Contributing Political Writer and author of three fiction collections and a novel as well as the people will rise like waters upon your sure a story of the 2016 elections characteristics of unflinching storytelling. In the man they wanted me to be his critical and courageous subject of toxic masculinity examining origins origins and consequences with the selfexamination with the racist patriarchal structure to reframe the narrative around what it means for the sake of our futur future. [applause] it feels really weird to be out in public and to find out about fiction its easy to hide behind all of that stuff it doesnt have much to do with politics this book is exceedingly personal for me going to the entire childhood and upbringing to reexamine my life as was mentioned to me from a small little indiana town which is 3000 people and factory workers and to be frank they have made up the base of Donald Trumps elective base. So i examined a lot of that stuff and just a little background what made this project start in the first place, go back october 7th 2016 which was my 35th birthday and also the day that donald trump access hollywood tapes dropped in which he said terrible misogynistic things on october 7th a hurricane was coming through and the access hollywood tapes dropped an hour and a half before the hurricane hit. Celebrating my birthday and i thought he will bow out by morning and when the power comes back he will be done. It didnt happen. I sat without power 72 hours trying to figure out why. In the meantime at the genesis tree fell in my yard and i didnt have a chainsaw like my neighbors so they all came around and judge me accused me of not being a man because i did not have a chainsaw perk i had to deal with the tree and Donald Trumps continued presence. So i will be little section but before i do i will give some background. I was raised in what you would call a traditional patriarchal family. The men all labored and when they came home the women would wait on them and cook them dinner do the dishes and take care of children into their gender roles. A boy was not supposed to cry or show emotions or creative or enjoy art or education and i always felt very conflicted by that. I feel like i failed like there was something wrong with me. A lot of this book is coming to terms to realize the american idea of masculinity is quite frankly a fraud and not real and the expectations men have to live up to are not realistic to harm themselves and the people around them and its bad for them and their families. I will go ahead and jump into the 2016 relies pretty quickly what was happening with donald trump was racial and societal phenomenon that had a lot of different aspects to it that led to him not just winning the election but basically being immune to the scandals that would normally bring down a politician. This is a little bit of a look at that. Donald trump succeeded because he is the personification of White American masculinity. His demeanor and constant threats boasting about money and power propensity for blatant cruelty and his opponents is something out of a schoolyard are all traits we associate with men in this country. He is the adl thumbnail with anybody of a traditional worldview he never apologizes or shows weakness and always ready to fight anyone who doesnt buy into the act sees a tragically insecure person whos bragging fails to hide for those of us surrounded by men whose arrogance is obviously overcompensation talking about money and power and prowess exposing insecurities you cannot help but see the same and donald trump. The problem is that trump is himself a traditional masculine culture when men in the patriarchy see him they see themselves. He is a buffoon but that means that they are buffoons if all this egotism is ridiculous then they must also be ridiculous. If the socalled billionaire who flies in private jets bearing his name married to a model is not the epitome of what men can achieve in america than what is this system we have bought into cracks me for whatever trump the same reason they spend their hard word on hard owned many with harleydavidsons decked out in chrome make America Great again hat means they dont care if they hurt your feelings after all they are for women they dont care that it offends you or share your worry because that is also for women. Donald trump is another product to supplement masculinity. Its important to investigate the roots of the crisis of masculinity besides the book obvious lies that are manufactured to save himself his message resonates because there is a kernel of truth. The americans he is speaking to his suffering when i go home i see town struggling to adapt to the Economic Trends and young people who face the future then deciding on a massive amount of student debt downtown is shuttered the school struggles with classes and homeowners are underwater and those are debilitated by injuries and illnesses they cannot afford to treat others have fallen victim to prescription drugs somehow turned to heroin and some have become another statistic and another infection. As a National Politician continues to be bought and sold of International Corporations this is the raw end of the deal for generations they have been manipulated by rhetoric by deflecting blame that the minorities are a threat using it for their own gain anytime of the day at fox news you will find a segment intended for this purpose they have relentlessly had it had the true agenda with a wealth gap with interventionism that harmed the voters more than any other group by pounding away at societal divisions gender or racial or zeno phobic this manipulation perpetuated in the illogical relationship between