I never really thought much about the flu. It seemed like something that came around every year and people get sick and get better again. I never been interested in it at all but a few years ago im a reporter from the New York Times and i wrote an article for the times about a miraculous discovery. There was a guy at Walter Reed Medical Center and he was writing in a technical journal called Science Magazine that he had managed to get some samples from the soldiers who died in 1918 and in that lung tissue were fragments of the virus that had killed them and when i interviewed this man about his work he told me that the influenza pandemic of 1918 and i was stunned. I had never heard of anything like this. It was the worst Infectious Disease epidemic in recorded history. It killed so many people that if Something Like that came by today it would kill more people than the top 10 killers wrapped together, 1. 5 million americans. And i just found out by looking at the cdc papers by the centers for Disease Control that 99 percent of the people that died in this epidemic were under 65 so it was an astonishing devastating epidemic and what made the story for me was this idea that all these years later, molecular biology, theres such incredible serendipity involved that somebody could have some lung tissue that still have those vital beings in there and asked the question what was this virus . How could an influenza virus become such a killer and could it happen again and if so would we recognize it in time . Host theres one reference in the book that 20 200 Million People died worldwide in 1918. Guest historians keep ratcheting the number upwards. 40 million is an underestimate and the cdc says its a median estimate and there was a meeting of historians and people interested in the flu and south africa and theyre saying they believe the true number was closer to 100 million and approximately 20 million died on the indian subcontinent alone. Host what is influenza . Guest its a simple virus and it only lives in human lungs and while its there its only job is to take a long sell and make it into a virus factory so the virus gets in and like any other virus takes the cell machinery and forces it to make new viruses and the cell dies and the virus escapes. Its a simple little thing. Host what happens to the body then . Guest there are 4 hallmarks of influenza. One is you get a fever and you take to your bed. You have muscle aches and pains. Fever, you have a cough. You dont always sneeze but you have a cough. Host have you ever had it . Guest i had it once. Host so you know what it feels like. Guest it was so bad,five days and i still remember the miserable aches and high fever. Host in 1918 where to start . Guest thats a good question. The first time it came into the United States in a big way was in camp evans near boston and people thought at the time this might be germ warfare because they couldnt believe it was Something Like the flu and many people insisted on putting the word influenza in quotation marks area it was world war i and there are rumors there had been a greasy cloud over Boston Harbor with these germs killing people for that maybe the germans had put something into their aspirin that would kill people so when i went on the ride to camp bevins it was the most horrible thing anybody had ever witnessed. They had so many young soldiers were dying that they had to have trains to take away the dead. The bodies were stacked up like cordwood people said when they were there and it was so shocking that the Surgeon General sent a contingent of three of the leading doctors in the United States to go out and say what is going on at camp bevins . One of them later wrote his memoirs and said i cant bear to think about this thing. This was bevins in the fall of 1918 and the deadly influenza virus demonstrated the superiority of human inventions in the taking of human life. He said these are memories burned on his brain that he would like to remove if he possibly could and when they described what happened and these doctors wanted to see an autopsy they said there are so many dead that they had to step over the bodies just to get into the autopsy room, the bodies of the dead that had been removed yet and when they watched an autopsy take place, the military doctor opened the chest of a young man who had died and there were his lungs heavy in his body filled with fluid, totally useless. The man essentially died because his lungs were filled with fluid and a doctor who had been with nothing said this must be a plague. He could not believe it. Host in your books you have these, the bottom picture there. Guest these are one of the samples of lung tissues and people of 1918. You might think what was this virus and what did we ever know and what was miraculous was there is a military warehouse, people described as being like a library of congress of the dead darted by Abraham Lincoln. Every time a military doctor doesnt autopsy is supposed to put some of the tissue and the medical records in this warehouse. There was evil who died of that flu in 1918 and at the time, doctors little snippets of the lung tissue, dipped in them in formaldehyde and sent them to the warehouse and doctor kevin berger at walter reed finally the end of this century put in a requisition for people who had died of that flu asking for the lung tissue where it had had