He has written 3 previous books before homewrecker is, how america lost iraq. And washingtons battle against americans, veterans and the thing is. What he has done is looking at veterans, looking at war, because of his reporting, fewer us military veterans face long lines waiting for disability compensation. He has sparked, his journalism sparked federal legislation, congressional hearings. What he does leads to a response by government and maybe we will see the same hedge fund magnates, shady banks and vulture capitalists suckered millions out of their homes and demolished the American Dream. He is a peabody award winner, Journalism Award winner, twice nominated for National Emmy for his work on pbs news hour. He is really good at what he does. We are very fortunate to have Dorothy Brown from Emory University school of law, nationally recognized scholar and tax policy, race, class. And and she was excited because she was eager to read his book. And lets join me in welcoming. Please welcome aaron glatz and Dorothy Brown. Tell us how you got to the title homewreckers how a gang of wall street kingpins, hedge fund magnates, shady banks and vulture capitalists suckered millions out of their homes and demolished the American Dream. 8 million American Homes were foreclosed on during the Great Recession but they didnt all disappear, someone ended up with them. The wealth gap in America Today is the top tenth and the other 90 . The homeownership rate is at its lowest level in 50 years. It didnt just go down. And until it bottomed out. And the book takes a while to put together. And i was watching donald trump. And when the time he is doing really well. Low unemployment, high Dow Jones Industrial average, many consecutive quarters of growth, wall street is doing great but america is angry and on the left Bernie Sanders is doing a incredibly well with the same populist message. It seemed housing would be a fruitful way to focus so i basically started with this question 8 million americans lost their homes, we lost our wealth. Where did it go . Who took it . The homewreckers. You got to the homewreckers. One of the things i think about when i think about Home Ownership is the typical American Family has a lot of their equity in their home. When you lose a home or your family loses a home, that is a significant wealth depletion event. Not only 8 million homes but that will have an intergenerational impact. Homeownership is the only way people in america can save money. We follow the Dow Jones Industrial average with only 20 of americans own stock. The average american has 4,000 in the bank. We are a paycheck to paycheck society where most money goes to things like transportation, Health Insurance premiums, clothing, food, all of that disappears the moment we spend it. Housing is our biggest expense but even that is going to go back into our home in the form of equity that we can pass on to our children or enjoy a healthy retirement or go to our landlord and they will enjoy all that. When you say homeownership is at the lowest rate in 50 years we are talking about the disposition of peoples ability to live the American Dream. According to the census the average homeowner in this country is worth 100 times more than the average winter yet 200, 000 versus 2,000. This is not because homeowners make 100 times as much money. I make the same amount of money is my colleagues who rent but im worth more because i have my house and not only that but i live in the city of San Francisco which is rapidly gentrifying. People are getting evicted. Their rents are going up, they are being displaced. Meantime im sitting with 30 year fixedrate mortgage, and this is a medical event requires me to dip into this equity. And i want to retire at some point. I may have that ability and. And my colleagues dont. They dont have that ability. Part of the story of homewreckers and sandys story deals with reverse mortgages. How did you get into researching those . I mostly was interested in this failed california bank. Some of you may remember indy mac was the first big bank to follow in the housing bust. And and and during the boom, ninja would stand for no income, no job, no assets, no problem, they had disneyland loans because there was disneyland la bank, to make 90, 000 and they proved it without looking at paperwork and when the Housing Market softened it went bank, the government held the bank and there was a dramatic run on the bank that was out of the depression where people were pushing or shoving in pasadena but instead of being black and white, there were more channels and Steve Mnuchin who is now our treasury secretary stepped in and bought this bank from the government for nothing and then the government made this deal with him where we would subsidize his foreclosures. Guaranteeing he couldnt take a loss. You shouldnt foreclose because you would lose money but not of the government is picking up the tab and we agreed to pick up 90 of the tab and through the freedom of information act that revealed we paid his group more than 1 billion. To foreclose on people and he foreclosed on 100,000 people including 20,000 seniors. So i had this bank seem like foreclosed on over 100,000 people, the homeownership rate at a record low run by the treasury secretary who poses with large sheets of bills almost like a doctor evil kind of picture, lives in the worlds richest Apartment Building at 740 park avenue. A great story for journalists but also the reverse mortgages. I happened upon that somewhat oddly where i was pulling this string as a journalist and became interested in these private equity firms that had actually bought these houses after foreclosure and found this house that was in South Los Angeles where the guy who was living in the house was renting from one of these private equity funds owned by the best friend of donald trump, Thomas Barrick who bought 30,000 homes after the bust and i knocked on the door of this house and the guy who came to the door was dying