Guest i focus on using my skills to advance operatives with people with disabilities. Host why did you choose that type of law . Guest i was born deaf blind. Most of a rope is designed for people who can see and hear, and will ask for accommodations, for example, getting materials, all of society refuses, putting up barriers and hertz hearts is ga job and thats not fair. I experienced a lot of those barriers and i realized the law is one way we can create change. I wanted to create change and remove barriers for people with disabilities. My own personal story is discrimination and struggle inspired me to become an attorney. Host and here is her book, haben the deafblind woman who conquered harvard law. First deaf blind person to graduate from harvard, is that correct, from Harvard Law School . Guest thats host what was that experience like . Guest we had a lot of unknowns. I couldnt reach out to another deafblind harvard law graduate and ask them, how did you do this . How did you do oral arguments . How did you take your exams . I had to figure a lot of it out, and it actually started way back in Elementary School when i had to learn to advocate for my needs and to navigate the school system. One of my early chapters in my book is an experience where a a teacher told me i was failing a class, and this was in middle school. And i was extremely surprised because i did all my assignments. How could i be failing a class when im doing all the assignments . And we investigated what was going on. The teacher talk to the mainstream teacher. This was a middle school in oakland, california, a mainstream public school. So i was attending classes with nondisabled students. It was a nonspecialist school. And after the teacher for the blind talk to the mainstream teacher, they realize the teacher was writing assignments on the board and i wasnt seeing them. So i was missing homework because i didnt see that it was assigned. And sometimes instructors would read the assignment from the back of the room, and i wouldnt hear him. I i did no homework was being assigned. So i realized if i just tried to be a student, ill never be successful. I had to both the student and my own teacher advocate. Thats when things change. I started advocating for my rights. I started checking in, what are the strategies to get up close to the assignments if you cant see or hear the assignments . I would go to the teacher after every class and ask, what did i mess . What assignments are there . And and i continued doing that o high school. My grades went up. I started getting straight as when i i took responsibility fr my education. And the school actually was more accessible than most schools. Most schools throughout the United States dont even provide blind students braille. So once i heard the assignment, they would miss out on the opportunity to do the reading and stand top of classes. And those types of barriers force students to fall behind, which then affects the ability to get good grades and get a job later. So even though i had barriers in my school, i was getting more opportunities than most students, which allowed me, once i had advocacy skills, start doing well in school which then helped me go on to college and go on to law school. And when i faced all those unknowns at Harvard Law School, i had advocacy skills to fall on, that i access to reading materials, and could participate in all aspects of the program. Host at what point in your life were you aware that you saw in her things differently than the majority of people . Guest thats a good question it. I was born deafblind. Deaf blindness is a spectrum. So even though i had limited vision and hearing when i was younger, i had more than i do now, and it slowly deteriorated over time. It probably will continue to deteriorate over time, and i just adapt and come up with solutions so that i can access what i need. When did i noticed that im deafblind . I dont have an exact date, but when i was in middle school i remember i was surprised that i was missing information. I didnt realize that the teacher was riding on the board and i was missing step, or that he was saying things on the back of the room and i was missing information. I kind of assume that the way that i experienced the world was almost kids and adults experience the world. So when i had that meeting with one of my teachers, the teacher for the blind, and the mainstream teacher, thats when i started to realize how i experienced the world is different than others. And other students could just go to school and expect the teachers to teach them. I couldnt do that. I had to think about what might i be missing, what are the potential unknowns here, how can i find those unknowns. And all my life has been this process of trying to identify unknowns and figured them out and come up with solutions. A lot of detective work. Host from your book, ms. Girma, you write, the Blind Community has poor stories of blind kids who never contribute around the house because their parents tell them they cant. My parents expect me to do chores, and i do. Guest thats true. The truth is, as a kid i didnt want to do chores. What kid wants to do chores . Likely, my parents expected me to do chores. Luckily. So i learned to do chores. I learn nonvisual techniques for everything from vacuuming to doing dishes. Other parents are like, oh, you cant do that if youre blind. You tell a kid with the disability to sit in a corner and not participate. That grows up he into an adult and never develops independent skills. That is extremely limiting. So