Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion On Energy Access Affordability 20240714

Good afternoon and thank you for coming. My name is siri worthington, executive director of the United States Energy Association and this is a us ea briefing on addressing Energy Poverty in the United States, a federal state collaboration. This is a little bit of a different topic for your sca. But one that we are very eager to have a conversation about and im hoping that this will be the first of a continuing conversation. Because the matters that were going to address this afternoon are taking on a degree of urgency. It always been urgent but i think myself that the urgency is growing so thank you all for coming. We have an excellent set of panelists here today. Or our discussion, we hope to have audience participationas well. Moderating todays session is mark will, mark will provide the discussion and moderate the discussion forthe need for Energy Assistance. He is an economist, and is an expert on local andregional energy and housing financing. He is consulted regularly for general state foundation and nonprofit agencies. These very experienced in testifying before congress and he is the executive director of the National Energy assistance directors association. And the Energy Programs consortium and is a Founding Partner of projects energy savers. So again, thank you for coming and illturn it over to mark. My first id like to thank the United States Energy Association for hosting todays session its a very important topic. Energy poverty, the United States, its also a global issue. Id first like to thank Barry Worthington and staff, Kimberly Grover and mohammed for working with us to put this together. What is Energy Poverty. Simply put its when a family cant afford to pay their home energy bill. A case difficult and daily choices paying for food, medicine and other essential in order to pay for their energy bill. Before i talk about Energy Poverty go , id like to introduce todays panelists, these are experts in the field. Who worked across areas from associations, corporate as well as state government. Before that id like to say just a word about the National Energy assistance directors association. Who represent the state directors of low income Energy Assistance programs , that the National Program that helps provide block grants to state low income families pay their home energy bill. Our first speaker will be hallie rouse me the quilting. She serves as northeast Regional Representative on the board of trustees for the National Energy assistance rectorsassociation. Holly works with ella where department of health and human services. In the office of community services. In the delawareenergy , also a assistance director and he contributed to 2008 edition of the spear handbook which is one of the most widely known internationally recognized set of common principles and universal minimum standards and humanitarian response. After howie, miss male he will speak and again he began his career with the u. S. Senate and work for the Vice President george bush. And then president bush. Since 1998 race has worked for the National Association of relatives were commissioners. Is now the legislative director for energy. Whereas hes responsible for legislative advocacy and energy and transportation issues in washington dc. Nina moussaoui works for the gas association, she told me shes passionate about advocacy and politics that she was in law school and learning about the Lasting Impact they can have on history so its currently legislative analyst for aga, the American Gas Association, she represents 200 National Gas Companies across the United States. Jessica franks will be the final speaker, director of Government Relations for the Edison Electric institute or ei. The trade association for investorowned electric power companies. Jessica covers appropriations, education, works or is ei. Before that she was Government Affairs from representative at alberton and works for john boehner and speaker paul ryan. Last speaker is kelly farmer, associate director with the florida Building Energy efficiency for the district of columbia. Kelly as you saw is management district Property Assesses Clean Energy program and of course a low income home Energy Assistance program. We have a terrific panel and the intent is to provide you with a perspective on Energy Poverty in our state and how its being addressed not just through one program but through a partnership with state utilities and local governments working together to help low income families pay their home energy bill. So a couple of things when thinking about Energy Affordability and Energy Poverty, what does it really mean . Is it some broad topic and we hear a lot about poverty in the United States but what specifically do we mean by Energy Poverty . For low income families about 10 percent of income is what their energy bill represents. Almost 4 times the rate for nonlow income households that gives you perspective. But the main point is that energy because its a basically like food, like clothing, it doesnt rise proportionately with income. So a middle income family paying maybe a little bit more for energy than a low income family but any day is pretty close. So were middleincome family might earn twice as much as a low income family, their energy bill isnt twice the rate of a low income family. But we say that a middle income family will pay 2. 4 percent of theirincome for energy, itprimarily reflects that they have more income. The other thing to keep in mind about this and i think makes it very interesting is that energy bills. In the winter and the summer months. So ill say that list logistic show 10 percent of the Families Income goes for home energy for low income families, during the winter months summer months in the 20 to 25 percent of their income you see how quickly this becomes unaffordable and in a very extreme burden. According to the Us Energy Information administrationthe average cost of home heating this winter was about thousand dollars. Like any other thing, these are averages. The families using propane to deliver fuel this cost about 18 1600 or heating oil, 1500, an enormous burden when youre thinking of a family earning 25,000 a year. Electricity it was 1174 and natural gas was 584 which isa much cheaper cost due to fracking and the overall growth in natural gas supplies. Low income families face agonizing choices every day when they have to buy energy. We survey families receiving Energy Assistance under the low Income Assistance program last winter and what we found, while not surprising reflects just how tight their budgets are. When Energy Prices go up because of variety of factors, for low income families they dont have much choice but to substitute, they can go and say were not going out todinner, will pay our gas bill. They can make those kinds of choices so energy for them is just more affordable for that reason really but families told us was fighting, its that 37 percent and most often in their home to save utility costs. 25 percent the temperature low what they felt was unsafe. 17 percent moved out of the house because they couldnt afford to pay their energy bill that winter. 36 percent went without food for at least a day and i think for thosefamilies is probably because they had to pay the heating oil , for natural gas there are rules in terms of shut off provisions so its not quite as dire. For those using heating or propane, the bill have to be paid. The one percent that they went without medical and dental care and 31 percent said they didnt fill a prescription so again, these are surprising but these are making tough choices when they have to pay their energy bill. And the last point id like to make about affordability thats become increasingly concerned with the aging of our society is people moveout in the hospital for a shortterm. They come home and they need often equipment, that needs to be plugged into the wall. Ihave to have access to Affordable Energy. 