some viral things in it and those that you just saw our of the little pieces of paraffin wax with the lung tissue in it and inside that lung tissue after all these years there is still that flu virus of 1918. Go back to this topology institute out hereat walter reed , had you been there . Yes i have. 3 million samples . They are in boxes and jars and things and its this big sort of corrugated metal warehouse and with cement floors and i guess to protect it from burning down. And they had these big racks of box after box and theres a man there already and his job is to say i think id like to get some lung samples from what was asked for in this case was people who died of influenza in 1918 and who died very very quickly because they didnt want the person, they got the flu virus and lingered the virus that was left in their lungs and died and so theres actually the science had been computerized so we can get a computer printout of where to look, he goes over with his ladders and his books he takes down his boxes and theres cancer tumors, their brain tissue, all sorts of stuff in that warehouse and this was lung tissue. You said Abraham Lincoln started, there are samples from back in the civil war. Right after the civil war and from then on a been steadily accumulating red just like a pack rats paradise and was a brilliant idea because when they started this would know what you would use it for . The idea that in 1918 no one ever found human influenza virus so the idea that somebody someday come back and make some use of this material was just brilliant. Host im jumping way ahead, did they know what caused the influenza of 1918 . They know it was a flu virus. At this point they had three lung samples from people who died in 1918 who have those in them. Getting them out was pushing the limits of molecular biology and it takes a long time. A described like putting together a detailed mosaic piece by piece. They had gotten three of the 18 completely put together now. A are choosing them in order of the likelihood that they think they are going to get an easy answer that made that virus so deadly but the first three have told them that the flu virus thats related to bird virus, they have not provided the answer yet to why it was dangerous. Host a couple questions about the pathology, theres one person that worked there . Guest one person that i saw that im certain of. Host did you get a sense that theres a lot ofinterest or traffic . Guest i was the only person there. Host howbig a facility is it . Guest it was a big facility and warehouse in maryland , just over the border. One of the things i must admit when i picked this book up i didnt expect to get was i have a drama and theres personal stories in there that are fairly dramatic red were you surprised about the competition going on find it . By the time i started to write the book i knew there was the story and i read books for myself, i read fiction. And i like, i would write a book unless i thought there was a story because you just have toafter after chapter like a textbook , for me its not something i would be. So thats what appealed to me was that there was drama there. There was competition and it shared all the strength and weaknesses of this identity method. What book is this . Its a noncommercial looks, i guess commercial . How long did you work for the New York Times denmark. 12 years. Where you were you before that . How did you get the science . You dont even want to know, i want to be a writer, i really did but i was studying science this time i was attending graduate school, i was in mathematics i was going to get a masters instead so i just decided everyplace in the washington area, i couldnt just move around so easily and tried to get a writing job. Science gave me a job that was not as a writer, it was as a boring job collecting reviewers for management and i said ill take this job but you have to understand that im doing it to sort of work my way into the writing department. I took the job and shortly after i took it i said id like to write an article for you on my own time for free, take it or leave it. Just do you mind if i do it and they said okay and they published it and that was i how i did it. Host where is your hometown . Where did you go to school . Guest university of maryland and i spent a half a year at a graduate program in microbiology before i decided that was not the way you. Science magazine isbought by what kind of person . Guest its a subscription magazine and its scientists and policymakers but they have a new section is written for anybody to read. The idea is to write something so that a physicist who wants to know molecular biology doesnt have to know any of the stuff that led up to discovery,its just like writing a normal news story, all they have to do is read it and understand why its exciting. Host who owns it . Guest the National Organization for advancement of science. Its like science is a big competitor, its a british magazine, very similar. It has a new section written by scientists. Host back to 1918, was this a more devastating flu than the average one that we hearabout all the time even today . Theres no comparison. When you think about the number of dead, 1. 