Black man in a white coat comes out in september of 2015. The author is dr. Damon tweedy. You are watching booktv on cspan2. You are watching booktv on cspan2 are next retired u. S. Army general Stanley Mcchrystal talking about how lessons you learn on the battlefield can be applied to the professional world. On behalf of Comcast Spotlight it is my privilege to introduce you to todays special guest general Stanley Mcchrystal and Chris Fussell. So those Successful Organizations in the u. S. Are working with Mcchrystal Group to understand and compete in a more complex environment. Their new book, team of teams new rules of engagement, focuses on Team Leadership with emphasis on empowering others, engaging employees, managing through technology and leading in a time of increasing complications. General Stanley Mcchrystal cofounded Mcchrystal Group in january 2011 to deliver Innovative Leadership Solutions to american businesses in order to help them transform and succeed in challenging, dynamic environment. I retired 4star general, general mcchrystal is a former commander of both the u. S. And International Security Assistance Forces afghanistan. And the nations premier military counterterrorism force, joint special Operations Command. Chris fussell is the chief of Network Management at Mcchrystal Group leading the sales, marketing and client relation teams. He served as aide to general mcchrystals final year amending the joint special Operations Command where he witnessed firsthand the special operations communities transformation into a successful agile network. Today, general mcchrystal and Chris Fussell what does modern military action, the islamic state, and how these lessons really do apply to the world of business. Please join me in welcoming general Stanley Mcchrystal and Chris Fussell. [applause] gentlemen, good morning and thank you for honoring us with your presence. Certainly appreciate your years and years of service and leadership on behalf of the country. Congratulation on the new book, and id like to get a bit more about it, and heres why. People at the Senior Leadership levels of the military dont necessarily make easy transitions to the Business World. And i tell you after reading more and more about the navy seals, it reaffirms my decision not to be a navy seal. [laughter] not that that was ever an option, but chris, im reading about all of the training, all of the training, all of the training. And in my mind becoming a navy seal was meant to be the olympic athlete. It was meant to be for the best of the best as related to the physical specimen. Theres a physical part but its clear you and the joe put this together with your team that is much more about teamwork. So forgive the informal nature of the discussion this morning but i would like to start with you about the essence of the navy seals and the dependency is seemingly more about team and less about this sharp shooter individual. Sure if this. We just two examples in the book to talk about the stereotypes of not just the navy seals, a special operation commute in general which is gotten attention over the last decade or so. The ongoing conflict. The reality is and what we try to bring out in the book is what makes the script so effective is not the sort of elite nature of individual. Theres a certain bar that one must pass to get into these groups but what made it so effective on the battlefield and contested is really the integration of all these strong personality into a cohesive team. And for us and other special operation units it starts at a small level. How do you integrate all this process to make an Effective Team on the battlefield. That was a tradition for many years. What we face overseas and what general mcchrystal oversaw was how do we scale the effectiveness of all these small teams onto a global level enterprise so that we can really defeat a globally connected network enemy which was a new type of conflict. So you create a team, seals, rangers, special forces. You create a team of experts, just the highest of the high. Button on the teams i think they cannot particularly good teammate a sort of washed out. Now youre left with a team, a high performing team. And in the Business World we may have high performing teams but we dont let him perform. We micromanage the its an interesting approach. General, within this book on a team of teams that could of had a subtext that said how not to micromanage them, instead trust your team get if all the time, all these resources and training creating a trustworthy team, where is this disconnect that people are not trusting been in a to let them do it . Is sometimes misunderstood because you can have teams that have these extraordinary capabilities. Pic your favorite commando movie. The bridge under river kwai with a go, pick and this group of commandos gets sent somewhere and in this adventure somewhere along the way they meet a beautiful woman and they go and they blow something up. Wanted to then get back allies. To think about is you see that and you think all of the power is in a little group, the interaction between the. Theres truth in that once they launch on this operation if the ideas okay, they are pretty autonomous. Thats not todays world. Todays world is this wonderful cohesive small group that can do extraordinary things with precision and all, cannot do it if theyre part of this network larger team that can get the information that they need in very rapid, consummate guide to what youre doing, then respond to what they find on the target. Tonight we killed zarqawi we didnt have time for two nephews. We killed them. That night we did 17 more raids. To take advantage of what we have learned from doing that operation to the only way you can do that this if h if you gos team of teams that are just absolutely connected. Not just by Information Technology but connected by relationships and whatnot so you get somebody call the seals and say okay, this is what we know, go. Absolutely on trust but on this deep connectivity that you built between the teams suddenly have the ability to operate. A leader cannot micromanage about. A leader might think that they can and are some people here, probably not here, but some people the might of multiple smart phones, two or three computers. You have this ability to all this information here so good you can micromanage your vast enterprisenterpris e it but i would say i couldnt. I used to sit in operations in every 12 screens into. Chris would be there. We could have 12 operations going on all at the same time. I could see everyone of them because from a predator you get full motion of the deal. And then you could talk to them if you wanted but the reality is you cant micromanage to get all you can do is be aware of it, get smart about and pump information down so that organically the organizations manage is itself. Spit so they are still knocking on your door late at night same general, may i, gender, could we . If we do this, and then you, your processing all this. You must be loving being a leader. Theyre knocking on the door at 3 a. M. Theyre asking for permission. Or really redoing things to you and way of of saying give me the intelligence, what is your recommendation . Which is a wonderful approach. One step further, im not adding value to this equation. Im not sure if youre upsetting the apple cart as much in business or in a military, or both. You really did ramp it up within this work and id like to a bit more about those middle of the night knocks on the doors but then what from that made you think this would be good for business . And just a little bit of background to we take command of an organization, just like when you move into a new job anywhere, you want is irrelevant as quickly as you can. The first time the country and take a great leader, heres a problem to make a decision. The temptation is you want to make a decision because you want to be relevant. I was a Major General at this time. I take command to first task for any company with approval for every operation. I do that thing where you look, and act like your thinking because you have no clue. Then you say yes or no. They would do this every one thing in our requirement is that every time we want to drop a bomb on a terrorist leader, go someplace and you could get to, they had to come to get my approval. We went to bed just about done because we fought all my to go to bed at dawn, about an hour later they would look at the later they would look at the sky and coming to knock on my door. I lived in a plywood huge and they would say we want to drop a bomb on joe bag of donuts. Im 50 plus years of old. I havent got much sleep. I get on the side of my blog and look at the slides, aerial photographs and all i got. Ill ask them a couple of questions and that i was a do you think we should do it . They said well, we just woke you up. What do you think . And i would give this thing, okay, to forth and do it. My value add was zero. Because they are the ones ive gotten this latest information, they were on the ground and get it slowed it down because they had this operation. If they have to wake me up and get me to opine for a while, that is just slow the process. I asked them why they did