We are featuring a conversation with cyntoia brownlong. I want to thank molly gold. She was also instrumental in developing the program for her visit and for tonights event. Thank you molly. [applause]. I want to take all of my colleagues for the work on this forum and some the other events throughout the year. I like to a mile acknowledge acknowledged more than a dozen cosponsors. I hope you saw them recognized on the screen before we started. It is gratifying that some the organizations from across the University University joined us to support this event. Staff. We understand these are we understand these are challenging topics that are difficult topics. Others are will prepared and committed to dealing with these issues. As you saw an introductory in the introductory video we are celebrating the 20th anniversary. Tish was founded in 2000. Our mission then and now is to ensure that all students across all schools and academic disciplines acquire the knowledge in the skills in the values of to become leaders in problem solvers i in their communities near and far. Tish college began with a single Student Program now known as the tish scholar. Today we offer in support dozens of initiatives in and out of the classroom. We are home to a nationally recognized Research Center that studies youth voting, Civic Education and other aspects of democratic life. Our Community Partnership has evolved and expanded to encompass more communities and broader impact. It began seven years ago with a visit by senator elizabeth warren. Its a bit of irony today. Other tish College Events we were honored to host her here. But today other events had grown to match the scope of our work. Yesterday we hosted a lunch about the black power movement. T political strategist. And other leaders whose work will inform our viewssc and challenge some of our beliefs. With this diversity of speakers we want to hide lighthk in different ways by which they can issue those things. Tonights guest per fine personifies that idea. Far outside the halls of power all of us can learn from our lived experiences and use them to become a force for change. Change. Cyntoia brownlong is an author activist for criminal Justice Reform and victims of Human Trafficking and she was born to a young mother who struggled with alcohol a she was born to a young mother who struggled with alcohol abuse and who is a victim off trafficking. As a teenager she became a victim of trafficking herself. And at 16 she was arrested for killing a man who solicited her. She was tried as an adolescent adult and sentenced to life in prison without parole. Her trafficker was never arrested. In prison she have the profound transformation. It a chronicled experiences and as a result many celebrities begin advocating on her behalf. The hashtag free cynotoia went viral. And children in american prisons she published a she published a memoir free centralia she wrote why she was incarcerated. Wa she and her husband has been found the foundation for justin come freedom and mercy. She was also a 2020 nominee for the naacp image award. Joining our guest on stage tonight is the tish College Senior fellow. I mentioned earlier that it has expanded the scope of the Educational Program this is one of the newerer initiatives that we are proud of. To award aten toward an associate agree to a group of incarcerated men in the program. They have also run an insight outside course at the maximum security prison in massachusetts through which tough children dash my to take a course together. The Current Research is in the field of Higher Education and incarceration. She is a senior lecturer. With a phd in english and she directs the program in womens, gender and sexuality studies. She is a strong advocate for the importance of bringing Higher Education into prison and we are grateful that she joins us tonight in conversation with our guests. Please join me in welcoming hillary and our distinguished speaker cyntoia brownlong. [applause]. I want to start by thanking you again it is such an honor to be here with you in such honor to have you here and some first and have the first of many. Hillary i also want to thank you for your beautiful book and sharing your journey with us and educating us on his use of criminal justice system. In your particular journey and on face. I i think for people who had it maybe yet read since we his book i want to start by acknowledging how recently you are free. In august at 3 18 in the morning. Im wondering if you want to share a first that you get to experience. How was that. Cyntoia at 318 in the morning, great. Hillary said before we Start Talking about your story i wanted to ask you if you can reflect on what its been like telling your story. I can only imagine going over some of the really difficult details can be hard where maybe also very helpful noise. Cyntoia definitely been a blessing to be able to sit and talk about my story. Coming from my background, phone a lot of us dont have a voice. Our experiences, they dont count. Sitting have the opportunity to sit and talk about that is incredible. And tell everyone, my testimony and what god did for me each and every time its just a blessing. Hilary you talk about one point in your book about your trials and being kind of a battle, narrative of a not really about telling the truth. But he was telling the better story. I wonder if there is a way that you getting that kino kind of final word here shipping your story. Cyntoia ive come to find that out. A lot of times