5 million americans have died. And in a typical flu season 20,000 by and most of them are very old or have some other sort of chronic ethical condition weakens them. Here 99 percent were under age 65 so it was a very peculiar death curve shaped like a w. The very young died and between the ages of 20 and 40 died in flu season in the middle of the w and at the end some of the old people died. I like to ask you to read page 25 if you dont mind, thomas will be, the authors brother i guess died of this area and then thomas wolfe, where did he write this russian mark. Was writing look homeward angel and i asked a number of people and they said the subscription of his brothers death was actually his brothers real name and it was the prescription was not fictionalized, thatwas what happened when his brother died of the flu. Would you mind reading thisand tell us why you put this in . Guest i think that when i talk about the flu or when people who are living today talk about the flu, its almost impossible for us to imagine what it was like. I tried to put the words and the people who had been there because when youve been there and seen it, it has a sort of an emotion that we cant, i cant capture and i dont think anybody else ive spoken to has been able to capture so the reason i put the thomas wolfe inscription is was of all the inscriptions i read about people dying of the flu, this one touched me. Almost brought me to tears. It was the saddest thing and you can imagine yourself in that room watching somebody die like this and it was one of those moments that i cant forget this and thats why i put it in. Wolf came home to a depth rush, his mother was lying in a sick room upstairs while thefamily waited for what they feared was inevitable. Wolf went upstairs to the gray shaded light of the room where ben lay. And he saw in that moment and starring recognition that his beloved 26yearold brother was dying. Heresthe quote of how he died. Bens long thin body late three quarters covered by the bedding. Its outline was bitterly twisted below and an attitude of struggle and torture. It seemed not to belong to him but was somehow distorted and detached as if it belonged to a beheaded criminal and the foul yellow of his face had turned red area was lit by two red flags of fever, his stiff beard was growing and wassomehow horrible , youll recall the corrupt vitality of hair which came from a rotting corpse and then lips were twisted in a contrasting grimace of torture and strangulation above his wife, goodlooking teeth and inch by inch he gasped for air into his lungs and the sound of this gasping, rapid and unbelievable filling the room and orchestrating every moment in it gave to the scene its final note of horror. The next day proved delirious. By 4 00 the appearance of death wasnear. Then ben had brief periods of unconsciousness, though most of the time he was delirious. His breathing was easier. He sung snatches of popular songs, some old and forgotten and adages of his childhood but always he returned to his quiet humming of a popular song of wartime , brief sentimental but now tragically moving as a babys prayer at twilight and then ben sank into unconsciousness. His eyes were almost close, their gray flickr was gold coated with a scene of insensibility and death. He lay quietly upon his back very straight without sign of pain and with a curious upturned trust of his face his mouth was firmly shut. Will stayed with them that night fervently praying even though his eyes did not believe in god or prayer wherever you are be good to bentonite, show him the way. Wherever you are be good to bentonite, show him the way. He lost count of minutes and hours and heard only a feeble rattle of breath. Wolf fell asleep and woke suddenly calling his family at the end was nine. Ben lay still. His body appeared to grow rigid before them had been in a lastgasp then drew upon the air in a long and powerful respiration. His gray eyes opened, filled with a terrible vision of all life in the one moment. He seemed to rise forward from his pillows without support. A flame, a light, a glory and so then passed instantly,s wonderfully and unafraid. Does he say in the book what his brother did . I dont know. You say i think another statistic that Something Like 25, 28 percent of the American People got flu that year. Guest its an amazing statistic because usuallyonly a small percentage get the flu. Everybody says they have it and they have some other disease but this was an infectious flu. It spread so quickly throughout the population that people couldnt even understand how it was moving so fast and it was 25 times more deadly than normal flu and it seemed to be killing young people which is why they had such amazing deaths. Heres a photograph from 1976 of president fordand his doctor getting theshot. Whats the story behind this . 