it . They said that our process, thats our requirement. I said stop it. Stop asking me. Just do it. They say, but we have to because you are responsible. Is that im always responsible. It doesnt matter. Just stop it now. Is what were going to do so. Im going to give you every bit of information you have, turn it toward you and im going to talk to you how i think about these operations so you know in terms of big strategy at all these things, these are the things that go through my mind and you just put them in your mind and make a decision. A lot of people came to me and said this is dangerous, you have younger people making decisions, make more mistakes. The reality is we not only didnt make more mistakes and we got much faster obviously, but Something Else happened. They owed it. Think about it. If somebody comes to you and says should we do a or b. And you say be and it goes badly, ago boss had a bad day. But if you look at them and say use your best judgment, tell me what you did. They walk away saying ive got to be thoughtful on this. That was helpful in our world. He did another thing me but it opened the stage. It stop me from being in the weeds on those things and allowed me to be a little bit more thinking about wider issues. Chris, when you lay this book other upright at different episodes, some of them are airliner created as relates to a crash of a jetliner or landing a plane in the hudson river. The other episodes that were very specific military but teen, teen, teen gets in the steadily right from the start. Talk to us although they did they would about the team concept because you hearing from the generals, the way youre brought up in a military was commanding control. How much does it will turn things on its head or is it kind of the flavor of the day . For us what we knew really well was in our dna was the creation of effective small teams. We draw examples from team to team with this is not uncommon if you look inside any Successful Organization and go down to the ground level. You will find effective small teams. To stand support, the problem we face is how do you scale sadly between these different styles of which all these small things operate. For us and what we see in industry is when you go up a level or two levels and when you get to the senior level you are looking at radically different tribes inside of these different silos the it was the case in military. Talk about integrating sort of legacy of the seal team culture in with the army ranger culture, and with air force culture and then expanding out into all the interagency teams would work with, fbi, cia, et cetera. Everyone we found, had to realize we are not going to win this conflict if we keep fighting as a set of small teams. Now to really integrate with one another im going to have to accept the fact you might look at the problem differently, you would have a much different culture to treat people, how you engage with the conflict, how the problem looks to you. And for us to get across that boundary where to develop true collaborative sharing base, trustbased relationships which, of course, broke years of bureaucratic design. It changes the entire org chart. Thats not overlap, does not duplication of that but its the relationships, the key interdependencies. Hit on the interdependency repeatedly, that the seals, bute police dont necessarily work as well with the fire, the army doesnt always play as well with the navy. The seals maybe not always with the rangers, and then he drove very hard to make sure that they understood that they were in the same family, that they were into dependencies and they could share. They could have relationships. One thing oneupsmanship but how did that work in the Operations Side of things . General, how does that work from your perspective of pushing a new culture speak with what it felt like underground was a to go back to some of the earlier days, 2003, 2004 when we first started to get our heads around this problem, add an isolated team focused until the. Gavgetting myspace, and, tell me which want to accomplish a become we did, success in those pockets but then to the transition and connect the line she realized the onus is on the to form relationships with the person is maybe two or three lanes over on the battlefield. The way general mcchrystal was running your position created this broad sense of accountability. As the system matured and we see the same thing happened in industry, people are low and midlevel realize i am incentivized to get ahead of the thought process of the Senior Leadership on the ground because now i am empowered, i have the accountability. Its up to the tikrit the relationships and im coming to Senior Leadership with complex Solutions Rather than constantly requesting permission. You obviously are a student of military history, general. You go back to admiral nelson. You have a great example their of the chips. You have drawn on a lot of business, the entire manufacturing process and how that was revolutionized. And then you find yourself, take a sort of agile is get brought up and you about the revolution work and the minutemen, the guys lined up with the red coats and hanging out entries in going after them and they are lined up sitting ducks. You sort of felt like we were sitting ducks. The working, if you will, had changed, and we were not ahead. Now we have more technology, better this, but at the end of this. But boy, theres a heck of a peace in your what it catches you deadly, we are not what we need to be the can you expand on that . If you go back to military history the challenge was to get a group of people trained and outfitted correctly to the right place at the right time and you needed mass because each person didnt have much combat power project to get this vast army from point a to point the which major to be organized and disciplined and changed the command because it had to be predictable. If you said this yet to be able to protect what the effects would be. We went on to the and to get through first world war, Second World War incredibly mechanical wars in many ways. But if you are bi big enough and youre efficient if you could win because he built a bigger machine, a more awesome machine, you crush your enemy. Thats essentially what happened. Probably the apogee was the first gulf war. When im over there essential it was clear that Saddam Hussein put his army on a golf tee and to let us up on it because every strength we had he played to which was extraordinary. We got this feeling that we had come advanced technology that they did have, local positioning system, precision strike weapons, night vision, unmanned aerial vehicles. We have this technological overmatched and we have is organizational overmatched in better trained, organized, more efficient. Sounds pretty good. We go into iraq in the fall, or the spring of 2003, and that works. It works beautifully. But then within about six weeks you start to see the situation in iraq deteriorated for lots of reasons. Then in the early all, late summer early fall you start to see alqaeda and to richard and with the ipod with Saddam Hussein and his followers but it wasnt. It was the arrival of alqaeda under zarqawi to leverage the frustrations and the sunni population to create a terrorist insurgency. Put those two things together and shut this thing grow. Normally that would be less than a match for the kinds of forces we had com, particularly with Te Technology and whatnot. In the fall i took over joint special Operations Command which have this wonderful collection as was described of americas most elite counterterrorism forces. Just extraordinary element. We started operations in which doing operations and doing very well. And berated we do as exquisitely executed, and most of them are very successful every raid. This situation keeps getting worse. We are doing everything weve been taught, doing it better than ever and the situation continues to deteriorate. Against an enemy alqaeda in iraq which on the face of it is not that good. They are not particularly welltrained. If you think about the narrative, a political narrative that they published it, its kind of absurd. Its nihilism and their behavior was aboard. But theyre Getting Better and better and so as we study the problem what we found is, and i dont think my design, i think it was by block, the intersected with the change in the world. A change in the world driven by two big factors. One, interdependence and the other was speak. We all do things get faster but were not quite sure completely what that means for all of us every day. Interdependence, things are connected in ways that had never had before they get their supply chains, thank you for connectivity for your baking, or information, everything. In just a very simple way alqaeda would put up a car bomb in baghdad, for example, it would be three vehicles, all the vehicle, they would be a car bomb vehicle driven by the lucky car bomber, and in those a 30 vehicle whose primary role was to film it. And within minutes they would upload to the internet and they would pass it to pakistan we would be produced for the professionally, pass it back in, be on the internet and suddenly people who were not there