when youre in the court system you think that i just explain this and let them know what happened, this will is what will take place. I just present this case law, to this court they will rule my favor. But that is not what happened. What happened was whoever has the best narrative, whoever can put in the best performance in the courtroom, that is who wins. Nine times out of ten it will be the prosecution. So that was a very hard hurdle to overcome. Select said, i serve a god who always has life. Hilary one of the things that you do so powerfully in the book is convey the sense of yourself as a child particularly in the early part of the book. And as a teenager, and someone who was left was living in searching for love and independence just like all teenagers do. As a job. Can you also talk about ways that he repeatedly were victimized and how long it took you, i think until 2017, ten years into your sentence, he had not really identified for your experience work as victimization. And as trafficking of the victim. Rather than the teen prostitute that the media was presenting use that as. If you can talk about why you think it took so long. For you and so many women i imagine experience that horrible reality. He was in the same, about people of had their childhood taken away from them. Cyntoia i dont think we know the mainspring for me, i had several adults who i was ron who put me in this position. I had grown women were teaching me that my body was a commodity. It was a means to get something for men and is completely unacceptable. And to expect in return for my companionship for something of that nature. An evolved around pleasing a man. I was 13 years old. That is really what started me on my trajectory to be more vulnerable to being exploited. I was told to be or these things were normal. So my world had be reshaped. This is how relationships work between men and girls. I was a little girl not a woman. But thats how the skills so that by the time met a man who convinced me that we were in a relationship, meant that i would go out and have with men for money and bring it back to him. I thought that was normal. In society that i was in at that point, do not call me a trafficking. I was called teen prostitute. These were my choices made of my own and there was never any conversation about the adult that it taught me these things the world view that have been skewed to do these things and not from the people i was around, not from the court system. A long time for that understanding just might really have a lot of work now still. I cannot tell you just how many times i was told that i was bad. And that i was just hot instead of, the fact that i was a child. And i was being misled. Hilary the media trail of his early years and willing incarceration, was pretty horrific. Given since how the media might handle this situation better. It sounds like you do. But healthy or have things gotten better the last 15 years or so for ten years. You think. Cyntoia my particular case, they have definitely shifted. When i first was arrested, was painted as a monster. The media referred to me as a teen prostitute. And i think it was a dangerous individual and obviously now things have changed. Some idiot refers to in some cases about child prostitution, and its sexual exploitation. It is changing but there is still work that needs to be done. In terms of the criminal justice aspect of it. I dont see much has changed. Me personally, it is change for think a lot of times young kids, the pictures are posted up on the news and they are painted as is horrible individual. Maybe some of the circumstances that they may have been involved in at the time, its a rush to judgment. I think that is unfortunate. We limit country where we are supposed to be innocent until we are proven guilty. Hilary im not sure any of us expected but in theory, one is incarcerated or entered into the system and the rehabilitation begins. Cyntoia sounds good. Hilary it was wondering if you could talk about the reality. In the traumatizing effect of getting caught in the web of the system and whether there are specific ways and how that impacted your self and your ethic and to see. Cyntoia the reality was that from the time that we set foot into the facility, we were treated as we are there to be warehoused. When a nurse embedded strict control, roles everything a day. The only time our rehabilitation was an issue, was when there was a federal grant at stake some kind of funding that was going to human but as part of receiving the funding there had to be certain programs in place. Even then, is how much was ever necessary to get by and to comply with whatever standards that they had set for that grant. We definitely need to work more on treating people from the time they walk into the door as we need to be focused on how we get them to the other side of this. And to become the best self. What can we do to make sure that this person has a successful reentry into society. Hilary as we talk about the processes going through the multiple trials in preparation for various trials, you also described you are working with light red to was really on your side and try to help splitting and in that case, did not want you to tell your story and was essentially silencing you. That really struck me is not really personal, is something systemic about entering the system and been kind of obliterated. Cyntoia the entire nature of the court proceedings, trial proceedings, so adversarial and its all about strategy and