In the back of the room we have events news letter, stay on top of everything that we have in the store, also we are pleased to have cspan book tv in the house tonight. There will be time for a q a afterwards, but if you want to ask a question, please let us come to you with the microphone so you can be heard here in the store as well as those watching at home. Its my pleasure to introduce our guest for the evening, david kushner. [applause] are here tonight to honor and discuss david kushners latest book, genius man in history of internets rise, the players ball is a deep, deep dive into a lawsuit that defines internet, let me try to set up the basic story for you and give you a sense of how fascinating and unbelievable it is, in 1994 when gary founded the internet dating site match. Com anyone could register, domain name, despite sending certified letter to government contractor, so he had register not only match. Com for date site but sex. Com, but its all it took to register domain name, so at the same time trying to get match. Com off the ground, the con man of the title was struggling run his Online Internet bullet and Board Service for swingers called French Connection from the jail cell where hes doing 3 years for impersonating a lawyer. [laughter] after release he was forged back to reregister under his own name, cohen had turned sex. Com into absolute power house bringing in like 500 grand a month. It was unclear whether domain name was even property or steal one and the players ball is a tale that reconstructs every dirty trick and deposition on the characters vendetta, tried repeatedly to ruin each others life as they fought ownership of the most valuable domain in the world, sex. Com, please welcome david kushner. [applause] thank you, what a wonderful summary of the book that made it sound fun. Well, thank you for coming tonight on the rainy night and here celebrating the publication of Howard Sterns book which is out today, im very excited. I love in the area, i taught at princeton so to have everybody here tonight is fantastic. I want to thank labyrinth books and thanks cspan for covering this, and the players ball, i have spent about 20 years covering among other things the rise of the internet and sort of what i call digital culture, and ive written books about game makers, hackers, cyber crime and you name it, but ive always for about 10 years i wanted to write a book about what i considered to be the wild west days of the internet and these were the days in the early 90s when there really were no rules and there were, the internet was ruled by a lot of outlaws and rebels and innovators and, you know, they were figuring out how this would work not only as as means of communication but also as business, how can you make money with this machine . And its become sort of cliche that we think of the adult industry as being a reason that the internet made money early on. I feel like the story hadnt really been told and i thought specifically the story of how love and sex fuels the rise of the internet hadnt been told and took me years to find the story, when youre writing a 300odd page book you need characters and you need some drama to keep it going and i was looking and looking and eventually came across gary kremen and i thought i would start out tonight by reading you a little bit from the introduction about what gary kremen did and how he ended first getting involved with the man who became his nemesis steven khan, im going the read to you a couple of quotes from the beginning of the book. Live in fragments no longer. Only connect and the beast and the monk robbed of isolation thats life to either will die, singing, the internet is really, really great, monster, for porn, gary kremen is the father of Online Dating. In 1993 he founded what was essentially the first and now biggest site match. Com, despite with only 5 of americans being online around that time, kremen told a skeptical tv reporter in 1995 that his invention was going to change the world, match. Com will bring more love to the planet than anything since jesus christ, 31yearold declared in his tone chicago accent. The fact that this prediction was coming from some in stained tidedye tshirt, but his hunch was right, match. Com became an international phenomena spread to go more than 25 countries and 8 languages with more than 42 million members and becoming the basis of todays 2 billiondollar Online Dating industry. Anybody here date online . Who wants to admit it . The Company Started with 2,500dollar credit card loan, now has a value of 3. 5 billion. At a time when most Business People barely understood let alone paid attention to the internet, kremen among the first to figure out how to make money online. Even more radically, he transformed the way people meet and marry in digital age as he also once said, im responsible for over 1 million babies. [laughter] but according to to his distracters he was responsible for much that was wrong with the internet too. The genius of love was also the sultan of sex specifically sex. Com, one of the most notorious websites ever online and it was his epic battle over sex. Com that made him most legendary of all. It started in early 90s, before he pioneered Online Dating, vision another new frontier, he saw domain name, dot coms and others that signified ownership online one day would have value because domains were deem worthless at the time they were essentially free to register, so jobs. Com, housing. Com, autos. Com, match. Com and the like to later monetize. It was the online equivalent of coming to america and staking claims across the