its important for parents to encourage their kids to participate around the house. If youre not sure how they will do it, research, try. There are a lot of disability organizations that can help you come up with solutions or how to do activities with your child in an accessible format. My parents had high expectations, but they were also very afraid and protected. There was one time when i wanted to go and travel to molly west africa and help build a school, and my parents told me no, thats not safe. I told them, you guys are from africa. My dad grew up in ethiopia here my mom grew up in eritrea. How can you tell me africa is not safe . But they were responding based on being parents and wanting to protect their child and being afraid of the unknown. Then they brought up by disability, how can you build a school if you cant see . And i told them the other American Students also dont know how to build a school. Well learn together, well figure it out. And they still said no. I was frustrated but i wouldnt give up. I told them that i could do this activity, and they wouldnt believe me. Often its the person with the disability understands their abilities best, not people outside that experience, but the person with the disability. And they were avoiding me so i brought in an ally to help advocate. I went to the Program Manager for the program that takes kids to developing countries to help build schools. This organization is called build on. And with the build on Program Manager and i and my parents sat down for lunch, and then expressed their fears to the Program Manager and she was able to address their fears. They asked her, how can she built a school if she cant see . And the Program Manager answered honestly, i dont know, but shell find a way, shell figure it out. Its okay if you dont have an answer, as long as you try, as long as you go out there, pick up the shovel, start digging. You will find strategies. You will find alternative techniques. And when it went to build the school, we did find alternative techniques. I knew how to handle a shovel, how to dig, move bricks, and learned all those activities. Even elting the latrines. After that when i came back to the United States, my parents felt slightly more confident about my abilities. They still had fears. All parents have fears and have the desire to keep their child safe at home, and we continued to have that struggle. Even now there still a little bit of that struggle of them wanting to keep me safe and me wanting to explore the world. Host haben girma, were sitting here in a in a bright t with lots of lights on. What and what do you hear or see right now . What are the images or the sounds . Guest its really hard to explain. I never had 2020 vision, so i dont know what you are experiencing, nor do i know if you have 2020 vision. What do you see . Host well, i think i see everything. My vision is 2020, so i can see your face and your hands typing, and i can see claire over here typing, and we will explain why she is here as well in just a minute. But is it opaque . Is that a term that works for you . Guest . Are you aware of light . Lets put it that way. Guest i can answer that question. Yes, im aware of light. I can tell when the lights are on and off. Everything is blurry. I can sometimes see the outlines of objects. If someone is really close to me i can see them. I cant see you at the moment, but if you were closer, i would see the outline of you but not details like eyes or facial expressions. So everything is very blurry. Host can you understand any of my words at this point . You write in your book about being able to hear higher tones rather than lower tones in voice. Guest i can hear a little bit of the high frequencies. If someone is near me i can usually tell when they are speaking. I cant catch any of their words. So i dont know what you are saying until claire, the caption or, types what you you are say. Shes typing on a keyboard thats wirelessly connected to my braille computer. As you speak she types what you are saying and i read it in braille. My fingers went over the dots on the braille machine, and im reading the words and then i know what you are saying. Host you also have another assistant here with you. Who is that . Guest that is my low. Milo is my seeing eye dog. Hes a small German Shepherd dog. Well, he small for a German Shepherd are probably considered a big dog, and he was trained at the scene in new jersey. Host he is your second dog . Guest he is my second dog. My first dog, who i talk about in my book, theres a chapter in my book when i talk about what it was like to go to the seeing eye and training with a dog. If you want to have a good relationship, whether with an animal or human being, you need to invest in that relationship. So i stepped away from college, stepped away from family to spend three weeks entirely focused on developing a relationship with my seeing eye dog. At first it was incredibly awkward. I was a stranger to her. Her name was maxine and she was a stranger to me. We didnt understand each other, so sometimes she would walk me into chairs, not stop at stairs. She was fully trained, but she didnt have a relationship with me. And we had to work on a relationship, and overtime we learned to understand each other. Her guiding improved dramatically. For nine years we worked together, traveling all over the country. When i graduated from college she was with me. When i was climbing icebergs and alaska, she was with me. And when i went to law school at harvard, she was there by my side to my