[inaudible conversations] welcome everybody. My name is Douglas Bradburn. And the founding director of the National Library for the George Washington and beautiful mount vernon and delighted to you all again for a wonderful evening of conversation and history and i would also like to welcome the cspan audience out there. Its great to have you back in the library. You know these evening book talks are special for a variety of reasons. We get to bring exciting new historians to an eager community here but also because it sponsored by the great donor to mt. Vernon for many many years as you all know. The association does not take any government money. Its completely private institution based on philanthropy and some people come to the estate so we depend on it in groups like the ford family and the Ford Motor Company have supported mount vernon. Henry ford did the first fire engine mt. Vernon to keep the from burning to the ground. Ongoing challenge and in fact you were welcome to the donate to our Fire Suppression efforts right now. I would like to welcome you all out here and before we begin the main event i also want to mention some Upcoming Library programs for which we still have tickets available. The great annual Martha Washington lecture featuring florida fraser and there are discussing women on both sides with lenny. Thats going to be a fantastic conversation led by her own senior curator at mt. Vernon and we have the first of three Michelle Smith lectures coming up featuring George Goodwin discussing Benjamin Franklin in london the british life of americas founding father on march 30. Thats one you definitely want to sign up for. I met george at the Benjamin Franklin house which is an extraordinary house you seem fair. He has got an extremely large personality. I think you will particularly enjoy him and his discovery of franklins life in london. Lets get to the main offense right away. We are exceptionally pleased to have with us dr. Erica Armstrong Dunbar from the university of delaware with us tonight. You have probably seen or featured in the news york times recently and many npr programs. This is where she belongs talking about a very important subject. She received her m. A. And ph. D. From Columbia University and she became the inaugural director of the program on africanamerican history at the library philadelphia. Shes the founding director. Her first book a fragile freedom, africanamerican women and emancipation published by yale extremely wellregarded in corporate studies of the understudy topic up to that point and the perfect person to take on the challenge to recover the story of ona judge. Lets give erica a big round of applause. [applause] good evening everyone. Happy black history month. Here i m. So first let me make, offer if you thank yous to Douglas Bradburn who invited me. They think there is no other place that i should be giving this talk. Can you all see me . I am vertically challenged. Lets see if this is better. I would also like to say thanks to steven emily for helping me with arrangements to arrive here. Its been a very busy week. This book just came out on tuesday of last week and so im an academic and my first book was published at Yale University press. This book is more of a crossover for a larger more general audience. So its a very different experience, one that has been rewarding but different and im a little tired so forgive me of my voice comes in and out. Ive been talking more than usual. So tonight its such a pleasure to be here, to be really cool where the story of ona judges life began in mt. Vernon. What i will do tonight is to talk a little bit. I will read a little bit to you from the book and give you a little context with some slides. There we are. Im in stereo. And to give you a little context about ona judges life and what i wanted to do with this book. About 20 years ago i was doing some research on my first book about africanamerican women in the north and i came across an advertisement for a runaway, and enslaved person who had run from the president s house in philadelphia in may of 1796. I was you know sort of caught up looking through microfilm and old newspapers and this made me pause. I said wait, who is this person who ran away . She was named ona judge in the advertisement. I thought wait a minute, i dont know this person. That was troubling to me because this is my area of expertise. Im supposed to know all of this stuff and i had no idea who this ona judge was. It was something that was very compelling about this advertisement, and it never escaped me. I said you know im going to come back to this important story that im going to try to trace this woman. I need answers so i finished the first book and here i am many years later. It was a lengthy process and attempting to recover the works in the life of anna judge. This is recover work and for those of us who view early africanamerican history doing this kind of work in archives where the evidence, the factual evidence often doesnt exist because people of color, women in particular often remain outside of the archives. What i will say is theres actually no way i could have written this book had i not written my first book so thats my plug for graduate students and people who are really doing the work of academics. I needed a grounding in order to be able to write this book about a woman who is really absolutely magnificent. When you read this book youll be blown away by her life. Many folks here in this room and of course at mt. Vernon this is no news story. We know about ona judge and you are among a small group of people who end i hope there are many more who know her. That would be the expect asian. I want her name to become one of those household names like frederick douglass, like Harriet Tubman because she runs away decades before. So the title, i will give you a quick story about the title. This is actually one of my first choices for the title of the book and i presented it to the people at the publishers and they hated it. They said youre giving away the story erica. I said gatto but so does 12 years a slave. Honestly we understand the 12 years has got to end at some point. This is really a history of how a woman who was a fugitive never found freedom. She was never free. She simply was never caught and i think its a big dissension and one that i wanted to make especially as i was trying to dismantle what we think about slavery in the south and the north at this moment where the nation is new. I think thats one of the