A boarding house near the legislature building. And putnam came to him. Putnam was old enough to have been his father, came up to his room and said youve got to get up out of bed because were going to cast the vote today. And he said i cant. He said youve got to. So he did. Some people say he was carried in on a stretcher. I found no proof of that. In any event, he got to the legislature. He gave a powerful speech, and he voted. And the measure to introduce slavery into ohio and thus the whole Northwest Territory was defeated by one vote. [applause] and yet nobody has ever heard of his name. [applause] people have said to me, if you had put this in a novel, your editor would say no, this would never happen in real life. It did happen in real life. And we should know about that and know about him and hes the one who did more than anybody else to get education passed by the Legislature Later on providing School Public schooling public learning all the way through the university of ohio. 30 of our population is illiterate. We have still got a long, with long way to go and we have got to get busy and fixed that. [applause] absolutely. You are doing a good piece of it. You know you are in many ways a Great American teacher of history and you have brought history to the masses. I want to know, what is at stake for history and schoolrooms today . Do you have an idea . I think its largely im not trying to be unfair but the teachers and the required courses in the system. Teachers should not he allowed to major in education. They should major in the subject. [applause] the American Teacher who reached more children than ever lived was mr. Rogers. He was taught by a woman who taught at the university of pittsburgh named Margaret Mcfarland and her great admonition to teachers is to show them what you love and they will love it too. Now you cant love something you dont know anymore any more than you can love someone you dont know so if you graduate with a degree in education you dont know anything about english or whose deeper history particularly and if you are assigned to teach that course you are going to be very good teacher. I would also bring back required courses. 80 of our colleges would no longer require taking any history in the four years of college. Thats wrong. I think its also important a student understand fairly early something semi far required. [applause] i would like very much to read you a couple of things if i may. Please do. This is an account by the granddaughter of one of my five characters remembering how life was growing up in the family. And particularly heard grandmother. The barger children were raised as one and catherine would remember quote to be useful, to be pleasant with your playmates, respectful to superiors, just to all, black or white, good to the poor not showing pride our selfishness but kindness and goodwill and to see to it that we look to our own rather than to the faults of others. There was an expression that her mother most frequently repeated, count the day lost at which the setting sun sees at its close no worthy action done. These people, imagine this, we have been telling the truth. They did not believe in lying or cheating or being unkind to people because they had some to kill your day, who believed strongly that all men should be not only created equal but treated equally and who worked hard to be useful all their lives. Many of us in this room i know were brought up that way. What did you do today to make things a little better for somebody . Id also like to read to you one of the passages from one of the letters that ethan cutler wrote to his wife, sally. Their correspondence is marvelous touching in the extreme. He is up at the legislature in massachusetts in late december. Christmas is about to happen. He wants to be home and he is still trying to get this legislation through about education. He wrote to her, sally a long letter over the quote thickheaded mortals and babes of politics. I have just returned from attending a meeting of our committee and all is a hush in slumber in the adjoining rooms the boarding house. They understand plain questioning his sometimes taxing but this evening our committee has to contend with art and avarice combined. There is nowhere to be found knaves were designing them in the legislature were deciding scoundrels lurk and speeches and demure looks they calculate two and trap the unwary and like bloodsuckers leach and the public. Do you see how things have changed. [laughter] he was fed up, truly tired of it he wrote. My head, hands and even heart are engaged in the labors before me but by no means did he consider giving up. With his new england background and his devotion to the cause of learning was no less than ever and he succeeded. Great. [applause] now this particular story, we dont know it and we dont know it well enough. There is several questions i want to ask you about the first of all the mix of people who work in this rush west where you have young el graduates, Young Harvard graduates. You have also the warriors who just finished the revolutionary war and who are being taken with me. You have a kind of rough and tumble and you have these ideals at the same time which seems to me a kind of representation of america the way we do things. You know the frontier. There are those who have come from the battlefield and there are those who come from the halls of education that will be useful to you. I think one thing we have to remember is this is a serious reality. We have to understand how hard people had to work them. It wasnt just that they will leave and work with as a contributing life but work was survival. And children worked, women work. Women in many ways worked harder than men. This particular group, this is very very important were fundamentally descendents from the puritans. Every time i undertake a book i learned an immense amount in one of the things i have come to understand that i never did it for as well as i should have is about the puritans. My impression was they all wore black and they wanted nobody to ever have any fund. They didnt wear black. Their ministers did. They wore colorful clothing and they like to sing a bit like to dance a bit like the little wide they were human angst but what they did leave and was education, learning because it was their connection. In order to understand the realm of god, religion, a better life, better understanding, better humanity you had to be able to read. Technically you had to be able to read the bible. So there was no question about the necessity of education. Hence all the great early schools and colleges like harvard, gail and others were all started as they believed in education. That became part of our country in large part because of the success in the new realm called the Northwest Territory. Imagine if slavery had been introduced into ohio and illinois, the difference in our history. History turned on that one, even though Abraham Lincoln or ulysses s. Grant and think what has come out of ohio and to what we can attribute this to come it may be something in the water i dont know. The man who first circled the earth and the man who first put his feet on the moon not only came to the same place, the same state, ohio they came to the same part of ohio. Is that question though . Im not sure. At the sun, we can go on and on all came out of this place where they first introduced Public Education. And of course the Wright Brothers. I loved it when Wilbur Wright was asked what is the secret of success as you understand it . He said. Out the good mother and father and grow up in ohio. [laughter] i hope this doesnt sound pretentious because ive never said it in front of an audience before but i feel with every project i undertake im trying to do something for my country. Indeed you have, indeed you have. [applause] you have taught us about american ingenuity. You have taught us perhaps it even though the world was smaller back then and much more controllable and in a sense you see in this book you see ohio growth from cutler who comes in the first you know people that actually go west to