What is the empowered university . The notion is this, our universities should be look at universities and be honored with self. We talk about our leadership and our society that institutions that are healthy and secure should be willing to recognize whatever is going well, because knowledge of course, but also to be willing to say, but weve got a way to go. So its empowered to be honest with self and the subtitle which is shared leadership, culture change and academic success, starts with the notion that its not about the one person. Its not just about the University President , its about all of us working together with the vision of educating students and thats the notion of empowerment. And i found the subtitle really interesting, too, because if you even look at the cover of the book, you dont have one listed out as higher than the other or a greater priority than the other. You really have them almost laid out as concentric circles. You said that well. That we all rely on each other. Thats exactly right. Why was that . I have to tell you. I get goose bumps doing math, im a mathematician and the notion of those circles. If you look at them you see some intersection and theyre connected and thats the point. When we think about culture change, when we think of academics and leadership, those are not separate topics, theyre ways in which we work collectively through those, through this intersection to think about how i as a leader, whether im a College President , a provost or a faculty member can work effectively in a culture to educate students. Its the notion of building synergy in the sense of empowering university. And whats really interesting, i think your life story and your trajectory, you really tell an important story in this, where the empower university is never an overnight thing. The idea of building culture, the idea of academic success. The idea of shared leadership. Those cant just be catch words, those things have to be infused, nurtured and you have to give time. You plant seeds and then give time to grow and i think the experience that you had at unbc is actually a great example of that. As a person going through their own journey, how do they think about that in terms of patient and timeline, which for a lot of leaders is not always an easy thing . Sure, i mean, you start with the idea that our campus, unbc, university of maryland, were under 60 years old. We were founded in the 60s and ive been fortunate to be president there for over 25 years, what ive learned is that the success that weve had and its been considerable, has come as a result of the work of a lot of people taking the time to analyze, to assess the problems, the challenges, to get to know our students, to understand how the culture needed to change, and then to work in a very organized approach to making a difference and that means what . It means that we understand that in american Higher Education, half the students, unfortunately, who go to colleges dont graduate. So, how could we increase substantially Graduation Rates on the one hand and it also means that we need to think about, what does it mean to be an educated person, to understand, quite frankly, that it takes more than simply sending students through classes, that were trying to touch the hearts and the mind of people. It means that we have kind of a selffulfilling prophesy which says when students are coming to our institutions, we want to make sure that we succeed. Most people who go to college when the dean or president said look to the student to your left, to the right, one of you will not graduate. Thats a terrible thing to say to young people, or people not so young. Look to the left and right, all three of you graduate, if we dont, its a matter of fault. A matter of having a patience as an institution, but as you say, as an individual to know you dont make substantive progress overnight. When you talk about improving Graduation Rates or discussing what it means to be educated or helping people understand how to work with people different from themselves, it takes time to shape a culture, to make for success. And so for leaders who are going through this process, how do you know when youre on that right path of shaping the culture . How do you know . Sure. Because sometimes you need those benchmarks. To let you know youre going in the right direction or you need to change direction. You know, i use the quotes from eric weiners book, the sea we swim in. You dont appreciate it until you get out of it and look back at it. I would suggest and the book suggests my colleagues, henderson, and the coauthors and i all are saying we have to get out of the culture, we have to step out of it and look back at whats going on and when thinking about success and how successful we are, the two approaches that we have worked on for years, are analytics, use of data in looking at trends and disaggravating the data, and looking at women and people of color, number one, and number two, looking at majors of students and their economic backgrounds. But number two, doing focus groups. I have learned over these years, my colleagues and i agree that the best way to understand whats going on, beyond looking at data, which can seem a little cold, is getting to listen to the voices of people, of the students, of our colleagues, whats working, whats not working, to understand what is, quite frankly, sometimes very challenging to understand what excites them. Its in that listening process that we learn more about who we are and what the challenges are. I think one of the fascinating things, one of the many fascinating things thats happening at the university of maryland, baltimore county, under your leadership is how youve reshaped what people see when they look at unbc. This was a university that prior to you, frankly, felt like, it was a sleepy Commuter School, and now were talking about, you know, a community that is leading the nation in many ways, in how its training and teaching scientists and mathematicians and engineers, and particularly, were not talking about scientists and mathematicians and earning engineers, but people are color, and talk to us how that transition took place from going again, a sleepy Commuter School to now being, as many people, you know, blissfully and joyfully nickname, the nerd factor