classes, walking across the stage. Last year she passed away from cancer, and it was really, really hard to lose a partner of, not just a dog, but a partner who was by my side through so many big moments. Host haben girma, you talk about the techniques that youve used, and one of those small techniques was you lift your toes when you are walking with the dog to keep from tripping. How does that change how you walk . Guest youre a very observant reader. Thats a small detail in my book, but you pick it up. So throughout my life i came up with strategies to help me be more aware of the world. One strategy is i like wearing flats, very thin shoes, so i can feel the environment more easily when im walking. They shipped from wood to carpet, pavement, i can feel all of that to my shoes because i wear flats. I also killed my toes upwards when im walking tilt so if i did smash against something, its easier to maintain your balance if your toes are slightly pointed upwards. So i rarely fall, partly because i have the balance, partly because of the way i walk, and also because im a dancer. Dancing helps to develop really good balance. Host lets talk about lewis and Clark College and one of your first advocacy is there. Guest thats a good one. One of my favorite chapters in the book is about my time at lewis and Clark College in portland, oregon. Its a small liberal arts school who did a fantastic job giving access to my classes. I had all of the materials for my textbooks, my exams. Everything was going well in my classes. There was just one issue, the cafeteria. In the cafeteria they had maybe six different food stations. Students would walk in, browse the print menu and go to the station of choice. I couldnt read the menu. Blindness wasnt the problem. Blindness is never the problem. The problem was format of the menu. Some went to the manager and asked, can you read make the menu accessible . You could email it to me or braille the menu, or post it online. I have software called screen reader, called the screen reader, and will convert graphical information on websites or emails into accessible formats digital braille. And the manager told me, sorry, we have over a thousand students. We dont really have time to assist you with the service. For the first few months i tolerated the situation. I told myself, at least i have food. At least im getting my textbooks for my classes. At least im getting an education. Sometimes we engage in the oppression olympics. We compare ourselves and we tell ourselves, so what else has it worse, stop complaining, at least you dont have as bad as someone else. But that kind of thinking is not helpful. We will never remove barriers and advanced society if we are constantly comparing forms of oppression. I realized if i wanted the system to change, i had to do something. So i researched the americans with disabilities act. I talked to advocates. Then i told the university. I told the food service at the cafeteria that they have a legal obligation to make the menu accessible to people with disabilities. And if they dont, im going to pursue legal action. I had no idea how i would do that. I was just 19. I couldnt afford a lawyer. Now i know there are nonprofit Legal Centers that will help students with disabilities. But back then i didnt know that. All i knew is that it had to try. I had to do something. And in this case the very next day the manager apologized and promised to make the menus accessible. They did. They started sending the menus. Back then i was a vegetarian and its much easier to eat vegetarian when you know what the food choices are, when you know which one of the stations is serving a vegetarian meal. I finally could more easily eat vegetarian. Life became delicious. And the next year and you blind student came to the college. He didnt have to fight for access to the menus. He had immediate access to the menus. That taught me that when i advocate, im removing barriers for an entire community. That inspired me to become an attorney and continue advocating for people with disabilities. Host your book is written in a series of vignettes. Why did you choose that model . Guest i feel stories are really powerful to help teach people a lesson. I did want to lecture to people. No one wants to be lectured at, so instead i offered a series of engaging, humorous stories that will help the lessons stick. Each story teaches us something about legalism. Ableism is a set of beliefs that people with disabilities are inferior to the nondisabled. They are not inferior. Ableism teaches society that we are. So the stories in my book help identify ableism, and at the end of the book theres an accessibility guide. If you feel inspired, if you feel moved, to take steps to remove access to ability, if you feel inspired to take steps to remove barriers and work towards accessibility, then that guide can help. Host what is your reaction if somebody tells you youre an inspiration to them . Guest i tell them what are you inspired to do . Host thats not a word you like, is it . Guest i it really depends on how people use it, and i try to be patient because im an advocate. My role is to teach people about accessibility. So i asked people, what do you mean when you say i am inspiring . Do you know youre going to take steps to remove barriers . Are you inspired to make your website accessible . Or is the word inspiration a disguise for pity . Sometimes it is. The word is used so often for people with disabilities when they are not even doing anything productive. We want to ask people, be aware of what you