My left is monaca. Shes a senior fellow at the seams and incentive for your international economics. And monicas left is danielle zarin director programs of the climate and land, use alliance. And then, on the screen is my good friend peter. The cofounder and ceo of the otero, the new mto focus on a lot of the issues that will be discussing today. Peter is also well known as the founder and longtime ceo of Conservation International where he continues to be chairman. Our topic today is Global Impact of the amazon rain forest weve been reading about in the news. And of course this raises so many issues. First of all, what is really happening. It is hard to tell on the basis of news. How much is due to ill legal log games or industrial egg, or bent government policy or is it Climate Change itself. Is it impacting of course. Also the question arises of what happens until recently, the great was one of the concert conservation Success Stories through a great effort, and the brazilian government and local government, brazilian growers and ranchers and international companies, international ngos, one of the great Success Stories of conservation use to boast about whispering the d4 station way down and hands on. But that has changed. What happened. Another question on my mind and important to discuss at the council on Foreign Relations is what in the International Community do. Who really owns the amazon. Obviously most of it, within brazil but not all of it. But its impact on the rest of the world and especially of the climate challenges are huge. Where are we in terms of the tipping. We know as Climate Change progresses or worsens, it can accelerate data are bad at kim. And then there are a whole host of other issues. What about the other amazon countries. What about the brawl of Indigenous People and impacted on the Indigenous People or biodiversity biodiversity is the bridge going to try to touch on all of thosein issues. To get to ask questions for your about 30 minutes and then well open it up to all of you. And tina, are you all set. Can you hear is everything. Bangmacse can you hear me. Yes mz. Well then letssu start. Ill start by asking then, to just give us an assessment of where things stay on. I say it is hard to know by reading the papers. What is causing what right now and what is the brawl of fires and logging, they gag, big ranching, pup government policy, where does deforestation stay on. I want to see hello. Are we near the scary tipping points. What is going on. Peter thank you for the opportunity to be here with all of you. I say were all here because of these fires and deforestation is the spin in the news in the amazon. This is been over the past several months and peeking in the summer of august. I say its important to put this to the contacts. Fires occur all of thein time. Within the region and hardly inquiring. I say it is really important to note that in brazil in 2019, these fires were not induced by Climate Change. They were not driven by drought. And through the end of august, the 2019 dry season which is over now, was about 50 percent wetter than what we had seen in the previous few years. And yet on average, we had about 50 percent more fires. During that same period so the fires were not driven by drought. The drought season and the number of fridays, were fewer than in the past. The fires, that is really the first thing that i want take on from here. The second thing is that these were fires that were or occurred deliberately for the purpose of d4 station for the purpose of land clearing. And most of that, and when i say most, the estimates are 90 percent of that. It is illegal. Perhaps 30 percent of that is driven by speculators who are clearing public lots. This is the complex criminal enterprise in brazil in particular with many variations that are all aimed ultimately at la falsely legitimated cleared land and a huge markup. About another 30 percent occurred on private property. And mostly exceeding limits on deforestation that were agreed to in brazil in 2012 on a major revision of brazils forest code. It was agreed to by all of the major graph Business Associations in brazil. Another 20 percent, was likely small farmer clearing mostly on poorly managed reform settlements. In about 10 percent that occurred in areas that have no designated ownership. In like the first category, that is all land speculation. And if you find all of these databases, there into technical notes prepared by an amazonian institute for your environmental research. Overall, and this data official data that just came out this morning to make your own year, deforestation increases in the brazilian amazon by 30 percent. This year over last year. To nearly 10000 square kilometers, is the official data, the highest in the past decade. And its important to know that doesnt actually even cover the period where we are talking about which is mostly emerged, beginning in august because the d4 station year goes august one two july 31. And we certainly add several thousand square kilometers. Since then, between august and september and a bit into october. The point i want to make is that this mostly d4 station and the fires associated with it, both began and ended with the support of the executive branch of the brazilian government. It is prioritize, this current government has really prioritize the undoing of 15 years governmental progress in deforestation control. Fires peaked in the second and third weeks of august following what we are deliberately organized fired days. In parts of the amazon which were pretty much an open secret arth the responsible Government Agencies but