its all about this is what they have and this is how were going to spend it. Yes, i understand that this is what the truth is and this is whats happened. George is going to go with this. And doesnt always happen with the defendant, happens a lot with the victims pretty soon of victims who both of the process and at the end they think they are going to get some sort of closure, some sense of vengeance and theyre left with the defendant in the game. There is no real restoration, note the building of what has been done. Hilary just so much, your stories thriving against all odds pretty can you turn to some of the more positive things that happened once you were in the system. Specifically thinking about your college experience. I was telling you earlier, very moving for me and i think many of us on involved in that work is tough. To hear you talk about with the role in the University Program was in your life. Can you share some of that in the students with the rules and the students will they like. Cyntoia absolutely. Those inside out program. Hilary you are working with a lot of university students. Cyntoia is part of their salt. Which is serving and learning together. So does the Program Initiative and i was four years and to starting my sentence when the opportunity presented itself to be part of the program. And to jump through a lot of hurdles. Im so glad that in it. I was expecting the bible further my education and get something that will look good like a before the court and before the governor and really looks good on paper but once i got into the class, what i realized as i had been into another community. I was in a place that all throughout my early life in public school, my own community, and always been made to feel that because of things that i had through, because of things that i had done, i was just written off. I was no good. The court process, just amplified that some for me to just be welcomed into this community of people they didnt see any of that. They just on me. They loved me. That was redeeming beyond anything that experience. They saw something in me that was was worth salvaging and investing in. It helped me to believe in myself and i started excelling in everything that i put my mind to. I ended up getting a fourpoint oh every single class. [applause]. Four. Oh. All away. [applause]. And prior to be in the program, the highest level of education was seventh grade. Hilary what you think the students, he talked about being accepted for those interactions like. I dont know if theres a specific example of a moment when they treated you a certain way. So the university itself. Cyntoia a lot of affluent people send their children there. [laughter]. Lot of these kids compared very privileged backgrounds. Although they were the same age as me, they were completely different from my own. You go into it thinking youre going to expect one thing but what i found was we had more in common than i had ever thought. It was really cool to be able to sit and have these conversations, tennessee that they were interested in learning how life was for my perspective. How can they be more respectful of that of my experience. How can they be more helpful of changing the prison system. And whenever they walked out of there, they left knowing that this could happen to me too. So those that much more invested try to change things. Hilary do you see as a result of that experience or you see a role without a new future. Cyntoia i thought about law school. When will i have time for it. Lets come out and speaking with people. I love education. It is very rewarding. Hilary you are educating and arguing already. I wanted to ask you also about the really powerful role as you quite in the booklet you are your adopted mom, in your life and in your journey. I wonder if you could talk about that. How was she part of it. Cyntoia so my mother adopted me when i was just eight months old. The only mother i had ever known. I always thought to really just giving the life of any mom would want to give a child. Even when i struggle, she was always there. Try to figure out how can i help. She would always ask me what to do. And obviously the gave her no answers that were helpful. But she tried. She tried very hard. And she was there. So when i was arrested, and it so that all of the people that i was hanging around and teaching me all of these things that now 16 yearold girl should never learn. They were nowhere to be found. The only person left standing was a mother. She been my best friend from that moment. She came to visit me every other week in prison and we are still close. Her and my husband, on the closest things to me. Hilary she got to know your husband before you got out i was very struck by but everything goes wrong in their life, their mother may not even know what about it. And you just at least at this point, and as you read the book, have such a loving relationship with your mom. There was very powerful moments when your talk about when he to the max and you were behind plexiglas and he felt not angry the guilty. I dont know. You were an incredible child and you are an incredible person. Cyntoia always. [laughter]. Went through a lot of those things, i think everybody in their fields like that. Your parents dont understand. I thought my mom was ancient. She could not understand what life in school was like for me when i told her things that i was going through. I felt like she was really not listening to what i was saying. Soy started keeping things from