establish themselves in ohio. By the end of the story there are millions of people in ohio. That enormous energy of building. He got off on the right foot as did all the territories. I dont know how many more minutes we have but i just want to tell this audience something. Im just reading a book that is phenomenal. Its called silver the sword and stone and its by somebody named maria ron in. Hes also very generous man. Honestly i thought i knew a lot about history. I know nothing about history compared to whats in that book. This whole history of latin america and all this was long before any of the colonial people showed up. This brilliant american is an immigrant and this brilliant american has done a hell of a lot in her short time that deserves more attention, praise and gratitude than youll ever get. Thank you. Oh my goodness, oh. [applause] i think i just died and went to heaven. David, lets talk about some ways that the world was so much smaller than because i wanted to ask you how could we get back to some sort of ingenuity, hard work, respect for, freedom of religion which sometimes in some places we get lost in how we get back to the values of education so that when people leave and we heard yesterday from david some people graduate from college and never read another book. How can we get back to some of those values or do you think thats gone . I truly believe the people who are doing the most important work in our country, clearly the most important work are our teachers. [applause] they are shaping our future. They are the ones that mold all of us and i doubt there is anybody here today who cant right away remember mr. Soandso who changed your life because of the way they taught some subject by something they once said to you that you have never forgotten. I have had teachers all the way through grade school, high school and college that i know changed my life. Their attitude and enthusiasm for their subject in their understanding that you have to work to achieve learning and the information isnt learning. If information were learning if you memorize the world almanac hed be educated. If you memorize the world almanac you wouldnt be educated, you would be weird. [laughter] and the difference between information or facts in a story and forest was a great novelist is that if i tell you the king died and then the queen died as a sequence of events. I tell you the king died and the quick queen died of grief, thats a story. Its that difference in the story and one of the writers who influenced me enormous lake barbara tuchman. She said theres no secret to teaching or writing history. Tell a story. Each of us is a story. Each city, each town, each road whether we go west, south or north in the story. Every river is a story. Mark twain said that right away. River towns are story towns. Theres always something passing through, always something new. We always want to know how does it come out . I think if we can encourage our children to get up out of the chair and do something besides watch television if we could get people working on good projects it could be building model airplanes were a kid you working with the library of congress. We can do that and we can encourage them to do that. When i got my First Library card thats for me was as exciting as when i got my first drivers license. It changes your life. I grew up in pittsburgh and the library in the Carnegie Museum in concert hall are all under the same roof. I think that had a big influence on me and all the others growing up there because whenever thought of them as separate. The books, the music, the art come the science the dinosaurs all part of a rainy day saturday and a terrific part. Part of education, part of the story. I was just recalling this morning i went with a High School Classmate with his mother and father on a history tour, spring vacation and we drove to charlottesville and went to monticello and saw the old campus at the university of virginia and then went on to washington and then came back to gettysburg. This has opened my eyes as nothing ever had. I was busy and i also thought the university of virginia looks very appealing. My older brothers had gone to yale and i was thinking i would go the ale. My english teacher had gone to jail when he was a wonderful or from maine named lowell and this i went in to see him after i got back from a trepanier said mr. In his i just had a wonderful trip and we went to the university of virginia and saw the beautiful campus then i was thinking maybe i might apply to the university of virginia. He was standing right close to me and he was considerably shorter than i and he jammed his finger into my chest and he said you are going to yale mccullough and i want to hear anymore about it. He didnt say lets sit down and talk about your innermost feelings. [laughter] it was a different approach and i never thought about going to the university of virginia again. [laughter] straight teachers change the world. Ive been doing a collection of prominent people who figured in our story in all fields, music, art, literature, politics and who was the teacher that they gave credit for . Every single one of them had such a teacher. One of the most lovely of all was what she had to say about her teachers and then of course she wound up being a teacher. I dont know how many are teachers here but you are doing what needs to be done. [applause] speaking of teachers i want to know what you think. You are a person who has really two ways of communicating or hearing one way of communicating. Its astonishingly powerful voice as a narrator. We have heard your voice on the john adams series and ken burns. We have heard davids voice telling the stories that telling the story on a page requires a certain mastery of language, a certain sensitivity, sensibility towards the rhythm of a sentence tell us about your approach to language itself. I have always felt to be a writer you have to be a rewriter so i write everything i write many times over. I also believe in writing for the ear as well as the eye because if someone reads it back to you for you in some cases read it yourself you hear when you were repeating words for your sentence structure is repetitive. My wife rosalie reads everything that i write aloud to me and we were working on the last chapter in my book about the adore roosevelt. This i will never forget. She came in and she said theres something wrong with that sentence. I said was repeated again. She read it again and i said no, theres nothing wrong with that and she said oh yes there is. I said give it to me. I read it to her and i said see, theres nothing wrong with that and she said oh yes there is. I said lets just go on so we went on and the book eventually went on to the publisher and it was published and ago wonderful reviews except in the new york review of books in the review by gore vidal. He stopped at one point and said sometimes however mr. Mccullough doesnt write very well. Consider this sentence. [laughter] i have to tell you Something Else about the voice. There is a big snowstorm in boston winner living there and everything stopped and you couldnt get food. I went over to the market to load up on provisions and we worked out a list. We have got everything we wanted except cashews and as you well all know you cant survive without cashews. There was this fellow walking by with a start market label on his shirt and i said excuse me sir but could you tell me where i can find a cashews . He said yes i will show you follow me so we followed him and he pointed them out and i thanked him very much and he went on his way. 10 minutes later or so i was checking out at the Cash Register and he came up to me and he said excuse me, were you the narrator of the ken burns series the civil war . I said yes, i was. He said i have to thank you from the bottom of my heart because when that series first came on the air i was suffering terribly from insomnia. [laughter] he said i would hear that voice and go right out. [laughter] i dont believe that. Absolutely true. I think that writing is allimportant. I think the first page of this