country. He had no intention of becoming a porn grapher, in 1995 he registered sex. Com too thinking it could become a health and wellness education site. [laughter] someone named Steven Michael cohen had stolen web domain earning millions of dollars a year. Kremen wanted the site back and we wanted to get the money cohen had earned through stealing it. What followed was an epic rivalry that established many of the rules that enable online commerce today. As kremen. Lauren said sets precedent that property that can be stolen, on one side was kremen, devoted father of 2, epitomized the entrepreneurial spirit of Silicon Valley in quest to bring love and on the other side evil genius twin, 48yearold convicted flown from los angeles, as con man, cohen was among the best, he impersonated judges and lawyers, ran Swingers Clubs and scanned investors after promising to build fantasy island of sex outside las vegas. Kremen insisted that despite cohen insisted that despite kremens claims he was the real originator of internet dating and Rightful Owner of sex. Com right before kremen came on the scene. He says he invented online sex, thats the most ridiculous thing cohen said, i started everything, i invented that. The Los Angeles Times called cohen one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the internet age. The battle of cohen and kremen became personal, ran from the board rooms of Silicon Valley to bordelos in mexico. There was even a gunfight on the streets of tijuana according to cohen at least. But there was more than fame and fortune at stake, the war for sex. Com represents, overlooked chapter behind one of the greatest inventions of our time, the internet n. The public imagination the computer revolution is two main stories, the rise of apple and personal computing in 1980s and facebook, social media in the 2000s, in between those years is a lost era of innovation thats crucial to understanding the evolving world of today and tomorrow. The internet gold rush of the 1990s, american frontier of the 1800s, early settlers of net fought to make their claim and established millions, none of this would have been possible without the fuel that made the internet what it is today. Love and sex, so the over the years writing for magazines, new yorker, ive really enjoyed the opportunity to meet the innovators very really on in their careers, you know, whether it was creators of the first person, Mark Zuckerberg in 2005 when he was just starting facebook out of his apartment, one thing that ive observed is a threat between all of them and what it is is that they are filling a personal need first and by doing so they are tapping into a universal need and not everybody achieves that, but zoom, one of the first games, lots of blood and at the time people who made it were tired of the video games that were popular, they enjoyed mario and they enjoyed the idea of plumbers and mushrooms and gold stars but they wanted to make a game that was more like movie alien, evil death, like that, and they found a massive audience for it. Facebook, you know the story, not a directory, Mark Zuckerberg, said, well, i can make a better one than they have online, the youtube creators started out at dinner party where they had wanted to share videos that they had shot of them eating speghty spaghetti and this is a way to share videos online and on and on and with Online Dating it was very similar, gary kremen wanted a better way to date. This is how it started. Again, what you see is that it is all starting with a very simple idea why something exists somebody either had skills for creating itself or getting people to create for them. Let me tell you about gary kremen, ended up in stanford getting an mba, he did not fit the mold, he had an internship at goldman sachs, actually did not know how to tie a tie, he had never done it. This is a very different time in Silicon Valley, it was more conservative, its not like jeans and sandals that you might think of today. Goldman sachs paid him to leave the internship, they just said, this isnt working out, you can go. So he went back to stanford and he started a company that was basically selling software through disk and mail and nothing, software that you can find online and packaging it and this is when he stumbled upon the idea, the companys name was los Altos Technology and his partner was his friend, the idea had come as they often do by seeing something new and realizing what he could do with it, it came one day when he was in his Office Taking orders for los Altos Technology. At first many of the orders came in over fax, but they also began taking them in platform of email still relatively uncommon given that in 1992 only 23 of u. S. Households had computers. As the emails began coming in, kremen felt naturally curious about the people on the other end particularly when he got an order from a woman, do you think shes cute he asked dubin, what does that have to do asked dubin. Look, dubin said it was a 500dollar purchase this is good, kremen went on but do you this one is cute . And there was a new way he could find out, the year before computer scientists dr. Nathaniel wanted to come up with a way to email pictures of his grandchildren to family and friends but this was not yet possible, so he went about creating email format called the multipurpose internet extensions which allows someone to attach a file to email message. Earlier that year on march 11th, 1992 he sent the first one, photograph of barbershop who called themselves telephone cords along with audio of them singing harmonic tune, let me send you emails to the tune of let me