her. She really couldnt be there is always needed to be. That positive role model in my life. So i spent time in my life pushing her away. But as a time when is there sitting in jail, and indent everything under the sun to try to push my self for their way for my mother but there she was Still Standing and she was the one who was there for me. And that made me realize that, well, i have this wrong. Hilary is it fair to say that not all women serving time have a person like that in their life. Cyntoia that is very fair. A lot of people in prison, they do have any family, or children, it is very hard to maintain a relationship. You pretty much have a relationship over a paid phone call when you can afford it. It is very hard to parent or play a role in your family over telephone friday thats a lot of peoples experience. It very hard for a lot of families to be able to afford to do you can drive up to the prison. If you dont get hassled and somehow future visitations, the restricted by the administration so there are a lot of barriers. And they serve to break up families when it comes to the prison system. Many women do not have that, and especially as long as my mom there for me. Hilary decreasing number of visitors. I was wondering if you would share a little bit, i will say just working in prison for the last seven years or so, has brought me to question like nothing else in life up to this point and know that has been in normas part of your journey. And i wonder if you could talk about the role of faith in your journey. Cyntoia toy speaking with a group of students earlier and i was asked that same question. Psychical them, faith is the only reason that i am sitting here with yall today. Ive tried everything one is trying to get out of prison. But my faith and my attorneys. Very experienced attorneys and each time, that failed. I look back i thought im must have lost faith in man. And then i met my husband who told me hudson you are getting out of prison. This is a time when all of my prayers had been denied. He said are you going to trust what man says that god says. I said you know what, im going to try trusting in what god says pretty introduced me to jesus. As introduced me because although i had been told about jesus, ive been told about someone who died on the cross and if i believed in him, i would have life. I never really knew him. I never really got to know him. I never knew what having a relationship with him meant. I never really understood his own journey as he went through things. And it really got to know him from a whole different perspective and it changed everything. Having a relationship was different about anything else even growing up in a Baptist Church about faith. As i said that is been my faith was truly born was then. Hilary and as a christian, Christian University . Cyntoia i went to Christian University, any talk about god, i was so angry at that point. I spent so much time praying to god to free me from prison and a southerner was still sitting there and i had prayed that in not given life in prison but i was. But i was kindness as an adult i can praying. And i kept thinking god is not real. There is no one who is listening to me. And i went around and until that to anyone who would listen. The cub was not real. But i was proven wrong. I saw that just because we think things are supposed to go a certain way, some things that we see, do not lineup. It does not mean that he does not have a plan. He always has a plan, a plan for each and every one of our lives. You cant see floridas leading us but i promise you implants for good. The role for our lives is good pretty made a believer out of me. Hilary we talked about seeing gods community. Talk a little bit about that. Cyntoia this is an attorney, so when i talk about my faith. It has not always been that way. Gives a long searching process. And it can thinking this must be what this is. But when i was really got into the community of believers, the first time that had really had an interaction with people who professed to believe in jesus where my experience was completely different. But they look to me, how jesus walked around and look at people. They were considered to be the lowest of the low. And thats who he wanted to talk with and have dinner with. Youre no different than this guy over here. Like i love you just the same and they treated me that way. It was a completely different experience to see that, i do belong to a community. I am not an outcast. I dont need to be thrown away. That was powerful. Hilary you kind of alluded to this earlier but it seemed like your personal growth, your relationship to love, particularly romantic love in your relationship with your faith into god. They were all kind of intertwined. As a moment when in the book where you describe something into her husband jamie said and you describe it as, do not put me on a pedestal. It is not me who should be on a pedestal. Cyntoia in very different version of love than what you had experienced as a child. Hilary you talk about the intertwining of love and god printed. Cyntoia speaking earlier about how i was told that everything about my existing was involved to please a man. And i was supposed to put them in their needs on the pedestals. I was always taught that that was not what i was supposed to do as a woman. And then i met jamie. And he said wait a minute. Thats not what this is. You dont live your life for me, you live your life for christ. And thought wow. That is completely different. He