52 percent of the people told us they had disabled members of their family who rely on electricity for breathing machines or refrigerated medicine area they have to have access to Affordable Energy, its alife or death tuition. Not only is Energy Expensive but the costs of home heating including the pens on factors outside of the families control. There are arguments to bemade that they should save up for the winter but you cant do that when you dont know how cold its going to be area thats going to drive the cost of energy. When the amount you need you can control pricing, you could have a peek in the economywould help drive the price of energy where you could have geopolitical factors. Issues in iraq or iran or venezuela, drive up the price of oil. So all those things very difficult for a familyplan for energy costs. And lastly id like to talk about the low income Energy Assistance program. In some ways it the first thing i should be talking about. Thats the main federal program that helpsfamilies pay their Home Energy Bills , the block grant providing grants to state which are then usually redistributed to local agencies outside of people to give them grants to pay their home energybills. And cooling bills this summer. The program is not adequately funded. We received report 6 billion and it sounds like a lot of money. But close to 20 percent of the Us Population is eligible or low income. We can only reach about 20 percent, one out of five and the eligible population area thats the limit of what you can do with 2. 6 billion. What the state have done to target the neediest of the needy families, about 80 percent of the families that receive Energy Assistance have a familymember at either disabled , elderly or have a young child under the age of six. That really kind of reflects the limitations of the funding we have. Congress added hundred 50 million allotted for next year. While that might not sound like a lot, we can use 150 million to serve another 500,000 families so its not adequately funded but it does reach a lot of families and it does make a difference. Id like to give you a few examples of how lihe helps families. Moral context, this is a bunch of numbers california, a young mother lives in an all electric home as electricity shut off due to past bills of 800. The whole time making minimum wage and her husband worked in seasonal labor but basically its a very important family. Without electricity the family cannot use their home, access hot water. Lihe was able to assist the family by both paying their past due bills but also referred to the county program to increase the efficiency to reduce their bill Going Forward and another example, connecticut a single mother of two facing the challenges of being homeless. If you dont pay your energy bills, you lose your apartment, lose your lease. With connecticuts connected services you receive our subsidy and 500 in funds which allows it to become current under energy bills. 500 doesnt sound like a lot of money if you dont have resources and youre facing eviction,that can make a difference between staying in a home and being evicted. One last example in colorado, the mother was raising the children on her own because her husband had a stroke. Her car was repossessed and she was no longer eligible to work. She received a shut off for heat and could not allow her children to suffer the cold. She reached out to the program and received assistance and allowed her to turn her energy back on. And again, these are all comedies dont solve the problems of poverty but allows families to continue to stay safe. But that i turn it over to halley. Our next speaker and one thing id like to do is provide their thoughts and then openit up to questions. I guess mark really said everything, thank you. Mark said everything that was important and most of it is what i would have wanted to say also however, i would like to bring to attention some things here. For example a couple areas, how this journey started wasa couple of years ago when i started to shift my research more towards Energy Access , i noticed all the quantitative indicators diverge greatly from rebel experiences, for example Global Reports might note that developed country have hundred percentEnergy Access or the people on the field and energy vendors , researchers and everybody else was conveying to us at least at the state level totally different stories. We had thousands of missed connections, numerous disparities and even in the United States people use candles and lanterns for evening activities. They use various unsafe energy processes are cooking and heating. They dont have sufficient capabilities or transportation or personal hygiene cause the electricity had been disconnected. They had moldy dwellings and their households are often below World Health Organization recommended thermal standards which meet minimum 65 degrees fahrenheit for maximum asics and fahrenheit. So the question started, why do these reports reflect so poorly what is actually happening on the field mark and the reason is because Energy Systems are extremely complex. And they issued the reports, they tried to minimize all those indicators into very simple ways to lookat the world. So an energy, meanwhile energy is a hybrid system. So energy actually does support and it is important because energy supports all the provisions of basic needs. For example its all the cooking, lighting, sanitation, medical care, education, access to information and Communication Services and in some areas in our society has become an expectation that energy exists out there somehow magically and we dont have to worry about it and it needs huge support from preceptor. And the United States maybe we had done as Much Research as European Countries have done. And for example, in england , those department of health and social care and other nongovernmental agencies have estimated that old homes cost england alone around 850 million to 1. 3 Million Pounds annually which is a huge cost in society and that is not even count the Economic Cost of Cost Reduction and loss of productivity from people who have to stay home. So what are the questions that i think we sometimes dont think about. For example as a committee, we need to discuss what does Energy Access truly mean to us . Does it mean that everybody who needs Energy Services irrelevant of the cost can access them or does it mean everybody who needs energy can afford reliable sustainable and modern energy . Our Energy Strategy include all the aspects of Energy Access, availability, affordability, reliability and sustainability or do our strategies develop without realizing that we are overlooking some of those important aspects because we dont share our objectives with other stakeholders area for example, when we are developing Energy Efficiency programs, and we consider their affordability equally across populations. We include scenarios of Human Behavior into our Energy Efficiency outcomes and how they might materialize in the empirical world. Do we comprehend the forces of our ability in energy consumption. You understand the complexity of householdincome and how it can influence the portability of energy. We consider the availability of Different Energy sources and how they affect household capability of Energy Services and do we comprehend sufficiently the Budget Constraints and differentiate between disposable and across income. Do we consider Human Behavior and prioritization of expenses. Energy poverty also is a little bit distinct from an income poverty because most of the Research Shows that Energy Poverty really has does not fully overlapwith income poverty. For example, the studies show that between energy and income poverty , even though there is a strong relationship between income poverty and fuel poverty, there are more people still poor or not income forthen there are people who are income poor and not all the people who are income for our fuel for. So obviously thisalso includes a huge portion of the modern income household. So that is basically the reason why we think that these kind of discussions are important so we all can get together and start discussing exactly when we do strategies that we do include as much affordability and availability and reliability and sustainability because i think often when we do strategies, we dont think down all the strategies and effects to the household level. So i think thats it. Thank you mark. As mark said im with the National Association of regulatory utility commissioners. In short, the organization represents the public utility commissioners. Throughout the 50 states and territories. My comments here are going to be my own and are not necessarily the use of any