book is crucial, critical. I think that how we put the ends is critical. One of my favorite endings of one of my books is when the Wright Brothers put on their first exhibit of what they could do at home in a cow pasture where they had been experimenting all those years and orville wanted to take his father up and his father was in his 80s. Up they went bishop right back a wonderful man and all the time they were up there Bishop Wright kept saying higher orville, higher. Thats the. Also the quote that i began the book with wilbur said no person ever soared in a calm. You have got to have adversity. You have to have a wind against you in order to liftoff and that is so true, so very true. If everything were easy you would do nothing but sit around and you would not only not accomplish much of anything i dont think wed be very happy. There is always something to fix and always people who need help and always in dances that are exciting. What is happening in medicine right now under our very noses is going to be written about for years and years and maybe the most important events of our time. Exciting and its all human ingenuity, human perseverance and admirable use of the mind in working together, all of it. I wish i could live another 80 years. Its going to be exciting. [applause] we do to. We do too. [applause] i also must insist on revealing the secret of my whole career of success and accomplishments come everything. Her name is Rosalie Barnes mccullough. The rosalie is our secretary of the treasury. She is chair of the ethics committee. [laughter] and she is the most wonderful editor and partner in this work that one could imagine. Sweetheart, would you please stand up . [applause] [applause] that is a great segue and thank you for that because that was going to be my next question and thinking of rosalie how helpful shes been especially trying to save you from that sentence whatever it was. As a member of my gender i want to say because when you treat john adams, as scale is there. When you treat the Wright Brothers their sister is their. When i treat marshall roebling Emily Roebling takes over. Civic absolutely and in this book might goodness the women are added building. To make it indispensable. They have never been given sufficient credit but that is changing, thank goodness. [applause] years ago i read a marvelous book. Ive never forgotten it and i still tell people about it. A woman with an distinguished name ashley montagu. Called the natural superiority of women and he has to be this seriously an anthropologist and a scholar. Women live longer. Women are less susceptible to disease. Women mature in their minds, their bodies faster than men. They are stronger on a per weight basis. Its very easy to understand why. Women are necessities in order for the race to survive. Men are no good. Remember 90 of our time living as cavemen of prehistoric people all the men had to be able to do is plant the seed and go out and face a saber tooth tiger pacman had to raise these young minds, these brains because we are at the only animal who is ready to go. Therefore they have to be around with the mothers and women for 18 years and now its probably about 25 years. The mind doesnt fully develop until 22 or 23 years old. But this is wonderful. Thats progress. That is real progress. David i want to thank you from the bottom of my heart in the bottom of everybodys hearts here and i want to. The president ial medal of freedom citations which i think encapsulates the greatness that you have given this nation that you have given us in making all of history come alive. One of our nations most distinguished and honored historians David Mccullough has taken his own place in American History. The United States honors David Mccullough for as long time efforts document the people, places and events that shaped america and so we honor you David Mccullough. Thank you. [applause] wonderful. A great job. [applause] keep up the good work. [applause] you are watching tv on cspan2 practices live coverage of the 19th annual book festival to the next author discussion is beginning in 10 or 15 minutes. Its a discussion on race in america featuring harvards henry louis gates, jr. But while we wait for that and we want to show you a little bit of a program from earlier in the day. This is Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg. So today women to some extent take for granted their equality in the workplace but that was not the case when you were a young lawyer. You couldnt get a job in a law firm. You have not one but two strikes against you. You were. I was the first jewish and there were many wellknown firms that were not yet up to welcoming me. Next i was a woman. That was a higher barrier. The absolute killer was i had a 4yearold daughter when i enjoyed it from law school. He you were a mother so if they would take a chance on a woman, a mother was more than they were willing to risk. You have top grades at harvard and in your last year for law School School when you move to new york with her husband he was tied for first place at Columbia Law School and you are applying for a clerkship. Tell us how you finally did get a clerkship because nobody by and large was even interviewed for the u. For the most part. Those were. Title vii days so lawyers would say women are not welcome in the workplace are we had a lady lawyer once who and she was and how many men did you have that didnt work . I had a wonderful professor at Columbia Law School who later moved to stanford, jerry guenther. He was in charge of getting clerkships for columbia students and he called every federal judge in the second circuit, in a Eastern District of new york and he was not having success. So he called a columbia graduate edwin palmieri who was at columbia undergraduate, Columbia Law School graduate and always took perched from columbia. He said i strongly recommend that you engage with ruth bader ginsburg. Plumieris first thoughts were ive had women law clerks and i know they are k. But she is a mother and sometimes we have to work on weekends and sundays. Professor gunther said give her a chance and if she doesnt work out a young man in her class was going to a Downtown Firm will jump in and take over. So that was the carrot. There was also a stick and the stick was if you dont give her a chance to win will never recommend another columbia graduate at your law firm. [applause] thats the way it was in the not so ancient days for women. The big hurdle was to get that first job. Once a women got the job she did it at least as well as the men and the second job was not the same obstacle. There is a wonderful book. Let me mention this. Its called first and its a biography of Sandra Day Oconnor she was very high and her class at Stanford Law School but no law firm would hire her. She was asked, do you type and maybe we could find you a place as a legal secretary. She went to a county attorney and said i will work for you without pay for four months and if you think im worth it you can put me on the payroll. Thats how Sandra Day Oconnor got her first job. Speith even after your clerkship you can get a job in a law firm. You ended up being a law professor. I could have gotten a job. In fact another professor from columbia said how would you like to write a book about the swedish judicial system . This is a part of her life you will not hear generally, a question that normally doesnt come up. Anyway this was an irresistible offer because here i was in my 20s. Before he turned 30 i would have a book between hard covers. Monty and i married the same month he graduated from cornell so i had never lived on my own. I went from a College Dormitory to being married and i had what might be called the eightyear itch. I wanted to see that i could manage on my own. The deal was i would go. My daughter jane was to be taken care of by her father for about six weeks and when she finished school she came and joined me in sweden. I got that out of my system. I never again had the urge to live on my own. And then there was the opportunity to learn about a culture and to learn a language that they