factory. [laughter]. The house of grit. Sure, sure, we talked about our first 20, 25 years when we were not wellknown and in many ways we were still commuting and not become residential as we are now. In the first years, i want to make that point. Faculty were working hard and faculty and staff building a foundation to make sure the enterprise was sound and it was in that steth, we ha setting, weve got something to build on visibility. And we have a campus with students from over 100 countries. In new york, the fact when you walk down the corridor from our campus, youll see students from all over the world. It feels like the u. N. If people talk about us in science and engineering, we le lead blacks going on to get the degrees. The media people always love the science and engineering and those important, but im excited our classes in greek and latin are full at 8 00 in the morning, for example, that we have students in the art. That we get to the American College theater festival and we have so many students studying language and culture. Im studying french now, an ive got students speaking french to me. And stem is important and sciences is important and i bring it up, something we say in the book, we as a society have to appreciate the fact its not one area of discipline and other, versus another. Its not stem versus nonstem. Its how do we integrate these, and how do we teach our future scientists for ethics, and how do we have digital and technology. Apart of looking at the mirror in the university and a mirror of society how do we teach our students, they can be proficient in a number of areas, study language and culture and math and it book is coming at a powerful time. Weve never seen the university as a system under such attack. Yes. The virtue of Higher Education, about why people need that, more training and so on, so forth. Jobs. Future. How, when you think about the empowered university. Whats your response to that critique or that criticism and whats the role of the empowered university to counter that type of rhetoric . Sure. I think when an institution is empowered and we are feeling that sense of empowerment on our own campus, were able to look at the big picture. The big picture should say, its not for everyone, and a lot of students dont want a liberal setting. They might want post opportunities, and number two, we may appreciate the value of communities colleges. Theyre educating almost half of all students in america and as a university, we theede to be connecting with k through 12, with Community Colleges and understanding whats happening in the postsecondary world and so we talk about being empowered to appreciate the genius of the and, versus the all. It means its not one thing or the other, its not universities or liberal arts colleges or its that American Colleges are rich and diverse with all the different types of institutions. When people ask me if Higher Education matters, my First Response is absolutely. Excuse me in fact, i say if you show me a family that has seen some success in college, at least someone has gone on and got a College Degree and got a job. We will see a family that others want to do. I dont see families in success in colleges and universities saying no, we dont need this anymore. The challenge we face that most dont realize. Only about 30 of americas families have experienced college graduation. If youve not experienced it, you dont really appreciate what it can do for your family to move into the middle class. Two things we need to be saying that the book talks about, empowered to say to our nation and beyond, Higher Education matters, absolutely. Were creating citizens, were teaching people how to think critically. Were teaching them the importance of civic engagement, all of these things that we do at unbc that all the other institutions do, but at the same time we should be empowered to look at self in the mirror and say, but we can be much better. Theres more that we can do. When you think about theres more that we can do. Yes. I cant help, but think about, your own personal story and your own personal journey. You know, a journey that brought you from alabama to maryland and now leading one of the most prestigious and forward looking universities in the world. Can you tell us a bit about your journey and the role that education played in that journey . I appreciate that. I am a very fortunate to have been a part of the childrens march in birmingham and to be the child of educators, and so all of my life, ive loved reading and math and thats what i want for every child is to appreciate the meaning of words and to understand their connections across these disciplines, and so i i am very fortunate to be at a university that allows me to get to know people from all over the world. I could never have imagined as had a black kid growing up in birmingham in the 50s and 60s that i would be at a university that had people from every continent. Because what im able to see on our campus at umbc, that is so remarkably inspiring is people from countries that are so different in many ways and yet, my students come and they appreciate what they have in common. They appreciate cultural differences, but they also appreciate that here in our country. We have brought in people from all over the world who come to learn, who come to talk about ideas and to prepare to be lead, and so, i think of my own journey as one where i had the chance to be around dr. King and the children and to go to jail and to have that experience as a little child leader in that Civil Rights Movement who then was inspired to understand that through community and through values, we as a university can prepare people to lead in civic engagement, in stem work, in the arts and in other areas, so, my journey, actually the year that i had the honor to march with dr. King and the other children is the same year my university at umbc was founded in 1963 by the maryland legislature. So, we are together and ive been there at the university over 30 years. I would also say for public Higher Education and private Higher Education as we tell our stories, the question has to be who are the people who are giving us support, whether its our donors, our alumni, but empowered also means looking at context. So, for every public institution, its looking at the