other things i was really trying to do with this book was to allow us to see what the early days of this new country look like through the eyes of the enslaved and onas life gives us that opportunity to look at virginia, new york, pennsylvania and New Hampshire and we get to follow her life and look at how this nation is changing, how is grappling with the issue of slavery, how bees these are central issues to this new nation and this time we are doing it through a young black woman who made the choice to run away. So as i said i will read a bit. I will talk and we will look at a few slides and we will walk together on this journey. Spring rain came from the streets of philadelphia in 1796. The weather in the city of brotherly love was often fickle at this time of year vacillating between extreme cold and oppressive heat but rain the rain was almost always appreciated in the nations capital. It erased the putrid smells of rotting food, animal waste and the filth that permeated the cobblestone roads of this new nation. It reminded philadelphians that the long and punishing winter was behind them in the spring rain cleansed the streets and the souls of philadelphians. Ushered in optimism and hope and the feeling of rebirth. And in the midst of the promises of spring ona judge, a gallon black enslaved woman received devastating news. She learned that she would leave philadelphia, a city that had become her home. Judge would travel back to virginia and prepare herself to be bequeathed to her owners granddaughter. Today i will introduce one of the most understudied fugitive slaves in america. The age of 22 judge stole herself from the washingtons forcing the president to show a slave as a fugitive judge would test the president s will and his reputation. The most important man in the nation in winning the American Revolution could not read claim this enslaved woman. Ona judge did what very few others could do. Judge was never caught. Im going to show this next slide. We are here at mt. Vernon and this is one im on the road with my dog and pony show. There are of course earlier images but i always try to give this image so people have an idea of what the mansion house, where she was for such a long period of for life, for good 60 years. So of course you all work here so you dont need this. Today i will introduce what im calling, im calling her a new american hero. A slave girl raised in not burn in who once exposed the ideas of freedom and was compelled to pursue it at any cost. This was a woman who found courage to defy the president , the wit to find allies and to escape, to out negotiate, to run and to survive. Her story at this point we can tell is really the only existing lengthy account of a fugitive once held by the washingtons elites told from her mouth to interviewers. It is perhaps the only fugitive account from any slave and 18th century virginia. Her life exposes the sting of slavery come the drive of defiance. She guarded what would become sort of freedom for her every day of her life, never regretting her decision to fight for what she believed to be her right and that was freedom. In 1789 we know that washington was elected first president of the United States, traveled to new york, the nations First Capital and he and Martha Washington would take with them seven slaves for mt. Vernon. This is a sketch of federal hall where president washington would take the oath of office in new york. He would take eventually martha would make her way up to new york. She was unhappy about the move. She made that known to everyone but she went and they took seven the enslaved people with them from mt. Vernon and ona judge was one of them. She would be taken from her mother betty and her other siblings and im going to read a bit from the book. It will give you an idea of what that moment must have been like. The young ona judge was far from an experienced traveler. The teenager knew only mt. Vernon and its surroundings and it never traveled far from her family, her loved ones. For judge, the move must have been similar to the dreaded auction block. Although she was not to be sold to a different owner she was forced to leave her family for an unfamiliar destination hundreds of miles away. Judge would have no choice but to stifle the terror that she felt into go on about the work of preparing to move, folding linens, packing Martha Washingtons dresses and personal accessories and helping the grandchildren. These were all things that sub five was involved in. They were the tasks at hand and it wasnt her place to complain or question. Judge had to remain strong and steady, not for herself but for her mistress who appeared to be falling apart at the seams. Like judge, Martha Washington had no choice about the move to new york and life was at the direction of her husband who was now the most powerful man in the country. Mrs. Washington and ona judge may have shared similar concerns but of course only Martha Washington was allowed to express intent. Martha washington was unhappy and in every minute including her frightened slaves. Robert louis would be made aware of it when he arrived on may 14. Things were in disarray. Lewis who served as washingtons secretary between 1789 and 91 was chosen to escort his aunt and grandchildren to new york. He was a bit concerned when he arrived to find a frenzied and hectic scene. Lewis wrote quote everything appeared to to be in confusion end quote. The manifestation of mrs. Washingtons conflicting feelings. Robert lewis described the departure which finally take place on may 16, 1789 as an emotional moment for the slaves and the first lady. Quote after an early dinner and making all necessary arrangements in which we were greatly regarded it brought us to 3 00 and the action in when we left. The servants of the house and a number of them made an appearance to take leave of their mistress. Numbers of these poor ratchets seemed greatly agitated, much affected. My aunt, equally so. Betty, ona judges mother must have been one of those agitated slaves. Not only was she losing her 16yearold daughter but she was also losing her son austin who would serve as one of the washingtons leaders prayed austins wife charlotte and their children would have joined in the morning. That he watched her children leave mt. Vernon, a reminder of what little control slave mothers had over the lives of their children. If she found any comfort in that day it would have been that brother and sister were traveling together. Austin was older and male and