knew nothing at all about. Did you go to sweden with her she went back to sweden this year. It was the busiest anniversary of my honorary degree. What did you see on the street . Your picture. Yes. There were posters up and down the streets of one of the many saying that justice wasnt swedish. She wasnt daunted. We kept to see the posters in the car was zooming through the streets and it was like that scene in the movie french kiss where they never see the eiffel tower. They kept looking and looking and finally driving through the airport. You have been working on this years this book for 15 years. Did you interview all of the justices she served within how often did you interview her . What do you do when you have 15 plus years . What is your agenda . Let me tell you how all this began. They said inevitably people are going to write about your life so why dont you make of your official biography people you really trust and i certainly trusted when they back. The first time in history it became possible to accept that the equal section clause meant that women were people with equal in stature to men. [applause] so i knew wendys strategy and mine were pretty much the same. I knew she understood but we were trying to accomplish. I said yes to that. In fact when we came to her to talk about it she sat down at a little table and on the table there was a stack of documents and opinions and other things about this high. She said heres a Little Something that you might want to look at. Thats how we knew we were in so to speak. Did you in fact interview all of the justices she served with . I did not interview any of the justices that she served with but millie did. Between the two of you, you interview them all. Actually not all of them. Some chose not to be interviewed we are still planning an end if you put most of them. How often did you sit down with her for an interview . Im assuming he its a lot. Its a lot. We started out in that little moment in time after she was done with her summer and just before she had to knuckle down and prepare for the coming term and every year in august most often in the last week we sit down with her for three days in a row in the late afternoon. We have our own big. From that and this year it was a little different. We went up to new york where she was getting her radiation treatments. Anyway we sat with her twice that there and she remembered everything. She was perfectly normal except she was very tired which he has never let stopper and she wasnt letting it stop it then. That was a new experience for us in new york but then we came back down for one day, the day before yesterday. Every year we do that. And then we do a lot of things in between to keep track of her. Let me just say here in front of god and everybody Justice Brennan fine famously had a biographer who got Writers Block after he died in and somebody else usually had to take over the project. Im getting old. Is that what you are saying quest. [laughter] im saying you better not get Writers Block. Everybody here some of who are great deal younger than me want to be able to read the products of your labor. Well, we do too. [applause] thats just portion of Justice Ginsburgs earlier program from the National Book festival pizza and watch the entire event on line up tv. Org. Also on tuesday evening at 7 30 p. M. Cspan will be live with justice ginsburg. She will be speaking at the Clinton School of Public Service in little rock. Our live coverage of the National Book festival continues with a discussion on race in america. Harvards henry louis gates, jr. Is one of the authors who will be speaking. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] will. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] welcome to the panel at the 19th annual National Book festival brought to you by the library of congress. This festival is free of charge thanks to the generosity of donors large and small. If you wish to make a donation please do so on the festival app under the work that made on the apps homepage. We appreciate your support for this great celebration of looks and reading. We hope this day inspires you to make use of the incomparable resources at the library of congress, your very own national library. You can visit us in person on capitol hill from the web at loc. Gov. We are thrilled to announce libraries. The National Book festival presents series which will extend the reach of the festival with more Exciting Events at the library starting next month. Please check loc. Gov for updates on all the programs for children as well as adults. We welcome your questions at the end of the next presentation but if you have one for the authors please make it brief and to the point. You were giving us up permission to use it for the webcast. Finally i ask you please turn off your cell phones. Thank you. [applause] welcome everyone. Thanks a lot for joining us. I am a tv critic for National Public radio and we are going to tackle a small topic, race in america. We will solve it in about a half an hour. You guys can get out of here early. So one thing i did want to point out as the introducer said we are going to take questions at the end of this so i will ask the questions and let you know when you can start lining up over here. While we are talking start thinking of what you might want to ask these wonderful men and we do want questions, not speeches. Lets start on the far right. We have the distinguished henry louis gates, jr. [applause] thank you. Next to him is Steve Luxenberg the author of separate. Next to him just as Richard Gergel author of courage the blinding of oscar weathered and three very important posts that talk about the progress and the backlash against progress in civil rights in america and we are going to get into that but first we want to show a little clip that will tell you a little bit about the reconstruction documentary that aired on pbs that dr. Gates spearheaded. It will give you a sense of some the stuff we are going to talk about and then we will talk and you will talk. Here we go. Check it out. Most of us know that our country fought a civil war in 1860s but less is known about what came afterward the chaotic exhilarating and ultimately devastating period known as reconstruction. Did you ever study reconstruction a paragraph or two. We never really studied it. Reconstruction was our shining moment in the second founding of our country. Overnight people who are then divided to leadership themselves. Some of this is an incredible heavy having moments like barack obama becoming president. Those folks had no idea of what they were heading towards. Reconstruction produced a violent backlash, a racist backlash. I wanted to tell the truth about her history, not to punish america. I wanted to liberated but we cant get liberation if we dont acknowledge what we have done. Do you believe we as a nation are still undergoing the process of reconstruction . It is never ended. We are still trying to come to terms with the consequences with the end of slavery in this country. Its a chapter of our history thats been misrepresented and misunderstood. Its time we acknowledged the true story and complete the work of reconstructing america. [applause] scif i want to start with a question to you and we talked about this. People have learned about the reconstruction in school but they learned about the redemption and why dont you talk a little bit about what you discovered both in the book and in the pbs documentary and tell us about what we should know about the reconstruction and how it relates to what we are going through today. I took my first black history course called afroAmerican History. We were afroamericans at that time. Before Jesse Jackson had a press conference and told us we were africanamericans. We head to. W. E. B. Dubois book with black reconstruction followed by another black harvard educated historian Rayford Logan airport book called the portrayal of the nay. The voice was, the books subtitle is 1860 to 1877. Rayford logan goes to 1950. My whole exposure to reconstruction which i had never heard of until i took this