of cancer and sick with aids and facing a rent increase and i was like oh my lord so like a good reporter i looked at the property record. The company that bought this house for 100, 000 in 2013, that is when i found this house had been owned by the same africanAmerican Family that moved west from mississippi during the great migration that had finally been able to buy his house in 1973, 1963 the very year california banned discrimination in housing, the year they were able to become homeowners and they had been foreclosed on by Steve Mnuchin by one of these reverse mortgages and now i had this house that didnt just involve one member of Donald Trumps inner circle, disposer sing this family whose whole wealth was tied up in their home but involve two of them and as i continue to pull the string i found this house had been bundled into a mortgagebacked security by Jpmorgan Chase where there was 514 million lean on an 834 foot square, and subsequent to me publishing that story in 2017 trumps best friend decided to flip out of this company, sold his insurance interests, another of Donald Trumps friends, steve schwartzman, the chairman of blackstone whose company owns 80,000 homes and the same house that had been the hopes and dreams of this african American Family sold one of these predatory first markets foreclosed on by Steve Mnuchins bank, the house was bought by Donald Trumps best friend bundled into mortgagebacked security, and another of Donald Trumps best friends. Another mortgagebacked security pulling more wealth out of the house, now there is a billiondollar i should write a book about these people. That is an article, really complicated. You mention african American Family. Redlining, in the 1930s, when president roosevelt was in the homeowners corporation, basically invented the modern mortgage. Before president roosevelt and the new deal we didnt have mortgages like we have now. We had 5 year balloon payments the homeowners rate really low. Most people didnt ask to buy a house. This is where the American Dream comes from, omaha, nebraska is 20 . But there were people who work for the government to drew lines on maps in shaded neighborhoods and said dont make loans here and that persisted until the 1960s in the civil rights movement. When the support corporation helps millions of americans stay in their homes and refinance one of every 5 mortgages in urban america and the g. I. Bill helps 4 million returning veterans after world war ii, that was all by people. So for the Butler Family who i wrote about about this home in south la, for them to overcome all of that plus the structural discrimination, and finally by this house in 1963 that was an incredible accomplishment. This is a story, we had this predatory lending that was endemic during the bubble. These reverse mortgages offered by Companies Like indy would give you a relatively small amount of money sometimes and compound interest, fees and sap your wealth and so the Butler Family, they lost their house. He rents, paying a lot of money to rent an apartment. His daughter, she rents, everything rents, everyone is paying rent to a landlord. He can be hard to get it back. I thought i would write a book about this family. It is so emblematic of what happened especially since Steve Mnuchins bank in california concentrated over nearly 70 of its foreclosures to communities of color but the problem with this family was they gave up and that does not power a book. You need action and then sometime after that i wrote a book proposal anyway. I sold it to the publisher and promised i would write a book about this family but i knew in the back of my mind i didnt have enough. Then sometime later on the other when you mentioned who was white, lived in a more affluent part of suburban los angeles, not rich but solidly middleclass. Her father worked for the water departments. Her mother worked for a company that made payroll checks. They had by their first house with the g. I. Bill. They were white. In the 80s they bought this house with another va loan out of thousand oaks. 1500 square foot home, three bedrooms and they too sold one of these reverse mortgages. Unlike the butlers to pack up and left and gave up, sandy thought and she fought this cabal of home records for nearly 10 years and she saved everything so we journalists we like people who save everything. She was nice enough to allow me to enter her life and tell her whole story from the moment her parents were sitting at home in their living room in thousand oaks, calvin you watching james garner cellular reverse mortgage from Financial Freedom where they called the number on your screen and the man came to their door with a power point presentation whose last slide, im not kidding, said what is the catch . None. There is no catch. From that moment in 2005 through the foreclosure all the way until 12 years later when she won in 89 million whistleblower settlement from the taxpayers against Steve Mnuchins bank and she let me into that world and she touches all Trump Associated home records i mentioned, all of them and even though we all know, talking about how america is losing in general, she wins a little bit and that is exciting. Her story is really interesting. She loses her parents house, it is foreclosed but they never rent it back. And exorbitant amounts, they said we take this on mount. If you go months and months, and they write the check to a company name that didnt make sense. This is why i wanted to write this book. The reason there were a lot of foreclosures is familiar to people but what is not familiar is what happened after that. That is where the story always ends. She drives up to ventura which is 40 miles north of los angeles, confronts all the people bidding on foreclosure, printed out information anybody dont do it, dont do it, they are ripping me off until the last minute this woman comes, puts in her little bluetooth and doesnt pay any attention. I dont want to see that. 330, 000 and until i talked to sandy