Its where well be signing books. We were lucky enough, to have the journalist and author and cohost of the podcast. And he will be doing a brief q a with our author before eric will do a reading and then well open it up for questions. So about our author he was the director and researcher at the National Intelligence of science and path algae for the u. S. Intelligence community. Before joining nfa he is executive Vice President of disney imaginary. A phd neuroscientist. In an inventor with over seven patents and pending patents. His book includes brain, safari and tonights book is all substation. If everyone could give a round of apostle commack. Hi. Again thank you for coming. Thank you for showing up, we want to think diane for organizing this event along with kim peart who is here in spirit if not a person into the bookstore in los angeles. Ericas had an unbelievable literally and metaphorically career and for we get into this true story of spy craft which is an amazing book which is even better if you buy more than one copy. The book gets better with every copy that you buy. I want to begin by asking you, what did you do at Disney Imagineering and how did you end up there . And how did that take you to the nsa . Disney as executive Vice President of engineering and we design and build theme parks but we also had a broader mandate under Michael Eisner to invent new technology for the whole copy. Themepark rights, new broadcast technology, internet games, consumer products. And how did that, what made that make the in assay say we could use a buddy like you. That is one of those stories that you cannot event. I used to do a lot of work with abc and abc news and ted and when the videotape of bin laden telling a saudi cleric that yeah i did it, surfaced, they put the tape on abc brought me in as the expert and thinking thanks. And they said, do you think this was fake or not and i said no and expand my reasons. But there was a high run underneath the said doctor executive Vice President Disney Imagineering. So someone nsa, i think it mightve been general hayden saw that piece and at that time is right after 9 11. And congress and the entire intelligence communit committeem having imagination. So imagineering, he went in and asked me if i wanted to cover on the nsa basically in charge of technology and i said yes. Again following 9 11 clearly in the years that followed, the nsa played a Critical Role in collecting and gathering and analyzing information, nonetheless this book is not about that. No. How come . The reason i got the job at nsas micra sister had been fired. There is an Advisory Board that evaluates the performance, this happens the government they bring in retired executives and so forth to do a report card on how this person is doing in my predecessor got fired and they had acting director looking for somebody new and at the same time 9 11 happened so they said lets bring in an outofthebox thinker so it was six months and to my tenure where i had to report on my vision and what i was doing with organization which leaving disney and working with nsa added four zeros of the people working to me and added to my budget. As a big part of the enterprise. So the doctor cared a lot about this. And i gave my pitch, he often understand and i read about this in the book is called the nsa phase. Ill try to put on right now. [laughter] so you walk around nsa and this is what you see. No emotion, nothing. You cannot read anybody. For six hours im readin pitchiy thing for the director. I actually knew jeffrey and mike goslin and i when we are Disney Imagineering houston come by and anyhow, i got no feedback and i was starting to get nervous because the last guy who did the pitch did not go so well. And i was waiting and they all filed out and no one said anything to me. Except one guy, who i actually met before and he brought in the sky who is on the Advisory Board of nsa who knew about him and brought him into disney. I was looking at the sky the whole time and had not said much in the meeting which did not surprise me because when he came to disney we called him the diode, that is something that information goes one way but never the other. So we called him the david diode or the roach motel of information. Information checked in but did not check out. This guy comes up to me and he says maia talk to for a moment. And i said okay. Anna nsa you have to understan understand the thing i love about hollywood, they stab you in the chest in washington is 180 degrees opposite. And he said to me, i voted against hiring you, i thought you were mickey mouse. I dont think that now but there is something you do not put in which is a certain kind of tradecraft they used to practice when he was executive nsa. In that tradecraft has to do with what do you think of his spying but his standoff attacks and we want to recover conversation of data over the and resume something that you to get that information. That technology has gone down and he wanted me too resurrect it. Thats a great segue for this book. This story is a story of such an operation but before we had all the technology and before there was no internet and now no computers really, telex machin machines, why did you want to tell the story and tells a little but also about your protagonist of charles ginter. What Charles Gandy said to me in that meeting, you have to start investing monday intel into this problem because ther r adversaries are very strong and i say give me example he said the russians. Everything i learned about spying, the russians taught me. And i said, look the russians are thirdrate power, the of an economy less than the size of texas and im sorry that i had to bring texas into this but are you curious, we should really be devoting a lot of Research Just to make sure russians dont get ahead of us . And hes a real gentleman from northern louisiana but he lost it. And he said dont ever underestimate the russians. And have a story about them, here it is. And that is the story that he told me that. To point out to me why we should never under the estimate the russians. And read a bit from the book now. Yes, let me say little fact store. His 1978 and we have what we call in the intelligence world, assets you think of them as foreign spies, people we recruit to steal secrets. In russia they were getting arrested, tortured