to hear it, were not there to see the carnage felt it. They felt the emotional, and bob graham. They felt it in north africa. Young people started to get a, this is what i want to be part of the look what theyre doing. The interdependence of action started to be just incredible. So entity but how does network like association but not a traditional hierarchy. We kept looking forward. We kept trying to say whos mr. Big, well take them out and solve this problem. Thats not what basis is. They are this franchise like constantly shifting resilient thing. If you try to take that on with even exquisitely good efficiencybased hierarchy, you lose. And to try to tear hierarchy better, try to say we must be decided, do this better, i started. Chris and i worked together. We did all that. Then we came to the conclusion, you cant win that game with this kind of team. So what you have to be is this network grew. Then we run into the problem is described we have these wonderful cohesive small teams of a tribal instinct. They like everybody and anybody that into them. In the book we describe the point which everyone else stocks. [laughter] because you know, even though the people gun that everybody else just by definition socks. How do you cooperate with people you dont know and trust . Suddenly, you can do them all because we had 17,000 people across 27 countries doing this. You cant know them all. We did a bunch of things to try to create virtually and through a herculean effort try to create many of the properties of a small team across a team of teams. Its not one big team. If you say team jsoc, thats absolutely impossible. 18 cant be more than about 100 people because she can no everybody. So we have two great ways we get the qualities of team by creating a team of teams, and that is at the leadership and management challenge. Whats changed . Im probably there with the minutemen. I can teachers were more im probably okay on world war ii. But youre going over and youre finding that the approach thats been taken is remarkably different. We are no longer the minutemen, they are. That when they figure out the way would like to approach a building, they can do Something Different in the next building. They will have a machine gun at the top of the stairs and they will do, and to you, night because you of the night vision goggles. They sleep in the field after dusk. Boy, thats a shifting landscape. So you cant do things the way theyve always been done and get you were drinking military to do things pretty much the way theyve always been done, tried and true. What sort of went off . Was it the number of casualties, the resistance . And made a leap into the difference between maps and whiteboards. Chris . Whats changed on the conflict inside is come and why we believe this is universal to the point were trying to make human teams, is cell phones, youtube, chat rooms. Its simple. Alqaeda is not better and is worse in many ways that a lot of other insurgent groups throughout history which is not terrorism as old as warfare. But they can see, a come as a way to react, sleep in the fields because of this. Thats other operating. They can get that the global audience in a covered chat room and realtime. Suddenly a new technique pops up all around the globe. Thats radically different. The question of how you react to that is how do you accept the fact that it is interconnected. Our old bureaucratic system, could work. So the idea that we present in the book and the term we didnt use in special operations we use now is shared consciousness. General mcchrystal and others at the top determined edge when it got a clear understanding of this, as a change in realtime. If im going to be centralized accountability counter the lowest levels. How can i empower the small teams to connect as a network and then move in realtime . I need to invite them on a cadence that moves faster than any network to rout to hear eveg im thinking, understand strategic impact, understand how this affects geopolitical situation, et cetera. You on the ground on a daily basis for us, we had every day for about 90 minutes everyone in the organization saw thousands of people around the globe are invited to a 90 minute video teleconference we talk of the book which recalled the operation intelligence. So you can sit through the 90 minute listen to all the Senior Leadership, all the way down to the tactical level as needed, understand what it changed in the last 24 hours, and from that point on you free to move in sight of his face with complete autonomy for 22 and half hours. Then we would resent and say they somewhat we talked about yesterday, heres all the things i did or i didnt ask permission. Is what ive done the last 22 hours. Get the reaction and then reset again. We stayed on that cycle for years and years and years, seven days a week, thousands of people died in. That allowed us as a Global Enterprise to make realtime small decisions faster than this network enemy. So its tried to call transparency but that was part of it. They were a few other of us not discuss but is pretty wide open. You want a connection information was being communicated in realtime so that it was useful, because it is four hours later or four days later, they have moved on. 1 as relates to transparency and the sharing of communication, but then you this added risk of you are exposing more information they more people. So is the problem . Where was the balance on that . How comfortable did you sleep after opening it up that wide . When we opened it up we opened up almost every piece of information about every piece of information. Clearly are some things you have to protect. We protected sources like spies. We protected them. We would sometimes put their intelligence. Given us, which is wouldnt give the source of that. We did not about internal personal actions. Those on appropriate for that venue. Almost Everything Else we put out there, 7500 people day or 90 minutes a day, this is people in d. C. , state department, cia, everybody in this. Sorry, you come out of your nice plush Corner Office . We had this plywood little headquarters and we had a room about almost decides as the Main Operations center, screens on the wall but everybody is in the open area. They can g to talk to anybody. The information is constantly pumping. So the idea was Everybody Knows everything all the time. Thats impossible. But if you think about it, we create these structures and draw any artificial chargeable, you do any safe houses information go will . Certain information goes out to the south to the top, make a decision, goes back down again. What you did what everybody got to see it said that suddenly the order you that from your supervisor, euna had contacts for the big picture. It made a lot of supervisors better supervisors because everybody is seeing it, it also identified people who were just not up to the task and some people arent up to the task. Give you the the opportunity because everybody marinated in the information to not have to go back if this 90 minute thing was not this rigidly mechanical brief. It had things we covered but it also had a conversation around the whole command, key leaders and i would do this thing called thinking out loud. Somebody would Say Something and i would say okay, heres what i think i heard and correct me if im wrong, they would have a chance. Heres how processing this, heres how i thinking about that, and then i say it seems to me we would probably want to do this about it. I would necessarily make the decision because i try not to make the decisions and then i would go to the person responsible and say you think about it and tell me what youre going to do. What would happen is Everybody Knows the logic could train that i am following, they could picture it if it was wrong but they didnt have to ask permission, they got that framework updated on a daily basis. I will tell you if there is a cfo in the room they do a lot of pencil and paper, 7500 people on the math on the hours, it was the most efficient thing we ever did. When we started it was 50 people and when i gave up it was at least 7500. People were fighting to get in. We recorded it every day so if you are on a different chip you could go on your computer and just watch it and you can go wherever you were if you are not an the rooms you could go on your laptop. Let me then take it from the battlefield to the board room into the corporate setting, you reference taylor, taylor, you reference henry ford, almost the Industrial Revolution and then we get to the technological revolution and there are things called limiting factors in your speech, and blanks, can you talk to us about the limiting factors and what you had done and what you are doing now in companies, and then what are some of these blinks and blanks and why should people be aware . To use the term eliminating factor, on the battlefield because the military certainly a different set up but they were things like certain highvalue actions like helicopters are in short supply you have more Ground Forces than helicopters, and so in the old world the idea was i want to a, get all the hell it copters and i dont care about the other unit and so we broke that down and