[inaudible] [applause] moderator Susan Eisenhower. You dont want to follow the steps when you enter. Lessee they told me left. [laughter] karl you know the distancing right and left on you . You are their right. [laughter] snack welcome everybody i am Susan Eisenhower and it is a terrific pleasure to be here today to have a conversation with doctor lynn cheney and carl rove. This is a real honor to me and have an intimate conversation with the executive power in the United States to actually wield power alongside of the president of the United States and also to talk about what it is like to be behind the scenes. Let me just say very quickly, if i cough i am not sick. Way you can back from rouen with that cough. [laughter] you feel right . Are you little warm your little warm, lindy wanted change . I think you women should be here and i should be out. I had to clean up some of his the other day and inhaled some fire smoke. Any case, dont be alarmed if i find myself coughing. Let me just say that it has been a thrill to talk to you again and i had some experience as a child with what it is like to be in the company who wields enormous power, to observe both the pressures of the job, along with the loneliness you might say of power and obviously it comes with privilege but also great sacrifice. Lynn, you have said over time, that you have carved out a remarkable career for yourself. But this proximity of power probably started for you when your husband, dick cheney became chief of staff to gerald ford. And i did not see him for two years. That is just sort of the way it is, but i was so interested in what he was doing that he learned to come home at night and tell me what he had done all day. So that was really fascinating inside look. You and i were joking before, if you are the president of the United States, youre called potus if you are the first lady of the United States youre called flautist, first lady of the United States. If you are the wife of the Vice President i finally had to shut it off before they did it in public. So have you been tempted to turn into a twitter handle . [laughter] i dont think i really feel comfortable twitter, im always afraid im to send something i dont know i sense and its not a good idea. Good points, carl, youve been an and norma sleep arvo position in the white house. I have to ask both of you dont mind, i think we are in badly need of humor today. I dont know if ill be agree but i would like to know what the funniest and strangest thing that ever happened to you while you are in the white house arena . Me . Yes you. There were a lot of them but i still a car and i think that was the highlight. Now is that funny customer. It was enormously funny, because i had this colleague al hubbard, head of the National Economic council. Originally from jackson tennessee so he spoke with this southern accent. Sort of like sounded like a slow minded guy from jackson, tennessee. Hiding the fact that he had an harvard mba and started at a very young age with a private Equity Partnership in indianapolis that was wildly successful. Basically this strategy was, by the last buggy whip manufacturers in america consolidated a make a lot of money and he really did. He stepped aside from that he had a really nice bmw, really nice. If you are at the white house, you are spending a lot of time in meetings. I had a meeting across the way from the west wing and the Old Executive Office building. It ended early and i had a few extra minutes before my next appointment. I was walking down the stairs and across whats called old executive drive. Its the street between the west wing and the Eisenhower Executive Office building. Rights by the entrance to the basement of the west wing, hubbard had parked his car. And i notice he left his keys in there. [laughter] so i got in it and moved it up west executive drive. Now remember, to park on west executive drive you have to be a senior aid to the president , you go through three checkpoints manned by people with automatic weapons, your cars swept their bombs and you go over some advices embedded in the concrete i dont know what it does, but it does it. So its very secure. I took the car and i drove it up about west executive drive about 75 yards. But after 911 they had the sniffer trucks, they look like ice cream trucks are parked at the four corners of the complex. They sampled the air for chemical and biological agents. It was just large enough that when i parked the car behind it in the vacant space, you couldnt see it from the west executive entrance. So i wasnt there, but i have eyewitnesses who said at the end of the day, hubbard came out, took a look around, couldnt see his car, took out his flip phone, hit the speed dial to his assistant and said my car, my car is gone theyve stolen my car he found it, so the next morning course of the senior staff meeting, with sort of a town common edging tone, but nonetheless goodnatured he accused me of stealing his car. Big mistake. So i kept stealing his car. And id work it out so that one time i worked it out with the secret service of that i it by their loading dock. Can you imagine that cult mr. Hubbard, your cars blocking the loading dock and we are expecting a load of surfacetoair missiles, would you please move it. This went on for a great deal time and was enormously fun. Every time i would steal his car he would accuse me of at the senior staff meeting. But after the first time, i would always get somebody else to be in the car with me. Seventy said you stole my car, i really dont appreciate out to al i dont know what youre talking about, because i saw