what happened that was that no one truly counted on smokeure amount of reaching some follow. An blackening disguise and some follow for your about four days. And following that later that month, following what youve all read about in a lot of controversy in the international front, president said in theti army and declared a 60 day moratorium five fires in the region. Which. Fires stop being set. G d diminished and ultimately the dry season and the Government Support is responsible for your both starting and ending this problem is you. So as not deliberate turned on and off by government actions. Mark asked a little bit for your me to see something about this issue of tipping. That is him up in his. Its precise to see this very complex area run science but the consensus as more and more data is emerging is that we are very close particularly in the southern and eastern parts of the base into tipping. Where the combination of Land Use Change and Climate Change warming up forest wrote back. You can see the conversion of large areas, to savannah like trump call ecosystems. Ac over the coming years. Having said that, turn it back to you. Monaca, given this challenge, one of the options in the International Community facing the brazilian government. How can this challenge be addressed. So starting with International Community so i say there is one area where not a lot has been done and not a lot perhaps is barely reporting it. That is to do with payments for your environmental purposes. The question of conserving the amazon concerning the amazon in brazil, when the other countries that the amazon spans, is the service that is provided to the rest of the world because is the term that has come out that some people and i particularly like it. We go into the explanation but amazon is actually carbon mom in that it retains a lot of carbon on the soil. In the moment that you start divorcing, this carbon is released into the atmosphere in very large quantities. So the service that is being provided by keeping the forest intact, as im all of the carbon underneath the ground. There is an issue patio actually set up payment for your these kind of Environmental Services which could be very beneficial from the point of incentivizing government in particular governments that have now recently taken a different stance on deforestation and conservation of the amazon, and provides a powerful incentive for them to change the policy back to one of preserving and conserving. I say this is an area where the International Community has to say more about has to do something about because in essence we are talking about an empowered isle, that has his characteristic maintaining carbon underneath the soil and those services which are global in scale and theyre not being paid for your. So that i would see is one area that the International Community needs to say hard about. Her other things like the amazon fun for your example which is chiefly an initiative spearheaded by norway. In germany but largely norway which is served the purpose of trying to do a few things and conservation in deforestation within the amazon but we know that the size of the amazon fun small. In relative terms. And at the moment, their issues with amazon fund and the government at present. So this is another area course about has to go into sort of what do we do with the amazon fun. Do we make it larger. Do we ask for your more contributors. Her mother parts of the globe. Can they effectively do and how we set about Good Governance structure for your this fund if it is to become much larger and how do we do this in confidence with what the brazilian government currently wants. So thats another area and need to be but much more about a lot of reflection has to go into a nest for the government of brazil, there are lots of things and then reference some of them, it was is huge. Spanning from 20 oh four, until about 2014 or just before 2014. They felt dramatically because of the specific policy that was put in place and because we have tried in the past, and when the policy work. They involved a number of things, not just the monitoring in the big very sophisticated satellite imagery monitoring , Law Enforcement and coordination of the several environmentally things in brazil but also measures things like princess annette economy and particularly like this measure. The central bank of brazil, in 20 oh eight, instituted a raresolution that essentially created because of the Amazon Region, rural credit, actually in the Amazon Region specifically, raw credit is essentially provided by public banks. As of the central bank did, was institute and blacklist, the district within the amazon. Reduce our station occurring at a much higher pace, and when there was evidence that farmers, local farmers were not meeting the environmental regulations and the environmental north. In this blacklist, so anybody who is buying this blacklist, was essentially shut off from credit markets. There were not receiving any kind of access to credit. According to a lot of research that has been done on this initiative alone, that measure, just a measure serve to reduce deforestation by 20 percent in different parts of the amazon and inas the different parts of the amazon work was applied. So things of a this that have already worked. In essence youve got carrots and steaks and policies and things that have worked in the past, and the Central Bank Resolution that i mentioned, is still in effect. So it could be used and once again it has not been revoked. Its just that the current government has brought moving in that direction. Its not using, these tools