showed me the difference of being with someone was led by their own ambitions was led by how they feel they should treat other people and being with someone is live led by their love for christ. It is completely different. That is what really showed me that god but this man in my life. All the time i was looking for a man, i was looking for my on ideas about what relationship was but he gave me the person who was created for me. And it was completely different than anything that i have ever encountered. Some with my best friend and partner rated this is my husband, he is everything. Its awesome. Any here. Hilary i wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you are doing now. You did a lot of work as you sort of in some instance that your vendor freedom before you were released. I even knew you were going to be free. And you started working on juvenile sentencings laws, a reform bill into the safe and having passed the first time, the baby continued that. The design is juvenile facilities, really thinking about the protocols about how to work with juveniles who get caught in the system. He also talked about your project for experience is developing glitter, gosh. I think i am forgetting something. Cyntoia exploitation. Hilary did you hear that. I am wondering if you could talk about the importance of your speaking. And sort of how you see your role as an advocate, and activist, and the world going forward. Its only been a few months but youre already involved. So like you said, the begin wave in prison. Cyntoia i went to the life program, and they help me to understand that this is that is given this in life in prison it does not mean that my life is over. I can choose how i would live my life rated for me, i wanted my life to have meaning. I did not want to just lay there and be done. So when i saw that there was things needed to be changed, i wanted to see what i can do about it. And so thats what i started doing. I started having conversations with people on the next you know im sitting in the prison with a state rep. Talking about a bill that is going to present on my behalf. To change the sentencing law to juveniles. I was in tennessee. Very conservative state. Not very keen on reform. As yet to pass. We are still working and is been five years in the making. So many opportunities like that, design and redesign the juvenile facility for Davidson County has yet to be built in it will be built soon. Being able to put myself out there and being or feeling empowered. I have a voice and what i have to say matters. I can have a seat at the table two. Is made all of the difference. Hilary thank you for all of that. I have so many questions and was just signaled though that that was the last. So i will open it now to the audience. I will ask people to be sure youre asking a question, not repeat questions and be concise. If you would just raise your hand, will have a microphone brought to you. Guest first, thank you for coming here. It is wonderful all youve done. You have gone through quite a transformation that happened. With their help along the way to address what that would look like. If you have spiritual advice. Was it something that just happened without it. How did that understanding come about. The understanding of god for you. Cyntoia this really good question. In my own encounter. I didnt know what it was. I had these dreams i started having. Prophetic dreams where i would dream something it would happen i cannot explain that with my usual explanations that this is not real. This does not exist and there is nothing going on here. So i spent a lot of time thinking, weight minute. And that really just sort of planted the seed. A lot of seeds were planted. God has taken me through a lot of processes for those seeds to grow. A sentiment husband along to moderate. It really helped my faith to be born but it was definitely a long process in a long drawn out process. We all have our own journeys. Now go through phases. We may be trying to figure out, who is god. Is god real. In some of us struggle with getting angry. I struggled with being angry. He definitely has a plan when i had the opportunity to sit and be still. And really focus my eyes on him, he will speak to you. He spoke to me and he will speak to you too. [background sounds]. Guest firstly, thank you for sharing your story. And the transformational work youre doing in saving the community. I briefly introduce the house present initiative offering an associate degree for 21 men in the security prison. It is now working to offer a bachelors degree. When the major civic studies in arts and sciences. Our students want to have a positive impact on their communities while there still incarcerated and is the released in this major gives them the tools to do that. The Mission Statement says that the dedicated to the application knowledge providing transformative information and increases collaborative environment. Having heard this and having done education prison, and the profound impact of this can have on someone. What about a role in upholding the Mission Statement or in general. Cyntoia i think that every university in essex to try to better their community. The try to equip young people to be successful. You have to acknowledge in the population. You have to acknowledge population of people for their part of your community as well. What about them. I know my own experience, the small group of people who are actually in a fight for it. They currently dont receive any funding from