call you sweetheart and thanks to the internet i actually have it. [music] okay. Innovation often follows a similar path, someone fills a personal need that also meets a universal need, email attachments would be just that, as kremen and other pioneers knew this was a huge deal, email equivalent of Alexander Graham bells message, i want to see you, the world is going to change with this kremen thought. People could do than just trade pictures of gran kids, they could trade pictures of each other and we wanted to know what this mysterious looked like on the other end of the internet, all he had to do go to coffee shop, scan picture and put it on the computer and attach it as file to him. I wonder if i can convince her to find the closest kinkos and scan a picture of herself h. It was a problem that needed to be filled, and he knew this from firsthand experience. Like a lot of young people, dating had always been a challenge. He had met and connected with his share of women but nebraska found his perfect never found his perfect match. Stop eating at dinner just bacon, he told him. [laughter] dont pretend that swallowing a shot of scope for breakfast constitutes morning hygiene. Oh, and the next time you go on a date, make sure your stained tshirt isnt inside if out. But he had a different tack. He wanted to find someone who would accept him. And so, like a lot of people, he tried personals, spending a couple hundred dollars a month on taking out ads in the San Francisco papers and using the 900 party lines, number party lines. He approached it creatively such as taking out an ad with his friend simon, a corporate therapytist who helped companies therapy theist who helped Companies Make decision. He was also looking for love. Since he was gay, he thought it was a stroke of marketing genius because it would, as he put it, take the edge off meeting a total stranger. Beith are successful entrepreneurs, enjoy musics food, hiking and are in touch with their feelings. [laughter] even better, the plan worked. They had several dates, dates that had a built hundred buffer that made them all the builtin buffer that made them fun, but no matter how clever, personal ads had problems of their own. With classified there was no way of knowing what the person actually looked like. Plus, the profiles are so small, limited in scope. With this new technology though, he realized there could be a way to change all that. People could also write their own personalized profiles and include them along with their photos. He could harness the internet for human relationships in a way that no one had done before. He could build a business from a new frontier of dating online. This is insane, he thought. This is bigger than the vacuum cleaner. And, of course, if he built it, then he could use it too. As his friend phil put it, that became part of the mythology, the guy who couldnt get a date invented this love machine. And cremen hoped with all his heart this machine would finally help him to meet his match. People dont realize that match. Com and Online Dating started we mail. It did not start on the web, it was before the web. It started as an email service. But it was fortuitous the, because the web happened right on the heels of this, and we now have this massive culture and industry. The match that gary cremen ended up meeting was not who he expected. His match ended up being a lifelong con man, our friend steven cohen. Before there was the web, there were Bulletin Board systems. Does anybody remember Bulletin Board systems . So you would dial up, and it was just text over a mow if dem, and modem, and it was for hobbyists who were interested in star trek or the grateful dead. And this is where steven cohen had gotten his start. And while he was running a Swingers Club in Orange County and in between getting busted, he decided to try to do something for them on a bbs. So this is a little bit on him. Since he was a kid, cohen had always been something of a geek, tinkering with gadgets and take Computer Programming courses at colleges. He was among the early phone freaks. Hobbyists who circumvented the Telecommunications System to get free Long Distance calling among other things. Is so he wasnt, by his own accounts, much of a programmer. He had a hacker mindset that he could in that he could see where and how to exploit new systems to his advantage. And so when he read are about this new innovation of bulletin the board systems, he had just the idea to cash in. By launching a love society if the summer of 1979, he called it the French Connection bds. While most, in knot all, of if not all, were devoted to the conversation of early adopting hobbyists, computer nerds, grateful dead fans, scifi geeks, cohen had a distinctly forprofit model. He would charge 18 a month for subscription which would give members access to leave messages for each other on a variety of sexual and special interest boards, 9 for guys locker room. It didnt discriminate between straight, gay or anywhere else on the spectrum as long as a customer paid for the chance to get online, that was fine by him. Cohen created the bbs with the help of some freelance programmers and ran it from a computer net beside room inside a home hed bought in Orange County. He relied on word of mouth, posting messages on competing bbs. Once again, he faced the same challenges he had before which was getting women to entice the men. So he offered Free Membership to women and more expediently, he logged on under assumed feel names. Female names. He would sit there and type in different names and be different people, always women, his exwife