somebody else get your car, which was true. Because i had to make it in the car with me. So long story short, the final week im at the white house, we are flying back from reno, nevada, where the president spoke to the american legion. We finally had television on air force one, and i am watching television and im sort of mystified because there is a camera at the corner of the white house which called pebble beach. When you see the north portico of the white houses is being shot from pebble beach. Only the cameras not look at the white house it swiveled down looking down executive drive minutes looking at a car that has messages spelled out and posted notes on all of the windows, forming letters and words in someones wrap the car in industrial cellophane. Giant sheets of industrial cellophane and decorated it with stuffed animals. [laughter] and its my car [laughter] cnn is saying we dont know is going on on the west executive drive, but someones car has been whose car is that . Eventually its mental and Good Authority at the senior visor karl roves car we dont know whats going on. So i get back to the white house at culpepper and i say fantastic man, you paid me back. For every time im still in your car you paid me back. I got the white house photographer from west exactly want to get a picture of you me and your handiwork. First devices had data but finally he fences up that he had done it. And i said look this is the greatest thing youve ever done. No one has ever come close to this we have to have a photograph. We said worth through the white house and people come spilling out of the ike people come spilling out of the west wing, its about 6 00 oclock in the evening, and people start applauding hubbard and hes having a hard time with his camera people are coming out in their applauding hubbard any starting to get in scanning say yeah i did this its really fantastic really fabless. A block to uniformed officers of the secret service and put him in handcuffs. And then the white house photographer takes the picture. [laughter] and it really creeps hubbard out its one of my favorite photographs keeps them creeps them out its in my bedroom. There is a picture of hubbard put in handcuffs in his leg and my really in trouble customer is this funny . And these two officers these were my people. They are putting him in handcuffs and im like oh buddy you got me but i just got your back. [laughter] its good to know there is a sense of humor admitted all of the pressure. You have to. The white house and the Vice President s house, these are very formal places. Theres a reason why there is a downstairs official area and the living quarters upstairs. Because there really is a difference between the public life in the private life. What about you, lynne, im sure you have many funny stories but have you had strange ones as well from that period . This is funny and strange. We spent a lot of time at camp david as carl knows after 911. It was the undisclosed location. And we had our kids, its the same story that you find joy in life even though you are in a dreadful time. We also had our dog a big labrador, yellow lab named dave. Dave was the love of our life. So we took them everywhere at camp david. Dogs are allowed everywhere camp david. Except one day okay karl i cant help me is that laura where we eat . Okay laurel lodge. Dick watched in and you dave with him. There are people around and varney, who is the president s dog, and the kind of mean little scotty. Mean little faster used to bite me all the time. I wish the president never would had varney. Of varney was a troublesome dog. Dave thought he was probably a squirrel because he was kind of little. We shot out after him. Varney being chased by dave is going round and round this table at high speed while bird watching and the president walked in he says what is going on here . And dick, knowing this probably was not a good thing to have dave chasing varney, pulled a donut or something off the breakfast tray said dave comiccon. And dave always came for food. So he got the donut, got dave out of there. We went back to our lodging and ten minutes maybe, othello knocks the door, he is in full dress uniform, hes the Camp Commander and he said sir, the dick dave is not allowed in laurel again. Hed been sent by the president to tell us not to bring dave to laurel again. But the president was really nice about dave but not about dave chasing varney. That was not good. Pets play in a normals role. During my grandparents tenure in the white house, they brought heidi, a weimer honor, and then heidi had an accident on one of the rugs and got sent into exile. Ive also got to say, one unknown fact about the white house is the Burial Ground of our pets parakeet. He was on the thirdfloor name pete and he died so we were allowed to give them a dignified burial in the rose garden. My siblings and i put up a little pete, rest in peace. But they took it down to mow the lawn. You got to wonder, roosevelt was the first guy had the west wing also had a gigantic collection animals. His children he had in normas collection and a several of them died during the days in the white house. You have to wonder if the burial locations of their favorite pets. Most of them are like coarse im going to have them buried at the white house. We have t should have an archaeologist go over the grounds. The problem is you cant go back and visit the graveside. Except dave is buried the Vice President s residence. And we are sure we know the site is. So if we are ever invited back to the bpr we will go visit dear dave. Does he have a headstone . No he