and executed all over the place and some committing suicide with cyanide pills that we are given them, so much of a problem that turner who ran cih shut down all intelligence gathering in russia. And the head of the station, gus hathaway gets very nervous about this and no one is helping them figure out where the leak is. Obviously there is a leak. So he heard the presentation by the sky Charles Gandy who was talking to me in 2003 in this meeting, he had heard and so he actually called the director of nsa and said i need this guy to come to moscow to find out where the leak is. So this is a chapter called the chimney. About a week after this would been 1978, march or april 1978. So gandy is there in getting settled in, he will start looking for what the leak is. And hes a breakfast one morning with the state to permit security person and this is what happens. The next day as they had done about once a week since gandy arrived, john who was a state Department Security person and his wife dawn invited gandy to breakfast at his residence where they chatted about charles a mentor. Breakfast was over and john said, i got something for you. Follow me. The two walked over and climbed to the seventh floor which housed the departments for state department employees. They stopped in front of the store the west facing apartment and knocked. The door open almost immediately and a mustache man wearing white coveralls smeared with dust poked his head out and motioned them in before closing and locking the door. John bainbridge, the man introduced himself offering his hand. He was long brown hair they gandy thought he had gone out of style a decade earlier and he was excited, a distinct gleam in his eye. We have them here to check out the chimney. But gandy hardly heard john, his attention riveted on a two by two opening that a been carved out of a brick in the west wall of the apartment. The opening were fractured bricks, dust and debris along with a sledgehammer, a massive chisel and a hammer which bainbridge had used to smash through the apartment wall. The opening in the wall which extended almost 4 feet through a massive mortar brick had a patch of old gray carpet eight over it to the lower lip with cables and ropes running from the apartment pointing into the void. He said, thats the chimney i told you about except is not actually a chimney. A little insertion, a year earlier the secretary had heard something in the chimney, thought it was birds, brought in the guards to look at it, they look down and saw not only no birds but it was not a chimney because theres no fireplaces. So imagine this, theres a chimney in this market him and ac for 15 years and nobody sketch ahead because they dont have any fire place. As soon as they said we have to go to the chimney and stop them, youll see that the kgb actually stop the fire looking into the chimney. So gandy poked his head to the opening and looked up and down the shaft but he could see little. Got a flashlight, gandy asked . They exchanged a knowing glance and bainbridge handed gandy a light from his utility belt saying we careful not to fall in. Lying on his stomach bainbridge carved out of the brick wall and he wormed his way into the opening. About one floor above him he spotted a glimpse of aluminum and focus the flashlight powerful beam upon it. The three element beam antenna was mounted in the shaft aimed up at the right and aluminum box the size of a carton of cigarettes was attached to the antenna connected with the cable. Another cable emerged from the box and drop to the bottom of the shaft in the mechanical assembly holding the antenna had simple pulleys with courts hanging down all the way to the shaft bottom. Gandy backed out of the shaft and dusted off the red brick dust from his pants. The cords are interesting. Handing the flashlight back. There used to pull the antenna up and down the tilted. The mysterious birds gripping noises that your secretary heard the Previous Year may have been the other side, kgb manipulating the antenna with the cords you mean the alien antenna . Probably. If its a beam antenna you have a main great sensitivity along the axis. The post could allow the other guys to aim the beam at different targets on different floors. Right now it seems to be aimed at the upper four to the southeast corner of the main building. Gandy pointed in the direction he thought the antenna was aimed. What is over there . They exchanged a glance, he said, among other things the chief of mission office, that means the investor, the number one person there. The three men were silent for a moment pondering their vocations. They kgb the obviously hidden the antenna had got close to the target of interest probably to pick up week signals from a bug or data implant. If the antenna were pointed at the Investors Office it was possible the conversations in his office were being routinely monitored or recorded. Or colbert and information appliance such as a fax machine or typewriter might be sending data was typed or faxed in the Office Straight to kgb headquarters. Given the ultrahigh classification and sensitivity of the conversations, this possibility was too horrible to even think about, especially because the frequent tsm, that means a bug sweep of the embassy included the ambassadors office had not found any implant or bugs. Was it possible that the soviets had developed entirely new generation of undetectable bugs . If so, was any part of the embassy safe, including the box . The box is mostly good thing in the cia station. Gandy felt an involuntary shudder as he thought about the American Assets would been arrested, tortured and executed over the last year. When can i hook into the antenna to hear what is hearing . That is the thing it could be boobytrapped so whoever touches it could have body parts blown off. It is happened twice before with operators, that is bug sweepers who tried to check out soviet implants, once in england and once in the u. S. And then theres the normal diplomatic bs, the soviets claim its on their territory in the smc was officially american soil but where the embassy ended and where the russians will begin was a topic of hot debate of foreign ministry. Okay gandy said. Please let me know when i get my hand on them. Gandy retreated to his office in the temperate quarters to think about the New Discovery