context of one state, were fortunate in maryland and i say this around the country, to have a governor and a legislature who come from heavily from different parties. Political parties and they work well together the way that american democracy is meant it work. And so, our political leaders, our elected officials, the governor and the legislators work very closely to ensure that we keep building the quality of education and Higher Education and it has been very encouraging to those of us in the field to appreciate that in the state of maryland, the understanding is very clear that the future of our state. The future of our citizens of the economy of our families will be closely connected to the quality of education and Higher Education. And you talked about how if you look at umbc, the student body is so many different places. Yes. They arent just people from baltimore nor just from maryland or the united states. Right. This is a Global Community. Yes. What was your first exposure to the Global Community . And how did it change you . I had the privilege of studying in egypt. My girl friend at the time, now wife, studied in egypt as Exchange Students from Hampton University from virginia, at university of cairo. There were students from all over the world there and it was the first time i was in an environment where people first didnt speak english except for those at the university often did not speak english and where i began to learn some things about another culture, another religious, about the arabic language. But most important, to see how people viewed us as americans, and as africanamericans. And it was a broadening experience in many ways, and it led me to appreciate what unbc does today as we work to encourage more and more of our students to have experiences abroad, as we have more and more students who come to us, as we have faculty from all over the world and the most important thing i tell americans all the time is, for us to first appreciate the beauty of the american democracy, but secondly, to appreciate the responsibility we have in this country, in this most privileged of countries to understand human kind, and to reach out to other people with a sense of welcoming to say that we are all a part of this human race. And how much of your education was that . I mean, when you think about your leadership and your impact on me and on so many others. Sure. Its an all encompassing love. Its a love of accepting people where they are. And bringing them all along this, in this conversation. So theres a formalized education and then theres something that you really touch on, which is the informal education. Yes, yeah. Of the exposure. Sure. Can you talk a little more about that. Sure, and my experiences were shaped, being in egypt and beloved hampton and virginia, and my grand alma mater, university in champlain and understanding that the world was predominantly white in my world in birmingham and at my college, while we have professors from other races the fact is my world had primarily been africanamerican and i began to see the things at university at champlain and prepared me for the umbc experience. Its the only university founded at such a time that people of all races to go, to come there and at that time we were talking black and white. In the beginning we werent an an institution from different races, but this is what i saw around the country and worked to improve on at umbc, this is a controversial point, but ill make it. We have desegregated now in that we have students of all races at all types of institutions, but we have not truly integrated and at this point in my life, i have to tell the truth. If you go to most places, you see people like themselves. And of course, with the background, we should appreciate self. The question we should ask, as we talked about empowered university and empowered society are we teaching our young people how to interact substantively with people different from themselves . And this is one of the strengths of umbc. We work really hard both in the classroom and beyond the classroom to do one thing. We say this to students from the beginning, yet beyond your comfort zone. You dont want to know people just from your own race and background. You want to know all human beings because the world is so diverse and we dont talk enough about how we should go about coming to appreciate other people, caring about other people who are very different from ourselves. This is part of our success at umbc. Yet, as we say success is never final we can always be better. So empowered university, empowered to be better than we are. We saw that perfectly on display and i say this as a native baltimoreian and still a resident of baltimore, we saw that perfectly on display after the uprising around the death of freddie gray. Yes. And the leadership role that you personally played, the leadership role that umbc played, and the fact that you really called on our society to do exactly what you just said, to understand the interconnectedness of all of our joy and interconnectedness of all of our pain. Can you talk a little about that moment and why it was so important for you to use your voice and the voice of umbc in such an empowering way . Ill never forget coming to campus one day, during the period we were so worried about the children of baltimore and citizens there, and that was a large sign up over one of the buildings and it said, we are baltimore, too. Too and my students put it up. Our campus is in the suburbs, adjacent to the airport, 600 acres. We were not physically connected to whats going on in the city, but we were emotionally and you can see the downtown. And my staff and working to be connected and supportive. People dont realize that baltimore is the site this baltimore region the site of some of the most educated people in the world. In fact, when luke being at an africanamerican population, we are the second best educated community in the country according to a report from the brookens institution, so youve got a lot of welleducated people of all races in baltimore and then you have people who as is in the case in new york, in america, who are challenged, who need our support in so many ways with education. You heard me say only 30 of americans have the experience of going to college, of graduating from