recalled. Always women. He would secretly pose as tammy, one of the system operators. The title for someone who ran a bb s. Or even his exwife herself would leave messages for guys and communicate to them new customer service. He began taking local Computer Programming colleges where he gave speeches and to recruit new members including his professor. Slowly but surely the French Connection acquired members and curiosity seekers. Tammy would flirt with them and take their credit card numberses or checks which cohen would have sent to a variety of post office boxes. When he needed a name for the company, he made a nod to his mother as if this were all about proving her wrong. His mother used to say to him youre never going to amount to anything. Ynata, youll never amount to anything. As cohen explained, were going to build something that would prove to world we werent losers. Despite his outlaw ways, cohen amounted to something he is to haveically significant as a result of the French Connection. He not only pioneered Online Dating, he had figured out something that would have huge significance in the decades to come, how to get people to spend money online. The answer was simple, as he told his wife when she asked why everything he did seemed to have to do with sex. Sex sells, he told her. So this was in 1979, a long time ago. And when i found that out, i said, gary, i dont know that youre really the inventer of Online Dating. It sounds like steven cohen might have been ahead of the curve on that. Gary kind of begrudgingly admitted that. By the mid 90s, the only people really making money online was the adult industry. Steven cohen had stolen it and was, one might say, you know, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the early internet. At the same time, it was driving innovation, and i get into that in the book about how it was the reason you needed bandwidth to get online faster, the reason you needed a video card, all of these really key parts of what became the internet started for two reasons, video games and pornography. This was the reason that you needed that software and hardware. And companies, even though they didnt like to anytime it, were making admit it, were making money hand over its because they had had a stake in this. Time warner, hilton, at t. There was an at t the representative who told the New York Times anonymously this is the crazy aunt in the attic. Everyone knows her, but nobody wants to talk about it. So gary then had the personal mission to get this site back, to go after steven. He ends up getting a judgment, which is the precedentsetting judgment about property online. He got the site and he also got a judgment for 60 million. So here he is, young guy running the most successful, one of the most successful sites on the internet. He didnt want to be a pornographer, but loafs a business but he was a businessman, why not try that out. He started making money, but he cant get this guy out of his head. But steven cohen conveniently fled toty wan that. Tijuana. So somebody earlier was talking about the crazy twists and turns of in the story, and ill share one of them with you in the reporting. Reporting a book or article is just an adventure in and of itself because you stumble upon things that you never anticipate thed. There were so many of those moments, and one of them happened when gary cremen had a copy of Steven Cohens hard drive which he got through discovery. And i was visiting gary whos now in palo alto, and gary said do you want his hard drive. And, you know, im a big research nerd, of course. So i took it home, and im looking through the files, and theres weird, you know, strange things that you would expect on there. He was writing essays for sex. Com, he was creating his own coat of arms for his family [laughter] you know, there were photographs of him. Hes sort of if you picture, like steve corell in the early 80s, and there were pictures of shrimp. There were pictures of shrimp on ice, there was shrimp in a bag, there was information on raising shrimp, Technical Information on shrimp. And i, naturally, called gary cremen, and i said, hey, whats up with the shrimp . [laughter] and gary said, ah, you found the cam row nas, which is spanish for shrimp. So what happened was through the course of discovery they found that steven cohen was hiding money in all kinds of places including a shrimp farm in northern mexico in the middle of cartel country. This is 100 true. [laughter] so gary hired a private detective to find can cohens money because, oh, my gosh, where is this trail leading. And at one point he gets a call from his private eye who says i have a set of keys for you. If the last little part im going to read here is what happens when he gets these keys. Is so finally, gary got the keys to cohens mansion in rancho santa fe, which is one of the most exclusive communities in the country. Its by sand day owe. San diego. Cremen drove down from San Francisco alone. By time he got there, night had fallen, and with no street lamps, he found himself lost. Tired and weary, he shut his eyes until the sun came up. When it did, it was speck tack already. The Golden Orange hues spilling over the trees, the smell of lemons and eucalyptus in the air. Cremen continued on his way with the help of his map until he saw it, his new home. He could hardly believe it as he parked in front of the threecar garage and walked along the stones to larged wooden door. He could see the tennis court in the back, the kidneyshaped pool. The moment he unlocked the door and stepped onto the mexican tiled floor of the large antique the foyer, he