said we dont doesnt matter what her battered averages were losing the series. We have to figure out a way to share these assets, that was step one and now comfortable with giving some of my assets to someone else. That still to give it us to move fast enough so the real step came when i said i need to understand this other sides view on the situation as clearly as i understand my own and that was done through these large transparent forums. I could then tight together an overarching strategy and we all had a common purpose about what were trying to accomplish a menu or incentivize and would say all for the next 24 hours you are clearly priority, this is going on in your areas much more important than what im looking at. Had i not had not had this broader optic i wouldve understood that. So why dont you take all of my stuff for now and based on now i understand what youre going after i can predict, youll probably be done in time for you to cut back half of those assets beat so i can get a little piece of what i want to accomplish in 24 hours so you multiply that by ten, or 20 Ground Forces and suddenly when you go into these large forms it was and im in an argument with this force over here and we need to argue about whos going to get the assets. Then it just came to how are we going to get through the next 24 hours and share the assets and continue pushing in that direction until you pull the rain and tell us to slow down. So when a team team gets in there it brings out bags of evidence and they said them over in the corner with posted notes or scribbled things on the bag but nobody gets him for a couple of days, you you see some blanks. You have some disconnect, they are not just processes but recognition that all im sorry i was supposed to get the bag, i wasnt actually supposed to do anything with it i was just leaving it there, some other team is going to do that. It was those disconnects, those blanks working through that added real talents and real capabilities to the entirety of the equation. It it was very clear episode after episode straight out of the book that you really did find not just efficiencies of operations but the silo mentality in the Business World, we heard about it for decades that something you faced in life or death situations so talk to us about breaking down those silos and it seems like a large large part of it is relationship base. You all push to create really relationships. Thats probably one of the correlated related in the business is this because we created these organizations for good reason if you look historically thats why we try to look all the way back to queen ann taylor, for us what it look like when youre trying to follow the thought process in action process of a network like al qaeda or isis, traditionally you have all these agencies looking at what one wants to go out and understand so the macro theory behind why they exist and one is gonna go out with realtime ground intelligence and one is going to go up and put a force against that organization and defeat on the battlefield, these are Major National level organizations that have these big blades between them. We call them blank because you have this sort of staring optic but you literally shut your eyes at these critical moments between understanding the organization, cnet realtime, doing an objective and then bringing back that information that affects that objective and that same thing happens in business. We needed to realize that young intelligence operator would traditionally sit in an office in d. C. While the forces are overseas fighting the fight, they are every bit critical as whats happening on an objective as someone who is kicking in the door to fight and out qaeda fighter. So lets integrate these people forward and having a true relationship as part of a team. When you fastforward that mentality and walk into the headquarters in 2006 and 2007 it was of a mix of operators getting ready to go on helicopters and 22yearold analyst with a nose ring and purple hair, it was just this mix and was everybody integrated in a common purpose. Thats what we see an industry to you have created this vertical that is highly effective but suddenly it matters whether your team understands the marketing plan and understand Senior Leadership thoughts on five your strategy, no one can control that in a topdown bureaucratic fashion anymore not fast enough. Let me pick up on that and lead into this next part of it, and the book there are diagrams not overloaded with technical speaker military jargon, thank you very much i try to to keep up as best i could, Everybody Knows your chart where its ceo at the top them in different departments, then the next one is command of teams and then the cops but then theres a team on on this and then team on this, seals, rangers, whoever in the or communication, they play well together. But then there then there is a team of teams, i have to tell you that chart is i heres what i want to read to you. We need every team member or every team to know everybody else we just needed someone to know someone on every team so when they thought about or had to work with the unit next door or their intelligence counterparts in dc, they envisioned a friendly face face instead of a competitive rival. I would like to hear more information from you for a shared mission and i think the leader has a very Important Role in that regard to make sure everyone is on the same page, make sure everyone knows the goal is, but then theres a relationship across teams. What you dont know, or who you dont know is of course a mystery to you. When i was a colonel most of the kids in the Kennedy School had never been around the military i remember one guy i was talking to and he said so youre in the army . And i said, i am. He said you seem kinda smart and i said thank you. He was an anti military, he had absolutely heated know if i came from his world. So if you think about the problem you face, if the problem you face is complicated, think of your car, your car is complicated. Turkey, press the button, although things move, you couldnt build it, can fix it if we had to, dont understand it but it works, dont understand it but it works the same way every time, its predictable. Because the complicated piece is designed to work a sitting way, if if your problem is complicated, you can do what we call mutually exclusive but collectively exhaustive. You take a task and bracketed to parks, productive is him so everybody does a unique thing that nobody else does, and then those things are all bolted together and it all works. If you have a complicated problem where you know what the output it is, you can make that and tweak it for efficiency as long as things dont change your good. Thinking of a sailing ship, they can nelsons victory, it was about 300 feet long, eight decks, 26 miles of rigging, 37 sales, you couldnt go from point a to point b in a Straight Line you have easily had attack and constantly adjusted. In combat, because it rolled, your fighters had to shoot the cannons at the right time so it would go into the water, 850 sailors 50 sailors doing this simultaneously all of the time. Suddenly because youre tweaking this, its not a complicated problem it starts to become a complex problem. Look. Look at the problems you face in business today, if it was the same the customers are the same, the technology was the same, you could get really efficient and that would be great. Once he figured it out, once you got efficient enough that would be great. A complex problem is different because a complex problem think of one that is simple. Think of a pool, you rack balls on a billiards table and put 15 balls in the rack and you have one more exam going to hit it. You say this is pretty mechanical im going to hit something, but think about it 16 balls would have to be perfectly round, the table would have to be impossibly flat, the room would have to be no air circulation and you would have to be perfectly precise and how you hit every time to predict where those balls would go, because just because you have 16 balls, the combination the combination and number of variables go through the roof. You cant predict what will happen, our argument in the book is where efficiency was great, it was plenty for a long time through the industrialization, is good in the military, and general motors, because you could be efficient enough to solve the problem. Now we are in a complex environment that changes so fast, efficiency, you still need of foundation of efficiency but adaptability is where you have to be. You are always. You are always facing a different requirement, your business requirement today are probably completely different from what they will be a year from now. Yet we are not wired to think that way in our organization as we put duty positions and processes then, are are not normally function or structure that way. What we argue is that what we had to do to become a team of teams, you have to become an entity that is resilient and constantly up capson one person cant do it. If you are, use this analogy if you think of yourself as a chess master and you control your chess pieces and your playing against another chess master whose plane to get 