Transcripts For CSPAN2 Environmental Regulations Impact On Farmers And Ranchers 20180209

Good morning, i call this hearing to order. We will hold a hearing on the impact of federal environmental regulations and policies on American Farming and ranching communities. The discussion here today is not about the value of environmental regulations but about how some federal regulations can be inflexible, antiquated, duplicative and ultimately harmful to american agriculture, a critical part of our nations economy. Members of this committee should work to ensure environmental laws are strong and effective without being overly burdensome. This is often a difficult task. The United States is blessed that our ecosystems require different kinds of stewardship to remain healthy. In wyoming we have an abundance of prosperity and in forest, a variety of mountain habitats. Wyoming ranchers and farmers are familiar with the ecosystem and its need. This is where they work, live and invest their energy. Farmers and ranchers are the original stewards and understand landscapes and watersheds need to be healthy for plants, wildlife, crops and wild stock. The living proof, interacting with nature can be done in an environmentally sound way, leaving the resources in better condition and where we found them. Washington policies do not always translate well in Rural America. In wyoming i often hear how out of touchenvironmental regulations have become. For far too long but people feed, clothe and house our nation have been burdened by policies that failed to reflect the on the ground realities. We can look no further than the Obama Administrations failed waters of the United States rule. Under that rule, farmers and ranchers across the country were told that irrigation ditches, ponds and puddles were quote, navigable waters. To be regulated by the federal government. Im happy to say that last week the delay in implementation of the rule became final. And in the epa and army corps of engineers time to make sure that any new rule protect americas Water Resources while not unnecessarily burdening farmers and ranchers and Small Businesses and communities across america. When writing legislation, Congress Must take care to ensure policy achieves the desired objective area agencies must do the same when developing regulations. I believe that we should prioritize updating and revising policies that while wellintentioned, were not designed to micromanage agriculture. One example is the new animal waste emission reporting requirements. Over the past several months farmers and ranchers struggled to comply with ambiguities and an ambiguous Agency Directive following an esapril 2017 decision in the Dc Circuit Court. That decision fundamentally changed reporting requirements under the comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act and the Emergency Planning and community right to know act. Rightfully known as circle. The ruling meant up to 100,000 farmers and ranchers who had never been required to report the loss works only required to comply. Even though they wanted to comply with the ruling, the process and implications of compliance were unclear. Because both circle andthroat were not written with the intent of regulating these farms and ranches. And the environment recorded emissions from animal waste came without context and largely without any agency guidance. Let me now turn to the National Environmental policy act. We cannot discuss environmental regulations and their impact on agriculture operations without mentioning people. It is at the core of every decision in each landuse plan, Resource Management proposal, trailing and crossing permit and allotment that farmers and ranchers need. But is not limited to agriculture. For years we have discussed the effect it has had on delaying the rconstruction of roads, bridges, parks, reservoirs and other critical infrastructure. Environmental analysis can be important in many cases, competing neighbor takes far too long. As neva delays, improvements around the farm or ranch areas, ecosystems needs change and farmers, ranchers and their families wait for an answer. We will hear from todays witnesses. These are families whose lives and livelihoods, hopes and dreams are inseparable from the land in the waters they work so hard to complete. These are not the only examples of punishing regulations that farmers and ranchers and communities still face. Also hear about the duplicative requirements in the application of pesticide already covered under the federal insecticide, fungicide or pick from. Issues of privacy in the collection of data on farmers and ranchers and how the endangered species act had been implemented in the subsequent negative impact on farming and ranching operations. These and other examples will be mediscussed but we as a committee can better understand how we can help these hardworking communities across our country. Before we move on to our witnesses i like to turn to the Ranking Member, senator parted. Thank you and for bringing us all together today and a special thanks to our witnesses. I feel privileged to be able to introduce michael, secretary of agriculture for a second tour. And in a moment, let me first give a brief statement and introduce michael. No other sector of our nations economy is successful or r closely tied to the quality of in our environment as agriculture. Farmers are our nations original conservationists. We understand better than anyone else the need for clean water and highquality soil that we need not just to feed ourselves but to feed the world. Over 40 percent of our land is dedicated to funding. And our state are employees some 30,000. Nearly 1 billion a year to our state economy. Pressing the first dayfarmers on the first in the nation for value of product produced. In the number of onlima beans harvested, first in the, and i think in Sussex County which is the Third Largest county, first in collection of broilers by county. We do all this while practicing exceptional Environmental Stewardship and our Farming Community is working closely in partnership with usda, state agencies and cities. Carnations environmental laws have been helping us liver clean air and water. And our farmers and ranchers. I should add that our list to that list are fishing communities, because their success is also greatly dependent on a healthy environment and vital ecosystems. For example, epa has found that in 2005, the Clean Air Act rules that were from ground small can also protect our crops. And animals, to the tune of 14 billion in estimated cost by 2020. Clean air act also protects crops from damaging ultraviolet radiation by protecting ozone layer and admitting the use of ozonedepleting pheromones. It turns out that those Clean Air Act protections will prevent an estimated 7 and a half percent drop in future crop yields in 20 25. There are other Environmental Issues where we need to act and do more to help our farmers. For example, Climate Change is already disrupting the likelihood of farmers and ranchers. Federal Governments International Climate Assessment found that and i quote, climate disruption of Agricultural Production , of increased in about 20 years and are projected to increase in the next 25 years and the mid century and beyond these impacts will be e increasing on every one of the crops and livestock. The science special report released in november 2017 confirmed these trends. I look forward to hearing your testimony of our nwitnesses. Other Environmental Programs have created new Income Opportunities for farmers. The fuel has been an economic driver in communities across our country. s of thousands of farmers across our country are enrolled in usdas Conservation Program and farmers for the Water Quality and Habitat Conservation services they provide and protect. I acknowledge though that sometimes rvenvironmental requirements can be complex and referred to us this already. Those requirements can be confusing to those who perform. One hosuch example is the emission requirements for farmers. The comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act. And the environmental, Emergency Planning and the committee right to know known as apc ra. In 2008, the Bush Administration promulgated a rule that exempted all the largest forms from her promoting. Ein 2017 the Dc Circuit Court overturned the 2008 rule, putting farmers on notice that they would soon need to be reporting. Unfortunately, these reporting guidance were supporting has been confusing and unhelpful. Along with a number of other colleagues in this room and outside his room, ive been pushing epa for several months to do better. Epa has had more work to do and are urging we need to request more time from the court to continue having workable guidance and giving Congress Time to act on their decision. Last week as we know gave the epa till the 21st to get this right. More than 2008 rule, on committee to work for a solution that balances the pollutant of this reporting on requirements , with the needs of Emergency Response officials. It is the right of local committee, this is what the administration sought to do in 2008 and it is how i believe