course because it wasnt taught at my school was my whole exposure to reconstruction was with redemption. You might want to ask yourself why the rise of White Supremacy would be called redemption. That was a metaphor that Confederate States use because they were redeeming the purity of their movement and they named their movement a lost cause movement. What is astonishing to me is the rollback of reconstruction lasted far longer than reconstruction itself. The reconstruction most historians date from 1865 to 1877 by definition. But then the rollback took a long time. Im not going to give you a lecture for construction but just a couple Amazing Things that i had no idea about. And that poke your period only men could vote. 14 to the house and two to the senate. Heres the most amazing thing that i learned. Because of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 which is still on the books and the reconstruction acts of 1866 and 1867 black men in the former confederacy, former slaves got the right to vote in 1867. If you were a freed black person you only could vote and the United States in five of the six new england states. Give it up for michelle please. [applause] you could only vote if you were free black person and had been freed for generations. You could only vote in five of the six new england states, not connecticut and the new york state if you had 250 worth of property. Free black men in other words got the right to vote because of the 15th amendment which was ratified in 1870. Three years before because of the reconstruction amendments the former enslaved black men got the right to vote. 80 of these eligible, these black men eligible to vote 99 were illiterate because it was illegal to teach slaves to read and write. 80 and in 1868 day allotted usss grant president of the United States. Grant overwhelmingly won the Electoral College but he only won the popular vote by 300,000 odd votes. 500,000 black men voted for you is this grant. Lachman had elected a president of united the United States and they did the same thing in 1872. The final surprise, eric. There were three majority black states in the United States. South carolina mississippi louisiana much of are these black georgia alabama and florida almost majority black and this scared the bee jesus out of people in the south and people in the north because it was a someone said the first manifestation of black power. Reconstruction and was rolled back to the conspiracy of white people in the north and white people in the south because it was too much power and cotton remained the leading export in the United States to the 1800s. That was the truth. It was about the money. Racism fundamentally its about economics. Thats where the rubber hits the road. [applause] to make your book is about plesea burkas ferguson the Supreme Court decision that help them try segregation and its a decision that a lot of people dont understand and the ramifications they understand. What do most people misunderstand about plesea and how it affects people and where we are today lacks. Its the most misunderstood in Supreme Court history. Most people would say plesea was ejected from a railroad car but it was not an ejection. It was critical that it was a arranged well because they were the first pulsation of the passenger who had decided to sit in the car reserved for white people. They didnt want to sue. They didnt want to have a civil suit because that wasnt going to overturn the louisiana law enacted in 1890 and escape saying the Southern States in this rollback they were going through depression and what was formerly a custom, its very important to note that separation, separation is not a southern idea. Its a northern idea because before the civil war in the south you would not separate people who. Its in the north where very few free blacks in the state of massachusetts where you teach, the state of massachusetts in 1840s fewer than 1 of the population are black. Abolitionist, the youngest was member of the abolitionist was frederick douglass. When they tried to reject him from the train, according to his memoir, he required first six people to oust him. [laughter] and secondly, he said he grabbed the seat of the railroad car train and he was so strong the he lifted it up. I dont think the story is probably true. [laughter] so what we misunderstand is the my book is to narratives. When narrative is about the people who make the decision in their lives where they come from but the other narrative is about the people who resist. The black men and women who resist separation and you cant have one without the other one. You cant have a legal case unless somebody brings the case. Whether it is an arrest or a civil suit. But the resistance is what animates the narrative. What i found was that if you look at the decision and there are a number of precedents, most of those cases are not individual acting on their own without support. They are part of a group, the Abolitionist Group or some of their group there is always some support because the existing is hard, resisting is harder. And the most important thing you can do in the face of intimidation and violence, thats what people based on Public Transportation among other places. Mars import thing you can do is say no. And you have to have someone behind you. Sumac so richard, your book upset me the most because i should know who this guy is and i dont. Tell us who Isaac Woodard is and tell us how pivotal he was in the cause of advancing civil rights in america. He was an africanamerican soldier, sergeant and battlefield decorated. On his day of discharge after three years of military service, he gets into a dispute with a white bus driver on the way home. Literally the last leg to South Carolina where he used to rendezvous with his wife after three years of separation. He asked, can i step off of the bus to use the restroom and the bus driver takes a stance the it black man who would even ask Something Like the, he curses woodard and to his surprise, wondered curses him back. He said speak to me and i am a man, i am a man just like you. At the next stop, they go ahead and get off, he steps off of the bus and he has ordered arrested. On the way to the jail, the police chief of South Carolina beat him and blinds him. The story becomes a major issue in the African American press and eventually reaches eric truman. He is outraged the a battlefield decorated soldier has been treated this way. He directs the prosecution of the police chief. In 1946, they are not prosecutions of white cops for speeding black citizens. This is an extraordinary event in the south. Or anywhere. Truman is so moved by the story of the beating of Isaac Woodard the in the letter in which he writes the attorney general and directs the prosecution, he also says, we need to do more than just prosecute. We need to establish a president ial committee on civil rights. Out of the committee, comes the disaggregation of the armed forces of the United States. Triggered by the incident by quarter. The case is tried before the United States district judge in charleston, who never had a particular interest of race and justice, went the all weight allmale jury acquitted the Police Officer in 28 minutes, he is horrified and it sends him on a jury of study and reflection. The eventually makes him the first of the Great Southern civil rights judges. He eventually writes the great dissent and brings one of the four cases the comes and goes up to beat brown versus board. It later becomes just brown. All out of isaac winters blinding. Like the three books we are talking about, show you this progression of redemption, and then truman gets inspired in the desegregation of the armed forces inspired and becomes an argument for desegregated schools. We see this with history through the three bucks. One of the lessons, one of the common threads, his role of the courts. The reconstruction could have been rolled back without the role of conservative is him in the Supreme Court. I wont bore you with the details but in 1873, 21876, then the famous civil rights case 1983, which rendered null and