who directly confronted this machine which people usually dont do, she walks back to her car and just sits there and asks where are they going to go. She drives back to her house which is no longer her house and she walks in the door and sits with her adult daughter and her sister comes over and they are sitting there, we lost our family home. And she saves everything. It is a blue masking tape. It is an eviction notice. She comes to the door and confronts this man and he simultaneously gives her this addiction notice signed by the california 5 llc and also this letter saying should everyone tell you you are being evicted, know that this is not the case. We want you to stay as our tenant. Who are these guys . She figures out this California Llc as part of a big Company Called colony America Homes which is a thing. It is only later when i come on the scene that i explain it is run by tom baron, Donald Trumps best friend. In 18 months as attendance, 42, 000 in rent, 42, 000 in rent over 18 months for a house her parents had bought for less than 90, 000. Bought and paid for by the reverse mortgage. Their mortgage payment at the time was 1,600 a month. It would have been paid off if it hadnt been for the reverse mortgage. This reverse mortgage company, she claimed her parents lacked the mental capacity, the bank examined her mother, after the bank they found her mother, did not know what day of the week it was or how many legs a cow has and the banks medical expert testified she was nonetheless completely fine to sign this reverse mortgage. They painted sandy as a villain. She doesnt care about her parents who have decided that they need this product. Who is she to interfere with their will. Because of that she paid 40, 000 a month, 18 months and another important thing about this company. And she loses the lawsuit. He loses and appeals and appealed again and loses again. In 2013, she finally loses at the courthouse and this company, California Llc, more than 300 llcs chartered in delaware buys the house. So sandy, she has a lease. They raise the rent 3 times in 18 months. They also, a feature of these companies, they push all the maintenance on to a tenant. They say the plumbing first, that is up to you. The window cracks, that is up to you so not only are you paying more in rent but you have to fix things when they break. Homeowners building up equity but how in the world would you ever have enough money to get back into Home Ownership . That makes them home records, not just that they foreclose on you and take your house but also keep you out. Was there anything as you were writing the book that surprised you . Youve done this reporting, given so much of the story that wasnt new, was there anything when you thought about it or discovered it, it was worse than i thought or i never knew that . The thing that surprised me most was how many people foresaw all this, want about it and were not listened to. Learning the extent to which this was predicted by smart people in 2008 and they went not only to the current president george w. Bush about also nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer who that is now with the Democratic Leaders and the democrats were in charge of the whole congress and they said you know what . You could bail out these wall street guys or you could do what president roosevelt did during the Great Depression and i already mentioned helping 1 Million People stay in their homes, refinancing one of every five loans in urban america. Lowering the price of the mortgage to meet the market. Nothing racist like president roosevelt was and make this available to all people and they pointed out something i did not know which is it made money for taxpayers because American People given a nonpredatory mortgage usually pay it back with interest. The homeowners made money, the g. I. Bill which helped 4 million American Veterans to buy homes broke even so these people, former members of the Federal Reserve board, former advisers to ronald reagan, members of the American Enterprise institute, people who were saying this is fiscally responsible and putting in front of these Democratic Leaders and i asked him tell me i was assuming tell me about the battle that ensued, nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer left us out of their office. In a way that was very dispiriting and it is very encouraging to know that these ideas are with us and so we can still do that. I find that inspiring actually. The most surprising thing. A moment in history, moment of time when the right idea can lead to change. Is that inspiring . People are very hopeless. They look at home records and wonder what can we do . The fact that there are some good things we can do is very empowering. The thing about these new deal programs that was so inspiring to me is, and we cannot afford it. And we pay 1 billion. And bankunited. We subsidize the purchase of all these homes, and the fha ended up owning 200,000 homes because we were backing up these bad mortgages. We couldve sold them individually to families like roosevelt did and bundled them all with private equity firms or pennies on the dollar were subsidize that. We subsidize these people so much. We dont subsidize but invest in our own people. Make money for our government that we cant afford it. And was a depressing, and it was also democrats. And it was not a surprise to me. I know that because i lived through it. And the homeownership rate declined every single year of the Obama Presidency and that is a fact. I know that happened. It wasnt really a surprise. That is where the investigation came in. I remember at the time, do we bail out homeowners or bailout the banks and the deal was made to bail out the banks and i remember hearing talk that we dont bail out homeowners but incurred as bad decisionmaking, because i dont need a bailout and pay my mortgage and what should my i remember hearing those arguments as to why you dont bail out homeowners. And student debt. And if that played a role how elected officials Pay Attention to the issue. We had so many opportunities to do it differently. In decisions of 20082009 what i am noting is things going the wrong direction all the way until 2016. There were many different moments where the decision was made to shovel more money at the home records instead of the American People. For example it was in 2011 the government was awash in 200,000 properties. It was in 2012, to sell him 1000 homes with los angeles, and phoenix, for 0. 