felt his eyes search the room and his brain struggle to process the incoming data. The 10,000squarefoot 10 million mansion had been trashed. The room was gutted. Electrical sockets ripped from the wall, ceiling fans gone, wires hanging from the walls. The more wreckage he registers, door handles ripped out, ceiling lights gone. So too the cabinets, shower doors and more. The shelving looked like it had been pulled out by king kong. The bathroom sinks were stripped down to piping, toy heads gone. Then cremen felt something underfoot, the quicker of water squish of water on the foot. The breeze was coming from the open windows and doors, the screens gone. The rain had come in. Tiny black turds of fourlegged visits poppy seeding the time. He ran outside to find the lemon and eucalyptus trees pulled out of the soil, the potted plants overturned, the sprinklers ripped out of the lawn. Even the tennis net gone. The only furniture left outside was in broken pieces floating in the pool. As he stood there alone in his trashed new palace, there was only one word pounding in his head cohen. It was the first time the he felt more than anger, he felt fear. Maybe it was the drugs, maybe it was the ransacked home, but the first moment he could, cremen went online and bought himself a gun. Thank you. Ms. [applause] theres more that happens. [laughter] but we can take some questions. Yeah. Ill come to you. Back here. Right in the back. Hello. I guess my question is what was the most unexpected maybe little tale or tidbit of information that you stumbled upon that you were like i did not think this book would lead me down this path. Well, that is a great question. The shrimp farms hard to beat. Although this was another one which was that cohen was an evil genius. In fact, he still is. Hes alive and he lives in tijuana. Hes running pharmacies that are selling counterfeit viagra for bitcoin. [laughter] so hes innovating. But he was always work on all kind you know, he and gary were very similar. They were both ahead of their time, they saw a what technology could do, and they were serial entrepreneurs. Cohen saw an opportunity in mexico, and the opportunity was to bring the internet to mexico in a way that was more economical and official. Problem was he couldnt do it. He didnt have a license to go down to mexico and do this. So what did he do . Well, what he did was he went down to border of mexico and sannie city sid row, and he saw that there was a tiny piece of land on a hill. And i went to this spot of land. It is probably the most southern dwelling on that but certainly is on that border. There was a shack there. And what he did was to get the shack through some questionable means, and then he outfitted it with satellite dishes, computer equipment and essentially began illegally beaming Internet Access [laughter] over the border into mexico and making a great deal of money. And underselling everybody. And so this was and i went to this place. Gary ended up getting that shack. He ended up running it. And gary and i, in the end of the book i talk about i went with him down toty wan a that to try to find steven cocohen who supposedly has dinner at the same tgi fridays every week. Or hes at costco getting hot dogs for lunch. Anyway, we made our way could dn there, we saw the shack which is still there and may or may not be operating this internet service. Thank you. Yeah. Just one second. Wait for the microphone. So where are these two men today . So where are the two men today, ill answer that with a little anecdote which was i had, as i said, had this idea for about ten years, but i had no characters. I met with my longtime Editor Publisher who said, you know, nows a good time the, you should not give up on this idea. But what you need is a protagonist who iterates. So my publisher, jonathan karp, had done the book on steve jobs. And what he told me was the reason that that book is what it is, the reason why that story is what it is is because steve jobs created apple but then left. And then he goes to pixar and he comes back. So theres iteration. Gary cremen, the reason i chose him is because of what hes doing now which is that after all of this, getting out of this sort of story selling sex. Com for what was at the time the most money paid for a domain, it was 13, 15 million in 2003, he has now gotten into politics in Silicon Valley,ing and hes the head of the water board in palo alto. Hes still a intend newark he has all kinds of businesses, but he is a water guy. And when i asked him about how, whats the connection between love, sex and water, he said the hierarchy of needs. [laughter] and he said thats every business hes ever done is based on that idea. Steven cohen is, as i said, somewhere inty wan. That yeah. In tijuana. And he still owes gary now what would be over 100 million. [inaudible] uhhuh. Was that garys that was Steven Cohens mansion that was awarded to gary, and stevenned had hired goons to trash it when he found out that gary cohen was coming to claim it. So this it was this crazy rival. Yeah. So the two men have met face to face . Have there been confrontation . Thats a great question. Not only did they meet face to face, they began like i said, they were, id never done a story like this where two people are so hateful of each other, and theyre so such rivals but yet theres this incredible respect. The only thing i could compare it to was there was a documentary about was it conners or mcenroe borg. Yeah. And it was basically about how borg, and they had this rivalry, and they hate each other but they loved each other because they brought out the best. This