we should proceed. Just a quick word of introduction on excuses, joining us today. I have attempted to read if i may be incredible, i will do that but it is anincredible record of service and achievement. The skus family is highly regarded in our state. We have three counties, most of our stages north, those family farm forever. And its enjoyed great success. Its really been a role model for a lot of folks informing and outside. And i mentioned in my statement that farmers were our First Official conservationists. These families are a great example of that. In addition to serving for what hes done with his own family business, hes served as our secretary of agriculture not once but the years, almost 8 years under the governor and served as chief of staff for a period of time and in the Current Administration. Again, our secretary of agriculture and were excited that he is. In addition hes at the Obama Administration to come down here and serve in washington in a number of Senior Leadership positions including undersecretary and department of agriculture. Acting secretary of agriculture for our country which is just extraordinary. Hes a good friend and im just honored that youre here today with us, michael and we salute you for all the work you continue to do, thank you for joining us. Before we had to the panel we have a number of introductions. After ernst and moran have introductions. Thank you mister chair and today i have a great honor of introducing a fellow iowan, doctor howard hill, a hard farmer from cambridge who served as president of the National Pork Producers Council and is a veterinarian with iowa select farms. Previously doctor hill was director of Veterinary Services and multiplication for families in roseville North Carolina and was in microbiology in the iowa state universitys laboratory. Doctor hill served as president of an tbc for the 2014 2015 term and prior to that was a member of the nt pc board of directors serving on a number of committees and cochairing the environmental policy committee. He also served on the board of directors of the iowa pork producers he was the chairman of the Research Committee and the contract growers committee. Doctor hill owns a farm which produces breeding stocks or dan usa. He also partners with his son on the family farm where they had a purebred angus for and 2500 acres of grow crops. Thank you for being here today doctor hill, we look forward to hearing your testimony. Senator moran. Thank you to the Ranking Member for having our hearing and its an honor for me to introduce the committee. Kansas farmer from wheaton kansas in the North Central part of our state. Don has been actively engaged in the National Farmers union for a very long time. These a leader in agriculture and Rural America and i hold don in high regard for his love and passion for small towns across our state. He recognizes fully as most of us do that if Rural America is going to have a future, its because farmers and ranchers are having success and i appreciate him and especially on the conservation issue, he has a great love for the land and o understand how importantclear skies and good soil and clean water is across our state so don, i welcome you to the committee and thank you for your testimony. Thank you, we also had joining the panel mister zippy duvall who is the president of the farm Bureau Administration but first we will hear from mister nell hansen who joins us from rawlins wyoming. He is the past president of my wyoming Stock Growers Association who served as secretary and treasurer for the public lands council. The thirdgeneration rancher, nell knows that raising g cattle, sheep and horses is full of challenges. Nels has worked with the university of wyoming and bureau of Land Management to develop Rangeland Monitoring which has allowed nels to become familiar with both the deeds of his livestock and the needs of our rangeland ecosystem. Successful evstewardship is evident in the longevity and success of his family ranch which has also been recognized for many years in wyoming. The bureau of Land Management recognizes deranged management stewardship award in 2000 and in 2001, the ranch was named a Little Snake River conservation district collaborator of the year. Now has been recognized repeatedly for his leadership in the industry and in his community. He served as a member of the rollins and rescued and inducted into the agriculture hall of fame in 2011. Im pleased to have you with us to lend your experience to the committee. I ask that amyou please procee. Thank you karen and member carver, members of the committee. Thank you for having me here today for the federal regulations of how the federal regulations affect my ranch and others across the country. My name is nels hansen, my family is in the branching in our area for 120 years. Today, my son is home taking care of the ranch so i can be with you today. As stated, i am the past president of the association, past chairman of the wyoming state grazing board, member of the national almonds association, i currently serve as secretarytreasurer for National Public lands council. Our ranch covers 230,000 acres around in central wyoming. Its private and bln in checkerboard land. And we stand over three waters, and beyond branching, we take as much of the last 30 years working on these issues that we are discussing today in wyoming and in washington dc across the west. As recently as last week at the national almonds convention, i taught the class on working with other agencies and how to try cto educate people how to get along and work towards their goal. In our interactions with the federal agencies, our First Priority is also waste to identify Common Ground that we can work towards. We are constantly entitled in a web of federal regulations. Im here today to talk about just a few of those regulations impact our ranch. As long as it remains on the books, the obama era continues to be a threat to our operation. On our ranch, we wrestle with the management of three watersheds. None of them played directly into the adjacent federal waters. But under the ambiguous and overreaching 2015 rule, it was impossible to know whether we are exempt or not. As a family rancher, i should not need to hire hydrologists, engineers to figure this out. Im grateful for the administration has taken steps to rollback this rule e and replace it with something more workable. More work still needs to be done. We stand ready to help in any way we can. Another regulation i shouldnt be wrestling with an hour operations is the reporting requirements under. The simple fact is emissions from normal livestock operations should not be covered under this rule. In particular, it is absurd to require such reporting 43,000 had operation like mine spread across 60 square miles. Such an operation require a coordinated Emergency Response. Congress needs to fix this. As we all know, you cant dismiss anywhere in the country without taking into account wildlife management. Two pieces of legislation that make it very difficult for me are the endangered orspecies act and the Migratory Bird. However the well intended, psa is 40 years old. It needs to be updated to reflect the Lessons Learned and issues of today. Fastforward must work for all. Not just environmental litigants to pay their bills with proceeds from legal settlements. Our best opportunity to modernize the essay is through last yearsbipartisan western governors recommendations. But only addressing esa does not solve all problems. The Migratory Bird act is working so well, populations of ravens are exploding on my ranch and around the west. This act allows for a proportional response to growing populations the threat in our young livestock with federal agents are slow to grasp the necessary predation authority and expand the civility. For me, its the ravens. In other parts of the country, cormorants, vultures and other predators are the issue. In conclusion, please recognize that the ranchers are in your eyes and ears on the land. We are your best tool for to achieve any real conversation objective on the ground. Thomas loose, no one is more dedicated to the health of the land than those of us who work to implement it. Let the ranchers do what we do best and everyone will benefit. The species, the ecosystem ev and the Rural Communities. Thank you again for your in my testimony and i look forward to answering any questions. Thank you for traveling here and thanks for the excellent testimony. Mister devol. Good morning chairman bradley. And thank you writing member. Members of the committee, rsi appreciate the opportunity to talk to you about realworld impact on overregulation on farmers ranches. My name is due ball and im a Poultry Farmer in georgia. My son is home right now, hes fourthgeneration and alsoproviding large animal veterinary medicine. I was elected president of American Farm bureau two years ago and i visited farms in all 50 states. And ive talked with him about the things that keep them only at night. Two of the issues that have, at almost every farm that i visited were the lack of adequate legal labor. And the burden of overregulation on the