority to confirm to do Everything Possible that we have those safe, secure, Credible Elections in 2020. But its important again that group who has breached this made under reagan basis continues to have that ability to brief. And again, echoing what the chairman has said, i dont know whether our clocks they are not running. Will you give me a high sign . Youre done. Did i get my five minutes . Let me last question then. You know, should you be confirmed, we are already passed due date on when we would have the traditional worldwide threat hearing. You have committed to the chairman that you would hold of that hearing. My hope would be that that commitment would take place within 60 days of you being confirmed. Senator, make a commitment to, i look forward if confirmed to appearing as a dni in a worldwide threat steering. I dont want to make a commitment in terms of time that i dont know what i am promising exactly. What i will make the commitment is that if confirmed, i agree that its important and i will work to make that happen as expeditiously as possible. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Congressman ratcliffe has been incredibly generous with his time with me. Ive had an opportunity to spend some time with him. I have all the questions that i need answered from him already. Indeed, most of them are available for discussion in open setting like this, but in the interest of keeping you on time and on schedule, im going to yield back my time since i do have answers to my questions. So thank you. I think you, senator risch. With that, senator feinstein. Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Congressman, welcome. Id like to ask you a couple of questions about whistleblowers, if i might. This committee is adhered to a tradition of protecting whistleblowers. However, its my understanding that your participation in president s Trumps Campaign to punish and discredit one ic whistleblower suggests you do not align yourself with his bipartisan approach. Let me give you an example. During a december 11 hearing of the House Committee on the Judiciary Committee you claimed without any evidence that the whistleblower got caught making a false statement here on december 12, you tweeted that the whistleblower didnt tell the truth both verbally and in writing. You also attacked staff for providing guidance to potential whistleblowers on how to lawfully make a disclosure. Heres the question. If you are confirmed, do you believe that your past remarks concerning the ukraine whistleblower will discourage ic whistleblowers from exercising their rights, consistent with the law to make protected disclosures . Senator, thanks for the question. I want to make it very clear, if confirmed as dni, every whistleblower, past, present, and future will enjoy every protection under the law. I do want to relitigate old issues of what happened during the impeachment inquiry. My issue was not with the whistleblower. My issue was with what i perceived as an lack of due process in the house process. Again i do want to relitigate the issues i leave it at that. But every whistleblower can expect full protection under the law. Whistleblowers are so important. A whistleblower in doctor in china is one of the reasons we got an earlier warning. So i make that commitment to you, senator. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. On the evening of april 3, President Trump announced that he was firing mr. Atkinson because he had sought to transmit to congress a credible whistleblower complaint of urgent concern, one that was required by law to be transmitted to congress. Do you share the belief of members of this committee and the senate that mr. Atkinson was improperly fired, despite the fact that as acting director maguire said he did everything by the book and followed the law . I appreciate the question and i think before the room i talked about my history in strong support of working with Inspector General. I talked about Inspector General borowitz who was someone i went to when i thought there was a problem with the misuse of intelligence authorities, and very much appreciated his approach and work and some of the concerns i raised presented, were present in his findings in his report. With respect to Inspector General atkinson and the situation that you described, i dont have enough information to answer your question. And if i can explain why. I will tell you that my dealings with Inspector General atkinson, i had no issues. I think he did what he thought was right. I think he did think he was following the law here the flip side to that is that the legal opinion within the odni from the general counsel and from the department of justice, office of Legal Counsel, my reading of it is that their determination was that he may have exceeded his authority because the investigation involve issues that were not intelligence activities or Intelligence Community employees. Thats a legal question that i dont know the answer to. Again, i very much want to reiterate that if confirmed, how important Inspector General are in government, and my strong history of working with them. And i understand although hes an acting capacity Inspector General tom is in that role. I dont know him but hes a 30 year veteran, very well respected so i hope to have the opportunity to work with him. Thank you. I appreciate that answer. If confirmed, do you commit to directing all i see agencies to cooperate fully with congressional oversight requests regarding covid19 . And to probably produce the full membership and staff of the congressional Intelligence Committees, all intelligence requested by congress, regarding