the university that will go a long way. To stand up and say we know that theres these conversations going on about reform and reentry. You know that equipping people and giving them the tools they need to succeed is good for all of society. It touches them and we want to be a part of the solution. So actually going to go into the business and educate these people im going to help. I think that goes along way. I think its absolutely in keeping with the Mission Statement. So the question is, how committed to the statement are they. [applause]. Guest ive been so completely engrossed in your story on twitter. Its nice to meet you in person in a just kind of wanted to know historically maybe in a different way in american, theres an additional question of black men and women who are in prison compared to whiteman and women. I just wanted you a thought your experience was. How do you think like influence in the relationship you had with your attorneys, and the judges in general. Cyntoia i came to see that it was not just what race you are. Whether you have the money to pay for things. It mattered who you know. It came from and so many different factors that were used to degrade people in the lower printed so classes of individuals. I saw them a lot. A lot of the women in the hispanic population was in prison. They did not get access to educational services. They were just expected to learn english. And theyre not given any kind of resources. No translators for medical services. The list goes on and on. There were still white women came from situations who had abusive husband. And their stories were never told and they were given life sentences for defending themselves. I think with a woman, so many different factors are used. To put people down and undeserving of justice. Thats unfortunate. Everybodys life matters, everybodys voice matters. It is ridiculous, justice and for all. Guest thank you so much for coming tonight sharing your story. The question is asked about the Mission Statement. In regards to the bachelor degree at the prison in massachusetts. Faculty across the university to try to answer and figure out some of the questions that they might have been doing this potential expansion of the program. And although the main kara content and social changes in an abstract way. What about the ability imagine the academic. [inaudible]. Having been a teachers associate at this program, i see they often surpass what might non incarcerated classmates can do. So at the intersection of education and incarceration, how do you think the experiences of our students and those who have similar stories backgrounds would further their academic abilities. Cyntoia like you said, the professors would all say, they saw that we were working harder than some of the outside students. Maybe just enough to get by. A lot of them, i only want to do this because my parents want to do and i feel like i have to do it. I would rather party for those of us who had been denied it. And we had no kind of stimulation in prison. This was just really hard focus to do something more. A lot of the programs, there were the first ones in the family had ever gone to college. They were always told it was not for them. It is never an option. The more hungry for it. We could encourage the outside students. Like i took this for granted. In the learning experience, having that real world experience. Same things from beyond the textbooks in the lectures. It was far more rewarding for them. I love what you are doing. If all of you could go out and advocate for the program, just how youre doing. Speaking the truth. Continue to call it out. Guest thank you so much for sharing your testimony. The boldness and the bravery that you have. Thank you for sharing that. I wanted to ask a question, one of the systems of trafficking. You mentioned that your trafficker wasnt rested not arrested. Can you give us a little bit more. And trafficking giving that this billion dollar industry theres a lot going on there. And operates the business. So what if your are thinking about in terms of partnering with organizations and solutions. The trafficker and from the top down. What does that look like. What are some ways that support and help in a way that we can decrease the demand. And really work through this broken world. See how to restore it. Cyntoia when you said supply and demand, theres a lot of talk about decriminalizing the buying of. And whatever it open season like that yes even more people being motivated to exploit young girls. It is definitely not supporting that. It is definitely not single were not going to punish the people who are purchasing. They are part of the problem. Supply and demand. A lot of people dont know is under federal statute, not only people who are encouraged young girls, to go out and selling bodies, but to people who purchase them for. There legally traffickers as well. Johns, they are traffickers. Educating people on that, then something i am personally committed to. In the glitter project, is on trafficking and exploitation and rape. It committed to dialogue that talks about that. That is all correlation between a lot of the things that we understand that is normal and okay. And the social norm that i grew up with that i see now. I contributed to my understanding of what it was like to me as a young girl to be with men. Its a that we need to be having. They glorify the commodification of womens bodies. That is a conversation that we need to have. Guest is glitter a tennesseebased