college, and so the point im making is that the notion of an empowered university should be empowered not only to look inward at the campus, but the big question is so what are we doing to help the children of our region . What are we doing to help people who are poor . What are we doing with that income inequality challenge and facing the academic disparate and the Health Disparity . A part of what we were doing during that period is what other institutions worked to do and they had challenges, that is to get into the city, get into the environment. To get involved in the tutoring and the working on policies that can make a difference and theres much more work to be done. But what i can tell you that our University Said was we are proud to be a part of baltimore and that we stand by. What was the reaction to the students . And i say primarily because you have students who are from west baltimore and you have students who are from western who are from, you know, western china. You have students from all over the globe. Sure, sure. What did you see amongst the students when everything that was happening very much in whether theyre adopted back yard or their real back yard. Sure. How did you see that moment . People were trying to understand the issues and i think what youll appreciate was that we were having fabbicuy and staff were having town Hall Meetings and we were infusing work into the curriculum that look at poverty and race and discrimination and most important, what it means to try to reshape this thinking about meme who have not had voice. So large numbers. Courses, particularly in the humanities and social sciences and the arts have focused on those areas. We are a part of the National Movement of imagining america and thats what faculty and working with students to look at these challenges that weve faced in our society, in our cities and its not one city or a couple of cities. These are problems around the country. We know this, of disparity. So, a part of our solution has been to infuse these challenges into the work that students are doing in the classroom and in community engagement. So that as they become leaders, whether theyre going to be a lawyer or a teacher or a scientist, they have a better appreciation of the impact of poverty, of the strength that children bring to the classroom and most importantly of the possibility of changing the way we do business, of rethinking the narrative so that we stop blaming those people that are less fortunate and at the same time teach young people how to take as much responsibility as they can even as we work to change policies that can be so discriminating. As you know, and its just for full disclosure to everyone, everyone watching and listening, dr. Hrabowski is the one of the first people i went to guidance and when i was thinking of taking this role was one of the first to get delays thoughts and for that im eternly grateful. Robin organization is robin hood is one of the largest organizations in the country and think about the role that poverty plays inside of the tremendous impacts on everything that we see. One of the things youve always focused on is the concept of Brain Development and how exactly are we exercising this muscle . How are we creating platforms that every child, every young person, every person period has a chance to exercise that muscle in a liberating way and we think about this role that these disparities play in our large society. There are some people who say that, you know what, understanding those discrepancies, thats not my issue, thats not my thing, and for you, who is who is taking such a lead on educating, not just our current, but future leaders in our society, how do we help people to understand . Are we training our colors to understand the role that each and every one of them have to play in addressing some of these society schisms regardless what occupation they go into or regardless of what field or profession they choose to take on . Sure, i go to economics for a moment to say all we need to do is look at income inequality challenge in our society and the large, the millions of americans of all races that are in the bottom group and how that group grows all the time, as we see wealth just at the top more and more. Its financially at the top. And the challenge is a structural challenge, as we think about how we help our children with education, which is a piece of if, but there are other issues that our Society Needs to appreciate and thats the advantages of those entitled to all kinds of advantages that we have. Whether its about housing or loans or its about ways of building our families. So understanding the devastating impact of things like poverty and race and gender discrimination can help us understand how solving those problems will lift us all up as a society. To are my campus, whats been amazing to me is that our colleagues for a long time, for years and years, have known we needed to be talking with, working with, focused on people in our inner city areas and in other places where we have challenges throughout the state of maryland. And what that means is, looking at ways of helping children to learn. And looking at public policy. We focused a lot on public policy, whether education policy, all the way in graduate programs and grants we get. Looking at issues of finance, looking at issues of health care, so there is this need for a broader understanding by the public of all of the ways in which poverty, for example, has that negative impact including what nih tells us about the learning process, the issue of stress and relationship to learning. Develop programs designed to help leaders. An Amazing Program involving young math and science teachers, major schoolwork and middle schools and those people work in the schools of those children. America needs to look at performance of children and understand if they are not doing well that its a more complicated matter then simply not studying and working. Much more cop look at it. We beaches more support. Or working on that. We have to find ways of having outcome but outcome and accountability that will be related to most importantly related to the support we give to teachers and children and families. Its that support that can make a big difference. Host yes. Thinking of support, its interesting