covid19 . Senator, thanks for the question and that is meant to be broad. It is and i appreciate the question here in my opening remarks, and i think reiterating in one of my responses, that the immediate concern that i have is getting answers from the American People to the Intelligence Community, if confirmed, the Intelligence Community will be laser focus on getting all of the answers that we can regarding how this happened, when this happened, and i commit to providing with as much transparency to you as the law will allow and with due regard for sources and methods that everything be provided as quickly as possible. Like you. Just a couple of questions quickly about hard targets. In your view, is of the ic dog enough to collect against hard targets like north korea . Senator, as you know the challenge with north korea is visibility. And i think my impression from the outside, like you as a member of an Oversight Committee of intelligence, is about we have very good collection. Im only caveat in it because if confirmed as dni i may have a different viewpoint or more information to look at. I would make it a priority. You know, i think collection obviously an analysis of intelligence is what makes this the greatest intelligence enterprise in the world, and i will commit that if we are not doing enough, senator, i will make it a high priority to improve in the standards that we may need to employ. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations on your nomination. I think thats you. With the television i cant see that far away. Weve gotten to know each other a a bit over the years, not in the setting of intelligence but through mutual friends. I just kind of want to ask you a very simple and straightforward question. You have an accomplished career. You are by standards in a seat considered by the cook report as a safe district. You seem to be enjoying your work. Why are you doing this . I dont mean that in a negative way. Obviously you have exposed yourself to criticism in the climate today and politics is pretty intense. I think the most fundamental question is why, why is this a job you are willing to step forward and do at this time . Senator, i appreciate the question and i appreciated the time weve had to get to know each other when you have come over to the lower house to visit with us. First of all, i think anytime the president asks you to do something for your country ought to consider. If theres a way to salute smartly and say yes. But be on that jeff to want this job, and at the same reason in my opening i talked about leaving a successful law practice to make a fraction of that to be a federal prosecutor, that the mission is to important and what the Intelligence Community means, how it has position the United States as the world superpower at a think everyone knows that the relationship between the Intelligence Community, congress, the president and across the board right now is something that is at issue. Weve got intelligence authorities and their uses been questioned. I realize its sort of a difficult time but dni, again, the core responsibility is leadership. Its easy to raise your hand when things are going purply. Its harder to reach her hand when they are not, and the mission is to import of keeping americans safe, and the opportunity to lead is something that a want to do. And i guess i will say this. Its been the privilege of my life to serve as a member of congress, but the best job i ever had was to be the United States attorney. What i loved about it was it was an apolitical position. I stood up always to represent the United States of america, never one party or another. And i very much view that as this role for the dni. I look forward to treating every member, republican and democrat, exactly the same way. And, frankly, being out of politics. I mean, thats an important question because ive heard some of the skepticism thats been raised is about experience and the experience needed to lead this intelligence enterprise. Its my duty actually pretty extensive experience both on the committee in the house, Homeland Security and intelligence and also in judiciary and in your work as a u. S. Attorney. What is it and what you have done over the last, during your career that you believe prepares you best for the role you now have of overseeing all of these different pillars of our intelligence and abilities . As was mentioned earlier i have now seen intelligence from three different vantage points, as an enduser and the developer, as a consumer of intelligence, and as an overseer of intelligence. And as far as experience, i started handling National Security issues like in 2005, and that included intelligence authorities. My first exposure with fisa was 2005, edit trying to respond to this committee we found that in at least one instance, the authority that ive used remained or the matters that a work on remained classified. So from an experience standpoint as far back as 2005 i have been using those authorities. But i think the role of u. S. Attorney in particular and my time as chief of antiterrorism for four years is particularly wellsuited and analogous to the dni. So as use turn turnout is runna federated enterprise, working across federal agencies, integrating, coordinating, sharing information and doing so in an apolitical way. And thats very much what the director of National Intelligence does. Integrates and coordinates across all 17 intelligence agencies, making the Community Better so they can make members of congress, the president and our policymakers better informed on National Security decisions. My time and cards as well, the committee ive been on