but has available to it in fact, one of the things that he has done is dismantled to some extent, the capacity of the monitoring of the Law Enforcement abilities of the advert environmental inmate agencies. That is where we are. Thank you monaca, lets turn to peter. Peter, there are a lot of it other things to consider. The other amazonian, and the brawl of china, the brawl of indigenous communities in the amazon how do all of those players fit into this. Pretty directly. [laughter] i would see the part of the driver of deforestation, as we have talked about it, cultural commodities whether it is soy or beef. And so if you trace where the fires are taking place, and what commodities are being grown and where those commodities are diing, its in direct correlation. So there they is the increase in delivery of soy in particular to china. Beef to china, to russia to inegypt, so there is a direct correlation between this increase in actually, the war between the United States and china. The tariff award. Its an increase to the importing of soy and beef to those other countries. There is a Global Economic connection. Number two, its really intriguing to me is that the amazon which is 880 million hectares, one third of that, 30 percent of the 0ctually is one of thehe guardianship of recognized indigenous protected areas. So the constitution of brazil, is actually very clear as to the rights of the Indigenous Peoples. In a little bit of a site, president has actuallyy stated n speeches so that the institute that he admires the most, and the United States is been the u. S. Calvary because of its effectiveness in eliminating indigenous native americans. So what is happening in brazil now, has brought only 30 percent of the amazon on indigenous guardianship. But the government has said, those forced areas need to be access. We cant do it legally but we will look the other direction. So what is happening now is an assault on Indigenous Peoples rights and whats interesting about them as they are very effective in securing the health of these large territories that are their own. In fact if you look at maps right now the listed overlay of fires with indigenous territories, indigenous territories are actually the most secure of the territories actually resisting invasion of fire and agriculture. So Indigenous People play a very important brawl in securing the health of the amazon i should see about 35 percent of the entire terrestrial earth, is on the guardianship of Indigenous Peoples. And those of the territories on this planet that contain about 70 percent of the intact of ecosystems. Direct correlation, with Indigenous Peoples. That is just the state of the world. So we got some important allies and Indigenous Peoples, and we also need to be looking at those organizations that are directly involved in the financing in the trading of commodities so that we can continue actually get at the heart and solve some of these problems. I would like to, just for your a second on something that monica talked about. It is this concept of payment for your Ecosystem Services. An enormous brawl that brazil lays in terms of Carbon Capture and sequence. About 5 percent of the cmc that is human because is actually absorbed by amazonian parks. So there is an outsize brawl that the amazon place. And when we look at solutions, we need to look about what is in the resilience, in terms of not allowing a tipping. So that part become savannah, it would be devastating participation. Within brazil itself and so that is in the selfinterest to keep that part standing. When it emerges from the amazon, the waters and such and actually goes up into the carbon atmosphere rivers to benefit midwest in the United States. So there is a strong argument that this is the global good and there should be a common or a concerted thoughtful way to balance the benefits to brazil. And if its the rest of the world so i would just see this complex question for your sure. Its a very political question right now how you address the challenges in brazil and it is no less complicated than the challenges we are facing in the United States in terms of the political world. I wish there was an easy solution. And there has brought. We wish federal governments were doing more to address the climate challenge but for your a variety of reasons. In many cases do seem to be backing away. I say theyre doing everything they can there are to how much ngo can do but i say that the private sector to do more. So we know, during the periods of success in this deforestation, both international and Brazilian Companies play a very big brawl in helping brazil understand that it was in their self, their own selfinterest to get this right. And what can we do, is that the leper that is available for your us now. In the panelists, can they imagine the global multinational news Food Companies and Commodity Traders in the brazilian counterparts can take stronger action and boycotts these things. Rycause you would say that that would get the attention of the government as per the care about the economy in general and agribusiness. Is there a potential or what you guys say. I am happy to kickoff that part of the discussion. As peanut monica mentioned, there is clear evidence that there is self interest if we are looking at a loophole of a kind of a National Self interest public selfinterest. This this period of decline in the four sensation in the decade probably from 2004 2014 in brazil was accompanied by actual increases in revenue and poproduction from agriculture fm the very same places where deforestation was going down. That is because it has occurred in