knowing what support do we need, what support do we ask for . Theres a great story in your book and i want to turn to it, pages 71, a chapter talk about grid and greatness. Youre talking about how the time youre the interim president. This attack and 92 and governor schaeffer, former mayor of baltimore, then became governor for maryland. But you met with him and get a chance to articulate your vision and what you wanted to do and what you thought could happen. Theres a point here where he asked you and he says after hearing you speak him he says what can you do to support your candidacy to become president . Im going to call the regions and ask them to make you the president. Your response was fascinating because everybody natural response, that sounds great, thank you so much. Your response was, please do not contact the board of regents. The thing that you asked him for was not for for a call, not for recommendation. Asked to four trees. You asked him for trees. Guest first of all, if you know anything about politics are governors are always powerful but i wanted to become president if the regions 1b to be president. I did what anyone saying the governor made them do it. We all love governor chafer. We have a great governor now. This is what i would say to you. I knew he didnt have money but you want to show support. We were a young campus and were out on the roof and it looked around and i need more green space. I knew something he had power over and i said give us trees. He looked at me and smiled and he said i could do that. They did. A nice story is before he died i brought it over, picked him up from the Senior Citizens place and drove them around and i said, it was 277 years had gone by. The little trees that become these beautiful trees and i said governor, you did this for us, and he got tears. It was so special. It was a special moment, it really was. Host its also very symbolic because you have the saplings and seeds, small trees that grew into these mammoth things. And, frankly, trees that will outlast us all, that those trees will be on that campus, those trees will be at and durability after generations after generations and providing shade and support. Its also very emblematic about how we think about Higher Education and the point of Higher Education. Guest and about the big problems in our society. Climate change is very real and one of the major things my campus is the environment, whether were talking department engineering, Environmental Science or policy, we have launched thousands of students are working those areas and large number of faculty working on Environmental Issues whether its about water and the Chesapeake Bay, although it over to areas about technology and acted to the environment. All of that fits well when thinking about the empowered universe should get involved with the problems of society. The Climate Change issues, and five it would be one of those. The one problem that it think we need to look even more carefully at would be the relationship not only between k12 and universities but the fact such a large percentage of our students who are beginning college never graduate. While we say its about half, the fact is that distribution is, the wealthiest places youll see 80, 90 of people who start graduating when thinking about four years, but largest percentage of the public quite frankly are going to be below 40 . I am always saying they should not be acceptable to any of us. In the 25 years ago because we were far more community, with most of the freshmen or sophomores oncampus living but we have gone from under 40 to now 70 . If you you include those who transferred to other majors we know about, high 80s. We worked very hard to make sure students who come to us actually do succeed. The other part of that though is there are certain strategies that we need to be using. One is redesign. People will hear more and more about people who are redesigning courses, that we understand lectures only one way of delivering. If you look at the usc chemistry discovery said use students working in groups, realtime, assessment going on. Use of Biotech Companies oncampus in making the education as exciting as possible. I often as people the question about k12 and universities. How many of you know of students were bored in school . Being able to help students appreciate excitement of learning, getting to more actively engaged rather than opening their heads and pouring in knowledge, teaching them how to use technology can make a big difference. Finally, for us the number one word you hear at, is grit. Our Chesapeake Bay retriever, his name is true grit. We say that we are the house of grit. And i will tell you the fact that 50, 60 of her students have paired from another country really speaks volumes about what people from other countries often bring to this country. When you look at the wonderful people who came to new york and went on to get the nobel prize. What is that quality . Its hunger for knowledge and we are suggesting putting out to society that we must be about to look in the mayor and ask those are questions, are we hungry for the knowledge . Are we teaching our students not only to be hungry for the knowledge that excited about curiosity and asking the questions . It is about looking in the mirror at herself not just as university but as a society. Host how do we teach that hunger . How do we instill that hunger . Guest such a great question. From early years we know when we go, my colleagues and and i god work in the innercity schools in second and third grade and ask question, me, me, me. Everybody so excited. I think president and others a university should be as concerned about prek as we are about phd programs. You see that curiosity in the child in the early years if the question is how do we keep that from being somehow diminished . How do we make sure we keep pulling the curiosity . Its about giving them incentives to keep asking the questions, allowing them to make mistakes, helping them understand sometimes women more we get knocked down then when we keep going it. How do we keep experimenting and trying different approaches to getting the work, to become principal and understand . If i go to the board and i put up a problem and different equations and i solve it and then everybody says wow, he would knows