legislating, creating National Security laws. I think ive got a broad, deep, and more than qualified level of experience when we talk about National Security issues. I also think ive got good judgment because ive identified when there are problems with use of intelligence authorities, and i spoke truth to power when they see it misuse. I enthusiastically support her nomination and i look forward to voting for you. Thank you. If any member currently has one additional question ill be happy to entertain them. If not, senator feinstein. If you have a quick one. [inaudible] if i could ask one question, something that i have followed, tried ive been very concerned by the gross of contractor of the last 20 plus use in the agencies, and when i was chairman of the committee we made a big push to ensure that all inherently government functions of the ic were performed by Government Employees and not contractors. Its my understanding that that effort continues today, and we made substantial progress over the two decades in this. What is your view on the appropriate use of contractors in the Intelligence Community . Senator, im not saying this because you are considering me for the position as a nominee, but i agree with every word you just said with regard to contractor used and how it should be limited to where Government Employees should be doing government functions. I know theres always a look in terms of ratios and the percentages here im not a onesizefitsall person. If confirmed as dni i will look at where things stand. Right now, but the concern that you have, the sentiment that you expressed, let me just reiterate that i agree with you completely and look forward to working with you on this issue, if confirmed. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator feinstein with that the first block of time is expired. That chair would move to the second block of time, and go somewhat out of order because senator wyden is not you. I will turn to senator collins for any questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Congressman, i appreciated the opportunity to talk with you last week as one of the authors along with former senator joe lieberman, of the 2004 law that created the director of National Intelligence position. I have a special interest in making sure that the leader of the Intelligence Community fulfills what we envisioned. In that regard, i appreciated the opportunity to review your background with you in depth to make sure that you met the statutory standard of having extensive National Security expertise. So today i want to turn to a different issue. As some members have already said today, the ability to speak truth to power is essential to serving as successful dni. Would you communicate the intelligence communities analytic views to the president , even if you knew that he would strongly disagree with them . Of course. Would you be willing to communicate the ics analytic conclusions to the president , even if you believe it would place your job in jeopardy . Of course. When, assuming your confirmation, when you participate in the next open worldwide threats hearing and you are asked to provide an unclassified ic assessment that you know that the president vehemently disagrees with, what would you do . Senator, whether youre talking about the president , whether youre talking about nancy pelosi, Mitch Mcconnell, anyones views of what the what the intelligence to be whenever in fact, the intelligence that i deliver. Never. Thank you for that strong response. I am nevertheless, going to ask you one more that has to do with the internal operations of the Intelligence Community. What would you do if the Intelligence Community was prepared to publish a president s daily brief that directly contradicted the white house is conclusion on an important issue like north korea . Which is still allow the pdb to be published . And the reason i ask this question is there are some very experienced analysts within the ic that are concerned that you might attempt to shade the conclusions in order to avoid alienating the president in presenting his daily brief. Senator, i think before you were in the room i reiterated multiple times that i wont shade intelligence for anyone, whether were talking about the president , members of congress, any policymakers. As far as published on the president s daily brief, you know, i guess im not sure the word published when you say, how you mean that. I shouldve used the word issued. So absolutely. I i just wanted to make sure because the president s daily brief is the president s daily brief. Right. And, what to that, to the larger question, again, as if i can reiterate as clearly as possible, it confirmed as dni one of the things that i make clear to everyone is that i will deliver the unvarnished truth. It wont be shaded for anyone. What anyone wants the intelligence to reflect wont impact the intelligence that i deliver. And finally, and i ask this question to you on the telephone but i want to ask it to you for the record. The president has said that the ic has run amok and needs to be reined in. Do you share the president s of you . I think what we talked about, senator, about a number of things in there. And im sure that when you get a lot of questions but what the president says what the president thinks, and to get i dont mean to be repetitive, but none of those things, regardless of what he says or how he says of him, or how nancy pelosi or Mitch Mcconnell or anyone says about the intelligence or the Intelligence Community will not impact the intelligence that i deliver. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Congressman, welcome. Thank you. Let me begin this way. Donald trump said last year the constitution says, and i quote here, i can do whatever i want as president. The attorney general has said the president does it have to follow the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and can conduct surveillance without a warrant. Those two statements are a direct threat to the Constitutional Rights of americans, and it makes the director of National Intelligence and last line of defense for our democracy. Do you believe the president can spy on americans outside the law . And i would spit is senator, i dont think anyone can spy on americans outside the law. So would you refuse to authorize the Intelligence Community to conduct warrantless surveillance . Senator, when you talk about you answered no. So im asking you to be clear, my answer is consistent, whatever the law is is what i will do ask him if confirmed as dni. Within my authorities i will act within my authorities the most important i will be guided by the constitution and the rule of law. So whatever authorities allow the Intelligence Community to do, all of our actions, if im the director, will be in compliance with what the law is. My time is short, congressman. The point is you really didnt say no in answer to my question. You said there may be circumstances. I happen to think that answer, that there may be circumstances, when the president can spy on americans outside the law is an exceptionally dangerous bit of testimony. Im going to move on. Can i just, so the record is clear, maybe ive misspoken. I want to be real clear that no one can spy or surveillance outside the law, and if confirmed as dni, one of my highest priorities will always be to make sure that the Intelligence Community is acting in accordance with the law some want to make that very clear, senator. Again, you are qualifying this based on circumstances, and thats what i think is dangerous point now, i also want to get into your views on whistleblowers. Now, it is open season on whistleblowers right now in washington, d. C. , and you gave a pleasant sounding statement about whistleblowers. So i want to be very specific if the Inspector General determines that a whistleblower complaint should be sent to congress, are you going to send over to the department of justice what the white house to get their permission . Any whistleblower complaint, if i confirmed as dni, is going to be handled in accordance with the law. You know, i dont know how i can be more clear than that. Oh, i think you could say unequivocally no. Because thats what i think is important. And what i want to know is whether theres some kind of veto power over where the Congress Hears from whistleblowers, and as with the previous question with respect to spying, you want to have it both ways. You want to try to portray yourself as a defender of the constitution and then you water it down with the specifics. Should the identity of whistleblowers ever under any circumstances be disclosed without the consent. Was no. Whistleblowers are entitled to anonymity. So what is your opinion of those who would call for the outing of ic whistleblowers . That whistleblowers are entitled to anonymity under the law, and if someone are you distinguishing between lawful whistleblowers or lawful whistleblower complaints . Again, im trying to get a a se of what you actually believe. If someone is a whistleblower under the law, they are entitled to the protections of a whistleblower statute under the law. Before you were in the room i heard the answer. One last question, i want to get it in. You in your written answers seem to think internet voting was okay. You gave a very qualified answer. I happen to think its the equivalent of putting our ballots on the streets of moscow. So could you tell me why you think internet voting is okay, given all the threats that we have seen to our democracy . I dont recall the response or how i responded, senator, but seems to me that that is a policy issue that if confirmed as dni, i would not be in the role of making policy. It wouldnt matter. Whatever the law is regarding we expect you to be a leader on Election Security. And if you support the kind of Snake Oil Salesman we have got in this country that are selling some of these online voting operations, youre going to put at risk our special system of government. I think my time is up, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Welcome, congressman. In your statement for the record, you wrote that quote the president and i have a good rapport. So if confirmed as dni, you said jeff my commitment to deliver accurate and objective intelligence, and speak truth to power. Dan coats, sue gordon, joe mcguire, other dedicated ic professionals had a good rapport with the the president as wello how they didnt. Can you give me some specific examples when youve had to speak truth to power, a particular if it is involved the president of United States . Sure. Senator, i appreciate the question. The reason i said a good rapport is i think trust is important. I think its one of the things that is important and can strengthen relationship between all parties, Intelligence Community, congress, the president. One of the reasons that i indicated before you in the room that i wanted this job was because it is a political. And i failed a political positions before. As u. S. Attorney, that is in a political role, and in those instances i frequently had to speak truth to power from the standpoint of, there were many locations where what people wae to exercise my discretion and away the considered something other than what the law was. Can you give a particular example . Oh, so