of my members or their state agencies. Our primary job is to ensure that citizens of the states and territories have safe, reliable and affordable service. My members are by and large economic regulars. And when you look at the scope of their jobs, the addressing the Energy Poverty is kind of the small end of the scale. And rick and i were talking a couple of days ago and i kind of alluded to the fact that i feel like im going to be the son in the garden party at this one but i think some of these things need to be addressed. And being an advocate, i look for one of the issues when youre dealing with the federal dollars, utility dollars, state dollars is the perception of what happens to what work does and what its for and back perception ads and flows. Right now, were in what i think everybody would agree is a pretty good economic time. But again, im dealing in generalizations here so you know, if theres a point that an outline point, i will accept that criticism but in general, were looking at economic systems. Economic times rather. And that doesnt help us with the message on the need for both weatherization and weatherization is a key component , i might add. Congress will be marking up in the house anyway will be marking up a bill tomorrow which increases as mark mentioned, weatherization by 36 million and lightning by 150 million if my memory serves. And both of those are key components. And i wouldsubmit to every one in this room , yes, the affordability, the payment of the bills is important. But also ensuring that folks have a home or apartment, what have you that has the necessary weatherization so that the actual bill comes down and that i thinkthe first step and i think its a big step. My members do not regulate for instance oil, propane, wood or coal. We are strictly looking at this problem through the lens of electric and natural gas systems. And i mentioned we have a perception issue. Mark also mentions most of the lihe recipients are elderly children. If you look at perception either on capitol hill or in the population ingeneral , i would bet that 70, 80 percent of the public would never think that elderly make up the lions share in children and disabled of those recipients. And i dont know if its as an advocate, advocates maybe are not getting that out there but thats one piece of information that has to be put forward in order to start addressing the problem, is to allow the general population. To know where the problem lies. Who are we helping . Who are we trying to help . Some would say thats not a very big deal. I would submit that having wandered capitol hill for over 30 years, when youre talking to legislators either state orfederal , they want to know why does this money need to be spent anyway . We have damaged even in my own organization that runs from the one side where liheap is a Corporate Welfare Program but the other side where we shouldnt even have liheap as we should socialize all the cost. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. And its our job to inform legislators, policymakers and the general public where that sweet spot is. The other perception problem that we see, and theyre all kind of wrapped around the same axle if you will is that electric and gas prices over the course of the last i want to say 10 years, maybe a little more, in real dollars its been kind of flat. Theres a little bit up here, a little bit up there generally when you look at all energy out there. Theyve been flat. And im not saying they havent increased, of course theyve moved up but generally its been flat. So when youre dealing with folks that are making the policy, beat a state or federal, the question comes well, why do we have to increase the assistance when in real dollars, were not seeing that . Well, youre not looking at the price of oil. Youre not looking at the price of propane. Youre not looking at the price of wood. So you have that component thats in there. The other, and i think final thing i want to bring up is that weve had as high as mark, check me if im wrong. The High Water Mark for liheap funding was 5 billion or in that neighborhood. 500. Now its down to 3. 6. One of the issues that occurs , and i think you were talking mark about it earlier. No, no, this is good. You have a situation between the coldweather states and the warm weather states. And the warm weather states obviously are saying you know, my taxpayers are paying for this. But im not receiving the benefits and its all gone to the coldweather states and the coldweather states are sitting there saying my taxpayers are paying for this and were not getting as much as how cold we are. To help we cant, we dont want to have a situation where the warm weather states and coldweather states are fighting for the same resources. It doesnt help anybody. So we have to kind of again, this is all messaging versus perception. We have to be on the same team, we have to be on the same Playing Field and here i am sitting up here, im offering more challenges and im giving as far as solutions. And unfortunately, i think thats just the way the pattern is going to go, we have more challenges and we have solutions. Again, at the garden party, right here. So when Economic Times are good. In general, you will see , and im talking about you can call them joe sixpack and sally sought or momandpop or grandma and grandpa, whatever you want to call them its really funny because when the economy is good, then youre looking at all this welfare programs out because nobody needs an economy so good. And then when it back those bad, the same folks are saying i cant afford to pay for somebody else but i can barely put food on my table. Its sort of like theres never a happy medium and this again goes back to what i started with andill and with. In my humble opinion, we have a perception problem with in the, ill use the big term advocacy side. And i think it sometimes hurts our message. Whats the solution to that . Ill let the smart folks at the table figure it out but ill put that out there for discussion. Our next speaker is needham. He, she works for the American Gas Association. Nina as well as Jessica Franks will be speaking after her. It will give you kind of a corporate side, how do utilities think about affordability. Theyre the ones serving low income families, our programs are the ones designed to know provide them with funding to keep families connected so they can give you a perspective of just how do these programs are and how well theyre working from their perspective. My name is mina. He and i will start with a disclaimer that these comments are myown, they dont represent that of our Member Companies. The American Gas Association like mark said presents over 200 natural gas utilities across america. Those utility for about 71 million americans so you can imagine that this is a program that we are passionately in favorof. Liheap comes as a top priority for our Member Companies every year and that is kind of where i come in and partnering with the eei, our role is to make sure that that program is protected in congress and the challenges we face are going to be different than the ones laid out because the challenges we face in the appropriations cycle every year. We have seen a program the zero out in the budget request from the administration for the last four years, three years. Four years and so when that happens, its been jessica and myself. Along with mark and our other grassroots advocates over at National Energy and Utility Affordability Coalition to go up onto the hill and make sure that were taking the information that haly laid out, that mark laid out and were showing our members in congress is a program that needs to be protected and not only protected but there needs to be robust finance for it. Its always going to be a hurdle when youre talking about numbers. Its the most sensitive topic , that you have cross this session and its hard to be able to say that this program deserves more than another program but help hardworking americanfamilies , but were able to take the information that we have and show that energy is a necessity. It is a right and you need to be able to pay your utility bill is something that you should never have to be deciding between in your medication or putting food on the table or paying your utility bill and when you friend that way as its hard to be against the