thought as a little too showy. Okay im feeling better. He has one in our hearts. You know the apropos of that, one of the interesting things to me was how important to both the president s residence and the white house are to the political and policy business of the government. In both the cheneys and the bushes were enormously good at entertaining a lot of people both formally and more important informally. whether you have there are holiday parties that were clearly geared towards, you know, their official business and their friends. And it really was important how many a time, you know, youd have some hardnosed democrat whod be smoke a cigar on the truman balcony, and their spouse would be jumping up and down on the lincoln bed. It helped establish a sense of community. After we left the white house, i cannot tell you how many Democrat Members of congress have told me if youd have told me id have spent more time with your guy than my guy, id be surprised. And they did. The president and Vice President both knew from having been at the white house from chief of staff and the president as having been governor of a democratic majority in the legislature how important it was to do what you could informally to reduce some of that tension. Well, i think thats an extremely important point. And i know that its virtually a given that we all recognize that were living in tremendously turbulent and uncertain times. I think we have to all recognize that. But i must say that the 2000s were also very turbulent and uncertain. And, of course, what immediately comes to mind is 9 11. This extraordinary moment in American History when so much changed for this country. I have to ask you, lynne, what was that like, to actually be trying to, first of all, you were in a high ranking position during those years at the National Endowment for the humanities, and i wonder what that was like also to be supporting your husband and to be, you know, a semiboll of this country symbol of this country during that tumultuous time. You are such a nice interviewer, and im going to make a public confession that i have never made before. I was getting my hair done. [laughter] and the nice fellow who was doing my hair came out and he said, you know, a plane just flew into the world trade center. I said, ooh, what a weird accident. And then a few minutes later he came back and said theres a second one. So, of course, the secret service hustled me off into a car. And you could see smoke from the car. It was the pentagon burning, but you dont know what it is. You just see it coming up from over the buildings. Un explicably to this day, they took me to the white house, which everyone else had just evacuated. [laughter] but it was, you know, such a memorable day being done, called the peocc. To be in the peocc and watching the country be run, watching manny lujan shut down all the planes in the United States and, you know [inaudible] knorr etta whos a good friend to this day. Thank you the, karl. Condi rice was there. I dont think you you were off with the president , i think. Yeah. But it was the same experience karl had only more serious. On the way there are a bunch of cabinets along the way, and you watched secret Service Opening the cabinets and grabbing very large guns, you know, passing on. Its like a movie. Its, that was stunning, to me. And then when the day was over, i did take notes that day which, you know, were subpoenaed or whatever. But it was okay with me. I didnt write anything secret. And moreover, i was shaking so much, i didnt even know i was, theyre barely legible. But i didnt miss those. At the end of the day, we flew in a helicopter to camp david. And when you lifted off the south lawn, you could see the pentagon. You could see the fire burning. And i couldnt help but think of the burning of washington in madisons time. Washington, of course, then was just a small village, and this was a much greater consequence. But it certainly is a day lodged in memory. What was it like after that . Because you go to an undisclosed location think about that for a moment. Yeah. Just think about that for one moment. The decision is made that the threat is so unknown and so dangerous that the president and the Vice President of the United States cannot be in the same place unless absolutely essential. The Vice President must be taken to an undisclosed location that in the event the president s dead, we have continuity of government. That was the nature of that moment. Incredible. There were worries afterwards about airborne poisons that might get us, anthrax, ricin was talked about. Thats when the sniffer trucks show up. And then they make their way around the white house staff. They walk in and say they have a little device that says to punch a button if it makes a noise. They say if you hear this noise, it means that its a chemical attack. Then they handed me a big plastic bag and said this is your mop suit. Take it out and put on the helmet and the mop suit. If you hear this sound, its a biological attack, and you need to take this needle, stab yourself in the heart and then put yourself in the mop suit. [laughter] and i said, sure, like thats gonna happen. [laughter] and i said my assistant, susan ralston, is standing there listening to this lecture. And i said, okay, wheres her outfit . They said we have a limited number of suits, itll be several days before we have more. And i told handed mine to susan and said, okay, dont tell me when you stab yourself in the heart. [laughter] you know, i dont quite understand that. Could you help us with that . Stabbing ones self in the heart . Its