could look out for his anger sister. Still, betty knew that her relationship with her children would never be the same. The washingtons will travel to new york and their visit their was relatively brief. They would leave philadelphia. November was a sight that it capital changed again. The washingtons relentless pursuit of their runaway slave, ona judge would go with the washingtons and she would be one of nine enslaved people who traveled to philadelphia. We are going to go head south to philadelphia. We dont have an image. Pretend that you see the president s house. [laughter] it was a lithograph, an image of a lithograph from the president s house which actually right now for those of you who are familiar with philadelphia because of the liberty bell and Constitution Hall the house is actually right there. I will tell you. This is sort of an aside when i was watching the preelection coverage and there was a speech given by former president barack obama and Hillary Clinton it was. In the middle of this courtyard at independence hall. And watching the visual with the crowds and what have you and off to the right was where the actual president s house stood. I thought wow here we are, im watching this moment and off to the right ona is still there. She would let me go. She followed me everywhere. February, 1796 brought a palpable unease to the executive mansion in philadelphia. A fixed tension prompted ona judge and heard slade companions to tread lightly around george and Martha Washington. Enslaved men and women always moved about with caution, not knowing what events could sour or sweden the owners mood. For the slaves who resided within the same walls as their owner life could be akin to walking through fields embedded with land mines. The smallest of matters such as the accidental breaking of a dish or an inconveniently time to bad weather could alter the disposition of an owner. Although the president did not earn the reputation as being a violent or physically punishing slaveowner he did on occasion lose his temper. Ona judge moved or her daily task of the persons house with his smooth watchfulness, perhaps attending to Martha Washingtons extra care as she helped her dress for the day. For seven years judge had served her mistress well up north. She became Martha Washingtons closest body slave. All though the washingtons on a personal level were familiar with judge where she often accompanied her mistress unsocial calls since moving to new york and then philadelphia the first ladys life was filled with socializing and public events. Its important to realize that this relationship between mistress and enslaved person at least in terms of ona is a very intimate relationship. Not necessarily in the best of ways but ona was around Martha Washington constantly helping her with the most intimate responsibilities, dressing, bathing, combing hair and she heard everything that went on in the executive mansion. Judge understood her mistress. She knew just how much Martha Washington loved her grandchildren. She had outlived every single one of her children fathered by her first husband. Martha washington had no choice but to look towards her grandchildren for hope and enjoyment and although she was only 27 years old when she married George Washington their marriage never yielded offspring offspring. After the death of her son john, martha and George Washington welcomed two of his small children into their home raising them up to adulthood and i think thats a really interesting thing to think about the Intergenerational Community that was actually there from the beginning of the first president. Judge must have witnessed shock and concern of her owners after they read through the mail on february 6. The president received a letter from a liza, his 19yearolds that grandchild and farming her grandparents of her intention to marry. Eliza wrote of her engagement to thomas law a british businessman who came to america only in 1794. And became involved in Land Development and around the federal city. Lott met a liza who was 20 years his junior and a romance turned to engagement. Elizas father was deceased and in some ways George Washington stood in as one of the appropriate surrogates to approve or reject the marriage proposal. The news must have sent the executive mansion into a tailspin. Although this is very personal Family Business everyone glued within the halls of the persons house knew exactly was what was happening and its interesting when we read some of the letters john adams writes about, as an interesting situation this relationship that a liza and law were entering into. There were questions about who this thomas law was and they write rex holmes about the situation. Neither george r. With Martha Washington knew about the seriousness of the relationship between eliza and law. There was much to be concerned about. Law arrived in america with two or three children come both of whom are the offspring of a relationship with an indian woman. They were biracial. His biracial children at this age most certainly raise the eyebrows of the washingtons. There were also concerned that he might decide to go back to england and could take eliza with him. Ona judge watched her owners feel their way to the dramatic events of 1796. Martha washingtons concern was to turn to optimism because by the end of the much began to publicly announced the upcoming matrimony. She moved through her fear, her concerning her anger for not knowing about this and began to think about it in the most positive way possible. Ona judge had no idea that the acceptance of the marriage by both george and Martha Washington would begin the unraveling of her life. So eliza custis married elijah law and the marriage signaled the beginning of major changes for the washington sand for their slaves. Judge most certainly knew that her time in philadelphia was limited. By the march wedding, a liza, close family knew that George Washington would not run again for president. This was no secret in the executive mansion and eventually all of their lives would change once they returned to mt. Vernon vernon. The idea of reconnecting with loved ones in virginia must have given them many of the slaves reason to celebrate the judge had lived in the north for seven years and the thought of returning to mt. Vernon did not settle well. A return to mt. Vernon was a reminder to judge and her enslaved companions that they were considered the property of another person. And after living in a free Northern