16 pieces like, but what if youre 16 enemy pieces all think for themselves and they communicate amongst themselves in real time . They have shared quest consciousness and they dont have to follow rules so if they move they move two or three times, that suddenly what we are against. Its not necessarily the enemy, is the environment environment that has created that. We need to take a step back and take a different approach, take all of our chess pieces have to think and communicate and it be empowered to act and we need to create this ecosystem and we can do that better than anyone else. Going on that you have friends on wall street and around the world that move there headquarters so they can pick up a nano Second Technology faster to get their trades and faster, you have the speed of which think should be done but you also have the technology, theres a piece in the book which i thought would be the transition from the battlefield of military into the corporate. Weve moved from the data poor but fairly predictable settings to data rich on certain once. Most organizations understood very little of this in 2004 so we kept trying to predict and plan better because that is what we learned Good Management to be. Civilian organizations are encountering the same, management, Management Practices are unable to help Companies Cope so youre not just talking about a book general, youre not just talking about work your junior team put together. You really see this as a revolution in management to keep up, to stay ahead, all of the rules need to be relooked at and beyond that some of them need to change, open Office Setting versus nonOffice Setting, communication and the speed which you keep up with communication, shared purpose and the rest. Do i have it right . Is that this big . Yes i even think its bigger than that, the revolution is happening anyway, that, the revolution is happening anyway, you just decide where youre going to be on this thing. We lived it in the military, this is not an idea we had and we researched it, we not by choice, but but by experience started in 2003 we were losing the war. Losing the war is something that was unacceptable to us and were sending bodies home, so it was important to us. We didnt change because we thought it was a good idea, or because we had a vision and needed to go there. I had no idea when i took over, i was prepared to be the chess master and leave the force i had grown up in but the situation was so much different, so complex that we started changing first to survive and then to win. Then as it started to work more and more, we did more of it and we became really deep believers in that transformation. When we got out of the service, when, when i got out in 2010 and chris joined, we studied it, we went out to civilian for firms in over many years now to see if our experience was this unique military thing that had to happen. What we found was that was not the case, we are a military manifestation of a new situation, a new environment environment in which we are all operating. We are all struggling to deal with it, our our first clients were wanting garden company. Huge market share, great people, but the things which had carried them forward were now under threat because now is the housing collapse but other things as well. Then they they found out their traditional structure of what they were selling, back to the research and development the silos were not communicating wells so they were not producing what would sell, they did not have a sense of it, they were they were not marketing the right way, because you have to sell wanting garden products a certain part of the year, thats your Christmas Season obviously when everybody in the spring is doing it. You have to be really efficient and effective, and adapted during that period because it never goes like you think its going to go. You start and the weather is different or your competition to Something Different, you have to be extraordinarily able to do that, you dont think lawn and garden is doing that but thats what its transformed to. As we were part of that with them, we learned with them and we took a versions of what we did to communicate across the organization to become this very organic and responsive thing. Now now we have been working with other companies and we found it is absolutely important. While youre over at bloomberg the other day you have so Much Technology and finance companies, lawn and garden companies, all across the board. When you look at it how reluctant are people to be this transparent, how reluctant are they to knock down the barriers and say this is our workspace, everybody gets to sit at tables together instead of in your cubicles . Its interesting it really starts at the leadership level and the willingness to admit that there is this massive shift going on is what drives the organization. Some want to fight it, they know they can pull the traditional lovers and eventually they will get ahead because display has always worked, and a others depending on the speed of the industry, technology is moving fast, finances under pressure the last few years, theres different, theres Different Levels of pressures to recognize the shift. For us, the pressure was clear and in your face every night so the evidence to change, even though we didnt know what to change into was unquestionable. So i think to the earlier point theres no way in 15 years that big organizations are run the same way they were in the 90s. Everyone has to adapt to this to some way because the world is changing around us every day, and the speed of that change is exponential. Traditional systems have come down to human gauge in the traditional bureaucratic system as theyre saying you couldnt move fast enough, you you would have to go through six steps of approvals and then six steps up backed out to you before you could move. We got that down to a few hours and was still too slow so you have to in the industry, it just just depends on the pace of whatever space youre in but ultimately everyone will have to go through this. Theres a line in here that says we know far more about everything, the world has in many ways become less predictable. Such such predictable live the has happened not in spite, but because of technology. Tell us about technology and you reference your granddaughter and how she has got a world ahead of her that is foreign to even you. I would like to hear more about the implications of technology, were aware of it, were hard fast and wired, and everyone every single day is inundated with technology. Now you lived it and seen it in the corporate world, how fast is the pace of change . How big of a deal as Technology Revolution . And what lessons did you pick up that need to be shared. Once we realized it, that was the core of everything. Theres so much more Information Available to everyone. Ill start with the military history on this and then comment on the more macrolevel. If i was a midgrade officer in world war ii, im looking for a few big datasets where the german tanks are. When you find him, you can do a lot with that. So my role so my role in the military is at that level is to find big chunks of data, feed them to the machine and someone will come up with a strategy and push that back down to those at the other level. And you can do that because the system youre fighting is doing the same thing. You can do that more efficiently, at a faster rate and youre going to eventually win. So you put different supply chains and things that can support that. When we try to take that mentality into a networkbased, interconnected environment that we all face what you all found is that i have thousands if not more pieces of new and important data every single day. So the traditional system incentivizes me to put it in reports and send it up the chain but there wasnt some supercomputer up top harnessing all the information, just humans up the chain so nobody could collect it all in out what to do fast enough. So as we put these in broad forums what you found was people who were closest to the problem became filters on the information and because i understand the strategic concept of what were going to do i can be the filter and say out of the thousand years the for that matter right now. I can constantly update what im putting into the system and if i am it takes people time to get used to this, i have a network of peers watching what i am doing and saying you offered about twice the amount of information you needed to today. Cut out on this, that was repetitive from what we talked about last week, make sure were paying attention and those sorts of things. You can see is people became comfortable everything they said was worth listening to because it tied directly to the strategic goals of the organization and what youre facing on your side of the battlefield. General as you hear that in the Technology Revolution, and i referenced your granddaughter the world heat shes going to be living up in, how big of a deal is the shift in how do people stay ahead . I think one of the things is that we are going to collect more big data and figure out what people are willing to buy and what people are willing to do is incorrect. Were going to