Transcripts For CSPAN2 In Depth Naomi Klein 20240713

Which was the four years before that, in the period where lot was changing and you have the first kind of old logo lifestyle brands. Well take it for granted now these were companies for the first time, were declaring their business w by was not to sell products but to sell ideas lifestyle, the sense of belonging they could extend into kind of selff enclosed branded cocoons. They could sell everything as long as it was granted with this logo. So nike was the first one to do this. They didnt ever owney the factories and the main thing that i learned when i was researching, no logo, there was a relationship between the aggressive kind of marketing that was constantly sort of trolling Youth Culture to find the most cutting edge ideas to get into places they never had before like schools to co brand with like Music Festivals and so on it was an inverse relationship between that aggressive marketing and the kind of good jobs that were offered. In the economywa and the way the economy source bring up money on this Lifestyle Marketing was divesting from their factories. From there ideas that they should be produced at all. So nike, paved the way in the sense because in around their factories in the first place. They made their Running Shoes are a web of contractors and subcontractors who they pitted against one another so could provide issues for the lowest price. This was such a profitable Business Model that all of the competitors started tilting the factories and never reopening them. That wasas the key thing, they never reopen them. We havent talked about factories moving from north america to mexico and china vietnam, but in fact it wasnt just that they were moving locations, is that they were never owning the factories. They didnt see themselves asse producers. If we related to the industrialization and the precariousness that was sort of take for granted today. Head as you. Out, i can particular getting a lot of criticism from itsit customers. At the time cobit because it was new. It. C this was still in america that remembered t the manufacturing model where you understood that there are products, your buying the car new world was made in where the economic anchor was for the community that the idea for people making cars should have enough money to buy the cars. It was culturally shocking for people to discover that these Companies Like like nike or disney were spinning so much money putting up images of themselves that were very very progressive or in cases of disneys case very familyfriendly you pull back the curtain and wait a minute, in some cases children or people justst a little bit but not beig children, people in their early 20s. They are making these products and verbally abusive conditions. With that was exposed, it was a scandal. Twenty years later, people take it for granted that almost all the products in our live are made onnd conditions that are pretty dubious. You got electronic factories in china and have suicide nets to catch people when they commit suicide because they are so desperate for the job. They is one of the toughest things to think about. They about what has changed since her logo and the sense of shock that i was attracting, i cant believe that nike are made by 18 yearolds in indonesia who are sleeping in cramped dormitories and not getting paid for their overtime or having to pretty in bottles on their sewing machines and all of these scandals. There genuinely scandals. I think people sense of shock and outrage about this, almost i can jump on latenight television. You a couple a of examples in your book, one of starbucks. The coffee shop opened up inspired by starbucks, run away from starbucks brand. Those example from the ten Year Anniversary edition of the logo. In the originale edition, they came in 2000, had a fair pit about or relatively new company, starbucks who told us that their brands meaning was that they were what they called the third place, not home not work, and our plea where people could gather. They were really using this discourse of the public fear almost like a town square. There is sort of interesting that this was happening in the 90s after you have this very aggressive cognitive private tatian of the public fear. Corporations came so long and said we were as pseudo town square. The corporate digital town square in the 90s it was starbucks you have a cup of coffee and your pseudo public space. Then when i wrote an introduction tohe the tenth anniversary. Starbucks had just openedit up a coffee shop in seattle that was completely unbranded. He didnt see logo anywhere when she knew the marker which how far they hadll fallen. Add in order to recapture in a sort of newness, they had to and bred themselves. Sort of a political spear. You talk about president obama in one ofve the questions is did he live upba to his open change brand. Diddy. Yeah, early in the obama years when i wrote that. Well, i think there was always something a little bit nicety about the obama brand in the sense that it was big enough that is hard to pin him down to a clear political platform. Its another interesting measure for we are now because there is more, if you look at the democratic primaries right now, i think there is more than an expectation that candidates have a real nice pacific and fully formed platform economic platform, policy platform and environmental pull environmental policy platform. By theme of the Obama Campaign in 2008 which ii was writing about, is preventing very much like im going too recapture a sense of optimism and you are not going to be ashamed of america. People are tired from eight years ofir bush. We want change and feeling good. Thats why wrote about that. The First Political campaign that used the same tools that these Corporate Lifestyle grants had beennd using. To sort of pay themselves in an aura of progressiven his. So the question is did obama live up to it. Its a complicated question the sense that it never was very specific. Its hard to say 20 both of he lived up to it or not. Off of he did specifically respond he was going to take on wall street. Theres a huge amount of disappointment that people had helped there would be an reinvestment and Small Businesses and maybe more factory jobs, were very disappointed byar that. This part of a global phenomenon where liberal politicians come to power with this sort of veneer of progressivism and change but the economy continues to make people feel excluded. And more insecure. That sets the stage for the kind of right wing populism that we are seeing surged worldwide. Also specific factors relating to obama being sort of the black president and a racial backlash in the United States. But its also important to remember that there is a global phenomenon of this right wing populism that we see everywhere. You join us on twitter and to be. Our book our author naomi klein, is here with us. Your teaching at westward university, how you frame this in your book your original booking or ten Year Anniversary edition. Im actually teaching class called their corporate self. Looks at the integration of the human and the corporation. Sort of corporations trying to act more like a few months. The original bad, were all about that. Today sort of a comforting safe uncle bens or edge of my math, much of it racialized and talking sort of nostalgia about plantation live and we look at the racial history branding. And then where no logo ends is remember the industry in the late 1990s, this then completely new idea that a few months like everyday a few months, not celebrities need it to become their own brand in order to succeed in this newly precarious job environment. Nobody can expect job security so the way to get ahead, is to find your interbrand and projected onto the world. This is after we seen celebrities do this in the book i talk a lot about George Michael jordan. Super brand. Then we look at whats happening with social media. Years ago, is the pretty notional idea, the idea that anybody could be done brand. Anybody doesnt have the money o to take i out ads. Today in social media everybody has theas capacity to market themselves and to market an idea ofof themselves. To think about the brand. Its very different than what might. Have a wonderful poem of students who, first of all we talk about how this, even though they have grown up with this idea, it is relatively new idea. It was not always the case you wouldve been looked at if you are mad 30 years ago to say a 15 yearold kid, but not what do you want to be monday grow up. But what is your brand. [laughter] we try to make visible some of the thingss that they make for granted. And think about what is the main to have to separate yourself from the idea of yourself. To have that distancing. And what does that to friendships and relationships and what he do to social movement. Its been fascinating to unpack this with them because of course they know a lot more about socialno media that i do so they are teaching me all the time. But then to sort of latest phase of this that we are instantly connected online and is sort of constant performance of our brand. Is that the Tech Industry sees