into chart his next steps. [applause] this is a book of nonfiction and yet. Cia thinks its fiction because it pokes a stick in there i. I would not be surprised. But what is amazing, your ability to recreate conversations and what gandy was thinking, tak tells how you gote detail for the book. First of all ive done this to myself. I have been over there and done these sorts of things and locations working with individuals against particular other individuals. Ive been there and identity and i know how people talk. Then i interviewed gandy for probably 6 9 month and ive known him and we are very Close Friends we action talk to dana. So i know how he talks and i know how he thinks and as a neuroscientist of a very curious about how his brain works. He is a genius. One of the things about him he has severe dyslexia and i diagnosed and he did not know it. He just knew his teacher said in louisiana, population of 2500 or my wife and chris were yesterday, his teacher said youre not college material, youll never amount to anything. But hes a genius who can imagine things in his head, like a visual mohs art. Theres no accident he was the best they had. He was so good, when he left the u. S. The russian shut down the operation. Its like Michael Jordan is on the court we dont want to play. So because i wanted to probe into his brain and figured out what goes on in there i got great insight into his thinking. I am not going to give away who this by in the moscow station is but i will say at some level the investigation does involve microwave or found transmission or Data Transmission and it made me wonder to bring this to the present because this book has a lot of applications for the present about hosanna and whether, theres just an article in the New York Times yesterday that it cycled in a and the people are making it up. I was not expecting the question. We used to say, i type the answer but i have to kill you. But my wife is a physician and shed have to do the honors. And might be worth it to get an answer. Is a very good question. There are parallels, what he is talking about is starting in 1946 with the great seal bug where we learn that the russians had put a bug in the Masters Office and theres a great picture on the magazine with Henry Holding this thing with the thing about the size of a lollipop. This thing was genius. And americans do Something Like that. Had no power, irradiated no signal reflected radar energy. An invented by the same guy who invented the instrument, he was kgb anyhow there had been flooding of the embassy with mike royce robert, leading up to the 2000. In the cia did not know what his purpose was. Maybe because he was doing it too. And thats a fascinating thing, they kept saying we dont know what the russians are doing and they said come down also you. And they would not believe him. Its a fascinating thing about human perception, you can prove something to someone and hand them a smoking gun and they still will not believe it. Thats a happens in this book. You ask wise and relevant to today . Because what happens in the story is the russians got incredibly aggressive gathering intelligence against us. Penetrated very deep, succeeded, grabbed unbelievable intelligence and when they were caught, only bad thing that happened to them is that america tore itself apart fighting about it. Did it happen, didnt happen, who did it, does this sound familiar . This is an origin story for how we talked the russians to tweet us today. So to me, there is a story about the technology and the fact that the russians are very far ahead of us in this tradecraft which is shock a lot of people other than myself who is gone up against him. But the bigger issue is that the russians have a conscious strategy of dividing us and cause us to fight ourselves so they dont want to meet us on the battlefield. And even beyond a democrat versus republican, its nsa versus cia. That is absolutely true. There is only one graphic in the book and its called the who hates who chart. [laughter] basically you take the entire National Security from the president to the secretary of state to the secretary of defense and they basically all hated each other. When the thing is, you could change the names and take the chart and is just as valid today. When i was at nsa and went to my counterpart as Deputy Director and i said doctor x, i am from disney what nsa does is like chavez and what you do is like peter butter and he says lets Peanut Butter cup. Al qaeda is a target you are into me. This is after 9 11 and this goes on to the state. And i kinda talk in the book in the end about how the tribalism that you see in the intelligence world is not all bad because you want varying points of view but like anything else in the organization it gets out of control an unless leadership tas control. This is a little bit like the legal system, two people argued about something to arrive at the best truth. I think the argument in conflict is good up to a point. The cia was created to be a counterweight to dod, the department of defense because they were saying the russians are building give us more money give us more muscles in congress and wait a minute, we need someone to have an independent point of view and that conflict is a good thing but i was in gandy was the Defense Department, and essays part of the Defense Department and cia is not they report directed to the president. The tension has gotten really bad and got to the point where the director of cia, this is a mystery. What is the leak and what is the antenna, and the other mystery, the biggest mystery is two and half years into the investigation the director of cia called the director and said shut gandy down. Stop this investigation. And the question is, why. Why would they do that. You have to read the book to find out. All point out you did not answer about havana. Oh did not . Let me say this. There are eerie parallels, you have some kind energy flooding the embassy and you have the getting out there say we have no clue what this is and at the same time you people at nsa same data we know what this is. For amount under number of reasons. And we absolutely know what it is and its shocking the brains have been affected. Now we will open this up to questions, this is a pet peeve of mine, i ask please question with a . At the end. If you have a speech you