at this point can we talk about your expanding it in some way. Cyntoia it is definitely going to be expanded. Were actually working on that. Glitter, as the grass roots initiative. You can leave here tonight and you can talk to somebody about something that youve learned. You can read this book and talk about something they learned is how it is about educating one another. The only way we can change and reprogram the understanding of what they are saying in our society. I came across a study the sender that 57 percent of men thought that certain girls prostitute themselves. And if these are people on the frontline of defending young girls from being exploited, like that is a problem. That is an issue. That is really what my advice or what i would like to be change. We have to Start Talking about what the issues are. Guest high in thank you for coming tonight. Im sure they talked about how social media really major story go viral. Want to know how to do feel to get out and see your story being told to social media. What is the level of accuracy during how you start was cold. In the future for advocacy. Cyntoia social media is not always accurate i think we all know that. [laughter]. But for me, what was important was there were people having the conversations. And it was nothing me and about me personally. But i thought about all of the young girls who were currently going through it when i went through. I think the women were still imprisoned, people forget about them. And he was just right those experiences also would never assault somebody talking my own situation, i said well, theyre shedding light for them. So that has the potential to create change. But you have to take a step further than just having a conversation redirected as the second question which is what can i do to help. And then you actually do it. For me it was really promising and is really helpful. And i really hope that there a lot of the things that we see these people going off about on social media when it comes to the system. When it comes to individual faces, it translates into changes in the law. The changes in the practices. The people who you dont necessarily see the names. Hilary last question. Guest mine is a followup read his or someone else. I have been following your story. I can imagine the devastation of giving a life sentence in prison. How did you not fall into a cycle of bitterness and how did you not feel like giving up. How did you turn this horrible situation into advocacy for yourself and other people. Cyntoia thats a great question. It was devastating. It was devastating to be told that meant life is going to be over before i ever even had a drivers license. I had never been to a homecoming or a prominent all of a sudden youre telling me my life is done. Completely devastating. But them something in me that was defiant. It said that i am not about to allow these people to tell me my life is over. I am not done. I am going to continue fighting and i will keep fighting. So definitely not resilience. And that comes from the lord. I didnt know it at the time that was the lord pushing me on. And keeping me going. It was definitely him because when i went back, i cant tell you how i can sit here and be of sound mind. Be able to not have that bitterness did is nothing but him. Guesthilary in your acknowledgment, but before that, you named some of the people who were your community and who are still inside. And wondering if you can Say Something about the complexity of freedom given that. Cyntoia for me, a lot of people when they talk about being free, and talked about what they would do. And things that they wanted to do. For me, i felt this sense of responsibility. Which is something that god has allowed me to do pretty for me in this position to help them and to shed light rain i feel like i am caring this. You look at me what you think about other people. The people think that they have done this they need to be sent away for x amount of years. Theres nothing that can be done for them. No, god can turn Anyone Around and these are people mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters they can be sitting here having the same conversation just as i am. So its really just putting a face to them. In a face to their experience. I think a lot of times we have seen is they are demonized. They been painted in the worst possible light and at the end of the day, they are people. Like me and you if you have an opportunity to going to the prison program, i highly advise it. It can completely change their lives. By judges and students by my own former district attorney, something that completely changes when youre able to put a face to someone. And see the humanity in them. Hilary thank you so much for being here and sharing your story with us in very beautiful book. Thank you everybody for coming out. Have you will be her book. In this world the book day. This is the day to do it. [applause]. Here are some of the current bestselling nonfiction books according to indy bound. Topping the list is the splendid end the mild. The leadership during the london blitz. After that is robert pokers. Half of whom were diagnosed with schizophrenia. Wrapping up our look at some of the bestselling nonfiction books according to indy bound. Her book educated has been on the bestseller list for more than two years. You can watch them online at book tv. Org. Book tv is television for serious readers this weekend and all weekend. 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