30 on the dollar instead of selling them individually, to be similarly able to benefit from that kind of discount. If we are taking a huge hit of why not pass that on to families who if the economy recovers will be able to benefit. Why give that benefit to these private equity firms. That was in 20112012. Then get into the leveraging so in 2014, that is when you see these liens recorded on these properties of 500 million. Looking at the property record, 834 square foot bungalow or a sandys house at i am seeing a 500 million lien. How could this be . And thousands of homes are bundled together and they pull out the equity. I am asking isnt this what we were accused of doing during the bubble and the answer is yes. That is why i named Jpmorgan Chase, jamie dimon is one of my home records because these guys, like tom barracks, steve schwartzman, you think they are spending their own money . They are not. They are getting it from somewhere in the biggest lender on these mortgagebacked securities including the ones in the homes in my book was invariably chase and chase is important because number one it is the biggest bank in america financing mortgagebacked securities, also pulling out of the fha program that make loans to workingclass families. It made more loans, one company that it did through the fha program and we are making loans not to the Government Program but too bigger hassle. My colleague emmanuel ortagus and i looked at their lending and found their lending was not only down from the peak of the bubble but even down from the bust of 2010, their mortgage lending had gone down dramatically and instead investing in these critiques products in dc, playing this game where they claim not to have a branch because if they had a branch the investment act requires them to lend in low income, they have not a branch but an office across from the white house and made loans to rich people and they made 1000 loans in dc over a 2year period and 23 of them were africanamericans. Jamie dimon got really mad, went on national tv and announced he was opening up 400 branches across the country, that was very exciting. Change is impossible. People dont like being called out. The chase lobbyist was in the office screaming at them. That is not my fault. It is not redlining. And they were doing the same in philly. And in boston. And what is really important, it is not just us like regular people, these are also borrowing money, also getting financed. And who benefits, when we debate an issue like gentrification, we should be including this part about who is doing the financing and who is being left out. What do you hope home records accomplishes . I want to reframe the debate. I want to advance us forward. I wrote the book because i feel like we have been stuck. Not realizing ten years have passed, ten years have passed. They are still yelling at me about people getting bad loans and that is 13 years ago. I dont want to debate that with you. I want to debate what happened from 20092019 because that is the world we are living in right now. I want to shift the debate and i want us to Start Talking about these home letters. I want to see the way this gang of wall street kingpins, hedge fund magnets, crooked bankers, i want us to see how they would operate to make tremendous gains under president obama and use that power to take office themselves under donald trump and i want us all to be aware of that because while the president is tweeting whatever he is tweeting they are still working. Steve mnuchin, wilbur ross is still working. In these homes are still being rented out. These homes are still being rented out. The other thing i would say is im trying to in 2020, what is the next play . We have to catch up as fast as we can. They are already ahead of me. Have you heard any candidates homeownership or housing policy that interesting . That is how democrats have these plans. Elizabeth warren his first. She came up with a redlining plan on the senate floor. She made a standing ovation. Pete buttigieg has something real. Julian castro has something, bernie has something, joe biden, havent seen anything from him. He might be the outlier in not having anything but you asked me what impact i want to make with the book. I want to push this in front of them because they have these plans because the people want to hear what they have to say. Now we need the extra step, we need the media to engage them on these plans. When they have the next debate we need Anderson Cooper or whoever is leading the debate to engage them like get Kamala Harris to talk about her 100 billion plan for africanamerican homeownership, and get lisbeth foreign to tear down and see what happens and let them engage and come up with Better Solutions based on their debates. We need to see that same focus. The more the Candidates Campaign on these issues rather than having plans on their website, will they actually be likely to do that plan. I would like to see the media do its job, not so much scrutinizing their plan but engaging and forcing them to actively campaign on it. And talking about it. This is about, we started off, 80 of most americans budgets oh 2 five essentials and the only one that increases in value is homeownership. The average homeowner is worth 100 times more than the average winter. Lets get these candidates talking about plans to promote this so that we can ask voters evaluate them. We know donald trump stands with the home records. Their full of his cabinet and we havent even talked