get a lot of information, thats going to be valuable, but the reality is things change because everybody gets a lot of information now and they react to that. We tell a story in the book and we talk about a 26yearold guy in 1882 and it goes into an north african marketplace and hes frustrated with the government so he stands on a fruit box and starts criticizing the government pretty harshly. The local police know who he is but they cant collect on his cell phone or computer can say dont exist, so they cant know too much either because they cant connect to other agencies efficiently. Pretty limited, but pretty limited, but on the other hand hes talking from the top of a fruit box to people who can hear them and they do know that wordofmouth may affect some people but its going to go slowly and theyre going to have plenty of time to see and respond if this young man actually causes a problem. Then we fast forward to 2010, december 2010, now this man is a 26yearold reseller and tunisia and hes frustrated with how hes being dealt with by local administrators and instead of standing on a fruit box, he lights himself on fire two and half weeks later he dies. His cousins take the still picture, they they take some video of local protests and within 90 days the president s are down in egypt and a civil war has started in libya, the government of tunisia is gone and syria has started to descent into the tragedy it has now. The causes were there, but nobody could predict that his act, a desperate act of a 26 rope root cellar, otherwise irrelevant to us was going to be relevant to all of us and still today. Impossible to predict because it goes viral about viral and you dont know whats going to resonate. Thats essentially the point. More people get more data all the time, therefore it affects their decisionmaking more rapidly and so you have this constantly changing thing. We seem to want to say if you get more information well get our arms around this problem and we will master it. The reality is the information is going faster than the ability to get her arms around it. We need to understand that. There was a time when an educated person in the world essentially could lead read every book available on a certain body of knowledge because there just werent that many, now thats laughable. So what we need to do is respond, or admit the fact that this is a constantly constantly changing thing. Grab the data we can but not lock ourselves into a big Strategic Plan that were going to execute, because its going to be different every moment. A week and a half ago. A week and a half ago we had a giant flyover of 15 different formations, trade had no opportunity for a to be at the top floors to watch this. Im watching the lanes come down the potomac and the first thought i had was we won with that, like wow. Go faster, please fly, wow how is that staying up . As im reading through your work, the pace of change is lightning speed and were not talking about the tanks and the jets, and and the helicopters as much as were talking about people with grudges and cell phones and ieds and and remotes to set bombs off within them. Beyond that if you talk about the approach to counter that is trust, relationships and communication, it really doesnt boil down to those three but i think part of what you cover really has to do with the trust. Everyone is on the same shared mission that you have the relationship to cross the team and you are communicating with that information exchange. Do i have it right, what else would you add . We know how to do that. What we struggle with is taking a team of teams when you scale it and creating to across organizations. At the end of the day its management and leadership. How so . Expand on that. You hit about efficiency repeatedly in the book bottom management, leadership and the structure of the organization, how do they need to adapt . If you have an organization where inside each of your subordinate teams, they have a different definition of their success, they might be incentivized to that, might have a high batting average but not incentivized whether the team wind. Would you pay people at the end of you for. Other times just culture will put them in a mode of operating that is different or harder for other element to interact with. Thats what leadership is got to break that down. We created shared consciousness around that they do conference but there will we have 15 chat rooms operate all the time. As we are doing this video teleconference people are chatting across the entire command with more information, asking questions. I heard this. We will try to great this lateral arterial flow of information all the time that gives them the sense that this is what entity. Not only one entity from a shared mission but one entity from a shared capability. You can learn from other parts like that, and you get over that hesitation to do that. You share resources and so. We are going to opened up for questions and the second. Chris, i appointed you find decisions been made faster and better, or did it take longer to reach the decision because it is a information overload . You have been Encouraging Companies to be more communicative. Thats right. Stan mentioned early, the majority of the decision on a 24 hour cadence happened at the ground level. You are empowered and expected to be making good informed decisions. Thats what we tried to Push Organization as well. If you try to keep every decision actual level, youll never get to keep up with this. You have to think out, understand how the organization is thinking as a collective and now you are empowered to make the realtime decisions. The leadership of doctor, even if we didnt find the from early on, seals need to trust rangers, three star generals said we need to trust each other. Check in a few weeks and see if its going. Okay, boss. What does that mean . What they did was now we are all included in this big conversation. Okay, seals, if your ranger buddies failed or were not able to execute a target because you something or have something and you didnt give it to them, guess who is wrong. You are. Now we are all in public accountability bob, how did it go . We couldnt get enough done. Chris, what did you do . We did have a target. Youre wrong. You shouldnt have given post about. The onus falls on you because you either, you are not playing by the numerals or you dont understand the context of whose Properties Matter on any given night. So you can quickly identify the problems. Did you find this Work Overseas and then the work now with companies that is no is not a top leader, its 15th of teams bunch of those team leaders, they find they need to be changed out . Do they need to be tested to see if they have the aptitude to be the team leader in this new environment . The majority of the younger folks, maybe a few years younger than me, this is how they think anyway. They live in an interconnected world. There waiting for Senior Leadership to catch up. You want to be invited to the strategic context. Thats where it picks up speed. The comfort is 40 plus all of us to say i have to get my head around the fact i cant just let him a very comfortable silent anymore. We will open it up another weve been hearing about zappos and zappos says we will go straight across and no real management in terms of the approach. They will be everybody, 200 people. Thats not for me. I cant help but think of the ceo of zappos is going okay, thats what we need to do. Get people on board on the same team, send messages, same values. Heres how we are going to proceed i think were looking at more radical things coming down the pike whether its facebook or twitter or amazon, sony the Disruptive Technologies are out there with huber and the rest. Even in the midst of the highest level of disruption. Youve been disrupters but in responding to an approach it is what you see in this book. Lets open it up for questions. If you wait on the microphone, cspan has been kind enough to come here. They will be broadcasting this end and its tired he soon. Right here. My name is brian gibson. Im a scholar on u. S. Iraq relations. I have a question for the two of you. How do you think of wha model wl work when trying to tackle a challenge like isis with the Multinational Force where you dont necessarily trust all the people that you working with . And speaking like iran or some elements of the iraqi government. Ill take that. Isis is doing really well right now and looking why they do it well. Several factors. One, theyre very much anymore this kind of organization, holding terrain but not a hierarchical thing. They are a creation of the environment and they did it well. To use Information Technology superbly to put the message out. They are very untapped of whats happening on the ground. They embody a 21st century thing. They are only doing as well as they are because they are in the region were almost the opposite is exemplified. As you mentioned, to deal with this you have to have a team of teams. If you look at from the gulf states to iran, two tied to the government of iraq, everybody that is playing with very few exceptions, at least as a level of distrust and the level of difficulty operating with other