program, it comes, the part that comes into play is, can you get and how much can we move the numbers around to make sure that were helping the most americans possible. Its, chris had mentioned the question of why does this money need to be spent and mark laid out all the facts. You have the most vulnerable members of the population in our america who are the ones who are the recipients of the program and that is the reason this money needs to be spent out right and where luckily talking about a topic that brings everybody together. You would rarely have an electric Utility Association and a natural gas Utility Association working sidebyside but i dont go to any meetings about liheap and vice versa and i think that shows that it isnt a partisan issue, this isnt an issue that favors any kind of side and were really just making sure that our members, especially new members coming in are able to see that. Ill keep it short so we can have questions. I everyone, thank you for inviting me. Thank you to the sca for helping me. I appreciate all your help. I would also like to have the disclaimer of my comments are my own, my opinions on my own but i work for the Edison Electric institute represents the investorowned utility and i would say that something that most people dont know about me , that i buy my iphone charges in both i always had a portable charger on me because i hate the feeling of when your phone is about to die. All of a sudden you feel like youre disconnected from the whole world and its coming down on you so i like to keep my phone charged at all times just so im not mildly inconvenienced. But when were talking about liheap recipients were talking about people that are truly the most poor in our society. Who have to decide between whether or not they can pay for their electricity or their medicine is going to keep them alive so im very fortunate to be in this position im in and then i can lobby tell people that truly need it. Along with nina, i work with the national Utility Affordability Coalition. Its so much fun to say. And together we promote liheap on capitol hill. And annually, we host the liheap action day where we bring in liheap recipients, directors, Liheap Program coordinators, all across the country to come in and Lobby Congress because frankly Congress Gets sick of talking to me and nina so they like to talk to people who are recipients of the program, truly on the ground who can give those personal stories and put a face to this problem. So we bring them in and we take them all around the capitol hill. They get their steps in as they walk around and they share. We do. We have to see who can get the most steps. So its really a great event that our Member Companies will help bring everyone in together to talk about and you know, when were in those areas we really do let the people that are on the ground kind of dominate the conversation because these members need to understand the problems from a National Perspective but also from right in their backyard. Thats really where you can get their attention. So just for example, i happen to be from connecticut. And 63 percent of households that are eligible for liheap do not receive it. And in connecticut actually received 78. 7 million in 17 but still couldnt service most people who needed. Of the people who received it, 69. 4 percent were vulnerable populations so 35 percent were over 60, 18 percent were under six three and 33 percent were disabled. These are the people who need assistance area so when we talk about liheap, most of its a block grant. And then theres also emergency funding. So its the storm in some part of the country, you really do have all the people who have been hurt there, helping them take care ofthat too. 49 percent is for heating and 51 percent is split up between cooling, weatherization , improving systems and crisis assistance. And the eligibility is for those that are hundred 50 percent low the federal poverty. This is very, very low. Think about the fact that in 2015 the Federal Reserve said that half of americans cant pay or or hundred dollar emergency cost right now. Its overwhelming how many people need this aid. So what nina and i do is we go to congress and we explain it to them and for the most part, members of congress understand and they listen to the stories and they say okay, this is areal need. This is something that governments is here to do. One of the difficulties with liheap is that its notan entitlement. So it has to be appropriated. When this situation, where caucus is squabbling over some issue and it holds up the government from being funded, liheap is different. If theres a revolution where everything is the same, you would think liheap would be kept the same. Actually not because its one of those fewprograms that actually paid out in front mostly , but theres cr that say if thats the case, we shouldnt dump it all out so liheap suffers under continuing resolutions as well but these are things we tried to explain on the hill every dayto make sure people are thinking about who really needs this health. Thanks. Thank you jessica. Our last speaker is kenley farmer. I thought now that youve heard sort of broad discussions about how the Program Works, funding issues, issues for the people that were serving, it would be helpful to give you perspectives of how does the state program work at the ground level and easy is a good example from my perspective of a program that integrates federal money with state and local funds and just for the record i am speaking for my organization so my comments are on the record. Kenley. Thank you mark, thank you everyone and the usEnergy Association for hosting us today. As mark mentioned on the associate director for the affordability and Efficiency Division of the district of columbia so i am past with managing both of our Liheap Programs as well as our Weatherization Programs and along with a new program type to water affordability. From the district we think of this in terms of utility affordability writ large. While were focusing on energy today were also seeing that water is also a crucial issue for a lot of cities including the district of columbia. Our programs have been designed with the goal towards mitigating utility costs, including those homes with the highest utility needs and the greatest utility burden. As well as the least amount of available resources and we see every day people who are making the decisions that mark is talking about so they are trying to decide how much do i pay towards my electric bill, much do i pay towards my gas bill, water bill, medicine, food,transportation. Its something that is very real to us and so we are dedicated to the effort. And the district of columbia, we receive not only the federal liheap black but since mayor bowsers been in office shes been dedicated to ensuring that we dont have to close our doors. Inprevious years at the federal grant ran out , we would literally closedown our offices , lock the door andwe couldnt assist people. And the last five years weve been able to keep our doors open which i think has been a great benefit to our constituents. And it means that we are now not dealing with as many households who are in the state of crisis for a long time. Which has been i think a great benefit to the city. As a whole. Just to give you a sense in the district, the district recently surpassed about 700,000 residents. About one quarter of those or 27 percent is eligible for liheap assistance. I thinkmost of you may know that liheap assistance , the maximum income level you can go to is 50 percent state Median Income and the districtadheres to that maximum level. And again, in the district you do have to be responsible for a utility bill in some way in order to receive assistance. So in fiscal year 2017, we served about 40 percent of households are eligible to receive benefits. So were meeting the demand but at the same time were trying to balance that with conducting additional outreach and even driving back demand so its definitely a balancing act. Even from a state daytoday level, much less a week to week level. We also try to maximize the amount that we can get towards weatherization so the rule is you can get up to 15 percent of your grant weatherization and we aim to meet full level of funding each year. But again, its a balancing so if youre moving money towards weatherization that