the u. S. , hundred 50 years ago, because this agricultural frontier innovation increases intensification increases, and production, they increase on those conditions. With that requires though, as it requires investment, and it requires factors that are functioningic within the boundsf the legal system. The legal system that is imposed in a democratic society. And what we have now in brazil is just as huge amounts of illegal activity. Its not the whole sector is acting illegally, far from it. There are many good actors in the sector like any other sector, there is a percentage of criminality. Thats in that space and because corruption and because of governance challenges, the percentage of criminality has brought in significant. It is going to continue to be acting in those ways that are in pursuit of selfinterest rather than public interest. As longs as it is competitively allowed. To doo so. In some cases, courage to do so because of a challenges around corruption that are deeply ingrained inen system. It doesnt mean that there are no points of intervention. The International Business community has a huge brawl to play. And it should seem selfevident. In response to the fires and in fact the number of International Business coalitions, put in goleta that they all sign that was probably supported of deforestation control agenda, supporting progressive business in brazil that was issued. There was an interesting sentence in that letter that said something to the effect that if you know Multinational Companies can afford to have in the illegality in his supply chains. When the risk of it. But thets fact is in itselfis commodity or agriculture from commodity supply chains and Precious Metals supply chains, they are full of illegalities. They see that they cannot and the risk of this but they are and have this in their supply chains consistently. And seemed not quite ready to root it out. We have an experience, and a very different sector, and evolved over the past two decades. Im sure you you in the audience here are familiar with worked in around conflict minerals are well have, where norms in commerce change. Actually in a remarkably short. So that the conditions of production associated with precious gems are now considered to be embedded in the product themselves. It is w both a norm as well as a matter of illegal matter, to not purchase conflict minerals. But what weve got now conflict commodities. There in the forum of whether it is Precious Metals like gold, of which are aboutre 90 percent is infected with illegality or self commodities that are much higher volumes and lower value. And they have deforestation in addition to the Rights Violations of indigenous and other peoples embedded in them. That is the Current Business norm. Not only in result with other countries but throughout the global marketplace. The saran commodities that are coming out of places in the developing world we dont have adequate governance. Its best to commit to those norms to change. Im not really on her side me say about the climate challenge. Monica or peter. Go ahead peter. Its going to comment some on something that then said. Go ahead. We have right now which is extraordinary powerful tool is social media. Social media shines a powerful live on companies that do the right thing and do the wrong thing. And you do not want to be seen as a predator versus a partner. And so that is really the power. It affects the mood, in the sense of value and employees and companies when their companies are criticized. It is in a normal sleep important tool. And that tool needs to be deployed. And needs to be focused on this financing it and who is buying it. I say that if that were to happen, you will see thats how transformation takes place. That is what happened with the mining industry. It was a clear demand by the public that this was behavior that could not be tolerated. On the private sector plays an enormously important brawl. If you look at the discussion between the administer of agriculture and the president in brazil, the administrator of agriculture is extraordinarily important who is going to buy the products were going to grown if the european markets as we will not buy those soy or beef that comes from the recently deforested territories, that will effect the behavior of the government of brazil. In china which is the very important purchaser, they would do the same thing, that would push it right o over the edge. I dont expect that to happen especially in regards to china because china has a policy of not interfering with international countries. There are tools that can be deployed and they have to be deployed. In consumer has to be part of this because the consumer news voice, the americans consumers will reflect the american political actions as well so i would just see there is an important brawl to play. And in the United States, the private sector, in particular is very sensitive to the sounds that resonate in the public and in the media. I i will ask one more questin than i will turn t it over to al of you. Monica new mentioned payment for your echo system which everybody gderstands. Amazon places important brawl globally. In regulating the climate. So i make this happen. My understanding is brazil recently rejected eight on the d7 would you good news and offer isr your an Ecosystem Service so what are the practical things to do here. There are two issues here. So on the one hand, when it comes to aid in what was offered by the european union, theres this question of sovereignty that is always very ill resolved. And we are speaking about this as we were having lunch. The way that