data his new oil that is often repeated so they are mining ourselves, mining all of the information that we are sharing. Theyre doing this for their Business Model, that we are not getting any part of. We are not paid for the data that we are providing for free. So were looking at all these questions on surveillance and data mining which isti called shaun his calling it surveillance capitalism. Its interesting, once again to see how much has c changed sinci wrote that now. Now thats quite book. The newest book, agree new deal. From this question in terms of the new deal. You write a lot about how that essentially transform the country and the world. I think theres inspiration to be taken in the original new deal and also someti very importantew warnings to heat frm that era. So monday people were excluded from the protections on fdr his new deal. Monday africanamericans work and Domestic Workers and women, wereke excluded agriculturists were excluded. There was systemic demos ration and disaggregation in the new program. It is also true that the United States transformed itself at a speed and scale that is comparable to the kind of speed and skill change that we knew and that we need to embrace if were going to lower inventions in line with what scientists are telling us. They are gone, the intergovernmental mental panel on the foremost gathering on the experts advisemo governments on the state of climate science, issued a report a year ago staying that we need to cut global emissions in half in a mere 12 years which is now 11 years. And they said and this is the quote from the summary of the report, this would require unprecedented transformation and opera charlie every aspect of society, energy transportation, agriculture, buildingin construction. There arent monday points in history we do can say this is the time when we saw that kind of failed transformation. One is when youre in Second World War we do had americans planting Victory Gardens and gettingpl 40 percent of the profits and those gardens. We saw factories transform themselves very rapidly. The new deal is the another area which is less topdown. Its been useful to historical precedents for us to look at. E these dont think that we want governmentso telling everybody what they should do. I think we should worry about that kind of climate also carries this, when youre in the new deal era, you sound rural america, electrified and more than 10 million americans directly employed, renaissance publicly funded arts and all kinds of Public Infrastructure schools libraries, the reservoirs, and much of the americans Public Infrastructure today is the legacy of the new deal. Another part of it is quite relevant thinking about new Green New Deal is in fdr his conservation corps was probably the most popular of the new deal program. Its a a reminder that the new deal was not only responding to an economic crisis, was also responding to an ecological crisis because of the dustis bol and prices ofs deportation. The ccc, spent more than poor young people from cities, to hundreds of camps in rural parts of thef united stats and they would have plant 2. 3 billion trees which is more than half of the trees ever planted. That sort of skill is really ndimportant and also the kind of thing that we need to do to pull carbon out of the atmosphere in the face of the limit change. Part of what makes Climate Change so very difficult for monday of us to grasp so we live in a culture of contextual present. One that deliberately separates itself from the past and created us in the future. We are shaping with our actions. So a lot of what im doing in this book, is trying to make visible, the Economic Systems and the sort of relatively new economic and social models. Its born of the particular kind of capitalism that weve had since the reagan era. It has been all about deregulation and privatization and venerating the individual consumers and equating shopping with democracy of the good live. That is produced an extremely accelerated culture which that people. To and say was just human nature. We cant deal with a crisis like im a change. Because clearly we are just is it too selfish and to individual mistake and think to t short te. And it requires on a timeframe and the collective good ahead of something that you might just want rightt now to satisfy an individual urge. So theres been a lot written that has made this h human natue argument why we will never respond to this crisis. But i find what im talking about what we need to do in the face of this crisis whichf i obviously do a fair w pit, i fid that the biggest obstacle that we are up against its not Climate Change denial which is definitely on the way, as of the lack of technology or understanding of what needs to be done. It is truly the sense of dume that we as human beings, are incapable of doing the things that are necessary. That is why you think it is important to draw on these historical precedents that even if they are not exactly the kind of thing you need to do now, they do show that there are different ways of being a few months in the live span of people alive today, people were able to think longer term and were able to up as a collective good ahead of their individual desires and and there are people Indigenous People in north america who teach their children to w think seven generations ino the future and seven generations in the past. So im trying to do is guess problem the ties these sorts of appeals to human nature that we hear a lot of. Thats equating it particular relatively recent forum of deregulated capitalism with the idea of annies needs to be human. While we cant change the laws of nature, we actually can change the system that we a few months to create ourselves if they are threatening live on earth. In fact me to do that. I think it is easy, im staying as possible. Mary hewitt apple picking yesterday yesterday, you moved around a lot though. For those who dont know naomi klein. Spent a few minutes to tell your live story. Just a minute. [laughter] yet so i was born in canada inn montreal. My parents aremo americans. My parents are peace activists in the 1960s. My father did noto want to go to vietnam. And he had to choose between jail canada and like monday of his peers, he chose canada. He moved to montreal. Later moved back to the states and for a few years when i was very young. Before i was five yearsrs old. The decided that they liked canada better so i sometimes say that we left because of the work that we stayed for the universal public healthcare. [laughter] my mother is the documentary filmmaker now retired. She worked for the National Film board of canada. As the first womens film studio. She made some really forward feminist movements. So i grew up with politicalen parents. I father worked inn the canadian Healthcare System involved in bringing midwives into the hospitals and big advocate for Natural Childbirth the family dr. Retired now. Yes, i wouldnt say i was like group in a really radical, i have friends who really had f serious radical parents and they were homeschooled and their parents really walks the talk. Grew up between worlds with their values i suppose but going to regular schools in the 1980s. So i sort of felt very pull between culture of the 1980s which was very shiny and appealing to me and my home live where my parents were seeing what he woulddo hang out with yr friends at the mall. What is there at the mall. Would you ever want to do Something Like that. [laughter]. So maybe thats why i wrote no zone in my 20s. My cuban patient. From florida welcome to theon conversation. Hi nice to speak withea you. My main problem with the whole thing is the amount of energy that is required is it possible. In the technologies just arent going to be there. This is the pie in the sky dive boate thinking. We need the fossil fuels. Theres no doubt about it. In the foreseeable future. The other thing was to see environment that self, how do you explain the ice age. 10000 years mike let her made it through. Select cancer. Thanks for your question. So i was going to urge you to look up the work of and more jameson at stanford university, he is the professor of engineering whos got a big team and really specific research about how in fact, it is possible existing technology to get to hundred Percent Renewable Energy very rapidly for electricity, transportation afterwards, in line with what sizes are telling us n we need o do. There have been huge breakthroughs in Battery Storage and price breaks as well. Cost of Renewable Energy. I would actually disagree, i think it is possible. Like they said, im not staying it is easy, i think the barriers are much more political than they are technological. Thats precisely what the government on Climate Change said when they said this target of having emissions in 12 years. And that report. I want to stress that that is a report to join 6000 sources. Of peerreviewed science. Its just not like a one off. For it was coauthored by almost a hundred authors and reviewers. It is a stateoftheart science and they said actually we can meet these targets with existing technology and the barrier is political. In terms of the reason for the