working and middleclass americans for decades and that has always been precipitated by a lack of political imagination where the Republican Party say there is a limited amount of Resources Available and appeals to their worst instincts instead it could be frame the available resources could be have cooperation between the demographics what makes this misdirection possible is the battlefield is the mass media those programs we consume and the allies of the United States is on the falsehood if anybody succeeds they do so at your expense. With patriarchal men watch television they are trained by conservative media to see one entertainment after another to prove that their dominance is threatened perk of those commercials that air show progressive values with reminders they must have the white right combination of products they are not succeeding as men. So the game on sunday nearly every play is overshadowed with a traumatic brain injury this is all they need to believe that the world is driven by us versus them and they are losing by the day. They are justified to feel something is changing. The world really is transforming around them in with those changes those are rapidly evaporating industry giving way to a new economy favoring communication and creativity while rewarding education which men are taught to oppose of the future is geared for feminine values in the education and democratization of culture does mean minorities have been held back in the past are realizing social and economic potential. The truth is the very people who claim to help men have failed them conservatives won elections by appealing to traditional values left working middleclass men in the lurch by not preparing them for the Economic Future always to submit the past and the present republicans lied to men by telling them the factories are coming back and that the mayans would be reopened and told them to resist even the most common sense gun control as their children were murdered in classrooms and told them to hate Higher Education all the studies and books told the same story that the times are changing and you Better Change with them. Even more tragically not always in their best address the occupation so desperately the manual labor jobs and the jobs my family have filled were awful in the first place men toil and these careers are underpaid and often miserable summer suffer horrific injuries and exploited by companies that hardly ever reward labor or loyalty. They have long fallen for the greatness of capitalism. Of the system can be challenged but the myth of limited resources and limited results has been damning them to misery and lesser outcomes. Applied upon the most recent activities and terrible instincts that forced him to cling to the notion of entitlement and patriarchy that hold them in power Donald Trumps rise to power was paved with tragic misunderstanding and anger and frustration refusing to seat the patriarchy for what it was in the Political Movement to reinforce the delusion that loyalty is unending because the fragility is unending. As long as they continue to liee in the shore then this is in the case, they will never have to face the sobering truth but the problem isnt an external threat. Its always been an internal defect. Thank you. [applause] id like to have conversations about this stuff and get out in public and to talk about my family and things. I would be happy to just chat if anybody has any questions. I assume people that are here are ready to have this conversation. I was really worried about writing what some would refer to we are in the same page doing the same thing but i think at the heart of it, men understand intuitively the expectations are unrealistic. I think we all feel very lonely and that sometimes. The statistics are just really upsetting. In a lot of instances there are partners and family members that have to do this for them. What i found is when i talk to other men particularly ones who dont want to talk about a patriarchy. They dont want to talk about revamping masculinity they still talk about the burden of masculinity. To get rid of the power construct we have based around it they feel it. They feel like they have to have these responsibilities and on top of that, i think they are i had a man come up to be in minneapolis and i was worried because as i was doing my presentation, he gave me some bucks. He came up to me and told me that he painted at the event to have an argument with me. In the middle of it he told me yesterday to wonder if he and his wife could have had a better relationship if he would talk to her more and it is tragic and hopeful the idea the prospect of being able to talk to someone without wearing this unnecessary burden some hardware, but it would helwould somebodythat itwe more gives me hope. It doesnt mean they cant express themselves in a masculine way. I wear flannel and basically every day. It doesnt change what i can wear out and about. To reconsider some of the things ive done and have seen in the progressive views in comparison to your loved one in the traditional upbringing . I keep getting asked this question how did i get out and theres a couple things there. I dont think there is such a thing as getting out. I was raised in a patriarchal home and even though i question it and had written a book about it and am in the country talking about it, its still ingrained. Men who have been raised in those situations if we are not careful and if we dont keep an eye on if we can reverse back and take advantage of privileges that are damaging so that is the first thing. I was extraordinarily lucky to have my mother in my life. We went through some very bad times. A string of abusive