countries and other government sort of talk to governments like the government of brazil, is very important. You can just go in and accuse. You have to engage in a different way. Because otherwise, nor directly infringing on this issue of sovereignty. In actually playingyo into, potentially governments nationals leaning. That is inevitably going to happen. So that kind of engagement needs to change. It cant just be about an accusatory dive boat dynamic because it doesnt work. And i say weve seen an interaction between the president s, how that can go overboard very. Quickly. I say theres an issue there has to be better dealt with. And the question of payments for your Environmental Services specifically, of course Something Like this service at the amazon provides, which were all speaking of, these are services that economists will call public goods. Their benefits accrue to the public at large. Theyre not privately accrued. Pricing public goods, is one of ote things that the economic profession has grappled with over the years. We have managed to find ways of pricing public goods great this is exactly we need to figure out what is the best way to price the public goods which is the issue of carbon in the amazon. It is complicated and it is even more complicated by the fact that you need actual coordination between private sector and the government and the government of different parts of the world. Yes, it gets much more complicated because of that because you do know the need that coordination in the world today has brought really a world where you see much. In their sand at all. In fact, its going sort of the opposite direction. It is complicated by all of those factors when it is something we do know how to do and we know how to price public goods. It should be something that is doable. It should be something that is feasible. We see one final kind of touches on what then was staying before. That has to do is you were ask asking the question what brawl the private sector can play, there is one crucial issue in the amazon in the brazilian amazon as a whole. Just to do with my right and who owns what piece of land. To a large degree, with the exception of the brazilian constitution covers, and the issues that peter was raising, there are areas in the amazon where land is unclear. Sucker who owns it and even when it is kind of clear is still not all that clear. It is something that the brazilian government specifically has struggled with for your a very long time. Hasnt really been able to resolve that and the administration said it is one issue they want to address that they have a set exactly how. Addressing this issue also involves one otherpe thing. And has to do with something that theny, said. Dealing with the distorted instinctive which currently exist because of this complication and tenure and land rights. Which lead to deforested land being worth more than land that actually has a standing forest on. And that is a recipe for your speculation. And its the dive boat land speculation that we have seen. Again, as an economic design everything. You can design policies to correct those distortions but ultimately you kind of have to do this all within one strategy and you doo have to have preparations from private sector and government. President of columbia, gotomeeting in the little town of leticia which is adjacent to the brazilian amazon but it is in the colombian amazon. He invited all of the heads of states of the amazonian patients to attend. In all of themat participated. It was after recognition that there was an extraordinary increase in buyers and the only president did not write was present at both the in a row but he was having an operation. He called into the meeting. And out of that gathering came something leticia packed which is now been activated and not with solutions, but activated in terms of a conversation amongst the heads of state and the listeners of environment. How do they collaborate in terms of dressing the invasion and the burning in the fires, the damage. Within the amazon itself. They have actually put together a small task of course of a small group of people to actually come up with recommendations as to pathways forward. There are a few things that have emerged as kind of an essential ingredients for your solving these challenges. One is realtime and accurate data. Where are the fires and honey deploy in real time, brigades to put out the fires. Another one and put together a Significant Fund for your investing in reforestation. Because it not only increases the carbon absorption, but also creates livelihoods and jobs. And third, is really recognizing and doing the rights of Indigenous Peoples. In the fourth was generating the revenue so that the protected areas that can exist can only be secured. And another is really happening in engagement with the commodities and the agriculture industry to look at one of the effectiveness for your their behaviors to shift into one of enthusiastic compliance instead of can we actually get around this one way or another. So these conversations, are ongoing. And what is interesting is that brazil has committed to being a formal part of this. There is a serious amount of pressure being placed on brazil just to acknowledge that if you do not, this could very well affect a flow of the system and it could affect private sector engagement as u. S. Earlier and more and brazilian commodity markets. So it is in real time to be playing out right now. Well see. Well see what thepl results are but i just wanted to mention that two k is really spearheaded this in a very thoughtful way. Thanks peter. Lets open