adrenaline. Oh, its adrenaline. You can run then. Yeah. Or maybe it was chemical, you stab yourself biological you have to hope you dont. People who are from their visit to wuhan. [laughter] i cant help but ask, what is it like to be in an undisclosed location . I mean, was it massively isolating . You know, you can be around people all the time and still be very isolated. I was writing. You were writing. And it was actually perfect. I sometimes describe my life as one long interruption. But, you know, this is a Peaceful Place where you could write. Our grandkids were there, our children were there. So, you know, that part of it was not onerous. But knowing the state of the country was. And i was going to say a minute ago, i think i have the distinction of being on [inaudible] longer than any other human being because it was thought to protect you from anthrax and other things that might be in the air, 90 days. And when i tell physicians that, they say, oh, my goodness. [laughter] i think i could still use it to effect. What do you remember about that day, karl . Everything. Everything. Its 8 48 a. M. , im standing 15 feet away from the president outside of emerald Booker Elementary School in sarasota, florida, and the phone rings and its my assistant, susan. She says a plane has flown into the world trade center, we dont know if its commercial or private and i said what else do you have. She said, thats it. Call me back if you have more. And i walked over and told the president of the United States, who was shaking hands with parents and teachers and administrators. About two minutes or three minutes later, condi rice, National Security adviser called with exactly the same sketchy information. And we walked into the Elementary School, walked into a classroom which was designated the staff hold and wherever the president travels, a day or so before he arrives the air force shows up with two large cabinets, plastic cases, and take out a device two devices that look like a cross between a typewriter and a telephone. Theyre called stus. Theyre secure telephones. They plug them into a wall outlet. You hit o and youre talking to a guy under cheyenne mountain, colorado. And they can connect you like that with anybody in the world and secure conversation. So we walk in and there are the stus. Theres the president s doctor, physician and nurse carrying a little cooler full of the president s blood. The National SecurityAdvisers Office had a person on the travel team that day. The c ia briefer was a young guy named mike morrell. Oh, yes. Who later becomes the director of the cia. And the president almost immediately leaves the room and goes into the adjoining room for a reading demonstration with third and fourth graders. Normally theres a Television Set, but for some reason there was no television. So i spent the opening moments of the war on terror running up and down the corridors of this Elementary School until i could find a classroom with a Television Set that was empty. And i went in and it was on the rack so the rug rats couldnt get up and play with it. I pull it out of the wall and ran down the corridor to the staff hold, rolled it in there, plugged it in, plug in the power, but then i had to plug in the cable. And im rolling around on the floor in a suit in a kindergarten classroom and rolling and trying to make a connection, you know, plugging it in. And i remember the first there were three outlets, and the first one, it made the connection and it went [background sounds] so i had to uni screw it, screw it in the second one. When it made a connection it went and a voice says what have we just seen, what have we just seen. Oh, my. Second plane fly into the world said center. And chief of staff andy card at that moment decides he needs to go tell the trillionth president. And i remember that andy walked over to the door. Literally, the president is in the adjoining classroom. And i remember when he got to the door, he paused and it seemed like an eternity. At the time i remember he got to the door and he paused, and i never understood until a couple years ago we happened to be on a panel and he said he suddenly realized he needed to know exactly what he was going to say so that the president would not ask any questions. Oh. So he had to formulate what he was going to say, and you remember the famous photograph where he tells the president about the second plane fly into the Second World Trade Center and that americas under attack. The president had to make a decision, should he stand up and walk out, excuse himself and walk out. He thought the reading demonstration was going to be, you know, a matter of seconds, maybe a minute or two at most from being concluded, so he rather than standing up and excusing himself in the middle of it with 40 tv cameras and stuff, he decided he would wait until it finished, but it actually took four or five minutes. Can you imagine sitting there waiting for this to end knowing that you know . So he got up, quickly excused himself, came to the room. Ive known him a long, long time, but a different guy came walking through that door. There was a certain anxiety in the room, and he came in and he was cold as ice and very calm and low tone of his voice. And he said were at war, give me the director of fbi and the vice vice Vice President. And we jumped on the stus. We got mueller, robert mueller, but we couldnt get Vice President cheney because hes being moved. Secret Service Agents had told him they needed to move him to the bunker. But id had a weird day because i had a weird day because when we were sitting there, the president