farms. Regulatory process today is a product of the decades of administrative and judicial decisions, without much effort to integrate these into the system makes sense to all of us. Farmers and ranchers are sharing their stories about the impact of regulations on their lives and their farms. And in west virginia, a poultry farm who operates one of the cleanest ours ever seen is spending tens of thousands of dollars of legal bills to vedefend our farm against epa emissions interpretation of the clean water act. There are officers and an authority from Congress Without Public Notice have used what amounts to s extortion against ranchers in utah to force their hand over , forcing them to hand over their private water rights as a condition of federal grazing permits. Endangered species act has not beensuccessful in recovering distant species , only 50 species have been recovered out of 1661 species listed in the past 45 years. Thats a three percent success rate. 11 species have gone extinct under the federal protection. Meanwhile, the esa has made a hard ranking to use their land and take their livestock. Last but not least, the epa under provisions of Previous Administrations finalize the waters of the us rule that penalizes the failure of our currentregulatory system. The laws that govern this process the administrative procedure act is more than 70 years old and is way overdue for reform. Especially when you consider how social media can save some of this input. Finally mister chairman, i have had farmers and ranchers who are not sure that they want to encourage that children remain on the farm and i remind you that anevery average age of the American Farmer is 58 years old. Generation of farmers and ranchers will be hanging out their hats in a few years and we need to ask ourselves who is going to be willing to step up and take the place and grow the food for our tables and americans around the world. As committed as young people are like my son says , they cannot continue if these over regulatory burdens continue to grow. Farm income is down by 50 percent compared to five years ago. The regulatory costs have not gone down any. These bags would give policy to even the most dedicated farmer and rancher. I would like to close with a quote from the basement of my home state, president jimmy carter. He signed an executive order on march 1978 that states, regulations should not impose unnecessary burdens on the economy, on individuals, on public and private organizations or on state and local governments. Regulations should be developed through a process which ensures that compliance costs, paperwork and other burdens are minimized. Then theres president trumps executive order of a year ago that requires agency to repeal two rules for every one rule and in signing the executive order, the president said every regulation should have to pass a simple test. Does this make life better or safer for American Workers and consumers . This is not a partisan issue. This is about allowing our farmers and businesses to be productive. Its about a goal that i believe we all share an regulatory process that is credible, one that we can get behind instead of having to fight against. Thank you mister chairman and im gladto answer any questions. Thank you mister do all for your testimony. Good morning chairman, Ranking Members and members of the committee. Special thanks to my home state whose got tremendous amount of work for iowa farmers. Doctor howard hill, im a veteran pork producer and a member of the Pork Producers Council on whose behalf im testifying today. Pork producers are committed to responsible managing their animals and respecting water and air quality and maximizing benefits and value is a vital source of nutrients for crops that we grow. And pvc and pork producers how long and proud history of working cooperatively with regulators at the state and federal levels and are supportive of Environmental Policies and programs. One, the Environmental Performance for producers had a high probability of resulting in meaningful environmentalimprovements. Two, the measures involved are practical, affordable and three, producers are given a realistic amount of time to adopt measures and associated systems so that they can continue to be profitable and successful. Nppc has worked with epa on occasions to ensure the agencys rules make those principles and that they ultimately protect the environment. One of the best examples of our cooperative effort was the National Air Emissions Monitoring study or the emissions of swine operations. Work producers used about 6 million of their own funds to support that epa to provide thirdparty study and approximately 5000 science facilities enrolled in the epa and their consent agreements that made the work possible. But when necessary, nppc will fight bad Environmental Policies and programs, producers cannot oppose regulations but they will pull rules that are not found, and effective. Air emission releases, almost all Livestock Farmers are now required to report emissions that result from a breakdown of animal waste. Epa first issued the rules in 2008, all the farmers were exempt from reporting and all the largest operations were exempt from aftra because producers and epa never really leave to the agriculture emissions from manure neconstituted the types of emergency or crisis that eftra was intended to address. Agriculture also never understood how the reporting of Farming Missions to the coast guard under circular would have supported the legitimate Emergency Response purpose of those regulations. The reports that required under eftra had to be made at the state and local Emergency Response authorities in january 2009. At the time, epa dropped the ball. The agency failed to provide any gardens to farmers on how to report emissions. They failed to provide guidance to agencies that receive those reports and as a result, chaos ensued. All producers had difficult reaching state and local Emergency Response authorities either because online was overwhelmed or they flat ran out of paper. Those who did manage to get through and submit reports were met with disbelief and confusion, statements that is why are you submitting this to us . What are we supposed to do with this information . In illinois, farmers were s told there was no rule requiring reporting, that this was merely an internet hoax and in the southeast, epa told local authorities that the reports were supposed to be submitted to dpas water office. In the wake of that chaos, and ppc and other agriculture groups in 2009 filed lawsuits challenging the epas 2008 rule. Last april, the dc circuit ruled in this case throwing out the agriculture exemption to reporting rules and forcing tens of thousands of Livestock Farmers to figure out how to estimate and report their admissions. The latest industry estimate of the number of animal producers not subject to reporting requirements was over 200,000. While the pork industry is certainly come prepared to comply once the Appeals Court mandates take effect, it should be noted that epa, us coast guard, state and local Emergency Response authorities have gone on record saying not only is there no need for this information but that its volume will create a Major Management challenge with them that will interfere with other legitimate emergency functions. And anyone willing to work with us to help producers improve our Environmental Stewardship w efforts and to address new challenges. Thank you mac thank you doctor hill. Good morningng chairman and Ranking Member darfur and members of the committee i appreciate to speak about the impacts of federal regulation and policies on our ranching. Delaware has benefited from her federal partners to see examples on a daily basis benefiting not only family farmsy for the efforts to improve the overall environment. Delaware was a large Farming Community continues to have Good Neighbor relations today. Although agriculture may not be the same middletown citizens have embraced agriculture through education from the local science programs and extension and farm groups. You can imagine oit the influx f residents have increase the usage of Water Resources while farmers need to hear great their crops. But that waste water to spray irrigation neighboring farms as part of the chesapeake watershed to make runoff make sure runoff does not occur is important farmers can have conservation practices supported by research. The money provided for conservation districts supplemented by usda has been extremely important in enhancing the usage of crops. They not only reduce the amount of soil loss and erosion but establishment is one establish residual nutrients for the next growing season. Epa has helped to generate funds to support one of the best nutrient nitrogen programs in the country thanks to t senator carver with the staff dedicated to help farmers protecting the environment, we have been able to update our standards to meet regulations set forth by epa. We have been able to find collaborations with thirdparty specialist like petro tech to developgu modeling and support our new compliance standards. The renewable fuel standard has increased demand for corn. Farmers produce 10 billion bushels of corn by 2016 they were producing 14. 