are actually saying. Try to use a different word. Maybe role model, maybe motivation. So ask yourself, what are you really feeling before use a word. Host haben girma, you write in your book that only 10 of blind people can read braille, in 70 of blind people are unemployed. Guest only about 10 of the Blind Community reads braille because a lot of teachers of the blind are not teaching braille. Theres an assumption that they can just listen to books on tape, or they can just listen to information on their computers. Theres no use for braille, is the assumption. But if people dont learn braille, it blind people dont learn braille, they dont develop literacy. Its important to know how words are spelled, how sentences are formed. If you only listened to stories, you will think once upon a time is one word. So its important for more people to learn braille, and we should make sure that our schools are teaching braille to blind students. And if adults become blind later in life, we should ensure that there are services to teach braille to adults, because of braille is a really powerful tool to connect with the world, to access information, and especially when it comes to employment. Braille readers have an advantage over nonbraille readers. About 70 of the Blind Community experiences unemployment, and thats because a lot of employers assume that blind people cant do lots of different tasks. When i was in college i wanted to get a summer job just like so many other College Students who want to get a summer job. And a friend of mine told me, i know a place where there are lots of summer jobs. Alaska. And so i said, okay, lets go up to alaska. And he was right. There were lots of summer jobs in alaska. Juno has a large tourism industry, so lots of jobs by their meet the needs of taurus. I applied to tons of jobs. Employees would see my resume and get excited. I was valedictorian in high school. I had really good grades in college, lots of volunteer experiences. So employers would get excited with my resume but once they met me for the interview, they realized i had a disability and they would come up with all kinds of excuses. Actually, we just fill the position. Sorry, were looking for different fit. That was incredibly frustrating. People told me, work hard and you will be successful. I worked hard, and i still faced barriers. Working hard alone is not enough. Society needs to remove barriers. Employers need to remove barriers. Eventually, after a long search i found an employer who was inclusive. It was at a small gym and alaska, and i worked as as a ft desk clerk. My responsibility was making sure was be responsible for the cash register, making sure that equipment in the gym work, cleaning the changing rooms. One day a woman walked in and she told me one of the treadmills is not working. I followed her to one of the treadmills. I tried hitting the on button. It wouldnt work. I tried the other buttons. It wouldnt work. I felt that treadmill from top to bottom, and on the bottom it was a switch. I i flicked the switch and the machine went to life. The lady told me, oh, my goodness, i didnt see that switch. I told her, i didnt see it either. Sometimes nonvisual techniques are equal in value and surpass visual techniques. Host just to go back to that story, was your hearing better at that time that you could understand the woman speaking to you . Guest yeah. My hearing yes. I could hear more back then. I was still deaf ear deafness is a spectrum. So if someone was close to me i could understand them. Host i saw earlier when i spoke to you you couldnt hear me, but when claire spoke to you, you could hear her very clearly, or more clearly. Guest claire has a slightly higher voice then you do. You have a lower voice. So claire is a little easier to hear. I still dont hear claire very well. I catch it in pieces of what she says. Host you describe yourself in your book as ultra visible and invisible. Guest its complicated. I stand out as a black woman, deafblind, with a guide dog and a funny computer. So people see me, that at the same time i dont see me. Because they see all the stereotypes of blindness. They see the blind beggars which are the stereotypes of blind people that we most often see in the media. And all the stereotypes about deaf people. For so much of our history, the words deaf and dumb have gone together, and a lot of people assume that we are less intelligent because which is not fair. I want people, i want society to change and get rid of those assumptions. Lets move away from the Charity Model and start seeing people with disabilities as talented, with valuable contributions for society. Host haben girma, you arrived here in our building at our students by yourself with my elbow. Whats your system . If youve never been to this building milo what is your system for writing . Guest arriving . Guest we had a system called structured discovery, which means use your skills, use your navigational, organizational skills. When i was in high school and after high school i received a lot of training from organization and mobility professionals. They taught me how to navigate through spaces i had never expressed before. A lot of spaces have patterns, sidewalks, streets, buildings. So when i arrived here, milo and i moved to the lobby until we found a reception area, and one of your Staff Members help identify the seating area, and i used my keyboard and braille to help communicate with your Staff Members. Host claire, what do you do for a living . Is is a fulltime job for you . Working with haben