it up to the audience. We have mikes away. Here comes the mic. I own a ranch for the last 20 years and ron gioia, in the heart of the amazon. Is it natural forest and nobody touches itma because its a lotf her name to condemn the hectors of of course. This is. [inaudible conversation] so, about ten years ago, somebody offered me, 250 square miles of intact forest. So i contacted a person asking them to come out. Conservationists international sent out somebody to let them know. He came with a in a row plane flown by a very wellknown person for your flying around the amazon. Sometimes carrying interesting substances. But he shared up with this other fivefold knowledgeable person. They flew my ranch and they found all sides and kinds of monkeys. The president and they found them in great numbers. Some extinct amazonian news, fox and monkeys. In the name of the largest, they say, the largest alligators they have ever seen. One is in florida but ours grow very big. [laughter] but anyway i said i am wheeling to buy the land, give it to you, and you simply look after it. What happened is that they said no. And they flew off. Nothing ever happened. Every other ngo i contacted, none of them were wheeling to do it. And by the way, my neighbors just died. And his suns want to sell the land. And it costs about 13 an acre and 35 an acre depending on what you get. You are getting intact plan. Where the of course has never been cut. It is full of wildlife. My experience so far is that there are thousands of ngos world of conferences and meetings and such and nobody is actually, theyre not wheeling to spend 35 an acre. And actually 50 a hectare. And you can buy and do with what i did. Ive put cows in it in the savanna which was always savanna, it was never deforested. By the way, this home, i dont know what is happening brazil with the smoke we are getting is the gift from run, tanya. Because we are right on the border. It has not increased in recent years as far as we know. But this is subjective. So i dont know what else happens elsewhere. The final. , however burns thet rain forest, i dont know how to do it. They must cover in fuel. Because the of course that they are covering, it is kind of a wood that kind of stuff that really does dry out but the actual rain forest, you cannot burn it. Do have a question. Sector yes, none of this discussion so far reflects the facts. We have a population of thousands of ngos. All around the world live and amazonian domain and none of them do the simplest thing, which is to buy a ticket. By 3 hectares, and lets see, 10 a week, to do this. I will turn a view peter but who knows, in the particular case why didnt the ngo step up and buy. But i challenge the idea that that is the solution is scale here. This is for your nonprofit ngos funded by donors to raise the capital to buy the amazon. But peter, a gentleman entered your Great Organization contribution international. Lauderhill from peter now. Peter i like his email, and i would like to see if this offer still stands number one. Number two, the very first, okay in bolivia, the very First Initiative of this international in 1987, was to do something, but a nature swap where we have acquired libyan debt and traded with the government of libya to create the many biased reserves. In santa cruz. At isgo an area of extraordinary ecological importance. And so i am interested in learning more about that particular opportunity. Number one. And number two, and more, i say you are absolutely right, to get to the skill of solution, the is going to be required has brought going to be the acquisition of individuals properties. Because you just cant or wont be able to get to the skill that you are looking at territory in the amazon which is about 880 million hectors. But i also want to see that i really appreciate the interest of the speaker. To raise that question becauseon that approach to and that willingness to engage in an instructed solution is really important. That is why its important to continue that conversation. His stomach will said peter. I agree with you. Other questions or challenges. Yes sir. I am from the embassy here in dc. When we speak about the paying for your ecosystems, many to mention that a brazilian about 1 million for your reduced deforestation. And her name has been going to amazon fund, and i come to the question. So monica, you mentioned how you say we can scale up, as you see it is is it too small. Spirit so i am deeply grateful. I say a lot of people are grateful to norway for your the efforts with the amazon fund. And also for your being the main funder actually. It is almost entirely norway. I say it is or when it was set up, it was one of the first red plus initiatives by the un. In the context of the human and i say that it has and is still has a lot of potential. It would of course involve ringing other countries and and given that norway has already done a lot of its share. And it is a question of what we want to do with this fund. Do we want to make it into something much larger we do can actually have an impact. And even perhaps address the issues that the gentlemen news here to write has raised. What do we want to do with it. What is the strategy. And i say that question involves a very large extent, where the government of brazil is thinking of doing. At the moment, they dont seem very inclined to make the amazon fund one of the main sort of mechanisms or vehicles through or by which you can resolve the conservation aspect into the dean for your station at s are great in fact they seem to be moving in the opposite direction. Youve recently talked about changing the