ice age, there is a few factors, one is the High Altitude volcano that dims the sun. This is why sometimes in my opinion, quite frightening would be geo engineers talking about howe one way we can deal with climate disruption is by imitating a High Altitude volcano by spraying silver into the upper atmosphere and reflecting more of the sun his rays away from earth. So that is one of the main reasons behind the little ice age. Another reason i do talk about in the book was that this followed an genocide against Indigenous People in the americas. Theres been some new science that looks at how this huge loss of live of monday millions of people in the americas, not to a report station and revegetation and that was part of it as well. We go to norwalk, connectic connecticut. Steve, go ahead please. Hi, good morning naomi. Can you hear m me. We sure can. First, lets eliminate batteries. To make electric power to go into a battery, using fossil fuel, you dont eliminate one molecule of co2. So i y cant believe you wouldnt know that. But to evidently dont know that. I cannot believe that all these senators running for president , never mention Hydrogen Fuel cells. They happen to be the only remedy to eliminate the co2. There is no co2. We do use Hydrogen Fuel cells. It is that simple. I have sick you messages on your facebook, numerous times and i dont know if you actually read this, or you just dismiss it or what you do but anyway, you never mention Hydrogen Fuel cells. None of the candidates mention Hydrogen Fuel cells. It is the only remedy. Im going to have a meeting with hakeem jeffries, soon i hope. To discuss this. The title of my book, is reparations. Because what i am suggesting is, that there needs to be over a Million People necessary to do the work to completely change from fossil fuel electric power to Hydrogen Fuel cell electric eswer will get a response and thank you for your questions and comments. I think the reason why the callers not i can take a response is because of the monday of the candidates out why this idea is it seriously is because its in a serious idea, it is actually true that Renewable Power has been radicallyuc reduced emissions which are not say that there are a measurement to any technology. Including the local environmental impacts of mining for rare metals and for solar power and wind power. Which is why in the book i talk about the fact that we cant think of this is simply flipping a switch from fossil fuels through nobles and Everything Else staying exactly the same. We do have a problem. A real problem of overconsumption particular overconsumption with a sort of a disposable mindset. The wealthywo world. Theres going to have to be and we are going to have to let granted to merced at the United Nationss. Its a fairytale infinite growth. Talk about the 20th percent of the wealthiest people in the americas, that are responsible for 70 percent of. Going to have to live with the average of the european, generally recognized as the world his leading Emission Reduction expert ispe staying tt we have to live like the average european. It is so important to be looking at the areas where we can afford to expand. Like healthcare and childcare in the arts, like areas their already low carbon and can be made for low carbon. The going to have to be let some Lifestyle Changes are people who are over consuming but that doesnt mean its all contractual. L from sweden, 16 yearold, why do you think her voice out of 70 is resonating. These obligated question. I think that there are monday voices as well as gratis who should be resonating and who have been trying to get the world his attention for very long time. Ive been going tory un climate summits for about a decade now there is been incredibly powerful world voices coming from the marshall islands, there was an incredible speech made at the United Nations in 2014 by a woman from the marshall islands, young woman named kathy degenerate, who wrote a poem to her nine month old baby and she read it to the assembled representatives and it was an incredible speech that shouldve gone as viralnc as any of gratis speeches. So i. This out that there been other moments a few late years later, when when the guy hit the philippines at the very moment that there was a summit happening on Climate Change. And the representative from the philippines, didnt know both of his family was safe or not. They broke down crying in front of the entire assembly. That shouldve gone as viral as any of gratis speeches. To be perfectly honest with you, i think there is a an issue around the fact that she is the white girl from sweden. As part of why her voice breakthrough when other voices who have really in the frontlines of this crisis, who are living it, and from appeals act absolutely existential. As it does to have been a part. I think shes also a remarkable young woman and i have so much respect for her. I think she is the prophetic voice. I think that these other voices that ive spoken about before likeli kathy and the guy in the philippines, i can. To monday others. El but greta is remarkable and i think there is something about greta and that she so clearly its not performing for anyone. Shes not looking for anyone to like her. Coming back to her talking about earlier, we live in a culture where everybody is constantly performing a version of themselves. Everybody is interested in being famous, and in promoting themselves. Greta could not be less interested in this. I can tell you know her. She is just a 100 percent focused on the science. She talked about how handyman diagnosis with aspergers, she said i am not interested in your social games. As somebody on the autism spectrum. I think theres how uninterested she is in our opinion of her that makes for a very trusted messenger for a lot of people. Obviously she faces massive attacks and she is very clear minded about why she is being attacked by the likes of donald trump and Butner Hooton and armies of patrol rid it is because she is part of building a Global Movement that is growing at exponential speed. There were 7 Million People who participated in the World Climate strikeses over an eight day period that is unprecedented in the history of the planet. So credit is part of an Amazing Movement and the first person to say its not about me, it is about a movement of young people coming together. Will be go back to anf ear earlier. That you made, so the sole driver, they are the biggest and you write that in incremental approach will not work. A question though is can we afford the Green New Deal. The price tag ista into the billions of dollars. Isnt just fossil fuels, social agriculture is another majorr driver. So can we afford it. Thereve been studies about how much it would actually cost us in the road we are on and not try to avert catastrophic levels of farming. The road we are on companies forming around 4 degrees celsius. On average we are at 1 degree celsius. If we continue withg business s usual, and that means just doing what we are now, which is nothing and make the problem worse is exactly what travis been doing and in brazil is doing. That leads to somewhere between four to 6 degrees of warming. That is not compatible with anything weve described as organized civilization. It would threaten every single coastal city. The priceciat tag. Well before the end of the century. We need to recognize that a lot of the estimates about when things are going to get really serious, have underestimated the speed of which they start to unravel. Were expecting to lose our seas as we are losing it, september it was the hottest september on record, july was the hottest month ever recorded june was the hottest june never reported, it is happening really fast. And so, you asked the time. There are different estimates. I would say the time period of children alive on this planet, we would be silly seeing absolute catastrophic levels. We do start costing out what it would mean to lose new york city or shanghai, there is literally a not none of in the planet to cost about. So i can make an argument to you that is a bargain to invest in agreeing to deal which is yes, expensive but compared to what we would pay later, its much cheaper. But theres also something morally comprehensible about making a justified financial argument foror this because we e talking about hundreds of millions of livesll here. That would be lost if we do not embrace the speed of change that is is required in the depths that is required. Its expensive but is also a moral imperative and doing nothing is even more expensive. A call from louisville kentucky yours next. With naomi klein. Good afternoon is fine. My question is about nuclear energy. I think a serious person who looks at replacing fossil fuel the majority of them, realizes that the only possible way to do it would be to go with generation three or four, Nuclear Power plants which never killed a person on earth, just wondering what you thought of that. Are they are these generations nuclear plants. The developmental,. Theyre not out there is the point. Its a notional technology is anyone. Killed you know talking about nexgen nuclear often these discussions and notional future