about the way they have rigged the tax code to benefit the owners of llc shall companies, simultaneously limiting the mortgage Tax Deduction that makes homeownership more affordable let alone getting of the Community Investment act and the Financial Protection Bureau and Fair Housing Act. We could keep going. That is not the only option. We have other choices. We have other candidates who have issues that dont include that that we have to choose from. A good time for [applause] for q and a, not applause. I want you to have a chance to ask some questions. We will do 10 minutes of questions but please wait for the microphone to come to you. We will take the first question right here in the middle. Media reports show 10,000 workingclass people are living in their cars or rvs in los angeles in order to work in the city. What can be done in the programs you looked at to reconcile that problem, workingclass people cant live anywhere near where the jobs are . We have a huge affordability crisis, that is true. There is the debate on those issues out of california where i am, theres a whole debate of how much housing do we need and in their ongoing debate that has a lot of vital perspective. That is an important part of the debate we often neglect. We need to take a hard look at the 3 million American Homes that were bought by llc and other shell companies, and when we see starting, all about scarcity, i question topic the scarcity is. And it was awash in foreclosures. That was just yesterday. I am not against condos necessarily. I dont know that that is the solution. In San Francisco where i live there were all kinds of crazy condo developments in the city is going down and families are being displaced. We need to look at ownership and cant get pushed out. We need to focus on that not only for uppermiddleclass folks. When the condos, monthly management fees, in addition to the rent. It is an 18, 000 a month maintenance fee. I came to atlanta in 1969, graduated in 71, president carter awarded me my degree. I am going to tell you something. Lets keep it to questions if we could. I would be glad to. Could you tell the American People why we lost in iraq . That is a whole other discussion that i will be happy to talk to you about after words. The long and short of it, countries dont like to be occupied by the us military. The people deserve to know the truth that bullets went from atlanta to baghdad, those bullets contributed to the 4000 american soldiers lost in iraq and the cost that contributed to the recession. Please tell that to the American People. We are going to be talking about the home records. Lets go down here to tim in front. Could you explain about this program that was such a failure that was supposed to refinance house and bank of america especially would receive all these applications and would lose them constantly. Repeatedly people would send them. No such computers in the bank and on top of that they would have people to forge officers signatures to foreclose on the houses. And and it was bank of america. I dont know that bank of america was especially guilty, only that was guilty of all the other banks were doing the same thing at that time and they got the same bailout and they used the same program. What we did was gave the bank a ton of money and said please help homeowners and so they had already gotten the money and the programs were voluntary. Then people found themselves dealing with a giant bureaucracy but there was no teeth behind it. It was a little bit different with Steve Mnuchins bank because they were bought by the government or absorbed by the government, and sold to him. And to offer these programs, it is bigger than what bank of america did. And robo signing, i always thought that was actual robots but as you say was actually people signing so fast it was almost like they were robots. This one woman Erica Johnson who ended up being deposed, one of these robo signers for Steve Mnuchin said she spent an average of 30 seconds reviewing every single loan file. That is one reason why you had people foreclosed on by Steve Mnuchins bank throwing as little as 0. 27. They receive more than 1 billion in Government Support for foreclosures. So bank of america was just like the rest of them. That is what was held to account, we can look to the Obama Administration and the state attorney generals, Kamala Harris, her own staff in the Attorney Generals Office wrote a 25 page memo alleging the they buried the report. There was cowardice all around at that time. Now because of that, i dont know if Kamala Harris prosecuted, what the outcome would have been but i imagine if she had taken him to court like staff recommended that he might have other things to be doing in 2016 besides managing finances for Donald Trumps campaign for president. These people were allowed to escape across the board. Other questions . Do you foresee private equity firms sometime in the future liquidating the supply of homes they own or perhaps selling them to the renters . Know and i will tell you why. I dont anticipate them selling the homes because of these new financial products. And the house and soft la and in the suburbs, how they were leveraged twice. This is white is a generational transfer of wealth. They might do the same thing you say. The price is up, they high but it is more complicated. And pulling money out of the houses and putting in their pocket, taking the Company Public and walking away. And and they did so without the property ever going back to homeownership. That is what is new here. It is kind of complicated. If you look at my house there is a mortgage, and and the second mortgage of my house. And what that signifies is the owners of the house have taken all the equity out and put it in their pockets. Who will pay this out. The tenants. That is why the rent keeps going up so the question we should be asking ourselves is not when these guys will sell because a lot of them have already sold. The question we should be asking