6 billion bushels of corn to meet demand. With the renewable fuel standard creating a standard dedicated to ethanol but then those nonrenewable resources created a demand but also additional markets. Poultry relocation programs between Poultry Farms without the acreage to utilize those needs have offered an alternative option for the overloading in their field. Also with pilot Energy Generation projects. And with increased extreme drought painful with those increasingly frequent Drought Conditions Climate Change and the increasing intervals of storms and those for trapping and the capacity for combined water flows from agricultural areas. That will impact as crop failures when the crop has not yet emerged and more susceptible to flooding and in some cases rainfall can destroy older crops fruits and vegetables that have substantial input falls. Warmer winter temperatures mean they are susceptible to earlyle frost that increases the damage as we experience spring 2016 leslie as thest climate warms there is a chance of certain agricultural have changes sunday have been limited but at that maximum low temperature where the area rises then they can expand the range to survive where previously they could not. We are Cultural Department is partnering with the conservation through programs like the Environmental Quality Incentive Program to improve the environment and agriculture conservation to benefit the Preservation Program but there is a need for streamlining efforts to be instituted to replace an Older Program it took us three years of negotiation until terms were agreed upon that we lost its funding so that uncertainty and uncertainty deadline extensions causes confusion and with the need of a legislative fix we cannot keep putting farmers on notice for the untimely or inaccurate reporting farmers and ranchers l the department of agriculture is willing to put that effort with a commonsense approach as well as timely outreach and education materials we need a clear definition that is objective and finally with the additional options to remove tillage acreage from consideration to change theou program from 24 million from 30 million acres our farmers and ranchers are in fact the first true long true environmentalist thank you for being heree, today. Thank you Ranking Member for the opportunity thank you for the more than gracious introduction knowing the senator for many years he knows other dirt on me so this makes me nervous. My wife kathy and i a farm operation at the eastern edge of the foothills is ranching and cropping farming with children and grandchildren they are fun. I am the fifth generation on the farm my goal here today is to figure out to figure out the world they can prosper and thrive. I currently serve as vice President National Farmers Union i am not sure how that ever worked out. But when i was contacted to visit with you today my initial thoughts were to decline the invitation i thought it would be too controversial and didnt think i was an expert to talk about i it. Upon further contemplation i suspected the testimony would be aggressively antagonistic and youve got that right. [laughter] i thought bv my experiences with the epa could bring some perspective. So this is a good discussion to have. When we fix them but the goal is to create a world for grandchildren when they can thrive and prosper and it is our responsibility nothing to pushoff on hererri children and not from our ancestors we have to figure out how to Work Together to protect the environment and how to farm profitably but to throw the baby out with the bathwater so we need to Work Together i know i am rambling from the script but you will have to put up with that. [laughter] the next thing to talk about is when introduced to have a vicious backlash and rightly so it wasnt prepared right or introduced rate then to appoint me me to the farmer reinsurer Advisory Committee to the epa to administer its called farm ranch Rural Communities and federal Advisory Committee. So anyhow, that is is a pretty good deal. Considering a conduit that is a good thing. We were never brought into this discussion. And how that could change that. Uc and another point we havent had a phone call or an email so it shouldnt matter the administration in charge and why has that ceased to happen . I will not cover the top parts. But in the 1990s i worked in the epa 319 find in working with farmers across the state with Water Quality we host tumors and it was great this is an example of how good things h can happen and another great thing was the farmer Union Program the nations leader of of Carbon Sequestration modeled after the successful project of the iowa farm bureau. We had over 5 million acres with Carbon Sequestration practices so these are good things. The renewable fuel standard. I have seven seconds. [laughter] thank you. Take you for your testimony and senator to take a picture of him. [laughter] you can keep talking if you need to. [laughter] mr. Sec. You gave positive remarks about the renewable fuel standard and i would note last week your boss, the governor of delaware petitioned the epa to reduce the burdens of the fuel standard for the refineries across the country and as the governor stated quote will undoubtedly severely farm the state of delaware with the entire Atlantic Region in the National Economy and ask unanimousco consent to insert that for the record. Like many enhancers in the west you have a great deal of experience dealing with federal agencies to raise permits you also work for decades with the agencies Come University of wyoming, state state experts to develop and maintain ecosystems and monitoring. You see the process in action countless times. Can you describe the differences between federal processing and state process like economic environmental values and the value of publicly and land . Working with the state of wyoming probably the Biggest Issue is water development. Generally a sixmonth process to turn permits around. Depending on the watershed working with the blm i am guaranteed at least one year or probably to or more. The paperwork and time involved is ridiculous. So in your discussion with fellow ranchers in wyoming, are you more or less confident the economic direction farming with this administration versus dealing with Previous Administrations lmi . Yes. Very much so. What has changed from wyoming and other states . Definitely a cando attitude in the agencies with a desire to work with the people on the land what we had prior to the last administration with people in the agency reaching out to identify issues we can get together on prior to that it was connected with the environment it was horrible we were losing good people right and left. So talking about how much time it takes for the paperwork but in 2008 epa provided a small exemption to small farms for animal waste emissions under the comprehensive Liability Act the agency determined that the scope of reporting under those two laws would reduce the time burden for farmers and ranchers required to report. This was the estimation 2008. 1,290,000 hours over a tenyear period. Now the d. C. Circuit court overturned that exemptionio april 2017 forcing farmers and ranchers to report all of these things. So mr. Hill, those producers that you represent to they have the ability to comply with these laws . Mr. Chairmanpe know we dont have the time. But we dont have the tools. There is no way to do that. T. It is impossible. Yes sir. When we start thinking about reporting and i expected this question would come up because it is a big issue across farmland. There is the individual farmer concerned that we have. One is public safetyty concerns. Asking 200,000 farmers to report then they have to respond it will overwhelm down and draw the resources away from actual emergencies. The secondrc issue is National Security issue reportingbe animals then we will create a roadmap if anybody can find any farm anywhere where the food system is produced and those that work around the world trying to do harm to the country will have access to our food supply and that is a very dangerous area to go into. Talking about the individual farmer has to give up his personal information of where he lives and that exposes him to be harassed by activists and dont think that isnt happening because it does. As my friend fromni wyoming said we dont have the tools to do that. The main study was designed to help the epa develop those factors which that program was done in the 2010 still has not been completed. We would like to see those factors developed so producers do have some way to estimate of missions in case they do have to report. The other thing is we dont consider farming and the omissions as an emergency. That is an everyday process and we ask ourselves who wants this information . In some cases it is the advocate of livestock production in a can misuse that information just like the farms trying to build a packing plant in mason city iowa they recorded back their with 45 arms and activists brought that information to me the people in the community believe that those 45 reports were violation and got the people so w aroused they eventually voted down that packing plant to ocher ocher. I did not ask to yield can i just ask . So for the record pointed out by the secretaries of the renewable fuel standards and also other parts but the issue exhibits before us here is east coast refineries and how they are affected with volatility. That is the issue our governor is raising. The epa canar help us resolve this constructively and my hope is they will. Without objection. Thank you chairman for your generous generosity senator carper. 