City this was a difficult concept to swallow. For ona judge however the answer he vanished as her date was revealed that its important to realize that ona judge comes to philadelphia as a teenager. She is 16, 17 years old and she spent her formative years in philadelphia watching free black philadelphians grow. She watched Richard Alley and. Shes free black men and women selling fruit on the streets. They were entrepreneurs and it wasnt necessarily easy but she saw freedom. She could almost feel it, taste it, smell it. She would go to the theaters. These are things you would never have been able to do in virginia. And then with the marriage of a liza she realizes that her fate was revealed. This marriage change life circumstances and cut judges residency in new york shortly like the slaves in the executive mansion ona would not return to philadelphia from her sojourn to mt. Vernon. Judge would not be around to witness the president s final months in office. Martha washingtons deep concern for her granddaughter becomes any relationship that she may have forged with judge. Sensing that eliza had entered into a marriage for which he was unprepared the first lady made a decision and of course its not use until later on in the 19th century but i do use it as part of this narrative that i have offered. The first lady made a decision that would help her granddaughter navigates through the transition of marriage. She would give ona judge to eliza custis. Although judge had earned the top spot among arthur washingtons personal slaves there was no way for judge to amass enough personal or emotional capital to condense her owner to change her mind. Judges fate was now and the hands of a liza law a woman who is approximately the same age and was known for having difficult and sometimes a temper. Id show an image because it gives us an idea of eliza. She was a force to be reckoned with. Sometimes i think maybe she got a little bit of a bad rap but her family wrote about her temper and this would have been something that ona judge was familiar with. A shift to the household of the irritable and volcanic eliza custis, law would most likely doomed judge to a life of poor treatment and uncertainty and she certainly couldnt let that happen. Going to read another passage from the book to give you an idea of what that moment was like for her. Judge new what the future held should she not heed the advice of her free black associates. She supposed she went back to virginia she would never have the chance to escape. Once she learned upon the disease of her master and mistress she would become the property of a granddaughter by the name of custis she knew that she had to flee. She imagined that her work for the laws would begin immediately, not after the death of her owners. A fierce clarity about her future and her dislike for eliza eliza custis law. In her interview than of her life she said quote she was determined never to be her slave. Her decision was made. She would risk everything to avoid that touches of the new mrs. Law. Judge was wellinformed and knew that her decision to flee was far more than risky but still she was willing to face dog sniffing kidnappers for the rest of her life. Judge could no longer stomach earned slave meant and it was the change of her ownership that pulled the trigger on judges fury. She had given everything to washington for 12 years. She had served her mistress faithfully and now she was to be discarded like a scrap of material that sheikh cut from Martha Washingtons addresses. Any false illusion she had clung to have evaporated and judge new no matter how obedient or loyal she may have appeared to her owners she would never be considered fully human. Her fidelity meant nothing to the washington. She was their property to be sold, mortgaged or traded with whomever they wished. The beast that lives in every slave sole was awakened confronting a future with elijah law coaxed the hunger for freedom out of the resources of judges minded now she was willing to fight for what she clearly believed to be her right right, her decision to run was just the beginning of her liberation. The waiting was difficult. For nearly two weeks judge had to calm her nerves and suppress her anger as allies completed the planning for her escape. Judge worked in tandem with the rest of the household has been made to necessary preparations for a trip back to mt. Vernon. While they were packing to go to virginia i was packing to go. I didnt know where for a knew if i went back to virginia i never should get my liberty. Judge kept her plans a secret baking certain not to share information with anyone who lived in a mansion. She knew that fearful or jealous slaves were often responsible for foiled fugitive escapes. She decided to rely on the assistance of free blacks resided outside of the walls of the president s home. Not only did ona judge have to pack her things to leave she also had to determine when she would escape. Although the executive mansion possessed a more slaves and servants than did most residences judge was the first ladys preferred house lady and had to be available at all times for whatever reason. There was only one duty from which she was exempt, meal preparation. The famed kitchen staff prepared all the meals served to the president in and the first family. Judge sometimes received a bit of free time during the afternoon meals and evening supper. As other servants or slaves were assigned to serve the washingtons the president sometimes entertain guests extending the best liberties into the evening and inviting guests to retire to the parlor to enjoy additional conversation. This is the only moment that judge could use to her advantage. When the moment arrived she gathered her steely nerve and fled. On saturday may 21, 1796 ona judge slipped out of the executive mansion while the washingtons aid their supper. She disappeared into the Free Black Community in philadelphia. Although we have, judge makes his decision to leave one thing that i want people to understand about the lives of fugitives is to remember that the plan to escape and to leave was almost always strategic and planned. It wasnt typically a whim or emotional and in the case of ona judge we have the same thing. In effect her escape would be careful and calculated. She knew that the moment she walked out of the president s mansion at her status as a trusted house slave for the most powerful American Family would immediately come to in and. No longer would judge be the favored slave