men, physically, emotionally, verbally, abusive men. They would hurt her because that is the way they maintained control in the household. They would hurt me because i didnt conform to the idea of the strong, tough boy. My mom would take me aside and emphasize empathy and tell me feelings are important and they need to have them. Shes an incredibly great woman. The other factor that made it possible was i had a grandfather that was a war hero and hes the most sensitive man that ive ever met. He was able to be sensitive in our family because he was a war hero. Nobody could question whether or not he was a real man. He had a purple heart to prove it. He fought in world war ii and came home with so many injuries and mental and emotional baggage that he would cry. He went to peoples bedside when they were sick and played up. Hes the one that did the emotional labor and he told me once there was nothing wrong with crying which is a revolutionary thing to tell a young boy to let them know if you need to cry you can cry if change is the addition of a boys life. It means we can access our emotions which a lot of men by the way theres this incredible medical condition i would butcher if i try to sa tried tot loud but its basically where men shut off the emotions so much they are not able to recognize it anymore. It feels like it belongs to someone else. Allowing them to cry and show emotion keeps them from that, keeps them within themselves and constantly questioning the use of the influence of my mother and grandfather and unbelievable string of people who did give up on me on times when maybe they should have because i went through my own period of time i was problematic. I drink, ran around, thought i was performing a role i was supposed to do. I would get into these points in time i hated myself so much i wanted to kill myself. I engaged in a lot of suicidal isolation. If they feel that they were supposed to be which is one of the reasons people if they fail at being a ma man able they botd the newspaper they seek help. Im really very grateful there were people in my family into my circle had loved ones. It took a lot of people in the took a lot of time is what it did. Im going to go back to the story that you did starting with when the tree fell. I like many men would have felt like oh no if they see im not a real man. Im curious if you have an idea what the normal dialogue would be or what you could say in the situations. Im glad you asked because i think about this all the time. I live in rural southern georgia. I came outside. This hurricane hits and a giant trees across the driveway and theres nothing i can do. Ever since i was a child i tried to become like a typical man. I have an ax i bought at lowes that i never used to. I went to my garage and i walked out like this isnt going to do anything. Im not paul bunyan. I cant chalk a tree in half with one fell swoop. I came out and there was a neighbor who doesnt talk much. He yells for his dogs. Thats the only thing ive heard him say except for this conversation so he comes over and ive learned from being around my family you communicate with traditional patriarchal men. You answer it sometimes groaned to get things across. He comes over and says do you have a chainsaw . He didnt say good morning, he said do you have a chainsaw. I said no if youve never heard a person with more disappointed. He spit on the ground and said why not. This was my first house. Im still getting all the necessities. You know what i mean tools are expensive. He goes back over to his house and gets his chainsaw. He starts chain sawing each tree that gets stuck and in my neighborhood is very popular to have these decked out golf carts with a bunch of chrome and flames. There is a giant group of neighborhood men parked out on the road watching him offering advice. They are going to get chainsaws and every one of them asked me if i had a chainsaw and when i told them know it is the same sound. The thing about it is ive done a pretty good job of creating what i call a persona. We all do that, im sorry but politics and prose this is terrifying. I have to come in here and play a character in to get dressed up in my armor. It took about into the world id have to sort of become a version of the man like the men i grew up with wanted me to be. People who didnt know me when i does that little boy, i seem like a pretty typical working class hoosier. That was a crazy moment for me because thats disguise that i had created like this working class hoosier not having a chainsaw in front of my entire neighborhood emasculated me on a level i never thought possible. And then i just kind of walked around for a couple of days. I was lucky because for one being a white male in america you dont often have to question yourself and you might not have to wonder am i doing the right thing, why am i doing this and behaving in this way. But that coupled with what was going on in the election made me rethink that persona in who i pretended to be. There is no shame in not owning a chainsaw. It is a cool. Its so ridiculous that a tool fan personified american masculinity. You see it on tv all the time. It says you can pay 300 or 400 to pay you to feel like a real man. It made me question myself into the persona and the society. Weird enough, that totally ridiculous situation is definitely what started me down the track of thinking about all of this and during the investigation of it. Can you talk a little bit about what you think rebuilding might look like . Thats the 64,000dollar question. People who might not know, here are the ideas of the policy masculinity. People on the offprice media spend a lot of time when people say, they take