a lot. And then i give a test on the problem and everybody fails the test, have i taught it . Know, i have not. Yet we had this notion that once we presented it thats all responsibility. As the society we do that. I would argue to keep kids excited we have to keep thinking about whats our expectations, what are we expecting. Theres a ted talk i give starts with the idea of High Expectations but its not just High Expectations of the students. Its all of us. What i love about umc is my colleagues are constantly working while digital arts, social sciences to find ways appalling students into the work and having them as curious as possible and taken responsibility for taking it ts far as they can and using us as colleagues in the process. Host when you say the idea of using them as colleagues, it goes back to this idea of a collaboration, a partnership inside of the work which often times for people is not easy and its that simple. Thats also something has to be taught, how to collaborate correctly. Guest we learn by do by doing. We learn rather than by telling as less like but the test, its also Building Community among students. What does he need to build command among students and faculty . And what does it mean when you say it takes researchers to build researchers . It takes artists to produce artists. We are much better when we have seen others have done it. A collaboration that goes on in labs and the collaboration we see in a theatrical production or working in imaging, the work i see people doing and gendered womens women studies as her talk about discussing these challenges. These are all the ways in which we can be much better. One of the things we say in the book has to do with all the controversy involving title ix because talk about something that happened was really exciting and that something that was challenging. The exciting thing was when we won the vascular game against uva and here are very nerdy campus without the resources of that whatever institution, and it went well. We took the time to look and say who are we . We take great pride having just won a National Championship in cybersecurity. Where that kind of nerdy place. On the other hand, we had a student protest as all campuses will and it was a time to say to students we are sorry we have not been even more effective. We are working to the right thing. We didnt do what all we needed to do. We will be better. The when you get better whether its about student protest or its about challenges with any group, is to listen carefully to what they say. Thats a living doing. We are very proud that weve been listening to our students, the experts in these areas and reshaping the way we do business, changing the structure and most important giving the resources and keeping a level of humility. It seems to me part of being about as a university or as a leader is remaining humble and think i have so much more to learn. At every level of our society we need leadership that speaks to the question of humility, confidence to guess, but humility, and a willingness to listen to different voices. Add to listen to people different from ourselves. Im very proud of her students and colleagues when we have sessions that will bring people from a different political parties, different points of view and we come together to hear those different points of view with an understanding that frankly we can even agree to disagree with civility. We must teach our students and our society that very important message. Host when we talk about the role of the unpowered university, you mentioned something important. You talk about producing and educated citizenry. It seems like when you talk about the idea of an educated citizenry this is not about how do we get more people with phds and bachelor degrees. Something much bigger than that. You talk about the on page 211 where you say producing the educated citizenry is our responsibility and it leaves us with several critical questions. What does it mean to be educated in our society and how is that changing . What does it mean to be educated in our society . Guest it is a question we should be constantly asking. The head of Phi Beta Kappa has suggested the role of liberal education is to produce students who learn how to present their arguments and to base their arguments on evidence, the importance of evidence. Number two, to be willing to listen to other points of view, not to win the argument, but to listen to other points of view and to look carefully at the Evidence Base to support another point of view. And most important, to learn how to find a common ground. How do we figure out what it is we all can agree to that is for the public good, the common good somehow. For us at umbc we are through our work in the humanities, to the sciences, looking at ways of helping students to learn to ask the hard questions, to read critically but to appreciate the value of evidence in a society that is bombarding us with information and different points of view with things being confused about what is true and what is not. Educated people should have the skills to ask the questions qut will lead to the evidence that can therefore determine what is true. At the essence, the heart of all this, empowered to seek the truth. Host when a person is on that path to seek the truth, i think one of the things you touch on is that the truth has a tendency to show itself in height itself in places that you might not expect in people that you might not expect. How do both institutions and individuals go about finding there both individual and collective truth . Guest i think we can become more successful at seeking and expressing the truth by making sure that we are first understanding of vices we bring to any work, all of us brings certain point of view and sometimes we may assume that point of view is the right point of view. It may be a point of view but its not always the case that its the only right point of view. Sigh think its very important all of us as educators but as citizens to be willing to open our minds and to view that of the perspective. I have learned so much for people from very different perspective on my campus because my campus as a microcosm of america and of the world, and people bring different religious beliefs, political beliefs, will topical points of view