forum of nuclear is held up as what is going to be filched but was actually is being proposed is the same old nuclear have virus. Im going to refer people once again to and more sanford his research which is very clear about the fact that we can continue do this with renewablen energy. There are monday benefits of doing it of this renewables over nuclear including the fact that it is a lot more expensive and it is prone to capitalism and corruption. We see this again and again. And what i think is great about Renewable Energy is that it is and lends itself to much more decentralized arm of ownership. Er rather than to have a few monopolist players in the Energy Section like it iss today. We actually have a amazing opportunity to have a much more democratically controlled energy grid which is filter on the fact that we are using the air and the sun and its everywhere. So we can have microgrids and Community Control Renewable Energy and energy cooperatives, the revenues from this and the communities to pay for other services, and we can kill two birds with one stone if you will when we have a fair economy and more resources as well as getting ourselves together. Thank you for your question. I think this is your smallest book. Who are the disastrous ones. His the book that i wrote right after the logo, i wrote seven years after no logo because it took a long time to research is the shock factor. In napa, make an argument that we have seen in the aftermath of economicco shock and large natul disasters. A certain political change, the shock document, using the sense of panic in the public that necessarily fall is the war or completely destabilizes the academic prices are arcane to push through policies that you wouldnt be able to push through on normal circumstances because people are focused on their daily emergencies. Were also staying this whole infrastructure of people moving in to want to make quick cash in the aftermath of disasters. And so, the battle for paradise is kind of a case study what i call the shock doctrine in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria which is before you made landfall. We were already hearing talk of how this was a great opportunity to privatize those energy grids, and is also, the island was already aside of an economic crisis. Sorts ofimpose all prosperity and deregulation. Gordy puerto rico had already become a stacked haven and this was a way that this was when youre in the debt crisis before Hurricane Maria hit to attract socalled High Net Worth individuals. Calipari rico, you have spent a whole year here, change your mailing address. Crypto currency sector because he didnt have to pay all kinds of taxes, they would have to pay the mainland. So the capitalist, developed for paradise, a lot of them are these big coin operators who relocated to pareto take tadvantage of real estate in te e fact that they are crypto currency gaining would not be taxed and they converted them to regular currency if they did so. Explain what a communal republic is. Solicited a question ive been asking myself since i wrote shock document. This is the Clear Strategy that we seen again and again by wealthy players in the aftermath of disasters. I began the shock doctrine with hurricane katrina. When i first started writing about Climate Change, the decade and a off ago, when i was in new orleans. It is still partially underwater but there were already real estate speculators talkingf abt what an opportunity it was to get rid of Public Housing projects and build condominiums. A lot of that happened in the aftermath. It was used by educational on producer who wanted to change Public Schools into Charter Schools and 37 more privatize charter heavy School System in the United States. This writer made a lot of local activists in new orleans, what is the alternative to disaster capitalism. Is how can communities democratically and respond to crises that in some cases, needs for deep solution to put forward their vision for how theirny communities should be rebuilt from these disasters that will improve lives and make us less disaster prone. Thats what, i mean. Collective response to disasters. Ive seen that in for rita puertoto rico where that little book, is about paradise that all the royalties and advance goes to a coalition of group reporters, who came together and aftermath of Hurricane Maria in order to put in to what we call a peoples platform for how puerto rico should actually be rebuilt and should actually respond to his vulnerability to climate destruction. That included no longer being dependentma on overwhelmingly on imported food from florida. Its very trivial island. They wanted practice traditional agriculture and greenmp technoly so that if there is a storm the docks at the courts, people are starting. That also requires a land redistribution in puerto rico because so much of the land is in this very moment, is being pulled off to towards developers and private interests. They also want like what we talked about, decentralized Renewable Energies owned by communities. So there is various proposals for that. Thats the kind of thing, i mean, in a large scale, what it would mean is Green New Deal. Which is the way of responding to our collective Climate Crisis in a way that also battle systemic qualities on every front. This goes tod edward near nw jersey. Your neck since hes been tv. Seems to pre much cover what i was going to talk about. I just want to save up for an advocate for the future. I see that this disconnect i abt harnessing the social energydv that goes into invading iraq on one grading little teeny picture. And being scared of all of the things that i guessedin it, woud put through this corporate noise about we should be afraid of when its a one and 53000 chance that you can be killed by a terrorist. Or, yet we cant be scared of the loss of biodiversity avert any of the other things that you know covering. Thank you for yourr words. Is the great way of putting it. It seems possible to harness huge amounts of Public Wealth if we were to wage a war is that color pension based on pretty dubious evidence that was later disproven. Yet we are demanding like a report with sources from 6000 peerreviewed articles, seen as not good enough for us. Were still waiting for the evidence command. I think it has to do with who the Climate Crisis threatens. The fact that this is, if we were to take the science seriously, both of its loss of biodiversity or climate destruction and they are certainly interrelated, it would mean that a lot of very wealthy people and interests in the Global Economy would have to make some very serious sacrifices which is why they want to change the subject to it all being about both of or not you are going to be able to eat hamburgers or not. This is really been the fact that exxon mobil is threatened shell oil is threatened. Even the most powerful businesses on the Global Economy, who have a Business Model that is reliant on the continued extraction and exploitation of fossil fuels. There are other ways of organizing a business the notice profitable. Its not as profitable to have a solar business than it is half an island gas business. So we have had this deliberate spread of misinformation. On the airways and in france. Fossil fuel Companies Funding the Disinformation Campaign that i would arguably hurt evidence of on this show and it has slowed us down. We have lost wonders will never get back because of it now we are in a moment where regular people are declaring emergency from below. That is what i think we are seeing with this climate strike like granite started with her acted Swedish Parliament just look at more than aon year ago. At best. , she was 15 years old, she had learned about Climate Change in schools should wash a lot of nature documentaries and learn about biodiversity law and all of these crises. In the trap and by her own telling, but that the world didnt make sense. She said if this were true, wouldnt everybody be talking about all of the time. And there really be destabilizing or one only home, wouldnt one of politicians be focused on the sale of the time. When this be the front page of the newspaper every day and yet everywhere she looked, people were talking about revenge anything else. I think that is still true even though we have a little bit of an improvement in the climate coverage, she decided to declare her own emergency. As a student, the one think that she had power over from the one way she was able to disrupt business as usual, was to not do the one thing that advocate was expected toat do. She stopped going to school on and she said if school strikes for climate. More people came and people in different cities including new york city starting having their own climate strike. Within a very short period, she started in august of last year by september of this year, so a little bit more than a year. There were 7 Million People participating in climate strike. This is people staying were not going to wait for politicians to recognize this is an emergency. We are going to declare the emergency and put pressure on the politicians to follow. Subnational governments have declared state of climate emergency. Both