1976 scientists wereafraid the flu was coming back again. They thought the flu was related to a flu that also infected pigs at that time. Because around the same time people were dying of the 1918 flu pigs in huge numbers got influenza and started to die and people gave it to pigs or pigs gave it to people but scientists became convinced that the 1918 flu was related to a swine flu and in 1976 a young 18yearold soldierwent out on a march with his unit. He was feeling sick with the flu but he wanted to join them read on a five mile hike he collapsed and was brought back to the hospital and died. He had swine flu they finally discovered. The young and healthy guy eating a swine flu and dying. The very end of the flu season, it takes six months to make enough vaccine to protect thepopulation so president ford asked the most eminent doctors and flu experts what should we do . Do you see lets wait until next season and see if theres a problem or do you say this one death is scary enough that we got to try and protect everybody and take a swine flu vaccine and get it out to the entire nation . The decision was i think understandable, they said lets take a chance because if we get sprung and the flu is back again people are going to be dying, we will have no way of protecting them so there was a decision to make an Unprecedented Campaign to immunize all americans against swine flu. It turned out it was kind of a campaign that didnt work too well and president ford in order to try to encourage people to get the vaccine was photographed in his own flu shots. Host 130 million and it didnt turn out so well. It turned out there was no swine flu epidemic. This guy got swine flu and no one knows where he got it from you it was totally unclear how he got it. People seemed to have antibodies indicating they may have had one and recovered but nobody died except for him to read nobody was getting sick from the flu so they had a vaccine against the flu strain that was not causing any sort of problems and around the same time as everybody started getting immunized, people started saying the vaccine was actually killing people, making them sick so this was, there was a lot of fear this vaccine and i think that wanted people to this day because today you still hear people say flu vaccine, they never get the right flu strain that is worse than the disease and the vaccine can make you sick and a lot of that got started after 1976. Where in the flu season as i record this through february. How do they know who determines first of all what shot you get . A couple months ago . Theres a group of experts that there is an International Surveillance that goes on all the time and what they look at is they say whats the flu strain thats going to become the predominant one at the end of the Previous Year and what flu strains are appearing elsewhere in the world because what happens is what the flu does it every year it comes through a population and it burns itself out red 1918 did that to and everybody who could be infected and then whos been exposed to it and then it mutates. It changes a little bit and comes back again and people are vulnerable to it, it will infect them. You say that blonde on province above hong kong in other china, did all flu emanate from there . Theres people that say every major pandemic around the world in this century has begun in Southern China and theres a reason why they think this is the hotspot of the flu and thats because in order to really sweep the world you have to get a flu thats so different from anything youve seen that virtually everybody in the world is susceptible to and one way of doing that is to get a flu that seems to have not been seen byhuman beings. And birds get infected with the flu all the time, they dont even get sick. And bird flu is different than ones that infect people and pigs can be infected with both bird flu and human flu so it can be a mixing bowl and come out with a flu that has bird characteristics and human characteristics and can infect people. Host outcome pigs and not cows . Guest dont know, cant answer that. Host its only pigs. Guest its not only pigs. I cant tell you its only pigs, i think so. Host if it is i have a big thing. You kill the virus when you cook the pig west and mark you dont have to worry about inbreeding. Before you cook the pig, instead, you dont have to worry and you keep the pig, is not going to get in your lungs but anyway, its dead so in Southern China what they do is say this very clever way, they grow the rice and they have docs on their rice patties and the ducks only eat the rice and then when they harvest the rice they put the duck back among the rest of the farm animals including the pig. The pig will not get the duck flu virus and people who live close to the pigs, people can get the virus from the pig so you can end up with a new flu starting their, spreading around the world to read this is interesting for 1918, its not clear where the 1918 flu started but there is at least one researcher named kenny from hong kong who has this idea that the 1918 flu started earlier in Southern China he says he has historical record indicate that people in Southern China were getting sick something that looks like the flu and the chinese laborers were sent to europe so he thinks that Southern China started the 1918 flu like every other majorpandemic. Just three years ago you say hong kong and a big air in 1997. Do we know about that here . I knew about it but i didnt pay a lot of attention because i thought scientists were overreacting, i no longer think that but at the time what happened was there was some flu in hong kong that seemed to be killing young people, they were getting sick and dying. There was one young boy who died. He got sick and he died and it was very strange because it doesnt normally happen and there was a big investigation what kind of flu this could have turned out he had a bird flu and thats really weird because bird flu dont normally infect people so immediately the our alarm bells go off, is this a flu is going to infect people and is this a