void effectively the Civil Rights Act of 1875. One of the reasons i wanted to tell the story, zero and then, you tell the story of judge waring, he is so shocked. He is an eight generation of johnsonian, he doesnt have a nickel in the time of civil rights. [laughter] but he was a decent man. Even gets to a. In 1944, during the work and your honor correct me if im wrong, everything i am saying is from the book. He settles for a man voted as for his lawyer. Equal pay for equal work. Thats revolutionary. The president was supposed to put down the black man. They said lets turn it against the south and yes we are going to have separate but youre going to pay us equally. You needed a white judge to play along with the game. And he did it. He encouraged Megan Marshall to keep pushing and push for another case which is a year later i believe. The ended up being taken to the Supreme Court. He knew it would be because he was a dissent. He writes a dissent because brown. That is an amazing story. What you are saying on the stage are three people who wrote books about the roles of the judiciary in different in a minute ways. The lesson to take away, as we, the lesson of the most important of reconstruction for me, is the rights the we think are inviolable, the are permanent, like womans right to choose. Affirmativeaction, you fill in the rest of the list. This can be taken away just like the. That is why we have to register to vote. [applause] one of the things thats interesting to me. I am reminded of Critical Race Theory is that i am reminded of derek l. I am reminded of this idea the civil rights, some people believe it dances only to black people but why people get something out of it too. Particularly in your book richard, this idea the one reason truman actually was because of the black vote. You talking about brandt, truman is elected, stunning upset because of massive africanamerican turnout. About for urban states. The swing states. American politics would never be the same. Is also this concern the america will look supercritical type trying to woo countries into the American European alliance. Let me tell you something about the importance of law. For much of American History, the courts were the place where civil rights plates tonight. [laughter] scott and all of the whole line of cases says the black people were not citizens of the United States. No matter where they lived. They were slaves. The combination of a whole line of cases the have pretty much gutted the Civil Rights Act and the civil war amendment. Then there is williams versus this is to be which basically sanction franchises. Really until 1939, when gains versus canada, the courts had not erased the cause for civil rights. Really it is a slow process. The ending of a white primary in smith versus all right, the ending of segregation dining cars. In brown versus board and there is a whole line of court cases. That is only a piece of the American History and im not going to get into a debate okay. [laughter] but i will say, the nothing is permanent in the law. Sorry to say the rule is an important principle but not an invite. Also as you said, there has to be people who advocate the law because the law of objectives do not do this by their own initiative. There has to be people standing up for their rights. Look at the most famous dissent. I dont have any problem with people reviewing my cases. [laughter] is very important for us not to look at the Supreme Court of the 19th century through the 21st century. What is the mean. We talk today of diversity, ginsberg, kagan, in the 19th century you had nine white men, they are all of the same class. They were all of the same privilege. They all had wealth and found the world the same. [laughter] except for harland in the late edition of all were northerners, not southerners. Kentucky was the only southerner in the only dissenter. In the civil rights cases of 1833. His evolution is a remarkable one. Its not a complete one. It is a flawed individual. Even refers to White Supremacy in his dissent. He is saying the of course the white race will always be the superior. He goes from being a proslavery candidate for congress in 1859, two he opposes the civil rights of an inmans after the civil war, emancipation, and he opposes them on the grounds of either state issues. If were going to abolish slavery it can take her kentucky, we do it not congress. He changes his mind and completely turns it over and by 1833, he writes this raining dissent in the civil rights cases. He cares about this because he knew as a southerner, he would be scrutinized. He couldnt write it for a long time because he was his wife flames she helped him by placing the equal. He said has pan flu the next day after his wife put it on his table. This is the delicious irony. He had retrieved from the Supreme Court supply office. He is known for this dissent. As i say there are flaws in the dissent but if the evolution of man who was proslavery, who was opposed to the Civil Rights Movement to being the only dissenter, must not be easy. You would know better than i would to sit in the room with eight other justices and to be the only one to say we must have equal rights. Especially in 1896. He was consistent about it. I wanted to ask richard about this. So we have this judge, who hears isaac winters story and transforms him. His wife is in tears after she leaves the acquittal. How did they not know what black people were going through at the time. Is caused me to cause me to work and look hard at other southern whites who came awakened during this era. They all arose from a racist path. They were raised in racism. Justin was certainly among the most segregated cities in america. How could he miss the treatment of africanamericans. The southerners had kind of blinders on about this. With the child the was it stripped the blinds away. He suddenly saw the world and as it existed. He found it intolerable. He was like the only man with site in a colony of blind people. Talk about courage, had a very comfortable life in charleston. He was at the top of the social, eight generations of charlestonians, his parents and his family had prominent for multiple generations. He became the most ostracized man in the white south. He did it with his eyes open, he knew but he came home after he got the white primary case. Number verse versus rice. He does wipe our lives will never be the same if i allow black people to vote. And she said, you gotta do your job. He did it with his eyes open. That is the title of my book. An example of courage. He was living in this little southern town, knowing they would be vilified and ostracized for what they did and they sign up as plaintiffs to the marshal and he said these plaintiffs have shown an example of courage. I want to ask you a question. Maybe just a little comment. You have to understand why why South Carolina is so important. I know you cant comment about dylan but i can only say he said judge in the case. If someone had awakened me and said yes where someone has just killed black people in the church. I wouldve said charleston. Charleston was ground zero for black power. Is it the black estate in the unit. 48 percent of all slaves ancestors, enter through charleston. It was as i said earlier, a majority black state. Reconstruction by 1901, was kicked out. There had been 20 black man elected to congress. Twentytwo to the house and due to the senate. It came from South Carolina. Seven at one time. Y. Had all of the slaves but it also had a large free black community. A paradox. Its like you can take it home and tell your friends. In 1860, there were 488 thousand three back People Living in the United States. 3. 