s sitting at a table meant for kindergarteners. All the adult furniture is gone. So hes it sitting at a little table about this far off the ground writing what hes going to say to the country. And three of us dan bart letter, Ari Fleischer and i are there talking about what hes going to say, and the head of the secret service came in, little guy, not very tall, very slim. Very soft spoken comes in and says, mr. President , we need to get you to air force one is and airborne as quickly as possible because they were afraid that the president s whereabouts were known, and they were worried that somebody was going to crash a plane into the Elementary School, and they wanted to get him the hell off the there. So we went to the motorcade, and normally id be in a car two or three behind the president s limo stagecoach, as it was code named but for whatever reason that day as were walking out the door he turned around, whistled at me and pointed to the backseat of the car. I spent virtually all of 9 11 with him. When we got to the plane, he whistled at me again, pointed to the seat across from me in his private office, so i was there. And as were going to the airport, rather than go 40 miles an hour, were going 85 miles an hour. Nobodys saying anything. Andy card is on the bench looking at us, the president is on this the side of the car, im here. Eddies in the jump seat in the front shotgun and the driver, thats it, and were rolling 85 miles an hour to the airport. And the phone rings, little phone on the side of the backseat. President picks it up, i can only hear one side of the conversation, but i know its bad when he says is rumsfeld alive, the strike on the pentagon. At that moment i couldnt look at him, and i looked to the side and realized that about a foot and a half away from us was a police car. In fact, there were four police cars. I hadnt really recognized they were there, maybe a foot and a half away from the car. And were going 85 miles an hour and these guys are matching us. If you could roll down the window, it was there. And later in the day i said to eddie, what was that all about . Never seen it before, he said we were worried about a car bomber, and we wanted it to go 10 or 15 feet away from the president , give him a better chance of surviving the blast and my first thought was what the hell was i doing in the backseat of that [laughter] but that was the day. I mean, the day was you know, we got on the plane. The president , we lift off, and when we lifted off, literally the plane began to roll when the door is not even shut. We got on the plane, and normally, you know, they normally it takes like 10 or 15 minutes to power, get everybody in their seat and power it up. We got on the plane and im buckled in across from the president. People were pouring on the door, the last person comes pouring up the stairs about five seconds later i realize the stairs are disappearing because the plane is beginning to move, we need to get the stairs out of there before the wing clips the stairs and the door is open. And somebodys screaming to somebody that the door is open, and an airman comes running up the hallway, grabs a strap, leans out over 30 feet of air, pulls the door shut and arms it, and we are rolling. Colonel tillman flips around this 747 like it is a piper cub. Stomps on the brakes, powers up the engines just, you know, they are blowing. And lets9 go and we go rolling down there. Ive done Aircraft Carrier landings and takeoffs, that was the closest thing ive seen to an aircraft takeoff. We rolled down that thing and he gets airborne and stands us on the tail. And im looking up at the president , yeah, im okay, hows your day going . [laughter] and hes looking down at me like this. But almost were heading up the west coast of florida and the president says were going to washington. And the Vice President calls him from the peocc, rumsfeld leaves the fires outside the pentagon and goes to the command center and calls him and says dont come back. The president is not a guy who has got a temper, but theyre arguing about whether or not to go back to washington. And theyre saying dont come, we dont know. There may be some guy with a shoulder launch missile waiting for air force one to come to final approach. But the entire day was like that. Not ill tell one more quick thing and then stop. The president is sitting there, a andy card and i are sitting across from him. Weve all been on the phones talking to giuliani, pa tackty, you know, everybody pataki. Were reporting on some conversations and the phone rings. And i think it was the Vice President. And the president listens for a few moments and says, yes. Thislistens for 10 or 15 seconds more, says you have my authorization. Another 10 or 15 seconds, yes, another 5 or 10 seconds, you have my authorization and hangs up. And looks at andy and i and in a voice like you are announcing your grocery list says ive just given authorization for the military to shoot down any aircraft inbound to any critical target. I was so shocked, he reflected on how horrible it would be to be the pilot who got that order. Yeah. Later that day we were in, we flew to nebraska. They were trying to keep him away from washington. We got a briefing, and were looking at a giant map two or three stories tall in this bunker underneath the nebraska prairies as aircraft are launched from a new jersey airfield to intersect one of the seven aircraft inbound across the atlantic with which theyd not been able to make communications, and were watching to see if this, these fighters can make contact with the pilot. The aircraft is inbound