could hit your benefits funding level, so were looking at that and again on almost a week to week level. I wanted to mention to, i think mark was especially interested in the Districts Program not only because we dedicate additional local funding towards Energy Assistance but also because we have been trying to create a program that is holistic in many ways so not only the wreck dont assistance like liheap but we have a Utility Discount Program so that have to do with decreasing your rates. Once youre enrolled so there is an electric Utility Discount Program, gas as well as water. That means that now those households have a lower rate on an ongoing basis once theyve been enrolled. The other thing i mentioned is water affordability program. And the district we have another program called solar for all and that has to do with trying the districts Clean Energy Goals so we have aggressive goals including trying to be Carbon Neutral by 2050 but at the same time, having a lens towards equity ensuring were not leaving anybody behind as we climbed towards those climate goals. Solar for all is dedicated to providing the benefits of solar power 200,000 low income households in the district and that income guideline is a little bit higher than the one i mentioned before so were trying to get to and even kind of higher level of potential households. Because we recognize that like a lot of americans, affordability is an issue and housing costs, just general cost in urban areas like these can be higher so we see all these things as tied towards affordability at large. The last one ill mention is the kind of last program mark talked about which is pace. Were trying to use Innovative Financing Solutions for Affordable Housing in the district so again, thats kind as Clean Energy Finance to Energy Efficiency to bring down utility usage. For Affordable Housing properties. So ive been tasked in this role to try to bring all these programs together so that were providing comprehensive solutions to these challenges. As we said, wed like to see this not just his presentation but also as dialogue. Among ourselves and with the audience on the issue of Energy Poverty in the United States. Just to kick it off, ill ask one question to get the discussion going. As i said, about 20 percent of the population, 20 percent of eligible population receives Energy Assistance. Yet we may i think in compelling apartments why its an unsupported need. Why do you think we dont go beyond 20 percent . Why doyou think were stuck at that level and why is the importance of Energy Efficiency . Nina. Why are we stuck . Why politically can we go beyond 20 percent, whats holding us back . Why will congress increase funding . Theres some problem there we cant seem to get across when we make the case. So i think that the problem is, as multiple branches. And i think that the biggest one is like i said earlier, there are so many programs and so many worthy programs need funding that when we are looking at liheap, it already receives a lot more than a lot of other programs. Not to say it doesnt need more, i think it should have 12, 11 billion dollars allocated because thats the only waywe be able to serve all the people that need funding. But i think when youre pushing for these largescale changes, there are going to the other avenues coming and pushing writeback for their program so our approach has been to continue to show the need for it, continue to bring real life stories to the member offices though that they know how this impacts their constituents and i think thats why weve been seeing incremental increases. I think thats going to be the most realistic way to get to where we need to be is all incremental changes because i think politically, there isnt a dam or a republican on the hill who is going to say that it needs to jump to billion, 30 billion because theres so many different interests that are going to be pulling at them and when were looking at the house going for reelection every two years, there are very few members who are in a position where they can take a stance that pushes for one program over another so i think thats the issue that weve run into. Id also like to say that its important to remember that every year, were starting from zero. The president says no more money for liheap so every dollar we get, we are very thankful for you. Other comments . Any questions from the audience, we like to open this up. Questions, we certainly like to hear your questions or comments. Introduce yourself when you see if you could. My name is alex kraut from usta. Two, i guess two questions. The first one is what percentage of utilities have kind of i guess subsidy programs. To support their programs. So adding an extra dollar to my utility bills, to subsidize Liheap Programs and then the second question is how much coordination is there between Liheap Programs and live techprograms to low Income Housing tax credit. Looking to encourage the light tech programs to have more stringent sustainability or energyefficiency measures. Because the little bit that ive looked at, a lot of the poor state seem s stringent or at least stringent efficiency measures in their programs and at least moving forward that seems like a good way to help take care of this problem. Ill jump in for the utility one. Unfortunately i dont know if jessica has an exact percentage of their Member Companies and there are a lot of like municipal, locally run Utility Companies as well. But i will a lot of our companies have their own programs in addition to liheap, they have their programs to make sure that their customers are not at risk of shut off. Off the top of my head, Companies Like atlas in texas, they have a program that like you said, tax on an extra couple of cents on two other customers to help subsidize those low income folks. It really is a team effort for lack of a better word. The utilities are working on it. The assistance from the federal government is absolutely necessary and i know the state has a lot of their own programs as well. In terms of the coordination between liheap, because that is run individually by each state, i think thats a question that is more directed at me, there is no coordination between light tech and liheap, i can say that definitely. They do not coordinate at all. But there is an like text is states will put in stringent Energy Assistance program to win the litech credits which can help reduce the need for Energy Assistance but there are two very separate activities, like tech is tied towardsbuilding construction or innovation where Energy Assistance is tied toward immediate bill. So in a sense, if we thought holistically about how programs go together which we dont in the United States, they tend to think of things separately so we have a separate altair programlike medicaid , a separate food program, snap or a separate Energy Assistance program, but rarely do you see all the programs put together in a holistic box and thinking about it, how does this help the family, how does this help of community. Its really not how we do things in our state, in your see more of an integration of resources. People that more in terms of public and energy. Different types of discussions. Different types of approach. You just answered your own first question. It was why is there not the money there. But in addition from the various other programs. And you know its great. It was a very, kelly brought up the water issue. And this is something you dont think about. If youre in a rural part of the country, you lose your electricity, youve lost your water and sewage. Because youre drawing a from the well. Thats why its even that much more important to rural populations. One of the issues and Energy Assistance and Energy Affordability and Energy Poverty is theres no firm definition like this is it. This is what its like, someone has cancer or heart disease, we know what that is. And medicaid knows how to treat it and theres a formula for paying for it so its black and white. In our case, the numbers depend a lot on where you sit but we thought wed open the door panel, when you think about Energy Assistance and Energy Poverty, how should we find the mark all we have right now is a federal definition but does that definition target funds sufficiently to mark haly have thought a lot about this question so i thought westart with her. Maybe ill