9 million slaves. Of the three black people, you would think the they would live north of the masondixon line. Wrong. They lived in states where slavery was legal. Three sets of my grandparents, i am from West Virginia hundred and 20 miles of the potomac. From here. Maryland. Its heavily in pittsburgh and dc. Three sets of black people who lived and were free from the eighth thing 18th century on, they were 30 miles from where i was born. My family never moved from this area of the mountains and the Potomac River valley. Why didnt they move. Because in virginia, remember it was for ginny and until 1863, master had to give you land. 1823 migrant parents were free. They had a thousand acres of land from Harding County now West Virginia. What are you going to do, leave your land and go to boston or new york can be homeless. Give me a break. All these people stayed in the south. Only reason they lyft the south was to go get a phd. He never went anywhere. Thats really important in the case. I say the its unlikely that the plot the case wouldve been brought in any other city than other than new orleans because it was brought by a mixedrace group of three blocks they had been freed for hundred years, and by the 1890s, they were passed. [laughter] and they spoke french. [laughter] im going to break and rock back and say going to start taking questions. Ill ask one more question of professor days and then we will targeting you guys. Were just getting started. [laughter] so the whole. Of this is this idea the we learn from history. The history can show us the way and can inform where we are right now. We look at the story reconstruction and we see this idea of civil rights progress followed by a huge backlash. Some might say the main sort of happened more recently. Certain person. Getting elected to the white house after a black president. Im not saying any names. [laughter] what is the solution since you guys are the experts on history says doctor gates, you have this great documentary and book on reconstruction and redemption. How do we redeem redemption. I think thats an excellent session. I believe that the emergence of White Supremacy and its bald manifestations since the last general election, if you want me to put it the way. Every time there was a black Family Living in the white house for eight years. I cant see how anybody in this room to doubt the. I think the from some of our fellow americans crazy. We thought, i interviewed andy young recently. He said, he thought people had a freedom hi. You remember all of his books and articles at the beginning were beyond race and into racism and its over. [laughter] i didnt believe the but it was america at its best. The election of baraka obama was american and is best. [laughter] [applause] because so many issues of race and class were not dissolved by reconstruction. They just have been simmering. I am not trying to vilify South Carolina but just use this as an example. Im not saying everybody was against trump and they are racist. Maybe clear, i say only god knows what the other person side. I am not into namecalling. But i do know the donald trump is a genius at manipulating the white supremacist. But we have to do is find any manifestation of White Supremacy and crush it. Whenever it raises its ugly head. [applause] tell us your name address your question. A couple of you brought up how things have changed or how we may have moved on from all whats happening during the reconstruction and jim crow. A lot of people believe that the election of 45, was the start of racism. I dont know whats going on its on my america. He just gave racist another platform. Even when barack obama was elected, everybody showed how they were racist. Because a black man was in a house position in this country. What you think the ramifications are the would allow people to pray something new when in a reality there are just showing how racist theyve always been. We allow white people to continue thinking the we have overcome it. When reality is its racism. In a very strong issue. Let me say this, when the first african stepped off of the boat in virginia in 1619, 400 years ago this year. This was the great slave of america. The great constitutional convention. It was compromised because the Southern States would not join if slavery could be abolished. This is the great unresolved issue. We are trying to create a more perfect union. We have made progress. The world of isaac wintered in 1946, the world of lynching in the 19 an early if 19th and 20th century. Its not the same today. Doesnt mean theres not racism today but it is taking different varieties. Africanamericans vote. What is your most important case in the interview with marshall was expected to say a certain person. He said smith versus albright and he said that is the texas white primary case. I always figured that if we get the vote, Everything Else would work itself out. Absolutely. I would say race is our national conversation. We are either talking about it or we are avoiding talking about it [laughter] [applause] the job of the historian and any storyteller is to remind us the White Supremacy is not a new thing. Most white people people like us, why are we riding these histories and engaging in this. Unless we write these stories, you cannot have this conversation in a real way. White supremacy is not new, we all know the. Just because it is simmering and barry doesnt mean its gone. It will be gone until we have a conversation in a real and continuing way both in elections and outside of elections. Its very important the we historic size. We dont talk about if an ottoman thats frozen in time and sing at all points in our nations history, thats one of the surprises during the reconstruction. We had anti black racism. To justify planes of people of african descent were genetically biologically inferior. In order to justify slavery. This was from the 17th century at least. But after the civil war, anti black racism morphed into Something Else. White. Because they all of a sudden have all of this power. The genie was out of the lamp. He had to put the genie back in again. I give you an example, they were very flute puke flames that the black man raped white women before the end of the civil war. Frederick douglass and many other people, who are fighting lynching, use the as an example. If black man have a natural propensity to want to rape white women, how come they didnt do it during the civil war when the white men were away fighting the north. They didnt. They virtually none that i can even think of and im sure some probably happened. It becomes the claim. We have to protect white womanhood from these black predators who are venal. Genetically. How many of you saw when you were in school, birth of a nation. Everybody remembers it being about the civil war. Its about the role of reconstruction. In the excess of blackman in the legislature and there is one scene there. Feet up drinking whiskey eating chicken wings alice and a cheer. Legal for black men and people of different races to get married. The whole thing about the film is about raping. In this scene or this story the blackman doesnt wait rape the white woman. It didnt exist. In the pre civil war times. Its amazing and im just saying the we have to study how antiblack racism rose and changed and continued when underground, resurfaced, in order to find it. The best way to find it is through education and proximity, the surprising fact the so many black and white kids go to segregated schools today. All of these years after brown, it is a shock. They couldnt believe the all doublet limit speed was translated the we are seeing today. What i will ask is one panelist asked one question. [laughter] im the missionary, the ip owner of black lives matter and life matters and it is my sermon. The hijacking of my work, is part of a racist act. There is a false narrative that is Going Forward and i have no cofounders no organizations and black lives matter. Com. It is not mine either. Copyright and infringe the and inflammation. My question is when a person here the Copyright Library of congress, rights at work, creates a work, and the work not only gets stolen but then continues to i will say get recirculated in a piracy. That is the exact same thing as copying my movie and selling it, is the exact same thing. How are we as a United People going to stand and uphold you as copyright for everybody because we are here at the National Book festival and that is what we are all about. Lets protect everybodys copyright. This is a good