girma,. But im a caption or so i caption tv, college classes, plays, musical come sporting event for the deaf and hard of hearing. Host how long have you been doing that . I been doing that for three years. Host this is a question for haben. Is this system, is this something you came up with, or who invented what we are doing here . Guest so this is a braille computer, and devices like this have been around since about the 80s. But for the most part they dont have bluetooth. This model came out with bluetooth, and i start asking myself, would it be possible to connect it to a keyboard . And if i connected it to a keyboard, could i better communicate with people . Braille is my strongest way to communicate. Im not fluent, and most hearing people dont know sign language. Most hearing people can type. So if i had someone most likely they can type and ill be able to read what theyre saying in braille. So i spent time looking for different keyboards, testing it with the braille computer to try to find out which ones work, which ones are most portable and resilient. Because you have to have them and all kinds of environments. Sometimes people accidentally spill things are drop things, and so i carry a keyboard and i also carry a backup one just in case. Host haben girma, you tell the story in your book about the party after your first semester at law school. Guest thats a good story. So for the most part, i have avoided loud, noisy environments and parties because before i had this keyboard and braille computer, i had no way to communicate with people in loud, noisy environments. So i i would miss out and be excluded in those settings. Then in 2010 just before i started law school, i found this system, and i started slowly using it in different environments. At the end of my first semester in law school, several of my classmates got together at a bar to celebrate the end of classes. When i arrived i was extremely nervous because i wasnt sure how it would work, how would i be able to communicate and interact at a bar. It actually worked out really well. In bars people strain their voices to be heard, to be understood, and my classmates enjoyed the opportunity to rest their voices and just type. They didnt have to shout to communicate with me. They could take a break and just type, and i was able to read. That worked out well, until someone had too much to drink. Then his words turn to gibberish and i could not understand him. I asked myself, what would i want if i were in his shoes . What would i expect from a friend . So i offered to walk him home, and we were struggling to communicate, heidi really, really admired maxine, my seeing eye dog. So through vaccine i was able to convince him, to help guide him home and follow us home. He kept trying to go off in the wrong direction and had to keep in mind him, follow maxine, she will help you get home. And eventually we made it. Host you write in your book that the world is a steaming sensory stew. Guest theres always something going on, even if your cited in here, theres something going on in the world that you are not seeing and hearing. You are constantly expensing sensory experiences that were missing out. Its really important to be able to focus and be present on what you can access because there are so many things you can experience and feel. I find that touch is a skill and ability that very few people Pay Attention to. They have Different Levels of tactile intelligence. Some people are really good at picking up environmental information through skin here if somebody walks by me, i can feel the air change as they walk by. You are lots of little signals you can pick up. So thats one of the stories in my book where i discover tactile intelligence. And i Start Building up that skill. Host who is gordon and his he still a part of your life . Guest gordon is one of my best friends, and i have a team of maybe ten people who take turns traveling with me two different events and typing. And gordon is really good at typing and describing the world, and identifying changes. So i think its really important for everyone to every to have n who can help you identify able listen or sexism or racism. Sometimes the world gets overwhelming and we feel tired and lose the ability to advocate for ourselves. But if you have a network of friends who can help cheer for you and help you advocate when you struggle to advocate for yourself, its really, really important. Host you talk about the loneliness sometimes. Guest yeah. I dont really have a community that automatically gets me. Blind people dont automatically get someone who is deafblind. The deaf community, the Ethiopian Community dont automatically understand me. So i have to work to build bridges and help explain, this is how i communicate. This is how i access information. I find middle ground we can all communicate and understand each other. That takes work. Its a process. And sometimes it gets exhausting. Host your brother was born deafblind as well, correct . Guest yes. And thats interesting. One of my brothers is also deafblind and he is a completely different experience than me. His deafness and blindness is different. His Communication Style is different. He was born and raised in eritrea. I was born and raised in the United States. So we had some similarities, but we also differences. We have had to work to find a way to communicate. Sometimes we use the braille computer and keyboard, sometimes we use sign language. Host haben girma, july 20, 2015. Guest i love that date. Host why . Guest july 20, 2015, is an amazing