would like to make an happen in no a sons brothers taylor, you could do that will resign the books. Any questions you have, that would be fantastic. Yes or. Given the russians intent pressure against the u. S. Systems, what is the safety of our election system . Denevi to repeat the question . We have the safety of the election system is oxymoron. I wrote an article that nsa approved how to hack an election. And being a former bad guy, i said here is how it couldve been done. And heres evidence and was done. I dont think theres any question that they got inside and did a few votes if for no other reason by preventing certain people from registering. It is really hard evidence on the and is so unbelievably easy to sway a president ial election if you know what you are doing. It is sobering. What was the most challenging part of researching this book. It happened 40 years ago by people who keep secrets and keep their mouth shut. So doing archaeology with people who do not like to talk was a real challenge. In iran in 2 tons of problems that way and for every one person that would talk to me there were ten to 15 that would not. I did a tremendous amount of digging in the archives to actually get the truth. Because a lot of the stuff is officially out there. Got the book he cite sources and explain where it was very all sourcebook. Thank you for that. Most of the research was in russian language and i had been a russian cyber analyst after left the government as a contractor for an agency of the potomac river. So i read some russian and i actually knew where to go to get a ton of information about russian tradecraft. The shocking thing, you truly blew me away, every Single University in russia teach these things for the information security. In this country almost nobody knows about it and im talking about things like how to recover voice and data from a computer by pointing the reader from a very long distance. Most people in this country dont know thats possible. But in russia its in a textbook and theyre not known for being open with information. Im saying well, the stuff is unclassified. In the back. Can you talk about how russians use a honey trap, what is a honey trap . And how do they use it . They call it a swallow for female or reagan for mail if its a male operative. The dissection seducing, make the target. In the story, thank you for asking that. By the way, this has suspense, it has sex they are handy in the room in the centeno where they bring it to them, what happens after words, he said bring me the antenna at the exact stroke of midnight and theres a knock on the door and he is expecting the sea and antenna and sent a gorgeous woman. And he said this used to be my room, i left my closing here. I have a bottle of vodka do you want to drink and i need to practice my english. And so he has boxes piled behind him to block the view he is doing stuff back there with his operative industry to get her out of there any notices she doesnt have a brassiere and then asked his description what was her hair color, eye color, did you smoke perfume, we know writers and he said honestly theres only two features i remember. [laughter] in those loom about me every night when i go to sleep. But it turned out that he said i cannot do the spring he steps out into the hallway and sees the k2 b guards plastered against the wall in her face drained of all color into runs down the stairs. So that was honeypot incident number one. Theres another one in the book with a character named huawei. You had access to all the stories, how did you decide on the story to tell and what kept you going because writers do hit walls. What kept you going . To me this is a story about overcoming. You have a character, gandy who had severe learning disability spurred and he overcomes all of that to come to nsa, he finds a mystery if you will an obstacle after obstacle is thrown his way. He is the true underdog. And finally he finds a way to overcome all the obstacles because of his character. To me this is an outsider journey in and the story of overcoming and thats the most important and inspirational part of this. If you met gandy using the guys a genius and when he realized where he came from, we were there yesterday with population 2500 in its way in the middle of nowhere and for him to come to that position and overcome what he did, that was a reason to write the book. Any other questions . If not lets think eric. It was great. Thank you all for coming. [applause] please buy, buy, buy. Thank you very much. Great questions. [inaudible conversations] here are some of the current bustling nonfiction books according to the wall street journal. Topping the list is terror west of her account of growing up in the idaho mountains in her introduction to formal education at age 17 in her book educated. It has been a bestseller list for over a year. Next American University professor abram argues that they must choose to be an ar antiract and work towards building a more Equitable Society and how to be an antiracist. He will be appearing on her Author Interview program after words next week and to discuss his book. Then its a selfhelp book strengths finder 2. 0. Following that is former First Lady Michelle Obama none more, becoming. The bustling requester. In wrapping up on the bestselling nonfiction books according to the wall street journal is mark manson device on leading a happier life. Some of these offers have appeared on book tv and you can watch them online at booktv. Org. Watch book tv for live coverage of the National Book festival. Today starting at 10 00 a. M. Eastern, our coverage includes Author Interviews with Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg on her book my own words. David sawyer, his book is the heartbeat of wounded me. Sheriff robinson talks about her book, child of the dream. Rick atkinson author of the british are coming in thomas malone, founding director of the mit center for collective intelligence discusses his book super mice. The National Book festival, life today at tenney and eastern on book tv on cspan2. David rubenstein, how did you get involved in the National Book festival . It came about through serendipity. I had been involved in the Madison Council which is the support arm of the labor of congress a number ofea
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