it on and assault on masculinity. Thats the idea that was there and it tries really hard to keep them from questioning whats actually happening the idea of the toxic masculinity is talking about when men are insecure about their masculinity its been proven time and time again by wednesday after another they are feeling insecure in their relationship and they lash out because theyve been taught that it can be anger and violence is but eventually comes from that men are supposed to be strong. Men are supposed to be protectors. Those are not bad qualities. For instance men lived shorter lives because they are afraid to go to the doctor. That doesnt make sense. They are courageous and constantly invisible but they are afraid of what the general practitioner will say so they dont get things treated for instance my father tragically died at 59. He didnt go to the doctor for 30 years and had unchecked diabetes its the way that its always been a. Of the more i investigated the history of masculinity and how we got here its because men in a lot of ways are actually weaker than women. Biologically, women have tolerances to almost every major killer disease. Men die from these diseases left and right way more than women. Biologists have found it looks like masculinity that was a side product of men being insecure about who we were and how they worked in the world so they built up again the persona, the thing they walk around with. Their character. So, we need to talk about why we do the things we do. And i think the easiest thing in the world is for men to look at everything from the things they wear, the things they purchased at how they treat the people around them. And on top of that, and this is one of the biggest things of all, men need to hold each other accountable. Male relationships in large part are not great. Sports are popular for a reason. It keeps us from talking about our feelings and what is going on inside. When men dont talk to one another, they feel isolated, alone, and field they are failing in some way. By the same token, men have to step up and start telling them to stop being misogynistic and perpetuating greed culture and quite frankly they need to love each other accountable. I think if we start making those moves and changes and start actually questioning why we do the things we do and why we are the way we are i think that this whole thing falls because quite frankly it is a very fragile by. I was kind of curious about how it might vary based on the different races and ethnicities, religions or nationalities. That wasnt my story to tell. My particular background, and this is an odd thing because i come from this extraordinarily poor family in this impoverished area and its one of those things you tell someone where i come from and they have power and privilege they will roll their eyes at you and scott. They do not believe they have power or privilege because quite frankly, they have different types of power and privilege than maybe they havent examined or thought about. I am very interested in what systems have been put in place in order to control people and in order to install power hierarchies. And in this particular instance, america is not alone in this. We have our own strain. Its based on this old idea of american exceptionalism and manifest destiny. The old idea at the heart of america was its free. Everyone has equal opportunities. So, men could go out and prove themselves while doing this they are subjugating entire populations of people giving genocide. Then we make it to the Pacific Ocean and weve covered a lot of ground and men are still lacking and they havent proven themselves. So then we get to this point where particularly white males start to judge their worth based on how they give themselves so that my family for instance of multiple generation laborers, factory workers, they were never going to make it. They were never going to have a plain their name on it or live in a golden tower, but they killed themselves doing it. They failed but they gave themselves to their work. The men in my family with so much older than they actually are. My stepfather has a hard time getting out of bed in the morning. Hes never been reworded, never. Other people i know they have lost tens, limbs, live lies peoe tell themselves, they flipped these really desperate wives. But im really interested in the intersection between those tragedies and how it also is used to model may manipulate them again to construct this power hierarchy into ground of the world it has a lot of different traditions that american masculinity is particularly tied in with these capitalistic urges into the idea of american exceptionalism. How will this play out Going Forward where its going to be this strong image because the i havent always been a political reporter but in 2015 and 2016 i started sneaking into rallies and walking among the supporters. It didnt make for a good couple of years but i started to notice in the crowds that type of misogyny that was waged was unbelievable. We heard all these things where they are saying walker up for these crimes or shes not an honest broker, those are things people can say, but it wasnt that. It was explicitly gendered. It was a lot of misogynistic slurs and talk of Sexual Violence against her. When you really got into these rallies, they were constantly talking about harming her and not just political but personal. At first i thought it was all a bit theoldbut then it started te shape. Who was this woman who thought she could run the country who thought she could then basically finally emasculate the american male. If she won, it would have been an emasculation to a lot of these men to have a woman