Be an age in which all kinds of new choices are going to be surfaced for us and we are going to be able to go a lot of places and its good to have a big effect on our cities and at the same time, companies and the city governments are going to be able to manage our movements and that will raise all kinds of questions about privacy comes with just the next stage of the internet revolution. Imagine a scenario, something you write about in you your boo, los angeles come 2028. What should we expect . Guest well, one thing about information revolution is you cant bet on dates. Weve seen it before with cell phones. My coauthor and i were in paris at the turnofthecentury around the year 2000, and we were predicting smartphones are going to change communication by 2003. It turned out that we were way early. It didnt come until 2007. That the changes are still important, so los angeles in 2028, what are we going to see . We are going to see a lot more choices, they will have spent billions of dollars on public transportation. There is going to be cars that are semieponymous running in certain parts of los angeles. I dont think we are going to have i dont think by that point we will have fully Autonomous Cars going around that vast space that we will have some of that. And there could be airships, Like Networks of small robotic drones that carry people and miranda yawned across los angeles. You spend some time out there and talked about the olympics and what they are planning to do for that time. Thethey have a lot of big projects they hope to get in gear by 2028 for the olympics. But i think the big thing is people are really fed u up more than ever with traffic in los angeles and they are so fed up that they decided to tax themselves, raising gas taxes to Fund Public Transit and i think the hope for many of them as if we Fund Public Transit, many of the people will leave the roads and things will move faster. Width of these billions of dollars that are being spent in los angeles, are they being spent on Smart Transportation or just more roads, more vehicles . They are not being spent on more roads and vehicles. They are being spent on a dramatic expansion of the metro system, more busing, electric buses and looking at los angeles as a testbed for all kinds of of technologies that they are opening it up and telling people if you set up your new company, whether it is computers or Autonomous Cars or fighting ships, you can try it out in los angeles. Host that have been actually in santa monica, defended the third scooter . Yes, and a lot of people were unhappy about it because one day the bird scooters disappeared on the sidewalks in santa monica, people looked at them and they saw how they could use their phones to activate them into the next thing you know they are writing around without helmets getting in the way of traffic and making some people very mad, and the funny thing about it was the guy that set up had previously worked at over and the way that it traditionally has worked is you offer your service, get a lot of people who like it and then deal with the government once youve got a constituency, and that is what they did. And it angered those in santa monica. I was just there a few days ago and lots of people were going around on all kinds of scooters. If it is too cheap it will be overused in the infrastructure because it includes moving molecules if you only have a certain number that can move in a physical space. What do you see as the role of government in this age . Government will have to take a much more active role than they have with the internet revolution and much more than a century ago when cars came in thinking of cars coming into cities over the last century they basically colonized our cities and they developed a constituency of all motorist around the world and then the motorist in the car industry built immense infrastructure all these roads to pave the planet so in this next stage its a chance for a do over from l. A. To dubai or shanghai each has a different approach but what they have to do is figure out how to make things work efficiently and cleanly to give everybody a chance to move around and not just the rich so its a question of equity as well. So what about the mobility generation is different than that in dubai . Los angeles is a hard place to govern there are scores of different municipalities within l. A. County and a lot of freedom thats what makes the United States and california unique its a hard place to govern where dubai there is a Central Authority so dubai organizes things to control movement they are investing in all kinds of new Technology Looking at flying machines but all of the data will go to a command center the goal is to move people and their things around as efficiently as the items as in the amazon warehouse. Its also a question of freedom versus deficiency. In dubai and china they will have a lot of efficiency so the question in the United States is how do we achieve that efficiency and thats by giving them the freedom that they are used to. So that authoritarian government has an easier time . Yes i think thats true of all kinds of things of authoritarian governments they have an easier time controlling things until people rise up. In dubai you compare it to being on the jetsons. Not yet that that is the vision to have flying airships early in the coming decade and not just a few in Luxury Hotels but they want these airships to carry all kinds of people with a metro system with little stops with flying machines carrying people back and forth. What have they developed already . They really havent developed anything that they have open their doors and have done test flights with the German Company where drones carry people across the city but they are not at a point where its happening yet they had a stretch goal of 2022 but you cant count on dates for the Technology Revolution they dont prove to be safe than they can to go with it. From your book whatever controls the data is in the position to control the movement. Who controls it . Think about an Autonomous Car it is a huge data machine the equivalent of supercomputers calculating each turn to record everything thats happening in the car. Much of that goes up onto networks prickle at the same time scooters or bikes are all of these network machines there is a vast amount of data that humanity makes in the city so who should have access . Thats a big battle in the coming decade. Ford wants to offer all kinds of great digital services. Voice command and interface with maps and all the rest they could develop that technology or team up with amazon to give people alexa. Now amazon has access to this mobility data. And ford has less but that was the decision they have to make how much data do i want the Tech Companies to control . Because they have Services People want. But you go further and suggest suggest the data the tech company has should be turned over to government for efficiency sake. I dont know if it should be turned over to government but in helsinki thats one of the cities we focus on, they dont turn the data over to government but they stipulate every conveyance whether a bus or metro has to provide mobility data with the same standard so any company that wants to manage Mobility Services has access to this data and can use it to provide services so thats the case where the government doesnt control the data but puts anonymized data to make it available to entrepreneurs and companies. You mentioned earlier Ford Motor Company that piece by piece Software Firms are out to conquer the car in one of the characters in your book is chris thomas. Who is he . Is a young man a graduate student at yale and from detroit and asked for an internship at ford and went to ford and got the most boring internship you could imagine so he sent emails to