date because thats the date i met president obama. The white house celebrated the 25th anniversary of the americans with disabilities act, and they invited disability rights advocates to come and celebrate. They also invited me to introduce president obama and Vice President joe biden at the ceremony. And that was an incredible honor. Host what was your interaction with the president s like . Guest it was amusing. At first i wasnt sure what to expect amazing. Some people when i meet them dont want to interact with me because they are nervous or uncomfortable. People, a lot of people dont like stepping outside of their comfort zone. Typing is familiar but also so different to some people. Some people refuse and say no. President obama graciously switched from voicing to typing so i could access his words. And he typed. He was a slow typist, but i can read slowly so we were still able to communicate. Host you write in your book that you did not bring maxine to the white house. Why not . Guest sometimes when i travel with maxine or milo, the conversation shifts to the dog. I thought i would only have maybe two minutes with president obama, and i was concerned that we would not talk about disability rights and accessibility if my dog stole the show. So i chose not to bring my dog because i was concerned that the conversation would be about dogs. It probably wouldnt have. Im sure he still wouldnt talk to me about accessibility and inclusion, but that was one of my concerns. Host when you decided to write the book and go on book tour, what were your biggest concerns . Guest i think a lot of authors are concerned that readers will not get the message. And thats really a common fear among authors. Every reader interprets a story differently. I have gotten feedback from readers, and there have been all kinds of different feedbacks. Some stories really stick with readers. Other stories, readers entirely miss the message, so its been really fascinating for me to hear back from readers. I love hearing back from readers, and people can send me messages through social media, on twitter, facebook and instagram. My name is at haben girma people can send it back. What was your favorite part of the book, peter . [laughing] host i enjoyed all of the book, ill just say that. But, ms. Girma, when people go to your website or to your social media sites and the type a message to you, whats the process that it gets to your keyboard . How does that work . Guest so the social media companies, facebook, twitter, instagram have accessibility teens that help ensure that the websites and apps are accessible. Its not perfect, but someone sends me a message to twitter, software called screen reader, usually thats voiceover on my iphone, will convert the images on the screen, the graphical information on screen to speech. The only time, text is really easy to read, but images and videos are difficult. Some people include image description. A lot of people dont include image descriptions. For me to access the video, there needs to be a transcript of the video, and captions of individuals who are deaf and cited. I cant actually see captions but i still encourage people to add captions so that deaf people who can see can use those captions. Host haben girma, my favorite part of your book is the fact that you like to have your situation described to you, if youre unaware of it. Tell me about the bar. Who is in here . What is she wearing . Questions like that seem very important to you. Guest you know, people are really important to me, and i can learn a lot about a person when i asked them to describe the setting. Sometimes if i i ask them to describe the setting, the community describe the food. Of the friends will tell me about the animals they see, like the dogs are the cats that are in the room. Other friends focus on jewelry. So how someone describes the setting tells me a lot about that person. Host where our mom and dad now . Guest mom and dad are in the bay area. Host do they live close by to you . Guest relatively, yes. Yes, they live close by. Host are they still worried about you . Guest yes. [laughing] they are still concerned, and want me to be seen, which is understandable. They will always be my parents to be safe. Host lets close with this. This. You write in your book, i like my deafblind world. Comfortable, familiar. Its all i know. Its my normal. Guest yeah. I dont wish to be cited and hearing. Im comfortable and happy with what i have. I do love increasing my skills and abilities and talents. So if someone were to offer a solution that would allow me to hear, all the information about me, ill take it. If someone offered me the ability to fly, ill take it. Until then, i can be content taking airplanes. But im always happy to improve and advance my skills and abilities. Host heres the book, haben the deafblind woman who conquered harvard law and she has been our guest on booktv along with claire and milo. Thank you all for being here. Booktv continues now on cspan2, television for serious readers. [applause] all right. Welcome everybody to todays Commonwealth Club meeting. My name scott shafer, Senior Editor for politics and government at kqed. Im pleased to be a moderator. Joining us today is u. S. Senator and democratic president ial candidate Michael Bennett senator bennet as represented colorado in the u. S. Senate since 2009. 2009. Before that he served as superintendent of Public Schools in denver where he worked to improve accessibility and quality of education
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