question especially in the fact the there was a sermon in mark integrity of the work. What i would say im sorry for interrupting you but we are not copyright lawyers. We dont really know the and we dont know the details. I dont think we can really answer the question. Thank you very much. Im going to have to move on. Wheres our next questioner . You can see us later. [inaudible conversation] i am a descendent of agnes matthew. Wow. Did you get her permission to put the in there. [inaudible conversation] [laughter] how he actually wrote the dissent, the one person who in reading your book is least likely to do the. Do you think thats a possibility this day since we now have so many judges who have in different ways and are still pray every day the, what is a saying the Clarence Thomas said. [laughter] sumac hang in there sister. [laughter] let us join hands in prayer. [laughter] is an amazing story about agnes who was homers greatgrandmother and was free of the slaves in 1779, under the french. These people were slaves. The mixedrace group in new orleans was in the sandwich layer. They didnt have all of the rights but they were free. Yes a question about harlan. I think he is an of somebody who can change who it can involve and look at as judge nehring does, there are two examples here. I would say the that is one of the Inspiring Stories in my bo book. This was frederick douglass. Who also changes greatly over the course of his lifetime. In 1876, he addressed the Public National convention. The first blackman to do so. He told them the he called at your constitution, your decision to enfranchise us and held them to an account and said how are you going to follow through on what youve accomplished. That is the message i think the people were white need to hear. We always have the power, how are we going to follow through and continue this evolution. Wonderful next question. Thank you gentlemen for coming out and sharing this with us. My question is to professor casey. I just wanted to know if you could share a little with us about some of the stories about the communism and social political achievements in several reconstruction legislatures the have several black members. I can do it quickly. Public schools, its such a shock but there werent statewide Public Schools in the United States. That is most places in the United States particularly in the south. So if you are wealthy, you could educate your child privately. But there werent statewide schools there were Public Schools but not statewide school systems. I was one of the best things the came out of the reconstruction government south. The black men who were elected along with the white men who were elected. This was americas first grand experiment with interracial democracy. It was crossed but at least it tried to get off the ground. The was one of the most positive of the benefits. Ill show you how effective voting franchise suppression can be. In louisiana had this 1898 sta state. That is when they found ways to circumvent the 15th amendment through poll taxes and everything. This is how effective it was. In 1998, there were a hundred and 30000 blackman registered to vote in louisiana. After the constitution was adopted in these new regulations work implemented, by 1904, 130,000 had been reduced precisely to 1300 and 42. 1003 and 42 by 1904. Thats amazing. When we see Voter Suppression today thats what we have to keep in mind. Next question. I am a social study supervisor for Public Schools. Thank you. I have a question. The fight against racism, whites his supremacy is through education. However, my question is. What advice to give someone to people who are trying to fight for equality Public Education for black people especially in our country. Actually in social study. I think about your book, there are semi students who have never had opportunities to learn anything about this because they dont even have classes for it. I dont know if people know this but students might have social studies class once every six day rotation. One theory is for 45 minutes. Maybe. In the same thing three to five. I cant help but to think the thats a challenge. Especially when what we are able to do because they were aware. They knew rights. Some of this civil rights issue of a great magnitude, one of the best kept secrets thats going on this country. [applause] i am angry and fired up every single day because i know my students arent learning about this. I think the most radical thing the could happen in United States is that the amount of money spent for students, could be exactly the same in every School District it in the United States. [applause] the would at least neutralize the economic issue. Ive been very blessed, my kids went to Public School in massachusetts. We moved to harvard square. Give me a break. Its not the way the it is. I would hesitate to tell you how to spend your time but take your passion and other groups of peoples passion and go to the school board and be active. Im not saying its your responsibility but i think that is your cause. The only way to make it everybodys cause is to make it loud and public [applause] my name is jessica and him a descendent of slaves. Im a social studies teacher from maryland. [applause] i have a question for anyone who wants to answer it. I actually looked at my family tree and found some really cole stuff. [laughter] 20 think the role of preparations could be and feel about the racial issues the we have buried and are not quite dealing with. Id like these brothers to talk. [laughter] when the Senate Majority leaders in the conversation the of slavery, and doesnt continue into conflict labor, all of the other impressions of colored suffered between the end of slavery, and today we dont have a real conversation. So many ways and paid other than money. I think its a mistake to always reduce it to payment. Education for example, affirmative action. Your comment about equal amounts of money spent on every School District for every child colored or white in the country, the would be a start to reparation. Today i agree. And affirmative action. White women on this room benefited as any back person and we need to keep a four gender equality and racial equality. And its about to go down. Is one of my Worst Nightmare out mayors the it would if it comes court, its going to bite the dust. Thats a bad thing. We have friends the are not necessarily racist. What policy remedy would you recommend the governmental level to equalize the doubt. [applause] [laughter] i think they are exposing all of our in expertise. [laughter] out of order. What strikes me about a lot of this is we have to get people to admit the some of these conditions is is racism and prejudice is him. Once we can agree on the, then we can see about pulling the systemic racism out of the system. Thats really but all of us are talking about trying to do, why were focusing about education and the impact in desegregating and using the as an argument about desegregating other places. We are trying to look at the systemic forces the are backed and prejudiced and backed and you know, what i might call opportunistic racism. Or strategic racism. Its about using racism to achieve a goal. Then you sort of look at how does the work and what are the mechanisms the seem to be an element of assistance to make or strategic racism and can we pull those out. Ive always hope the once you reveal the roots of those practices, then people will have the transformation the we saw. Oac now in the age of certain people, the age of trauma, is the you can reveal the racism and they still dont change. I think that is our biggest challenge right now. Next question. Haya wanted to thank you all for your wonderful presentation. I have been an estate child part judge for 11 years. I want to ask any of you if you have any suggestions on how to stop the revolving door because i see them on a daily basis and i think particularly young people who have never received the education and the Mental Health treatments, job training the they need and then they dont even want
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