pandemic scientists always have that on their minds. When it turned out nobody else except for this boy seemed to be getting the flu , nobody in his school, it was just a little kid and nobody knew where he got. There was this big investigation and nobody knew how he got the bird flu and the hospital workers died in the hospital, nobody knew so scientists said we dont know what it was but luckily its gone nowhere and a few months later abel started showing up in the hospital of hong kong, young people dying of the flu and it turned out to be the bird flu and that was really terrifying because it looked like something was happening in hong kong and the International Team of investigators along with the very able investigators from hong kong did an extensive investigation and what they discovered was it seemed there was a flu that was infecting chickens in hong kong and it was jumping from chickens to people which is really unusual and it was, it could be deadly. It was a flu that was even killing chickens and they dont normally die of flu so the big fear was if they go into dont do anything that this flu would then infect a person and that person would also get a human flu in their lungs, the two would merge that would come a birdlike flu that could infect people and we would have 1918 all over again and in order to protect world, Hong Kong Government ordered that every chicken inhong kong. Over 1 million chickens because in hong kong people like to buy their chickens at these markets where they are killed in front of your eyes so you dont just go to a Grocery Store and buy adead chicken, you buy a live chicken. They have these wet watchers were all these chickens are in cages and they ordered every single chicken killed. I think now at the time i thought it was weird, now i think it was a good idea. How do we get the flu . We get it when somebody around us as it. Host how to start, the first time somebody gets the flu , do they eat it . They breathe it in or they get the virus on their hands or they touch their nose and mouth. It has to enter through the lungs and usually you breathe it and the reason you tend to get in the winter is because you are inside theres more and theres morepeople coughing and sneezing and you live longer in the air. So we get it in our winter in the Southern Hemisphere they get in their winter. Is there any way other than the flu shot to protect yourself from getting the flu . You could barricade yourself somewhere you get it from the air,theres not much you can do. You can stay away from people, wash your hands a lot. Mainly you need a flu shot. So you think flu shots are a good idea. I never had one until this year and i had one and i made my wholefamily get them. I have sixchildren , 18 and 21. Theyre in college and i said i want you to get a flu shot and call me and tell me you got it and i thought that was incredibly ridiculous and they said mom, we got our flu shots tonight. Your husband got his . What you do . Hes amathematician in philadelphia , nonprofit. We live in princeton and between new york and philadelphia. When you have this idea, what year was it . 1998. When you first called, did you call your agent . Guest my agent called me, i have an aggressive agent read John Brockman area and he called me and said this flu stuff, which is what he typically does and i said i guess it i think it might be really interesting. I didnt know the full story than what ive seen enough pieces just in general reporting for the New York Times that it made me think there was a real story to tell. A story that would have a beginning and middle and i was hoping an end so that you would be able to read it you were reading i hope anovel and not just like reading a textbook. When did you know you had something unique . When i got a contract with denmark. Host what i mean is when you started to do your research. Guest the virus in alaska, thats when i realized there was a story was what had happened was, that was in 1950 i believe, 1951 when we first went to alaska. Host theres a picture of it which is from where . Theres two pictures. The one in, thats the same year. That in alaska. In the alaskan and below that is in his laboratory. Host what is he digging up there mark. Amassed for almost every eskimo is in a tiny village, a remote Lutheran Mission had died of the flu they been buried all in one place. About 80. Is the whole village gone . 90 percent of the adults. In 1980. And who is johan holden. Hes a biologist. He came to this country as a medical student and this was going to study for one year in iowa. He came here and hes a real adventurer so he decided what he would do he and his wife for he started to school he would travel to every state and all 50 states so they got the car and they started driving around and they ended up in alaska and while he was in alaska he met a paleontologist and he and his wife spent the summer with this paleontologist next year in medical school the visiting biologist said that was a terrible tragedy in 1918 and the only way were ever going to know what happened is if somebody, if you can find somebody buried in the permafrost and their lungs are still frozen and maybe you can get the virus out and find out what was so johan said i know how to do this. I know this paleontologist. I can find out where the eskimo villages work and get a map with the permafrost and find out