governmentt structure of the fund. The recently talk about doing several things to the fund that norway rightly disagrees with. As it is germany. And so at the moment, there is a sdivergence. In terms of those of actually fund the fund and actually present provides it in the way the brazilian government is going about it. So i say we need to find some comfort common ground. The amazon fund is really important. We dont need Something Else to replace it. We already have it. We have it in the forum of the amazon fund read. Then let me just add that. Say the norwegian government provided an extraordinarily leadership. One of the most remarkable things about it is that is persistent from one government to the next. In norway which which is to completely foreign concept. It was always viewed and engaged with working with colleagues involved in running that fund for your a very long time. It is always been viewed as a pilot. As an experiment ski experiment. Not as the thing that was going to solve the worlds problems. And one of the challenges that comes up currently is we do look at the kind of scaling monica is talking about which i say we all recognize is need it, is who is going to pay for your it. Where is the her name going to come from. Its not all going to come from the generous government of that small cut scandinavian government country that has 5 Million People in it. And there is interest in this kind of work emerging from the private sector. We really need to be able to use Public Finance to Leverage Private sector investments in the space. And it creates challenges. A krantz challenges for the Environmental Community for your the private sector is self, for your thinking about where does this problem come from. And how are we going to solve it. In one of the more interesting experiments, going on now is from aim space that is often considered to be the enemies of the environment. Gas industry. There are a number of Energy Sector companies that see the opportunity to actually be funding this kind of work in the forest sector as it means of addressing the fact that they are la gasoline to all of us. Right. All of us are in this. They are la gasoline to all of us and that gasoline is contributing to the limit change problem. An example of this and the netherlands has been experimenting with allowing people to pay an extra euro since per liter of gasoline. Wish me to the mat in outs up to pretty much the same amount that the norwegian government is paying. Paying into the amazon fund which is 5. 10. Its expanded the program now to encompass a large number of people who are in the uk. Theyre using that her name to buy credits. Buy credits from theth highest Quality Projects that are contributing for your helping to reduce emissions through the of course. In Southeast Asia and improve. Theyve got tens of millions of dollars and hundreds of millions of dollars that they are planning to invest in this space. Its only them or others as e. Well. The mentality of the structure is for your this emergent market that could be very large scale around these kinds of payments. Theyre just starting to get formed. And is largely in the space of experimentation now but i would surmise from just what weve been seeing over the past deca decade. The past two decades its not going to happen based on 4 feet. Its not a problem that foreign aid is going solve. D it is a problem that we are all part of because we are all consumers. And the companies that the service our needs, we are going to need to be part of the solution has brought going to be governments alone that addresses it. Thanks very much. Catherine marshall from georgetown university. When active not mentioned is the pope. Broader interreligious, with that rain forest and very initiative, the amazon senate. Just earlier this month. I have two questions. One is, first of all, the certain moral voice. What more could be done that. And then secondly, with the uc practical steps, that what is after all an enormous whtransnational forest and might be mobilized to do something about something that they have actually grossed as a priority issue. Summa great question. Peter, you want to talk about the pope. I have extraordinary admiration for the pope. And for the standing and the polish and his commitment. I dont know yet, whether the extraordinary inspiration that he provides people is going to actually be converted into transformations in the way governments avoid to behave or it is going to result in a change in the behavior of Agricultural Commodities and exploiters of of course. I do know inspiring the Indigenous Peoples. And its an inspiring young people to become engaged and the most hopeful part now at this moment hopeful part of the igimate that took place in new york a couple months ago, was the raising of voice of young people. Days as a core part of its political support. We have a complex set of issues and respect to religion. Go ahead. Thank you. I am with the brazil u. S. Business council. Just a piece of information. I have a question. The brazilian government has reached out to us to initiate a dialogue that we kicked off last week on sustainability and resource efficiency. The brazilian government is putting out the table the amazon issue and asking us to help bring with this dialogue a private sector. Its been very positive. It is how you engage with the brazilian government that is extremely important. Sustainable investment is part of this dialogue that we have with the brazilian government. My question is the following. What is the real narrative here . I keep getting confusing information. I see graphs such as