parts. Inside the iraqi military, thats always on a daily basis. Have enough weapons, enough guys, enough everything, except that interoperability. What that does is it gives you confidence. If you lack of trust then youre going to do something, you wont let go of the side of the pool because youre just not quite sure whats out there. Youve hit on the biggest problem right now. The region has not be able to come to a collective response because they are all looking at it at a slightly different perspective and with different equities. As isis its more dangerous to people, my guess is that that will start to improve just because they have to. I dont think isis is the stronger i think isis is a phenomenon that could come and go pretty quickly but the problem is what you get, its a disarray of the political framework in the region that just makes any kind of action like that very difficult. Next question. This isnt the callin part of the show. General mcchrystal and crystal so, its an honor spending time with you this morning. I just finished captain ed of upon shelves battle leadership both commented on how much the book is taught in military. So my apologies but i was wondering how much of that obvious lessons were brought into your book as well as some of those lessons are you turning on his head . Im not aware of it. Battle leadership it was written after world war i. I apologize. Not familiar with it. I didnt go to west point. [laughter] question over here. General mcchrystal, thank thk you very much for speaking with us this one. When you were describing your changes into command structure, instead of having her junior people come to you and ask you for every single thing, taking that over, you expressed i wondered why they wouldnt do that to begin with the first thing i thought was they were putting responsibility to you. They want to make sure they didnt have to worry about making that decision. Decentralizing that is all well and good in the military but can you imagine how that works in a private circumstances . To people not want to take over the type of responsibility . It seems these are to push on to higher level people. Great point. I dont think people that work in my command didnt want a level of authority. They didnt know if they had it. There are places in bureaucracies and u. S. Government has, where people are in decision of voip because they dont want to be held responsible. Most places i see, particularly and civilian companies, people are not arguing for that. We talked about a concept called decision space and we work with clients on the. Decision base basic which were senior later this this is my decision space. These are the things i decide. Everything that is not specifically listed there goes to somebody, me. If you do it well, that ceo has very limited decision space. Great big strategic decisions, some hiring decisions, things like that. Then as you go to people who find their decisions based, and if they do it carefully, sort of like the constitution this is any power not reserved to the federal government automatically goes down, suddenly he started to people hey, im not doing it selects the it down. The biggest thing i find in organizations is particularly in the area of instant communications at all, they dont know if they should ask. Nobody has laid out for them. Just sort of in defense of ago, i think we need to do x. If the boss says yes, we can do x. You just defined as the path decision. Therell come to you every time combat. If you respond and say no, heres what i think but those are decisions i want you to make, but it takes a lot of discipline to do that, you find it pushes it down. The trail of doing decision space at each level is a really good way to discipline across an organization to have you in tennessee. Its a public thing. Some bosses will say company, they called the decision ones that are important. Okay. On a great believer in defining the. Its not completely, its not inflexible, not saying you are not talking and whatnot but its constitution people down the expectation. That was a critical part of of the speed function both in industry and what we experience in the military. But it took over of getting used to certainly at the ground level. Everybody says they want to be a part and to the actually empowered the its an uncomfortable feeling. To create true account will just invite everyone to understand the strategic context the ones that is in place and you can really decentralize. I know i went through sort of maturation on the military side of still because were all brought up in this bureaucratic mindset of defaulting, persia i can do this but ill pick up the phone and ask anyway. You do it once, twice. By the third time you have someone saying mentoring you along saying look, theres 12 of you underneath me to if everyone calls me every time with these questions which is going back to the old system. You need to get comfortable making a decision. If you dont have the information let me know. You can gain access to otherwise i expect you to move in the right direction. Angela to what you put into place overseas, and what you are Encouraging Companies to consider, how has it held up on the battlefield . There are the players other day. Management by wandering around or you have, other management techniques but to the people who followed you, gender, continued his and what expectations from the teams that this is going to continue, or new guy now new approach . And joint special Operations Command, theyre on the third command after me at a taken even further. Truth to be honest, they got the commands know what the Operations Officer so he was there when we do this. The two people in interim, the deputy and whatnot. We will not test the hypothesis entail we go to a generation that wasnt and they are when we had the requirement. In that organization. More broadly across the military and the government, the answer is not much. Theres so much muscle memory, nobody gets fired for doing something to what it was done before when it was successful. Nobody gets fired for doing potential to approach. Nobody gets fired for hiring a big name consulting firm. Instead they get fired if they hired a small one, Mcchrystal Group, who are not known because there to have a track record. So it makes organizations conservative that way and you also do what you know. What youve done before. The problem is your competitors, if all your competitors were you, that would be fun. But your competitors are not you put your competitors are people coming with no respect for hours yesterday, working from garages in some cases, your competitors in some cases are also your customers because of the way the interaction is now. What i would argue is you cant look at doing arms race with your competitor and as long as im ahead of him, its the environment the that get you. You see more organizations change. We used of the fortune 500 Companies Use to last an average of 75 years. Now its less than 15. Ceos you step expanded 10 years. You know that they dont now. There are all kinds of data that is blinking red and yet and a lot of organizations we are just not yet responded as fast as we could. One or two more questions. One of your, one over here. To overhear them. Good morning. Im data johnson and i just want to thank you both for first off thank you both for your service to our nation and to the cause of freedom around the globe your im hoping that you can contrast to things. The first being adaptability. We talked a lot about adaptability is my but if you can contrast adaptability with strong routine. Im thinking about retains a military sense, routines help both with speed and they also put predictability both within units and between units. So if you could comment on how do you build within a structure nfib where people are both adaptive and at the same time are able to leverage those strong routines and to to make things happen more quickly and get that predictability on the battlefield as well as in the corporate environment was so adaptability and routine, how do you bring those together . I can comment. And the military at the ground level, it was a mix of both. The adaptability had to come at the organizational level. 