all the top executives just saying can i have a half hour of your time to tell you what i want he gets to talk with that half an hour with the chairman and tells them how boring this internship is and thanks him for an interesting job eventually they put them in this project to scope out the future of transportation and megacities so he sees this mobility revolution and convinces billy ford and others to set up a venture fund to invest in these new technologies. So thats what he did and when we wrote the book he was still doing that but later he quit the venture fund and is now setting up basically a new university to develop the brainpower that they need to have the talent for these new technologies of robotics and others to keep the auto business in detroit. Has he made any profit . I imagine he did very well with those investments of robotics and other Mobility Technologies is Education Venture i dont think thats a huge profit maker. A lot of the Mobility Technology developed now has not seen a return. Is that correct . Right Silicon Valley is full of all kinds of mobility startups and at some point this phase will and investors will ask difficult questions of the companies are making money and as we have seen in previous iterations that will be a bubble bursting in Many Companies and im sure they are likely to fail because thats what happens when brooms end and then the victors and the survivors will pick up the code the patents and grow with it. Whats going on in china right now with Mobility Technology . China is all over this technology with massive governmentfunded investments at and intelligence at the heart of these technologies. They want to become leaders they are big on airships. They want it all and they want china to be the leader and also to improve life in chinese cities because they are covered in smog and the traffic is miserable. So they can organize this right they can make their cities more attractive and at the same time become a leader in the most Important Technology in the next ten or 20 years. To have the biggest data set on earth. Right to. May have no citizen action groups that decry or ask for the data the chinese have access to the data and can do with it what they want and that gives them a big step up a little bit like dubai. That leaves american suspicious . Yes. It is a huge issue in this country how do we reap the benefits while maintaining our freedom and privacy. You list three different items you think Data Collection and this Technology Needs to be judged on algorithm audits and Net Neutrality walk us through those please. If you want a vibrant Mobility System in the city to go where you want to go and everything works well you have to have standards so everybody has the same type of data. What i was describing earlier with helsinki if you remember the cell phones in the nineties they couldnt talk to each other and europe was way ahead of us they had a common standard you could go to from finland to portugal and make calls anywhere you wanted but we need that kind of open standard in mobility so everybody can build together to not have a fractured ecosystem. But with audits there all types of Ways Companies and governments can misuse the data and conceivably make things happen so that people cannot use as fast as rich people. So they discriminate against certain types of people because they dont provide the economic return. So what you want is an audit to make sure the algorithms are fair but Net Neutrality is the idea that everybody should have equal access. That is full of inequality we have cities that have transit deserts where people cant get Public Transit to go to a Job Interview or school. And that we can use this next generation mobility to provide more mobility and change real estate because mobility deserts people move from them because the rent is low because of the pain to get anywhere. There are areas in the city would be fine if not a mobility deserts. If you have a system where people could move around a car share or bike share and had access to more areas of the cit city, it would have a big effect on the real estate market. In hop skip and a go you have a futuristic vision were some of the highways even the 405 in l. A. Would be a bike path or a walking path as a return to nature. Right. I think it will be a while before that happens but the idea is that helsinki is doing this. If more people are not using cars but other options to move around then you dont need as many parking lots. The county of los angeles has an immense amount of parking i think its five times the area of paris that is an enormous opportunity for parks or schools, swimming pools, pools, whatever you want. In helsinki they have a venture called mobility is a service with the idea that you open an app on your cell phone and it tells you how to get some place with all the connections and they have a lot of transit and its all paid for with a Monthly Subscription so the idea is if you can use information this way to package it people will not use their cars as much then you can start to turn highways into bike paths in green ways. How did helsinki become part of the cuttingedge . They are very advanced in technology and willing to try things first. And i was working to business week i was going up there all the time they were on the cutting edge with mobile phones with no kia and other providers. The fins are into the next age of the internet which happen to be mobility so then no kia was huge for a while then it was eclipsed by apple so the question is if the fins can become World Leaders in the apps that move us around or if they will be swallowed up by google. Another city featured is jakarta. What is going on there . Jakarta has some of the worst traffic in the world. There is a company there that has turned these motorbikes that they have into a taxi and delivery service. They can go much much faster through jakarta than the cabs or limousines. So once you have mobility on an app then you can start providing other services. You can deliver food, banking services, and it shows how you think of the previous revolution of the smart phone in the early 2000s you would not imagine a smart phone would become a music player or a video player or social networks and all the other things that it became. The same thing will happen with mobility. If you have services that deliver things on apps then they can move into other things like entertainment and food and banking and that is what we are seeing in jacquard asked me make you began this conversation talking about privacy. Where will this had with privacy . I dont know. It varies from one place to another. What is interesting if you think of the automobile revolution we have incredible amounts of privacy because we can go anywhere we want we could get lost and nobody knew where we were. Our parents, the cities barely knew. They had to put how hoses just to count the traffic so we had immense amount of freedom but also incredible waste now this next revolution has much less waste and it can be much greener but we will be counted and surveilled and controlled much more. And it is a tradeoff and i think a lot of people will not be happy with it but if you tell people how intrusive the cell phone is and how much it tells the phone companies or the government about our lives a lot of people are horrified that we still carry cell phones around because it provides a service we can do without and the same thing will be true of mobility we have to give up more privacy or freedom to get lost or to escape but if it works the way it could we can move much more efficiently and have a lot of fun. Hop skip and i go. Is the name of the book all communicators are available as podcast cspan2s book tv, moretelevision for serious readers. Good
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