have thought about this. The world ive looked at, there are several things that kind of have bothered me in general is i know Energy Poverty all under Energy Access. And Energy Access is a really wide area. It includes reliability, availability, sustainability and other areas and when we Start Talking about Energy Poverty we sometimes get those other areas like well, what if i had money to afford energy but i really have disconnections all the time because i have to live in a rural area, i might be energy poor or yes, i can somewhat afford all my energy but wait a minute, i would like to afford gas because gas is one of the cheapest ones but theres no gas lines in my neighborhood and that is quite a big reality. Theres also no gas line even though that is one of the cheapest ways to heat your house so from that Energy Access point of view, do you really have access if you dont have access to this most Affordable Energy that is out there. Definitely Energy Poverty would have to include all the areas of Energy Access so and if we start following them piece by piece it might end up the same way we look at Global Reports, you have hundred percent Energy Access. In reality, electricity is not the entire Energy Sector alone, theres also cash, fuel, kerosene, propane and other areas the same way. And the other side like i said about Energy Poverty, Energy Poverty will return to this life discussion on Energy Access and affordability momentarily. The senate is about to dabble in for a pro forma session. The chamber has been coming in every three business days. Legislative work is expected to resume on monday, september 9. Now live to the senate floor on cspan2. Issued so, how to make sure all the things that are so people are whatever we do people dont end up in court because they only have so much disposable income to spend. Anybody else . I can add to that. In terms of a comprehensive viewpoint, i think thats something we have been very focused on in the district and especially in terms of something that was mentioned by garth portable chargers and how energy now is related to access to information. Something we have been looking at and there is a new Affordable Housing property where we install the largest installation in the district tradeoff and includes a battery backup storage for a Community Room so there is a refrigerator that can be powered for medicine. There are places people can charge their phones because we now live in a modern society where information to elegy is just a part of daytoday life. I think we see not only just access to energy within your home but in the event of a storm for some emergency event where you are disconnected from Energy Despite your ability to pay for it those of us with more resources are able to find somewhere to go to obtain what we need were as many people do not have the same access to resources for their phones, for medicines and other things i cat. I think we are also trying to tie this idea of Energy Poverty in with resilience which i know is a word that gets overused a lot but i think in this in terms of particularly like a poststorm or postemergency event. Getting back to your main question i dont think its sufficient. I think like chris is saying there are factors in Rural Communities that you wouldnt face an urban setting and i think the federal definition oversimplifies the issue and it makes it so that there are marginalized populations who are being completely left out of the definition. I would agree and i think that sometimes its just one event that really pushes someone into Energy Poverty. Some in gets sick or they lose their spouse or something happens and maybe holistically that person isnt the poorest of the poor but when they are in that situation they are running out of options and that is where government assistance is very helpful. The other issue related to that is poverty is not evenly distributed across the United States. Some utilities could have 30 or 40 of their rate pays the low income and other utilities where will be 10 so i think the need for Energy Systems are looked at differently depending on what their rate base looks like. We have large numbers of people and theres a limitation with that state can do to raise funds so sometimes when you look at the kinds of partnerships it reflects the Resources Available because Energy Assistance is a fairly straightforward issue. You have the ability to pay. Its not what you do about gangs and Immigration Health care issues and or complicated issues that have many social implications. Energy assistance is fairly straight forward and easy to address in that sense. Jessica d. C. And issue with among your members a different response depending on who with their rate base looks like . And how the Program Works with them . Is there a difference . Not really. I think liheap is a top priority for all of us and actually im going to say that definitively it is because we always check in with their Member Companies and ask them what are their Top Priorities and they come back and they talk about liheap. I think utilities they serve a lot of different people and they kind up, i dont want to say people that they end up being in contact with a lot of people and because of that they can be in a position where they are watching the grounds lets say in certain states with very different but ultimately even if its a very wealthy state we still have a significant poor population and a very poor population so our utilities go home and they see that and they come back and they fight for justice hard. I would agree. Our board of directors releases a list of priorities every single year in liheap is at the top of that in our board is made up of Mutual Companies and its regardless of whether youre in the north or the south. Its extremely important for all of our Utility Companies and i also think when you are looking at Southern States which oftentimes have higher poverty levels then northern states the issue is just different. Guess you have a higher percentage who are eligible for it but the eligibility level in terms of the dollar amount is less per person versus the northern states were as cold most of the time. Chris do you see any difference among Public Service commissions . He were saying earlier they have a wide range of responsibilities how does Energy Assistance fit within those concerns . You can watch with a onesizefitsall on that one, mark. I think its as diverse and of urgent as the states are themselves and the population. As i said earlier you know you dont think that there is much difference between my folks and congress or state legislators or even the population in general. Some take the view that we have to make it as easy to get the aid not only get the money and to get the money out so there are some that would look at socializing and then on the other side of the spectrum there are some that would say we already have to much. So i dont think i can give you a singular answer. Many states have been varied proactive in their programs with the utilities. Maybe im just too old for myself here but i remember when the Roundup Program was first coming out in pennsylvania. Its where you roundup as it was mentioned out here you roundup your bills, with 102. 