of they are following that up with the kind of policies that that would people would see it. Its completely redrawn they mp in the democratic primaries the scale of change that is being debated. Within the Democratic Party right now, is nothing like what we are talking about just a few years ago when it was really a debate about concentratehe verss a carbon stacked. Now we are talking about the spending and how monday trillions of dollars on their Green New Deal plan. How monday jobs will be created and how quickly we can move and those targets are more ambitious. This its not because these politicians is the live beets because theres a social movement that is putting pressure on those politicians to up the game. Very animated in a viral momentt in september. How do you approach wrote writing a book and what is the naomi klein style. There were seven years between my first three books. Shock doctrine in this changes everything each of those books is sort of think of as a phd thesis in its own right. I sort of was lucky enough of my first book, with no logo, and the fact that it sold the way it really privileged position as an author where i was able to get an advance. I was large enough to really block off several years to do wrist research and together a teamoc. And to build barriers around Everything Else in my live because speaking requests and things like that. To write the shock documents, i holed up in the woods where my family lived and noted that place to hole up at columbia his very beautiful place. It is quite isolated. That went out takingg a ferry, driving for another hour and it really is a quite isolated. The makes it easy to say no to things. When people ask you to come out and do things. So usually spend about three years on the research and two years of the writing when im writing a book is all that i do. Before for other apps i turn off the internet. Ande i use those because i can get easily distracted. But before there were apps like that, my husband put Parental Controls on my computer so every time i would try to go on line, before the one hour that i was allowed to go on, i would be confronted with a teddy bear while his writing this doctrine. Thats how ias write books. Unix books what. This process that i am describing, it does require to write a book with 70 pages. It does require removing oneself for a few years and this is the momentnt where i feel like i can remember myself from the political debate and i think these are such hateful years particularly leading up to the elections that im not going to be locking myself away and adjust in a book that i hope is contributing to the debate right now but why we need transformational Climate Actions why we need to marry the struggle to lower emissions in science that we need to build a fair economy and making the argument as to why that doesnt slow us down but actually speeds us up because people are hurting so much economically that if we dont bring together these two imperatives, and people are going to resist as they did in france. The yellow maxth movement. Im really focused on 2020. I think itsve going to be a little while before i feel like i can just hide myself away in the forest of dc as much as im drawn to it. Right into that a moment to. Lets give john in new york. You are on with naomi klein. Go ahead please. Thank you very much naomi for your work. Its only going to get tougher his net. I mostly calling because answers are in nature. Even like the solar staff of the other gentleman mention its not going to be enough but its a blast. Based on the more sidewall that said 99 percent. Not 40 percent like we have now. Really a wastee of the time and materials. 99 percent is worth it. So things are going to pick up. The main thing i want to mention is the book call ended in nature and is just startling insights of Victor Stoltenberg written by Alec Bartholomew he developed the implosion motor that was captured by the nazis and the people that he worked with this crash and everything but its based on the street. We straighten out a stream you kill it. When the stream goes around the corner, theres a forest it sees on the inside and the outside of the curve in the poorest is about 60 avoids that one side of the stream is the negative in the other sides of positive. In the electronics, electromagnetics, and that water that keeps. In the traditions and everything in the microsoft that would not be normally and not just the movement of the water is in fact the water is actually alive with energy i think theres a lot of answers in nature we have to step back from that and realize i am 73 yearold combat that, i was in him. Im a hundred percent. It only took me 25 years to get ptsd. Wishes much a negative response to reflex. Thank you for your question, it. I also want to welcome our listeners and cspan2 radio. Naomi klein. Things are really important observation i think we are seeing monday Solutions Coming fromco paying attention to the Natural World mimicry of nature. Which is the paradigm shift from the kind of dominant staying our rule as being to dominate the Natural World. Dependent to our will that sort of brute force engineering behind the damming of great rivers, and really the cost of fuel economy that god variede live burnet, and then up into the atmosphere not worry about what happens and then tell that we had conquered nature. That was all promise of the fossil fuel edge. You know no longer restaurant by mother nature. You know the boss. If you read the marketing materials, the first commercial steamth engine. It was all about, you know the boss, you dont have to wait for the winds to blow and to set a ship. You sell them whenever you want. You dont have to build your factories next to rushing rivers because factories use these things powered by waterwheels you can build them wherever you want. The idea was that you had your portable climate and you could control the temperature. What Climate Change tells us his baby were not the boss after all. Because all of the carbon that we emitted over the hundreds of years, of the industrial edge has been accumulating and add bits here and now comes of the response takes the forum of storms like Hurricane Dorian the part of the bahamas for think 48 hours. Absolutely unprecedented start to behave that way. And both of it is a storm or fire or heat waves, and were up against forces that are far more powerful than us. I think the message of this is everything in nature, every action has a reaction fossil fuels allowed us to tell ourselves a fairytale about the idea that we now were at the driver seat, at the wheel dominating and there would be no downside to this. So i think the beauty of Renewable Energy is that it does put us back in dialogue with the Natural World. Andne it is the harnessing of te power of nature not just sort of bending it breaking it. Tonight we going indepth every month and our guest this month is naomi klein and you can join us on twitter at the tv or alo facebook apple tv. I might twitter. In the maan klein. I dont really do any other social media. I say sometimes that instagram, and at ucl the growth algorithm of envy. [laughter] danny have you noticed that theres an activist group over the uk that was preemptively rated, they apparently had a warehouse with signs and what have you. And the authorities to prevent them from doing a protest rated them over the weekend. Im a republican, im a conservative and this bothers me because this is like going into a church and taking my antiabortion signs. This chilling, i know its happening over in england, there staying that theyre resting them for conspiracy to commit a public nuisance. Do you have any comment on that. To act you know referring to and thank you for that. I appreciate your nonpartisan solidarity there. The group is called Extinction Rebellion they are fairly young group. They have been around that long but they have the engage in nonviolence toin try to express the fact that we are in a climate emergency. They are demanding the government demanding the government to declare a climate emergency. They have shut down bridges and roads. But they are completely nonviolent group. Instead she wants to convince the left that it does not need the mainstream. That was 11 years ago. It doesnt need the mainstream. I dont knowt if i would agree with it then. H she also wrote that my goal is to move the center. I think that is more accurate. It depends on how you define thein mainstream. If you decide it. And the selfdescribed very serious opinion maker. I certainly had been telling that we should ignore them. They will be guided by what is right and needed. And that we need to move where the center is. If we look at whats happening in the democratic primary. In the range of policies under discussion. It wouldve been unthinkable just ten years ago. There is a transformation. I would never tell people that they should not worry about the mainstream because that is where most peopleeyt are. But i think ive been very consistent about ignoring the pontotoc receipt. Your brother was the good activist child. My brother was kind of like a young claimant striker. He was focused on nuclear war. He started