to philadelphia, and if they cant, their orders are to splash it before it gets to the new jersey coast. That was 9 11. Well, boy. I know, my office is in the White House Security perimeter on lafayette square, so we all had some sort of public reaction to these events. But the most extraordinary ill just say very quickly is that for a long time you were not allowed to get up out of your seat if you were leaving a washington airport. And only in america could you or they were authorized to shoot the plane down. Only in america would you be going from either dca which is the Reagan International airport or dulles without a translator translating this into multiple languages. And there was a russian who got was starting to get up as we were taking airborne, and thank god i speak some russian because i told him to sit down right now. But, you know, it was nobody was really prepared for that. So id like to ask you, it is an extraordinary thing to be associated with such decision making, to be an intimate part of this power circle, to wield power yourself. In the publics mind and also by virtue of your with, you know, relationship to the Vice President of the United States and, therefore, the president of the United States. What did you do to keep yourself going . Because, you know, were living in tough times now from a perspective of criticizing other americans, but i think it was pretty tough back then too, budget it . Yes. But like karl, you leave with so many stories of the unflappability of people who are leading us and, well, the other end of your story. We were in the peocc, and i cant tell uniforms very well apart. But he was in white so i think that means he was navy . And or the coast guard. Its probably not the coast guard. Navy uniform, coast guard officers. Whoever. He was a tall, distinguished looking man, gray hair. And he came over and whispered in dicks ear, this is the other end of what youre hearing, and dick said take it out. It was the airplane. You know, they had come to dick and said what should we do, weve got this airplane incoming, its full of people, we have reports that they may hit the capitol, they may hit the white house. You know, it was a time when we were personally in danger, but i dont remember anybody being chicken by that. However, the navy captain been been again dick says, take it out. And e remember that so clearly because i understood what it meant. And as karls saying, my goodness, you have a military aircraft shooting down a passenger airliner. I dont think its a close ethical decision because with if that airliner had gone down in the white house or if it had this is flight 93, that were talking about. Oh, im sorry, karl. Thats exactly right. But instead they went down in shanksville because the people were very brave. Not to dwell too much on that, but the as we came back into washington that night, the president finally at the end of the briefing in nebraska said im coming back to washington. They said, oh, mr. President , please dont come, we dont know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said, no, im coming back. The nation needs to hear me from the oval office, not from some bunker under the nebraska prairie, and besides, im going to sleep in my own bed tonight. He wasnt very jocular at that moment. We were occupied working on the speech that he was going to give to the country. But about 20 minute, 30 minutes outside of washington he said im going to take a quick power nap, and the speech was pretty well put to bed. Two of us are standing outside the private office, hes down in the bedroom which is forward, and were just sort of talking. And up flies an f16 aircraft that takes up left station station as the left wing tip of air force one. It was pretty amazing, and there he is. And my colleague said, get your camera, take a picture, take a picture. I had a little camera that id been taking pictures. And i went into the cabin to get it out of my briefcase, and there was one of my right wing tip, two f16 fighters. Wed entered the national air spaces cordoned around washington that existed even before 9 11. So were sitting there excitedly talking about how cool this was, and then we stopped. This was not a ceremonial escort. These guys were the last line of defense. If something came up out of the ground or, you know, somewhere in space at air force one, their job was to put their craft between that threat and air force one. So we come in to land at andrews, and we come in like this. And we had these two f16 fighters on our wing tip as we were literally and again, im strapped in looking at the president like this as we come in. At the last moment, colonel tillman pancakes the 747 on this runway. And as he does, these two f16 fighters simultaneously are turn on their afterburners to push ahead of the craft, of air force one, so they boom and like this 50 feet off the ground. A couple years later i was walking through the airport in atlanta, and this trim guy about mid to late 30s comes up to me and says are you karl rove . He said, yeah, i am. He said, we were together on 9 11. And i said remind me where. Andand he said i was on your let wing tip oh, boy. Isnt that a story . Yes. Air force reservist, a stockbroker doing his active duty and on the flight line, the launch line on 9 11, and this was his job. Wow. I mean, these are such yeah. [applause] very, very moving stories. Well, i since were here at the Rancho Mirage writers festival, i cant help myself. You have both been at the epicenter of events during the 2000s, a very dynamic period and in response to 9 11, of course, we go into iraq in 2003 