when so is, you know, i do want to give examples that would give away specific case, but if someone was, for instance, a good republican or a good democrat and held a position and maybe deserves some special consideration, those kinds of things perk and in addition i think thats adequate. I did want to reclaim my time here for a moment. Last year the president defended nominating deal for the dni position stating that you do an incredible job and we need somebody like that in their peer we need somebody strong that can rein it in. Because as i think youve all learned, the intelligence agencies have run amok. What do you think he meant by that . I come i dont know. I saw the comment, senator. I made clear that again first of all, i have made clear as a just sit to you one of the reasons that of what disposition, ive made that without portraying any conversations. But that sentiment i expressed to the president , and he understands that, that i am looking forward to this position because its apolitical and the intelligence that i will deliver is unvarnished or do you think that the Intelligence Community or even a single has run amok . I have never said that. President trump has repeatedly and without any basis, in my view, accused the hardworking men and women of the ic of working to undermine his administration. Due you think, do you believe that there is a quoteunquote deep state in the ic . I dont know what that means. Senator collins and i talked about that in our culture i dont know what that is. So would you agree that would be inappropriate and a some context illegal to remove or reassign to screen or otherwise discriminate against career ic personnel for political reasons including on the basis of their work assignments in previous administrations . Yes. Mq. The president has publicly stated that he expects loyalty from his appointees, and the public withdrew your nomination appointed under the individual but then formally resubmitted your nomination. That sort of turn of events just raises some unique questions. During your conversations with the president regarding this position, what priorities did he communicate to you that he expected you to pursue on his behalf . And did the word loyalty ever come up . Senator, a couple of points there. I want to be real clear. My loyalty is to the constitution and the rule of law, and i made that very clear to everyone including the president. So you did discuss loyalty . No. I made clear that if i am in a position, my loyalty is always going to be to the constitution and rule of law. So you you made that proacty clear . You were not asked. Was yeah, i made that proactively clear. And you are not asked . I was not i absolutely was not asked. Thank you. The priorities, one of the priorities, again, i dont wat to get into specific conversations, but the sentiment is keeping politics out of the Intelligence Community. Its one of my priorities. And one thing to i guess because its been reported, i withdrew from consideration. I wasnt withdrawn, and so i just wanted the record to be clear with respect to that. Senator collins, you have one additional question you would like to ask . Chairman . Senator wyden, one additional question. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Congressman, the Congress Passed a law requiring an unclassified report on who was responsible for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. This is a law today, not a bill. It is a law. The dna, however, has outright refused to comply with this law, denying the public a single shred of information on this topic. Do you agree that the government is bound by this law and is obligated to provide this report, which stipulates in public, in public, who killed Jamal Khashoggi and under what circumstances . Senator, i share your concern. I think icing the same information that you have, and i think you are referring to the provision in the ndaa. And if confirmed as dni, again, i will ensure that, that the law is complied with. I realize that information i think in the report if were talking about the same thing, is a request for unclassified information. So if confirmed i want to look myself at the information to make sure that that information has been classified properly. But thats not the question. This is a law. This is a law, congressman. And consistently in every one of the areas that it asked you about with respect to spine, with respect to whistleblowers, now with respect to the law. These are pretty much straight forward yes or no questions, and now you have said you were look at what is classified with respect to the late mr. Khashoggi. We passed a law that resulted. It is supposed to be made available now. So i will look forward to your adding to the record on it, but i will tell you, you have certainly been briefed with respect to coming to this hearing, but on issue after issue ive asked pretty straightforward questions, and what i have gotten is a kind of let the sort of circle the subject and not answered. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Additional questions . Just one. As you know congress has not authorized organizational changes at odni. With that appropriated funds for that purpose, but acting director grinnell has been reorganizing odni. If confirmed, would you hold that reorganization in which you seek authorization from congress to reorganize if you found the need to do some . Senator, thanks for the question. If i can just first comment to senator wyden spoiled pickups hoping to make the point that im certainly not trying to be evasive but the position of being considered for is the president principal intelligence advisor, not as Legal Advisor and there is Legal Counsel that i would go to if i were confirmed as dni but center, appreciate the question about organizational changes. As you know im not so presumptuous as to know that im going to be confirmed so i havent considered or talked about any sort of organizational changes. I want to make clear that i expect to have unfettered discretion to make all personal decisions, if confirmed as dni. And i will make them in the best interest of the ic, to make the ic better. I will certainly as with everything, work with this committee to keep it fully and currently informed. I want everyone to sort of remember that i will be considered for this position, but i am one of you right now as a member of an Oversight Committee, and america functions better when its elected representatives are fully informed by the Intelligence Committee, and i intend to do that. With that i will bring to a close the block, the second block of members questions and we will move to the third block. Anybody who is asked questions is excuse, if you would like to leave. Let me remind members that when we conclude with us at 12 oclock we will reconvene in closed session at 2 00 in the Capital Senate security building, and we will again be operating with blocks of time, and it would be Conference Room there for anybody would like to sit, read intelligence products, listen to whats going on in a closed hearing and then come in for the question. Mech. With that i recognized senator blunt. Thank you kevin. Congressman ratcliffe, is good to have you. This job has gone they can for too long. Its a critically important job. Im glad you have been nominated. I have read with great interest the letter in the record that was given to us from former attorney general ashcroft picky spend a good friend of mine for a long time. I trust his judgment. I know you worked with him as u. S. Attorney, and also in a law firm that was formed after you both left the justice department, and his view of you which he shared with me personally as well as in this letter is significant. We had a chance to visit about your work on the house Intelligence Committee, and i particularly appreciated your last comment about the importance of being fully open and an Oversight Committee like this one being fully informed. I would say that when we stood up this structure after 9 11, i certainly anticipated a much smaller coordinating opportunity, rather than the bureaucratic size that we see today. I hope when you have a chance to look at this that you look carefully of whether or not the structure, as it is grown, has really served the principal purpose of coordinating information, or if in some way and may have created yet one more stovepipe of information. I would like you to comment on your views made has a house intel member of just the size of the night itself and fsis is when you think is too big, too small, or just write. Senator, thank you for the remarks and association with former attorney general John Ashcroft who is a great american, and but i, like you, come into this position, if confirmed, with some preconceived impression based on discussions i have had on the Oversight Committee. As senator collins leaves of the room, i want to make sure, one of the goals of the dni, if confirmed, is to make sure that the odni and the dni position are working exactly like senator collins and those who stood it up intended it. So i had a chance to visit with her about it. Like you, i come in with a perspective that you have conversations that may be indicate there is too much bureaucracy and theres too much redundancy. Some redundancy is good but if there 17 agencies, they dont need to be doing the same thing 17 times are purchasing the same things. And so it will be one of my immediate priorities to assess how the odni is functioning. Again, the goal of the odni is to make the ic better so that the ic can make you better come and the president better and policymakers better. And so i do think that i wanted to be as efficient as possible but ill be thoughtful and talk with heads of intelligence agencies and elements to find out where the bank that some of these things may just be unnecessary redundancies and address those. You know, i think another question to ask, and you dont have to comment on this, but for you to ask is, this agency has grown, have let the other agencies not have the attention or the staff they needed as the whole university of intelligence can use intelligence has grown, so much of it has grown at this point that was to be the central clearinghouse, the agency that coordinated information to be sure nobody was left out. And i would look at that. During the 19 years that we, the last 19 years, we very much have been focused on violent terrorist, extremists as the focus of so much of our intelligence efforts. Certainly that threat has not gone away, but its also equally as certain that Great Power Competition has emerged in ways that we would not have anticipated even a handful of years ago. Talk a little bit about rebalancing the resources you have to continue to keep an eye on the threats that we are so focused on for almost two decades now but also to rebalance the end of the Great Power Competition that we see as a significant challenge for us today. Senator, a a great questiond i appreciate you asking because we are going to leave the senate Intelligence Committee hearing here in order to fulfill our longtime commitment to bringing you live gavel to gavel coverage of the u. S. Senate. You can continue watching this hearing online at cspan. Org. And now live to
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