a Student Group when he was in high school and he was part of this generation that would wake up in the middle of the night terrified of nuclear war and it still terrifying. For me and my Family Dynamics they deftly have the good activist thing covered. I was just interested in my friends and having fun. It wasnt that i didnt care about fairnesss and care about organized policy. I wasnt a joiner. I didnt join groups and things like this. Lets leave iti there. Did she hear him argue that the crisis of the Great Depression was caused by government interference. What are her thoughts about those arguments a new look at the rise of big business in america. Thank you very much. I hope i dont offend anybody. I cant respond directly. Im nott familiar with his work specifically. We created the great crash of 1929 was not the d regulation of markets as everyone else believed but there was a smallish group to make the argument that the problem was deregulation. Im not convinced by that. Under fdr was a big part of stabilizing the financial sector. You begin with one word on the election of donald trump. Shocked. I know its not enough. You ask me asked me how i write books. You know its not enough. Was not following the pattern of taking years to write a book. I wrote it in a bit of a fever over i think seven monthsev after trumps election. And i wrote it because i was really terrified having researched the ways in which shocks create the endless state of exception and distraction where it becomes possible to get away with all kinds of things precisely because everybody is trying to get their footing. And when trump when the word shock was used really again and again after the election. Because it shocked so many of us. It defied all of the polls. It defied 70 expectations. Some expectations. It came as such a huge cas shoc. I was really worried at this idea of trump as this bolt out of the blue. If we accepted that narrative of him as an interruption of everything that was understood about america and i want to stress this was not everybodys reaction. There were a lot particularly of africanamericans in the country women who said actually im not surprisede my lived experience in this country would tell me and indicate to me that there is a pretty big appetite for this sort of message that he is peddling and were surprised when i was trying to do with those lines in the book these are some of the messages that we get explicitly orid implicitly from the president. And they make the argument that these are pretty widespread ideasas he is a logical conclusion of a lot of trends its not to say that he isnt something new a new integration but that we had been worshiping at the altar of wealth. We had been venerating just because they are billionaires. It made the argument in that book. The infrastructure the Gates Foundation we can fix this without government the Gates Foundation to pivot the knowledge in the computer sphere. Its just because youre really good at one thing it doesnt mean that you are really good at everything that we live in a culture that seemed to assume that just because you were a billionaire you are treated as if you know everything. An argument that i make in this book. That created a context where someone like donald trump could stand before the American People i have no experience whatsoever but im and the fact of my wrist nests i play a very successful businessman on the tv show that you all watch. Thats why you should vote for me. What i try to do in that book is really explore the various roads that lead to trump. When were in a state of shock. We are pretty distractible. Were not very focused. A shock is a gap between an event in the narrative. If you have a story dont have a story that explains the event. Youre in that state of dislocation andoc shock. I was trying to do my part in helping get americans out of shock so that we could protect ourselves a lot of what is happening behind the scenes behind the shock. Theres actually a pretty clear pattern on the x economic sphere. No president has deregulated as much of the American Economy Environmental Standards as donald trump. No one has given more to millionaires and tax cuts than donald trump. Ai in the book i call it an corporate queue and this is i think the story we often miss when we are so focused on what the new shocking thing is that hes done. I think he knows that. I think thats why he tweets so much. Its just a constant look over their strategy. You make the point that the brand is not even in the top ten in the luxury brands. D and you begin by talking about beelection night. Both of the nominees here in new york city youre half a world away. Your reaction when you heard the news where were you and what was your reaction. I was in australia. I had been awarded the sydney peace prize. I made a documentary with the Great Barrier reef. Pe have just experienced a massive die off combining the speaking that i was doing with new research. And some political organizing i was in a meeting in australia with a group of organizations who are interested in putting together a coalition to push for a Green New Deal. Trade unions there. G and indigenous. How do we get the forwardlooking agenda. Together. Here in new york. The Election Results were coming in in the evening. It was midmorning and australia. This meeting which was all about imperative to embrace Climate Action just kind of faded away as everybody ofrealized that we were on completely new territory. Hi. Thank you for taking my questions. I think it was published in 2003. It was written by lester brown. He was talking about wartime mobilization and Climate Change i wonder if youve read that or are familiar with his work. I am familiar with his work. And the literature as it draws on to world war ii. It was not on people drove very little compared to the way they were driving before. I think they took Public Transit. An increase by 80 . Theas floating around climate movement. The reason why i think the precedent of the new deal is a d ttle bitit more useful than the world war ii precedent is simply because this was top down. And i think i wouldnt want federal government to have that much power. I argued this on fire. We actually need to look at the whole era to look at precedence for this kind of rapid change. And the transition and the marshall plan. As examples of times when they understood the threat. They understood why there was the Great Depression in the dustbowl. With the u. S. Wasnt worried about ways that a lot of countries were falling under control of the soviet union. They wanted to rebuild western that would waye e ri make it has to be a more mixed economy and that has a much stronger social protection or people will go full blown socialist. Oc was there a book or author that influenced or changed or your thinking at any subject. So many books. I dont know where to begin. Certainly when i was writing this changes everything all some indigenous thinkers. I dedicate this book on fire to a man named arthur emanuel. He was a former chief in mentor of mine. F his a published book that i think is incredibly important from the reconciliation manifesto. Its about the neutrality of land rights. Many friends including fighting Climate Change thatno indigenous land rates in knowledge. Its very important if were going to rise to the challenge. Tl the book that have the biggest impact on me recently is a novel the over story which i have told everybody they have to read. Because it is magnificent. I read a lot of fiction that helps me think about the work that i am doing. And the flight behavior is one of the best books about Climate Change. She is kind of getting at what it means to live in house a house thats falling apart. And the collective house of the planet itself. Ti the over story its justan magnificent. And the science of forest in understanding how trees communicate with each other. And really live in community it is also one of the most beautiful descriptions of activism that ive ever read. I dont think activists get a fair shake in our society. People that really do put the collective good ahead of their own freedom he writes about people who feel so passionately about they engage in direct action. And move into trees and he writes about them not uncritically but a lot of c respect and compassion. Is he a tough editor. Does he prove your work . He has always edited me. I think when i was earlier on he would edit me more i edit him as well. We have collaborated. He made a film to go with the book. The projects were in parallel. Usually you write a book and then you make a film about it. If you can make a film about it which i did with the shock doctrine. Theres something a little bit funny about that because you are reef tracing your footsteps. I really didnt like the idea of making films after i have already written a book. And we have it it was top around the shock doctrine. We decided to do Something Different and i was writing the book and he was making the film. Here he recently passed away. The biggest challenge writing a book with the husband. It was hard enough to make the film and book together not sure. Im not sure i could co work anyone. Mike, you