of her mistress. Instead she would be a fugitive. On may 23, 1796 frederick hits the household store to George Washington placed an ad in the philadelphia gazette and for the week after her disappearance there were at least two newspapers, the daily american advertiser which we have up here as well as the philadelphia gazette. This is the moment that i tell my students you cant believe everything you see on wikipedia because for the longest time the ad was attributed to the pennsylvania gazette. And for a week they ran advertisements to attempt to recapture ona judge. In the philadelphia gazette we have this adds that describes ona judge announced to the world that she had defied the president. For one of the ads up scones and from the household of the president of the United States on saturday afternoon. Only judge and i contended she was called and written about as ona judge. Here in mt. Vernon and new york it was a diminutive of her name and tonight she was to call her ona which is the name she went by the end of her life. Only judge of light mulatto girl much freckled with black eyes and bushy black bear chief of liberal stature slandered gallegly made about 20 years of age. This one offers a 10dollar per board which is about the cost of a barrel of flour at that time. Another interesting thing to note is that this advertisement offers the reward and very clear as they say this 10 will be paid to anyone, white or black in the first ads that appear. Subsequently that language was taken out which i thought was interesting but clearly this was a play to the Free Black Community who did something about onas escape. Frederick hits add alerted people to judges probable escape route the delaware river. In this advertisement hits sent a strong warning to anyone who worked on the dock at philadelphia said busiest ports mag issue may attempt to escape by water on vessels are cautioned against admitting her into them. Hits assumptions were correct. Judge did leave the city by vote. A combination of preparation, assistance from the black community, steely nerves pushed the trusted enslaved woman to begin her life anew as a fugitive and a point in the book i move into this transition from ona judge hasnt enslaved woman in virginia new york and philadelphia to becoming a fugitive and her life changes instantly the moment she walks out of that door. It begins on her voyage to New Hampshire. I will read just a bit. The crashing waves of the Atlantic Ocean pearls settles in candles from one side of the storage hold to another. The smell of molasses and coffee were thick. Nauseated passengers were unaccustomed to frequent trips between philadelphia and new york and portsmouth. Transportation in the 18th century was never easy and traveling by sea could be dangerous. The poorly inspected ships swept in and out of cities with torn sails and whether caulking hoping to make it to the next port without incident. Ona judge who had never before sailed on such a ship, a single mast that could carry up to 75 people depending on the size of the cargo. Vessels were designed to haul freight from one coastal town to the next but ship captains earned extra money by allowing passengers to ride along. And the seafaring voyage is the judge might have taken with the washingtons would have been close to enjoyable. Sure river crossings in relatively look serious nationals luxurious vessels were what judge had become to now but she turned her back on all that. Now on board the ship was minimal and Travelers Lodge themselves wherever there was room. Once again the fugitive found herself sleeping in tight quarters but this time it was with strangers. Some who were traveling home to visit with family and friends and others who like judge, were leaving behind a difficult past for the possibilities of a new future in portsmouth. The unsettled sea likely forced judges, to turn somersault sending her to look for refuge from najaf above deck. The maids would offer temporary relief from seasickness. Surely other passengers suffered the same way hanging their bodies over the sides, releasing the contents of their stomachs into the atlantic. Every morning when the sun lifted itself above the horizon judge would have looked out across the ocean thankful to have survived another day away from her owners but still she was terrified. For five days judge contained her fear. She could not appear too nervous as passengers were already throwing quick and curious glances toward the lightskinned lack woman who travel alone. She knew the washingtons were looking for her and by now her name and a bounty probably appeared in many of the philadelphia newspapers. She wondered how much of a reward was attached to her recapture, thought that sent her eyes to scan the strangers on board. Surely none of the washingtons agents had made it aboard ship before it left dock street but she wouldnt know this for certain until it reached New Hampshire. The beautiful expensive core bathers she wore to serve the washingtons is packed away and instead judge would have dressed in inconspicuous clothing allowing her to hide in plain sight. She was a hunted woman and would try to pass not for white but as a free black more than woman. Ona would have to fight to stay free. The washingtons with pursue her for years up until really three months before the president died died. For years, ona had to try to figure out how to remain never caught. I want to show a few of the kind of archival tidbits that i was able to pull while i was working on this project for nine years. The researching and writing took almost a decade and during my process of researching i kind of span this moment word digitization was just starting so newspapers are digitized now and it sort of sped things up is the one along. This is one of those newspapers that i looked through early on in my project and this is another one of those jump for joy moments when you actually find what you are looking for in the archives. Of course this is an announcement, a marriage announcement. In this town to ona judge. What i find so incredible about this, couple of things. One this is january of 1797 so she hasnt been gone but seven months, eight months or so and it now time she is able to find a husband. Not only did she find a husband, but she didnt go by an alias when she got married and had to. Reporter the paper about this marriage. This is also another note for graduate scholars who are happy about digitization. Just to see this image is important. We see this as sort