where where their grades and i could go up there and actually find a flu victim so he did do this. It was an amazing adventure. It was this young student, he went to alaska. He had three possible villages where he thought he could find some bodies from the 1918 flu and the first one was right and the next one wasnt right and the third village the mast grave was exactly right and he said the eskimos there, there was a terrible tragedy in 1918 and id like your permission to dig in this brave and to try to find some flu victims so i can get the virus to make a vaccine and you will never have to suffer like this again. They told him it was okay to do it read the story of how he did it is an adventure in itself but he did manage to get some lung tissue still frozen from flu victims in 1918 and bring it back with him to iowa where he tried to grow it and thats what that second picture of him in the lab was. Today its horrifying to think someone was trying to grow the 1918 virus but he hadnt thought about it very carefully about the consequences. He was growing it in chicken eggs that to this day have the viruses and he kept injecting chicken eggs with the lung tissue open to grow the virus that Nothing Happened so he concluded it was dead. He never forgot that 1918 flu and always swore that one day he would go back there with when science was advanced enough that he could do something with the tissue and he would try again. Host so we got the 1918 flu itself killed half 1 million americans in 1951 trip by the scientist. He is from 51 to present, where is helocated . These apologists in San Francisco climbing mountains, still being adventurous but always thinking about this flu and reading everything he could about influenza and molecular biology and wondering when would the time be right for him to go back to alaska to do something about this virus. He was interested in influence up because they had questions for other people in the military. Her to two get some answers. Veterinarians around the world were dying because of this. They were good at doing it. They said i wonder what else we could do. Thats what led him to the flu virus. In 1995 . A big Pathology Institute with 3 million specimens. He hadnt gone for anything. He didnt even know he did. Thats right. He said i have got a sample from the warehouse, i can pull these out. I thought i think i can get to another sample. He says it was crazy, he looked back and said yes, im really interested. He said okay, i sent it in the reason he didnt want to go out that way was because hed been working 25 years building a replica of a 13th century norwegian cabin. He wants to send to alaska. Doctor, how . He was 71, i believe when he went up there. Theres a picture missing from your book. Kristi duncan. Right. One a picture. The problem was cap writing a letter for the pictures she wanted to have some sort of control over it. Backtrack was amazing. Understand what she was worried about, shes worried about everything to begin with but as a journalist, you cant let somebody control what said in a book. I wanted to be absolutely accurate. I would check anything. I cant tell you you can write tell us what you look like. Shes not white warm care, shes very kind. Capital . About 5foot tall, shes little. She i think shes very young. She lives in ontario. She recently got married, she was with her parents. Shes very tense, very tense looking. Shes very passionate. She wrote a book called americas forgotten pandemic 1918 and she was moved to tears by the story and she said were she living . Canada. Shes a canadian . What is your go to school for . I dont. Know you mentioned in your book. She said i think i can find somebody there to get at it. My primary concern, shes brought up by herself and not find anybody. She was never going to tell a soul. She dont want to be part of the media circus. She wanted to make this something that everybody knew about, they would all understand the urgency during this so she could do it. I think i remember, she started in the 1990s i cant know exactly. The article came out than. And 97. She had done it before or after, did she know about the article . She didnt know about that, she knew jeffrey was onto something while she was there. There some kind of committee they had. To try to get money and is a big meeting there were sing ok okay, she thought the bodies of seven miners on a Remote Island off of norway. What she find him . There was a coincidence, she learned it was an area and she started investigating to see if there might be bodies there. She found out the seven miners worked in the winter and mind on her island and had gotten the flu on the boat on the way over and died. So than they were buried and she learned she got permission to dig into that space and get those bodies. She was raising money for the governments, private industry. Prior the canadian asking institute to help here in the United States to do that . She was looking for money and one of the Group Members was an american so he was like the lead person trying to ask for money. How much money did she need . I dont know, 720 and she got she got money from the british,. All along, jeffrey has discovered it didnt hurt to have our samples. Its not like it was wrong, she didnt know that they were during and he tried to tell her they have three samples. She said which samples didnt count because