this one on the handout such that the deforestation has been rising for the past 15 years. Why is the real story, the forest i say should really on the decline or is it really rising . My recent paper is very clear about this. For those that are interested, i have a paper published. It has, googling it is fairly easy. I have the data on there from the Brazilian National space institute. If you look at the Historical Data that it collects, it starts off in 1988 and it shows a very clear pattern. And then that trend, in 2004 we reached the critical point. From that point onward, the governments that followed were all looking at the issue of deforestation and putting in place policies to reduce it. Between 2004 and 2014 what you see is a very dramatic reduction in deforestation of over 80 starting from the base point of 2004. What has happened since, when you you look at then, 2014 onward what has happened to deforestation, the rates of deforestation began to rise again in 2015. Two years where deforestation picked up. Especially in brazil. Those two years, brazil was was in recession. A lot of budget cuts to the environmental agencies that were responsible for monitoring and that of course had an effect on deforestation. By 2017, 2018, the situation in brazil specifically was still not solid. You still saw a relative uptick in deforestation. In 2019, it really takes off. As just a matter of looking at the data. It is all there. Time for one more question. Yes, sir. Steve rock. Center for climate security. I would also like to commend norway for the tremendous role that you played in a really creative way with your commitment to the rain forest and amazon in columbia. My question for the panel is, how is the vast tracks of rain forest now open, since the peace process, the first peace treaty that had sustainability at its core, how is that going since the park has laid down their arms and open the area for our culture and other things . Deforestation in columbia. Peter. I dont know the data. The first is, i wanted to just comment on norway real quickly. Norway has done an extraordinary thing and providing the funding for liberia, guyana, brazil, other countries, indonesia to really take on deforestation. That has really been transformative. We are now seeing the real resistance, especially in brazil i would like to encourage norway to think about a different approach. Begin to explore the possibility of relationships with some national actors. Like different states in brazil as opposed to just dealing with the Data National level. Some of the other states that have massive importance for rain forests. They are ready and have governors willing and able to engage. I know there are complications, but there should be a way to do that. I also suggest that one way to increase the Resources Available since this is such a powerful and potent issue today, the health of rain forests is, for the government of norway to make these Funds Available are crowd forcing. Crowd forcing to matt match it so we can double the money. I think we need to think creatively how do we leverage the funds from norway. It has nothing to do with columbia. Columbia has really been intriguing. Although the peace treaty has resulted in laying down of arms, it has also resulted in a lot of people coming back to their territories, their homelands and their home areas in columbia and looking for work. One of the results has been searching for the opportunity and one of those opportunities has been logging deforestation. Columbia is caught in a twist in between. There is been a great impact. A great interest in the creation of larger protected areas by president santos. We are seeing a real increase in the number of protected areas. At the same time, an increase in deforestation. One of the things that is happening in columbia, led by the government of columbia in the military of columbia, trying to provide Employment Opportunities to those people that have weighed down their weapons for reforesting. There is an area in the western side of columbia where there is a major Reforestation Effort that is actually being financed. Cis involved in another organization. A great Employment Opportunity for those people that lay down their weapons and are now looking for good unemployment. We have to bring this live lay conversation to an end. Lots to talk about. Please join me in thanking our panelists. The u. S. Senate applause nevermind rss caption not as if i would really like to see if this will focus more on how to fix things or not. Including how this would impact the constitutional amendments and there are Different Solutions regarding these questionable politics and, you know, the rampant situation of what is going on for restoring our democracy. I would like the senate to focus more on Foreign Policy and cutting back the active military complex, because i really think that it is something that would benefit the region. Because we have a lot of people that are forced into the military and then they never come back home. And i would also think that we need to cut spending in the military. We are out almost 8 billion per year. And i also think that it would help the immigration crisis. Because i think that we need to stop the nefarious activities that are overthrowing this in Central America and replacing them, replacing dictators and others. Voices on the road. Current and former government officials spoke at a recent conference. In this portion senator joni earnst talked about this situation. We would like to welcome the senator from iowa to join us in making some
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