on top of the power. I dont know how its going to play in 2020 that we are already seeing it with a lot of candidates. Im sorry that im so tired of talking about the likability of the female candidates. Im tired of talking about whether or not they present a people will be intimidated having been in power. I think that we have to do better. We have to move beyond these old tired ideas and story lines, and i think that starts from the very top. Politicians have to be better, the media has to be better because if we continue going down this road, what happens is you make it a possibility for a Political Party like the Republican Party to base their entire powerbase on this stuff. They get the vote of people who they harm economically and they do it because they played up. Thats why george w. Bush bought a farm and played rancher and why they are always trying to talk tough and bringing back factories. They can be manipulated because those things can be played on. We have to get better and if we dont come its holding us back from addressing things like Climate Change. You look at laboratory experiments, men who are insecure are overwhelmingly against Climate Change and dont believe in it. They dont want to address it because why would i worry about other people and by the same token they are afraid of social safety nets and education, all these things. But they are not actually. They are doing it to seem like they are tough. When you have that taking place it leads to really bad places where not only is the government gridlock that we cant even agree to the major problem thatf the claim are real and its because they are lost in the illusion so it has to be addressed at some point or i donwere idont know whats goio happen. Its going to get really bad. Can you talk a little bit about how this book was maybe not influenced by your being a College Professor on college campucampuses today . Im in the rural georgia and i kind of felt when i moved to georgia i come from indiana but that is every now and then. I went down to georgia and what i actually found was the next generation is incredibly progressive and i dont even just being politically but i mean in terms of how they view the world. So for instance, gender. When i talk to people from the generation before me and interview them for the book or my projects that have is gender a construct it as such an alien idea to them. My students when they can present themselves as female and the next as lumberjacks. Its incredible. I had this moment and its one of the things i wrote about here because i had to sit with it. Theres a lot of blowback against colonials. Its almost become a nasty word. They are soft and privileged and all this stuff. I presented it to a certain extent for a while this masculinity thing is a death n now. We see all the time they are there for us to connect with because america treats crimes by white people different dont say that the problem. Mass shootings because of the radicalization ive talked to extremists and former extremists and to a person they will tell you the way that they recruit and im talking abou about nazi groups and white extremist groups if they find insecure young man. Theres all this stuff at the root of so much fascism in the history of the world. These things that are happening right now are happening because there is a change occurring its demographics and its unavoidable. Its going to happen the people that are fighting it right now are fighting a losing battle the stuff that i used to believe him to be trapped by was totally in my head so that played a big difference. Thats for sure. The its to engage in selfcriticism. Im very lucky i have a College Degree and you are lucky you have a College Degree and teach at a school. Critical thinking is the cornerstone of my education but a lot of people do not have that. So how do you give people the tools to look at themselves critically and to examine their beliefs while still in a broad and accessible way still making it something that is not necessarily comfortable because soap examination is never comfortable, but something that is accessible and an important part of our society to engage in. It all comes from safety. What i mean by safety is again men who feel like they are a load and insecure because the expectations are ridiculous nobody can be invincible or strong their entire lives. Its absolutely impossible. So, men are scared and theyve been proven time and time again when they are scared and insecure they lash out and over performed and they are violent and featureless so first things first you have to provide them safety even while there is danger and that is not to say people should put themselves in danger but if you have somebody in your life who is struggling, and i think we all know people like that. Like when you hear them talk into trump does a good example of this. Im just going to say it its really pitiful. Its like when he has these moments you watch him and hes such a boldly you sit ther it td you watch like you are so sad you have to boast about how much money you have and who youve dated and how strong and how much everyone likes you. Its sad and we have these people in our lives when we hear them talk, what they are doing is telling us what they are afraid of. If we listen to them and we hear you think status is what makes you a good person, theres obviously Something Else missi missing. If you tell men that its okay y to be vulnerable or they are not alone so for instance if you have a partner that will not communicate if you tell them it is okay if you feel sad because otherwisotherwise what ends up g is we become enablers of this thing. I dont know how many people in my life