are next. I would like to know your thoughts where are all of the people going to work in the future it seems as though the last few decades were doing away with middleclass jobs. It is the root of all evil. I think we have its not exactly a lack of jobs as a lack of jobs that pay salaries that can support families and provide benefits and, a sense of security. There is pretty low Unemployment Rate now. A lot of people had have multiple jobs. There is a contradiction people who support the president it doesnt explain why theres so much economic stress. People are falling into poverty. Y. Clearly not everything is going well. It is clear that when we invest in Renewable Energy. We create many times more jobs than when we invest in fossil fuels. I think too oftenha we havent made sure that these newer jobs pay the same kind of salaries that people have well dash mike working at an auto plant. These are good jobs, although they are getting worse while we have a strike right now. We need to make sure and this is in the original Green New Deal resolution. They say that workers who are moving from high carbon jobs that they need to maintain the salary level. It would keep that. Because its womens work its devalued in the economy. If there are any women out there and encourage them to call. Hello. Listen. Hoank you for your clarity of thought and communication on the crisis of our lifetime. And also, ive heard you speak on youtube about what is sacred. T the demarcation in the new age as we become more scientifically based. And got away from older most religious ways of thinking. Can we separate the supernatural from the sacred and come up with a new vision of organists in the future. And the clean new deal. And particularly for our kids and grandkids. Thank you very much for your time. What a great big question the dawn of the scientific resolution in the Industrial Age there was a shift in worldview away from seeing the Natural World as sacredd i appreciate the caller using the word sacred because i dont think it is just about religion or organized religion once again it is a relatively new phenomenonnd to not see the Natural World as sacred. As a little bit scary. Pretty much every other cosmology sought the Natural World that way. You are a little bit more careful. You dont want to make too big of a mess. The draining away of the sacred and this is part of the reason why i loved the over story. It is a re enchanting of the Natural World a lot of people i believe a lot of people are drawn through craving. The crisis that we are in. He has to do with imagining the world is a machine and ourselves as an engineer that made us believe we could take it. I do believe that its just not. It is not just an ecological crisis or an economic crisis. Seen the Natural World as ach machine for us to dominate. It is how we ended up where we are. And its can be a return to older stories combined with newer ones that as can be part of getting us out of that. It is a collection of essays that i wrote after it came out. I was very much on the front line of the debate about globalization. Its about the clash that clash that we head between an Economic System that requires expansion. A Natural World that requires that we can track. Thank you. And thank tom for his question. And for their reply. My phone received two alerts. For flash floods in my area. And i think greta is a prophetic voice. Some religions it is denominations are listening i am unsure about i dont really know what their opinion is now. But some of us believe the scriptures of nature and accurately interpret them. That is exactly the essence. I agree we need faith leaders in this conversation. Its not just about politics. We need to speak to the whole selves. I have a chapter on fire that describes a very unlikely visit i took as a secular jewish feminist. I would encourage everyone to read. It is an amazing text. What draws on the teaching i attended a conference where it was a really profound debate that was happening in the Catholic Church about us examining the idea that the earth is human dominion. It is just here for us. Nature has a value in and of itself. That was pretty radical. It was seen as pretty radical to parts of the Catholic Church. We need that kind of leadership. Your first book came out 20 years ago. I think history will judge president President Trump in this moment in history. This moment in history i think it will depend on what we do. I think were at a sound moral crossroad in what i am worried about in this moment is not just the weather the part of the continent that is where my atmily is. Im worried about all of that but what scares me the most is the intersection of heavy weather with the rising climate of hate. I dont think they are unrelated. I think we are seeing figures like trump emerge. And then the finding these others within the National Order and also the socalled invading armies of others. We are seen a fortress in a borders. Thousands of people have been left to drown in the mediterranean. I dont think it is a coincidence that these two fires are happening at the same time. They have unmask the hatred. I think people understand that we are in an era of psychological disruption there are a couple of ways that we can respond to that. My fear is that this will be the moment where we decided that we were just only going to protect ourselves our own and that we are entering an era where people are going to be okay with seeing an unspeakable number of people die. Or,ng we go on another road and that is based on the idea that everything in life has equal value everyone has the right to seek safety. We owe each other a lot my rate of being human. But we are in a web of interconnection. I hope that this is the moment we chose not to hoard but to share in to figure out how to live together to live almost slated to come up with more generosity and humanity. I believe it is possible. I know it is hard. But the alternative is not just claimant disruption. If the president is reluctant. All i know im thinking about that not happening. We dont have another four years to spend cracking open new pieces of wilderness to drilling and building the fortresses in unleashing more hatred against the most vulnerable. I think getting rid of trump is an absolute mirror moral imperative. We need a trusted messenger from the democratic primaries. Not being mired in the swamps of washington. And really seen as someone who is can have a different set of moral values i will leave it to your viewers and listeners to think about who best meets the criteria but i think its important that they really beat such a sharp alternative and not a lot of baggage going into this race. As a big change that is ahead of us. There are very powerful forces never gonna try to stop anybody who tries to do the right thing. T make sure youre choosing a candidate that has a stiff spine and a strong appetite. We will go out to san francisco. You are next with naomi klein. Its really a pleasure to speak wit you. I wanted to turn the conversation to my favorite subject lately its russia. And the 2016 election. In the following inclusion with russia i specifically wonder where you stand on the collusion delusion part but let me just say the revolution that happened in 2014. I see as a classical regime change operation that was run out of the state department, and then on top of it you have the overheard conversation where she lays out the whole leadershiplare of who is in and who is out. Thats crucial because as we talk about ukraine in the role thats now been talked about you have to go back and realize that that was a coup detat. Supported the proto fascist elements in the ukraine that are still active in strong. E now jump forward to the 2016 election and you have Paul Manafort. They are basically doing maneuvers to get Paul Manafort indicted. He was indicted the indictment was pulled after trump became president. Now we fast forward to hear where we have the two years of mueller. Looking over every stone they could improve that. It was a bunk accusation from the end. Thank you for the question into the comment. Im not sure that i agree that there is absolutely nothing there. Obviously they didnt make the case. I would encourage anybody that has trouble with mister trump. To go find a reasonable trump supporter and tell them the story the ukraine story and the biden story and why he should be impeached and tell me how you feel about biden. I dont think you can tell the story in a way in which they both dont look bad. Thats not saying that he has done anything illegal. Ly i do think as is the one ones that they had chosen. It is a huge problem for biden. Ob even if its not illegal there is no evidence of wrongdoing. There is no evidence of illegality. I think we are in a Climate Crisis. It was all about natural gas. Its all about increasing natural gas production. The sitting Vice President son would be on the board of Energy Company getting 50,000 a year. It is the kind of its not good for politics or the planet. And i think we need a much clearer break with this kind after the 2016 election. The New York Times asked me to write an opt ed responding to thee claim