theres formaldehyde, maybe somebody happening to the virus. She doesnt think thats what he was trying to tell her. She went ahead anyway and she did. Not sure of the timing, he went back. They did dig into a grave again and got a sample, he divided into four pieces but he didnt want and preservatives, he sent it and for everything done on the scalp so he decided its a precious sample and he didnt want to just trust. This is a picture of him here a few years ago where he went back, 51, went back there because of the Science Magazine article. Here he is. Back on the gravesite again, getting another one example. He divided into four pieces from one ups, one federal express, used the mail for different ways. He started working on it. Duncan with her multimillion dollar expeditions went off to this island off the coast of norway with the media intel and film crews. This is a ten camera crew. Theres a documentary and it was a big media extravaganza. The word suspicious, what she was doing with all of the Media Attention and the money involv involved, controversial . Theres a lot of controversy all along. Theres a lot of media involvement. I hate to say this but they think its suspicious when its blown up like that. All the talk about safety, started seeing a lot of people. What happened was, there was animosity a lot of people angry with her. Duncan was, very passionate and emotional person, she dressed in a way who doesnt like a scientist come up with high heels and stuff. That made people think she was serious about trying to find fight the virus. I think she really hoped she would be able to find fight the buyers. Jeffrey was on a committee with her . They find the body, get the sample, send it back. He already had that sample and he was on the committee with her. The problem is, he was think we have another sample but they said they were going to be the ones who made the announcement. He said he wasnt going to do it, if they could decide how to release the information. He is waiting for them to give them the goahead and say were not there, without new samples. He did on his own, he did very quickly. Was in a one room schoolhouse on an air mattress ready to do it. He got the permission to escalate and 1951, he did all by himself, this time he had help. Go back to norway . Right. They had more of everything. What year . I think euros 98. None of me colleagues everybody left. They said you are about to. They started and every day she was successful. What happened was they had done elaborate work ahead of time. When they started, they found out the minors were frozen. She said we have gotten it. She basically had skeletons and there was bone tissue. They said there is no longer there. You have to of lung tissue . No, its by the buyers. I heard all the buyers in the brain. However, there is one thing about the virus. Some people who thought maybe 1918 flu virus has caused an epidemic of parkinsons disease. There was a parkinsons in 1918 but they were the people who supposedly got it after 1918. So everybody is getting the flu and parkinsons disease, is there a causeandeffect . But one thing that is interesting, there is one where they said they are going to dock the ships here. They escape the flu. The people who didnt get parkinsons, but nobody has ever heard of the flu virus, its using enzymes not found in the brain. As far as anybody has ever known or been able to show, the flu virus does not live outside the lung. If you get the lung tissue, he should not get the flu virus. Was there a documentary made . Yes. They could show the actual among . No. They showed the whole, its a huge deal on this, it turned out to also include back. They made it into a documentary. From the very beginning, they said lets discuss this possibility and keep the cameras rolling. It didnt work so well, the documentary became a documentary about the waist. Duncan was an International Experts in the whole world was watching. Did you reach any conclusions about the way money was generated . Was very interesting to me the most exciting work on getting this done by the outsiders, they were doing it in a very quiet way. Theres really interesting to me that you didnt move these elaborate and expensive apparatus, dig into a gravesite. I have another personal question because you may have this, who is he . British man on duncans team and he began to exchange a lot of facts duncan, disturbing his, her phone calls to him or so personal and emotional and also, according to his daughter, and his wife was getting a little bit concerned. Duncans marriage broke up and i asked if by that time had not work. He had a falling out with her. I think he still remembers the team but he no longer is, whatever their relationship its and as far as i know, anything other than just the telephone calls but its not what it used to be. Before i ask about the centers for Disease Control, what is your conclusion up to now about whats going on . Was all this worth it . Yes, i think so. Every time they say only going to say it . We say yes, we just dont know when. We dont know whats going to happen. When the flu virus will mutate. Its important to understand how flu virus can turn into a killer. If they cant find out, at the very least, they will be able to do experiment seconds i maybe theres 100 changes from maybe theres no one change, maybe theres hundred sprint they can say what does this do . What can you do to protect yourself . How to stop the riots . Whats the difference from 19 in 2000 if this pandemic were to start up . Two big differences. One, vaccines. 