60 or 103, whatever. A lot of times my folks are in the position where they have to be reactive as opposed to act if wind there utility comes up whether its a pilot or an idea on how to do this. The commission looks at it and they try to determine whether or not it goes into the rate base. So its really hard to give a singular answer. I think it reflects diversely whats going to work in new jersey is not necessarily whats going to work in new mexico. I think we have a question over here. Hello. I work for the american counsel for energy. The panel is speaking about how to address Energy Poverty and focuses on liheap is the main way of doing that but im wondering if any of you have thoughts on some of these more Holistic Solutions that mark has alluded to. Kristin can like both mentioned Energy Efficiency is a way to achieve longterm ability for individual so id love to hear any thoughts you have on ways the bill system can be combined with other programs or more Holistic Solutions. Boy, if i have the answer. Part of liheap is set aside for weatherization making homes more efficient and done in its own appropriation. Thats one of the big priorities for the Energy Subcommittee and energy commerce. Ultimately what is happening is that the poor have systems that are more likely to break down so addressing that will kind of hopefully put everybody on the same starting point so that we can move forward. Jessica makes a really good point. This may sound like a stupid example but i can tell you from Life Experience in my younger days you have a situation where a low income family or an elderly individual, their refrigerator breaks. They have a lot invested in that chain. Not in the machine itself but whats inside it with their food. Chances are they are not going out and buying the most efficient refrigerator. They are getting the one that there that day that they can afford. The cant afford so i mean how do you wrap those in the same program . I dont you can under the specific acts. Should we be able to . Yeah but. I think the Weatherization Program posted on the state level. I think you do a good job of turning to being proactive about the situation rather than having it e. Once the persons refrigerator breaks down they are going in and assessing lowincome customers and seeing what they can do and what they can invested in their homes now to prevent any sort of issue from happening. I think and i dont speak for everybody but Energy Efficiency, most everybody in the utility sector and Environmental Advocacy community, it would only benefit lowerincome communities as well because you have a lower bill all around. Like mark said liheap is being pay your bills whether there is Energy Efficiency in those topics are more along those lines. I i can at one point to that. For example and district of the houses that we serve our renters and 75 of the households we serve live in multifamily buildings. You are looking at in order to solve those problems we really have to address the multifamily rental sector which is challenging. The other piece of this as we try to be holistic and are her perch i mention the solar for all program to discolor for all allows for the installation of large scales Community Renewable Energy Facilities and credits energy from most large scale solar installations can be applied to lowincome households in energy bills but you were not truly maximizing efforts if you arent accounting for Energy Efficiency. We are definitely focused, laser focused on trying to align those three things in particular. Direct assistance Energy Efficiency and the addition of clean energy resources. [inaudible] now that this time but what we are doing is we are trying to take all of those homes would have received solar power and feed them through our Weatherization Program so thats how it is working right now. We are trying to make sure that all three of those programs are talking to each other. One is the amount of money available is not enough. We survey every few years family Energy Assistance. We did a survey and we had 5 billion. About 10 of the recipients said their furnace was broke and. When we surveyed recipients last year we had 1. 5 billion left. The number of people reporting broken or furnaces that needed repair replacement had doubled so what it showed was they were making tough choices with funding and one thing that is gone is the ability to replace them. So again part of the issue is resources. Efficiency of course is extremely important and we spent 10 or 350 million a year on efficiency. We can spend a lot more, theres no question. Yes. Thanks very much for the comments today. Im with the passive House Institute alliance and we know that the weakened dramatically dramatically reduce the load of buildings by retrofitting or weatherization. The district is looking at putting passive house is one of the standards for future building and solar produces direct current in battery uses direct current. In the appliance with electronic uses direct current but we have got to go through this conversion so if we add an energyefficient envelope and direct current we dramatically reduce the load of each house. If we think in terms of a city block with a direct microgrid that could aggregate all those houses then we have really got something thats make sure they grid impacts this. Thats a longterm thing. I dont know how many presentations have been in last 10 years here in d. C. On this issue. Is anybody taking a clean slate approach in looking at it ballistically on how we can move forward say 10 years down the track . I would say there is an appropriation under the department of energy for Building Technology and for residential and commercial buildings and making them more Energy Efficient. One of the things that the government is able to do with the partnerships and universities is you invest in the brightest around the country to come up with the technologies that are going to make things more efficient and better for everyone overall. Thats something that is supported because her companies dont take customer dollars and spend it on things that may or may not work but when the government partners with universities and say okay how do we get this going and how can we make this better thats something that we do on an annual basis. Im not sure if the National Labs have a clean slate or not. Just from the district perspective we had a coalition of local leaders who went to belgium to study the standard so i think we are always trying to seek out all potential solutions the d. C. Current issue is one of my personal favorite so i would love to see more activity in that regard. As the district we are always trying to drive towards the best solution. Im not sure this is directly on point but as a philosophy come the kids philosophy keep it simple, stupid, and me being the stupid one. If you look at what is using the energy in a low income house, and this is in no order, furnaces, airconditioning, hot water and keeping your food cold. Focus on those four points. They say keep it simple. The National Association of appliance manufactures sees no directory. Therefore billion people in the world that either have no electricity or no electricity connection. Still cooking with fossil fuels with no internet access. Thats 4 billion. There are 380 million in this country. The u. S. Could pull its poetry sources together and its a huge market out there that would not only impact them but retroactively impact this. The other thing thats not being talked about is the vulnerability of the grid to attack. We need to break it up soon. That should also be part of the discussion. It certainly is. Under d. O. E. They have offices that are dedicated to making sure the its the top priority for utilities. We can only imagine what would happen if the grid was not secure so that the top priority. Its just not being talked about. I think a lot of that has to do with again everything revolves around money and where something is coming from. When youre looking at a program like liheap its coming out of the justice appropriations bill so we are not looking at it in the same way that they are looking at their funding. There is a different coordination going on but i think they face a lot of different issues. Thank you so much. I am with the United States Energy Association and i work on Rural Electrification all around the world but primarily in africa. Many of those governments, those utilities are looking at decentralized electricity because they dont have the funds to build the whole grid system. Home systems and that sort of thing so are we looking at Energy Poverty in america too much in the lands of the traditional utility model instead of alternative solutions and developing similar to the work we are doing in developing countries. Alternative solutions. Home systems providing the means instead of just Energy Efficiency, providing the means for these homes dont necessarily need to be linked up to the utility and the connected to the grid to pay those bills so that would mean they would have to find a way to provide them with electricity. I think kenley farmer was speaking on that and Energy Storage solutions. Who would like to go first . I think when youre looking at a population of people who are at risk of having their service cut off you are not looking at people who are necessarily in a position where they built their home so they were able to make the decision to have their home being entirely on solar panels and when youre looking at