13 of a small thing is critical because you know in the middle of the night i know that this. If i go to their gear where i will find certain things. Thats what makes drill on that a little more practice or interesting episodes in here, very interesting example of that they were not in military they are not second nature. But theres a way to pack and the way it is back and whether this is the same everyone. So when the lights go out or youre at night, you have to fumble around the you know what it is anything in your pack when you land by parachute or youre in your bulk. I think thats not necessary the way its done by any stretch of imagination with the discipline and the workplace, but to the question is a bit of the muscle memory, a training, training, training. Maybe expand on that a bit. The Ranger Regiment set the standard for the masterful asset. This level at the individual soldier level. The idea being how can i create these teams of multiple individuals and have been quickly understand what they can depend on from the person on the left and the right. In the middle of the night if someone is wounded, if i approached the ranger today, i know exactly what pocket to go to to find his med kit and start helping them with a gunshot, whatever the case may be. Thats part of the heritage. Its critical you understand, depend on the routine of your team of individuals, et cetera. The adaptability peace came at the organizational level. Thats what we are not able to do was to quickly because were locked in a more bureaucratic mindset. We were not thinking when i see a radically constantly shifting problem i need to be able to adapt in real time and acquire new business, create new relationships, et cetera, become a real Distributive Networks ourselves to go to adapt to the environment as i see it changing on a nightly case. If you try to say remain in a disciplined approach always country one step behind the it was a merger of those to those critical. You have to be very efficient to be accountable. Because those things which are repeated, those things which have to do the same way, i do certain meetings, whatever, otherwise youre spending all your time just to make the machine run. And being able to move. Thats where that balance comes in before you start to get calcified into process is where your danger is spent im tempted to call on ken harvey, starting starlight back with redskins about that adaptability of the training and the muscle memory. Because he has big muscles. [laughter] but you also have the play develops, youve got to respond to fully. You do have to adapt. Its not all like to say, theyre all just sort of lined up like the red coats. Thats not how it is any longer. Question over here. Good morning. Im nancy roman, ceo of the capital area food bank. So we are the regions largest hunger organization, feeding about 540,000 people region why. Not the military, but very complex. And what you said applies very well to the nonprofit sector. Weve been working very hard on pushing accountability down so so much resonated to the question i have is been organizations, with 130 employees, but those of any size really where you dont have the layer, the military has. Processing the days of a tactical decision. What are your thoughts on getting the bottom of feedback . In order to stay comfortable with sharing your Strategic Vision and delegating, you have to be super sure that your Strategic Vision is out of touch, that it is informed by the day today. We dont all have the military capacity. I would be interested in your thoughts on that spirit i would offer a quick thought. Clearly the nonprofit space is rife with this im sure a lot of folks opposite import of all the nonprofits. We both are. Theres a lot of sort of cannibalism in that space because this only people trying to affect the very. Would nation becomes a challenge. On the battlefield it wasnt a huge staff effort that made this possible. It was building up to get to where the systems were capable of doing what we need them to do was what took time but it was large communication forms, pulling the people in on the right kids to have a conversation is retired by 24 kids, much faster than most industry did the summer take out the balance, how often do we need to talk and to the right people to end a conversation with the other was just very, very basic sort of portal so so anyone could upload their information. Does a lot of data that went on to that because of operating to that because of operating insulator that space is but a system like that applies to Something Like to talk about, just a, place where people can share their most current find his previous examples in a different space of but if you had access to the right information independent of any broader cadence and that our dependable system we can plug in of the conversation as the senior level, so entered gaza gaza can cut through the midlevel. In the nonprofit world if you more important for other intangible reasons and thats when. Another four people are not motivated by compensation. They may be paid people but thats not a driver. No, not on a Commission Basis or something. So as a consequence interconnected which are doing is part of the motivating factor. Seeing the big picture together in a nonprofit is a helping veterans or feeding people it can be pretty tiring at times because youre right up close to its ugly. Is like a private up on the battlefield. That private see things are difficult of it, doesnt see the progress and so as a consequence they can get very, very disheartened very quickly. So what we found was given a big picture pumping down which was important to do. If there doing something tired, cold, scared. If youre not constantly reinforced this is making a difference, this is a contribution, then they can undercut and, of course, you want them to constantly be telling a difficult it is so youre not doing big hand waves on a map making decisions that seem easy that are not. The opportunities i get at the board of trade are remarkable. I the chance to talk to that of h. R. For an essay not long ago that i said how is recruited what he said we dont have a problem with recruiting. Is as we get these technological wizards and we say you can work your way to some of the coolest stuff that no one else has. When you look at the advances in medicine in many respects theyre driven off of the battlefield. Thats what a big advances have happened over the centuries. When you look at the organizational models, people have not looked to the militarys organizational models. I will tell you having gone through this book, have you listened to today, understand how far ahead you are in certain respects, in many respects about what the world is facing, translates directly to way things are in the technological revolution in terms of the speed with which the markets are changing, the world is flat but dont let that whole heck of a lot smaller and we look at the opportunities to stay ahead of the game. You brought some lessons back from the battlefield that directly translate to the Business World. Before i went to the i wasnt sure how was going to go. I was like all right, lets lighten up line. Get. Button to go to the book and noticed him directly translate regardless of the size of the organization, including some did better than others are some are more set up to do than others but i will close with a comment, a quote from your book is the world requires a fundamental rewriting of the rules of the game. In order to win through have to set aside many of the lessons that mullaney of military procedure and a century of optimized deficiencies have taught us. You took some bold steps, general duty on your team and your team of teams to be up to make the changes in those important time of our lives over on the battlefield to help us win over their, to keep the world safe for our families, for our friends, for the ability to do business. Thank you so much for your service. Thank you so much for putting pen to paper for this book. Congratulations on this book. We wish you the best they we appreciate you spending some time to join with some people in conversation as they come up to you for some comments but also some autographs. I cant thank you enough for all of that and more. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] booktv this on twitter and facebook. And we want to hear from you. Tweet us, twitter. Com booktv, or post a comment on our Facebook Page, facebook. Com booktv. Booktv recently visited capitol hill to ask numbers of congress what they are reading this summer. I am currently reading a British Ministry called exit business. Im reading exit music im reading crossing the borders of time about a jewish woman who was separated from her fiance during world war ii and tells a lot about the time the nazis took over france and germany and so forth. I just finished reading ikes bluff about eisenhowers foreign policy, real good book. I recommend those angry days by lynn also which is about the lead up to world war ii here in the United States and the fight between isolationists and others, interventionists, which is sort of similar to what of whats going on today. I just not too long ago read sycamore row by john grisham. I love his books. You know, i love to read so im reading something all the time. I just finished reading man in profile which is the biography of Joseph Mitchell was a longestserving writer for the new yorker magazine. So thats a few. Except i said the wrong, when i said exit business, its exit music, a British Ministry. So anyway, thats a few. He is also reading poetry night at the ballpark end of this instrument alternative america by bill kauffman. Booktv wants to know what you are reading this summer. Tweet us or and booktv or post it on our Facebook Page facebook. Com booktv. This is booktv on cspan2, television for serious readers. Heres our primetime lineup. That all happens tonight on cspan2s booktv. Next on booktv, robert grenier, former cia station chief for pakistan and afghanistan and director of the agencys counterterrorism center. He talks about the war against the taliban. [inaudible conversations]
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