of an act of her life, her and if you pull out the whole page, the front page of this newspaper was George Washingtons announcement to the fair people of New Hampshire thinking them for being citizens as he prepared to depart. What is hilarious to me is we have George Washington making the statement to the great people of New Hampshire and the column next to it is marthas slave just ran away. Looking at the entire document gives you a better sense for the kind of resistance we see coming from ona judge whether she meant to be that much of her resisting person we dont know. Ona judge would make her way to freedom or relative freedom. She would live out her days will in and around greenland New Hampshire and she invaded washingtons slave catching acquaintances for the entirety of her life. She managed to build a family for herself. She married, she had children, she worked as a domestic until the end of her days. Although she endured the trials of poverty and fugitive status until her death, judge moved forward. Her life was a difficult one but freedom was worth it. I will show you my last slide of the evening. It is one of the first interviews that sub five grants. Im not going to tell you everything because you got to buy the book and you betcha read the book. I do want to give everything away but this book is called never caught so we know therell be some some tension and drama while shes New Hampshire. This article which was an abolitionist newspaper appeared in may of 1845 and it was at this point, ona judge was in her early to mid70s. She granted an interview and i wouldnt necessarily call sub subabolitionist. Im not sure that she saw herself as such. She simply was asked to tell her story and one thing that ive noticed as i spent time with my own mother and i spent time with my grandparents the older you get the more likely you are to say exactly whats on your mind without much filter. I think we have a bit of that here with ona judges interview. She explains why she ran away, how she ran away and why was important but also she didnt regret it even though her life was terribly difficult. She never regretted it. She would spend nearly 50 years as a fugitive and the children that she had were also fugitives because slavery followed the Apron Strings of the mother. So the stakes are even higher once ona went to New Hampshire and attempted to remain as never caught. For 50 years she was a fugitive hiding but im certain that she never wanted to be forgotten. With the publication of this book everyone will now know her name. Thank you. [applause] so i think we are going to do some q a and we have to microphones station on either side of the room. Thank you for a fascinating talk. A good question about descendents and oral history. How do i say this without giving away part of the story . The descendents directly related to ona judge dont exist but there are descendents connected to her half siblings and there has been some correspondence between the library and some of the folks who claim to be descendents. I actually purposely chose not to go embark up that tree although maybe thats a second project, i dont know. But we do have is a record of some of her half siblings and what happens to them once ona leads in one of her siblings sister was in philadelphia. Philadelphia is actually forced to take onas place and she goes to work for a liza custis law. You have to buy the book and i dont want to tell you everything. As an epilogue at the end that explains a thing poignantly how we have two examples of women in the early 19th century who were trying to find freedom. We have ona doing it as a fugitive and as youll see in the book we have her sister attempting to do it another way so it gets us back to this issue of women attempting to fight for their freedom. There is a story there. Philadelphia marries a man named William Acosta and becomes a wellknown family in washington d. C. I will just go ahead and tell you that philadelphia does find her freedom. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the Free Black Community in philadelphia and the ways they might have been planning to assist her . Its a great question about the community of free blacks in philadelphia and how they came to her aid. I think one of the important things about this story, this history is that it highlights the importance of networks and in particular of communities, free people of color. Philadelphia in the 1790s was the epicenter of free black live live. Outpaced new york. The gradual end of slavery began in 1780 in pennsylvania with the gradual abolition law that stated you could only be held as a slave for up to 20 years. We saw some elongation of that in some instances but really where ona judge lives was very close to many free blacks. We have thousands of free blacks living in and around philadelphia. One thing thats important to note is that ona judge never named names and she cant. She cant do that for fear of reprisal that those who helped her may of roe can the federal law. They could be imprisoned or fined so she just simply refer to them as free people of color or the people of philadelphia. A couple of historians including myself believe that Richard Allen known for creation was likely involved in some way or another in her escape. He was known for assisting fugitives and interestingly enough the account books held at the philadelphia executive mansion a week before ona runs off comments noted that she was given money to buy new shoes. If you are going to run away you need new shoes but one thing to remember is that Richard Allen is a chimney sweep. He served the household of the president cleaning out the chimneys their pay perhaps they interacted but not for certain and he also had a shoe shop in his home. He was a sort of jack of all trades. Some of us, newman who wrote the biography of Richard Allen believed that there was some kind of connection between her and Richard Allen. We also see outside of philadelphia this growing free black population who clearly helped her. The only person she names as john who is a ship master. I was able to, because she named his name and she makes it very clear in her interview that she was only naming his name because she knew he was deceased so he wouldnt get in trouble. But it was very clear that following the ship reports in philadelphia, his ship was in philadelphia at exact to the time that ona judge ran away and made it back to portsmouth in the beginning of june. Thats the way figured out by looking at ship