and it is so important to understand those perspectives. And also to be able to ask questions in a way that doesnt simply make People Defensive but rather helps the next person to be more introspective to think about what he or she is saying, as we do the same thing. I would argue we too often having teaching people to win the argument as oppose to engaging in the argument in the debate in such a way that we can figure out what really is the truth as as a think about whats best for everybody. Even as we understand that there are some things that are absolutely the truth, that we should tell the truth, that we should make sure that weve honor in the work that we do. Host have on in the work that we do . Guest yes, yes. Its an oldfashioned idea but i really believe that we as educators can show our students through our own behavior and through working with them that we know people can make mistakes, the honorable thing to do is to make sure we have sincerity when were working to find the facts and use the saxon making decisions about what we do. So empowered to again look at self very carefully. Also empowered to be honest about whats wonderful about our country, about our university and ways in which we can be even better. Host you talk about that quite a bit in the book which i think is so important and found on page 184 we talk about the fact that challenges still remain, that this is not always going to be something we crossed the finish site and you can kind of take a pause. Your college one thing and java new challenge and you highlight a few where you say even with this world of course redesign curriculum and information we who do not appreciate receiving need for new approaches to teaching and learning. Theres some departments of which few or no faculty members at redesign their courses in a meaningful way. Occasionally new hires will come to teach or redesigned course and without interest and the new approaches that of an carefully developed revert to a more traditional approach to pedagogy. This idea that changes always there, change is not always welcomed. And how exactly do we continue to push knowing that certain things over and certain things wont and thats perfectly fine . But thats always a complicated thing for an organization to be able to take on tragic my colleagues were very helpful, the coauthors and me, and writing the because we decided we wanted to hear what people thought about why we were being successful. I say this to fellow College President. We know a lot about our campuses. Theres a lot we dont know. After 25 years i thought he understood the reason why we were successful and while it may have known some i have learned so much from all of these focus groups about ways in which people had to go around obstacles in order to get it done. I wasnt that we were necessarily empowering them to do what needed to be done. Sometimes because of personalities, because of power struggles they had to move around obstacles, to be on them in order to get the work done. It was a humbling experience. When they could say yes, we are doing a great job in educating people across disciplines and producing more students who are doing well in sites including students of color, but the bottom third of the students who are interested in these majors are not having that success. We are still not willing to do the ends of departments are more inclined to be involved in innovative approaches, others are more traditional. As we listen even to people who said yes, and i would bring in more people, people are not accustomed to seeing large number of students succeed in science. We called the first year of science in a debate in america we doubt courses. When asked audiences a question, if you knew someone who started off in sight to change the major . The whole room typically will raise their hand. The First Response is which is not as good insights. But the fact is even based on the work weve done with the National Academy of sciences, like colleagues and i, the higher the test score sometimes, its about the ap exam, s. A. T. , standardized test, the more socially prestigious university, believe it or not the greatest the chance that student will leave the scientific its not because of the student isnt working hard so their structural issues, issues involving attitudes and what we at umbc are doing and some more to do with is just that come changing the culture to make sure students we admit have a reasonable chance of succeeding with its insides of psychology were in the arts. Most important when we celebrate the success of seeing so many of the students doing well and going on to best institutions in the country and beyond to get phds, thats all great but what about that average student . What about the student in the bottom third . We tend to have great anecdotes about our top students but what about the students who are not among the top . What are we doing and what else do we need to do . Thats what i mean by being empowered to be truthful about the whole story. Host where do you see Higher Education going as our society continues to continue to evolve . When you talk about the number of people who have started Higher Education and of not completing, the mud people Walking Around with credits in no degree. Watching cost of Higher Education continue to rise in certain areas faster than others. What do you see as the future of Higher Education, more consolidation, more buildout . How do you see this going . Guest first of all i am somebody with a very positive view of the future, and i say that with great confidence. I often as people the question, did your grandparents go to college . Or repairs in college . Only 30 have gone to college. I know in the 50s and 60s i know a lot about where we were as a society. Most people were not born in the 50s so they dont understand just how challenging our society was then when people talk about the challenges were facing today, and we do face challenges. I get that might is not the first time we face challenges. Go back to the 60s, these of the 1960s or the 1860s and we see some of those challenges and divisions and all the problems. I say that as i think about the future because im convinced about using the same quote before, genius of the and versus tyranny of the ore. What do i mean . We will continue to