1918, there were no vaccines. Theres a fear that everybody had the flu virus coming. They have to six months notice to make a vaccine. People think scientists would vaccinate. They want a sixmonth note for everybody. They well, no they may n not. You have to start somewhere. Not everybody will get it but if they can get a vaccine going as fast as they can, could protect most of the world from up virus. Stop the pandemic from starting. If people believe the science of vaccines. The second big difference is antibiotics. A lot of people in 1918 died, many died because of the flu itself. Others got very ill from the flu and while they were sick, he got into their lungs and they died of bacterial infection. Died back then too. We had antibiotics now that we didnt happen. Its a huge difference in the death toll. Nancy cox, who is she . Shes a researcher of the centers for Disease Control. The National Center where they look at the disease detectives mimic having a place is a . Zika place here, a campus big buildings. Coupons are . Federal government i dont think its enough. You think it should be more . I think so, yes. She got a call in 1987 . When you start the panic . She started to panic as soon as she heard there was something killing kids. She got a call when she was on her vacation in wyoming and she was in tears growth she was really worried. You say in the book she was awake many nights. She was. What are they worried about . You have to get out fast and you have to find out what is it . How is it spreading . How easily is it spreading . Where is the buyers . Is only hong kong . Is elsewhere . Should you do . Should you get vaccines made . As the cpc or frontline defense . It is. Theyre the ones who look at aids, ebola, everything you worry about. Go back to the difference between 1918 flu in the flu we have this year. What happened in the body . Was very quick, almost overnight. They died because their lungs filled with fluid. A young person who starts to feel sick and with in hours a day, goes dark because their blood doesnt get enough oxygen. One person said mahogany spots on his cheekbone and the darkcolored spreads. Today what you see, you feel very ill and some are dying but nobody has instant that like they did i surprised what you have fun compared what to start with . Yes. Part of the reason i really enjoyed working on this book. The more i worked onn it, the stories kept Getting Better and better in growing and growing. Scientists were extraordinary generous with information. People were amazing. The people i reference in the book a lot in 1976, i was trying to get reference to 1976, finally he semi anemia sing were to be in my living room until you sent that book. Give me documents, reconstruct what happened, how they felt, what they said and why. They were so generous. It was amazing, looking for Old Newspaper articles, old photographs and documents, he did everything he could to help me reconstruct a story and go beyond. We are out of time, theres a lot more on this. Here it is, a book called flu by gina, a story of the great influenza pandemic of 1918 the search for the virus. Thank you very much. Week thanks this month, featuring tv programs, showcasing whats available every weekend on cspan2. Tonight, peter bestsellers, first, Nicholas Kristof on the about issues facing the working class in rural america. They were interviewed by democratic senator jeff merkley. Then tara recalls growing up in idaho mountains in her introduction to formal education at age 17. In her book, educated, a memoir. After that, turning. Usa founder charlie in his book, the martyr doctrine on the new conservative agenda. Watch book to be this weekend every weekend and on cspan2. Television has changed since cspan began 41 years ago our Mission Continues to provide an unfiltered view of government. Already, this year, weve bright primary election coverage. Not the federal response to the coronavirus. You can watch all of cspans Public Affairs programming on television, online or listen on our free radial app. Be part of the National Conversation cspan daily questions internal program. Or our social media scene, cspan, created by private industry, americas Cable Television company is a Public Service from a brought to you by your television provider. When it comes to trying to keep people from gathering together, how close are we to remote voting in the building behind me is one chamber closer to happening in the other . No. It doesnt seemed like it. Theres archive. There, why this virus affects people different . This virus is much more than many other viruses that we know and number two, it could be much more serious and deadly than other virus. You have any way of pushing the idea of recovery preparedness up into the organization its more of a top priority rather than second most important priority . I was smiling as you say that because im glad you said its the second highest priority, i would argue is often times dead last. Share your experience dealing with the coronavirus pandemic and ask as parts your question. During the conversation every morning on washington journal which starts at 7 00 a. M
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