2006 from dublin county North Carolina came to washington asking for help now there are 60000 people who live in this county in North Carolina but more than 2 million pigs being raised there and the waste from 2 million page is the waste of 20 million people. The primary way it is disposed of is by piping it into huge open air maneuver lagoons into open fields so people came to washington talking about respiratory problems like asthma higher rates of asthma and depression and other Health Problems caused by living near these lagoons and other spray fields. I was so astonished we dont have these in new jersey that i went down he firsthand what was going on. T i saw that pig waste being sprayed i sought with my own eyes how it was going into the Global Community onto adjacent properties. The wretched smell everywhere wewe went in their homes and communities is something i will not forget. Meeting with local residents in a large group and heard their painful stories how the Drinking Water in the wells is runoff and they felt like prisoners in their own homes cannot open windows or run airconditioners. So we do need to make sure they dont have unnecessary government regulations but also something has to be done about these horrible conditions it saw. It is harming farmers and the communities they live in and to be clear i do not think it should be the farmers who are living in challengingg conditions b making very low wages and very tough margins. I dont think these good hardworking americans should not have to solve this problem. It is the integrators who make billions of dollars of profits one of the Biggest Companies owned company with the pork shipped to their country they are outsourcing these problems to us while taking the benefit of our pork. My time is short but this is one of the more painful things i have seen as an american and it is a long answer im sure suggest to respect my time could you please provide to me a written response for the record what steps your industry is taking to reduce impact of what i saw and the impact on real American People can you provide that in writing . We could do that. We have the largest population of swine in iowa using new technology to apply maneuver. We dont see that. I dont mean to interrupt but i have other questions can you just respond int writing . No human being should have to live in those conditions in propertyol values have gone down. An so please respond in writing because i have w other question. Mr. Hill some family farmers are right behind you credible americans who i have had reverence for and respect they are here today including hog farmers they have expressed concerns aboutut a different problems like the Pork Checkoff program they are required to pay into but does not help their interest. The federal court founded payments of millions of dollars of the Checkoff Funds to your organization the Pork Producers Council and said theyey must stop the republican senator from utah and i have introduced a bipartisan bill to make reforms of the checkoffff program. So do you agree it is beneficial to make them more transparent to family farmers like those behind you who bring that real work in america can quickly see the budgets and expenditures approved by the usda it is good to have independent audit so there is a fundamental fairnes for the small family farmers struggling so much and that the Checkoff Fund should only be used in ways to benefit for all farmers paying into them . They are. They are being used to the benefit of everybody now 26 of all o pork so in 1993 we were a net importer of pork so those funds are used for a lot of Different Things part of that is used for developing customers outside of the United States which the industry depends on to help producers. My time has expired but a judge has disagreed people are shaking their head back and forth no. We are not getting the benefit think that is something that we should reform. Mr. Chairman my work on this committee over a number of years it isnt difficult to understand or come to the conclusion these roads are about one thing only which is primarily federal control. Looking at some of those regulations and i tie that directly to the economic success that jumps up over 3 per year. What will one of the regulations from one year ago to do with the congressional review process was a rule put in by the Previous Administration that said if you are competing with china or somewhere else you have to give them part of the playbook with a disadvantage so it was easy to draw up the cra to pass that with the ceremony but we have all of these regulations out there it would be pretty outrageous. So you mentioned in your Opening Statement so i know when i went around you took a position those organizations to representla farmers. In my area it is very arid and those people of all regulations put in by the Previous Administration that was the number one regulation from the American Farm bureau and other organizations. Ld so is there anything you didnt say about that particular regulation to be costly or inconvenient with a negatively effect . Yes sir. Look at the conservation practices we put on the ground and you start to transition land from one o use to another pair are unbelievable permitting procedures the country has to go through to be able to do that. Are you in the panhandle of oklahoma . That is their concern after it rains it is considered a wetland now you lose the jurisdiction do you see that consistently around the country . Be met consistently and also the variance between agencies of what is a wetland and what is not. And how farmers can proceed. I appreciate that very much. Now i will do this quickly because probably you are familiar with what we try to do with the prairie chicken and we had seven states oklahoma texas kansas, new mexico, and colorado. And they determined what they could do and what type of reform and everyone agreed it was nearperfect everybody deciding at home the solution and what it was. Sometimes you wonder if we go through all of that trouble with the private sector with the land owners that we know concerned about the endangered species why is it you look at others doing that they dont put much weight on that . Im talking about local programs do you think about that . All the time it is very frustrating to find a solution to the issue is identified then have the rug pulled out from under you. With fish and Wildlife Service previously all conversations and the plan they knew what was coming and they pulled the rug out. Exactly what happened. By the way fish and wildlife also agreed the best steward of the land is the land owners themselves. They need to be listened to also. Thank you senators. I am happy to yield. Thank you very much, senator. I appreciate you bringing your experience here to capitol hill. So with thaton Agricultural Research service the administration had proposed a significant cut of 360 million closing the laboratories across the country and on a bipartisan basis we work to keep that program recognizing the impact with the yield of our crops new diseases with the importance of exploring the qualities under different conditions. So i just wantla to ask do support the Agricultural Resource Service . By all means. It is so important for our country to invest in research and development on the agricultural basis. If you look around the world with the research and Development Dollars that is concerning to us people around the world have the opportunity to catch up so research and development is the key thing we need to do to help the farmers stay on the cuttingedge. I dont knoww what the next budget will look like but i hope we have your support to continue these programs. The second piece that is important to a number ofec farmers and ranchers is this weekend i was visiting those towns in northeast oregon and in one of the towns with the local county commissioner his ranching operation would have gone down if not for Conservation Program to help providee resources to help the books balance. I had not heard it put in those terms but in general is the farm bureau supportive . Yes. Also we are required by regulation to do certain things as farmers we want to take care of our land and water so to have a partnership with the general public and the government of a partnership to emphasize to help us do the right thing and help us do the right thing because we make huge investments ourselves. These are voluntary programs. And it is cost sharing. By the way he also talked about his concern because we had a voluntary program where ranchers can