affordability of energy the more Traditional Energy resources are going to be the ones that are the most affordable for folks. I think thats just not a conversation that a family who is a liheap recipient is going to be having when they are trying to decide whether they are able to pay their bill or not. Maybe we can turn off and not be connected to any utility in that would help solve our problem. I think a little bit more like a separate issue and looks more at when new developments are being built. Can these houses be billed for solar and not necessarily need to be connected to utility line . It may not be a conversation that is even in the realm of the same conversations as they are having when they are trying to decide whether to pay their utility bill or buy groceries. In the district we do a lot of direct installations for households but typical houses of federal style rowhouse. Campy enough panels on the house to fully power the home so then in terms of reliability for that home it needs to be connected to the grid. That is ensuring that everyone in the household has access to power at all times. Thats more specific to an urban environment but i think in terms of what we are discussing about Energy Poverty we would not want to pursue the kind of policy where people would at a certain point in time due to the weather have not asked not have access to power. Thats what we do in general. Even if the household has a way to get energy from a solar farm or anywhere else it still keeps them connected to the grid to try to help them just in case. Because that seems to be more reliable than at this moment at least the Technological Developments have been gotten so far to catch up with it. There was an interesting article in this mornings express on Energy Access in a talked about how the Navajo Nation has a sewage problem with people who are not connected to the grid at all. I was wondering if anybody has any feeling or has looked into in this country how many people do not have Energy Access or not connected to the grid or in your individual states or industrys . Thats exactly my point. Does the United States have 100 Energy Access because i dont think we do. Part of the reason is we really dont collect that data and very likely what we also dont do is probably typing to find out if you all areas get electricity. There are people who take a more expensive fuel choice like propane or kerosene. Going back to Energy Access in the previous comment something important i wanted to mention was when we are talking about Energy Efficiency utilities and fuel vendors are doing a good job about Energy Efficiency. We have had we have, really long way but i think we sometimes dont think about how the Energy Efficiency materializes in the reporting world. For example we only look at how much quantity for households using an energy and we are thinking while the household is using 2000 or 3000kilowatt hours annually it must be really efficient household and we totally ignore the fact that the house is not Energy Efficient and even though they get good reports, your Energy Efficiency is the best in the neighborhood, actually they cannot afford the energy. What those indicators really mean so thats why the focus is important when we do those strategies so all the stakeholders will understand the other side how to indicators realized the real world. Sully a question in the back. Hi. Im with the United States Energy Association. Our Central Mission is to increase Energy Access around the world so kudos to the entire panel for bringing this to light this question is probably better suited to jessa coal or nina. Have you guys change anything on the hill are structured are common to the contents of Climate Change to a lawmaker . I havent. I have not either. The Simple Reasoning being that Climate Change is a very controversial topic and we are trying to convince every member that they need to be in favor of this program and they need to protect it. In terms of our advocacy efforts its not worth it to bring in that topic. It also doesnt necessarily have a lot to do with making sure that every american has access to energy. I think its definitely a tangential issue. The avenue i normally take is highlighting how many people in her district are eligible, how many of their people in their districts are not receiving funds and the choices they are having to make in their daytoday lives. I also would think that somebody receiving a liheap funds and somebody having to make the choice between paying their utility bill or buying groceries is also not necessarily thinking about Climate Change is the number one issue that they are worried about. They are thinking about can i put food on the table for my kids and negative 25 degrees fahrenheit outside so its just on the topic comes up. We dont specifically address Climate Change but we are concerned about weather conditions becoming hotter. We are seeing cooling in the midwest now and the northeast than in the past and their basic approach as Congress Considers adaptation bills for lack of a better phrase, green for all of those kinds of things that Energy System should be included because as we go forward its the least able to adapt to hotter temperatures. Its not just a problem for the United States. Other countries in the same situation but we want to make the point that Climate Change, Climate Change adaptation should include provisions to help low income families adapt whether to installing the cooling system in their home, having more Funds Available to pay for cooling is a very row problem. We dont have a tenyear perspective. Its very important to start thinking about that especially as congress and even my guess is nothing is going to go anywhere this year Congress Considers strategy. We want them to think about how to at least adapt. Thank you. Jim morrison with arra electric corporate spray the high cost of delivered fuels has come up a couple of times. His conversion from delivered fuels do i efficient electric appliances and equipment part of the conversation here . Any comments from the group . It should be. There you go. It is part of the conversation. You have some states that focus on conversion but liheap funds cannot be used for conversion. We focus on High Efficiency Energy starts on appliances. Installation is overall effort to help increase the efficiency of homes and the need for assistance. We have time i think for one last question. Yes, sir. There was a comment about infrastructure. He thought about how you can include your issue is part of the infrastructure . Our funds cannot. Whether funds cannot be used for new construction. Thats part of the law but again in terms of infrastructure for Affordable Housing the most efficient construction can make a difference in terms of what drives the need for assistance. Any comments from our panel . Even though our liheap funds cannot be used for those kinds of things often we do working Group Cooperation with other programs like Healthy Homes and help with weatherization and making homes efficient but thats more the quality of the wellbeing for the household from the public point of view. Healthy homes is mostly the one that helps them and others better dwellings. Im like to thank our panelists. [applause] mark thank you very much for organizing this session on this very important topic. As i said at the beginning this is a new conversation for the United States Energy Association but its a conversation we very much want to be a part of and we look or to helping continue the conversation and helping to cast a little bit of light on the challenges and issues that we all face. As an industry we are very proud of the fact that we think we have been keeping bills low and a one of our recent meetings it was commented that the average home is paying 1100 less for all energy, not just natural gas and electricity but gasoline and other derivative products and we are very proud of prices being moderate. What the average prices are doesnt mean much of the campaign your bill. Again mark thank you for writing this. Let me thank each of the panelists for participating and lets continue the conversation conversation. If you would join me one last time and think in our panelists and mark. [applause] thank you very much and we are adjourned. Thank you for coming. 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