advertisements. Clearly the Free Black Community was involved with her and her fugitives before becoming a fugitive. This same holds true in New Hampshire and shes very clear that she gets help and assistance from the free black population. The population was so when she arrives in portsmouth there were more like people in mt. Vernon than there were in portsmouth. Portsmouth is a lovely city and ive spent a lot of time there intensely gorgeous but my first thought when i realize she wasnt portsmouth i was like portsmouth, white portsmouth . She was unknown entity and a face that was recognizable. Perhaps the same was true for boston. She said she didnt know in her interviews where she was going. Its likely those free black people that helped her didnt tell her for fear of problems that perhaps she would be found out that she actually doesnt know where shes going until she disembarks. Once she gets to New Hampshire she finds the Free Black Community there who harbor her and to give her housing and food and help her find work and really keep her safe. Every time one of washingtons agents or family members came after her they always sheltered her, harbored her, hate her so i think yet a part of what this book does is show the importance of her Free Black Community in the end that the 18th and beginning of the 19th century. A few years ago i read a wonderful Childrens Book to my daughter about ona judge. The part of the project . No, if it was diane turner she has written a Childrens Book. I wasnt a part of that but i know her work and im glad, i think they were two Childrens Books about ona judge. Now there is some interest about a young adult version so i am working on that. Stay tuned. That slide you have out there right now, that you did have up there said something to the effect that she didnt remember what year it was and im kind of surprised at that. You would think it would be burned in her memory. Yale. It would be burned in ones memory. I will let you sneak in and i will come off and just talk louder. I think we also have to think about history and memory and especially an interview at the end of ones life. Although she gave us pretty good details she does say look i cant remember the year. I think thats true i dont think thats too difficult to wrap our minds around because i know personally i cant remember what happened last week let alone what your things happened in. I think she wanted to provide an interview that was credible as possible but she didnt lie. In some ways i kind of appreciated that she doesnt. She says i cant remember i dont know when i think about that 50 years as a fugitive at a time as a fugitive when remembered she couldnt read or write and she doesnt become literate until the end of her life. I think its very possible that she doesnt remember. I appreciate the honesty. Did the pursuit of judge continue after the washingtons past on . She said no. She never states that anyone else from marthas side of the family came after her. When we think about it we know that Martha Washington, her estate was transferred to her grandchildren set technically ona judge would have belonged to one of them. Now i look to the inventory of the enslaved for all the grandchildren. She is not noted anywhere on those lists and in some ways i think they just sort of gave up. Its sort of a fascinating story because her grandchildren had moved in separate ways about slavery. George washington becomes involved in the american colonization. Eliza custis law, some of her slaves were emancipated so its almost like a different story that we move into in the 19th century and it captures this transition between the end of 18th and early 19th century. I found a record of it in ona did not mention the possibility of an attempted capture by any of the grandchildren. I think thats an important point but she was pursued for at least three years. We know from the moment that she runs away and tell the death of George Washington she is pursued pursued. One of the things i think we have to remember is even though there wasnt a sort of physical attempts to capture her she knew she was still their property and as long as slavery existed in the United States she would she was eyes at risk. I do think its important to note that the grandchildren did not appear to go after her. Maybe some document will fall out of the desk somewhere and tell me a different story and if that happens im excited, not worried. She clearly always knew that she was a fugitive and that was the fear that rang true to her and her children. Erica this is really good work you have done here. Ive question for you. Did on that give any insight into George Washingtons planning of capital city . Is there any insight based on societies and do you have any information . I wish she had. We have really just two interviews from her and the information that she gives about George Washington and Martha Washington really their fault around religion because it was clear that she ona became religious when she was a fugitive. She became literate and we are not certain if she could write or not. She talks more about religion. She talked about the desire to not go to the granddaughter. She talks about the fact that she never regretted the decision but she didnt give us the kind of intricacies of what was going on and i find that kind of fascinating. Think about it, she lived with them for so long. She was there. She witnessed the difficult moments but she never went there. She didnt give up a bad kind of personal information. She took a few jabs at the washingtons but give her a break. She is a fugitive. She has a right to she questioned whether not George Washington was really religious. She said i really never saw him pray. He went to church but he didnt pray so that understanding about religion from her viewpoint but she doesnt give us those intricacies. I do talk a little bit about and occur in the book but just as a way to give context for what the early era of the United States look like. I find it interesting that you started your research on a mouthpiece announcement. You really werent looking for it at the time and then you hit the jack pot by finding the interview and i was wondering was that part of yearlong process when he did that or what led you to find the interview . Yale, that is a jack pot. As a historian i think i can say say, i dont know what i would call it a jack pot. I feel like this recovery work is so important and to have the story out for a large audience is the same. I didnt