is what happens when we have a recession, when the Unemployment Rate is not low, people can no longer afford 3,100 a month which is what the company is charging about sandys old home. What is going to happen to this giant pile of death . Are we going to be back with another too big to fail situation all over again . You described interesting parallels between policies of segregation in the mid20th century, and predatory lenders are taking advantage of. And homeownership, i am wondering what you think, we know the fhas manual said part of the reason we are doing this is to maintain homogeneity. We want racially homogenous neighborhoods. I wonder what you think is the motivation for private equity investors. Is pure greed or something more sinister happening . Two things. The first is we did a National Investigation of home records and there are 61 cities across the country where people were more likely to be denied a mortgage even when they tried to buy the same size home in the same neighborhood with the same amount of debt. Clearly the Fair Housing Act is not withstanding, racism is still alive and well. We went from the period during the boom where there were predatory products we offered to a period during the best when no one could get credit, not white people are black people or anyone and now we see almost a return to the kind of redlining that looks more like the 80s than the 2000s the credit is available if you have the right color skin and this is the case even though it is completely illegal. There are a lot of things like this, she did a great study from the Federal Reserve bank of atlanta in 2016 which found evictions, where they would be in atlanta if it was a black neighborhood. Is there a memo, evict black people . We have not found it. During the bubble there was like wells fargo, they were making ghetto loans. We have not found anything like that with those guys but it was always the same. It would be great to have some whistleblowers. The differences with private equity, they dont sell them together. Private equity is not a bank where you have adverse people down the street who may work at the bank versus private equity. We havent found a memo because they dont talk other than to each other. If you read the book, i was shocked by how little entered into their mind except for money. It really is disproportionate there may be a memo. We believe that to the future. Or not. What can we do to stop these home records since a lot of things are run by technology, the government doesnt care, the demise of law, nothing you can do about it, they are not on your side. The courts are probably rigged by government and technology, what can we do to stop the massive monolith destroying our lives . Im glad you gave me the opportunity to discuss the way ben carson is gutting the Fair Housing Act. I realize we are looking for something more than domestic but it is an important point to pass on which is for 50 years we got the standard in antidiscrimination law that if you can provide a pattern we dont need to have the memo. It is like all the black people turned down that discrimination. We dont need to have a memo saying dont give loans to this group or that group. The new regulations proposed by ben carson just say the disparate impact, that is the legal terminology is not the way to do that any longer. The disparate impact is perfectly fine. In addition to that, this rule the Trump Administration proposes, it actually says specifically if discrimination is caused by an out a rhythm we cant follow the actor, cant blame a human for what the algorithm did unless racism factor in the algorithm. The program was not designed to buy a human. A lot of programs are reverse engineered. That is where the battle is, the place that you described. And they have their technologies that are protecting them and the technologies they created are destroying us. This is what the Trump Administration proposed, not what happened. The commentary disclosed, National Civil rights mobilization, likely to be litigation, we have this idea the Trump Administration, civil rights must be in the toilet. We live in a democracy, theres a multistep process with a variety of points that interweave and send things in another direction. I am calling your attention to the fact you spotlighted exactly the area that is being fought right now. Lets do one last question in the back. The short term Housing Market and Affordable Housing programs. Can they be linked to these home records . Are they ancillary kind of issues . I dont think it is the same issue. I think the to the extent people are pushed to exorbitant amounts of money for these home wreckers speaks to lack of Affordable Housing and other options. Who wants to pay 3,100 a month where you have to fix the window and plumbing, it means you dont have anywhere else to go so that is how they play together. We are going to wrap up right now. Aaron will be around a little bit signing books. Wall street kingpins, hedge fund magnates, shady banks and vulture capitalists suckered millions out of their homes and demolished the American Dream. If you happened to read the book that came out a while back, evict it by matthew desmond. It is along that line, looking at homeownership and how things that battle against having homeownership, it is a wonderful book to read. Aaron will be signing them. And thank you for having a wonderful conversation. And pay for your coffee and aarons book, he will be signing up, thank you very much. [inaudible conversations tonight on booktv and primetime you will see programs from our archives of many of the Democratic Candidates running for the partys president ial nomination. Also this evening donald trump junior argues the left is using Political Correctness to silence conservatives. Check our Program Guide or visit booktv. Org for more information. Does he spend city store is a the american story as we take book to be an American History tv
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