adopt measures and then they are protected from any rules of the endangered p she sacked by being upfront and we have hundreds of ranchers sign up for this. Im not really asking a question but noting that they are very concerned about the partnership that was put together worried that it might fall apart under pressures of administration. Also asking about the agricultural workforce many of us from the winemakers and growers with the farmworkers to make bad economy function with a whole lot of traditional t workers are not showing up with the commentary with the attitude to the role of the farmworkers. Does the farm bureau support working to embrace the role of the farmworkers as part of the agricultural economy . Those are in the country are skilled workers and our business require skilled workers it is the biggest limiting factor to farms and to be able to create additional jobs whether on the farm or manufacturing or performing the commodity sector it is a critical issue it is the most restraining issue we have. I look forward to working with all of you as we endeavor to address this challenge. Thank you. Senator wicker . My friend from new jersey outlined the situation in North Carolina and i want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. The response on the record will be helpful to thousands of people listening on television they need to know that what you are about to tell us is that it doesnt have to be that way with your farms in iowa you have a solution. But what we are talking about is the reporting requirement. Congress thought we had recognized that certain farmers should be excluded from this reporting requirement with u. S. Court of appeals d. C. Circuit now the decision has to stay and the farmers to know where they are. I do notice that mr. Scuse said we need a legislative fix i would suggest long assume that you agree with that. We cannot keep putting farmers on notice wondering where they are hit with legal liability or inaccurate reporting so toin have bipartisan support and consensus we need a legislative fix so we tell the members of the panel that senator fischer and a republican and and a democrat to introduce legislation this week with the agricultural reporting method would clarify this rule to exempt all animal feeding operations from reporting so if you could speak to that doctor hill and mr. Do fall but also finish a thought that could give reassurance to our friends in North Carolina they dont have to experience what was described from my friend from new jersey. First of all we would support that bill 100 . We need clarity. What producers fear now is they will use inadequate tools to estimate these omissions then if they are wrong they will have huge penalties. So that bill would be supported. Senator booker misrepresented the pork industry in North Carolina. I worked there five years and that is a gross misrepresentation of the farms in North Carolina. They do use Different Technology than we do in iowa they have a growing crop yearround we do not so they can use those spray fields it is not robin knew her they are long maneuver on the bermuda grass but today weud almost use that to prevent runoff and also prevent we feel we have made tremendous progress with the maneuver. Manure with trying to do everything they can to be good stewards. What about the farm bureau legislation . And do we agree with what we are talking about is the unfortunate decision about a reporting requirement on the small operations . We do agree with that those that try to get involved to fix something that is very difficult my neighbor to the left explained it very eloquently putting our farmers atin risk. Also a 1500 acres in georgia how will i report that then i have four chicken houses how do i report those omissions . It is a big liability that was not the intent of the congress we think. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses for joining us in this conversation in my home state of illinois i witnessed firsthand when we thrive the entire state thrives on policy of critical importance is the renewable fuel standard. So it is a mix of biofuel the policy has helped to cut the dependence on foreign oil it is critical to the efforts to combat Climate Change also with the Economic Policy with more than 4000 jobs to generate more than 5 billion of economic impact. Nationwidete reporting 86000 jobs to help have billions of tax revenues and all the First Responders can you explain how that has helped the Agricultural Community . I would like to comment from earlier with the opposition to the renewable fuel standard. It deals with the purchase of the blending and that is something that needs to be addressed because of the speculation that it causes the price to go up and it does need to be addressed. Looking at the renewable fuel standard what has been able to do for Rural Communities producing 4. 8 bushels of corn every year if we were not using using 4. 5 bushels of that for the ethanol industry which improves the environment we would be so far below production we would not be able to participate in this country if you look at the feed value of the byproduct in 2121 of the worst droughts in the history of the United States and those that were arguing to set that renewable fuel standard aside because of the fear there would not be enough corn. Livestock producers traveling across the United States livestock producers in every single state that i visited said please do not allow epa to set that fuel standard aside. We need that to feed our livestock whether dairy or pork or beef so looking at a more costeffective area and the senator said that the health of the Rural Community depends on the health and welfare of farmers and ranchers in renewable fuel standards have done that to create jobs and improve the environment giving producers another outlet to help them keep those rules communities viable. Changing biofuel production in this country could negatively impact. It could have and would have a large negative impact that their producers were receiving. And the reality is most vehicles on the road today could use a 15 we now have stations across the state so consumers have a choice they can get a 15 now in many cases stations are providing dad five that is the direction we need to go with Renewable Energy not just one we have to pump out of the ground that iss not renewable this helps communities across the country and livestock producers. I have been using that since 2006. 55 of my home state the trend is that Drought Conditions are on the rise whether it is a changing changing climate that they are concerned growing seasons are changing but not for the better as a farmer can you share what types of tools and resources they need for climate conditions . Thank you senator duckworth. In kansas it is very obvious we have a changing climate. I see farmers getting ready to plant corn there is a coffee shop where they get the machines ready but actually it is working more and more and with my own operation. As a farmer under 13 years i finally gave that up because of the changing weather patterns our spring changed so much i could not get the ground worked up implanted between the weather events so i had to change to match the weather patterns. I wish i was still organic. They are planning more and more on catastrophic events the governor of iowa talked about dealing with Climate Change to title the entire state. Weather patterns affect different areas dramatically and i happen to be on top of the world so i dont have to worry about floods but i do have to worry about maintaining three streambanks and dealing with the ever changing climate especially with livestock. Thank you. Senator fischer. Mr. Chairman i have very excited are holding this hearing today. I really am. I appreciate the comments about farming and ranching communities as the backbone and the heart of the state because that is true in nebraska as well. What a great panel the Farmers Union, farm bureau and your comments on the senator crapo i do have some legislation on that. I appreciate you have the opportunity to respond when senator wicker asked earlier and i appreciatete that. My husband and i do have a cattle ranch our sons are fourthgeneration ranchers and we understand conservation and being true environmentalist. Our families, our neighbors and producers all across the state of nebraska do and ag producers, farmers and ranchers all across the United States understand that. We take care of the land and live on the land, we want cleanst air, clean water, and we manage our livelihood and our lives to make sure that we have that and we continue preserve that for future generations. So now talking to another reinsurer, mr. Hanson thank you for being here. I would like to build off of senator barrassos comments if we can. When in your statement you discuss the reporting requirements and those were directed to the National Response center operated by the United States coast guard. I dont know if people are aware of that. Used by the federal government to facilitate a government coordinated Emergency Response effort to in hallways daughters this does not make a lot of sense. Not