necessarily and i will be honest here. I am on cspan. I will be honest here. I didnt know i would actually be able to find it enough to write a book about ona but there were Childrens Books so maybe there was a chapter here and there in a couple of important biographies on washington but no books about her. When i first started to read it i said why is there nothing on her . Then i realized how long it took to do this research and there was no monograph dedicated to her because materials are slim. Thats another reason why i said before that i couldnt have done this had i not written a fragile freedom which taught me everything about early philadelphia and new york and sort of allowed me to ground this book in those communities and for people in the atmosphere of the streets and also what slavery looked like in philadelphia and new york and then of course portsmouth. So at first i didnt know if i would be able to write a whole book and this time kept moving i realized i can, and she deserves it. Thea what can you tell us about onas husband and i noticed in the wedding announcement that the last name was spelled with the g at the beginning rather than the j and i was wondering if i was an attempt to maintain anonymity and secrecy . The question was about her husband who also went by john sometimes. What i found out about him was he was afraid lack man. He was a sailor, a seaman and that was a typical Employment Opportunity for black men because opportunities were few and far between. Black men tipped lee had to look to the seas to earn a living. Sometimes it was sporadic money to get all of your money at once and that was sort of the jack pot for you brought home your earnings and was also very dangerous work. The minute you left portsmouth or philadelphia or what have you in sale to other locations are reagan was always in jeopardy. To think about ona to the she was marrying a sailor and she knew that he would be away for long periods of time so that the protection that many look for through marriage in terms of having a male, i spend our spouse who could help especially if freed person. She spent a lot of time alone. At first when i was working on the book it disappeared from her family. It kind of fell off the face of beer soaked took me a long time to track down what happened so i didnt bring an image of this but i had another one of those moments when i found it death is for him and said jack staines a man of color dye to this day. I wondered how he died. Did he leave ona judge . Was their marital tension and we know that she is alone after 1804. Why is that but that little death announcement in the fact that they offered one for him as a black man was also significant significant. I was able to find that a piece that together about him. I dont know anything about the beginning. I just know that he was afraid black man, married on and they had children. The marriage was relatively short before he died in once again kind of leading ona to live for herself. If stremm meant in the she stays away. Shes never caught that life was really very difficult and it was the same way for ona as it was for many of the other slaves in fugitives who were living in New Hampshire. We are passing the mic down. C thank you for all this wonderful information. My question is as a fugitive was there any physical description of her . Actually aside from the advertisement and we get a description of her as a young woman because shes about 22 when she runs off and it kind of confirms what i know about her back around. It describes her as lighter did. Later on there were several accounts by local folks in portsmouth who wrote their recollections that she made it into, eventually she becomes known in portsmouth as the slave who ran away from washington so people would come to the cottage where she lives and she was pretty povertystricken. Sometimes they would give her a dollar and she would tell them about her story. I have seen her describes from very light complected to almost white to copper. In our descriptions about her, not about her children at about her. We have this image. Once again its a fugitive you wouldnt want people to necessarily know what you look like or at least to keep talking about it. C can we do one more . Thank you. Just this past weekend we were fortunate enough to go to the black History Museum and we only made it through a few floors. If we go back will there be any mention of own it ona judge . I gave a talk at the museum when the book came out. I wish there was but there wasnt. The exhibits can change and maybe that will happen but one thing that is great is they are carrying the book in the bookstore is. It might not be an exhibit but you can always find the book in the bookstore. I think that has to do with a lack of the material culture connected to ona because as i said before she was a fugitive and she left very little behind. If you go to that magnificent museum there is harriet tubbs mudsill tashaud nat turners bible. We have these remnants from other famous displaced people but we dont have anything in the way of material culture that can be produced. However the exhibit here made it happen. Without the material culture piece theres definitely an engagement with ona judge. She is representative but hopefully that will make it into the grand building. Erica thank you so much. Lets give her a round of applause. [applause] thank you. Senate that was really fantastic fantastic. You are not allowed to go yet. We will require her to stay and sign everybodys book. Im sure you will buy multiple copies. I do appreciate what you said about the exhibit here because when we had the slavery conference, it was open a week and i was curious to see how the scholars would respond to it. Do you want to say anything else else . I was one of those at the conference and its a stunning exhibit. And a lot packed in. I think it signals a moment for mt. Vernon thats really important but it very difficult contexts. And to throw yourself into it and connect the first president with the contradictions the hypocrisy and also looking at him as a man and his idea about changing slavery of her time im super appreciative but that makes it into the exhibit. Ive actually only heard comments about the exhibit and i havent seen it and definitely an honest error. Thank you so much. Lets give her another big round of applause. [applause] thank you cspan. Goodnight everybody. You can buy the books right out the door there. Join steven right over there. [inaudible conversations]