is exactly like that. Not only did they meet at depositions and so on, they called each other. And they began speaking for hours at a time. Ive heard these tapes. And at one second theyll steven cohen will be saying to gary, you know thats my site, i invented sex on the internet, its not yours, you stole it from me, and he was like, what are you going to do it with anyway . Im not going to do banner ads. What are you, crazy . Thats how i made and then the they would exchange notes, tell each other to foff and hang up. [laughter] is it was a crazy they were both bright, they needed each other, and they kind of loved, had this love hate thing going. So it was really bizarre. Hang on one sec. Yeah. So in doing the research for your book, you met successfully with gary by the way, can i just thank my wife for allowing know research this for ten years . [laughter] [applause] you know, honey, i have to go to an online Forum Convention in vegas. [laughter] you know, sometimes whatever it takes. Yeah. But you met extensively with gary or at least had conversations yeah. But never with steve . I did. I did talk with steve. You did talk with steve . Yeah. Okay. So, you know, steven cohen so this is from both of their perspectives. Yes. Its from both of their perspectives. And steven cohen, just to answer that, yes, with anything i do, im talking to as many people as i can, and any quote in the book is coming from interviews or court transcripts, recordings that they a made. And steven was not eager to talk [laughter] certainly, but, you know, i did get a call from him at about midnight one night, and i figured hell either yell at me and hang up or ill talk to him for hours because ive been down this road enough times to know thats usually how it goes, and we talked for hours. So are you aware of any recent Internet Technology innovations that have come out of the online sex industry now . My research has ended on that. [laughter] yeah. [laughter] you know, i guess what i would say to that, i mean, obviously like Virtual Reality is a big thing in that industry, augmented reality is big. But,ting you know, forget about the content of that business for a minute. You know, theyve been one of the most nimble in terms of inhibits with regard to free content on the internet. I mean, you know, that industry was relying on sales of content which became free online, essential hi. So they started doing things that you could, you couldnt replicate, so live interactions, things of that nature. So they are always ahead of the curve, and thats a good question. I think with v. R. And augmented reality, augmented reality is where its kind of an overlay of computergenerated content that you see with your phone, the world around you, i think that those are two areas where, again, its going to be kind of sex and gaming will push the adoption. [inaudible] that industry switch from subscription to apps. To apps . Ads. Ads . Yeah. It was always ads. I mean, it was early on the idea of, you know, that was one of the things they started were banner ads and this idea of clicking and sending money to site, marketing and all of that. [inaudible] yeah. So we have time for maybe one more question. Okay. Maybe talk a little bit about, you know, the fascinating part i read in the book, one of them, was how gary tried to get back control of his ownership yeah. His effort with the government, i thought, was kind of fascinating. Which part do you mean . I remember when i guess he tried to file some initial requests from some government agencies, and they didnt even know which agency, if i remember quickly. Oh, oh, oh, with the right. Yeah. Right. So the question is how did gary, i mean, what the question also is, is how did in the happen . How did Something Like this happen . The answer is, one, that this was a kind of keystone cops era of the internet. It was one company, network solutions, who at the time was, they were tasked with the registration of domain names. Its the really hard. You know, technology, everything moves so quickly. This is just like, you know, this is just such ancient history, it seems so long ago, but at the time no one thought these sites had any value. So they werent really thinking of it in terms of, well, what happens if someone tries to steal someone elses domain . Who cares anyway . So what happened was that gary tried to immediately he contacted the company and said this is my site. And they said, well, we have all this documentation. You know, heres a letter from this other owner transferring the rights to Steven Michael cohen, and gary said there is no other owner [laughter] like, that was my roommate. The letter was misspelled. I mean, it was so and one of, the letter allegedly was from a woman who garyed had worked with who was actually a roommate who had nothing to do with the site. And in the letter, this woman says the reason im writing is because we dont have a good internet can connection. An internet company. So, you know, but gary, but despite this, the company was not just going to hand this over. It had to go through the courts and got drawn out. And as i said, it ultimately really you can read about just the sex. Com case and the legal side of it which was crucial for establishing this idea of property online. So so, clearly, there are a lot of twists and turns still in this story that we havent gotten to. Youre going to have to read up on those. Please do. Theres going to be time for a book signing. I just wanted to clarify that feel free to get your books signed and pay on your way out. But now lets please thank david kushner. Thank you for coming. [applause]