only is there no added value of these requirements record these but this will jam up the response personnel at the National Response center preventing them from responding to true emergencies. Mr. Hanson can you describe what major Cattle Producers have to do with the reporting requirements . We have no tool we have no tools to do that. I cannot answer the question. Im sorry. You cannot fill out the report . Exactly. You are both talking about privacy concerns with the reportsac and also with activists coming to personal private property. Do you have anything to add to those comments. No. Farmers and ranchers are in a difficult economy we dont need to put any burden on them this presents a huge liability issue they are not doing anything wrong but if you give them a tool for reporting it i would answer we have no way to measure that. Then to hire an expert who the expert and then to spend thousands of dollars that we cannot afford to h do even in a good economy. You also mentioned in your written testimony the compliance challenges as a result of the countermeasure farm fuel storage and while that included a provision to buy more flexibility the overreach continues to weigh heavily on the minds of farmers and ranchers in the basket and across the country was originally required for Oil Refineries but now ag producers are being forced to comply so what do you believe must be done to alleviate the burden for farmers and ranchers . I guess i have to say we need to exempt the people on the ground it is such a different situation the risk is minimal. With the Previous Administration there was a study we have requested and i would point out one of the areass studied was leakage of jet fuel i dont know too many farms or ranches that have jet fuel so if you have a flawed study it leads to flawed policy and flawed decisionmaking so i hope we can ahead not just on the rule but on the regulation and another number of rules that are out there that people who own the land, everyday producers who try to take care of their families and communities, find such a disadvantage to fight government every single day. Thank you. On a lighter note i said what would you name him . Mr. Devol . [laughter] this is the first time i have ever been asked at a congressional hearing [. We can put you under oath. [laughter] by my fathers words he wanted a big family to get his farm work done and the nurse said that is a piece of cake we will put a zipper in her stomach and that is how it got started. [laughter] so just to clarify you said the agriculture advisory he has not yet heard from this p administration . I thought i heard you say earlier with the Previous Administration with respect to advisoryulture committee and you also said you have not heard yet by phone or email from the Current Administration . Yes. Administrator mccarthy appointed right before she left that position with the intention of having some continuation from the previous oradvisory group. I would have liked to have thought if there was any action going on it would have known about it but there has been total silence. Stirrers secretary . With those laws to the u. S. Help us understand was it not the intention or the results of the Obama Administration of the process . I heard for years that they didnt understand the needed clarity in terms with clarity and certainty by raising crops inconsistent with the clean water act and as a result that was to develop the waters of the u. S. Having a townhall meeting or a farm as you may recall those from the epa army core of engineers a couple years ago what was needed in the way of certainty . And from that testimony we have heard that everything was fine when we didnt have insert my certainty so now trying to deal with that you are in the middle of all of this is the acting secretary so your thoughts . You are on the inside. Thank you. We need to take a step back and look at why all this happened if memory serves me correctly resulted from the Supreme Court hearing with the epa in the chicago area where there was a wetland that they deemed that was not connected to many other waters. Look at the confusion wither that case then the epa attempted to define what were waters of the u. S. And the overreach by the epa in attempting to come to what constituted waters of the u. S. Is when we started down the road to look at what does constitute the waters of the United States . What do we need to put in placeth to protect those certain waters across the United States . So the last administration brought that certainty to the producers and other areas of the United States to show as the senator pointed out to reach out to all of the communities that would be impacted but unfortunately i do not know if that happened in other areas of the United States but this was an attempt by the Obama Administration not just the Agricultural Sector but others as well what constitutes orders of the United States. My recollection as they were developed for that regulation development, four years with hundreds of meetings including our state their review of peerreviewed studies and legal policy and eeeconomic analysis consideration of over 1 million Public Comments on a credible basis to pursue a different course. Ieb am told they are essentially always funded so to put that record thank thehe you for yourur clarification as well. Also, one last last question for the entire panel thank you for coming. I appreciate what you do in your life and the rest of the world and we appreciate you being here with us. Looking for those opportunities i see many potential opportunities with guard to environmental policy and for example the application of the input cost and also Greenhouse Gas emissions farming is another example we hear about. D you came in here and i said rhinestone cowboy. You are the e real deal. When you need us off please . This is an example of another winwin opportunity in each of your testimonies. Where a cleaner environment, cleaner air, cleaner water and a more profitable farming actually coexists well. They Work Together. They do not exclude each other. Maybe an example where we can do that, should do that in if you have an example of an area that you think is fertile and that we can explore and nurture we would love to do that. If anyone else would like to do that. Zippy . Yes, we are looking into things twice. We can simplify this and do it efficiently. For example, has done approval of pesticides. There is no reason for the clean water act to be involved to make the same judge it that they have been doing for 40 years. That is just one example. Farmers and ranchers want to do the right thing. In the past was to go to a service to ask for advice and help and look for a partner for us do the right thing on the farm. We are scared of the federal agencies now. Were actually fearful of them because we know they could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to arrange permitting and hiring consultants and lawyers. We want to be a partner with the federal government. We want agencies friendly to us and we are hoping that we can work with you to make that happen. Thank you. I will use the example of Reduction Program that we have in iowa. That is supported by our governor. Our past governor and the current governor. It is a voluntary cooperative project which is funded by the state legislature for over a 10 year period for 300 million. It is projects that producers work in conjunction with state regulatory agencies to put processes in place to reduce runoff, reduce contamination of water and i think it is the right way to go. A cooperative voluntary program rather than somebody from washington coming down and saying this is what you have to do this. This is respond to it a heck of a lot better. Thank you for that. Secretary, this reminds me of what we did in delaware. Would you michael. Senator, there is a lot of different examples i look at what we did in delaware will be created, when you created as an governor and a great thing that weve been able to do to help. Its a great example of people working together to make that happen. And the latest Chesapeake Bay model i think youll be pleased to know will show that delaware has had tremendous improvements in a short period of time. We heard the act or those endangered species. I had to say that there are some things that could be done differently. But and delaware, pretty much every day now, i am being bald eagles. Something that when i was a child, we never saw. You look at some of the other things that are occurring. Did is a bald eagles or Philadelphia Eagles . [laughter] i did not want to miss that by working together we understand that there is a serious issue with honeybees across the United States. And with usda, epa and state partners working together to help find a solution to those problems in areas we are making a difference. The Monarch Butterfly is an issue where we are seeing rapid decline of the Monarch Butterfly but now it states working with the federal partners to plant some weed along the highways to make sure that we have proper habitats those areas. I know there is legislation that youre working on here to renew that but the