and the rest. But youve both also written history. So im wondering how your own personal experiences during this time informs the way you look at historic figures. Does it or does it not at all . The. My own personal experience was i was writing a book on education. And i was about halfway through when george bush asked dick to be Vice President. And the president tobe, his main cause was education. So i couldnt finish that book. You know, i couldnt go out there with a set of opinions that, you you know might confli, might not conflict, couldnt finish the book. So i started writing childrens books. I thought, this is the least harmful thing i can do. [laughter] you know, whos going to get mad about a patriotic childrens book. And so i wrote, i think, six of them while tic was Vice President. While dick was Vice President. Its one of the best things ive ever done. That was that long ago, and people are still giving a is for abigail and america for baby presents. I mean, its my goto baby present. So it affected my life in quite an important way, and i dont think karl ever knew that. Im not going to answer your question directly, but im going to tell a dick cheney story. [laughter] okay. So its june of 2000 and bush is thinking about who his Vice President ial running mate should be, and were looking at nine people. And the head of the process is Richard Cheney of dallas, texas. And during the course of all of this, bush becomes convinced that cheney ought to be the guy. And he knows im against it. So he calls me up, nice iowa, and he calls me hes in iowa, and he says im coming home tonight, as you know, be at the Governors Mansion tomorrow at 10 00, and i want you to make the case why i shouldnt go with dick cheney. So i show up, and the Governors Mansion in texas was built in 1854 when there were coman chi indians 20 miles to the west, not very big. Were in the Austin Library which is about maybe twice the size of this stage, and im sitting on one side of the room, and governor bush is on the other side of the room about 4 feet away, and were in comfortable chairs. Okay, tell me why we shouldnt go with cheney. And i said, well, europe, number one, wyoming. Three electoral votes. Havent lost it since 1964, not worried about it. We need to go with somebody from a, from a battleground state. Number two, cheney had his first heart attack at the age of 34, so i used to know the details, and i said i think hes had three since, hes working on perfecting the heart attack. People are going to say hes not going to last are four years. [laughter] number three, he was a conservative congressman from a conservative state 18 years ago, and every one of his stupid votes is going to be brought up. Like one of three members of congress to vote against the resolution calling on the Apartheid Regime of south africa to move Nelson Mandela from the island prison where theres no doctor to the mainland prison where there was a doctor. Three guys vote against it, hes one of them. Number four, weve worked very hard to identify you as your own man, lets pick the guy who was the guy who was secretary of defense at a time of war for your father, thats going to erase that. People in the midwest and northeast are concerned about you being an oilman . Lets get the guy whos running halliburton. 12th amendment problem, anyway, this is like World Wrestling federation. [laughter] nobodys ever going to bring up that vote, youre ridiculous. Etc. , etc. This goes on for about 30, 35 minutes. At the end of it, i literally realize i have sweat through my shirt. [laughter] this has been just like he says, uh, got anything else . I said, no, thats it, sir. Turns to the guy next to him, says, dick, got any questions for karl . Cheney had been listening [laughter] as were wall out of the room he says to me, i agree with some of what you had to say. That night bush calls me and he says really good today. He was back on the road. He literally came, was there for six or seven hours, met with the Vice President , then left again. Calls me that night. About 10 00. He says really good today, reallied good. You outlined ten serious political problems. And i hadnt thought of them, and it was really good. So figure out what youre going to do about em, because im going with cheney. [laughter] these are all political problems, figure out what youre going to do about em. Thats not my job. My job is to figure out who would be the best partner to me the oval office and if something terrible a happened to me, whom would the country have immediate if confidence in me, and thats dick. Im going with him. Dont tell anybody ive made the decision or ill kill you, but figure out what youre going to do, and i want you to be prepared how we can prepare for each one of these eventualities. And it was a testament to her husband. I just have to add were out of time, dick was the other opponent of his being chosen. Yeah. And argued strenuously against it for many of the same reasons karl did. And the president finally leaned on him down in texas on the hot porch of the ranch house until, you know, dick was sweating and the president was sweating and finally dick said, okay, ill do it. Yeah. And you know what . He never held my if bluntness against me. He could not have been a better colleague to and more importantly, a better mentor. Im terribly sorry that were out of time. I hope youll agree with me this was a terrific opportunity to hear from [applause] and now on cspan2s booktv, more television for serious readers. [inaudible conversations] like to welcome you all to city lights booksellers and publishers. We are thrill toav