have said thats just calm. Like well he doesnt talk about his feelings, so people never talk to him about his feelings which is tragic and sad. You just make yourself open. And i think the hopeful thing about all of this is i think Everybody Knows it is unrealistic. If you give them love and support in concurrence with safety i think that it can change a lot of lives. I talk to christian pick a. He told me the only reason he was able to get out is because people have had. She was saying with these terrible things and people would still say i love you which enabled him to get out. If men know that they can be loved and appreciated and that they could be safe although they are not living up to those expectations, there is hope. It is a really daunting process, and i assume some people are more reachable than others, but i think that it begins by giving them love and as much safety as you can. I m. Not sure what my question is, but toxic men stand not just socioeconomic but also trump like but then there are also the women who love them and have been paid by them and you see them at the rally is standing right next to their man saying walk her out, right along with them in. I think that you are right if such a family like that has been able to send their kids to college so that they get to hear other voices into their opinions, the next generation is a deed where our hope lies because a lot of women stayed home and didnt vote for hillary. Yes she shot herself by the foot by not being in certain places where she should have been, but this toxicity is not just a minute but in the women who love them and they hope and pray for this country that the unifying factor will be the kids who go away from that nest and go out and are educated and read and interact with people from all over the place who believe in different kinds of things and learn to love the difference is. One of the biggest misfires i dont know if you saw it but it showed children watching donald trump on tv and it was like what kind of an example is he setting and it focused on how he was a bully. I will tell you something from my family, the men and i Family Savings that are so much worse than anything donald trump would say behind the collector into their wives and mothers and sisters and people around them love them. So there is a cognitive dissonance that happens but says if he is too vulgar and awful to be president than you are saying that my son or father or brother couldnt be president that is an issue. What we do a lot of the time is we like to pretend that this stuff is very simple and clearcut, but its not. I found some really alarming thing is in terms of the role that women play so for instance, if a woman is in a partnership with a man and for whatever reason she starts making more money than he does she will actually over performed her role in the household. She will do more work around the house while shes the main breadwinner. She will over performed in order to make him feel better. You have other things where women are put into these tests with men and unconsciously they submarine themselves so they will not outdo them in. I talked to a woman in florida last week and she told me it was really heartbreaking she told me she had been married for i believe 24 years and there have never been a conversation where she expressed he her folded religions to her husband. She didnt want to make him feel bad. She didnt want to make him feel intimidated. She told me she never thought about the fact that she had become an enabler of this idea and ahab promoted in her husband to the idea that women are not as intelligent or competent. So, what we actually do in a lot of ways and its really mind blowing when you start looking at these numbers we continue these things on tests, economics, social situations we are constantly playing the role that isnt real. We had a really hard time getting out from behind them, but the good news again once we start realizing it is a social contract once we start realizing that we are subject to a lot of forces that are not under our control, you can change. I got an email fro from the woi talked to him she said she sat down with her husband had told him if he was just gob smacked like i never wanted that to happen if she said i know you didnt, but i did. I think theres hope. They had their first real conversation in like 24 years and that all happened because she admitted that it was something that happened. The biggest fear in the drawback is all the stuff that we dont talk about. So much of the important stuff in our lives we neglected to actually vocalize and communicate because we are afraid. Once we start actually communicating and getting rid of that fear i think amazing changes are possible and its a totally revolutionary idea to have those conversations. We are going to have him at a table and he will be happy to sign books and chat a little bit more about please join me in giving him one round of applause. [applause] [inaudible conversations] so good to see you. The new cspan online store has booktv product. Go to cspanstore. Org to see what is new for booktv and all the cspan products. And live friday a discussion about updating the 1996 Communications Decency act which gives websites in the unity from liability for what their users post, live from the American Enterprise institute at 10 am eastern on cspan and at noon eastern Heritage Foundation hosts a forum on the rebuilding americas military project focused on the u. S. Army. On cspan2 at 7 30, jim mattis talks about his new book callsign chaos, looking at his life and career in the military. Next a us air force official joins the discussion of military resources and monetization