see a lot of facetoface interaction because a lot of people need the for number of reasons especially in certain disciplines come specially certain ages, certain backgrounds but with also are saying increasing Important Role of technology and well see both online programs and hybrid approach. Many of our classes at umbc of course redesign and just some part lecture, simple working group which also some things online. You have use of technology and youll see more of all those things happen but i also see we will be talking up post secondary opportunities more. Not just only the fouryear degree but the twoyear programs, Certificate Programs, the credentialing. My campus umbc and the rest of the University Systems a and a part of partnership which involves merging institution, washington, d. C. And maryland public and private from virginia to come all the institution in between. We are working with companies to look at the skills people need. One of the big challenges that you may not know about is there so Many Technology jobs that are not getting field right now. Its exciting to see the work were doing and others with a Greater Washington partnership to a programs, Certificate Programs that would allow meeting for humanity majors in the social sciences to get into the technology field. They have that brought education. There are courses they can take, certain experiences, statistics or program that would allow them to get jobs. If you only way we can deal with the Technology Infrastructure we have. We are not producing enough Computer Science majors or people of color and women in the 80s for example, we had about 36 of the Computer Science majors were women. Today were down 20 20 or sly below that. Its a major travesty that were not as a society looked in the mirror and said something is wrong with this picture. Other countries are producing much higher percentages of women. Our approach is to have women in i. T. We are encouraging more women to get involved in Computer Science, in computing and working with k12. Probably the most Exciting Program to meet involving k12 is one for girls, middle school girls involving yoga and coding. Get that . Get yoga encoding. Youre getting the stamina that goes with the yoga and are able to become an ambassador for girls and technology. Its funded by the National Security agency and some of the companies in the area. We need to be encouraging much more of that. The point im making is somehow the ability of our Higher Education enterprise to look in the mirror to be about as we are at umbc and to be honest about the strength on the one hand, and to say but we have this problem scope shorts of people in technology, the need for more women or people of color, the fact students who are from lowincome backgrounds for another educational background and need more support. All these ovaries which we can solve problems and make the point to our society the Higher Education matters. The thing i love about that is whether the program or the program, these are partnerships between our public safety, private sector, our institutions of Higher Education, our philanthropy that everyone has an Important Role to play in this. Guest even when a a look at our k12 programs, school systems, innercity schools and stem center in the schools and the idea of connecting the arts and sciences together and engineering and having kids to aspire to become engineers, having women, people of color going into the schools and showing them what its about, having our students on the university there as tutors and mentors. Theres a need for this intersection of these different groups at the same i talk about shared leadership, academic and culture change, we can talk about our society with the Corporate Public and private sectors working together, with government, universities, companies, with foundations, with the goal of strengthening what we do in education. Host so we have only a few minutes left and i will very quickly share a string get your response. I was connected to another university and when their University President ship came up, they wanted to talk to you and see it get any interest in the presidency. I i said i know him very well. They said he might talking with them . I went as i emailed you and as you always do you immediately emailed me back and set of course, lets grab lunch. We were sitting down for lunch and a story going into it and you smell and you said i think i know where youre going with the questioning. Because i was asking to gauge your interest in this presidency. Presidency. He said something i will not forget. He said to me, you said to be very honest the students who are there better chance than not whoever is sitting in the seat they will be fine. The reason the thing that brought you to umbc, the thing that keeps you there is not just the progress the universe has made it gets the fact you know you being in the seat matters it matters to the student who walk on that campus. It matters to the students for the online and it matters to the student who will apply to go to that campus. Not only do i say thank you for that and, frankly, the sense of clarity that you gave me in how i think about my own life and my own career, im incredibly grateful for this book and the contribution youve made to all of us in terms of talk about not just the empowered university but the role of education and our society. Thank you for what you are and what you continue to do. Guest i appreciate that. Very honored to be. The message of umbc is we have been empowered to think kids who come from middleclass backgrounds, workingclass background, whatever can be the very best and to want to become rhode scholars at oxford or professors at harvard. Our students go to the best university. A young man who is now tackled the position classics at columbia. So the idea that you could have excellence in all types of institutions and you can have authenticity, my colleagues, faculty and staff, they really care about the students. It is an exciting place. Come and visit again soon, please. Host i will do. I will do. Guest okay. You watch a special edition of booktv airing now to the week while members of congress serve in the districts due to the growing virus outbreak. Tonight a look at pandemics
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