that hillarys loss meant that no woman could be president. There are a lot of women who took it very personally what i make it and until my daughters. Umwrote an opt ed making the argument that i do not think thats what we should take from the 2016 election because i feel like Hillary Clinton was to compromise a candidate to run asf front hard as she needed to run against trump. One of the ways in which trump was below vulnerable is that he have multiple women lectsing him of sexual misconduct. F she was to compromise because of bill clinton and that was one of the reasons among many others that she lost the election. The point is that her hands were tied behind her back because of her own compromises i would say one of the things that trump is most vulnerable on is his own selfdealing and the nepotism in his own family which may not be illegal but certainly flies in the face of him claiming that he stands up for working america. Its one of the areas that his most vulnerable with. Ask yourself is joe biden a trusted messenger. Or are his hands tied behind his back in the way we need a candidate whose hands are not tied behind their back. I would just like to say that. Your next please. I would like to get back to what we were discussing about the new deal because i did not think that they were aware that the Economic Stabilization board he was a congressman. That helped past the 16th amendment. I think a lot of what they want to accomplish could be done using article five. After they quit being a treasure. After he left the congress and then became treasurer for fdr. The crash happened before fdr became president. Ec and Economic Stabilization board was in response after they got that stabilized theyt went on to be on the supreme court. They have a long history with russia because they are our largest neighbors. He would have two states bigger than texas. With the constitutional amendment. Nancy, thank you for the call from kentucky. So naomi had mentioned about the power of corporations i just want to make her and people aware that there are people ready to amend the constitution. That corporation are not people with rights. It should be in the Public Interest the corporation is formed by an active government and corporate charter. And since we have a government of the people supposedlyme the corporations should serve the people rather than the other way around. There is an Organization Call move. Their privileges that can be. Its a great initiative. I think it is a big piece of the puzzleut in terms of having all of the believers that are needed the same status of people is a big barrier. Good afternoon. Rn i think you so much you have very mind expanding programs and guests on every single day. This client, i share your last name so its fun. Team a former poet of my town and i wanted to know. Have a twopart question. I wanted to know if you will ever write poetry did poetry contribute anything to your writing in the past because many of them say they started with poetry the other part is because of your canadian upbringing. Cahave relative relative from canada myself. I wonder if havinged your son the age of school. Do you have a value of Canadian School education over the American Education Public Private or charter. Cement before you hang up stand in line for a minute. I have to admit i did write some bad poetry before i started writing pros. It was definitely my first sort of writing i head in many years. It kind of fit my teenage years pretty well. I appreciate it one of the things i talk about about what a great new deal should mean. And including funding for poets and so on. This is actually the good low carbon work that we need to invest in. So i am living in the United States right now. We actually just moved a little more than a year ago. We had experienced both the canadian public School System. I think it is tricky because its my perception because its all based on property taxes here. So much of it is based on property taxes. Just the massive discrepancies between the kind of public School Education you gette and separated by just a few miles. We do have differences that follows racial faultlines. And certainly theyre able to raise more money and so on. There are definitely things about the u. S. Public system. I feel very disloyal saying that. My son has special needs and needs special support. Yet the americans with disability act. It has given students and parents stronger tools to require that schools soup provide those supports. People have their views about canada i would be happy to talk about how better our Health System is. But when it comes to the u. S. Actually has us beat. And whether they had influence the writing or thinking. Er it is such an honor to join you today. I am blessed to have met you years ago i have a lot of ground to cover. I basically wanted to ask you about your concepts of silencing the concepts. How do we call on our leaders especially in new york city massachusetts in maine that want to base their Green New Deals on the genocide and the cleansing b of some of our indigenous neighbors. Based on the situation with the Alberta Canadian tar sands staff im talking more about the and you went neighborhood of the north. It has been cleansed by make it dams and how can we find a more Sustainable Way to offer them an olive leaf so that the people who are working in those fossil fuels and all those other industries canlp find another way to find an income that would help them also help their people the living sustainability. The Core Principles of what it would mean the people that under the current economy. They have the have the dirtiest industries in their backyard. They have the highest cancer rates, they are really bearing the tocsin burden on this. They need to be first in line to benefit from the transformation. Including owning and renewing their own projects. Also that no worker should be left behind in this transition. We talked earlier about the language that is there. About workers in those sectors maintaining their salary and benefit levels. But just concretely in addition to the jobs that will be created the huge number they estimate 5 million jobs in Energy Efficiency and really investing in Public Transit and rails and Renewable Energy. If other sectors with the care economy teaching. There is a lot of cleanup work that needs to be done. It is true in any region where you have intensive fossil fuel extraction. Youve a lot of rehabilitation to do. There are tens of thousands of abandoned wellheads in alberta and she mentioned. Hundreds of thousands of jobs that can be created just by getting the polluters to pay for the mess that they created. That doesnt require a lot of retraining. These are workers that would be on job sites where they put in the walls. It is just the problem we are not getting fossil fuel companies to finance the cleanup so there is plenty of work to be done and if we have this Climate Justice principle that the frontline communities need to be first in line then we bake in equity. As i mentioned earlier its really important that the knowledge and land rights be respected. W we know we need huge reforestation. There has to be a way where we respect those land rights. As a part of the huge plan ahead. I am wondering about september 11 they stopped the airplanes from flying and the sun heated up a little bit. Just a comment about that unless light. Thank you. Im not sure i really understood the question. Climate change has gone from being a future threat. Its something that is impacting the lives of prettyy much everybody now. Its sort of noticing the sudden changes around the weather. Why is it so hot. But for Many Americans there is an entire city that has been flooded. They have lost massive infrastructure. Or on the west coastst they are blanketed in wild fire summer after summer i was recently in paradise california which was raised to the ground by this historic campfire. It is not an abstract issue. Ou its not a far off emergency. Were seeing seen that reflected in the polls. Americans are now ranking and concerns about Climate Change at the very beginning of that. They influence your thinking. Our how you view all of this. I think young people a generally the young people i talk too. I meet young people everywhere i go. I partnered for this book to her with the Sunrise Movement which is a youth Climate Justicere movement that has been demanding a Green New Deal. I have a private meeting with them before i do my public event. They are worried about everything from whether it makes sense to be going to college. They are so uncertain about the future. They are so concerned about what the future might hold. I think young people are living with such a sense of insecurity about work but the broad sense of is there a future at all. We are not taking this seriously. Being in contact with them is what fuels me. In depth with naomi klein. No is not enough. The shock doctrine and on fire. Thank you for joining us on cspan to book tv. We appreciate it. And out we are live from nashville, for the southern festival of books. Dan tomorrow we will hear from others on military history. Immigration, race and identity. In florida