pesticides registration act helps that companies do the research for our producers to help them do a better job and get better products to our producers. There is another area where these things actually do work. Can there be a better job . Theres a better job. There can be in many of these areas. I think what we need to do we start looking at regulations is working together with ultimately those impacted in listening and finding a solution. And in that way we can eliminate my opinion, some problems we have had impressive ministrations of implementation regulation. If you approve the message would you raise your hand . Let the record show, you raise your hands. Good. Please, same question. Thank you senator. There is two things i would like to discuss. Both are in regards to mitigating Climate Change which is something i am passionate about. Number one is whatever we do as we move forward to mitigate climate problems, a huge part of that will have to be agricultural involvement. We are the stewards of the land. We are the stewards so if Carbon Trading ever comes to be and we can implement a program that is a winwin all around. It is better soil, paying the producer for doing the right thing. It is just logical. And the models there can be successful and to make significant differences. S. And not only the station. And then the other one is the further evolution of the Renewable Fuels and Renewable Fuels standards. If we can grow beyond the status and perennial crop that use less moisture and nutrients than we can do this in the future. I think there is potential in both and winwin in both. Thank you very much for mr. Chairman, i go to wyoming every other week. We have great pressures in our state. A lot of people want to come to the beaches. We have great fivestar beaches. And a lot of people come which is good but it drives development. And we have to be careful we do not over develop our states. A lot of things we worked on when i was governor, and with the administration, was how do we encourage farmers to stay on the land . We have to encourage farmers to stay on the land is that it Development Taking over so they are able to make money. And be profitable. And you just mentioned a couple of things that would help to do that. I think we need to be mindful of that. Obviously there are things that we talked tabout here today bu there is a lot that we agree on. A colleague from wyoming, likes to talk about the 80 20 rule. He says it explains i get some ice done. When is a republican and one is a democrat. But they have the 80 20 rule. He says we agree on 80 percent of the stuff. We disagree on 20 percent. And what we decided to do is focus on the 80 percent where we agree. And the other 20 percent is set naside for another day. That is the 80 20 rule. Heright out of the mouth of the former mayor. A good rule not just for the health and education and Labor Committee but a good rule for this committee. And congress as a whole. It has been wonderful. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you senator carper. Is there anything you would like to add today . Yes thank you. I would like to address the question, i have to ask your forgiveness. And very dedicated about what i do but i cannot hear a thing. So [laughter] when it comes to working together, the field is ripe with opportunity in the west on federal lands. And in our operation, we have proven that there is Common Ground and there is a lot of Common Ground. We always run into the headache of the federal regulation. We get in the paperwork, the Decision Making process and something that is simple to do. Theres a lot of red tape it would improve things on the land. Every time we do something good on the land it affects everything. In our operation weve increased our population, antelope population and live stocks creating a more profitable operation. That was worth waiting for. Thank you very much. When we talked about the time it would take for requirements. We would say we did not have the tools and the time and you raised the issue that trying to report senator fisher to the National Response center, on the release and it is the coast guard. They have expressed concern that this dramatic increase in reporting will overwhelm the capacity to deal with this. Guessing estimate the bible because of the get now, it would increase remote 100 calls a day to over 1000. Interfering with their ability to do this. The government sometimes scome up with mandates it makes it hard to do the job then we need them to do. And a question that has to do with waters of the us by the clean water act. The corps of engineers is the agency that makes the vast majority of jurisdictional determinations that identify waters that are regulated under the clean water act. According to testimony, this Committee Heard during the hearing for the court last year in april. The court was not included fully in this whole process that we had outlined here in terms of developing in the 2015 rule. We talk about million testifying and all of those things. In fact the court stated they did not believe that the role and the preamble is ultimately finalized, they say quote, was viable from a factual, scientific or legal basis. And the court went on to say it would be incredibly difficult for the leaders, regulatory and legal staff, to advance and defend this rule. That is the corps of engineers. They also testified that statements and characterizations of the rule is a joint product of the epa and the corps. A joint product of the epa and the corps. It is flatout false. My question to you is, given the statements by the corps of engineers, how much faith do you have in a Science Behind the current rules as proposed by the Previous Administration . We have no faith in it because in different districts, we have different people that are making those determinations in judgments and there is no scientific basis that they can base their decisions on. And we can say situation to situation where farmers have spent money with consultants and lawyers and was able to put in for a permit and for corps or regulatory persons to say no, i dont agree with you and send you back to the drawing board to spend that money again and try to get them to agree with you. It is all over the board, there is no consistency. I had the opportunity and privilege to have lunch with mr. Pruitt the other day. He asked me, what did we need in the clean unwater act . The definition of navigable waters. I said he has the land better than anyone else. Especially better than the people looking at it from a computer. And got to be right out and there and ill pick up and simply be able to identify what navigable waters are and waters of the us. And if we can do that, we can take a huge financial burden off of our farmers. We can create more jobs, add to our communities and were not going to, my land, every piece of it is like my house. I will not do anything to destroy or hurt my land for the water around it because i want my great great grandchildren to be able to be there. Rex senator. Stick with unanimous consent request mr. Chairman. To submit additional documents related to impacts on farming and ranching communities for the record. Without objection. And again to say to our president and witnesses, thank you for joining us today. Other members may submit questions for the record. We ask that you respond quickly. The record of this hearing will stay open for the next two weeks. I like to thank all of the witnesses for your time and testimony and is very important issue. The hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]. [inaudible conversations] taking a look at some prime time programming on cspan2 at 8 pm eastern. A form on Us Immigration policy. And the human toll of border crossings. And at eight on cspan, several africanamerican women journalists including april ryan, on their experiences covering the trump administration. Sunday night on after words black lives matter founder with her book, when they call you a terrorist. In black lives matter memoir. She is interviewed by author and journalist, as retweeted black lives matter, we knew we have to get people on board. We have to interrupt when people try to coopt black lives matter. So we spent a significant amount and challenging people in our own movement, people that we love and artists cannot say that our lives matter tonight uses to say other immunities matter. Because we are really focused on black people and to be okay and be allies and be in solidarity with black people. And then we took it to the world. Watched after words sunday 9 pm eastern on cspan2 booktv. Sunday American History t. V. On cspan3 is live beginning at 9 am eastern with allday coverage from the new museum of the bible in washington dc. With a symposium that historians exploring the bible and the founding of america. Speakers include Baylor University history professor thomas kid, author of benjamin franklin, the religious life of a founding father. American University Public affairs professor, danielle author of reading the bible with the founding fathers. And Vanderbilt University divinity professor, james byrd, author of sacred scriptures,